An Interview with Stephen Harper
LEADER
OF THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY OF CANADA
Evan
Solomon: Parliament opens on Monday, and in a sense
you're the most powerful Opposition Leader in a generation
and people want to know how you're going to use your power.
So the fundamental question is: under what circumstances would
you call a vote of non-confidence?
Stephen
Harper: First of all, I can't forget my first responsibility
- which is to be the Leader of the Opposition and that's to
provide an alternative government. We've always said we'll
support the government when they do things that we can accept,
which you know the health accord.. I supported the health
accord, I called for the government to end the pay increase,
they're going to do that, I'll support that, but in general
my obligation is to provide an Opposition. It's the government's
obligation to look really to the third parties to get the
support to govern.
Solomon:
But providing an Opposition in this case is very
different from what Canadians have understood because your
opposition could bring the government down. Are there trigger
points that would bring the government down?
Harper:
Well there are lots of things that could bring the government
down, but my opposition can not bring the government down.
The government can only be brought down because it alienates
several parties in the House. And the first obligation in
this Parliament, if the government wants to govern, it has
to come to Parliament and it has to show that it can get the
support of the majority of members, through the Throne Speech,
through legislation, and through budget and supply, and the
government to this point has made no effort to do that, but
that's its first obligation.
Solomon:
But you are a key player at that, let's not make any mistake
- courting Stephen Harper is very important if it wants to
stay in power, no?
Harper:
We'll support the government on issues if it's essential
to the country but our primary responsibility is not to prop
up the government, our responsibility is to provide an opposition
and an alternative government for Parliament and for Canadians.
What the government has to do, if it wants to govern for any
length of time, is it must appeal primarily to the third parties
in the House of Commons to get them to support it.
Solomon:
Alright, Tuesday is the Speech from the Throne. You've gone
on record saying you will oppose it, or at least make amendments
to it. Now tradition is that the Leader of the Opposition
often does that.
Harper:
Always...
Solomon:
Right.
Harper:
We can't find an instance of the Leader of the Opposition
either almost always moving an amendment, but in any case
opposing the Speech from the Throne, with or without an amendment.
Solomon:
But it's always been a formality because of a majority...
Harper:
Same thing's true in minority parliaments. The Leader of the
Opposition's constitutional obligation - the obligation to
Parliament - it's the reason we did the merger! - is to make
sure Canadians have an alternative for government.
Solomon:
But when does an amendment, if you pass an amendment, when
does it function as a de facto confidence vote?
Harper:
Well that's a matter of some debate - but I think the short
answer is when the government won't accept it. And what I've
been trying to do in the last.. over the summertime, is talk
to the other parties and think about what would be agreeable
to a lot of people. I don't think - we're just not going to
go in and say ‘take our amendment or leave it,’
because we know such a thing would be rejected anyway.
Solomon:
So what amendments do you have?
Harper:
We're doing what governments should do, which is examine the
Throne Speech - if I were Prime Minister, what I would have
done is I would have talked to all three other parties extensively
to find out what would pass in the Throne Speech, and what
might not pass, and what they would like to see. The government
has not done such an exercise, at least not to my knowledge.
Solomon:
So do you know what's in the Throne…
Harper:
I don't know what's in the Throne Speech. I only know in the
vaguest terms - we were told on, a couple of days ago after
the Throne Speech had been printed, we were told generally
what was in it. The general description was that it was the
Liberal Party platform from the election.
Solomon:
So what amendments... are you proposing?
Harper:
Well, I'll look at the specifics. You can be sure whatever
amendments we propose will be consistent with what we believe
and are not in the Throne Speech.
Solomon:
But I'm just trying because this is important a detail - are
some amendments deal breakers? In other words, if you propose
an amendment and the Liberals reject it - does that mean we
could have a confidence vote on the Throne Speech?
Harper:
If the Liberals can't pass their Throne Speech, then
they aren't able to form an effective government. But I think
the Liberals have every opportunity to do that - what they've
got to do is consult with people and make sure they tailor
their program so that the majority of MPs in the House of
Commons will actually vote for it.
Solomon:
But you're saying they haven't consulted with you.
Harper:
Well, they haven't consulted me, and I wouldn't expect them
to extensively consult me, because I think they understand
that it's not going to be the Official Opposition that props
up the government, but my impression is they haven't done
a lot of consultation with anybody. I've consulted pretty
regularly with Mr. Duceppe and Mr. Layton to get a sense of
what they're looking for - it's up to the government to do
the same thing. If you want to be a government in a minority
Parliament, you have to work with other people.
Solomon:
Would you describe this government's position because
of its lack of consultation as precarious?
Harper:
I'd describe it more as arrogant. And I think the
real problem that we're facing already is that the government
doesn't accept that it got a minority. The Liberals think
the natural state of affairs is a Liberal majority - they're
not happy about this, they don't accept it and quite frankly,
they're going to look for any opportunity to call an election.
I can tell you that our party and I'm sure Mr. Duceppe and
Mr. Layton from our conversations want Parliament to work
- it's in the interests of the Opposition for this Parliament
to go on for a while and be effective. It is only the government
that wants to end this state of affairs and go to have another
election.
Solomon:
Are you suggesting that the Liberals are baiting you to call
a confidence vote because they want another election and you
don't want another election?
Harper:
I think the government's strategy will be to have an election
as soon as possible. Maybe not this fall, but I think the
government wants an election.
Solomon:
And you don't!
Harper:
They can't stand having a minority. We accept that it's a
minority - for all the other parties we've been in a kind
of relatively powerless position for a long time. I think
we're looking forward to the opportunity of having some influence
for the next few years. And I'm happy to do that and continue
to take the time to build and organize my party which, as
you know, is relatively new. I think it's only the government
that just can't stand this situation and wants out of it.
Solomon:
Alright, where will we see the Conservatives’ stamp
on the Liberal agenda - if you have this power, and if you
have the power to influence, show me where we're going to
see your fingertips - on what pieces of legislation?
Harper:
You can see a couple of fingerprints already. The health accord
that the prime minister ended up signing looked a lot more
like my platform than his platform.
Solomon:
But it's a huge victory for him - you have to concede, he's
waving the flag saying we delivered.
Harper:
Well, we'll see. Look, I'm happy with the health accord. The
prime minister said he had a fix for a generation he was going
to tell the provinces how to run health care, the truth is
all he did was transfer money. There's some in his party who
don't think it's a victory but I think it's the only way we
could realistically go. On the payer...
Solomon:
Let's just talk about that for one second... you know the
old saying that success has a lot of fathers and failure's
an orphan. Is it a success that you say he did it because
of us and he says we did it because we're delivering on our
promise - who gets credit for the victory then?
Harper:
He did it let's be clear he did it because he has
no, he went to a First Ministers Conference but had no plan
for health care - that's why he did it. He did a deal that
the provinces can live with, a deal that we can live with
- the ball's now in the provinces' court, but if Mr. Martin
now tries to go into the next election saying I've fixed health
care for a generation - people are going to laugh. Because
everyone knows that's not what it is, it's a transfer of money
that allow the provinces to try to improve the system but
there's no easy fix there.
Solomon:
He says that it's a victory - he claims that he's delivering
a major platform. A lot of people are surprised that you played
ball so much on that. You sort of cooperated.
Harper:
But the agreement, I say we're not gonna switch our
position on the public. We ran on a platform. The agreement
he signed looked an awful lot, not a 100% but an awful lot
like what we had said was realistic. It didn't look anything
like what the prime minister said he was going to do and I
think that's something he's going to have to explain.
Solomon:
Special status for Quebec. Charest is saying we got special
status on this deal - people say Stephen Harper has been a
champion of provincial rights and OPPOSED to special status.
Why did you agree with that kind of configuration?
Harper:
Mr. Charest called me before the deal was signed a couple
of times and I said would this deal be something where every
province can have its own rights respected and its own deal,
is it equal for everybody. Mr. Charest said yes, and that's
what's in the deal. it says that every province has a right
to exercise its own jurisdictions to ask for its own side
deal. Only Quebec chose to do that. I can't blame Quebec for
doing that.
Solomon:
So you're saying that it's not a special status deal
that anyone could have had that special status.
Harper:
Remember also that this is provincial jurisdiction. The nature
of our constitution is that everyone is supposed to be able
to do their own thing in their own area of jurisdiction. I
don't consider that special status - but obviously Quebec
got a side deal.
Solomon:
But does it hurt you in Alberta? And say hey Quebec
got its... what's the difference between asymmetrical federalism
and special status and the old distinct society?
Harper:
I think the only question in Alberta people have
is why the Alberta government didn't ask for its own deal.
Because it could have done so.
Solomon:
Interesting.
Harper:
And I can't blame Quebec for that.
Solomon:
What other pieces of legislation will we see the Conservative
fingerprints on.
Harper:
Well we've already seen one right away which is the Liberals
were trying to get this pay increase through the back door
of a judges salary and of course we called for that to be
nixed and the government's now promised to bring in legislation
on that - beyond that I don't know
Solomon:
Marijuana legislation?
Harper:
The government hasn't told us very much about what
it's legislative agenda is, I know almost nothing in specifics
about what it's legislative agenda is so I'm waiting to see...
Solomon:
A lot of legislation died on the floor when the Parliament
was prorogued, and I'm thinking specifically about decriminalizing
marijuana - if that gets re-brought in will you kill that?
try to?
Harper:
We had some debate in our caucus about our position
in caucus about that - I think it's unlikely that we would
support that bill.
Solomon:
Unlikely.
Harper:
Yeah...
Solomon:
Wednesday the Supreme Court will debate same-sex
legislation again. It's a hot-button issue in your party.
What happens, what do you do now?
Harper:
Well really it is in the hands of the courts now - my strong
view is that this should be decided by the personal opinions
of the 308 elected people, not the personal opinions of 9
appointed people, but this is the route the government's going
it seems to me now just as a practical matter, now that the
hearing will start, it's very difficult now for Parliament
to intervene. I don't think frankly we're under much of an
illusion about what the courts are going to rule, their views
on this are pretty well-known but I think then we'll just
have to see and then the government will have to take a decision
on whether it's going to table legislation on this or not.
It has legislation, it's just refused to send it to the House
of Commons.
Solomon:
If you'd like to see elected officials determine that - you're
an elected official, how would you vote on that?
Harper:
I've always been clear, I support the traditional
definition of marriage. I have no difficulty with the recognition
of civil unions for non-traditional relationships but I believe
in law we should protect the traditional definition of marriage.
That's my personal view I would say most in my caucus agree
with that but there are some who don't and I've always said
that on these kinds of moral issues, people have the right
to their own opinions.
Solomon:
If you were prime minister and the Supreme Court ruled in
a way that you didn't agree with what would your response
be?
Harper:
It depends on the issue. I think generally speaking
we take court rulings pretty seriously but I've said there
are issues where, I've pointed to the child pornography decision,
Supreme Court rulings that have made pornography easier to
obtain in this country - we would probably take pretty strong
legislative matters against some of those rulings.
Solomon:
We're starting back in Parliament, we followed you for the
election, if we had one day to do over again in the election,
what day would it be?
Harper:
I don't get into that second guessing of myself publicly.
I think that we had a lot better campaign than people thought
we were going to. There were very few people who thought we'd
be in contention to win that election, and very few people
even six months ago who thought the Liberals would be facing
a minority - in fact we had polls telling us Paul Martin would
be winning a record number of seats...
Solomon:
But then there was polling and you said you could
win a majority...!
Harper:
Well now, no, I didn't say we could I said that was
my objective. I didn't say we could, I think we were never
more than 2 points ahead in any poll.
Solomon:
But you were preparing for a majority..
Harper:
I always will. I'm preparing now. It's the obligation
of the Official Opposition to be prepared to form a government.
We've still got a lot of work to do on that. I think we had
on balance when the dust settles on balance we did a lot better
than people'd expect. And I think everybody thinks we're going
to do better next time - I haven't read a single columnist
who suggests that we will probably do worse in the next election
so I think that we are on the way up, the Liberals are on
their way down and time will tell.
Solomon:
Last bit of business here - Parliament gets back
in session, you're the Leader of the Opposition - is there
any trigger issue in the first week that we could see the
Conservatives bring a confidence vote to this government?
Harper:
Well we're going to put an amendment to the Throne Speech
that's almost inevitable because as I say the chances of the
government producing a Throne Speech that's exactly the speech
we want are pretty low and it's the obligation of the Opposition
to show its alternative.
Solomon:
Could that be a confidence vote?
Harper:
Yeah sure it could, absolutely...
Solomon:
It could...
Harper:...
But it will ultimately depend how the other parties vote including
how the Liberals vote. The Liberals always have the option
of endorsing something that we put forward.
Solomon:
You met with the Governor General -
Harper:
Yes I did
Solomon:
You haven't commented much about that meeting...
Harper:
By law I'm not allowed to, I'm a privy councilor, all my discussions
with the Crown are supposed to be of the highest confidence
until the day I die - I can't even tell my wife!
Solomon:
Okay well let's skirt around the issue a little bit - are
you preparing, do you have a plan in the event the government
falls to form a government instead of calling an election?
Harper:
No such plan. Our plan is always to be ready to be an alternative
government. But my assumption is the Liberals will make the
compromises necessary to be a government in this Parliament.
Solomon:
Now I've known you for a while, chance favors the prepared
mind, no one would accuse you of not being a prepared mind.
You're telling me you don't have a plan B in the event this
government falls to a confidence vote - you haven't talked
to other parties - Layton, Duceppe, anybody - about forming
a government?
Harper:
I'm telling you that I've always my responsibility is to be
prepared to form a government so we're always working at that.
Solomon:
With who?
Harper:
Well I've said I would not form a coalition under any circumstances
- I said that in the election campaign, nothing changes. I
expect we're going to put forward our program for the country,
how we would make the House of Commons work. I know that Mr.
Duceppe and Mr. Layton don't want an election, I think the
Liberals may have a different view. We'll just see. We'll
do whatever's necessary but I think we're going to be the
official Opposition in this Parliament, I think that's how
things will work.
Solomon:
I just want to clarify something - you won't work with other
parties
Harper:
No I said we will work with other parties..
Solomon:
You will, but you won't form a coalition -
Harper:
No.
Solomon:
You won't form a coalition, therefore in the event this government
falls we cannot expect you to turn to another party and try
to form a government, in other words it will be an election?
Harper:
Well you're getting into a lot of hypotheticals...
Solomon:
That's what this is all about!
Harper:
I've said we wouldn't, we're not looking to form a coalition,
the Bloc Quebecois has been very consistent that they're not
going to form a coalition with anybody, so we wouldn't look
to form a coalition - but the present government isn't in
a coalition either.
Solomon:
So why did you write that letter to the Governor-General
with Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton saying in the event of
a confidence vote situation do not call a snap election -
are we to assume that therefore you're working to form a coalition?
Harper:
There seems to be an attitude in the Liberal government -
that they can go in, be deliberately defeated and call an
election - that's not how our constitutional system works.
The government has a minority - it has an obligation to demonstrate
to Canadians that it can govern. That it can form a majority
in the House of Commons. If it can't form a majority, we look
at other options, we don't just concede to the government's
request to make it dysfunctional. I know for a fact that Mr.
Duceppe and Mr. Layton and the people who work for them want
this Parliament to work and I know if is in all of our interests
to work. The government has got to face the fact it has a
minority, it has to work with other people.
Solomon:
Other options meaning that you would have to govern though
- don't you have to be in a coalition de facto - isn't that
the implication?
Harper:
The current government believes it doesn't have to be in a
coalition and I share that view. There's a lot of options
in the House of Commons - what I expect the Liberals to do
is try to seek different allies for different pieces of legislation.
Solomon:
This is a fascinating...
Harper:
That's what I think they'll do but they're going to have to
make some compromises to do that...
Solomon:
This is fascinating because usually we think of the
Leader of the Opposition in a minority government as trying
to bring the government down - you're saying they want to
bring themselves down and they want to continue the status
quo! Which is a kind of ...
Harper:
Canadians want the Parliament to work - but look we're not
going to roll over to agree with the government just so they
can stay in office. But as I say we've been away from minority
government's for so long we've forgotten how they work. The
government is still the government. The official Opposition
is still the Official Opposition. And these two parties are
still going to battle for govenrment in the next election.
And that's how the system works. There's going to be other
parties, the third parties and that's usually where the government's
going to have to seek its mandate to try to get a majority
in the House of Commons and it's - that's really their primary
responsibility. They've got to get these other parties supporting
them regularly or they can't command the confidence of the
House. And the same would be true for me if I had the most
seats, I would have to find a way of governing.
Solomon:
Is there a similarity between this government and the Joe
Clark government?
Harper:
We'll see. We'll see - time will tell - but there
does seem to be an attitude that they can govern as if they
have a majority. And as I've told you I think Joe Clark taught
us I think that's the wrong attitude to have in a minority
Parliament.
Solomon:
They didn't consult...
Harper:
It didn't work either.
Jobs
| Contact Us | Help
Terms of Use
| Privacy | Copyright
| Other Policies
Copyright © CBC 2004
|