Related Links:
Avoid Going on EBAY Drunk!
Bill's Bad Ebay experience and fraud reporting links..
Ebay Bid Scam
Ebay Policy on USENET (Verbotem to advertise there..) [7/2001]
I did some research on the weekend. I visited eBay.com, an online auction
house which many of you have heard of. I just upgraded to an F5 and I
wanted to find out how much my F90X gear is worth. I'm still trying to
decide if I should keep the F90X as a second AF camera (already have an FE
as a true backup) or sell it now for a quick hit of cash.
In following table, prices are in USD of used equipment on eBay.com for the
1-month period Dec 15 1998 to Jan 15 1999.
Data includes the lowest price paid, the average, the median, and the
highest price paid and the number of items sold. Items where bidding failed
to meet the reserve price were excluded -- these overpriced items comprised
approximately 15%-20% of all listed items.
Item Low Avg Med High number sold - ---- --- --- --- ---- -- F90X/N90s 570 665 695 717 13 MB-10 138 146 149 153 3 MF-26 152 193 195 234 10 ____________________________________________ Sum 859 1003 1039 1103
In all cases, the sellers mentioned that shipping was extra on top of the
final bid price. There is a nominal insertion fee to have the equipment
listed. However, eBay takes a 2% cut of the final bid price for their
auction fee, which the seller must pay.
Quality ranged from "used, sorry no manual" to "mint, still in box,
unfilled warranty card". Most were slightly used but with original warranty
stub. According to the fine print, the warranty on Nikon gear is not
transferable.
I would say that it is certainly a seller's market for Nikon gear on eBay
right now. The selling prices there are very good. But I still can't decide
if I should keep my stuff or not! It's hard to part with such a nice
camera, even if there's now a better one in my posession.
DavidE
From: Kent Kressenberg krkress@voy.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: ebay: the technical analysis
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998
Hello -
While I find some of Doug's analysis to be accurate, it isn't the
whole story. The prices people are paying on eBay are often CRAZY! I've
seen bids on some (used) items at or above the NEW price from a NY
dealer!
Furthermore, there is a LOT of ignorance out there! I recently
clicked on an auction for "Graflex Strob's" because I'm in the market for
the Strob 350 and 500 series electronic flashes. Upon seeing a picture of
the items I found that they weren't strobes at all; they were BULB
flashguns! I've seen a recent bid of around $120 for a Graflex HV strobe
that uses batteries which are no longer available! Another strobe (which
uses $80 HV dry batteries) was sold for nearly $50 WITHOUT the
pack-to-head power cord! Very strange indeed.
As with any auction, prices tend to be higher than you would expect.
As always, bidders would do well to set themselves a limit for a given
item above which they will let it go.
I have chosen to investigate each item VERY carefully, as sellers are
often ignorant of what they have, how (whether) it works or what needed
items are included. It's all-too-easy to buy a "pig in a poke" on eBay!
Caveat Emptor.
Kent Kressenberg
Chattanooga, Tn.
From: "Douglas Farmer" dfarmer@nospam.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: ebay: the technical analysis
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998
The observed phenomenom is that used photographic equipment
prices have risen since the emergence of ebay.
This bothers people who are accustomed to buying for less. In
in the long run, it's good for anyone who intends to buy equipment
to use, and eventually sell. It's bad for anyone who intends to buy
and quickly sell for a profit.
What has occurred is a cutting out of the used equipment broker.
More precisely, the dramatic undercutting in price for the brokerage
service. Many serious amateurs have always imagined themselves
as equipment brokers in addition to equipment users. They really
hoped to buy equipment, use it, and then sell it for a profit. That
potential has evaporated, perhaps forever. The real winners
in the ebay phenomena are those people who used to sell
a lens to a camera store (or a savvy amateur) for $100 and
the store sold it for $200. The big losers will be photography
stores who do a large used business: their prices have
_always_ been similar to current ebay prices, but they
paid far less than what ebay sellers are getting.
For photography, it's a good thing. Imagine a highly liquid
market for expensive equipment. You buy that 2.8 400 mm lens
today, use it for a few months, and then, after the novelty
has worn off, you sell, collecting 95% of what you paid.
Then you try some other exotic lens. Sounds like fun.
A prediction: over time, ebay prices for contemporary products
will drop, as volume increases ten fold. There are legitimate reasons
why the value of anything falls the second it becomes owned by a
consumer. Expect prices for "minty" to be 80-85% of B&H; grey.
If you're gonna sell, there's no time like the present.
Douglas Farmer
From: "Micron News" dbledsoe@micron.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: SCREW EBAY!!!
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998
peters wrote
>Anytime you see an auction being taken over by retail camera stores, >it only means one thing: They are making more money there than they >can expect to get in their stores. period.
Well no kidding. Maybe that's because they find they can reach a much
greater target market via an international web site aimed specifically at
the clientele they need. Doesn't take much for most people to figure that
out. Sort of the same reason you bid on the finder instead of going to your
local camera store and telling the owner what you need only to have him say,
"Sorry but I don't have that." Ebay targets the market for you, regardless
whether you are a buyer or seller. But you have to be wise enough to ask
all the right questions when you are bidding on something you can't actually
put your hands on.
I once sold a Leica mini tripod on ebay. The guy who ended as high bidder
turned out to be a guy who was too damn lazy to find out what he was bidding
on. I included the Leica part number and a complete description with my ad.
This idiot bid twice what a new one would cost because he thought it was a
table top tripod. He was either too stupid or too lazy to simply look the
part number up to confirm what he was bidding on. Once he received the
tripod he accused me of deceptive practices. What?!!! I described exactly
what was up for bid right down to the part number (a common practice when
advertising Leica items). Was I obligated to track this dummy's bid frenzy
and somehow enlighten him that perhaps he doesn't know what the hell he is
doing? Was I obligated to refund his money once he started squealing like
a stuck pig when he received it? No but I did in spite of his stupidity.
If people are not smart enough to make sure they know what the heck they are
bidding on... well it is no ones fault but their own.
From: "Don" nospam@csi.com
Subject: Re: ebay: the technical analysis
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998
Douglas Farmer wrote
>The observed phenomenom is that used photographic equipment >prices have risen since the emergence of ebay. > ...
>Douglas Farmer
In essence, ebay, and other auction houses, are direct "seller to buyer"
transactions with no middleman. That is why prices received by the seller
are higher than taking to a dealer. Ebay takes no risk. They simply
provide a "classified ad" service that reaches a lot of people.
Dealers..on the other hand...have to put out cash for your used equipment,
then the equipment sits on a shelf until someone walks into the store
wanting that particular piece of equipment. So the dealer only give the
seller "wholesale"...that's how they make their money. And in many cases,
they don't make any money...the equipment sits on the shelf so long...it's
value decreases until the dealer will also wholesale it...or sell it to the
public at not much more (or even a loss) than they paid for it.
It's exactly like buying and selling any comodity. If you advertise in your
local newspaper, you'll generally get a higher price (presuming someone is
willing to buy) than if you take
Ebay and others are simply cutting out the middleman.
From: danksta@ns.sympatico.ca (Terry Danks)
I agree with Doug's statement as I so self-servingly snipped it.
Corollary, unfortunately is, for buyers: Stay away from ebay! Avoid it
like the plague! Buy new, especially "gray". Used prices are presently
totally out of whack with what any reasonable consumer should pay for
used goods from people they do not know as on ebay.
I have recently discovered http://www.keh.com . It appeals to me far
more than what is happening on ebay.
To each his own. If you enjoy the battle of auction. . . well more
power to you. I do not enjoy battleing with fellow consumers to see
who can throw the most money at any given item.
Terry Danks
From: danksta@ns.sympatico.ca (Terry Danks)
Some six weeks ago I purchased a DP-1 finder for a Nikon F2 from an
established, reputable dealer in Toronto. It was truly in near mint
condition and functions perfectly. Cost $80 ($125 Cdn).
Auction of a DP-1, also apparently in beautiful condition, just
concluded on EBAY . . . final price $225.
Conclusions:
1/ I got a fantastic bargain from a photo dealer who has been in
business for decades or . . .
2/ EBAY prices are ridiculous.
It's how I see it.
From: "Eric M. Kniager" E_Kniager@PolymerResources.com
I just did a quick analysis of successful deals between 12/19 and 1/9 on
ebay. This was specific to some Nikon equipment I own or would like to own.
Lenses are AF-D (the newest version of these). The data is presented as
follows:
You can get a sense of the popularity of some these different items. It
confirmed what I already believed- buy in the newsgroup/sell at ebay!
I hope these data help someone.
[Ed. note: I have abstracted the following table from the above data:
What a surprising result!
The average high price on EBAY for a used, no-warranty item was 97% of
the new grey market price from B&H; (with mfg/B&H; warranty).
Moreover, some used, non-warranty EBAY items sold for 23% more than
new grey market prices!
Even the low prices were hardly much of a bargain against grey market.
Not surprisingly, the higher the cost of the item new, the larger the
discounts seemed to run (over $500 average around 75% for a 25% discount -
while under $200 only average around 94% or just a 6% or so discount).
Finally, the biggest range for the same item was on the higher priced
items, as you might expect, with some folks getting a 10% discount (Hi
bidder) while others got over 30% (lo bidder) on the same items...
Conclusions?
EBAY may be worth more to careful buyers who know what an item is worth
in grey market and avoid paying too great a premium on any item on
EBAY.
The higher the cost of the item on grey market, the more likely you are
to have a larger range between high and low bids - and the more chance
you have of picking up a bargain!
From: danksta@ns.sympatico.ca (Terry Danks)
Don't even know where to begin here.
...
I am NOT, and never HAVE "complained" about ebay. It is just that
yourself and your ilk can not abide disagreement on any topic as other
than a personal attack. Tough! Fact is simple enough: EBAY is a VERY
successful phenomenon that has resulted in skyrocketing values for
just about all used (and some not so used) goods. That this is a fact
I do not deny. That it is desirable depends very much on whether you
are selling or buying. I have posted it before: I will sell at ebay .
. . . but not likely buy there.
I have come to the the conclusion that prices on ebay are too high,
not infrequently WAY too high! This was not a condition I was born
into. It is something I have learned, and my recent purchase of the
DP-1 referred to in the post certainly has reinforced my opinion on
the matter.
EBAY prices reflect NOTHING other than whatever bid any SINGLE human
being feels willing to type into his computer. Reserve prices mean
nothing more . . . only the perspective changes from buyer to seller.
Used F5's are NOT worth $1975. The fact that a seller set his reserve,
HIGHER than that, as happened recently, does NOT equate to "the
market" value of a used F5 being virtually identical to a new one.
Even ebay worked this time . . . the seller got NO bids. Fine with me,
and I assume with you too. Reserve prices, frequently unrealistic
(IMO), rather obviously give the lie to your assertion that
"*buyers*(not sellers)" determine the value of an item. Everytime an
auction closes with the "reserve not yet met" proviso means potential
buyers have wasted their time. Oh, they tried to "determine market
value" but the seller prevented the market from working. That does irk
me a tad. If sellers are to reap the benefits of sky-high bids from
the uninformed, let them take a little risk too without the cushy
advantage of a safely hidden reserve price.
I fail to see why you, and others, feel that ebay is somehow above
discussion. Any such discussion is "pissing" (your inelegant term,
despite your complaint about poor language, certainly not mine) and
"moaning".
I find ebay VERY interesting. It is certainly NOT a plot. That said,
the poor sap who stayed at his keyboard, sniping away, and paid
$225 for a DP-1, well, I think he could have done a lot better . . .
certainly I did just a few short weeks ago. Now, of course, I just
happen to have a "spare" DP-1. Guess what I think its worth? Guess
where I will sell it??
Is EBAY a market distortion? You bet I think it is!
Incidentally, ANYONE needing a DP-1, try KEH. There are a couple
presently listed . . . they are NOT $225 and you will NOT have to
snipe or deal with a total stranger with no guarantee or return
priviledge! As for my own experience . . . perhaps the $80 WAS an
especially good deal.
Perhaps too, there really ARE some bargains at ebay . . . they
continue to elude me however.
Signed: Chief "Chowderhead", who got his mint DP-1 for $80 from a
dealer rather than $225 from ebay (and NEVER uses bad language in
posts because his teachers and parents taught him better) . . .
Terry Danks
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
bbbean@beancotton.com (B.B. Bean) wrote:
At physical auctions in most cases you can examine the item. On the
other hand at an on-line auction in NO case can you examine the item.
Those are nearly polar opposites.
Risk can be managed, but with a physical auction the risk is generally
less, with the on-line auction as it is clearly more risky.
Of course some good deals can be found at an on-line auction. That
makes no statement about its being a risker market though.
I am not particularly concerned with honest sellers. What does
concern me is that the possibilities of fraud at an on-line auction
rise greatly.
Does your on-line seller really exist? Does your on-line seller have
one on-line 'identity' or many? In an on-line auction the identity of
the seller may well be unknown. It is popularly merely an e-mail
account. Physical address is unnecessary to EBay. It is easy for a
seller to assume multiple identities, run up a short history as
'reliable', and subsequently, defraud the next N buyers, skip to one
of their other identities and continue the practice.
Is it in such a seller's long-term interest to fairly represent their
merchandise? I don't think so.
If I deal in a place like Shutterbug, those terms and their
definitions are published and well known, both to sellers and buyers.
My expectation as a buyer that when a seller says LN that it means what
it says rises when both seller and buyer are playing off the same rule
book.
There is no such rule book for typical on-line auctions. This
necessarily raises the risk to the buyer and seller.
No, not never. But you have legal recourse if they knowingly do so
and in general you do have the ability to examine the merchandise to
minimize your risk.
An on-line auction house merely makes an electronic market and in no
way stands behind anything that they make a market for. In addition,
you cannot examine the merchandise before you bid.
Those are not auction houses.
I know of those caught in serious frauds who did research the seller.
Of what real worth is it to 'research' an identity that's only as
solid as an email account, where positive feedback comes from other
identities of equally verifiable solidity and where feedback is easily
fabricated?
Schemes like that on EBay for feedback PRESUME the honestly of both
seller and buyer. They break down quickly when that presumption is
wrong.
From: "Austin Franklin" darkroo9m@altavista.net
Personally, I believe you would be wrong for doing such. His comments here
have nothing to do with his being a good/bad seller/buyer on eBay.
Why would you want to open your self up to a feedback war, in which YOU
could loose your eBay account? In fact, he could have your eBay account
terminated right NOW just because you threatened him with leaving negative
feedback if he doesn't do what you want him to. You might want to read the
eBay rules on this....cause they do terminate accounts for 'feedback
threats'.
[Ed. note: just for fun - not advocating this, y'all ;-)]
Eva Farkas Piotrowski Esq. (lawyer4@idt.net) wrote:
Actually you almost have it right, but I think you want to SELL on
ebay first, and then let B&H; fill your order. Just make sure your
reserve price will cover the regular price (not grey market, in case
they are out), plus whatever you owe ebay, plus shipping (which your
buyer should pay anyway), plus a little mark-up for profit.
You might want to play it safe and actually own the item you are selling,
on of them, just so you don't get caught short. This whole idea is
similar to selling stock short, come to think of it. For all we know,
ebay prices may be getting run-up by people who are playing this game,
and are caught short tring to fill their order. :-)
I suggest you pick a Canon lens that is available in both consumer
and "pro" models - a 75-300mm USM lens will sell for more than the
b&h; price, easily (I have been observing this with amusement).
I guess that people are confused - they must be checking magazine
prices for 75-300L models.
--
From: "S. Ford" sford232@earthlink.net
I've purchased older Minolta equipment on ebay for cheap. I got an SRT-101
in fairly good shape with a 55mm lens for $35 , a 28mm MC lens in excellent
shape for $30. I think the inflated prices are mostly on newer equipment. If
you are looking for older, out of production equipment there are good deals
to be had.
From: edelman@cs.umbc.edu (Mitch Edelman)
...
The times I have skimmed ebay, I've noticed that the people who put
things up for bid generally have a higher opinion of their merchandise's
worth than the people who use bitnet news groups (e.g. rpm or the
aquarium.forsale groups). The occasional bargains on ebay, however,
aren't frequent enough for me, at least, to spend a lot of effort looking
there.
Ebay's value is that there is a lot of off-the-wall stuff there for the
on-line browser. It's more of a web-based flea market than a serious
photo store, and the shoppers seem to have a flea-market mentality.
Nothing at all wrong with that, as long as we know what the deal is.
For my money's worth, the place to shop for used photo stuff is still
rpm!
Mitch Edelman
From: rich garrett richg@scubaboy.com
there is a error in this logic. it takes TWO bidders to get the price
high on ebay. ebay uses a proxy bidder concept.
say someone puts an item That I JUST have to have (say that $300 N60) on
ebay with an opening price of $1.00. I really want to win this, so I shoot
the wad and bid $300. ebay proxy bids $1.00 for me. some other joker comes
along, sees my $1 and bids 2. my proxy, says to heck with you, and bids
2.50. outbids by minimum increment. so a really savy buyer comes along,
and says, N60 worth $200. bids $200.
my proxy bids $205. outbids by minimum increment.
if no one else bids I get it for $205.
it would take ANOTHER bid to get the price higher. to get to $300
someone else would have to bid $295.
The exception is reserve price auctions. As seller I set a minimum I will
take. I frequently do this for spendy items that I don't want to give
away. so same N60, but I the seller put a reserve of $225. ebay proxy will
go immediately to the reserve price if you bid over that amount. so my bid
of $300 would show up as a $225 bid, until someone else outbids me.
Of course this is where a shill works for the seller. he (she) can cause
the bidders bid to go up to the max bid. I suppose if the shill overbids
then the seller would offer you the deal as a failed auction. don't
really know, as I have never done this. I have also never been offered a
failed deal. but I have had deals fall thru, and queried the #2 bidder if
they werre interested. ususally not. took me a while to figure out why.
rich
Anders Svensson wrote:
From: "Eva Farkas Piotrowski Esq." lawyer4@idt.net
Online auction host eBay is under investigation by the New York
City Department of Consumer Affairs, as concern mounts among
regulators that auction sites could enable an unprecedented amount
of consumer fraud.
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C31380%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.ts3.0125
From: oldguy@home.net
NYC Dept of Consumer Affairs, after receiveing well over 1,000
complaints, has launched a massive investigation into tons of
allegations of wrong going. Complaints ranged from hundreds of
"shilling" accusations" to outright FRAUD. One investigator reported
how easy it was to "shill-up" an auctioned item. "Simply, he said"
just bid on your own stuff. Another way is bid on items from anon
email addresses or secondary addresses. It so simple , its scarry.
The big problem, however, is outright FRAUD. Everything from
misrepresentation to non-delivery is rampant on ebay. On, and On
and On goes the report.......Ebay has refused to comment to the proper
authorities so far.
From: cwood7000@aol.com (CWood 7000)
My experience on Ebay has been good. I've only had one piece moderately
misrepresented. There are some rules to follow when using EBAY.
1. Always check sellers record, if they have recently changed screen name
identities -- pass on them.
2. If the seller has a number of negative reports -- pass on them.
3. If you have questions, email them to the seller before you bid. If they
don't respond or respond slowly -- pass on them.
4. Always insist on using US Postal Money order. If fraud is involved
then the FBI/Postal Service can get involved.
5. Shilling could happen but if you know precisely how much you're willing
to pay then you can protect yourself. If individual comes to you after
the auction with some story regarding why winner didn't follow
through...offer to pay only what you feel item is worth...not what seller
is willing to sell it for.
There are probably other tips as well but on the whole, considering how many
hundreds of thousands of people have now used Ebay, it is still the best
auction site on the web, in my opinion.
From: danksta@ns.sympatico.ca (Terry Danks)
rich teach_sci@my-dejanews.com wrote:
There may well be people who are "sore" at ebay. I am not one of them.
I have bid on enough items to recognize that Yogi's maxim "It ain't
over 'til it's over." applies at ebay. . People have posted that other
forms of auction are time limited too. That is news to me but I yield
to their greater experience in the matter. It seems counterproductive
to cut off potentially higher bids at the bell though.
My opinion is that:
a/ prices at ebay are usually too high compared to dealers, for both
"gray" and for used equipment, i.e., B&H; and KEH,
b/ "sniping" is a virtual certainty in EVERY ebay auction
c/ even placing a bid at any time other than the closing minute is
counterproductive.
d/ the reserve price system virtually precludes the "bargains" that
people claim to be getting and offers an ironclad, risk-free
environment for the seller at the buyer's expense.
Those who would suggest placing a realistic bid as to the maximum they
are prepared to pay early on and letting it ride are not realistic
IMO. They WILL be sniped. If they bid say, $500, a sniper will bid
$550 in the last seconds and end up getting the item for say, $520
after the proxy does its bit. There seems no way of getting around
that. While you might have been unwilling to go to $550, you likely
would have gone to $520 to "win". I guess I feel the increments are
too small.
If shopping for stuff by hunching over your computer attempting to do
your own sniping, or defend your bid is what you enjoy, go for it. I
still play but don't expect much.
Some have expressed that there is a "flea market" mentality at ebay.
If this is so it seems confined to naive buyers to me. Many, likely
most, of the people selling photo gear there actually are dealers,
pure and simple. The reserve is set at the "real" selling price. If it
doesn't sell only the $2 listing fee is lost. If the item sells, it is
certainly likely the reserve was actually exceeded and this excess
represents pure gravy to such dealers. They can hardly lose. If they
can hardly lose, the corollary must be that the buyer can hardly win.
To think there are safer ways of purchasing equipment at established
and reputable dealers that are usually cheaper too does not mean that
people who are querulous of ebay's success are in any way "sore".
Ebay does offer a great selection of stuff . . . no doubt about that.
IMO, a listing service of used gear like that offered for used books
would be a GREAT idea . . . far better than ebay. Buying used books
from the likes of bibliofind is a far more buyer-friendly environment
than ebay. However sellers are doing so well at ebay, I don't suppose
they would be much interested in it. Ebay is for sellers and they love
it. The reason for that is pretty clear IMO.
Terry Danks
[Ed. note: an alternative? trade-fairs... - for a listing - see IMPACT Used Gear pages - under trade fairs]
While I have only two experiences of visiting camera trade fairs, I have
twenty five years experience of gun shows, and figure the same "rules"
apply.
DON'T GO THERE EXPECTING TO DUPLICATE ED'S EXPERIENCES!!!!! For every $150
Leica, there will be 50-60 $250 Rebel X's, Nikon EM's, Pentax K-1000's ("the
classic, not being made anymore , buddy!"), etc. The people that go there
are no dumber than you are, whoever you are, and aren't there to give away
their gear or bucks. Be ready to pay reasonable prices for desirable goods,
and don't blame anyone if you leave empty handed. Also, if you don't have a
thick skin, stay home. You'll be offered $150 for YOUR Leica, or whatever
the limit was on the offeror's ATM withdrawal that day, and your trade gear
will be insulted.
That said, I've found the camera shows (like the gun
shows)
a real goldmine of "junk and stuff". If you want filters, straps, books,
manuals, all the little goodies that are ancillary to the main event of
bodies and lenses, this is the place. I went to one and got a Canon strap,
lighting instruction book, enlarger, timer, trays, tongs, grain magnifier,
and an armful of other stuff for $110. Not to mention a lot of free
information as to what works with what else, tips on places to shoot, etc.
If you go with an open mind, and reasonable expectations, you' really enjoy
yourself. Good hunting .
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
(Jon Lebovitz) writes:
This brings up a good point...what is a warranty really worth?
The expected value of a warranty would be equal to the probability that the
item will require repairs during the warranty period multiplied by the amount
of money saved due to warranty coverage.
For example (I couldn't find data on camera equipment specifically but the
overall warranty return rate on all consumer electronics is around 2%),
lets say you are buying a camera for $400. If you assume that the camera
will be a total loss if it requires repairs (worst case) then the expected
value of the warranty would be 2% (0.02) X $400 or $8.00.
This means that if I could buy this camera new without a warranty for less
than $392.00, I should do it. Of course this only applies to brand new
equipment. With used equipment I would have to use some judgement in my
confidence that the item has not been abused.
For used late model equipment in mint or near mint condition I might look
to save 8-10% off retail to make up for my additional risk. Of course, I'm
trying to get a good bargain so I add another 10% so I can feel good about
buying used. So that means I might pay 80% of the best retail price new
for used equipment.
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
...
While I am a little envious at the general cost level of photo gear in
the US, I am surprised how high some used gear is compared to new.
To pay 80 % of the going rate for used gear, with no warranty and unknown
history seems too much. I don't think that a warranty on new gear can be
compared to a warranty on used gear because of this "uncertainty factor" -
the used gear has been around too much.
From other electronic stuff than cameras, it seems that as long as the
gear survives the first 30 days or so, things are allright, and the rest
of the warranty period is more or less risk free for the vendor *aside
from user induce d mishaps* - something that warranties shouldn't cover
but do anyway - to some extent. Perhaps they should, too, if the gear is
hard to handle correctly and you break something...
So simply stating that warranty is worth 2% is correct only from the
vendors poi nt of view - if that number is reasonably correct, but they
should know. For the customer, it is a lottery, with the camera at stake.
If the real warranty cost is just 2%, I think it is a bargain for peace of
mind for a whole year... :-)
BTW, I offer the 12% annual hardware service rate, traditionally applied
to computers, as an alternate number to dwell upon. I personally believe
that number to be more correct - but I could be wrong.
Anders Svensson
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999
Greetings;
I have read with chagrin all of the negative comments about eBay on this
list. One thing seems to be increasingly clear. The folks who are
yelling the most about the prices and all of the supposed shill bidding
on eBay, are the same people who are hurt the most by eBays sudden
growth. It's O K for them to sell a used camera at a profit, but no one
else can .The same good ole boys who get all of the good stuff first at
the Trade and Camera shows can't stand Ebay.
You all miss the point Ebay is suppose to be FUN.
I have been buying and selling on ebay for over a year now. I have had a
lot of fun, I think I got taken maybe twice. I bought enough gear to
start a wedding business for pennies on the dollar. And when I want to
get rid of something I can sell it for more on eBay that the Camera shop
will give me for it!! Hey it Works For Me.
dtighe@prodigy.net
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999
HI Robert,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I do aggree with some of what you are
saying. The point I was trying to make was that a lot of the gripes
about Ebay seem to be coming from folks who have been hurt by eBay.These
are the same people I would have bought a used camera from before eBay.
Therefore I think that their critism is one sided and biased. One
fellow who was yelping about how terrible eBay is has been buying and
selling cameras for years. He has a web-site that sells his books about
camera repairs. He claims to have made a fortune buying , fixing and
selling cameras. Than why is he so vehement in his protests about eBay.
Could it be that the market has changed, and he can't or won't adapt?
In any sale your most valuable tool is information.The more you know
about what it is you want to purchase, the better deal you can demand.
The problem with ebay is its rapid growth. Buyers have yet to hit that
learning curve. I am getting smarter everyday on eBay. Here is what I
have learned so far:
1. Don't buy a Vivitar 283 or any thing that a pro might have used. It
will be used up
2. If it says that it may not work, rest assured that it dosen't work.
3. Don't get into a bidding war, if that other jerk wants it that bad
let him have it.
4. There will be another of that "Hard to find" widgit listed tommorow!
5. Know what you are bidding on. Never pay more than 50% of retail
6. BID ONCE
7. Don't buy a Nikon, Lieca, Hasselbald,Bronica or any "Pro" equipment
on Ebay
8. Never spend more than $200 on eBay
9. If the seller has negative or no feedback,there is a reason, don't
bid !
10. Leave negative feedback.....That is the only way eBay will work!
I also think that the prices of so called "Pro" equipment is too high on
eBay.The well recognized names "Nikon, Canon" ect are driven up by
peoples perception of quality.Not by the actual New York street price.
Therefore eBay might not be the best venue to puchase that kind of
equipment.
I consider eBay a big electronic flea market....and I go to the flea
market to have fun.
Thanks
From: "Don" nospam@csi.com
But don't you see...the vast majority of those dealers now listing on ebay
have web sites also. You could have bought from their web site for X
dollars, but now that the same item is going on ebay...expect to pay X + Y
dollars for it.
I've reviewed serveral items on ebay, and then checked the web for dealers
with the same equipment. In EVERY case, I've found a dealer on the web,
selling the exact same item, for less than the winning bid on ebay. It just
takes a bit of time to look thru dealer's ads on the web. This is for used
equipment all in equivalent condition.
BTW, if ebay gets too many dealers, you'll find a flood of similar equipment
starting to show up, and the law of supply and demand will start to come
into play.....oversupply of "stuff" and undersupply of "buyers" and prices
will start to drop and/or reserves won't be met.
Don
From: classicvw@aol.com (ClassicVW)
The problem is as simple as this- If I buy from B&H; or KEH and I get it
and it doesn't work then I can return it!
I've received a broken camera from e-Bay, and been told by the seller- "Tough
shit."
George S.
From: Stafford@nova.winona.msus.edu (John J Stafford)
"B.B. Bean" bbbean@beancotton.com wrote:
I agree that we don't want to let others know what we are
willing to pay too early - on-line auctions are wholly different
than in-person auctions. Sort of a cross between real auctions
and closed bid auctions.
But how do you feel about automated sniping? There is software
which will dial in at an optimum time and make your bid, then
dial out (or rebid until the auction closes.) How about those
who dial in with two connections - one to constantly refresh
the pertinent item page and another to snipe the $ at the last
moment? I've been sniped to within 7 seconds of closing. I know
the guy was using two connections.
I'd think that eBay might consider restricting registered users
from having more than one concurrent connection, but that is hugely
problematic given the connectionless nature of the web.
In any event, over time I have found very few bargains on eBay,
largely due to my particular interests, and it is not really
cost-effective to spend a lot of time there.
From: nospam@imagina.com (Jan Steinman -- jan AT bytesmiths DOT com)
It seems to be a crap shoot on eBay. Know your prices!
A 135mm macro lens just closed at $410, which didn't even make reserve. A
month ago, one sold for $420, including an auto-extension tube worth about
$175! A week ago, one with a bellows didn't make reserve at $410, and I
emailed the seller and offered $425. I can easily sell the bellows for
$175 or so.
I've been tracking certain things for months, and there is easily a 30% to
50% range on many things, even in identical condition. Things that have
been available for a while drop in price -- "I'll just bid on the next
one." Something that hasn't appeared in a while goes for too much when it
finally arrives. Go figure.
--
From: "Charlie Parekh" cparekh@sprintmail.com
Here is a respone from an economist who does auction stuff when
I asked the same question.
_________________________________--
Some possibilities to explain your observations:
1. The so-called winner's curse. This can occur in an auction where you
have imprecise value for an object but, because people around you are
bidding high, you think the value is actually higher that you expected. So
you bid up too. To this you can add the psychological extra thrill that you
get from "winning" the auction as another factor that can drive up the
price. In these cases, the "winner" may be "cursed" by winning the auction
and paying more than the object is worth. I would guess that many people
are using ebay as rookie buyers (they haven't been in many auctions), having
a good time with the thrill of being in an auction, and ending up like this
(I will cite my wife and mother in law as a sample but if you tell them I
said so I'll have your knees broken).
2. The foreigners might have a tax and/or import fee angle. The tax status
in their home country may be different if they buy it on the auction versus
ebay. Or, they may not have to pay an import quota. If a lot of the buyers
were from a subset of countries, that might be a hint that this is an
important factor.
Hope this explains things (besides the stupid factor)
From: billda@West.Sun.COM.no.sp@m (Kill All Spammers)
ClassicVW classicvw@aol.com wrote:
You can ask for a serial number and check it at the Stolen Equipment
Registry at http://photo.net/registry/index.tcl (please use this list if
you have anything stolen). I know this is a fairly small list but at
least it's something. If they won't give you a serial number then don't
bid.
I regularly lose at auctions. I have some discipline about what I'm
willing to pay. I am amazed at how high some people set their reserves
and a lot of the people with high reserves do look like dealers but so
what? If I need something quick, I can call up Camera World or B&H; and
have it quick and easy. The whole reason for me to go to Ebay is to
get a good deal and if I can't get it, I don't worry about it. I have
noticed that a lot of the auctions with high reserves don't meet those
reserves. I've bid on the same item in different auctions a number of
times because of this. It's all just silly.
The thing that does annoy me about Ebay is that some assholes have been
using it to find email victims for their rediculous sales. One guy saw
me bidding on an N90s and decided to email me an offer of a MF-26 (I
already have one for my N90) at a grossly high price for a used one.
Another saw me bidding on a 50mm f/1.8E and emailed me trying to sell
one for the bargain price of $45 which is almost twice my high bid on
one of these of $25. They usually go for $35 or less on Ebay. As you
might guess from my usenet header name, I don't appreciate unsolicited
emails from people trying to sell me stuff. I think Ebay has to limit
who can see a bidder's email address to the seller in the given auction
only.
Stupid Bidder Auction of the Week:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item;=85419666
It's an AF Nikkor f/1.8 going for $137.50. This lens can be had new
with a USA FIVE YEAR warranty from Camera World for $92.99. The high
bidder will pay 48% more than Camera World's regular price. Actually
Camera World gives free shipping on web orders and the seller is asking
$6 for shipping so it's really $143.50 which is 54% more to buy used at
auction with no warranty and some risk than to buy new with warranty
and safety. I'd bet I can buy this lens much cheaper than $143.50 at
my local Ritz Camera; even with the 7.75% sales tax. The real funny
part is that for the auction to get this high, at least two bidders had
to be real clueless.
Hmmm, maybe I should send mail to the high bidder and offer them a
bridge I have for sale.... ;-)
--KAS
From: billda@West.Sun.COM (Kill All Spammers)
I've been looking for an MB-10 for a while now and have always been beat
and so I just thought I'd check out what they've been going for.
Note that B&H;'s grey market price is $129.95 with a B&H; one year warranty.
Out of 14 successful auctions in the last month, the lowest price that
an MB-10 has sold for is $110. That's about 15% savings. The highest
price is $137.50. That's 6% overpayment with no warranty. The average
price is $125.01, a mere $4.94 savings; less than 4%. Five went for
more than the B&H; grey market price and three more were less than $5
lower than the B&H; price.
It seems that there are a lot of people who want this item but don't
have any idea what the new with a warranty price is from at least one
reputable dealer.
--KAS
From: rnatrajan@aol.com (Rnatrajan)
Quite right. And it doesn't apply to camera stuff alone. Last month a catalog
on watches went for $99.00 on ebay and I got the same, new one fro Amazon.com
for $29.00!!!!!!!!!! Even the Gods are helpless against stupidity!
Ramsami Natrajan
From: Ron Marvin mmarvin1@san.rr.com
On the other hand, eBay can be a great place to sell your used junk and
get more that you possibly imagined that anyone would pay for it. I just
read in the local computer section of my newspaper about someone who had
a few garage sales to sell some old junk and make a few bucks. When a
lot of it didn't sell he decided to throw it all away until a friend of
his informed him of eBay. He decided to try it and ended up making
$3,000 on the "junk" that no one would buy at his garage sale. Keep this
in mind next time you have some old photo junk that you want to get rid
of. Sell it on eBay, what the heck, you might make enough to but
yourself a brand new Leica M6 TTL and a lens, if you are so inclined.
-Ron
From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
It seems that there are a lot of people who want this item but don't
have any
idea what the new with a warranty price is from at least one
reputable dealer.
An article in the NYTimes this week says that people buying on speciality
bid-type web sites pay even more than those on the generic auction sites like
ebay. Never can tell . . .
regards,
From: friesian@zoocrewphoto.com (Meghan Noecker)
myrle078@aol.com (Myrle078) wrote:
many offer 10 day returns - I have never had a problem with the
equipment I have bought. Also, I know the going prices and never bid
close to KEH's price. I wait for the good deals.
What are you talking about? Nobody has to give a credit card number.
Yes, sellers can, but they can also pay by check.
Also, most sellers can't accept credit cards anyway. I have never seen
a single item demand payment by credit card, so this is simply not a
problem.
Are 99% local stores with the highest prices around. I look sometimes,
but I still haven't found any ads from individuals.
no guarantees here either. Prices may be cheap, but you can't return
something to a garage sale.
I was trying to replace a camera last year in a hurry. I went to ever
15 pawn shops, and while I found the camera I wanted, they actually
had similar prices to the local camera stores. Some higher, some
slightly lower, but no warranty like the camera store.
These are more reliable, if you know which ones. For used equipment, I
will only use KEH. But I can usually still get better prices on the
newsgroups and on ebay. So I only use KEH for harder items to find,
and when I am in a hurry.
I can easily pick up good deals by waiting. If I don't need an item
right away, I don't bid high. Eventually one will come along. And
prices very by time of year. For example, during the summer, more
people are on vacation and fewer are able to bid. During tax time,
fewer people have money to spend. Right before christmas is not a good
time for buyers because people are shopping.
I won an auction a few weeks ago simply because I waited til the end
to bid. I had asked the reserve which was very low. The auction ended
very late at night, so by dot bidding high enough to make reserve,
most people simply didn't know how cheap this camera might go. I
waited until late, then bid $50 over the reserve, thus making the
reserve. Nobody else bid, so I paid the reserve, a very good deal. If
other people had asked the reserve, I probably would not have won.
I have bought and sold. I have had only 4 items go to really high
prices (all less than $100, but for that particular item, it seemed
high). Most items sell for far lower than the stores.
I think it also depends on what you want to buy or sell. I deal with
canon FD equipment, so the items are older, all used and discontinued,
and common. There are very few rare items, so you can see several A1s
each week, several AE1's each week, etc. So the prices don't go very
high. There's always another one coming along.
Meghan
From: classicvw@aol.com (ClassicVW)
As others pointed out, some dealers are listing items with reserves equal
to what their store ads advertise. So they can only win, and you can only
lose by dealing with them on EBAY.
I feel better and safer dealing with established dealers with known
reputations, return policies, and credit card buying protections.
Robert, I agree with your posting 100% (or is that 125% since we're
talking about e-Bay?) :) I've said exactly the same things, only to be
flamed by people exclaiming about the "great deal" they got there. The
last few items I purchased there came nowhere near the condition that was
stated. People are still paying top retail $ for a camera offered by
someone who has a feedback of 1500, who says in the ad, "while I have
never taken any pictures with this camera, it works well" (I, being a very
suspicious type, feel many items there may be stolen goods. Look at the
number of pawn shops selling items. And no guarantee, no recourse. It's
worse than buying a "sold as is" camera at a camera store for the same
bust-out retail price as one that's not "as is". At least if the camera
is broken, you can go back into the store and argue face-to face with the
seller. Where's the smarts in these e -Bay bidders???
Some things don't add up.
George S.
From: ark@aa.net (ark)
I just read a story today in the Seattle Times, about the fact that
internet commerce makes up only 5% of the business that credit card
companies do, but that internet commderce takes up 90% of customer
complaints to credit card companies.
Al
From: "Bob" desmobob@capital.net
Stan,
You've had some great luck. I just sent back an
"Excellent+" Nikkor 50mm 1.4 AIS with an oily, slow
diaphragm. It's the second "Exc" or better lens from
buyers with all positive feedback that I've had to send
back. I'm running more like 50/50 on "as advertised" "OK",
or "great deals" vs. "not as advertised," "unacceptable,"
and "returned, but lost shipping costs."
It certainly is an adventure...
Bob Scott
From: rnatrajan@aol.com (Rnatrajan)
Only this morning,I saw a Book: Wrist Watches, 1999 - a catalog of all
famous wristwatches, posted on eBay under 'ROLEX' for $51.00 and several
people bidding for it. As a matter of curiosity, I tried Amazon.com and
found the SAME book listed at $23.00, with 24-hour shipping!!!! How crazy
can people get? Why not try the obvious source of supply first, rather
than blindly chase after each other on eBay? And what is there to prevent,
once it is seen that several people are interested, from the original
seller bumping up the price by means of using e'mail addresses to which he
or she has access- ie., rigging the bids!!??Is there any safeguard against
this happening?
From: bagdovje@cobleskill.edu(John)
I am thinking about buying a Nikon SB-28 and it can be bought from B&H; for
$309 with the USA label on it($279 Grey Market). An SB-28 flash is up for
sale on EBAY and the high bidder, so far, is at $350 !!! This means that
someone is willing to pay $350 or more for it AND there is a second bidder
that placed a bid for $245. There is also a SB-26 going for $330 ? Granted
they are different flash with different functions such as a slave but
still $330 is alot of $$$ for a used flash.
If someone could please explain to me why people are buying a used SB-28 for
more than they can get a new one from B&H;?
Are people that stupid or am I missing something?
John
From: "B. Buckles" buckles@home.com
I think you got it right. I saw a 100 mm macro lens that said it could
be bought used in NY for $275 and the high bid went for over $400.
Bob
From: Stafford@nova.winona.msus.edu (John J Stafford)
rmonagha@news.smu.edu (Robert
Monaghan) wrote:
(Robert, your post ought to be a FAQ. Best post on the eBay thing I've
read.)
Excellent explanation. You have also brought up another point:
a suggestion on how to jam a bid by spewing the responder. 51 bids
is a real can-do for the person who knows how to bid without
using a browser. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take
before the method becomes well known enough that eBay has to
find a new way to control bids.
Indeed, and identifying those shills is difficult, but I think
it's a worthwhile effort. Some 'dealers' seem to have a pool
of cronnies who do exactly that for them.
From: ckross@enteract.com (Chuck Ross)
This is the actual definition of "sniping"; shooting a high bid a few
seconds before the end of the auction. Some online auctions (not Ebay) have
an answer for this by allowing competing runner-up bidders one extra bid in
a 5-minute time extension.
Bidders who are really quick on the keyboard with a cable modem and two
screens up can do this very quickly, and it's nearly impossible to
be the high bidder with this practice. It's not illegal...I've done
it myself, but that's what sniping is.
[Ed. note: Diana is a plastic rollfilm camera cost originally circa
$10-20]
I guess it's just like the 600mm APO Nikkor process lenses that go for $400
plus on ebay, that can be bought new at Sammy's for $250.
From: "don ferrario" don@ferrario.com
I recently bought a new Nikon lens hood
from B&H; for $18.
I ended up not needing the hood, so I
listed it on eBay. I listed a starting bid
of $1, with no reserve.
It brought $31. The interesting thing is that
there was another bidder who bid $30...
Maybe Henry Posner should just close the
store, and put everything on eBay...
--
From: Stafford@nova.winona.msus.edu (John J Stafford)
No. The more you become familiar with ebay and the trends, the
more it seems the same, with some 'apparent' fluctuations in
the prices of certain items, largely in the collectible category.
The "same" meaning people, usually new ones, paying far higher
prices than an experienced buyer.
For example, a chap who was buying all the EX+ and Mint Nikon
F motor drive equipment REGARDLESS of cost. He spent thousands
of dollars in six weeks, inflating the market temporarily. Then
he disappeared. Another new buyer in my mate's speciality; religious
items, came in and did the exactly the same - and went away
the same way. The market on those _particular_ items is settling
down now, but still selling for more than you can get them at
a good large city store.
The supply of new, uninformed, compulsive buyers seems quite large
and there is no sign that it will diminish any time soon.
BTW - SNIPING is getting _real bad_ and watch for a controvercial
selling approach soon. I plan to put something up for bids in a
manner which might just make some seasoned buyers go BALLISTIC.
It will be a SNIPE-PROOF auction!
(parker scott jeffrey ) wrote:
While it is risky to give an unqualified endorsement to any source,
I have found KEH Photo to be good for used equipment, provided you
know what you want.
From: "xa" xa@xa.net
Depending on what you want, ebay is the best.
Avoid ebay for:
-current model stuff of any description.
-Most parts which are available from B&H;
Use ebay for:
-5 to 20 year old camera gear in good but
not collectable condition.
-manual focus lenses of any manufacturer
-parts which B&H; does not carry, or for which
their price reflects a small, non-renewable
stock.
Be very concerned on ebay about:
-flashes. They're a high failure rate item
over time, so pulling one out of the closet
where it's been for 8 years and selling it
on ebay inevitably results in selling some
percentage of DOA stuff. Cameras and lenses
can stand 8 years in the closet a lot better
than flashes.
-claims of greatness from new sellers; "Mint +++"
might mean "looks pretty good, but needs new
foam".
-unrealistic hopes regarding merchandise sold
by old sellers. Long time sellers tend to describe
their merchandise accurately, but point out every
single good feature. Don't expect more than what
it says.
The ebay idiot list:
-low priced items with name brands, such as the $75-
$100 zoom lens used to put together packages. On
ebay these look like they should be worth $200, thus
seem a bargain at $125. In days gone by, instead of
a zoom one got a 50mm f1.8 lens cheap.
-Things with no obvious "intrinsic" value, but which are
available mail order. These tend to be lower priced
items such as lens hoods, focusing screens, or
LENS CAPS. (B&H; sells new genuine Nikon brand
lens caps cheap!)
-Things with a good "spec" but not a brand you've
ever heard of or know where to find anything about,
a brand B&H; doesn't sell, but where the seller
compares it to a brand B&H; does sell and claims
equal value.
-xa
From: kngharv@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Harvey H. King)
I think you guys should go a bit easy on those who are buying from Ebay.
About a month ago, I went to a local used photo equipment store. I saw
a very clean 85mm f/1.8 (non-D) Nikkor for sale.
The price tag on that lens is $350!!!!! I ask them how much lower
can they get, they told me they can go as low as $325. Remind you,
that on top of the price, I would need to pay a 7.75% sales tax on it.
Of course, the NEW, D version of the same lens at B&H; is $360, and the
grey-market version is $310!
I gave my offer: $200. They laughed at me. I told them the price which
the B&H; offers, they told me these mail order company is from different
planet, and can not be compared side by side. A week later, the lens was
sold.
So, I end up buying an used non-D lens from B&H.; The condition is not nearly
as clean, but I paid $175 + shipping instead of $325+7.75% tax.
Harv
From: billda@West.Sun.COM (Kill All Spammers)
s-parke@glibm21.ews.uiuc.edu
I haven't really noticed this. I have seen some good deals go through
but they are the exception rather than the rule.
John J Stafford Stafford@nova.winona.msus.edu wrote:
True.
True again. I get beat on almost always, usually by multiple bidders
bidding rediculous amounts for things. I have seen more items than I
care to mention go for more than B&H; new prices. I've also been sniped
so many times I'm starting to move into the "if you can't beat 'em join
'em" camp. I got an FT3 that way yesterday. I didn't put in my real
maximum bid until 4 minutes before the auction closed. If it hadn't
been a relatively old item that needed foam I don't think I would have
even gotten that.
I think I got to this point a week or so ago when at the last hour of
an auction in which I was the only bidder there were 4-5 bids by one
damned bidder before he got over my maximum. He won and he and I were
the only ones who bid on the item.
Yeah. I've noticed one particular dealer on Ebay lately who puts new
prices up as minimum bids on items. I sent them mail asking why anyone
would get into an auction where the lowest possible price was the same
as buying new without auction and I got a smug reply. I guess they're
betting on bidder stupidity. They're probably correct about that
though the item I actually sent mail about got zero bids and is back
again, reduced by $4.50 (which is still high IMO).
That will be interesting. How do you make it snipe-proof? Ebay
doesn't really discourage it. In fact, the system encourages it. If
you get into a bidding war, egos will get some people out of control
and the price is sky high before you know it. If you just hang back
and wait until the end, you've got a better chance to get it for your
original maximum; provided there aren't two others that decide to get
into a bidding war.
--KAS
From Nikon Mailing List:
Hi Nikon Fans,
I have heard so much about eBay from the Nikon Digest, so I gave it a try.
There's what I found :
Dealer 1 : Stated camera and lens is 9+++, no scratches, no dents, only
slight rub marks on the camera base plate. Here's is the actual condition -
scratches and rub marks on EVERY surface, including front element of the
lens, a dent near the winder, several 4mm spots painted over, meter doesn't
work. When I complaint, he gave me a negative feedback, saying I was
untrustworthy !!! This guy a cheat and a liar.
Dealer 2 : Someone outbidded me at the last hour. Then the seller offered me
to buy the camera and lenses as he rejected the high bidder because of
previous negative feedbacks. I told him to put the package back on eBay, so
if things go wrong, I could leave a negative feedback on him. Again I was
outbidded at the last hour (this time at a much lower bid). Then seller
offered me to buy the package the second time as the high bidder made the
wrong bid. I got suspicious and checked all the seller's past dealings. He
had a 26 star rating, all selling cheap stuff (under $25) and the buyers all
had positive ratings only from him. This is a gang of crooks.
Dealer 3 : Excellent and friendly sale on a Nikon F2 Tie clasp.
Dealer 4 : Excellent and friendly sale on a F2AS manual.
My conclusion is that there are some honest people on eBay, but there are
some crooks as well. My advise :
1) Beware of first time sellers.
2) Avoid sellers with negative feedbacks. Check with previous buyers if
possible.
3) Check previous sales from the seller. Is he a camera dealer, or a Beanie
Baby seller ?
4) Don't trust the star rating of the seller. He could have been selling
just pencils for all you know.
5) Contact the seller before making a bid and get a gut feeling first.
6) Don't trust an email address with **@aol.com as there is no way of
tracing him if thing sgo wrong (Can someone confirm this ?)
7) Never buy anything after the aution if the high bidder drops out for ANY
reason.
8) Try to pay only by credit card.
9) Don't believe any item is mint. (For me, mint is used once or unused.)
10) Set a maximum price that you want to bid. Don't go mad at the last
moment.
11) Leave a strong negative feedback if things go wrong.
Hope this helps.
Happy and save bidding,
Sover
From: "Kirk Darling" darlings@ix.netcom.com
I presume you're talking about a loss of several hundred dollars. Why would
you send several hundred dollars to some private individual you'd never met?
Would you have done that in response to a classified ad in a newspaper?
eBay provides information on using an escrow for large sums. This should be
obvious for any adult who's spent any time in the real world. Sheesh.
From: benchr@teleport.com (Ross Bench)
Feedback does not indicate a good person...
I got stiffed by a guy with 349 positives.
eBay will do nothing...
Until there are a substantial number of complaints against
a person committing mail fraud the US attorney will not
prosecute...
From: "Moreno Polloni" mp@lightstream.ca
Ebay insurance is only good for qualified items up to $175. Beyond that, it's
your loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999
Dear LUGGERS,
Sadly, after buying 2 years from ebay, I encountered my first "scam".
Fortunately, its only about US$45. The description of condition was not
honest. The projector lens was suppose to be in perfect condition but
instead I got one that is mouldy, has one finger print and the glass is
chipped.
I have given the seller about 2 months to response to me but he hasn't. I
wrote to ebay yesterday seeking their advise. They wanted me to submit a
hardcopy report to National Fraud Information Center and then copy to them
before they commence any investigation. Alternatively, I can issue a
negative comment on the ebay to warn the rest. I am still considering if I
should go thru the trouble. Ebay could do better than that.
On the whole, I have purchased over 60 items without any issue and have
made scores of friends. Most of the items were purchased at prices better
than dealers. To be fair, ebay has been a good source of Leica items for
me BUT BUYERS MUST BEWARE!!!
In my case, the seller had about 40 good comments but 4 negative. So, is
he consider a reliable person judging from his 36 net good comments???
Personally, in future, I advise anyone not deal with sellers that has any
bad comments at all.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999
I too had a "negative" experience in regards to a eBay item. Luckily it was
a low priced item and the lens still functions okay. The lens had suffered
impact damage and was fixed with a plier as evidenced by numerous pin points
in the barrel adjacent to the filter ring. The barrel was also pained to
cover any brassing. The lens also had numerous "cleaning" marks on the
front element and two scratches on the back element. The descriptions made
no mention of any of the above items and the seller said I should of asked
before bidding. He did say that it was in excellent condition with nice
glass. Now if someone tells me that the lens is in excellent condition and
nice glass, why would I ask him if the lens was ever dropped! Or why would
he say nice glass when it has numerous cleaning marks and scratches. He did
offer me a return, but I would have lost more than half of what I paid in
fees and such. He also said that I got a good deal, so why complain.
The moral of my long story. Ask as many questions as possible, especially
if a photo is not included with the item. I don't have to say it but,
cosmetic (and apparently optical) condition ratings are very subjective.
Don't ever ASS-U-ME anything.
Thanks for reading and I am still looking for a M4-P or M6 body. Please
reply to me privately (for both subjects) as I sometimes don't have time to
read the Leica Users Digest.
Mahalo, Thomas ttamura@aloha.net
From Koni-Omega List:
What John has mentioned does occur, but probably not as often as many would
think. I have sold over 1500 item since February. Almost all were
new-in-box merchandise from our family specialty retail store. I have also
bought and sold (keep the best, sell the rest) Koni-Omega and Mamiya
equipment. In any case, I try hard to describe everything in detail to
eliminate problems. I did not always get my original investment out of my
Koni-Omega equipment. Maybe I am just a good guy :o)
On the other hand, I received a RB67 Pro II manual today when I was actually
expecting a Mamiya 7 manual. I like to rent equipment, but no dealer
provides you with manuals. One seller has taken my money for a book on
George Hurrell, but in reality may have just reposted the item because my
price was too low. There are a bunch of people selling photographs from
"vintage" photographers that appear to be printed just yesterday. I have
contacted eBay regarding what I consider copyright infringement, but the
company did nothing.
Carl
From Koni-Omega Mailing List:
1,500 ITEMS would be correct (between 50 to 70 items per week, sometimes
more). It should be much more except our 17-year old assistant bailed out
on us last week. He has been very ill this summer ;o) Get a car, find some
girls and stop working.
For everyone's benefit (since list members have always been very helpful)
here are my rules:
eBay is the way to go based on market share. Do not use reserve amounts (it
costs you more); instead use starting bids that would make you happy if you
sold it that price (more equals gravy, but do not be greedy with the
starting amount). If the item does not sell relist (90 percent of our items
sell within two cycles). Focus on listing items on Friday and Saturday
nights between 8:30 and 10:00 Central (9:30 and 11:00 Eastern) to obtain
maximum exposure. Eastern time zone sellers often forget that buyers in the
Pacific zone are still at work when they get home at 6:00! Provide very
detailed descriptions. In the description line use some thing like: "Leica
V35 Color Autofocus w/ 40/f2.8 NIB" (NIB, Mint, etc improve your chances of
being seen). It is best not to bundle items. I recently saw a KO complete
outfit (all four lenses plus manual, cable release,flash bracket, etc)
closing during the day for $800, which was almost a good price for the 135mm
lens alone. For specific questions, please feel free to contact me at:
wegerer@flash.net
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999
Valuations...
It appears that items sell for about 70 to 80 percent of what a used photo
equipment dealer sells it for. My guess is that 70 percent is a good
starting point. You have just cut out the middle man and made some more
money.
From: two23@aol.com (Two23)
I think most of the hostility is from people who don't understand that the
2nd place bidder sets the winning price, and that the winning bid will always
be $1 or whatever the increment is over the second place bid.
Be that as it may, it still doesn't refute my contention that eBay is a
major waste of time for someone looking at it as a prime source of used
gear. Considering the hours that it eats up per successful transaction, I
figure that I would be better off working those hours on my job. This
would generate enough paycheck to often just buy a new item. EBay is more
like a hobby than a good place to count on getting something.
Kent in SD
From: steelydan@bigfoot.com (Donald Fagen)
Is this a reflection of what the item is *worth* or merely what a
local shop would like to get for it, perhaps from an unknowledgable
buyer?
Probably true.
Yes,no doubt. But unfortunately (for you) the people interested in
these items (like yourself) do know what they are worth. Therefore,
the bidding system (and Ebay's in particular) protects the seller to a
limited extent. You are not likely to get the item for the song the
seller is "willing" to sell it for, because another buyer is willing
to pay three songs for it.
The price swings on Ebay seem weird. I was outbid on a Mat on which I
had a top bid of $105. The next week one with virtually identical
description sold for $60, a LM sold for cir. $80 and an EM cir. $105.
One unit (an EM?) with case, original flash, close up and tel. lenses
and lens case sold for $105. I am very glad that I got outbid. I
found a local dealer who will sell, CLA and warrant for 60 days an EX+
124G (my choice of several or one 124) for $160. Yes, I paid tax
($10.) but no shipping. The extra $50 is well worth the guarantee,
the ability to inspect first, a person to talk to and a place to
return it if not satisfactory. OH, and the built in Cds meter, 220
compatibility, 15 years fewer use and the potentially better mechanics
(optics/shutter).
OTOH, I have made some wonderful purchases on Ebay. $2 for a
replacement remote for my Olympus 330 ZLR and $32 (have seen on Ebay
for slightly less since) for OM-10 manual adapter (I returned one
purchased for $73 from Adorama the day before). Ebay is great for
hard to find items of little interest to many. But I recently
concluded that it is of no value to pay 85-90% (and certainly not
100+%) of what the item is otherwise available for. How many times do
you have to be ripped off or have the item misdescribed (even in good
faith) to eat up your savings?
From: liquidg@webtv.net
What people seem to be forgetting is that we are now in a global market
on the internet. And this market is run on supply and demand. The
prices will go as high as people are willing to pay. If enough of the
buyers are not familiar with the current going price, DON'T BE SURPRISED
IF THAT PRICE GOES UP.
After all, Why do people sell things on the internet? Because they
think they can get more money for the item with less work than if they
try to sell it in their little corner of the world. And they are right.
For instance, I worked for a man here in a small town in texas who pack
ratted photo junk for YEARS and sold it for very modest profits to
people here and surrounding areas. HE"S MAKING A KILLING NOW ON E-BAY.
sometimes up to 50 TIMES what he payed for it.
The internet is a marketing miracle, and auctions have always played to
the Greed, competitiveness and vanity of people. The only way to
protect yourself is to educate yourself.
I'LL STEP OFF THE SOAP BOX NOW.
But these guys at B&H; and there friends are not stupid. They are
watching what things are going for on auction. EVENTUALLY they will
ask why they should "sell it to you for that price, when we can get
more on E-Bay." After all, that IS the going price.
If you would search ebay items you should type
"(konica,koni,rapid) (omega,omegon,omegaflex,press)"
(means without "") in the search field to get all Konis.
Regards, Peter
From: "Earl Fieldman" efieldman@anywehere.net
I've bought about 25 cameras on eBay, and
about 125 "things" total.
No flat out rip-offs. Not one.
That's the good news.
On the downside, 8 of those cameras had serious
undisclosed defects which I confronted the sellers
over. All transactions were eventually resolved.
Problems include a camera which flat did
not fire, a totally dead camera + rusted up lens
sold as "used", a pulled-out tripod mount described
as a "ding", an 8008 which was noisy as hell and
had likely been exposed to extreme heat, and misc
stuff which simply should have been disclosed.
We're not talking cosmetics here. Again: all
sellers eventually made peace--although the
8008 seller pleaded poverty to delay paying
the $150 I agreed to accept for fixing the 8008
and two noisy lenses.
3 of them had undisclosed defects which I swallowed,
but lived to regret. The worse was an FE described
as "mint+++" which drastically needed a $90 foam
job /CLA (it did have excellent cosmetics).
5 or 6 of them had undisclosed defects which I
swallowed, and did not regret, mostly because they
were good enough buys to cover over the problem.
Broken eyepiece threads are the most common on
this list, a real problem on some models, and easy
for a seller to "overlook".
You see the problem. Well over half of these cameras
had undisclosed defects, and nearly half of them required
a confrontation.
1 of them was in better condition than I had any
right to expect, and a couple were pleasantly
at the high end of my expections.
Feedback generally works with respect to sellers,
less well with respect to buyers. You can bet I'd
leave negative feedback for a bad seller, but I
let the occasional deadbeat buyer go.
A seller with a 3 months of good / zero negative
feedback highly unlikely to be a crook.
If you do get a camera with undisclosed defects,
give the seller a chance to make it right. Most
of the sellers I confronted honestly had no idea
that the camera was defective: they sell "stuff",
they don't really know what they had...but they
fixed the deal real quick when notified. That's the
good thing with 100+feedback sellers, they
don't, in my experience, play any poverty games
when it's time to pay you back. Ususally a cash
settlement makes sense for both the buyer and
seller.
Earl F.
.....
From: eosman@aol.com (Eosman)
...
Most sellers on ebay are honest. Steps to take to protect yourself:
1) Contact the seller before bidding to make sure their representation of the
condition of the camera agrees with your interpretation (Does your
understanding of what "mint" means agree with theirs?). If you get no
response, or if the response seems to dodge around your questions...don't
bid.
2) Buy current model equipment. Its likely to be newer and seen less use.
Older cameras have problems (that may not be apparent) that are a result
of age such as light leaks, dried up lubricants, inaccurate shutter
speeds, etc.
3) Check seller's feedback. Seller's with good feedback (8-10+) are probably
reliable.
4) Check the seller's recent purchases. You may find that the item you
are looking at was just won at auction a few days ago by the seller. This
could be an indication that there is something wrong.
5) Ask the seller if there is an inspection period during which you can
return the camera for a full refund if it is defective or not in the
condition described. If the seller does not allow inspection they may be
hiding something. Don't bid.
6) In terms of escrow service. Most sellers would probably agree if the
camera costs $5000. Most will probably not want the hassle for a
$200-$500 item. Don't assume the seller will be willing to use escrow.
Ask before bidding.
7) Don't send anyone money you can't afford to lose. Any time you send money
to someone you don't know there is risk. My experience is that if you are
careful, the risk through ebay is minimal.
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999
One seller on Ebay had the guts to list the reserve on a 50 mm wide angle
lens for the Mamiya Universal Press. The reserve was 500.00! Now what is the
point of bargain hunting on ebay when you have situations like this. This
item usually goes for between 350.00 and 450.00. This seller is saying I want
the money, no bargains! For those of us that are professionals and know true
pricing, these people are a joke! Also notice when sellers break up camera
systems into individual components. They obviously want to sucker people into
a rip-off.
Ed Leskin
From Manual Nikon Mailing List:
Hi Ben,
You might try waiting till January or early February. The pre-christmas
buying spree tends to drive up the prices of a lot of things and inevitably
people overspend. that means in January a lot of guys will be dropping off
their much loved cameras to places like Ebay, KEH, Pawn shops etc. Nobody
has muchg money to spend at this time of year, so demand is low. I get my
best camera bargains each year by waiting till this time; for me santa
comes a little late ;-)
...
and then there is the dreaded message from EBAY:
** Our Site Is Temporarily Unavailable **
We are sorry, but our site is temporarily unavailable. We are working to
bring the system back up as quickly as possible.
Please check the Announcement Board at
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtml for updates. We will keep you
posted as work progresses. We apologize for the inconvenience and
appreciate your patience.
Regards,
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999
Well, I just got skunked twice on eBay. The bidding has gotten a tad
outrageous recently. After an approximately 8-month hiatus a couple of
neat things have come up. First, this evening I bid on another binocular
mag. hood for occasional use ( my current one is NIB). I placed a bid
within the relative comfort zone of T minus two minutes. Two champs beat
me out with something like 9- and 2- seconds to go. Secondly, I bid an
outrageous amount for an NIB front case cover with hump. This was the
first I've ever seen for sale in my nearly two years of Rollei-itis. I
was beat out with seconds to go at just under 200USD. It was a nutty bid
as someday I'll come across one in one of those ubiquitous camera shop
everready case buckets for 3.00. It just that it was new and I've been
off my medication. My wife is dosing me daily with a Rollei-specific
antibody but I still cannot control the cravings. BTW, I just thought
that one of you may know what happened to all of those prism-hump fronts.
Maybe the customer realized how inane it would be to carry both prism &
TLR in one case, or?
Regards to all. Peter Mattei
From Rollei Mailing List:
Sophisticated bidders use a technique called "sniping", which means very
simply to show no interest in an item until the very last minute and
then submit the max you're willing to pay. This avoids giving other
potential bidders any indication that what is being auctioned is any
good. When people see an item with a lot of bidder interest they tend
to take a second look and bid themselves. There are specific software
packages designed to make sniping automatic so you don't have to be at
the computer during the last 30 seconds of bidding.
One of the big problems with Ebay is that this technique works. It
works because auctions have a definite end time. If they changed the
rules to offer an electronic "going, going, gone" time extension,
sniping would be eliminated. If the rules extended an auction for, say,
one hour after the last bid, the sniping stuff would be eliminated.
I've had good luck selling things, and buying things. And some bad luck
too. I've got a camera on there now that doesn't look like it will
bring nearly what it is worth. So, if it doesn't sell I'll keep it for
a while and try again.
"R. Peters" wrote:
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999
By now I've read the other responses to this. I've successfully
bought small items (filters, hoods, books) through ebay. I was
outbid for a panoramic head in the last 25 seconds, and I think it
went for $39.00 -- far less than any I've seen in camera ads.
Since mid-September I've been using a spreadsheet to track all
Rollei TLRs on ebay that have "Rolleiflex" in the heading, i.e. I
made a conscious decision to ignore "Rollei," "Rolleicord" and
"Rollieflex" (sic) for this project, because there are just too many of
them. I look at them, but I don't track their progress. I wanted to
see if there were genuine bargains, with an eye to perhaps bidding
on a camera myself. IMHO, there's little point in buying something
on ebay that's not a bargain or very hard to find otherwise. If you're
going to pay a dealer price, then you may as well go to a dealer or
at least to a show where you can examine the camera. Virtually
all Rollei TLR models have been offered on ebay during this time,
and for most models you have your pick. Some cameras are
offered over and over again, never meeting the reserve, and it's
obvious the sellers will never set a reserve that typical members of
this forum (knowledgeable as they are) would be willing to pay.
Ignore those cameras. Establish your personal maximum price,
and if you fail to win one camera, another of the same model in
similar condition will show up soon
From: "Earl Fieldman" sg49@altavista.net
I don't do either Grafmatic or 4x5, but I do do Nikon. Here's the
observation.
Prices have risen since a year ago.
They've risen a lot in some cases. Example, the AIS 85/1.4 lens was
selling $350-$400 a year ago. Today, you can't get one under $600.
They've fallen in some very specific cases with good reasons: the
70-210 zooms have fallen due to the exceptionally competitive
70-300 zoom available brand new for $280.
I think eBay has attracted people "back to photography" (or
at least photographic equipment). There's more people doing
it today, because the cost of ownership has fallen dramatically
even as the prices have risen. Buy it, try it, sell it, break even
is a very realistic scenario. You couldn't do that before eBay.
Earl F.
From: LoveThePenguin dpcwilbur@my-deja.com
Patience, a virtue, has that wonderful side-effect.
I've got coming a Sears/Tokina 80-200/4 zoom for my son's birthday next
month. Got it for $40 -- at least $30 less than other ads for the same
item. The reason is that this ad gave only rudimentary info about the
lens and very few knew what it was -- one of the nicest 80-200 lenses
available -- a good buy @ $80, really good @ $40. My son will be as
pleased as my wallet.
Date: 26 Jan 2000
If you're looking to buy new or current model stuff like a Nikon F5 at
eBay you can forget it. You're better off buying new at a real shop.
The best bargains come on the days when eBays search engines are acting
up. The database doesn't keep current and the items are very often
"hidden" or missing from a page (study the hours/minutes when the item's
auction is ending - huge gaps some days). I picked up a beautiful lens
for only $47. that usually costs about $200. to $250. through Shutterbug
sellers.
You've got to wait for those days when eBay's web servers are lethargic.
AF.
From: "SF4" sf4@notreal.net
David Foy wrote
Foy's described technique seems to occur even
"by accident" when seller is using a shill account
to bid up an item.
Seller, using shill account, sets out to bid up item.
Seller is very pleased watching shill account get
outbid at higher and higher prices, until, shocked
and amazed, seller looks at the shill account report
saying "you are the high bidder".
Seller got just a little too greedy.
Now what?
Seller leaves the bid in place for a while, hoping that
someone will outbid, but, with the end nearing, seller
is becoming concerned.
Seller cancels the bid, which, by either fortune or
good planning on eBay's part, cancels ALL of shill's
bids, and the bid drops back to where shill started
out. Seller looks over the situation. Bummer. Price
is way down. But, AH HA. Now we know what the
limit is on real buyer's bid. Now, the plan becomes
clear. A new shill account bids the price back up to
just under what buyer was willing to pay.
Defense: As a buyer, I cancel all bids exposed by
another cancel. Always. And I refuse to honor
auctions where my high bid has been exposed near the
end of the auction by a cancel. It's easier to have
such a policy than to accuse seller of being a crook.
It's easier to complain about exposed bids, a
patently true case, as compared to proving who did
it or why.
I've been "taken to eBay" over this policy, and eBay
backed me up.
sf4
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999
Sofjan sofjan@aol.com wrote:
I got auction jazz which is actually an interactive web site and
although the system has been down twice for a few hours in the past
month, I have already won nine auctions as slick as snot on a doorknob.
The web site is called bay-town and cost 14.95. No complaints here.
[Ed. note: can you beat this? ;-)]
Rollei TLR Neck Strap - sold for $123.50 on Jan. 17, 2000
Rollei TLR leather neck strap. This has the V clips and fits all newer
TLR cameras. The strap is in very nice
usuable condition. Just light wear and no problems. Please add $5.00
shipping in the USA. Regards, Darryl
Schaeffer Member: Leica Historical Society.
PS: if you need a TLR strap, see our notes for a $2 alternative... ;-)
From Rollei Mailing List:
Although eBay has driven up the prices on popular cameras like Rolleis,
Leicas, Nikon rangefinders etc., It has lowered the prices on a lot of
less known (to the general public) cameras. For example, the Minolta 110
SLR, Mark 1, regularly sells on ebay for less than half of McKeown's
price. I've got a couple of nice little 127 folders that sell there for a
lot less than I paid for them several years ago. I'm sure there are a lot
more examples of cameras going down in price because of eBay.
Terry
From Koni Omega Mailing List;
I have had the same problems with eBay especially lately. Bought a 180mm
lens and found when I received it that the diaphragm didn't close. I talk
to the guy I won it from and he says it worked fine before he sent it.
Greg Webber says somebody opened it up and played with the shutter. Now
$140 later I have a lens that works. I think I will be dealing more with
reputable camera stores and paying more but getting a product that works
or I can return it.
....
From Koni Omega Mailing List:
Carl,
I have found two simple rules to follow when buying on eBay. First,
use e-mail to ask the seller detailed questions about anything not covered
in the ad. A good first question to ask a photo-knowledgeable person is,
"What about this item would keep you from describing it as mint?" Second,
make sure you can return it within 7 or 10 days if the item is
misrepresented (or if you're not satisfied). Consider too that not all
eBay sellers are as knowledgeable about their merchandise as you are, so
they may in all honesty misrepresent or omit some crucial detail because
they don't know it's important or don't recognize it as being a problem.
In about 30 eBay transactions, the people I have dealt with have all been
great, and more than fair. I had to send back two of those items, each
costing several hundred dollars. In both cases, the sellers apologized
profusely (though they were not at fault) and refunded my money, including
shipping.
Of course, when using my approach, the burden is on you to ask enough
questions to assure a good purchase. For a camera, you want to know
whether the aperture works and whether the slow speeds seem accurate, but
if the seller has advertised that it takes sharp photos, you don't need to
ask whether all the lens elements are present.
When a seller has described his item thoroughly, I don't ask any questions
at all. No need to bother if he has already answered my potential
questions in a well-written ad. I buy via eBay without reservation, but
with forethought and common sense. Keep both eyes open, and if you don't
like the tone a seller uses in answering your questions, back off and wait
for another Super Widget to come along. Sooner or later, it will.
From Rollei Mailing List;
Donald,
the Rolleikin came in many flavors, and for those cameras with a built in
Rolleikin counter (e.g. 2.8F) even a Rolleikin without the counter really
is complete!
You just gotta ask, especially when buying from US-sellers!
When buying cameras that use(d) batteries never ever do forget to ask
the question if the battery compartment is ok, or filled with remains of
dead/leaked batteries. In case you forget, after the deal you'll get the
answer "Well, you didn't ask THAT, and from the outside the camera
is excellent!"...
Jan
....
From Rollei Mailing List;
Personally, I LOVE eBay!
But I only use it to sell stuff, not to buy. My profile on eBay shows
100% buyer satisfaction with some going out of their way to praise my
way of selling.
But don't forget that a seller can get ripped off, too. I sold a lens
on there last year. The guy called his credit card company and said
it was defective and they did a chargeback on my account and took the
money. Meanwhile he filed with the Post Office, had the lens repaired
(apparently it was damaged in transit), collected from the Post Office
for the repair and kept the lens.
I disputed this and they put the money back, and then three months
later they took it out of my account again!!! I had to get him to
write a letter to his credit card company saying he no longer disputed
the charge and they put the money back, but I have no way to protect
myself from them raiding my account again, so I had to shut down the
account and open a new one. Each time they took the money out of my
account my bank charged me a $ 30 processing fee, so no matter what
else I am out $ 60.
So, like everything else there are two sides to the eBay story.
Bob
From Rollei Mailing List:
It's not a question of paying too much, it'a question of getting exactly
what is being advertised.
I once bought an "almost mint Rollei TLR with a smooth shutter" on Ebay.
When I advised the seller, a California camera store owner, that the
shutter was stuck his reply was. "I didn't know that you were actually
going use this old camera". Seller offered a Rollei lens cap in
compensation!
A "truly mint" Ricoflex bought on Ebay had paint spot with bare metal
showing. Seller's reply : " I was referring to the film chamber and the
lens". Even though mint means 100% original finish, some sellers have
other definition. Seller took back the camera and refunded in full.
A relative bought on Ebay a Nikon 135mm lens with "mint glass". It had a
most visible scratch on the front element. Even though the seller offered
to take it back, it was a loss of time and money: shipping fees not
refunded.
All these sellers had 100% positive feedback. So, "Ya takes yer money and
ya takes yer chances"
.....
From Rollei Mailing List:
In my experience, often when an Ebay seller says MINT, they could just as
well be indicating their prefered flavor of Nicorette. While any Ebay
purchase is something of a gamble, it pays to take the time to look over
the seller's feedback. It also doesn't hurt to email the seller and ask:
"MINT!?, you mean this forty year old item looks and operates JUST LIKE it
left the factory?" If you haven't done your homework on these purchases,
then you should be willing to accept some of the responsibility for your
disappointments.
Regards,
From Rollei Mailing List:
Let me add that in a high value transaction (that's over $1,000 for me) I
always insist on using an escrow service. This allows me to see the goods
prior to the release of the funds to the seller. It costs a bit but for
the peace of mind it buys I consider it cheap.
David Seifert
From Rollei Mailing List;
My addiction to photo equipment is currently in remission, but my rule
when I used to buy and sell stuff on photo.marketplace was to always have
the address and phone number of the other party, and to make it a point to
call them.
You can tell a lot about a person with a single phone call. I never got
stuck, and had some really interesting conversations.
David
From Rollei Mailing List;
This has happened to me. I suggest keeping track of the top bidders
when the auction nears its close and if the winner renigs, you can
contact the next highest bidder. I've had successful sales to the
next highest bidder when the top bidder didn't follow through.
So far as I know, eBay does not expect you to pay any percentage on
failed sales. Just the basic listing fee.
Bob
----------
From Rollei Mailing List;
--- CLARINETJK@aol.com wrote:
Yes, and the facts that most bidders don't know
the market or, more likely, what the hell they are
bidding on. Classic case: A Konica S2 with (get this)
a zoom lens (25-400), auto-load, etc. Any one with a
half a brain would know from the photo included that
the camera obviously is a rangefinder with fixed lens
from the late 60's to the 70's sans auto-anything
except auto-exposure. So... what happens? It went for
over $100 US. I would imagine the buyer was a bit
disappointed. This phenomenon is occuring with greater
and greater regularity when it comes to Rollei and
Zeiss stuff. Ridiculous bids for obviously broken or
less than mint examples. Would you pay $158 US for a
malfunctioning Rolleicord 1a? Especially with a
torn-up body that no amount of "reconditioning" will
ever be able to hide? AND a lens described as "hazy,
maybe some fungus". Its bad enough when marginal
equipment goes for the price that I would be paying a
dealer who has a near-pristine example, but broken?
Read the listings regularly and you will see many
cases of this same thing. After reading them, follow
the final selling prices. They're ridiculous. Maybe
another explanation can be offered?
Jon
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000
Prices fluctuate a lot, for unpredictable reasons.
I bought 2 very good 124-G's, extremely good users but not mint, on eBay
within the last two months for $110 and $120. Each time it was during one
of those weeks when there were a lot of posts here about absurdly
expensive 124-G's. High eBay prices for 124-G's over the last month or so
have been under $300, which is relatively normal, but that is for mint
cameras with cases and accessories, sometimes original boxes etc. I
suspect that, overall, eBay selling prices in the past three months have
tended lower than the first part of 1999. There are more good TLRs selling
in the $100-$175 range now than previously, and about as many mint cameras
going for premium prices. Also, more Autocords and Diacords are coming up
for auction than in previous years, which is very welcome.
Prices for plain Yashica-Mats, non-Gs, have, if anything, gone up a
little. That is sensible because the surge in interest in the metered
models left these very good little non-metered cameras undervalued.
The advertised asking prices in Shutterbug continue to be very high when
they appear, which is not often.
I'm not sure how much impact the Internet newsgroups (like this one) have.
Only about half of North Americans are on the Internet, and not all of
them surf the newsgroups, and not all of the newsgroup surfers are
photographers. Participation here is growing but I'm not sure we're at the
point yet that newsgroups have any significant impact on the marketplace.
I think that's one of the reasons regular readers of these groups find it
so frustrating that the 'net's clear message about Cambridge Camera, for
instance, has had no effect -- they're still there, still generating
complaints, despite the Internet.
eBay has a huge impact, and is having the effect of standardizing dealer
prices across North America (slowly, but surely). I also follow
subminiature equipment, and with Yashica Atorons going for $35 on eBay you
don't see very many of those $175 Atorons advertised by dealers any more
(they're undervalued at $35, by the way). My favorite local camera store
has a showcase full of beautiful Rollei collector's pieces that have been
sitting there for three years now. I remember going over them with him
when he bought them. Two weeks ago he told me his collector customers are
buying on eBay at one-third to one-half his asking price. That's a total
changeover in a major marketplace, collectible cameras, that has happened
in less than three years.
In recent years it has been articles in Shutterbug, especially the one a
couple of years ago identifying Yashica TLRs as bargains, that have had a
nearly immediate effect of raising demand -- which has the effect of
raising prices. The last time I saw this happen, about three years ago I
think, prices went up at least 1/3 in two months. It's that peak they're
now tapering down from.
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999
o_socrates@my-deja.com wrote
I've bought dozens of cameras on eBay. Mostly Nikon.
Results all over the map.
Some mint vintage cameras described as ho-hum.
A "mint+++" FE which needed $90 worth of repair.
Probably half of the cameras had undisclosed defects.
About half of those sellers responded to a request
for a rebate. The other half I didn't ask for anything.
Example: naive seller lists 8008, but fails to disclose
broken eyepiece screwin thread. Repair of this
defect is simply uneconomical. I have to choose to
send it back and demand my money back, or to
demand the $25 or so that the disclosure would have
influenced the price, or just drop it. I dropped it.
Most sellers can be categorized as either "dealers"
or "someone who drug a camera out of the closet".
I've found that dealers often sell stuff with defects,
but they respond quickly and positively to a request
to fix the transaction.
Closet camera guys is a crap shoot. Some great
bargains. Some real piles of shit. I bought an entire
8008 system which had been "heated", and the
lubrication had "melted" from both the body and
a couple of the lenses. $250 to fix. I asked the
guy for $150; he claimed to know nothing of the
problem, and claimed poverty to delay giving me
the $150. But eventually he did. There are very
very few real crooks on eBay. There are a lot
of people who conveniently forget defects.
N
Date: 18 Dec 1998
"William Lee" willee@interconnect.net writes:
The "real value" of something is determined by what one or more people are
willing to pay for it. Ebay then, is actually a very reliable indicator
of what equipment is worth. In other words, the price of used camera
equipment just went up. The good old days when people would give up there
used equipment for 50 cents on the dollar are gone. It's a sellers
market.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998
I agree that eBay IS a reflection of the true value of something, but I
disagree with the general assumption that items sell on eBay for more than
their worth. Maybe 10% of items might be sold at prices higher than mail
order but, far and away, most items sell for much less than advertised in
Shutterbug or sold by mail order retailers. I can look down the list of
thinks I've purchased recently...
and I could go on and on....
Price any of these items on the internet and you find them to be 50% to
100% below mail order retail. The notion that item sell for more than
their worth on eBay is a fallacy based on an occasional overbid item. If
it was really overpriced, it wouldn't be so popular.
regards,
From Leica Mailing List:
This person I know wanted to sell a Leica body and a lens. The body
has a very unique and distinctive mark on it. My friend sold it on
the internet (not on the LUG). The person who bought it wanted a 15
day return privilege. So after a little haggling over price my
friend sold the camera to this person.
The camera was shipped second day air to the buyer in Texas. Several
days later (through a series of circumstances) my friend found out
his camera was on E-bay auction with a reserve price on it. He knew
it was his camera because the unique mark was visible in the photo of
the camera on E-bay. At he end of the auction the camera was not
sold because the reserve price had not been met.
Yes, you guessed it. My friend got the camera and lens back from the
buyer with a not saying that the camera did not meet his
requirements, or some such crap.
The moral is, be real careful who you sell cameras to in Texas and,
only offer a three day return privilege.
Regards,
Bill
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001
A word of warning about purchasing lenses on ebay. You say you were
lucky buying a Schneider 50mm enlarging lens. It takes a whole lot more
than luck to avoid getting ripped off on ebay. If you purchase lenses on
ebay you need to be EXTREMELY knowledgeable about lenses and know which
questions to ask. You also need to realize that a lot of the people
selling photographic equipment on ebay are junk dealers. A lot of the
equipment was purchased by them at estate auctions, liquidation sales,
etc. Even though you might know the correct questions to ask before
bidding, oftentimes these dealers don't have the foggiest idea what you
are talking about. If you plan on purchasing used lenses, you would
probably be better off buying from a reputable dealer who specializes in
the type of equipment you are looking for. There are a few of the major
used photo equipment dealers who from time to time put items up for
auction. It might be safe to bid on those items, but you might be better
off buying from them directly. That way you can negotiate returning the
item if it isn't adequate.
As far as determining which lenses would be best for you, experience
is going to be the best teacher. The 90mm is a good place to start.
After that, it is really up to you to figure out which lenses suit your
own personal needs and style. Just remember that changes in linear
magnification are proportional to the changes in lens focal length. If
you change from a 90 to a 180, the focal length will have doubled, and the
linear magnification will have also doubled. For example, that building
that was only one inch tall on the ground glass using the 90 will be two
inches tall with the 180. Of course, whichever lens is appropriate for a
particular shot oftentimes is dictated by the subject. You might want to
shoot with the 90, but find out that the camera location dictated by that
lens would unfortunately include a telephone pole and a bunch of power
lines. Moving in closer to avoid that problem might then require a much
shorter focal length.
I don't know if you plan to shoot architectural interiors or not. If
you do, it is important to realize that almost always the camera position
is dictated by the architectural layout. Lens selection, therefore is
also dictated by camera position along with the angle of view necessary to
include everything desired. I recently worked on a project doing interior
shots inside small community theaters. In these small cramped spaces I
ended up using my shortest lens (65mm) quite a bit. There were several
situations where I would have been better off with a shorter lens. Since
I didn't have anything shorter, I was forced to compromise by selecting a
different camera position.
I hope that this is all helpful.
Ken Burns
...
[Ed. note: okay, a Diana camera is a plastic 120 rollfilm brownie clone
that often leaks light and costs well under $20 - with film, so on
ebay...]
Luigi de Guzman wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item;=1212642571
US$177.50 for a Diana.
Because!
Anybody know the record price paid?
--
From Nikon MF Mailing List:
When I fialed to sell my F3hp on ebay I had a gentleman tell me that the
market had spoken and all that was bid on it is what it is worth. Yet I
think the timing, the picture, description and how you package your
product effect this much more than the market. I also have discovered an
unscrupilous way to "cheat" on ebay.... Ebay looked into something for me
and said they found no wrongdoing but it seems dishonest to me, so a
warning to anyone selling on ebay.. put a note in your desription saying
that you reserve right to nullify the auction if any bids are retractd int
he last few hours! I had an item which someone bid on with a relatively
high amount. Someone I suspect as a buddy then overbid him with an insane
bid. With one minute left in the auction the bid was retracted leaving the
original low bid as the winner! Suspect I think!
Anyhow the amounts where not great but just the concept aggravated me. tHe
reason for the retracted bid was he claimed he bid the wrong amount.. Well
that might be so but he waited over a day to retract it and with a minute
left would have chased off any other buyers!
regards
PS I still have a nice f3hp and md4 motordrive to sell if anyone is
interested.....
Greg Weber--the Konica repairman whom I quoted under "Konica C35 vs.
Konica Auto S-3"--told me that, in his assessment, as many as 70% of the
cameras bought on EBay are defective, including many cameras described
as "clean," "in great shape," and "seems to work fine." "I get a lot of
calls," he said, "from owners or repair shops who have on their hands a
Konica that needs a good deal more work than they thought."
He advised that it's fine to buy a camera on EBay but that you should
factor in an additional $75 to $100 to get the camera in top shape.
Again, he cautioned that the seller's description has, too often, not
been a reliable guide.
I wonder if this applies equally to immaculate cameras that clearly have
been sitting ina drawer for decades. Well, I suppose the mercury battery
could have leaked, and Winfried, I believe, has apprised us of how
battery acid, once leaked, finds its way into the far regions of a
Yashica.
Greg added that about 70% of lenses bought on EBay are in good shape.
Paul Franklin Stregevsky
From Rangefinder Mailing List;
I have enjoyed being on this list for several months now. I've gotten
some really good information, and enjoyed a great deal of the comments. I
felt I had to reply about the thrift shop message, as I have rather strong
feelings about it. It's become very clear to me, that there are a great
deal of poeple out there cruising thrift stores for things to put up for
sale on Ebay.
This is a shame for true lovers and users of older cameras who would
actually try to put these cameras back into circulation.
I see them all the time-the retired guys with baseball caps running around
grabbing stuff up-the housewives who buy up anything remotely looking
"old". I'll be in a thrift shop or junk shop and hear "Got any old
cameras?" from an overweight housewife with four kids in tow. She will
than go on to explain (within earshot) that they are "easy to sell on the
internet." The same goes for antique malls and flea-markets. Very few
sellers will have failed to look up an item on Ebay or Yahoo before
pricing it 10% more. Of course, they fail to notice that the shutter's
jammed, the veiwfinder's cracked, or battery acid is leaking out the
bottom.
Between Antique Roadshow and Ebay, everything older than five minutes
is worth thousands. If any of you manage to secure anything resembling a
bargain-I salute you. At least that will be one more "classic" camera
still around and being used after the digitals, and plastic crap machines
are rotting in a landfill. I am lucky I have found several cameras I could
afford, and I cherish them. (Retina lllc, Yashica GSN, Argus C33, Leica
lllA). Thanks.
From Rangefinder Mailing List;
When I worked for Alkit Pro in NYC part of my job was to put stuff on
ebay. Mostly things that went there were used items but every now and then
I had to put a brand new item that was not selling well. My manager
(retard) thought that whatever we had was the best thing in the entire
world. He used to dictate prices that was out of his mind and really
didn't attract anyone. There was no point to it. He was just twisted.
Especially with Leica equipment that was just overpriced. There is many
companies like that on ebay. Samys camera and adorama where like that too.
In my case I totally took over and with my own system of pricing in 8
months generated $60000 profit.
When I wanted to purchase a canon ql17 I thought that I'm going to give my
local shops a try before I go on Ebay. So I took a trip to Camera Traders
in NYC. Guy wanted $170 for it. I bought 3 ql17 plus canonet 28 and flash
for that amount on ebay. But of course I also found a company/person
selling ql17 for $200 on ebay listing it as a last great rangefinder in
absolute mint condition.
A lot of merchants try to sell gray market goods as the US ones (example:
Pick a camera). They will list brand new gray hasselblad 30 mm for $2200.
You can buy a new one for $2500 from anyone. So you will go to their
auction bid and get a brand new lens for $2200. It's not a special bargain
thing. You need the lens but you don't want to shell out full retail price
so you go to their auction and feel better that you saved $300. The
problem is that this particular gray market hassy lens can be had for
$2000. Recently pick a camera had all the auctions closed by ebay. Hmmm
strange.
I believe that Pacific Rim camera is not aiming for us. They are aiming
for suckers or customers who need their stuff right away. Maybe they
bought some stuff at the high price to please their current client and
can't get rid of it for the right price and they don't want to loose
money. Such things were happening in my old job. We had a client that was
buying $20000 worth of film a year plus he did processing with us and he
repaired and purchased his equipment with us. So when he was selling his
beaten up M4 I paid him $1200 when camera on the trade-in was worth no
more than $600. My retarded manager listed it 8 or 9 times at $1700
according to some Leica book he had. He was aiming at one guy that would
be looking for m4 now. I finally sold that camera for a $1000. This was
one of the few cases my store was willing to sacrifice some in order to
make even more. Some stores will never ever do that. It's beyond some
owners logic to loose money. They are about a profit all the time. But to
give credit to my manager. We had a Linhoff Panoramic camera that was
worth no more that $3000. He sold it for $4500 after 10th or so listing.
How? Guy in Brazil wanted a camera asap because he was going on the
business trip. We took Diners card (his others cards were maxed) and we
were open at 7 am. He won the bid (auction was ending the day he called
us), we used his fedex account and package was on it's way 5 mins after
the auction was over. Luck? Probably. But after that epsiode everyhting
that my manager listed was on average 20% more than what it should be. He
wasn't aiming for bid wars but for that one chance.
At the end ebay also brought the prices down on the used equipment. They
don't make sense anymore. So big fish like adorama or bh can't dictate
prices no more. Bh can't even get rid off their gray market Bessa L for
price that they want. They may sell some locally but not on ebay. And
that's good... Very good...
Matt
From Rollei Mailing List;
Did you click the Buy it Now option? It only works if
you click on that, not if you make a bid of that amount.
If you clicked on Buy it Now and got this message, you
need to complain to eBay since it is a software glitch.
BTW, I just interviewed Jordan Glazier, the head of the
home electronics, computer and photo section at eBay last
week. He asked me to report unethical sellers to him
and gave me his direct e-mail address.
The interview, in case you're interested, is up on BestStuff.com
right now.
Bob
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
To: russiancamera-user@beststuff.com
Subject: [Russiancamera] Orion lens
Here's the reply from eBay.
Looks like you're SOL if someone rips you off for more than $ 200 !
I may have to set a $ 200 spending cap on eBay purchases.
Bob
----------
From: eBay Customer Support Support@ebay.com
Reply-To: eBay Customer Support Support@ebay.com
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002
To: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: Fraud Protection Claim #13820 (KMM48616543V81098L0KM)
Hello Bob,
Thank you for your reply about Fraud Protection Claim #13820.
The Fraud Protection Program provides coverage for up to $200.00 per
listing (minus $25.00 of the item price). $200 is the maximum amount of
coverage under the Fraud Protection Program per auction (minus $25 of
the purchase price).
For further clarification, please view the following page:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/insurance.html
"Under the eBay Fraud Protection Program, most items on eBay are covered
for up to $200 (minus $25 of the item price). Please note: the maximum
reimbursement for any claim is $175. For example:
1. If the item price is $500, you are eligible to receive $175;
2. If the item price is $100, you are eligible to receive $75;
3. If the item price is $26, you are eligible to receive $1."
Thank you for being part of the eBay community.
Regards,
Henry
Claims Adjuster
Fraud Protection Program
From: "ajacobs2" ajacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Alert EBAY Major Scam
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002
Be advised there is a someone trolling ( How 'bout credit card thief ) on
eBay who is sending out Safe Harbor messages requesting further
identification and information on your credit card you used to sign in with.
Also cleverly written into the mesage is a request for further data and that
data is your pin number and mothers maiden name, mortgage info, checking
acct information. They used the ruse ("we are updating your flagged acct")
pretty funny since I never sold anything there, how could I have flagged
acct and two I never used a credit card to sign on with....BINGO......bad
guys working overtime.
I checked with ebay and everything was fine....the notice used their logo
etc and looked real.
I got the message and flags went up.....there were 100 names on that email,
Safe Harbor spelled wrong and I don't give pin numbers or names out to
anybody much less an email with a Yahoo return address coming from eBay.
The reason I posted here is that I think I recognized some of the names from
here and you should be alert. They might of polled from here...or rec
digital or rec medium format.
I forwarded the info to security at eBay and Roadrunner abuse/security....
--
Al Jacobson
Website: www.aljacobs.com
Teaching site: http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ajacobs2
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002
From: "Steve K." skittelsrud@nospam.sio.midco.net
Subject: [Russiancamera] Proposed Ebay sniping solution:
I would like to see Ebay implement a policy of bidding where if someone
places a bid withing the last 5 minutes of the auction, the auction is
extended for another 5 minutes. This would totally eliminate sniping,
increase profits for the sellers, and increase profits for Ebay as well
(With increased percentages of final price). I think some other auctions do
this, and it does seem to work out very well.
Just my two rubles worth....
Steve K. (Iggymo)
From: "roland.rashleigh-berry" roland.rashleigh-berry@ntlworld.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: ebay description versus reality
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002
This is a description of a camera I recently bought on ebay followed by the
work I needed to do on it. The camera is an Agfa Jsolette.
"Folding Agfa Camera believed to have been manufactured in 1937 and to have
been nicknamed the 'Soldiers Camera' of World War 2. In absolutely pristine
condition...just look at the picture, no scratches, dents or marks. (It
could just have been purchased from a shop yesterday but has probably been
stored away in somebodys attic). This is a fine example of a small folding
camera of its era and would be a great asset to a collection. Comes complete
with Leather case and 'Snapshot Kodaguide'. Anybody who 'knows' cameras will
appreciate what this is."
Bearing in mind this camera is supposed to be "in absolutely pristine
condition" then....
Cosmetically....
The camera was very good apart from paint missing from the hinge, missing in
two places from the struts. There was a tiny amount of chrome pitting. The
shutter release level was quite extensively pitted. The inside of the inner
door had obvious pitting bubbles underneath the black paint. The front
focussing wheel was quite severely corroded with the aluminium going to a
powdery white but with all the numbers still visible.
Functionally.....
The viewfinder had an obvious speck on the back window that is however
completely out of focus when viewing through it. The viewfinder was
exceptionally clear.
One of the folding barn doors for 6x4.5 photography had an obvious dent and
did not seat properly when folded over into position. It would probably lift
the film away from the focal plane if used.
The front cell focussing mechanism was completey stuck. There was no
movement at all. The green gunge that Agfa use in the screw thread to give a
smooth turning motion had set to concrete many year before. When turned with
pliers it just unscrewed the inner element it was supposed to turn within.
The lens itself was cloudy inside and nearly opaque.
The shutter did not fire accurately at speeds slower than 1/25th sec. At 1
sec it sometimes did not work at all and had to be pushed the rest of the
way.
On the positive side, the self-timer suprisingly still worked and the lens
was the Apotar and not the Agnar. The bellows were supple and sound. The
lens/shutter standard was very rigid. The door opened well under its own
spring strength and closed emphatically. The red windows were not roughened
so were easy to see through.
The work I had to do to it....
The main concern was freeing up the front cell so that it had the capability
of focusing. Half an hour wa spent picking out all the solidified grunge I
could and using acetone to loosen it to no avail. I then used a screwdriver
to try to create a crack in the grungs so that further acetone could work.
To no avail. I then soaked the two stuck elements in cellulose thinner for a
few hours hoping it could get through a crack and soften it. In the meantime
I unscrewed the rear element, unscrewed it from its housing and cleaned it.
There were surface marks on it that might have been the beginnings of fungus
but they mostly all cleaned off with a fair amount of rubbing. Going back to
the stuck front cell, after more twisting with pliers and scooping out green
gunge it finally moved and unscrewed. I then cleaned off all traces of gunge
that I could using acetone. It was to stick solid again later requiring so
thorough a removal of the grunge that it now turns loose. I dare not
regrease it after the trouble the gunge caused me. The lenses, once aprt,
had to be removed from their holders for cleaning. Again, it seemed like the
marks on the surface were the beginnigs of fungus but after half an hour it
was all but removed. Minor spots and blemishes remained but would not affect
operation. I reassembled the lens and refocussed it using ground glass stuck
to the back, close-distance spectacles and a 50mm lens for accurate
adjustment. After about an hour of exercising the shutter it seemed to free
up, but will probably require further exercise on different days to ensure
it frees up. But even the 1 second shutter speed seemed accurate in the end
as well as all the other shutter speeds. I gave the camera case a polish,
using a polish that can cover up scuffs, and the case looks really nice now.
Thank God that camera wasn't worse than "in absolutely pristine condition".
Welcome to ebay, folks. Hope you pick up a real bargain.
From: Stacey fotocord@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: ebay description versus reality
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002
>Thank God that camera wasn't worse than "in absolutely pristine condition".
>Welcome to ebay, folks. Hope you pick up a real bargain.
Should have just returned it. I've bought 4 or 5 folders from
non-photo people who thought it was in good shape but just didn't know
how to rate them. When I pointed out the problems, they all gave me
all my money back and 3 included the shipping costs as well.
Also given many of these are 50-70 years old, you aren't likely to
find perfect samples of these on e-bay. Agfa folders almost ALWAYS
have frozen front cells unless they have been repared. The nice ones
are in retail stores and comand top dollar.
Stacey, who finds most cameras on e-bay are close to their
description.
From hasselblad mailing list:
Godfrey DiGiorgi [ramarren@bayarea.net]
Sent: Wed 2/19/2003
Subject: Re: [HUG] How not to get ripped off?
Basically, you protect yourself from rip-offs by using common sense and
standard business protocol:
- First, on your part, be straightforward about the transaction: tell
buyers what you have accurately, document its condition and such prior
to shipping, be sure to include packaging, shipping and insurance costs
when you set the price, etc.
- Require confirmed payment before shipping. USPS Money Orders, bank
checks, certified checks are very reliable and easy to verify. Personal
checks should clear your deposit before shipping. If you want to use an
electronic payment for convenience, like PayPal.com, be sure to verify
that the funds are received and deposited into your bank account prior
to shipment.
- When you ship, be certain to use a tracked service and insure for the
transaction value plus 10%. Require a signature at the recipient end.
- Be sure to stipulate your return policy clearly .. I usually offer
full repayment aside from shipping expenses for a limited period of
time when I've done expensive gear transactions, payment to be
delivered after receipt and inspection of the returned items, and
return only accepted with your confirmation before shipping. You
basically don't want people to use you as a convenient, cheap rental
service.
Godfrey
Bob Miano wrote:
> I need to sell one of my expensive Hasselblad lenses. I've never sold
> any
> of my equipment before over the internet. Can anyone suggest the
> safest way
> to get payment?
Sent: Wed 2/26/2003
From classic 35mm compact camera mailing list:
From: mr__simon art.simon@lycos.com
[Classic 35mm Compacts] Compact 35mm Article
Hi,
I use to lurk in this group a year or two ago. I wrote an article on
my experience buying a few compact 35mm rangefinders on ebay. It
covers the Ricoh 500g, Konica C35V, Vivitar 35CA, Canonet G-III QL17
and others. I had plans of trying to sell it to a magazine, but well,
I never got around to it. It's suppose to be funny. I posted it at:
http://art.simon.tripod.com/35Compact/
Let me know what you think, positive or negative, I can take it.
Thanks,
Art
From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Where to sell gear?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003
There can be a variety of reasons for limiting sales to the continental
United States, It allows you to quote postage in advance so that the final
price is known at the conclusion of the auction (as opposed to having to
first find out in what country the buyer is located, then wrap everything up
and stand in line at the post office or Pak Mail or wherever to find out
what postage is going to be, and only after that finalize the price, then
repeat the whole exercise a second time when you're ready to ship).
Communication can be difficult if the buyer speaks little or no English.
There are some parts of the world where scams on e bay have been well
documented and you don't want to have a high bidder from those parts of the
world. And of course you don't want a check in a foreign currency and/or
drawn on a foreign bank. Pay Pal is fine for regular sellers, not worth the
trouble if you only sell very occasionally.
International wire transfers aren't necessarily a breeze, they can be a
royal pain in the neck. For one thing, you have to call your bank daily to
find out if the funds are in your account. For another, I don't like sending
out my bank account information over the internet.
In my experience the vast majority of the buyers end up being from the U.S.
anyhow, so it isn't much of a practical limitation and one that I consider
worth it to eliminate the above potential difficulties.
Images and Photography Information www.ellisgalleries.com
"Graham Stewart" graha.ms@no.spam.please wrote
> Brian Ellis wrote:
>
> > no sales outside the continental United States.
>
> I've never understood the rationale behind these auctions. I can
> understand why someone selling a 'commodity' item might restrict their
> market like this, but given how small the market for LF stuff is I just
> dont get why anyone would want to.
>
> Shipping abroad takes virtually no extra effort. You have to fill in one
> small customs form and since the customer pays shipping the cost is
> irrelevant.
>
> Admittedly you do not want to be handling foriegn checks, but Paypal and
> international wire transfers are a breeze and far less effort than
> handling checks in the first place.
>
> Graham
From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Where to sell gear?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003
I've sold a fair amount of equipment. I use three resources,
rec.photo.marketplace.large-format, which I don't think has ever produced a
sale, the classified ads in photo.net, which have produced some sales, and
as a last resort e bay which so far has always worked but which is kind of a
pain in the neck between having to make picctures and, much worse, having to
respond to all the idiots who pester you with questions by e mail without
reading or comprehending the ad (e.g. ad says "4x5 camera, payment only by
check or money order, no sales outside the continental United States."
Questions received by e mail: "what size camera is this?" "do you accept Pay
Pal?" "do you accept credit cards?" "do you accept Bid Pay?" "do you ship to
Indonesia?"
--
Images and Photography Information www.ellisgalleries.com
[Ed. note: a timely warning on a potential security issue for ebay users...]
From minolta mailing list:
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003
From: "D. Patterson" nye@fidalgo.net
Subject: Warning about fraudulent eBay Security Request
Please be advised and warned that a spammer is sending fraudulent e-mail
which attempts to steal your eBay identity and password. Normally, I
wouldn't trouble the list with a warning such as this, but members of
the group who frequently use eBay could inadvertently click on the
provided link in the e-mail before realizing they were being deceived
and their eBay identity is stolen.
(CAUTION, DO NOT USE THE LINK IN THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE! It is provided
below solely for the purpose of giving members an opportunity to see
what the identity thief is using to deceive the e-mail recipient and
what to avoid.)
The following message was received:
[QUOTE]
Subject: eBay Security Request
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003
From: aw-confirm@ebay.com
To: nye@fidalgo.net
Dear eBay User,
During our regular update and verification of the accounts, we could not
verify your current information. Either your
information has changed or it is incomplete.
As a result, your access to bid or buy on eBay has been restricted. To
start using your eBay account again, please update
and verify your information by clicking the link below :
http://cgi3.ebay.com@64.176.148.119/eBayISAPI.dll?&MfcISAPICommand;=Enter[...I
broke the URL here so it will not be used accidentally...]
Confirm&UsingSSL;=0&pUserId;=&ru;=445≈=0&dz;=1
Thank you very much for your cooperation!
eBay Customer Support
Remember: eBay will not ask you for sensitive personal information (such
as your password, credit card and bank account
numbers, social security number, etc.)
in an email.
Copyright 1995 - 2003 eBay Inc. All rights reserved. Designated
trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.
[UNQUOTE]
After I forwarded the above suspected fraudulent e-mail to
spoof@ebay.com, I received the following response from eBay.
[QUOTE]
Hello,
Thank you for contacting eBay's Trust and Safety Department about email
solicitations that are falsely made to appear to have come from eBay.
These emails, commonly referred to as "spoof" messages, are sent in an
attempt to collect sensitive personal information from recipients who
reply to the message or click on a link to a Web page requesting this
information.
The email you reported did not originate from, nor is it endorsed by,
eBay. We are very concerned about this problem and are working
diligently to address the situation. We are currently investigating the
source of this email to take further action. You may rest assured that
your account standing has not changed and that your listings have not
been affected.
We advise you to be very cautious of email messages that ask you to
submit information such as your credit card number or your email
password. eBay will never ask you for sensitive personal information
such as passwords, bank account or credit card numbers, Personal
Identification Numbers (PINs), or Social Security numbers in an email
itself. If you ever need to provide information to eBay please open a
new Web browser, type www.ebay.com, and click on the "site map" link
located at the top the page to access the eBay page you need.
If you have any doubt about whether an email message is from eBay,
please forward it immediately to spoof@ebay.com and do not respond to it
or click on any of the links in the email message. Please do not change
the subject line or forward the email as an attachment.
If you entered personal information such as your password, social
security number or credit card numbers into a Website based on a request
from a spoofed email, you need to take immediate action to protect your
identity. We have developed an eBay Help page with valuable information
regarding the steps you should take to protect yourself.
To get to the "Protecting Your Identity" Help page from the eBay site,
please click on the "help" link located at the top of most eBay pages
and select the following topics when the "eBay Help Center" window
appears:
Safe Trading > If Something Goes Wrong > Identity Theft
We encourage you to review additional information about protecting your
identity found in the eBay Help system. Please click on the "help" link
located at the top of most eBay pages and select the following topics
when the "eBay Help Center" window appears:
Safe Trading > If Something Goes Wrong& > Account Theft > Account
Protection
Once again, thank you for alerting us to the spoof email you received.
Your vigilance helps us ensure that eBay remains a safe and vibrant
online marketplace.
Regards,
Ian
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
[UNQUOTE]
This apparent attempt at eBay identity theft is one of the more
sophisticated such attempts to come along. I hope our members have
succeeded in avoiding it.
Dallas Patterson
nye@fidalgo.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: OT -eBay Fraud
From: sendspam@here.com (Fantasy Fotos)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003
Another fraud being used on ebay users, is to send a message that has a
"clickable" link that appears to be an ebay URL. It isn't. It goes to a
page disguised as an ebay page. They "capture" your ebay "cookie" with
your "userid" and "password". Viola, they're into your ebay account. They
change your "password" to lock you out. Then they start selling non-existant
merchandise using your userid. Been there, had that done to me!!!
msoloff@worldnet.att.net says...
>Watch it guys, another round of fake emails from eBay asking (demanding)
>that your credit card information be verified is on the boards again.
>
>This email, proportedly from "support@ebay.com" is particularly nasty
>because it looks like an official eBay page, logos and all.
>
>Stay away from this puppy! If you have any doubts at all, go to the
>official eBay website and click on "security". If you feel you need to
>talk to eBay, do it on the landline (telephone).
>
>Regards,
>Marv
--
Regards
Tom Fineran
From: "Jeremy" jeremy@nospam.thanks.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Wasup with Cambridge Camera?
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004
"EZela57383" ezela57383@aol.com wrote
> Does anyone know the status of Cambidge Camera in NY?
They went out of business several months ago, and have resurfaced on eBay
under a slightly different name.
They had a terrible reputation for ripoffs and charging credit cards for
merchandise not in stock, then failing to deliver.
Their new phone number is 212-924-5323, and their new web address is
www.cambridgeworld.com.
Do yourself a favor, and cancel the credit card transaction, while you still
can.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: ebay: the technical analysis
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998
>If you're gonna sell, there's no time like the present.
>
>Douglas Farmer
Nova Scotia
CANADA
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/danksta/home.htm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: EBAY . . . One Auction Result . . .
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998
Terry Danks
Nova Scotia
CANADA
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/danksta/home.htm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Nikone reference for buyers/sellers
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999
B&H; US/grey, Item Desc., ebay sale range, # of deals
(ebay range for unmet reserves, # of deals)
$440/400, 20mmf2.8,$335-385,3 ($280-347,2)
$290/275, 24mmf2.8,$237-250, 2
$250/230, 50mmf1.4, $200,1 ($217,1)
$600/550,105mmf2.8, $ , 0 ($460-465, 2)
$900/840, 300mmf4, $575-760, 3
$1,600/1,400, 20-35f2.8, $ , 0 ($1,275-1,301, 2)
$625/550, 35-70f2.8, $400-520, 5 ($400-445, 3)
$875/780, 80-200f2.8 w/collar, $670-780, 4 ($610, 1)
?/?,80-200f2.8 older version, $570-685, 3 ($535-650, 2)
?/$710, N90s, $585-717, 11 ($631, 1)
$235/190, MF-26, $175-233, 4
$156/120, DR-3+adapter, $114, 1
?/?, SB-24, $180-232, 7 ($198, 1)
?/?, SB-26, $289-355, 6
nikon item
BH grey
BH USA
Ebay low
Ebay Hi
No. Sold
Low/grey
Hi/grey
20mm f.28
400
440
335
385
3
84%
96%
24mm f2.8
275
290
237
250
2
86%
91%
50mm f1.4
230
250
200
200
1
87%
87%
300mm f4
840
900
575
760
3
68%
90%
35-70mm f2.8
550
625
400
520
5
73%
95%
80-200mm f2.8
780
875
670
780
4
86%
100%
MF-26
190
235
175
233
4
92%
123%
DR-3+
120
156
114
114
1
95%
95%
average=
84%
97%
average EBAY used discount over new grey market is running a mere
16%!
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: Tired Of The eBay Noise
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998
>Having listened to too many Chowderheads here complaining about eBay,
>I just have to get this off my chest.
>
>eBay prices simply reflect the value *buyers* (not sellers) a willing to
>place on an item. Unless you subscribe to the (Marxist) labor theory of
>value, nothing has instrinsic worth, it is all a matter of supply and
>demand (assuming there is no fraud or violence involved). (If you
>do believe in the Labor Theory Of Value, then please move quickly to
>one of the former Soviet states where you can thoroughly enjoy the
>rich rewards brought about by that economic philosophy...)
>
>These are not simple to figure out. They depend on many things including the
>absolute supply and demand of an item, theimeliness of its availability,
>the *perception* of supply and demand, and the alternatives for how the
>money might be used if the item were *not* purchased.
>
>The point is that all this whining about eBay is very foolish. I have
>bought (and sold) there many times. When I buy, I mentally set a price I will
>not exceed. I don't necessarily expose it right away because eBay's
>marketplace behavior favors last minute bidding increases. If the item
>exceeds that price, I walk away and never have buyer's regret.
>
>I suspect that a lot of pissing and moaning here is because eBay has
>exposed the used market for almost everything to a much larger
>community of potential buyers. - i.e. A lot more of the actual demand
>for goods is being seen for the first time. (Keep in mind that a whole
>lot of folks using the web haven't a clue how to go about using
>a newsgroup. Even if they did, they would be much more hesitant to
>buy from strangers without some form of feedback mechanism to keep
>people more honest.) With this greater demand has come higher prices.
>
>So, the moral of the story is, do your homework, bid only what the item
>is worth to you, and quit blaming the medium.
>
>Oh, one more thing. If someone defrauds you (misrepresents the condition of an
>item, doesn't send it as promised, etc.) you have every right to complain. Write
>some feedback here or eBay (or both) which is grounded in the *FACTS* not your
>limited vocabulary for profanity. Then, call your state's office of the
>attorney general. They may as well earn their keep and they may be more
>responsive than you know. If the transaction took place over U.S. Mail,
>get in touch with the postmaster general and beef there too. The more
>noise you make, the more results you get in my experience.
>
>HOWEVER, I think many of the people bitching here over the last 6 months or so
>have lost all sense of proportion. How is buying an item sight unseen
>which does not meet your every expectation materially different than buying
>a used car that looks good, but falls apart a few months afterward. When
>you buy something used, you are making a risk/reward judgement - Is the lower
>cost of the item (compared to new) worth the increased risk that it might not be
>perfect?
...
From: Greg Finn finn@jug.isi.edu
[1] Re: EBAY - Does anyone here actually buy from ebay?
Date: Tue Feb 02 1999
> ...
>Crux of the matter - its up to the buyer to be a knowledgeable consumer
>anytime he buys used equipment, orders mail order, or buys through the
>web. But with a little research and caution, the risk can be managed,
>and some good deals can be had.
>>The interest of the auction house is different. In an on-line auction
>>it is in the seller's interest to misrepresent and the auction house's
>>interest to remain scrupulously ignorant of item condition.
>
>Likewise in any consignment auction, on or off-line. However, it is
>only in a sellers short-term interest to misrepresent. In the long
>term, repeat buyers are essential to the bottom line.
>> Thus,
>>there is not even a loose standard for representing the item to the
>>bidder. What does LN, M, VG, and G mean? Who knows? The bidder
>>certainly does not. Contrast this with the Shutterbug standard
>>meaning for those terms.
>
>But even established mail order houses and local camera shops have
>differing standards. I'm sure you and I do. Who's ultimately to say
>whether my mint is your mint?
>...
>>Finally, we come to the risk of criminal fraud. It is clear that,
>>since the on-line auction house does not act as a physical go-between
>>for seller and buyer, but merely as an advertiser and market-making
>>computer, the odds of fraud go up markedly for both sellers and
>buyers.
>
>Compared to what? Physical auctioneers never sell counterfeit or
>defective merchandise?
> Camera shops, pawn shops, and the local
>department store are always scrupulously honest?
> Certainly if you bid
>blindly, don't research the seller, and don't take precautions, there
>is the risk of a bad deal. However, with reasonable caution, I've
>successfully bought and sold couple of dozen items on eBay and have
>never been less than satisfied.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: Beware John Stewart!
Date: 29 Dec 1998
> if you continue posting this same thing again, I'm going to notate the
> newsgroup abuse as a negative comment in your ebay feedback file.
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: tbg@world.std.com (Thomas B Gross)
[1] Re: ebay prices check this out
Date: Mon Feb 08 1999
: Oh I also thought of a GREAT idea. Simply buy from B&H; and resell on ebay.
: I am in the wrong business.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: EBAY - Does anyone here actually buy from them?
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: EBAY - Does anyone here actually buy from them?(hell no...at
least nobody smart)
Date: 25 Jan 1999
Anyone really interested in finding used eqt would, I guess, check out
rec.photo.marketplace - ebay is probably OK for the kind of stuff that
my wife looks for (e.t. collectibles, motion lamps), for which there seems
not to be a group of informed buyers.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: EBAY - Does anyone here actually buy from them?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
> This is usual auction tactics - you decide what your bid (absolute max)
> will be, and you offer that in the end when you see a price go up
> slowly, but steadily. That tactic is used to "scare away" other bidders
> and make sure that the gap is unacceptably high for people who heighten
> their bids with only a few dollars at a time.
>
> I wouldn't personally use that tactic on Ebay, as the the "tempo" is
> low, compared to the "instant-descision" timing required in a real time
> auction.
...
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: RE: Ebay - under investigation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Ebay Under Investigation ...FINALLY.....!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay Under Investigation ...FINALLY.....!
Date: 26 Jan 1999
>One investigator reported
>how easy it was to "shill-up" an auctioned item. "Simply, he said"
>just bid on your own stuff. Another way is bid on items from anon
>email addresses or secondary addresses. It so simple , its scarry.
>The big problem, however, is outright FRAUD. Everything from
>misrepresentation to non-delivery is rampant on ebay. On, and On
>and On goes the report.......Ebay has refused to comment to the proper
>authorities so far.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: EBAY - Does anyone here actually buy from them?(hell no...
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999
>[snip]
>You sore because you got outbid (sniped) in the last minute? With eBay's
>proxy bidding, if you had bid your maximum, then the other guy bid more than
>your MAXIMUM, so what is your problem?
>
>Makes me wonder, all these folks so sore at eBay. Why they are so upset?
romney@edromney.com wrote:
> The real wholesale in camera sales is the trade fairs. The
> newsgroups like rec.photo.marketplace usually have higher prices.
> Ebay is really expensive and all rigged with shills. Shutterbug
> prices are high except for a few bargains which are snapped up
> quickly by their elite first class and air mail subscibers who
> get the magazine about a week before you do. Camera Shopper,
> http://www.camera-shopper.com is a good used camera publication.
> All copies are sent First Class. It does not discriminate against
> the consumer as Shutterbug does. Midwest Photo Shopper
> http://www.midwestphotoshopper.com also lists the trade fairs. The
> real bargains are at these trade fairs. Many people don't know
> where they are are because they prefer not to read Shutterbug.
> Wouldn't it be nice if Pop Photo, the largest photo magazine,
> carried a page of listings of all these trade fairs? Why not write
> them and suggest it? You can get regular lists of some of these
> trade fairs by mail from their promoters including Photorama ,
> 313-884-1955, Nancy Green at 954-564-1022, and Bill Bagnell
> 714-786-8183. This will save you having to buy a copy of
> Shutterbug. A fair amount of money can be made buying cameras at
> trade fairs and selling on the net or through Camera Shopper as I
> have done until recently. It would also be nice if someone posted a
> web page calendar of local camera trade fairs. Best wishes.. Ed
> Romney
>
> To all concerned, especially newbies:
From: eosman@aol.com (Eosman
[1] Re: Rules of thumb for prices of used equipment
Date: Mon Mar 15 1999
>I recently purchased a used Vivitar 283 flash on ebay for $46 ($42
>winning bid + $4 shipping). The same unit new from B&H; or Adorama is
>about $72 if purchased in NYC ($67 price + $5 sales tax). In this
>case I received a unit that I would rate as E- and saved $30 or about
>40% from the discounted price. In the case of a flash, this seems
>like a reasonable tradeoff between getting a 1 year warranty and
>having a vendor to support me and saving a few dollars.
From: Anders Svensson Anders.-.Eivor.Svensson@swipnet.se
[1] Re: Rules of thumb for prices of used equipment
Date: Mon Mar 15 1999
Anders.-.Eivor.Svensson@swipnet.se
From: Richard Tighe DTIGHE@prodigy.net
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: Ebay Bashing
From: Richard Tighe DTIGHE@prodigy.net
To: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Ebay
If you are spending that kind of money......you need a warranty
Dick Tighe
Subject: Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: 7 Apr 1999
>So again, where's the problem?
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: sniping Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS : Some notes on good deals..
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999
> Actually, sniping is a way to keep the price low. If an item I'm
> interested in, say an Olympus OM-4T (Typically sells for $400-600 used)
> is up for auction, and I want to try to capture it at a bargain price
> ($200-300), why tip of everyone else wanting the same thing? If the
> auction is ending at a time I'm at my computer anyway (M-F 8A-6P I'm in
> my office and the computer is online), why not wade in at the last
> minute with a $300 bid? [...]
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Are people stupid or am I confused?
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999
: Jan Steinman -- Jan AT Bytesmiths DOT com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Are people stupid or am I confused?
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: 8 Apr 1999
>I've said exactly the same things, only to be flamed by people
>exclaiming about the "great deal" they got there. The last few items I
>purchased there came nowhere near the condition that was stated. People
>are still paying top retail $ for a camera offered by someone who has a
>feedback of 1500, who says in the ad, "while I have never taken any
>pictures with this camera, it works well" (I, being a very suspicious
>type, feel many items there may be stolen goods. Look at the number of
>pawn shops selling items. And no guarantee, no recourse. It's worse
>than buying a "sold as is" camera at a camera store for the same
>bust-out retail price as one that's not "as is". At least if the
>camera is broken, you can go back into the store and argue face-to face
>with the seller. Where's the smarts in these e-Bay bidders??? Some
>things don't add up.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: More ebay silliness.
Date: 20 May 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: More ebay silliness.
Date: 20 May 1999
>they don't
>have any idea what the new with a warranty price is from at least one
>reputable dealer.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: More ebay silliness.
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999
: )
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 20 May 1999
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: should I take the risk?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999
>I'd never bid, let alone online, because: the bidding drives the prices up, and
>you never know what you are getting-as you can't really examine it before
>bidding-
>and because I'm not about to put a credit card number out over the net.
> The newspaper want ads,
> private sales, garage sales,
>pawn shops,
>and mail
>order retail / wholesale outlets, are more relaible..
> Bidding serves the seller...not the buyer.
Friesians in the Northwest
www.zoocrewphoto.com/friesian.htm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: 4 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Doing business on Ebay
Date: 6 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Are people stupid or am I confused?
Date: 6 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Are people stupid or am I confused?
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: sniping Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS : Some notes on good deals..
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999
> Again, I have to say I think you are missing the point. You don't
> understand what is meant by "sniping" vs. bidding.
> [...] (snip good stuff)
>
> Suppose you bid $100 on an item, by the robot-bidder, but the current
> price is $50. Now I come in and make 51 bids in $1 increments right at
> the end of the auction. I will beat you, if I don't run out of time, by
> whatever the minimum bid might be. Understand? that's sniping -you get
> outbid by the minimum amount by someone who bids sixty small bids on an
> item 2 minutes before the auction is to end.
> Some of that sniping is being done by shills - they force your bid up to
> the maximum, then withdraw from bidding (with okay of seller, who they are
> often one and the same person etc.).
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: sniping Re: CRAZY EBAY BUYERS
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999
> I personally have never seen this activity, but then I've only bought 18
> items from ebay. By bidding once, my maximum bid, only at the last moment, I
> would eliminate entirely any benefit the activity you talk about would have
> for any deceitful persons. Note that if the sniper bids only the minimum
> amount, he will probably always loose to me and my estimated fair value. I
> place my bid when my synchronized clock shows between 5 &10 seconds left. I
> use a T1 line to a main trunk, and I attribute my never failing to get my
> bid in to the line. If I used a modem, I would probably back off another 5
> seconds. Note. My bid is hard. I don't change it. There is no time for one
> up bids, or shills to work.
From: shambric@my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Diana on ebay!! over 100$
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay bids coming back to Earth?
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999
don ferrario
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay bids coming back to Earth?
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999
> Has anyone else noticed bids on common camera items coming back to
> "normal" levels? I have. [...]
> [...] That said can
> anyone point me torwards any good sources for used SLR equipment?
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay bids coming back to Earth?
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999
>That said can
> anyone point me torwards any good sources for used SLR equipment?
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay bids coming back to Earth?
Date: 21 Apr 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay bids coming back to Earth?
Date: 26 Apr 1999
>Has anyone else noticed bids on common camera items coming back to
>"normal" levels? I have. [...]
> No. The more you become familiar with ebay and the trends, the
> more it seems the same, with some 'apparent' fluctuations in
> the prices of certain items, largely in the collectible category.
> The "same" meaning people, usually new ones, paying far higher
> prices than an experienced buyer.
> The supply of new, uninformed, compulsive buyers seems quite large
> and there is no sign that it will diminish any time soon.
> BTW - SNIPING is getting _real bad_ and watch for a controvercial
> selling approach soon. I plan to put something up for bids in a
> manner which might just make some seasoned buyers go BALLISTIC.
> It will be a SNIPE-PROOF auction!
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999
From: Sover.Wong@swisscom.com
Subject: [NIKON] Crooks on eBay
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Re:more eBay silliness....[OT]
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999
> FRENZY FRENZY FRENZY!
>
> lol
>
> BTW- I just got ripped off on a Dell laptop purchased from Ebay. The buyer
> insisted on a cashiers check, provided me with his FEDEX acct # to send
> payment, and what I got was a Clearwater, FL telephone directory in the
> FEDEX package.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: more eBay silliness....[OT]
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999
>Didn't you check the seller's eBay feedback before sending off a cashier's
>check? Have you reported this to eBay? What did they do about it?
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: more eBay silliness....[OT]
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999
>>Doug Welling wrote:
>
>>BTW- I just got ripped off on a Dell laptop purchased from Ebay. The buyer
>>> insisted on a cashiers check, provided me with his FEDEX acct # to send
>>> payment, and what I got was a Clearwater, FL telephone directory in the
>>> FEDEX package.
>
>If that's true, remember eBay has their Lloyd's of London Insurance program in
>full effect. Fill out the claim form and you get your money back. There's no
>way you can actually be ripped off at eBay.
From: "Lee Yan Zhan" yzlee@cyberway.com.sg
Subject: [Leica] Re: Ebay advice
Lee Yan Zhan
Fellow LUGGER from Singapore
From: "Thomas G. Tamura" ttamura@aloha.net
Subject: [Leica] eBay Advice
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999
From: "Carl Wegerer, III" wegerer@flash.net
Subject: [KOML] eBay
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999
From: "Carl Wegerer, III" wegerer@flash.net
Subject: Re: [KOML] eBay
From: "Carl Wegerer, III" wegerer@flash.net
To: Koni-Omega Mailing List koni-omega@snoopy.cmagic.com
Subject: Re: [KOML] eBay
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Ebay
Date: 02 Aug 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Bargains at Ebay
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999
>>From: "Doug" doug-tricarico@email.msn.com
>
>>I purchased two Kodak Stereo cameras from individuals on Ebay, each for
>>about 1/2 to 1/3 what I'd pay at a camera shop.
>
>>I've seen some good quality rigs for sale on Ebay that people have picked up
>>for a song.
P>
>
>>They have no idea what they're worth
>>so they'll part with them fairly cheaply.
>>>My experiences on Ebay
>>have all been positive.
>>
>>Doug
>I know exactly what you mean. Lately the prices have dropped so much at eBay
>that I have been getting some remarkable bargains. I guess it's the summer
>slump.
>
>http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/newtoday/category625/index.html
>
>G.B.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: E-bay caution
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999
[Ed. note: searching tips...]
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999
From: Peter.Lanczak@SIZ.DE
To: Koni-Omega Mailing List koni-omega@snoopy.cmagic.com
Subject: Antwort: Re: [KOML] Hexanon 135mm f/3.5
Subject: Re: Buying on eBay
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Buying on eBay
Date: 20 Oct 1999
From: ELESKIN@aol.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Ebay
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999
From: "imagineero ." imagineero@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Buying a used F3HP
eBay
From: Mattei mattei@cts.com
Reply to: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: [Rollei] Prism Hump Cover
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999
From: John Coan jcoan@alumni.duke.edu
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: The secret of ebay bidding success
> That's easy, Jerry. Just figure what the item sells for at a show,
> multiply by 3 and enter your bid. Works about half the time.
> bob
> ------------------
> I do wish I could find out the secrets of
> the habitual successful high bidders. Any clues, RUGers?
>
> Jerry
From: curtiscr@pe.net
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: The secret of ebay bidding success
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Grafmatic Inflation-an economic indicator?
>Seems as if less than a year ago that a 4x5 grafmatic could be purchased on
>eBay for about $50-60 (in used condition) and a mint one for about $100. Now
>the darn things (in used condition) go between $75-100 and mint ones just about
>ridiculous.
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Overbidding on ebay - A gripe
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000
From: auctionfan@aol.com (AuctionFan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Overbidding on ebay - A gripe
Newsgroups:
rec.photo.marketplace,rec.photo.marketplace.35mm,rec.photo.marketplace.medium-fo
rmat
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999
Subject: Re: Ebay Strategy
>It is, in fact, against the rules for a good reason. There is an
>unscrupulous shilling technique that makes use of it.
From: ems maskmanspammed@pacifier.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format
Subject: Re: Ebay Strategy
> I bought one of those sniping software. from this guys of ebay.
> What a load of crap. The program is full of bugs and routinely crash ifthe
> value or instruction you inputed is not right.
>
> Anybody know other software that is better.
>
> Mine i think is called auction navigator or some sort from abacus software or
> something like that. i got it last years and used it one time and it has been
> so flaky that i didn't bother with it anymore.
>
> SOfjan
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item;=236352214
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000
From: Terry Price camera@qsilver.net
Subject: [Rollei] eBay and prices, up and down.
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000
From: Vladimir Charchuk heavymtl@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: [KOML] 180mm lens
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000
From: Mel Brown melbrown@eatel.net
Subject: Re: [KOML] 180mm lens
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000
From: Jan jab@bios.de
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rolleikin
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: ripoffs, ebay etc. Re: [Rollei] Rolleikin
> You have to be careful on eBay. I have bought many items there but mostly
> $10-$30 items like old movie cameras or accessories for my Rollei 35mm SLR.
> Several times I have made purchases for over $100 but will only do so if
> the seller is an 'established business' (what ever that means) and takes
> credit cards. That way there is some recourse if there is a problem. You
> see a lot of items saying 'I don't know if this works or not.' meaning this
> peice of crap is deader than a door nail, but I want your money anyway.
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000
From: Andre am1000@videotron.ca
Subject: Re: ripoffs, ebay etc. Re: [Rollei] Rolleikin
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000
From: Matthew Phillips mlphilli@hsc.vcu.edu
Subject: [Rollei] Re: ripoffs, ebay etc.
M.Phillips
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000
From: David Seifert dseifert@zyan.com
Subject: Re: ripoffs, ebay etc. Re: [Rollei] Rolleikin
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000
From: David.Clark@Walsworth.com
Subject: [Rollei] Re: Ebay
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: seller ripoffs Re: ripoffs, ebay etc. Re: [Rollei] Rolleikin
>From: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
>To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
>Subject: seller ripoffs Re: ripoffs, ebay etc. Re: [Rollei] Rolleikin
>Date: Sat, Apr 1, 2000, 12:19 AM
>
> finally, some fraction of EBAY buyers seem to like winning auctions, but
> not actually paying for the stuff. Not only do you lose out on time, but
> you may have to pay for the listing fees and other costs plus delays etc.
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000
From: Jon Hart jonhart51@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT auction returns.
> Javier makes the point that Ebay auctions have
> inflated prices of Rollei
> equipment. Maybe it's just a larger market,
> competing for a fixed amount of
> cameras. John
from Deepinaharta, Georgia
From: "David Foy" nomail@thisaddress.please
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Lower Prices For Used TLRs
From: "Mr. N" n@notforreal.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: What is up with Ebay camera auctions?
>Have any of you followed any of these auctions
From: eosman@aol.com (Eosman)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: ebay???
>Rick... Not knocking your camera but the prices found on ebay are a very
>poor guide to the real value of something. It is common knowledge that some
>items are sold there for more money than the same item can be purchased for
>at retail.
>Why dont you auction the ETRS off on ebay and get more money for it?
>Why sell it for less here?
From: "Tony Zoccolillo" tonyzoc@dreamscape.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: ebay???
Pentax Super Takumar 35mm f/2 (Mint) with caps, hood and cases...$112.50
Pentax Super Takumar 85mm f/1.9 (EX+) ...$67
Pentax Super Takumar 200mm f/4 (EX+)...$70
Rolleiflex SL35 with 50mm Xenon....$63
Pentax SV body (EX)...$37
Tony Zoccolillo
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000
From: Bill m6rf@yahoo.com
Subject: [Leica] Interesting SCAM
From: "Ken Burns" kenburns@twave.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: landscape / archetecture lens advice needed
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Nicholas O. Lindan" nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sun Mar 04 2001
[1] Re: This is just stupid.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item;=1217452495
>
> US$155 for a Diana.
> Why?
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001
From: " Neil Brown" neilb@telalink.net
Subject: Re: Re: Ebay Experience and Alternative Sourcing
Neil
From Rangefinder Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 21-May-2001
From: Paul Franklin Stregevsky stpaul@erols.com
Subject: EBay Camera Quality
Poolesville, Maryland USA
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001
From: Jonat3648@aol.com
Subject: thrift shops
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001
From: Polak187@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RF List] E-bay!#&$$$$$
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Kalart Focuspot for Rolleiflex
> From: Gerald Lehrer jerryleh@pacbell.net
> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001
> Subject: Re: [Rollei] Kalart Focuspot for Rolleiflex
>
> Be careful of this eBay seller. He had an
> item for " Buy it Now" at a fixed price. I bid
> that price, but eBay told me that I can still
> be outbid! What gives?
From: "Werner Drechsel" wdrechsel@sprint.ca>
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net>
Subject: [HUG] Hasselblad on ebay
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002
I just read David Hodges' comments on ebay purchases. I bought a 500 C/M =
body advertised as "Mint" and had to spent $250 to unjam the body. In 3 =
separate ebay transactions I got a A12 back, a Leica screwmount body and =
a Nikkor 15mm lens all advertised as "Mint" and guess what, another $500 =
to service them. Even the Dispute Resolution process does not force the =
seller to take back these goods. I agree, stick to a dealer, spent the =
extra money, its worth it.
Werner Drechsel