Speculations : The Rumor Mill : Anonymous : Ask Ann -- How to Spot the Scam Sharks in the Writing Waters

Topic 200 was started on 1998-10-18. There are 4430 messages available to read.

How do you separate the sheep from the goats when searching for Agents or Publishers? Ask SFWA's "scam watchdog" about it before making a potentially costly mistake!

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Message 4430 was left by Victoria Strauss on 2003-06-06 13:38:40. Feedback: 0/0 P.S. It should be assumed here that I'm talking about fiction--the nonfiction market is different.

Message 4429 was left by Victoria Strauss on 2003-06-06 13:36:51. Feedback: 0/0 There are a couple of issues here: a publisher buying a debut novel based on a partial ms., and an agent committing to representation of a new author based on reading a partial ms. (I'm not going to address the issue of whether or not it's common for debut novels to sell to publishers on the basis of a partial--it's not my impression that it is, but I don't have the facts at my fingertips.) A publisher buying an agented book from a new author based on a reading of a few chapters and a synopsis is in a completely different position from an agent committing to represent a new author's book on that basis. The publisher can reasonably rely on the fact that the agent (assuming, of course, that the agent is experienced, reputable, and familiar to the publisher) has thoroughly vetted the full ms.--and possibly even worked with the author to polish it--before offering it for sale. The ms., in other words, has already received a degree of industry approval. The agent considering a new author, however, has no opinion to rely on but her own. Three (or four or five) stellar chapters and a synopsis offer no certainty that the wonderful beginning doesn't squander itself in a terrible conclusion, or that the themes are successfully resolved, or that the wonderful characterization is equally wonderful all the way to the end--or even (because authors do lie) that the book is actually complete. The only thing that can provide this assurance is actually reading the book all the way through. The agent will be putting her reputation on the line, after all, when she offers the book round to publishers--if the book turns out to be a stinker, she's going to look pretty bad if anyone finds out she didn't read it before trying to sell it. In my experience, agents who offer representation to new authors based on a partial reading tend to be eager to charge a fee, or not very experienced or successful. I do know of a few successful agents who offer representation based on partials--but these are agents who cursorily send the author's partial round to six or seven publishers, and then give the author the boot a few months later when there isn't immediate interest. I wouldn't recommend them either.

Message 4428 was left by gpanettieri on 2003-06-06 12:03:14. Feedback: 0/0 Thanks for the post, Helen. It's a risk for an agent to take that chance with a new writer, just as it's a risk for the editors buying. But in a fast-paced and competitive market, there's a need for some risk-takers and the risks we take are calculated ones based on experience. Naturally, as I'd mentioned, it's a rare book that I, or anyone else, would sign on a partial. It has to shine with such exceptional quality and have such a clearly-written, detailed synopsis that one can really feel a great deal of faith.Obviously, if there's any question, it's always best to wait and see if an author has 'staying power'. However, if one reads the market annoucements, you'll notice that first books are sold on partials nearly every week, often at auction, and most often by the most respected agents in the business. In those rare cases, the book's exceptional potential is obvious to not only the agent, but the editors bidding on the book. For someone to claim that this is a substandard practice if I sold books on partials at times would be to indicate that nearly every top drawer agent in New York is substandard, and that nearly every top editor is somehow substandard for buying on partials. This issue, declaring the practice substandard professionally, is what I took issue with. I would never claim that one should sign on partials routinely, but it is common practice and accepted, and acceptable by the publishing community as a whole. I have to disagree with the comments made suggesting otherwise.

Message 4427 was left by Helen on 2003-06-06 11:30:09. Feedback: 0/0 This of course has *NO* reflection upon how an agent may choose to base his or her decision to take on work. But it just seems to me, that from a first-time author whose work has never been debuted before, what may appear to be stellar on pg. 40 of the manuscript, may (or may not) slightly differ by the time pg. 140 is read. Therefore, IMO, I'll agree with Victoria, et al, that putting it under contract before having the chance to address this issue, does seem a little premature. However, kudos to all those who have been successful, and have even been lucky enough to go to auction, through this method. Helen

Message 4426 was left by gpanettieri on 2003-06-06 06:48:51. Feedback: 0/0 Hi. I just heard about your folks and thought I would introduce myself. I'm Gina Panettieri,and I head up Talcott Notch Literary Services. I noticed that Victoria had mentioned aboue me signing authors based on partials on rare moments, and that being a substandard practice for an established agent. It's true I've signed a few rare people based on partials, but I've also sold a lot of books, even first novels, based on partials, so something's got to be working for me there. My very first sale as an agent, The Valiant Heart, by Anita Gordon, was a debut novel sold at auction on a partial of less than 40 pages. Later that year, Anticipation by Paris Hall was also a debut novel sold at auction, this time on 26 pages. It established a pattern that shows it does happen, but only with very special books of exceptional quality. So, I did want to mention that this type of thing does happen, and it isn't unusual for an established agent to sign, and sell a book, even first novels, based on partials. Most of the agents lauded on this site do it frequently. Hope that clears up that issue! Thanks.

Message 4425 was left by Carol Orosco on 2003-06-01 23:24:07. Feedback: 0/0 Thanks for the insight on R&R; Endeavors/wp.com, Victoria. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, they publish. :) (resets warning bell)

Message 4424 was left by Victoria Strauss on 2003-06-01 20:04:29. Feedback: 0/0 Re: writerpublishing.com...despite the fancy website, it looks pretty amateurish to me. The text is badly written, and ANYTIME you see "we want new writers" coupled with doomy stuff about how rotten things are in publishing these days, it should ring a warning bell. Also, as a general rule, I'd advise not submitting to an Internet-based publisher until it has actually been publishing books for a year or more. The people who run publishers like this, even where they're well-intentioned, often have no real publishing or even business experience, and frequently bite off more than they can chew; they are prone to vanishing suddenly, leaving writers high and dry. A year of putting out books not only proves they can take books all the way through the production process, it makes it possible for you to evaluate the books' physical quality, as well as the publisher's success in marketing and distribution. Re: pulpbits.com...it looks like little more than a utility to convert your text to e-book format, which then will be offered only on the company's website (I should think that the fact that they don't provide ISBN numbers would limit your ability to sell in online venues like Amazon.com). They say you don't have to pay a fee, but they do withhold your royalties until a minimum sum is paid. Sounds like a fee to me. IMO, this isn't really a publishing operation at all. Also, they mis-spell "aficionado". 'Nuff said.

Message 4423 was left by Christine Hamm on 2003-05-31 11:40:22. Feedback: 0/0 Hi, I just joined and I love this place. I'm going to recommend it to all my writer friends! Anyway, my question is: www.pulpbits.com. They solicited a manuscript from me, but only wanted to see 2 pages before accepting it. Any ideas about whether or not this place is legitimate?

Message 4422 was left by James Macdonald on 2003-05-29 19:28:22. Feedback: 0/0 Yet more on writerpublishing.com: See this press release from them. http://www.internetnewsbureau.com/archives/2003/apr03/writers.ht ml "WriterPublishing.com guarantees that every work submitted shall be read and considered for publishing. Writers can enjoy the simplicity of electronic submission. Visit this visually exciting, user- friendly website for details on submission requirements and types of work that they are seeking to publish. You will not be disappointed!"

Message 4421 was left by Carol Orosco on 2003-05-29 13:48:15. Feedback: 0/0 James, thanks for all the info on writerpublishing! It still seems like an odd setup. Ah well, someone less cynical can have my spot in their sub pile. :-)

Message 4420 was left by James Macdonald on 2003-05-28 16:53:49. Feedback: 0/0 On literary consultants: If you approach them, that's one thing. That's okay. If they approach you, that's something else. Other resources: The Self-Publishing Manual by Dan Poynter, and Designing with Type by James Craig.

Message 4419 was left by James Macdonald on 2003-05-28 16:46:08. Feedback: 0/0 Further from writerpublishing.com: No advances for previously unpublished writers.

Message 4418 was left by Patty on 2003-05-28 10:39:09. Feedback: 0/0 Thanks, Helen. --P.

Message 4417 was left by Helen on 2003-05-28 07:23:02. Feedback: 0/0 Patty S: As you mentioned, with all the how-to books available in addition to writing workshops, etc., I *personally* would not see a need for the services of a literary consultant, who as far as I know would charge a fee for the same results that can be achieved through these methods. And of course, let's not forget the wealth of information that can be obtained from sites such as the RM, et al. Helen

Message 4416 was left by James Macdonald on 2003-05-27 23:57:12. Feedback: 0/0 Re writerpublishing.com: I've heard back. They buy "full book publishing rights." They pay "industry standard." They don't have any titles yet. The gent who signed the letter is Ray Fox of R&R; Endeavors Inc.

Message 4415 was left by Carol Orosco on 2003-05-27 12:37:13. Feedback: 0/0 James, I loved the article. I cringed when they suggested editing services. How about cross-posting it to the Self Published Authors topic? Re: writerpublishing.com. Even with a cable modem it took forever to load the intro. After sitting through that, I found the lack of content disturbing. ;)

Message 4414 was left by Patty S. on 2003-05-27 12:36:24. Feedback: 0/0 I've been approached by someone calling herself a "literary consultant." Can anyone offer any info as to whether or not such a person's services would be necessary -- with all the how-to books available on how to prepare your work for presentation, as well as how the publishing industry works? Thanks. --P.

Message 4413 was left by Scott Nicholson on 2003-05-27 12:04:40. Feedback: 0/0 Re: AEI Steve Alten used these guys and the edit service. Whether you consider him a "success story" or not is your decision, but Mr. Alten is quite up-front about his whole road to publication, including the editor-for-hire role. www.stevealten.com

Message 4412 was left by DaveK on 2003-05-27 10:46:37. Feedback: 0/0 Jim, it's not all that silly. If anything, it's safer for many unpublished writers than attempting to negotiate past the numerous scams in agenting, editing, and publishing. At least, those writers will have their manuscripts published for a modest price, provided they stick to the basics, while they discover the realities that most of them are not the next King, Clancy, or Rice and their books are not NYT bestseller bound.

Message 4411 was left by James Macdonald on 2003-05-27 07:25:47. Feedback: 0/0 Re writerpublishing.com: Other than that they require Flash 5.0, a Pentium III, and 1024 by 768 screen size, there's nothing much by way of info at their site. No indication of what they pay, what rights they want, or what (if anything) they've published. I've written to them to ask. -- Jim (P.S. Did everyone see the Very Silly Article in PC magazine at http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1045904,00.asp ?)

Message 4410 was left by Tracina on 2003-05-23 10:17:41. Feedback: 0/0 Abby, thanks for that clarification.

Message 4409 was left by Carol Orosco on 2003-05-22 23:41:21. Feedback: 0/0 Anyone hear anything yet about R&R; Endeavors, Inc. aka writerpublishing.com? Been running full-page ads in Dragon(r)as "a publishing house with one idea in mind...Publishing New Authors". Website lacks contact info other than email, there's no mention of compensation, nor indication of how they publish. In a quick search I found InternetNewsBureau had a blurb in April introducing them as an e-publisher. Among many other things, it stikes me as odd that R&R; wouldn't indicate that on their website...

Message 4408 was left by Dave on 2003-05-22 12:12:49. Feedback: 0/0 Can anyone offer insight into Cambridge Literary Associates? - Run by a father and son team -Ralph and Michael Valentino

Message 4407 was left by Chas "fiction writer" on 2003-05-20 18:07:17. Feedback: 0/0 I sent my novel MSS to Angel Rinaldi in Beverly Hills about 2 months ago. I found her name in Writers Digest as interested in recieving fiction. I searched around and found that the Who Moved My Cheese Book was represented by her, so she must be successful if she's still in business. I can't find any fiction sales and not much other information on her. Anybody have any input? All the other agents I sent the MSS to have replied.

Message 4406 was left by Abby on 2003-05-20 17:22:09. Feedback: 0/0 Tracina, I don't know much about AEI or their business dealings, however, I believe they represent screenplays as well manuscripts and registration of screenplays is standard business practice.

Message 4405 was left by Tracina on 2003-05-20 17:00:02. Feedback: 0/0 Tony, search AEI Online's website and you'll see they're affiliated with Writer's Lifeline, a for-fee "editing" service. Note that Writer's Lifeline's website states, among other things, "Although we have an automatic fiduciary relationship with our clients, for added security we rcommend that you register your material with the Writers Guild of America." Smell something funny?

Message 4404 was left by Tony on 2003-05-20 16:15:58. Feedback: 0/0 Anyone had any professional dealings with AEI Online?

Message 4403 was left by Syd on 2003-05-20 15:52:57. Feedback: 0/0 ARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I'm a new writer and I'm losing my mind. Is that an oxymoron? Or rather, am I a moron? I've bought 35-thousand dollars worth of how-to books. Yes, I've visited those helpful websites. Now, I just want to write; direct mail, press releases, articles, chain letters, fan mail. WHATEVER! I've even thought of talking to agents. Now, I check out the warnings websites and I'm not sure if I should put the chicken in the oven, or my head. Email me if you have any suggestions. Please refrain from telling me 3 hours 350 degrees. I will respond to any advice once I return from having my paxil refilled. Thanks, Syd.

Message 4402 was left by Syd on 2003-05-20 15:52:04. Feedback: 0/0 ARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I'm a new writer and I'm losing my mind. Is that an oxymoron? Or rather, am I a moron? I've bought 35-thousand dollars worth of how-to books. Yes, I've visited those helpful websites. Now, I just want to write; direct mail, press releases, articles, chain letters, fan mail. WHATEVER! I've even thought of talking to agents. Now, I check out the warnings websites and I'm not sure if I should put the chicken in the oven, or my head. Email me if you have any suggestions. Please refrain from telling me 3 hours 350 degrees. I will respond to any advice once I return from having my paxil refilled. Thanks, Syd.

Message 4401 was left by Mary on 2003-05-14 19:29:43. Feedback: 0/0 Was in a long thread about review copies in a SFWA newsgroup; the writers (many of whom also reviewed) agreed that donating the copy somewhere was probably the best route to getting it out of the home.

Message 4400 was left by John Savage on 2003-05-14 19:26:00. Feedback: 0/0 Gack. Writing under the influence of children. That last sentence should read: I believe that a legitimate, competent agency that has been accepting and pitching manuscripts for more than two years should certainly have a verifiable track record of multiple sales to commercial publishers.

Message 4399 was left by John Savage on 2003-05-14 19:24:19. Feedback: 0/0 To my knowledge, Sydra does not have a verifiable track record of multiple sales to commercial publishers. Given the amount of time that the agency has been pitching mss to publishers, I believe that an agency open for more than two years should, if it is both competent and legitimate.

Message 4398 was left by Gerry Kelly on 2003-05-14 17:19:42. Feedback: 0/0 Sydra?? is it a big confidence trick or do authors get published?

Message 4397 was left by Victoria Strauss on 2003-05-13 20:26:29. Feedback: 0/0 I agree that it's not really ethical for reviewers to sell books. Those books I receive for review that I don't keep, I donate (much to the irritation of my husband, who sees potential revenue lost).

Message 4396 was left by Scott Nicholson on 2003-05-13 09:46:42. Feedback: 0/0 The thread slipped a bit, but there is nothing as depressing and ire-raising as seeing a reviewer selling your book on Amazon as an "unread review copy" and undercutting the retail price by 50 percent. I don't cry over the lost royalty on the review copy, since no reviewer has any obligation to do anything (and I write a regular book column myself in my "day job.'") One review is worth more than probably 20 or 30 lost royalties, depending on the venue. But I do think when a reviewer publicly sells the book like this, you are costing the author a royalty from the person who bought the review copy at half price. Sure, there's the argument that you don't make royalties on regular used copies readers sell on e-bay, but when a reviewer claims to be a peer, doesn't crack the book, and sets up a bookselling business, well, that's skating one side of fraud in my opinion. Compared to agent/publishing scams, this is definitely small potatoes, but it will happen more often since B&N; is joining the used-book enterprise. (For the record, again, I don't mind the used book sales in principle, because most of my own purchases are of used books-- garage sales, etc. I just don't think reviewers should troll for inventory as a business.)

Message 4395 was left by Helen on 2003-05-09 16:11:21. Feedback: 0/0 Dave: Interesting... However, I really don't know of any "additional" promotional tools for approaching publishers that are actually necessary, for any agent who has already established the right publishing contacts within the industry --prior to hanging out their shingle as an agent. I've heard of an agent or two being impressed by the fact that a writer might be a member of a writer's group or organization, which may or may not demonstrate for them the writer's degree of seriousness about his or her craft. But never actually recommending that they join a specific group -- or *any* group for that matter. IMO, this of course, should be left solely up to the writer. Helen

Message 4394 was left by Nancy Caroline Beck on 2003-05-09 14:16:07. Feedback: 0/0 Re: #4391 Dave, Sounds fishy to me. And suppose the writer doesn't take them up on it? Do they then drop the writer, telling him/her they really weren't interested after all? Maybe I'm being cynical, but IMHO it sounds suspicious (like those agencies that steer writers toward certain "editing" places that those agencies have an overriding interest in).

Message 4393 was left by DaveK on 2003-05-09 10:42:35. Feedback: 0/0 Utah.

Message 4392 was left by John Savage on 2003-05-09 10:33:32. Feedback: 0/0 Dave, this wouldn't happen to be a Colorado-based agency, would it?

Message 4391 was left by DaveK on 2003-05-09 09:53:24. Feedback: 0/0 Lately, I've been concerned about one agency that urges writers to join an organization that charges a membership fee. Their explanation to one writer was that doing so would furnish the agency with additional promotional tools and opportunities and make it easier for them to approach publishers with the writer's manuscript. Any opinions, folks?

Message 4390 was left by Elizabeth on 2003-05-09 09:01:35. Feedback: 0/0 Does anyone know anything about Deborah Carter at Mysterious Content Literary Agency? (New York, NY) Thanks!