Related Local Links:
120/220 Film for Medium Format Cameras
Classic Camera Film Sizes, Sources, and Film Adapters
Kodak Medalist 620 Rollfilm Camera
Using A Brownie as a Film Respooler Machine (by Geospot) [7/2001]
Related Links:
620 respooling FAQ
620 Tips and Tricks [5/2001]
Film For Classics
How to Transfer 120 film to 620 Spools
by Brian Wolfe [7/2001]
Respooling 620 film
Respooling 828 film
Sources of 620 film
All of the on-line instructions I've seen for rolling 120 onto 620 spindles
are techniques for doing it the hard way.
I don't roll the film first onto an intermediate spool, then onto the
620 spindle. All I do is pull the film and its backing off the 120 spool
and let it curl naturally into a palm-sized roll, without a spool. As I
reach the end of the 120 spool (it's easy to tell by feel), I hang onto the
tab of the paper leader as it comes out of the slot in the 120 spool.
Then I pick up the 620 spool (conveniently placed for location in the
dark) and by running my finger along the axle, it is easy to tell which of
the two sides has the longer slot. I insert the leader tab into the
longer slot as far as it will go and feel it come out on the other side.
Then I start winding according to the natural curl of the paper. After a
short length of paper is wound onto the spool, the gummed tab for taping
the exposed film roll presents itself and I keep rolling, letting it stay
where it is. After a few more inches of rolling, the loose end of the
film will present itself.
Avoid touching the film as much as possible and
sandwich it onto the roll along with the paper backing, and keep on
rolling. Make sure the paper and film stay aligned between the spindle
ends, and wind the whole thing with the least slack possible.
Presently you will come to the leading edge of the film, which will be taped
to the paper backing. Due to principles of geometry and rewinding that I
needn't go into, the paper and film lengths will not be exactly matched where
they are taped together. The film will be slightly longer, and it will
have to
be separated from its backing and repositioned before rolling can continue.
Slip your finger between the film and the paper and untape them. The tape
will remain attached along the edge of the film. Don't worry about retaping
them. If you just continue winding, the film will retape itself properly to
the paper. The repositioning will not be enough to affect the alignment of
the frame numbers on the back of the film.
Continue winding until all of the
paper leader is on the spool. Tuck the leader tab under and put a rubber band
on the rewound spool to keep it in place until it is ready for the camera.
What I have just described sounds more complicated than it really is. Years
ago I did my first one successfully without any instructions at all, just
doing what came naturally.
After you do the first one the next one will be
easy. I find that I can do a roll in about five minutes. I also find that
Fuji and Ilford films are easier to rewind than Kodak because their paper
doesn't tend to crinkle as easily or tend to ride up and over the spool ends.
Just remember not to start with sweaty hands, and try not to touch the film
anywhere except along the sides. Also, it would be a good idea to let your
eyes have about five minutes to adjust to the dark to make sure no stray light
is getting into the darkroom.
Not having a darkroom, I use the bathroom at
night with the house lights turned off, a towel across the opening at the
bottom of the door, and opaque curtains drawn across the window. I detect no
light, even after waiting a few minutes for my eyes to adjust, and have never
fogged a film.
Al Thompson, Huntington Beach, CA
I use a Kodak Medalist II regularly because it is the most compact camera
available with a huge 2,1/4 x 3,1/4 inch negative and an incredible 100 mm
f3.5, 6-element *(see note below), coated Ektar lens that doesn't break
down at the edges, even
when wide open. My 6x6 C/M Hassy with its 80 mm f2.8 T* Planar can't do that
wide open. The Medalist may be aesthetically ugly, and heavy as a brick, but
you still can't get so much quality packed into such a small package for so
little money anywhere else. It serves most of my needs very well, even with
its fixed lens.
Why Kodak, in it's eternal wisdom(?), made it a 620 is beyond me. And I still
haven't figured out why the line wasn't continued and improved with
interchangeable lenses, etc. All of this notwithstanding, I find its large
negative and compact size worth the inconvenience of rerolling 120 film onto
620 spindles. For others who may be contemplating respooling 120 onto 620
spindles I offer the following:
[listed as 6 element in some kodak literature, 5 element per posting
below:]
I really enjoy your web site. It serves a good and useful purpose, and I am
still checking out sections of it.
Al Thompson
Editor's Notes:
Special thanks to Mr. Al Thompson for sharing his easy 620 respooling technique with interested photographers! I also appreciate his review of the Kodak Medalist series cameras, which are very highly regarded cameras both for their optics and sturdy designs. Unfortunately, modifying a Kodak Medalist to take 120 film is very expensive (circa $250 upgrade) and somewhat problematic (tight fit). This approach saves a lot of money and opens up continued use for lots of popular 620 cameras out there by medium format camera users!
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998
From: kodiax@mailhost.cle.ameritech.net
Reply to: kodiax@ameritech.net
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: useing 120 film in a 620 camera
To Al Thompson:
The method I use to use 120 film in a 620 camera is......
Very carefully - I shave the diameter of the 120 spool to make the same
as the diameter
of a 620 spool, then shave the ends of the spool to make it the same
length as a 620 spool.
If you are careful it works pretty good.
From: Paul Corrao
e-mail--- kodiax@ameritech.net
From: Oop's martin@wollongong.apana.org.au
Subject: Re: Ever try ADAPTING 120 FILM for use in 620 CAMERA?
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999
Jim
Yea cut the outer edge of the 120 film spool off with nail clippers. There is a line on Kodak spools which I cut to. This works fine.
rm
jdavis@mylink.net wrote:
> I used to occasionally shoot w/ my Kodak DualflexII, but I can no > longer find 620 film. Years ago, I heard someone say that it can > accept 120, w/ minor modification to either the film or the camera. > Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this? Thanks in > advance! > > Jim Davis
From: uablyfl@uab.ericsson.se (Lyndon Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: 620 onto 120
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999
chipcurser@aol.com (ChipCurser) wrote:
>I have a question about respooling 120 film onto 620 spools. I am looking for >a way to do this without using a darkroom or changing bag. I just thought up >this idea. I haven't tried this yet, but was wondering if I could take a 120 >camera and put a 620 roll inside as the take up spool and wind the film onto >it. Then take the film out and put it in a 620 format camera ane with another >620 roll in the take up spool, wind the film onto the new roll. Then reverse >the film and empty 620 reel and then use the camera. Or better yet, could I >expose the roll of film in reverse.It won't work. 120 film is stuck to a backing paper but only at the leading edge (ie at the beginning).
I've respooled a couple of times. The technique I used was this. First
in a dark room I roll the 120 onto a spare 620 spool. When I reach the
end I tuck the tail into another 620 spool and take up the tail paper
intil I feel the unglued end of the film. Keeping the backing paper
taught I make sure that the film is being rolled evenly onto the spool
and then wind film and backing paper together until I get to the
beginning. Usually the film and backing are very slightly out of step
by then, so I carefully unstick the tape joinging fim to bacing paper,
work out the slack (a few mm at most) and restick it with the same
tape.
This seems to work ok.
Lyndon
From: mlanger@ccs.carleton.ca (Mark Langer)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: 620 onto 120
Date: 24 May 1999
> Why bother? Break down, and buy a 120 camera. Between things like the Lubitel > 166U, and old Yashica Mats, you can find something affordable.
Affordable, perhaps. But there are great bargains in 620 films for those
willing to do a little respooling. Like the Kodak Monitor (6x9) or Duo 620
(4.5x6) with Tessar-type lenses in great shutters for a fraction of the
cost of comparable 6x9 or 645 cameras. And the Kodak Medalist and
Chevron, which have glass comparable to the finest professional 6x9 and
6x6 cameras. And, money considerations aside, these are great cameras
that don't deserve to be reduced to shelf trophies.
Mark
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999
From: "Glenn Stewart (Arizona)" gstewart@inficad.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Converting 620 cameras to 120
JIB wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has successfully converted a 620 cameras or > backs to use 120 film. > John
John,
I frequently re-spool 120 film onto 620 spools for use in my Brownie
Hawkeyes. These cameras cost me about $5 at camera shows and certainly
would not be worth converting to use 120 film as it comes from the box.
620 and 120 films are almost identical. The film and paper backing are
so close as to be indistinguishable without taking some measurements.
For this discussion, and in practical use, they are the same.
120 film spools have thicker and slightly larger diameter end flanges
than 620 spools. The center 'axel' of the 120 spool is larger than the
620 spool. The slot in the axel is the same length on both sides of the
120 spool, but is long on one side and short on the other side of a 620
spool. The holes in the ends of the spools are larger on the 120 spools
than they are on 620 spools.
Respooling requires that the film and paper backing be completely
removed from the 120 spool (obviously in total darkness), then the
winding process is reversed (last end off the 120 spool is the first put
onto the 620 spool). The paper is fed into the longer slot of the 620
spool axel and protrudes from the shorter slot on the other side of the
spool axel. When you get to the place where the film is taped to the
backing, you'll have to untape it and then retape it to eliminate a
bulge in the film roll. The bulge is caused by the film and paper
rolling around the smaller 620 spool axel at different rates than they
did on the larger 120 spool axel.
When you're done, be sure to clearly mark the film type o the outside of
the paper. Kodak TMX (100 ISO) and TMY (400 ISO) use the same paper
backing and are not marked by film type.
One of these days I'm going to illustrate this procedure on my web site.
Best regards,
Stew
--
Photo Web pages: http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "David Foy" nomail@thisaddress.please
[1] Re: 620 film
Date: Thu Apr 13 2000
Try: http://www.toptown.com/nowhere/kypfer/120-620faq.htm
There is also good 620 information on Bob M's Medium Format pages:
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/film.html is a good start point.
The 620 film spool is slightly smaller in diameter than 120, so to use 120
in a 620 camera you usually have to enlarge the film spool chamber with a
Dremel tool or something like that. Some camera, like the Kodak Tourist,
have body shells thick enough for the operation. Others, like the Monitor,
don't. I've never seen a Bower, but you might be able to tell by looking.
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000
From: Pookywinkel pookywinkel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: The real reason Kodak created 620
*Someone* without historical context or knowledge offered his unsubstantiated opinion:
> > Rubbish! Kodak invented 620 to ensure that camera owners bought their > > film and not a competitors!
Pookywinkel replied:
> Several manufacturers offered 620 film besides Kodak: Ansco/GAF, Agfa, > Ilford, Orwo, and Efke come to mind. And a number of non-Kodak 620 > cameras were made as well, but Kodak was the primary producer of both > 620 film and 620 cameras. > > --
Pookywinkel adds:
Do you know what size film the original 6x6cm Rolleiflex accepted? It
wasn't 120! It was in fact 117! 117 size film dates back well before
620, yet the 620 and 117 spools were very very similar: narrow spindle
and smaller slots on the spool ends. 117 film offered six 6x6cm
exposures per roll. In fact, most cameras that accepted 117 size film
could readily accept 620 when Kodak introduced 620 in the early 30's.
From: "Andrew G Williams" agwilliams@clara.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: 620 film in the Wide World
http://www.central-camera.com/film_for_older_cameras.htm offers a range of
fresh, hand-spooled films, including 620 and 127 sizes.
Andy.
Tony Norris berthas@starpower.net wrote
> Hi, > I just saw this so maybe you've heard that B&H photo in New York lists 620 > film and also some other forgotten sizes. > Cheers, > Tony
[Ed.note: another kind of respooling trick!...]
From: reynolds@panix.com (Brian Reynolds)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 12 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Using 35mm in a 6x7 Graflex back...
OorQue oorque@aol.com wrote:
>Assuming I can come up with adapters to center the cartridge between >the back's pins, the only awkward step I see is that I'll have to >either load or unload the film in a changing bag since the film will >have to be rewound into the cartridge after being exposed. A roll of >36-exposure 35mm film is roughly the same length as a roll of 220, as >are the film's thicknesses, which means I should be able to get 20 >24mm x 67mm exposures to a roll, right?
There is a much easier way to do this. Simply respool the 35mm film
onto a 120 spindle. I've done this with a Zeiss Nettar 6x9 camera
(which had a lot of dirt/haze on the center lens element) and a 120spool
and backing paper. You can see the results at
URL:
http://www.panix.com/~reynolds/photography/35mm/panoramic.html.
The scans are of the negatives done with a cheap Artec SCANROM 4E, so
they're not the best. The enlargements are nice. I also have a
pointer to a professor at RIT who's web page inspired me to try this.
--
Brian Reynolds
http://www.panix.com/~reynolds
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000
From: Laura Rogan
Newsgroups:rec.photo.equipment
Subject: Re: does anyone know where i can get 620 film????
620 and other obsolete types can be found on B&H;'s site, click on;
http://www01.bhphotovideo.com/default.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=CatalogActivator__Acatalog_html___336___SID=E24C76ADCF0
[Ed. note: a tip that may work on some 620 cameras...]
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001
From: MGnet@aol.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: 620 and 120 film
A photographer/employee at a local camera shop told me that, contrary to
what other employees were telling me, I did not have to respool 120 film
onto 620 spools but merely needed to change from a 620 takeup spool to a
120 spool. It worked!
Since he didn't ask what kind of camera I had, I am guessing it works in
all 620s. If you have already explored this on your site, sorry I missed
it, and did it work for anyone else?
Thanks.
Mary
From: "Glenn Stewart (Arizona)" gstewart@inficad.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001
Subject: Re: 620 film
Loose,
On my site (URL below), under Tips & Techniques, there is a
photo-illustrated tutorial on re-spooling 120 onto 620 spools. That's
where I get the film to shoot in my Brownie Hawkeyes. You get the full
array of color, B&W; and transparency films available to the 120
shooters, and for far less money than buying commercially spooled 620.
Best regards,
Stew
..
Photo Web pages: http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001
From: Michael Briggs MichaelBriggs@EarthLink.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: 620 film
///LoosE**||**FiT\\\\\\ wrote:
> I've been told that you can re-roll 120 film onto the slightly smaller 620 > spools, of which I have one. > Any tips from anyone about > 1) How to best modify 120 spools to the 620 size > 2) How to re-roll the film itself
Your best bet is to buy some 620 film (e.g., http://www.photomall.com/ffc1.htm,
http://www01.bhphotovideo.com/) and save the spools for reuse. The
following web site gives some tips:
http://members.aol.com/Chuck02178/getfilm.htm
--Michael
From: Glenn Stewart -Arizona- gstewart@inficad.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001
Subject: Re: 620 film
Bill,
Sorry for the delay. I'd have responded immediately if I had gotten an e-
mail in parallel to your post. I haven't looked at the group for a couple
of weeks.
The "Exposed" seal tape is left in place. You'll need it after you have
exposed the film.
The difference in length encountered when spooling the film and paper
back onto the 620 spool, though constant from roll to roll, probably
can't be accurately estimated by feel during the respooling process. Any
misjudgements will result in the leading edge of the film being out of
place one direction or the other. It's really pretty easy to untape it
and adjust the tape position because most of the material has been wound
onto the spool by that time anyway, so you don't have too many things to
handle. It's only an 8th of an inch or so off, and rather than have a
bulge in the roll caused by misjudging the offset at the trailing edge of
the film, I'd just as soon plan on untaping it and avoid the guesswork.
Best regards,
Stew
flanagan@wdn.com says...
> Thanks for the post, and particularly the photos on your web site > comparing the two spools--that's useful. > A couple of comments: > --You don't mention the "exposed" seal strip at the "tail" of the film. > Do you leave it in place? > --The kink in the tape isn't necessarily due entirely to the difference > in the sizes of the cores, which contriburtes, but also to the the > looser wind of the film when it's taken off the 120 spool. As the film > and backing paper are wound up on the 620 spool, the number of turns > increases. As the film is closer to the spool (shorter radius) its > circumference is slightly smaller than the paper's, and that difference > exists for each extra turn. By the time you've wound to the tape, > there's extra film. This is true for either core, even if you put it > back on the 120. > At the tuck-in of the film, perhaps one could compensate by tucking the > film in a little more--by the distance you'd expect to move the tape, to > be exact. I'll have to look for a 620 spool and give it a try. > Bill > Glenn Stewart (Arizona) wrote: > > Loose, > > On my site (URL below), under Tips & Techniques, there is a > > photo-illustrated tutorial on re-spooling 120 onto 620 spools. That's > > where I get the film to shoot in my Brownie Hawkeyes. You get the full > > array of color, B&W and transparency films available to the 120 > > shooters, and for far less money than buying commercially spooled 620. > > Best regards, > > Stew
----
Photo Web pages: http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart
[Ed. note: Thanks to Michael Le Fevre for this spool tip!...]
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001
From: Michael Le Fevre anti_vegetarian@hotmail.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Great website on using 120 in 620 cameras
Hey Robert, can you scrub that last message of mine and replace it with
this website I found which is the definitive word on doing this (it gives
six different methods) -
http://www.neocomm.net/~jmarshal/F_620.html
Thanks
Mike
[Ed. note: Special thanks to Geospot for sharing these tips on respooling using a Kodak Brownie as a film respooling machine!!!]
Hi From GeoSpot in St. Louis!
Here is my simple method for respooling 120 film to 620 without need of a
(Changing Bag) or "Light Tight Room" I quite simply use my old Bakelite
Brownie Hawkeye Camera as the implement of need. Although use of an
intermediate spool is called for, here are the instructions; simple,
simple!
1. Load your 120 film of choice into the upper take off spool
position.
2. Position an (Empty) 620 film spool in the lower film winding take up
spool position, Long horizontal slot in spool facing you to receive paper
winding tab.
3. Start winding the paper tab of your unexposed 120 film onto the
620 spool to get a good "Bite" 2-3 turns!
4. Put Camera back on and lock into position as if you intended to shoot
this roll of film, And shoot by all means if you must otherwise keep your
finger away from the shutter and wind, Wind, WIND!! You will notice the
numbers cascade by the ruby window as you go about this procedure.
Continue on until the film has reached it's end and all is on the Take-Up
Spool, that is the 620 spool.
5. Open the Brownie up and find your roll of film that now reads Exposed
on the backing paper and in the lower portion of the camera, just as if
you had exposed that roll of film and were ready to process. I of course
hope you did not click the shutter during this process! [Ed. note:
clicking the shutter obviously exposes the film!]
6. Take out the upper empty 120 film spool and put aside.
7. Now load your bottom wound roll into the upper position, that is to
say, the 620 spool you rolled the 120 film onto and repeat this process
all over again onto another 620 spool. It is all so quite simple it is
ridiculous and can be done in about 3 minutes. But I would suggest going
very slowly for one thing to avoid emulusion scratches and static
electricity exposure. [Ed. note: winding film too fast in dry conditions
can produce static electricity discharges whose sparks of light can fog
film]
8. Now you have a pefectly tensioned, light safe and fingerprint "Free"
roll of 620 Film in any specification [Ed. note: emulsion] you would
desire! Before going on to proceed this action however there are a few
precautions I feel I should bring to light! Very Important ! ! !
There are some precautions you must go through to ensure total
success in this simple endeaver. I will list as follows with some
interesting side interest's [Ed. note: asides]
A. Find a Brownie Hawkeye Camera Circa; 1950s (Top Reflex Viewer) a lot
of them have a place to "Screw" a bolt on explosive flashbulb attachment!
Right side looking at front of Camera! "Robie the Robot on (Pee Wee's)
Playhouse that used to air so long ago had two of these cameras affixed to
both sides of it's Robot head!
B. Go to Ebay there are lot of them there to be had for "Pimples" if you
would be a patient bidder and pay the person once you win a bid!
C. Look at the rear Ruby Viewing Window on that camera. Is it truly a
dark dark "Ruby" color or has it faded to a Quasi ruby Orange or weird
"Green-Brown" color? If the later comes into play you will be assured of
fogged film. There are however ways to get around these difficulties!
Simple! Fun? & Cheap!
D. If you find yourself needing more assistance regarding these matters,
then by all means E-Mail Me at geo@ocisp.net
And thank's for being a Photograpic Realist!
"Sincerely"
GeoSpot
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001
From: geo geo@ocisp.net
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: Re: Correction on using Hawkeye Brownie for spooling 120 to 620
I did forget to mention that the end of the roll on
some 120 films is not attached with tape to the backing paper, and
if one was to rewind the intermediate roll onto the final 620 roll,
disaster would "Stike"! So in the long run you would either have to
sacrifice the last frame in a lighted environment or go into a light-safe
place [Editer: e.g., darkroom or changing bag] and using a piece of 2 &
1/4 " long piece of masking tape to tape the loose end of film to the
backing paper then reassemble and rewind. Otherwise the operation would be
futile and impossible as the loose end of the film would jamb against the
rollers or guides in the rolling camera and reverse it's path independant
or the backing paper, effectively separating the film from the backing to
a certain degree until jamb up causing a spoiled roll.
"Sorry" for the inconsistency of my initial article - GeoSpot!
Even so, this is an excellent way to reroll film, in that dust,
fingerprints, tensioning concerns & clumsy handling are virtually
eliminated. These old Bakelite Brownies have a lot to offer not only for
the re-rolling gig but as excellent cameras to take all kind of pics with!
Sure it may have only a shutter speed of between 40 - 50 - 60[th
second],
cranky to temp in that regard, and an f-stop of f/11 but I think too many
people have been [too] fast to disregard this fabulous Photographic
Gem of
an item. Even with it's fixed focus "Single
Element" Menicus lens. I
think a lot of folks compare prints circa 1950's that were captured with
this camera and it isn't fair! Color print films and papers were inferior
and unstable to color retention as compared to what is available to us in
this day and age and I have done some just fabulous things with this
little "Forgotten One"!
Of course the only economical way to operate one of these little
forgottens is to do your own B/W processing, reason being that I have
yet to find a lab doing 120 processing that weren't overly inflated in
their pricing and that is truly a shame for all us out there wanting to
get "arty" with our old box cameras !!! Kodak has alway been one to
design Planned Obsolescence in all their products even though
[the new] one
is no better than the one that came before!
Even though I still use Kodak emulsions & chemistry, I'm still
pretty miffed at them for what they do and what they have done!
Sincerely,
GeoSpot
geo@ocisp.net
[Ed. note: Brian Wolfe has a nice page, also supplies conversion kits for
620 to 120 spooling (spools etc.) for a modest fee...]
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001
From: "brian.wolfe bpwltd.com" brian@bpwltd.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Using 120 film in 120 cameras
Hi,
I have a site that shows how to use 120 film in 620 cameras by respooling it.
The URL is:
http://www.bpwltd.com/620120.html
Hope you can use it.
Brian
10870 W. Washington Blvd.
Culver City, CA
90232
(310) 202-0816