From: "Linda Muller" <linda@buchanan.org>
To: brigade@zeus.wwol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000
Subject: [BRIGADE] I Am Not Answering These Questions
Dear Brigade,
"I ask the senator from California, again: you believe, you said
"once the baby comes home." Obviously, you don't mean they
have to take the baby out of the hospital for it to be protected
by the Constitution. Once the baby is separated from the
mother, you would agree -- completely separated from the
mother -- you would agree that baby is entitled to constitutional
protection?..."
FTC-Linda
-------------
Date sent: 28 Jul 00 01:00:23 PDT
From: Jeffrey Foxmore <oneredfox@netscape.net>
To: oneredfox@netscape.net
Subject: I am not answering these questions
I witnessed this exchange take place, live, but on TV. I wish I
had been in the gallery that day. I would like to have seen
each member's facial expressions as this unfolded.
{The attachment below is this exact exchange, albeit in a
larger font, more easily readable and ready to print. I put the
full text here for folks who have reservations about or inability to
open the attachment.}
-----------------
"I Am Not Answering These Questions!" - A Senate Exchange
on Birth and Partial-Birth
[When the Senate considered the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban
Act on October 20, 1999, perhaps the most revealing part of
the debate was the exchange that is reproduced below,
between the chief sponsor of the bill, Senator Rick Santorum
(R-Pa.), and the leading opponent, Senator Barbara Boxer (D-
Ca.). This discussion appears on pages S12878-80 of the
October 20 Congressional Record. We have corrected minor
errors in transcription and punctuation based on review of a
videotape of the C-SPAN broadcast.]
Senator Santorum: I think the issue of where we draw the line
constitutionally is very important. And I’m sure the Senator
from California [Senator Boxer] agrees with me. I think the
senator from California would say that she and I, and the
senator from Illinois and the senators from Arkansas and
Kansas here, we are all protected by the Constitution with a
right to life. Would you agree with that, senator from California --
[would you] answer that question?
Senator Boxer: I support the Roe versus Wade decision.
Santorum: So you would agree any child that’s born has the
right to life, is protected under the Constitution? Once that
child is born?
Boxer: I agree with the Roe v. Wade decision. And what you
are doing goes against it and will harm the women of this
country. And I will speak to that issue when I get the floor
myself.
Santorum: But I would like to ask you a question. You agree,
once that child is born, is separated from the mother, that that
child is protected by the Constitution and cannot be killed? Do
you agree with that?
Boxer: I would make this statement: That this Constitution, as
it currently is -- some of you want to amend it to say that life
begins at conception. I think when you bring your baby home,
when your baby is born -- and there is no such thing as partial-
birth -- the baby belongs to your family and has all the rights.
But I am not willing to amend the Constitution to say that a
fetus is a person, which I know you would.
But we will get into that later. I would prefer to address --I know
my colleague is engaging me in a colloquy on his time, and I
appreciate it -- I will answer these questions.
I think what my friend is doing, by asking me these questions,
is off point. My friend wants to tell the doctors in this country
what to do. My friend from Pennsylvania says they are "rogue"
doctors. The AMA will tell you they no longer support you. The
American nurses don't support you. The obstetricians and
gynecologists don't support you. So my friend can ask me my
philosophy all day. On my own time I will talk about it.
Santorum: If I can reclaim my time: First of all, the AMA still
believes this is bad medicine. They do not support the criminal
penalties provisions in this bill, but they still believe -- I think
you know that to be the case -- that this procedure is not
medically necessary, and they stand by that statement.
I ask the senator from California, again: you believe, you said
"once the baby comes home." Obviously, you don't mean they
have to take the baby out of the hospital for it to be protected
by the Constitution. Once the baby is separated from the
mother, you would agree -- completely separated from the
mother -- you would agree that baby is entitled to constitutional
protection?
Boxer: I will tell you why I don't want to engage in this. You did
the same conversation with a colleague of mine, and I never
saw such a twisting of his remarks. [Editor’s note: See Nov.
14, 1996 NRL News, page 24, for transcript of an exchange
between Santorum and Senator Russ Feingold (D-Wi.).]
Santorum: Well, be clear, then. Let's be clear.
Boxer: I am going to be very clear when I get the floor. What
you are trying to do is take away the rights of women and their
families and their doctors to have a procedure. And now you
are trying to turn the question into, "When does life begin?" I
will talk about that on my own time.
Santorum: What I am trying to do is get an answer from the
senator from California as to where you would draw the line?
Because that really is the important part of this debate.
Boxer: I will repeat. I will repeat, since the senator has asked
me a question - I am answering the question I have been posed
by the senator. And the answer to the question is, I stand by
Roe v. Wade. I stand by it. I hope we have a chance to vote on
it. It is very clear, Roe v. Wade. That is what I stand by. My
friend doesn't.
Santorum: Are you suggesting Roe v. Wade covered the issue
of a baby in the process of being born?
Boxer: I am saying what Roe v. Wade says is, that in the early
stages of a pregnancy, a woman has the right to choose. In
the later stages, the states have the right, yes, to come in and
restrict. I support those restrictions, as long as two things
happen: They respect the life of the mother and the health of
the mother.
Santorum: I understand that.
Boxer: That is where I stand. And no matter how you try to
twist it, that is where I stand.
Santorum: I would say to the senator from California, I am not
twisting anything. I am simply asking a very straightforward
question. There is no hidden question here. The question is --
Boxer: I will answer it again.
Santorum: Once the baby is born, is completely separated
from the mother, you will support that that baby has, in fact,
the right to life and cannot be killed? You accept that; right?
Boxer: I don't believe in killing any human being. That is
absolutely correct.
Nor do you, I am sure.
Santorum: So you would accept the fact that once the baby is
separated from the mother, that baby cannot be killed?
Boxer: I support the right -- and I will repeat this, again,
because I saw you ask the same question to another senator -
Santorum: All the person has to do is give me a straight
answer, and then it will be very clear to everybody.
Boxer: And what defines "separation"? Define "separation."
You answer that question. You define it.
Santorum: Well, let's define that. Okay, let's say the baby is
completely separated. In other words, no part of the baby is
inside of the mother.
Boxer: You mean the baby has been birthed and is now in its
mother's arms? That baby is a human being.
Santorum: Well, I don’t know if it’s necessarily in its mother’s
arms. Let’s say in the obstetrician's hands.
Boxer: It takes a second, it takes a minute - I had two babies,
and within seconds of their birth --
Santorum: We’ve had six.
Boxer: Well, you didn't have any.
Santorum: My wife and I had babies together. That’s the way
we do things in our family.
Boxer: Your wife gave birth. I gave birth. I can tell you, I know
when the baby was born.
Santorum: Good! All I am asking you is, once the baby leaves
the mother's birth canal and is through the vaginal orifice and is
in the hands of the obstetrician, you would agree that you
cannot abort, kill the baby?
Boxer: I would say when the baby is born, the baby is born,
and would then have every right of every other human being
living in this country. And I don't know why this would even be
a question, to be honest with you.
Santorum: Because we are talking about a situation here
where the baby is almost born. So I ask the question of the
senator from California, if the baby was born except for the
baby's foot, if the baby's foot was inside the mother but the
rest of the baby was outside, could that baby be killed?
Boxer: The baby is born when the baby is born. That is the
answer to the question.
Santorum: I am asking for you to define for me what that is.
Boxer: I don’t think anybody but the senator from Pennsylvania
has a question with it. I have never been troubled by this
question. You give birth to a baby. The baby is there, and it is
born. That is my answer to the question.
Santorum: What we are talking about here with partial birth, as
the senator from
California knows, is a baby is in the process of being born --
Boxer: "The process of being born." This is why this
conversation makes no sense, because to me it is obvious
when a baby is born. To you it isn't obvious.
Santorum: Maybe you can make it obvious to me. So what you
are suggesting is if the baby's foot is still inside of the mother,
that baby can then still be killed.
Boxer: No, I am not suggesting that in any way!
Santorum: I am asking.
Boxer: I am absolutely not suggesting that. You asked me a
question, in essence, when the baby is born.
Santorum: I am asking you again. Can you answer that?
Boxer: I will answer the question when the baby is born. The
baby is born when the baby is outside the mother's body. The
baby is born.
Santorum: I am not going to put words in your mouth -
Boxer: I hope not.
Santorum: But, again, what you are suggesting is if the baby's
toe is inside the mother, you can, in fact, kill that baby.
Boxer: Absolutely not.
Santorum: OK. So if the baby's toe is in, you can't kill the
baby. How about if the baby's foot is in?
Boxer: You are the one who is making these statements.
Santorum: We are trying to draw a line here.
Boxer: I am not answering these questions! I am not answering
these questions.
