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Speculations : The Rumor Mill : Jed Hartman : Jed Hartman

Topic 852 was started on 2002-03-17. There are 183 messages available to read.

Talk about Jed Hartman here.

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Message 183 was left by TKF on 2003-05-15 18:55:09. Feedback: 0/0 Jamie, I know what you mean!

Message 182 was left by Jamie Rosen on 2003-05-15 18:49:06. Feedback: 0/0 Ditto. I don't think I've ever sent anything uncomfy to SH, but if I have, I'd love to see it discussed in a public forum. I'm egotistical that way. :)

Message 181 was left by Greg Beatty on 2003-05-15 18:00:18. Feedback: 0/0 Jed, I know it's a stretch given the number of submissions you get, but I'm finding this discussion interesting. If either of the stories you mention were mine, you have my permission to discuss it here. A long shot, I know, especially since you didn't even say if you accepted the stories or no, but hey. Greg

Message 180 was left by Tempest on 2003-05-15 17:50:56. Feedback: 0/0 Yeah, I can see where there are stories that make you uncomfortable and those that make you Uncomfortable. We had one story, I think it was in the August 02 issue of Peridot, that made me really, really uncomfortable. The title escapes me, but it was about a guy who dies in a car accident that could have killed his child, too, but didn't. So he gets sent to this very specific kind of hell which allowed him to see his son under specific circumstances, but only for a short time. and in the end his son (who is only 4, IIRC) says he's not staying to talk to him any more because he has to go be with his mommy, who is still alive. basically the toddler equivalent of "I have to live for the now." I have obviously not done justice to this story in my explanation, but I can tell you both the senior editor and I were very uncomfortable when reading the story. It pushed just the right buttons in us, (especially him, he's a father) but I argued for it because I felt that it was a great story because it pushed those buttons so well. Only amazing writing could really get across the power of that premise. Only a good writer could make us feel so very uncomfy. And I felt we had to publish it for that reason. And there are, of course, some trigger things with me that cause me to reject a story right off. Things that make me uncomfy usually because the author doesn't handle them very well. We seem to get an inordinate amount of stories that start off with someone being brutally raped and/or killed for no real reason except raping and death are "horrific" and therefore must be "horror." That's an almost automatic rejection with me right there. the author has to do something REALLY spectacular to get me past that squick.

Message 179 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-05-14 19:04:37. Feedback: 0/0 Lori 177: I didn't know the name Neil LaBute, so I went and looked it up. I heard so many bad things about In the Company of Men that I avoided seeing it; but yeah, from what I've heard about it, it sounds a lot like the kind of "relentlessly unpleasant" I was talking about in 173, the sort of thing that makes me want to wash my brain afterward to get the slime off. Possession sounded potentially interesting, though. (I like the little Byatt I've read.)

Message 178 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-05-14 18:57:17. Feedback: 0/0 Jae 174: Yeah, just call it "Love Letter to a Dingbat." re s1ngularity: I had the impression that they're particularly interested in hard-hitting stuff that -- well, their slogan is "S1ngularity is the literary equivalent of a heroin spike in the eye," so I was more or less riffing on that. But now that I look at their guidelines, they look a little less extreme than I'd thought -- they seem to be aiming for literary and unusual, but not necessarily gonzo over-the-top. eBear 176: I guess I'd say there are a variety of different kinds of stories on "issues that I really would rather not think about." There are certainly stories that explore Difficult Issues in ways that I like; I'd probably label those "disturbing, but in a good way." Or sometimes "creepy, but in a good way." (I get a lot of mileage out of that "in a good way" phrase these days.) "Omelas" and Connie Willis's "All My Darling Daughters" are, as you noted, excellent examples: very disturbing, perhaps even very distressing to read, but powerful and vivid and intense and well-written and fearlessly staring Difficult Issues in the eye. I like to think I'd be happy to publish stories like that. But there are others where I find some major aspect too uncomfortable even though the story is well-presented and internally consistent; stuff where (for example) I'm squicked even though I feel like I shouldn't be. Some editors have trigger issues -- won't consider child-molester stories, won't consider cannibalism stories, whatever. I have very few of those, and the ones I have don't seem to be subject to easy description, but I do seem to have them. (One difficulty I'm having is that there were two stories submitted to us, by two different authors, that came to mind as soon as the subject of "uncomfortable" stories came up, but I shouldn't talk about specific submissions in a public forum, and I'm not even sure I could articulate my reactions if I did. Unfortunately, because those two are prominent in my thoughts, I'm having a hard time coming up with other examples from which I might be able to generalize.)

Message 177 was left by Lori on 2003-05-13 14:36:25. Feedback: 0/0 Like Neil LaBute movies, Jed?

Message 176 was left by Elizabeth Bear on 2003-05-13 13:37:54. Feedback: 0/0 New Dangerous Visionses (Visionii?)-- --I don't think the world needs one. Jed, I understand now. When I say I'm looking for stories that make me uncomfortable, I mean stories that look squarely (and non-simplistically) at issues that I really would rather not think about. We have a story up now on what motivates terrorism: Leah and I talked about it seriously before we accepted it, given the current political climate--but it wasn't simplistic, and it wasn't moralistic. It was just strong, and a little controversial, and I thought it worked really well. On the other hand, we don't take horror. But then, I don't find goriness particularly transgressive in the post-Texas-Chainsaw-Massacre world. Or the post Vietnam war world. Or the post Zapruder tape world. Which is why, I guess, I don't see us needing a new Dangerous Visions. On the other hand, if somebody sent me a story like "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" or "The Shark," would I publish it? Would I buy "The Silken-Swift" or "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" or the Connie Willis story about the sex ferrets, the title of which eludes meat the moment? (To name a few stories that made me very uncomfortable, for various reason--) Not only yes, but Hell, yes. I think there's a place for stories like that. Still, always.

Message 175 was left by Jamie Rosen on 2003-05-13 12:37:24. Feedback: 0/0 Jed, looking at the wide variety of "new Dangerous Visions"es out there (Redshift, Semiotext(e) SF, and so on), I think not doing one may almost make SH stand out.

Message 174 was left by Jae on 2003-05-13 12:35:59. Feedback: 0/0 So if I wrote a concise love letter to you in say, Zapf Dingbats, would that work? ;-D Seriously, I'm interested by the last line of your post. What exactly do you mean by that?

Message 173 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-05-13 12:17:49. Feedback: 0/0 Yeah, Tempest got it. The real problem with those is that I don't read Wingdings real well. And they make me jealous 'cause they're not love letters to me. Also, the rambling gets to me -- note to authors: if you're going to write love letters to an editor, do it concisely. ("Editors do it concisely"? ...Never mind.) Ahem. There are a lot of things in stories that make me uncomfortable but that are also not good writing, such as simplistic and heavy-handed approaches to political issues (from any side). But the difficult stories are the ones that are well-written but still make me too uncomfortable. The common factor there is hard to get a handle on, but I think in my head it revolves around the word "unpleasant." Or the phrase "relentlessly unpleasant." Sometimes a story just goes a little too far. ...I don't think I'm going to be able to be much clearer than that -- I wrote most of the above on Friday and then set it aside to try to address the question more clearly but it's not working. All I can say is it's a personal gut reaction, and it doesn't happen very often. (And because it's a personal reaction, I usually explain the situation to my co-editors and give them more of a chance than usual to look at the story in question before I reject it, in case they think it's brilliant.) Sorry if I've said this before: very early on when we were planning the magazine, someone said we should do a Dangerous Visions for the new millennium. It sounded great until we stopped and thought about it, and realized that if a story was so transgressive as to constitute a modern Dangerous Vision, chances were we'd be too uncomfortable with it to publish it. So I guess I'm a literary conservative after all, at least to some degree. Hmm, I should probably also recommend that authors of really transgressive submissions try s1ngularity; they're all about that.

Message 172 was left by Jamie Rosen on 2003-05-09 23:59:25. Feedback: 0/0 I thought the love letter was the query...

Message 171 was left by Celia Marsh on 2003-05-09 19:22:20. Feedback: 0/0 Silly tempest! You're supposed to query love letters first.

Message 170 was left by Tempest on 2003-05-09 02:34:21. Feedback: 0/0 I bet I know! When at about page 5 the story suddenly stops and is replaced by a rambling love letter for Susan that goes on for 20 pages. In Wingdings.

Message 169 was left by Elizabeth Bear on 2003-05-08 16:31:02. Feedback: 0/0 So, Jed, just out of curiousity-- --what sort of thing is it in a story that makes you uncomfortable publishing it?

Message 168 was left by chance on 2003-04-07 19:41:02. Feedback: 0/0 but he's crytic in a good way ...

Message 167 was left by tempest on 2003-04-07 17:32:16. Feedback: 0/0 jed is always being cryptic. silly man.

Message 166 was left by Ruth Nestvold on 2003-04-06 17:34:33. Feedback: 0/0 So I just don't know where to look. :-) Thanks, chance!

Message 165 was left by chance on 2003-04-06 10:43:36. Feedback: 0/0 Ruth, you need to read Jed's journal. Also, Susan had a few less cryptic words about us. cheers, chance

Message 164 was left by Ruth Nestvold on 2003-04-06 08:31:16. Feedback: 0/0 Hm. Doesn't look like Jed's noticed anything yet ... and it's already been almost a week ... Anyone want to take any bets on when he figures out what we did to him? Ruth

Message 163 was left by Kat Allen on 2003-04-01 16:47:41. Feedback: 0/0 ::Hal the hamster runs on stage:: ::holds up idiot card:: SILLY IN A GOOD WAY ::runs offstage::

Message 162 was left by tempest on 2003-04-01 13:58:03. Feedback: 0/0 ::clears throat:: Hoooooooooooooooooorns! thank you and good night.

Message 161 was left by Jae Brim on 2003-03-18 09:23:48. Feedback: 0/0 Me too! Though I'm sure Tempest could kick my butt in a second. re #158 A Virgin Unicorn would taste yummy.

Message 160 was left by Tempest on 2003-03-18 06:40:13. Feedback: 0/0 oooo fondue wrstling! I'm totally up for that. What do you want for your birthday, Jed?

Message 159 was left by Beth on 2003-03-17 12:02:08. Feedback: 0/0 Just in case folks don't read Jed's blog -- eleven more days until his birthday. Shall we have a huge celebration here? Some fondue wrestling? Rows of topless dancing unicorns?

Message 158 was left by Elizabeth Bear on 2003-03-17 11:18:27. Feedback: 0/0 Zombie Unicorn: Three kinds of rum, pineapple juice, and a twist of orange with a sprinkle of alicorn Virgin Unicorn: Substitute marascino cherries for orange, above. (I mean, really, Jed. That was a slowball pitch if ever I saw one.)

Message 157 was left by stella on 2003-03-16 23:04:22. Feedback: 0/0 Hey, Jed. In reading your blog, I saw your question about accelerated growth: as far as I know, such a thing isn't really possible. Then again, you may want to consult someone with a higher degree in that particular field.

Message 156 was left by Beth on 2003-03-14 17:41:02. Feedback: 0/0 Oh the silly French fries business. And here I spent most of my day on bretagneworld.org and bretons.org. Demat, mes kamarads! Question -- if we are to have such oddities as freedom fries, does it follow that we have free-range unicorns? Or have I spent too much time on the internet today?

Message 155 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-03-14 15:04:43. Feedback: 0/0 Yeah, I was tickled by one of the news articles about the ridiculous "freedom fries" business; somewhere around paragraph 12 of the article, it mentioned in an aside that the French government had declined to comment, though the French embassy did note that French fries came from Belgium. Meanwhile, I think it was Jon Carroll (world's greatest columnist) who mentioned the importance of "French letters" (to tie in with Beth's comments about the Trojans). Freedom letters, anyone? It's almost like a feminine hygiene product.... Also, one hopes that New Orleans will rename a famous part of town the "Freedom Quarter." Has anyone yet noted that Zombie Unicorn sounds like the name of a drink? I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to explain the difference between a Virgin Zombie (like a reanimated Shirley Temple) and a Zombie Unicorn.

Message 154 was left by Elizabeth Bear on 2003-03-14 14:21:05. Feedback: 0/0 Re: Freedom Anything Sorry, but anything called a "freedom anything" sounds like a feminine hygeine product to me. Somewhere in France, there are a lot of French people laughing over the fact that the Belgians invented lost bread, anyway. And now I'm wondering what lost bread has to do with the Lost Boys. And... nevermind. Hey, anybody using that Zombie Unicorn in the corner? Looks like it would make a good beanbag chair.

Message 153 was left by Jae on 2003-03-14 14:19:38. Feedback: 0/0 The CamelotVSD link works. Very funny. Go ahead and spread the freedom kiss around. Jesse will be thrilled if he starts a national trend. ;-)

Message 152 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-03-13 18:10:42. Feedback: 0/0 Mary Anne's site is almost entirely plain-vanilla HTML, with text and images -- no Java, almost no JavaScript, no fancy coding and very little fancy layout. So I'd be surprised if the firewall's balking at anything code-related. Her journal does use PHP, but the pages returned to the browser should be ordinary HTML.... But maybe the firewall doesn't like pages whose names end with ".php"? Anyway, as of this morning, the Camelot VSD project has a new URL all its own: http://www.camelotvsd.com/. See if that works better. Btw, I like the "freedom kiss" line. Will Jesse mind if we spread the meme?

Message 151 was left by Jae on 2003-03-13 13:41:24. Feedback: 0/0 It's a proxy server at work, and it often blocks sites because it has some sort of active Java or other coding it doesn't like. I'll have to try from home. I'm a King Arthur geek, so this is too much fun. Lori - that sounds like an interesting idea...go for it!

Message 150 was left by Lori on 2003-03-12 15:48:29. Feedback: 0/0 So now I have to write a story with klickstones and freedom kisses in it. Wish me luck.

Message 149 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-03-12 15:25:31. Feedback: 0/0 Yep, feel free to use klickstones. Klickstones for everyone! Just don't confuse 'em with Beth's bonbons. (Crunchy!) Don't know why firewall would be blocking Mary Anne's site, unless your firewall is using some sort of pr0n/adult-material filter; she does have smut on her site. What sort of firewall is it? (Work, ISP, something else?) Can you ask the sysadmin?

Message 148 was left by Jae on 2003-03-12 10:56:02. Feedback: 0/0 My firewall is blocking Mary Anne's site for some reason. Any idea why?

Message 147 was left by Lori on 2003-03-11 15:45:53. Feedback: 0/0 Klickstones. That's great. Mind if I use it? law

Message 146 was left by Jed Hartman on 2003-03-11 15:32:07. Feedback: 0/0 Mary Anne has taken on coordination of the Camelot VSD project. See her journal (and subsequent entries) to follow along as they come in, or go directly to the Camelot VSD page to see all the characters. Drop Mary Anne a note if you want to be involved -- Guinevere appears to still be available, Jae! There's a Writing Milestones topic, but no Editing Milestones topic, so I'll just note that I consider being featured in a VSD is an Editing Milestone. :) That and having a zombie unicorn named after you. I'll take my milestones where I can get 'em. (In the future, we will all use kilometerstones instead, or klickstones for short.)

Message 145 was left by Tempest on 2003-03-09 18:35:03. Feedback: 0/0 you and your clickable links

Message 144 was left by chance on 2003-03-09 13:20:56. Feedback: 0/0 sheesh! you forgot to mention jed is in the VSD. Here's a clickable link.

Message 143 was left by Tempest on 2003-03-09 13:17:21. Feedback: 0/0 Do I know anything about Camelot? No, indeed I do not. ask for something simpler! sheesh. in the meantime, Ken has posted the Very Secret Diaries of the OWW on his blog. http://www.livejournal.com/users/kendwoods so now you can giggle. My own OWW VSD is coming.