Related Local Links:
Camera Repair Book Resources
Flashbulbs
Related Links:
High Speed Flash How-TOs
High Speed Flash Photo Pages (trigger circuits)
How to Test Voltages.. [8/2002]
Paramount's Voltage Protected Synch Cords (see note)
Strobe Trigger Voltages Listings (handy!) [8/2002]
Wein Safe-Sync (Central Camera)
Wein Safe-Sync (flash trigger circuit) [Saunders]
Warning! Some older electronic flash units used a simple flash trigger
circuit design that can expose your camera to voltages as high as 600+
volts. Many electronic cameras will burn out their electronics if exposed
to voltages over 250 volts. Some cameras will burn out if exposed to
voltages much over 30 to 50 volts, depending on their electronics.
Check your manual or call your camera dealer to see what the limits are
on your camera model.
Caution: If you feel unprepared to perform the voltmeter tests
below safely, take your strobe into your local camera dealer or camera
repairshop. Most will be happy to test the strobe for you, especially
since it may result in a sale of a new strobe to you!
In the newer electronic cameras, the camera designers assume you are
using a similar late model electronic flash or strobe. The newer
electronic flash units have a bit of electronics circuitry (usually an
SCR or TRIAC device) which lets the electronic camera trigger and control
the strobe without being damaged.
Even if your electronic camera strobe firing circuit can handle 250 volts,
your TTL logic flash contacts may not. If you manage to short the low level
logic voltage contacts to the strobe's higher voltage levels, you can
again fry the electronics on some cameras. This problem is most common
when you are putting the strobe on or off the camera. On some strobes,
the center high voltage terminal might be wide enough to short out the logic
level contacts (usually to the side(s) of the center contact) as you
mount or dismount the strobe. If that happens, high voltages exceeding
some logic circuit designs could be shorted into those circuits,
destroying them and causing another major camera repair.
Some folks think that since they have already used their older flash
without burning out their electronic cameras, they must be okay and safe.
My point above is that may not be true. All it may take is jiggling your
strobe a bit, when it is fully charged up, and shorting out some contacts
on your camera to fry the camera electronics. This problem could be an
accident waiting to happen to you too. Again, the solution is to
check to ensure that your strobe and electronic camera are fully compatible.
We also offer some safety tips in the box below.
Some camera companies put protective electronic devices on all their
strobe mount contacts to prevent such disasters. Check your camera manual
to make sure, or your camera dealer if not in the manual (often their
repairpersons can tell you if such problems exist in your camera model too).
|
Hint: Turn off your Strobe before Mounting or Removing it from your
Camera Use the flash "test" button to discharge any remaining high voltages before Mounting or Removing Strobe |
|---|
Check the manual, if you have one for your strobe. The manual should
state the maximum trigger voltage. Note that fresh batteries may result
in substantially higher voltages than more used batteries. So use a fresh
pair of batteries, or a fully charged battery in our tests below to be sure.
You should have some experience in working around high voltage circuits
before doing these tests. You don't want to let your body become a
conducting path between these high voltage points, either by touching them
directly or touching the probes in contact either. You also don't want to
be grounded or touching any appliances or other conducting objects
possibly plugged into grounded outlets. Working on an insulated surface
(wood table..) is mandatory too. If in doubt, let someone with the
requisite experience and safety training do these tests for you! Safety
first!!
With the strobe or flash off the camera, turn it on and let it charge up.
Use the highest DC voltage scale (usually 1,000 volts) on a high impedance
voltmeter (analog or digital). Carefully press one of each of the voltage
probes of the voltmeter across the hot shoe contacts - center and edge -
taking care not to short them out. If your strobe or flash uses a PC or
similar cord, you can measure using the center and ring contacts on the
PC connector (or other contacts). You may see a voltage reading
ranging from as little as 250 volts to as high as 600
volts on some older strobe models. Newer strobes may have no voltage on
these contacts (the logic voltage needed is supplied by the camera) or a
lower level voltage of around 5-12 volts, depending on their design.
Be careful not to short out the probes to any extra contacts that
may be used on some camera specific strobes for TTL flash or other
electronic display uses. Generally, the problem strobes and flashes with
killer high voltages are older models with only a single central contact
in the hot shoe mount. Moreover, the lower cost the strobe, the more
likely that a simple triggering circuit without an SCR or TRIAC is used,
and the more likely that higher voltages will be present.
If you need to test a studio or higher end professional strobe, please
refer to your equipment manual for details. Indeed, if you have a camera
manual, it may or should have this information, along with any other
important cautions and you should refer to it directly if available.
But if you must use it, consider using your strobe or flash with a
special adapter device that has an SCR or TRIAC in it. Some camera
accessory suppliers such as Porter's Camera Store have such adapters for
sale ($20 up typically). In these designs, the electronics (mainly an SCR or
TRIAC) use the low level electronic camera signals to trigger the strobe
via an electrically isolated set of contacts capable of handling the 250
to 600+ volts of your strobe. Ratings may vary somewhat, so check the
specs of the adapter.
Another alternative is to use a smaller strobe on the camera which has
lower safe triggering voltages to trigger your other flash or strobe(s).
To do this, you may need a "slave trigger" adapter. These "slave
triggers" have a light sensor and electronics (again, often an SCR or
TRIAC) that can trigger your killer high voltage strobe while off-camera.
So your electronic camera is safe, since it never sees the higher
voltages as the light flash from the small safe strobe is used to trigger
the larger high voltage one(s). Again, such adapters are available from
camera accessory sellers (e.g., Porter's Camera). You can also make them
inexpensively with Radio Shack parts, using circuits in electronic
project books sold by Radio Shack or from sundry magazine articles or web
sites.
You can purchase some multiple strobe triggering devices, letting you
connect up to 7 or more strobes to one camera at a time. Most of the newer
models use logic level triggering strobes, and can also be fried by
mixing in a high voltage killer strobe. Check instructions carefully.
If in doubt, only use the recommended models of strobe(s) unless the
manufacturer states your strobe model is "safe".
| Older Vivitar 283 Strobes have up to 600 Volts...(see post below) |
|---|
| Myron at Nikon USA mentioned that "older 283 units had trigger voltages as high as 600 volts..." Please be clear about this, he said older, not recent or current Vivitar 283 units. I am hazarding a conservative guess that "older" refers to units made more than five years ago. |
Well meaning folks will tell you that it is safe to use a Vivitar 283
strobe on your new electronic camera because their Vivitar 283 strobe
works with the same version camera.
But they don't realize that you may have a very different strobe
electronics, even if the strobe has the same model number. You find this
out the hard way by using the killer high voltage old model of the
strobe on your new electronic camera, frying the electronics. Ouch!
Vivitar isn't alone in making these upgrades over time, but is common and
so a good example of this potential problem issue. I have also seen pro
strobes that have been modified and then resold create problems for later
owners. The recommended voltage testing and camera manual compatibility
checks is the best way to avoid these surprises that I know.
You may also find a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier) or triac based
circuit which will safely use lower voltage from the camera to trigger the
killer voltage strobes directly. These modules may or may not need an
independent battery supply, depending on their design. A similar circuit
is sometimes used to trigger two or more strobes, each hooked up to its
own SCR, each of which is triggered by the original pulse from the camera.
Check also to see if there are alternate "feet" or mounting modules for
your strobe. Many strobes have different modules to mount the same basic
electronic flash unit onto different cameras with different electronic
trigger setups and "idiot" lights. You may be able to get a low voltage
trigger module to replace a high voltage base on some strobes.
Many electronic cameras will suffer expensive damage if subjected to
voltages over 250 volts, in some cases a lot less. Check your camera
manual to be sure!
Don't use a high voltage trigger strobe on an electronic camera
without using a protective adapter or "slave trigger" adapter.
Be careful when mounting or removing your strobe. It is best to turn the
strobe off before doing so in each case. Drain the strobe capacitor's
(including those in the trigger circuit) of (most) of their charge by
pressing the "test" button to discharge the strobe.
Notes:
For trailing flash synch circuit see Photo-techniques in Modern Photography September 1987 p. 16 (uses 556 chip).
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] 6008 Flash problems
>I had the same problem with my 6008i -- my studio setup wouldn't fire if it >was hooked up via a sync cord, but a nikon shoed flash that I plugged right >into the camera worked fine. > >What I found out? The sync cord on the 6008i is polarised -- if I took the >two-pronged cord out of the socket on the pack and rotated it 180 degrees, >the flash would fire. > >Not sure why this is. Now I just know the direction the cord has to point >to ensure the flash fires. > >Warren
Warren,
This is true with most cameras using solid-state switches to trigger
flash.
Unfortunately, flash makers never standardized polarity on studio units.
They did on hot shoe units, so no problem with them.
I solved this and some other problems in my studio years ago by just
getting rid of synch cords completely. All my flash systems are connected to
Wein infrared triggering systems. The little triggering unit is an
infrared flash unit with hot shoe, so it works on any camera with a hot
shoe. It also
comes with a cord, so you can hook it to cameras without hot shoe.
This has the added advantage to me that when I am teaching my lighting
workshops I can have three sets going at once and they don't trigger each
other. I use the multi channel Wein system, and could theoretically have
five sets going at once if I wanted.
No synch cords to trip over, either!!!!
Bob
From: ed romney romney@edromney.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Vivitar 283 high voltage
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998
To bypass the problems described below why not have your camera fire a
small pocket strobe and trigger the big one held off camera with a slave
unit? . I love to do this. I learned to synch multiple flash bulbs long
ago mostly from studying Gordon Parks's excellent book "Flash Photography.
Later I transferred the technique to 283 Vivitars. I had a Metz once but
liked Vivitar better. Nothing looks any better than a picture shot with more
than one flash . I have shot many groups and banquet pictures with more
than a hundred people in some of them using multiple flash or strobe.
Incidentally a simple No 5 bayonet base bulb puts out more light than
almost any strobe a man can carry and they fire on 3 to 4.5 volts easily.
Best
wishes... Ed Romney
From Nikon Digest:
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998
From: SKMACLEO@am.pnu.com
Subject: Re: trigger voltages
Yesterday I received my brand new N90s, 24-120D and SB-28 and have
started reading the owners manuals.
Although I can't quote it exactly right now, there is a statement in the
recent N90s manual about the potential for damage if the camera is connected
to flashes employing over 250 volts. I suspect that this refers to
trigger voltage. Although I haven't followed the evolution of flash unit
circuitry, I'd
also suspect that any system utilizing 250 volts in the external trigger
circuit is a pretty old, but very powerful flash. Perhaps those of you
who are
closer to this could identify those units.
I've enjoyed reading this group and will have a few questions of my own
shortly unless the SB-28 manual answers them first.
Steve MacLeod
From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998
From: Anderson Neal F NSWC AndersonNF@ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Re: trigger voltages
Can't assume it's only big powerful flashes; I have a tiny peanut flash
that has over 250 volts trigger - I've put a label on it to be sure I
only use it on
old, tough Nikons. You have to measure to be sure.
Neal AndersonNF@ncsc.navy.mil Panama City, FL
From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Flash trigger voltages
To wit, Popular Photography (US camera magazine) measured the trigger
voltage of a popular flash, the Vivitar 283. One made about ten years ago had
a trigger voltage of about 211 volts. A new one only used about 10 volts
as a trigger voltage.
For those interested, the article in question is in the 5/99 PopPhoto, on
page 60.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999
From: Tybee Evans
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Flash trigger voltages
After reading the article I measured the
trigger voltage
on my flash units.
SB-16 with AS-8 5.8V SB-16 with AS-9 5.8V SB-20 5.1V Vivitar 283 281V (ouch!)
I just picked up a Coolpix 950. It has a 3 prong connector like the one
on my SB-16. The manual list several Nikon Speedlights that can be used
with it but the
SB-16 isn't on the list. Is there any reason I couldn't use it? If so,
what cord would I need?
Thanks,
Tybee Evans
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999
From: "Colin Povey" cpovey@paradyne.com
Subject: [NIKON] Flash trigger voltages
The little posting I sent the other day generated lots of questions to me
regarding possible damage to various AF cameras from high flash trigger
voltages. So, I
thought I would make one more posting on this subject.
Pre-AF cameras had no problems hundreds of volt to trigger a flash.
However, the electronic filled AF cameras of today are more sensitive.
To wit, Popular Photography (US camera magazine) measured the trigger
voltage of a popular flash, the Vivitar 283. One made about ten years ago
had a trigger
voltage of about 211 volts. A new one only used about 10 volts as a
trigger voltage.
They also listed the maximum safe trigger voltage for some cameras. They
implied these values came from the manufacturers.
Pentax: 600 Volts Nikon: 250 Volts (F4 and later. They did not say about earlier AF cameras, sorry) Minolta: 225 Volts Canon: 6 Volts (that's right, 6 volts).
So, even a brand new Vivitar 283 is not safe to use on an EOS! (small dig
at Canon)
I measured three flash units I had available:
Nikon SB-28: 6 Volts Metz 60CT-1 25 Volts (about 10-15 years old) Sunpack 411 12 Volts Readings made with a Fluke 83 Digital Volt Meter.
-----
To measure your own flash, do the following:
Use a volt meter with a rating of at least 20,000 Ohms per Volt.
Set to DC scale, starting at 1000 volts, to be safe. Turn to lower scale
as required.
Turn flash on and let come up to ready.
*** Point unit away from you!***
Touch one probe to side contact (would normally be touching the side of
the hot shoe).
Touch the other probe to the center contact of the hot shoe. Note
reading.
If you have a PC cord unit, simply use the outside and center contact on
the PC cord.
-----
I have been told by Speedotron (maker of studio strobes) that older
studio strobes (with an H plug) use high trigger voltages. Newer ones,
with a 1/4 inch phono
plug, use low voltage triggers.
If your flash exceeds the Nikon recommended 250 volts, you can use a Wein
Safe Sync to lower the voltage to 6 volts. This was tested by the
magazine and
worked as advertised.
Sorry about the slightly off topic post, but safety of our person and/or
equipment takes priority, and I do use these flash units on my Nikon
cameras (F through F5).
Colin
From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999
From: Andy Shaw andy.shaw@jhuapl.edu
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Trigger voltage limits: PC socket
> I believe that must be a typo as the figure I'ne always heard is > the max safe trigger voltage for the N90s/F110/F5 is 25volts.
No the maximum trigger voltage to not cause damage is 250V.
> I dont want to hold anything in my hands or near my face is not > grounded and has 250 volts surging through it.
NO.... this is wrong.
If you only touch one terminal of a device that is not grounded, then you
only define the ground (this is the basis for isolating transformers used
for safety), current
does not flow. If the device is grounded, then you take what ever
potential is relative to your ground (not necessarily the same).
The actual voltages within flash units can be much higher, but the sync
pin voltage (relative to the sync return) can be a few hundred volts or
just a few volts. With an
ISO shoe the return path is protected by the shoe so that unless you try
you *should* not get a shock. PC cords on the other hand are a great
source for shocks
(and I can personally assure you that they do hurt - and should be
handled with care even if the flash is turned off - especially if you
have a weak heart).
NB As with all "electrical advice" on the internet -- it is important
that you note that the above is NOT SAFETY ADVICE.
> The safety limit on Canon cameras is 6 volts, BTW.
Be careful about the use of the term "safety" here - the 6V limit is for
camera protection not for your safety - plenty of people get serious
burnt every year from 6V
and 12V lead acid batteries (as used in cars etc.) due to high current
(not high voltage).
Andy Shaw
From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999
From: Ellis Vener evphoto@insync.net
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Vivitar 283 trigger voltage.
Myron at Nikon USA mentioned that "older 283 units had trigger voltages
as high as 600 volts..." Please be clear about this, he said older, not
recent or current
Vivitar 283 units. I am hazarding a conservative guess that "older"
refers to units made more than five years ago.
From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 29 May 1999
From: "Robert Alan Siegel" rasiegel@tiac.net
Subject: [NIKON] flash trigger voltage again
Regardless of how you attach the flash, a voltage over 250 volts may damage
your camera. You may not need all the features of the expensive SB-28 --
look into other options but don't use the 283!
In reply to:
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999
From: Agpix@aol.com
Subject: [NIKON] flash trigger voltage again
I finally got around to measuring the trigger voltage on my Vivitar 283
flash, and it exceeded 250 volts. This would indicate that I should NOT use
this flash on current camera bodies with sophisticated electronics. I have
used it on my N8008 for several years with no problems. I also shoot with
an N70 and have been very reluctant to use it in combination with the 283.
My question - If the 283 unit is on a bracket and is sync cord plugged into
the socket of a hot shoe mounted AS-15, does that protect the camera? Also,
what if the 283's own remote sensor cord is in the hot shoe of the N70
(instead of the AS-15) - does that protect the camera?
From Nikon MF Digest:
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999
From: Gordon Pritchard gordonp@infoserve.net
Subject: Re: Vivitar 285HV Flash and Nikon MF Cameras
"Len" == Leonard Paris
I also enjoy my '283, in both formats too!
To put an end to the speculation, why don't you try the
following little experiment:
1) Fire up your flash, get it "ready".
2) Using a high-impedance voltmeter (ie a digital
multimeter), mesure the voltage on the flash foot,
between the center trigger-pin, and the contact at the
side of the foot.
This should give you your answer. You will be reading the
open-circuit trigger voltage for your '285, and you will *know*.
Once you have the trigger voltage, I'm afraid I'll be even
less help :-O I don't know what's safe for your Nikon, nor for
your Medium-Format gear.
Yup! I do the same, but found that I'll have to figure out
something different with my MD-12: the tripod-hole is 'way over
on the side, and my 'frame won't mount up. Maybe I should start
looking for an AH-3 "fix the wierdness plate"...
I also use my '283's with umbrellas, with very good results
(also non-TTL). Daylight fill-flash is another favourite of
mine. The only thing is that you're always having to use your
brain a bit to do the non-TTL figuring.
-Gord (I'd loan a meter if you were closer; heck, for beer,
I'd make the measurements :-) )
--
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999
Jack Ngan wrote:
...I used to use a vivitar 283 with my previous camera (it was a Nikon
6006) on manual with no problem. I have read lately that this is a bad
practice due to higher (much) trigger voltages and could fry the
electronic cameras. Pop. Photog. has an article in may '99 (last month)
on pg. 60 , explaining the dangers and test method to determine the
voltage of the unit in question. Hope this helps...it's not worth
frying an N90s over an old non-ttl vivitar. regards , Gary
From Nikon Digest:
Contrary to some recent postings, older flashes with high voltage in
the triggering circuit (circa 250 volts in many designs) CAN DAMAGE
some modern electronic camera designs, resulting in high repair costs.
A major part of the danger is during mounting/dismounting the flash when
it can brush against various low voltage circuits (LED lighting, TTL
etc), especially if the older flash still has a charge (hint: discharge
with test button before mounting or removing on any camera).
You can check your flash by putting a high impedance (10 meg or more)
voltmeter in DC mode, setting to a 1000 volt or similar scale, across the
flash contacts when it is turned on and charged up. I have seen up to 560
volts, but 250 volts is more typical, on older design flash contacts.
Such flashes should not be used IMHO on more modern cameras without an
adapter/foot that has a SCR or TRIAC to convert it to lower voltage
trigger design. These can be purchased as accessories for $15-25 from
places like Porters Camera...
Statements that all brand XYZ (e.g., nikon) cameras can withstand these high
voltages is almost certainly not correct. Many modern cameras get fried
every day with owners finding this out the hard way. In many cases, you
may have to work at it when mounting the flash (slightly offcenter may do
it), but you can potentially manage to inject 250 volts DC, often of the
wrong polarity, into a circuit designed for 5 volts or less logic voltages.
From Nikon MF Mailing List:
....
Well I took a voltmeter to my flash equipment, and I found:
Vivitar 3700 (12 years old?) ~15 volts
Well, that answers that I guess...
Paul Wossidlo
From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Yeah, I checked this out - I can't remember where but I think it was on a
Vivitar website. You can check if your Viv 283 is safe for newer
electronicically automated cameras by looking whether or not your Viv says
'made in china' on it or not. This is the definitive test.
Unfortunately I can't remember which way round it was now!
Vivitar can tell you whether your flash is a high voltage or low voltage
one. You can phone their customer support phone line or e-mail them.
Information on contacting Vivitar is on their website at
http://www.vivitarcorp.com/fotosupp.html
(If only Nikon would make contacting them this easy!)
Larry
From Nikon Manual Mailing List:
I can't quite remember how we left this during the discussion some time ago.
I finally got around to measuring the voltage at the shoe or pc terminals
(or both) of all my flashes, and although all the Nikons and most others
are OK (20v or below), I do have some older Vivitar 283's and similar which
measure between 400 - 600 volts. Are they still safe to use on an F, F2,
or on any Nikkormat? I guess I wouldn't use them on anything with an
electronically-controlled shutter, but that would also include a Nikkormat
EL. Would an older, higher voltage flash be safe on any Nikkormat,
including a Nikkormat EL, or Nikon EL?
- Rick Housh -
From Nikon MF Mailing List:
I have two Vivitar flashes of which I checked voltages on.
The first is an old Vivitar 225 I have been using this on my FM for
over 20 years. The voltage was as high as 180V. The 285 was
on the order of a max of 8V.
Ed Andersen
Date: 12 Jan 2000
For an authoritative answer, I just called Nikon customer support
(1-800-NIKONUS) and the guy told me the F3 can handle up to 250V
without damage. So my old 200V flash should be ok. (I measured the
200V with a quality high-impedance digital meter made by Fluke, so I
trust my reading.)
Thanks to those who responded.
By the way, I was very impressed by the guy at the phone desk. He
immediately knew exactly what I was talking about, and knew the answer
right away. He didn't try and tell me that "only genuine Nikon
speedlights should be used with your F3", or any such junk. Our total
conversation was 10 or 15 seconds, tops.
--Rich
[Ed. note: PCB warning etc below..]
Sounds to me like these units want high voltage batteries. These are not
widely available, and are quite expensive. Also watch out for old
electrolytic capacitors that have not been charged for some time.
Hopefully, you can "reform" these by gradually increasing the DC voltage
on the caps. If not, they are gone, and high voltage caps are expensive
(and hard to find) as well. Another caveat: Old electrolytics contained
PCB's (containing dioxin) and have been known to go off like a pistol shot
if they are shorted ( as might be the case if they have not been used in
some time.). If you are serious about using these units, you might want to
replace the caps, and build an AC supply unit to provide the 180VDC, or
510VDC, which ever is the case. Don't do this unless you have some
experience in high voltage engineering. A mistake could be fatal.
----- Original Message -----
From Nikon Mailing List;
I have checked with Nikon on the flash synch voltage; for the F-100 they
told me it is 250 Volts; that means it should be safe to use almost any
modern flash, portable or studio type. For the new N-80 it is 6 volts.
The Nikon flash units use a 6 volt trigger voltage. Interestingly, the
D-1's limit is only 6 volts, whether through the hot shoe or the PC
terminal! Almost mandatory that you need some sort of buffer (like the
Wein safe-synch or the Lumedyne unit) between the flash and a D-1.
Ron
From Nikon Mailing List:
Contrary to what Henry Posner wrote, any Vivitar 283 (and
presumably others as well) that has a high trigger voltage at the pc
terminals will have the same high voltage at the hot shoe if it is
used. It is easy to make a mistake about this because the when a
sync cord is plugged into the 283 the hot shoe is disabled - and
would not have a trigger voltage present. But if a 283 is of the high
trigger voltage type, that high voltage will be present at whatever
point is used to trigger the flash.
Vivitar made at least three different versions of the 283 flash. The
original version was made in Japan and had high trigger voltages.
The newest version is made in China, and all 283's made in China
have low trigger voltages. An intermediate model was made in
Korea. Early versions of the Korean model had high voltages at the
terminals while the latest versions did not. The country of origin is
marked on the bottom of the 283s next to the hot shoe.
Lawrence
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
I recently went to the Paramount site and noticed that they now offer
cords with a built in surge protector to reduce the sync voltage.
think its a great idea and wanted to share the info.
http://www.paramountcords.com/vp.htm
Jack
From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Hi Ed
There is a good article about non camera maker's flash units on page 60 of
the May 1999 Popular Photography magazine.
To quote a few sentences,
" But many of these electronically switched cameras can only be used with
flash units having low-sync voltage ( the voltage between the hot shoe's
center pin and the outside edge of the shoe). According to camera
manufacturers we contacted, Nikon AF camera hot shoes starting with the
Nikon F4 require flash units that have a sync voltage of 250 volts or
less. Newer Canon EOS cameras are reported as being limited to 6 volts or
less. Pentax AF cameras have maximum allowable voltages of 600 volts,
while Minolta Maxxum cameras' top voltage is 25 volts."
This really is a good article to read. Although I hardly think 250 volts
sounds like a low voltage sync to me.
Also, there is a specific recommendation for the type of voltage tester
to use, because some types will give incorrect low readings. I am not an
electrician and don't really know or understand anything about this.
Regarding the Vivitar 285's I had similar concerns when I bought a new
FM2n earlier this year. A respected repair person in my area said that it
would be possible for high voltage to damage the "ready light" circuitry,
but as someone else has pointed out there really is nothing else
electronic on this camera.
Also I called Vivitar back in April. They said that the old original 285's
are marked Made in Japan and they are of high voltage ( as someone else
suggested earlier here ). Then the ones marked Made in China are the low
voltage one ( 10 volts).
Then there are two models marked Made in Korea. The one marked on the back
for use with the SB-4 is low voltage and the ones marked for use with the
SB-6 are of high voltage.
All the HV models are of low voltage.
I purchased a new 285 HV at that time and I believe it to be a really
great flash for a low price. However, it is so very large! I rarely mount
it directly on my FM2, I use a bracket to hold the camera and flash
separately and use a synch cord. This works out quite well, it is much
easier to hold and no fear of the heavy flash damaging the hot shoe or
prism of the camera.
Good Luck
Larry Otto
[Ed. note: some good general info, but see following post
re: testing..]
Lets talk quickly about how a battery powered flash works, I'll talk
strictly of a full power strobe with no manual or automatic output
control.
When you turn on your flash the following events transpire:
1. An oscillator converts your DC battery voltage to an AC voltage of
approximately the same magnitude.
2. This AC voltage is connected to the primary windings of a step up
transformer producing an AC voltage of approximately 200 - 900 Volts
AC(depending on flash).
3. This AC voltage is now rectified back to DC and stored in a BIG
capacitor who's contacts are directly connected to the ANODE and CATHODE
of
the flash tube.
Now the stage is set for a flash of light, only one more component is
needed.
4. The 200-400 volts we spoke of in #2 is also used to trigger the strobe
tube and it is accomplished in the following way.
5. The 200-400 volts also charges up a small capacitor typically on the
order of .1 micro farad.
6. When you release the shutter on your camera, the voltage stored in the
small capacitor is dumped into the primary of a trigger transformer, which
will produce a secondary output (known as trigger voltage) of anywhere
between 1K to 15K VOLTS (depending on flash tube) .
7. The trigger voltage is connected to the trigger strap on the flash
tube. This high voltage instantly ionizes ( aligns all the + and -
molecules ) the ZENON gas inside the flash tube which causes the gas to
conduct electricity.
8. Because of # 3 above, 200-900 is dumped
across the flash tube causing a burst of white light.
Therefore, when you release your shutter what you are in affect doing is
to complete the circuit mentioned in #6. Older cameras which had a
physical switch which was closed at time of exposure, had no problem with
this voltage, but inside todays modern cameras the manufacturers warn
against such things.
What has happened now is that flash manufacturers use electronic switches
( SCR ) to make this connection, thereby only sending a low voltage to
your camera, also most camera manufacturers have taken some precaution to
prevent damage to their cameras from these high voltages but as you are
aware every manufacturer is different.
Measuring a voltage at your flash pc socket can present some difficulties,
there are a whole myriad of components that can be in that circuit which
will fool a typical volt meter.
What is required is an oscilloscope, which will give the most accurate
reading.
Good luck with your Vivitar 285.
[Ed. note: as pointed out below, easier to do than above post might
suggest...]
Len Paris wrote:
What Len and Don Doucette say is all true, in the general, theoretical
sense. However, if it were that complicated, measuring the quiescent
voltages with a high impedance peak-reading meter or oscilloscope wouldn't
be enough either. You'd have to measure the dynamic voltage changes which
occur during the cycle of firing and recharging the flash also.
Fortunately, in practice, we needn't concern ourselves with these
considerations. We're not designing a flash, only trying to distinguish
between two varieties of one model of one brand.
We know that, at some point in time, Vivitar redesigned each of the 283
and 285 models to be compatible with modern cameras. The trick is to find
out whether the sample at hand is one of the "new" ones or not.
In practice, when we are speaking of Vivitar 283 and 285 flashes, the
simple fact is that the ones that are safe only with earlier cameras
without sensitive electronics will measure hundreds of volts at the PC or
hot shoe terminals with a simple, inexpensive, low impedance VOM. If they
measure 25 volts or less at those terminals, that necessarily means they
are ones which Vivitar has specifically redesigned to be safe with modern
electronic cameras which are sensitive to high voltages. I've measured
dozens of both types (283 and 285) with a common, low impedance VOM, and
it's very easy to tell the difference between the "old" and "new" ones.
It isn't subtle.
If it is the later, redesigned model Vivitar has designed it to be safe,
and, in my experience, Vivitar can be relied on to have done it properly,
which makes this simple test a reliable one. I strongly suspect this
practical test also works reliably with the flashes of other reputable
manufacturers, such as Metz, Sunpak, Achiever, and others, but I have not
personally tested as many of them as I have Vivitars, so I can't swear to
it. It has been true of the ones I have tested though.
Furthermore, the "AF dedicated" flashes of reputable third-party
manufacturers should also be reliably safe, even without testing, as the
cameras they were specifically designed for all have electronic flash
interfaces, and have terminals other than the trigger terminal, which may
be even more sensitive to high voltages.
What I would be more concerned about is accidental connections with
auxiliary flash contacts caused by using one of these single contact
flashes on the ISO foot of a Nikon camera with more than a one contact. I
wouldn't risk that myself. Get an AS-15 (I think that's right) converter,
which mounts on the Nikon camera flash foot and has a PC connector for a
single contact flash, and use that, mounting the flash on a separate
bracket, which you should do anyway if you want decent results.
One final caution. If you don't know how to safely measure the voltages,
take the flash to someone who does know how and have them check it for
you. 250 volts or so can pack quite a wallop. It *probably* won't kill
you but it can be quite discombobulating for awhile.
- Rick Housh -
[Ed.note: another warning worth noting etc.]
I know what David is talking about re the ability of a flash circuit to be
dangerous. If anyone wants proof, just use an insulated screwdriver and
short a charged flash unit capaticor. It will look like some small metal
eating bug took a bite out of it (after the bang). Whenever I work on a
flash, I always discharge the capacitors-- several times. This is one of
the key reasons inexperienced people should never take an integral flash
camera apart-- touching the wrong place can potentially kill you if you
have heart problems, and hurt like hell if you don't. Those capacitors can
hold a charge a long time. (Although some of us may have fond memories of
charging up a cap and poking some hated enemy in the butt with it during
lab.) But I've never seen data relating to how much you can crank one,
still remaining within a reasonable safety zone. The reason is that I
would like to up the output of a ring flash, as opposed to constructing a
multiple flash array. Looks like I'll have to try it myself? The fact that
a single capacitor can generate multiple values for a flash is proven by
the Vivitar 283 Varipower module, which seems to limit the amount of
charge. By backing off the setting, you can get a 283 down to about
1/20,000 of a second-- at the cost of light, of course.
Elliott
From Photo-3D Mailing List:
um, I would be pretty hesitant to recommend adding a parallel capacitor to
an existing flashtube circuit. The main reason to be worried is that you
could potentially dump too much energy into your flash tube, causing it to
be damaged, and in some cases, fracture and "explode". You could also
damage and destroy the electronics by overly rapid recycling and firing.
Flash tubes are rated by how many watt-seconds they can handle, and
adding another capacitor can easily provide and dump enough current to
fry the tube and circuitry. Caps are only a few $$ and are not the power
limiting element in the flash - the flash tube is. Having high voltage
caps mounted outboard of a flash is also asking for trouble with getting
fried yourself without lots of care (e.g. heat shrink tubing) in setup
etc.
HTH bobm
From RF Mailing List
Regarding the issue of voltages at the flash shoe, just turn on the flash
and let it come up to power -- the "ready" light will be illuminated.
Then put your VOM to read DC Volts, put one lead on the side connection
(probably somewhat "in" the flash foot on the flash) and the other on the
main button tip on the bottom of the flash foot. Then read your voltage.
I stopped using a Vivitar 273 after I read a voltage of over 230 volts
across the contacts. In other words, the flash designers were putting the
entire voltage of the discharge capacitor across the flash circuit inside
the camera -- not smart. I now generally avoid buyng older flashes at
camera shows now, just because there's a very good chance that the trigger
voltage put into the camera is so high. I've not yet taken to skulking
around shows with my VOM and extra batteries in hand!
One person did mention the small unit that could be used to protect the
camera electronics (or, in the case of older cameras, simply protect the
flash contacts on the shutter curtains). I've not used one, as they cost
more than the old flashes I might want to use, but I remember reading a
review that said they did a good job.
Hope this helps. Dan
From RF Mailing List:
Dan;
Using your technique my 1984 vintage 283 reads 35 VDC. This unit is the
"Made in Japan" model.
Mark
From RF Mailing LIst:
Austin Franklin wrote:
That's the voltage across the flash terminals. The contact in the
shutter (or an electronic device in newer cameras) will short this
voltage. On older electronic flashes, the internal flash tube firing
voltage is several hundreds or even more than 1000 volts. The flash
circuitry builds up a voltage that is very close to that firing voltage.
The additional voltage of 100...200 volts will cross the firing
threshold of the flash tube. BTW, I once had an electronic flash with a
"wall transformer" charger. This charger had an additional output
voltage of approx. 150VDC, thus saving energy from the internal
accumulators when building up the firing voltage.
For cameras with a mechanical sync contact, this voltage will not pose
any problems. Electronic circuits are very sensitive to overvoltage. But
I think that using a high voltage thyristor circuit instead of a
mechanical contact might solve this problem. It is no problem to switch
hundreds or thousands of volts with all solid-state circuitry (even
inside a camera)without the risk of damaging any internals.
Winfried Buechsenschuetz
From RF Mailing List:
I'm not a real expert concerning electronic flashes. But from all what I
have heard or read about them, the internal circuitry builds up a
voltage that is very close to the trigger or firing voltage of the flash
tube. When the flash is triggered by the shutter contact, an additional
voltage is added to this, thus triggering the flash tube. This voltage
is pretty high, too, since the trigger voltage of the flash tube has
rather high tolerances. You are right as far as the voltage across the
flash terminals is not necessarily identical to that "internal" trigger
voltage, though obviously pretty often it is, as the measurement of more
than 200V across the terminals shows. Of course it is possible to use an
internal switch (solid state, of course) to release this internal
trigger voltage by using a low-voltage signal.
Winfried Buechsenschuetz
From RF Mailing List:
Here's a quote from the Nikonusers archive:
"Vivitar made at least three different versions of the 283 flash. The
original version was made in Japan and had high trigger voltages.
The newest version is made in China, and all 283's made in China
have low trigger voltages. An intermediate model was made in
Korea. Early versions of the Korean model had high voltages at the
terminals while the latest versions did not. The country of origin is
marked on the bottom of the 283s next to the hot shoe."
Does this help?
Richard
Craig Shearman wrote:
From RF Mailing List:
Regarding the issue of voltages at the flash shoe, just turn on the flash
and let it come up to power -- the "ready" light will be illuminated.
Then put your VOM to read DC Volts, put one lead on the side connection
(probably somewhat "in" the flash foot on the flash) and the other on the
main button tip on the bottom of the flash foot. Then read your voltage.
I stopped using a Vivitar 273 after I read a voltage of over 230 volts
across the contacts. In other words, the flash designers were putting the
entire voltage of the discharge capacitor across the flash circuit inside
the camera -- not smart. I now generally avoid buyng older flashes at
camera shows now, just because there's a very good chance that the trigger
voltage put into the camera is so high. I've not yet taken to skulking
around shows with my VOM and extra batteries in hand!
One person did mention the small unit that could be used to protect the
camera electronics (or, in the case of older cameras, simply protect the
flash contacts on the shutter curtains). I've not used one, as they cost
more than the old flashes I might want to use, but I remember reading a
review that said they did a good job.
Hope this helps. Dan
Dear Robert,
We recently viewed your page regarding high sync voltage.
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/flash.html
Paramount Cords offers a line of Voltage Protected sync cords. The
voltage reducing circuit is built in the cord itself. It would be
appreciated if you could put a link to our Voltage Protected cords page.
link www.paramountcords.com/vp.htm
Thank you in advance for your consideration.
With Best Regards,
Gary Rosenkranz
From Leica Topica Mailing List:
harrison@mcclary.net writes:
About 12V for most Vivitars. There is a discussion on one of the pages
that reports on the Canon G1 digital camera. These digitals take 6V
trigger voltages. The higher voltages will burn out the digital circuit.
In any case, most popular flash units are listed on the page by trigger
voltage. Here's the page:
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
br
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001
Robert Monaghan wrote:
Dittos.....
The Armartar and the Steussy were hybrides utilizing the best available
products for their time. Capacitors could drive flashtubes almost to any
height with the right connection but it takes the power to do it. The
additional power supply was as important to the flashtube process as was
the change in capacitor and the molding of the plastic caps.
Alternatives to that era were the bowling ball graflex strobes and the
Honeywells.
Most light at that time was for B&W; and a free tube gave you almost 360
degrees of highly specular coverage. Sharp Sharp pictures with softer
less contrasty films of today. And that I think was their demise. You
need softer light for the more contrasty films. Just not as popular
today as the emphasis is on diffused softer light.
The press loved them as much for the speed as the quality of the light.
Yes the older Japanese 283's wer a little stauncher in construction than
the more recent ones coming out of China and Malaysia...
For Bob;
I'm getting ready to revamp my website with new projects and ideas.
The Metz Jacobs 8 volt pack is running now. That will power the 6
battery jobs and catch this, those little monster digitals that use 8.4
volts like the Nikon 880, 775, and the new 995.
Also I got my hands on one of those Annsmann Chargers for the AA's and
what a nice unit. It got a switchable plug system that allows worldwide
usage and individual cell analysis. You know I hate AA's. but this unit
is different and so are the batteries. Im doing a write up on it
now....
Just made the double bracket for two 283's that cover like 21mm at f11.
Off the shelf parts, easy to build, really nothing at all but it places
two 283's on a light stand at about 10 degrees apart, one small peanut
slave a little wire and a jacobs six-banger. Cam also fit on a paintsick
for the wedding guys with real fast recycle time.
Alan
From: "Markus Keinath" keinath@gmx.de
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Flash slave plans needed
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002
Hi,
I'm sorry, I have only one link in english language:
http://misty.com/people/don/slave.html
And It is very complex.
On the german sites the drawing will help you probably more:
http://www.berlotti.de/index1.htm?http://www.berlotti.de/web/projekte/bl
itz.htm
http://dl1ock.bei.t-online.de/servoblitz.html
The later one, is the one I like most.
Markus
--
Keinaths Photohomepage
DIY repair and modification of photographic equipment
www.keinaths-fotohomepage.gmxhome.de
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002
From: John Hyde-Smith john@hydesmith.fsnet.co.uk
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: Flash trigger voltages
The thought of what my Vivitar 285 flash (which must be 20 years old by now)
might have done to my Nikon F4 is frightening indeed. When I first got the F4
I did use it a few times with the 285 with no apparent ill effects, but I won't
risk it again! I should perhaps mention that my 285 has been modified by being
fitted with a "Flash Foot One" made by Holly Enterprises of Van Nuys,
California, which means that there is no hot shoe connection, the flash has to
be connected via a lead to the PC outlet on the camera. In theory this should
mean that there is no interface between the flash and the camera electronics,
but better safe than sorry. I shall retain the 285 to use with my Rolleiflex
TLR, but with my Nikons (F4 and F-801s) I will only be using my Nikon SB25 or
SB22 Speedlights.
I am very glad that I came across your website.
John Hyde-Smith, Brighton, U.K.
From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002
From: "Aram Langhans" langhans@yakima-wa.com
Subject: [Leica] Flash trigger voltages (was: Metz 40-Mz on R8) now with R8 voltage
...
> I can find nothing about the maximum allowable trigger voltage in any of my
> instruction manuals; but I am given to understand that anything 12 Volts
> and under is fine with the R8.
Damn. I was just breezing by this thread, but good thing I looked a bit
more. I have lots of old flash units that I have yet to mount on my R8.
Good thing I didn't.
Quoting from the R8 manual: "All flash units and studio flash systems, that
are in accordance with the ISO standard 10330 and have a maximum ignition
voltage of 24V, can be attached to the Leica R8"
I did purchase a new Metz flash and have use it. This got me looking so I
tested my old flashes.
My workhorse small flash: Braun 2000/28BVC clocks in at 10.0 volts
My Vivitar ring light Macroflash 5000 clocks in at 3.0 volts
My workhorse large flash: Sunpak 611 has a hard time with the meter. It
keeps flashing. I did get one reading of around 30 volts, but I can't seem
to repeat it. Good thing I didn't use this flash. I'll have to get an
adapter for it.
I have a Sunpak 311 with a damaged PC cord (works on hot shoe) and a Rollei
flash at school I'll have to test after spring break. I've been loaning
them out to the kids. Good thing they have been using older cameras.
Great informative thread.
Aram
[Ed. note: thanks to Wally Snell for sharing these notes and tips...]
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002
From: Wally Snell wallys@txcyber.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Re: Sync voltage and added capacitors for Vivitar 283's
There's certainly been a lot of response to this topic! But.. here's one more,
for what it's worth.
I've been using 283's since they came out. I became aware of the high sync
voltage early on, using my hand-made flip bracket (no, Stroboframe wasn't
first) in damp weather. I would occasionally get an annoying zap when I
grabbed the upper section of the bracket with one hand while I held the
Nikkormat with the other. So I measured the voltage at the connection.. couple
hundred volts. Turns out the metal bracket provided an alternate path to the
sync. Back when Nikon had a professional service center in Garden City, they
said the voltage was no problem with their cameras. But I was alert when I read
the caution posted in the user's manuals of the newer cameras. I measured the
sync voltage of all my strobes and a number of them besides the older Vivitars
including Metz, Photogenic, Honeywell and Sunpak had pretty high voltage. So I
either use a slave tripper in the studio (no cords is much better anyway), or
the Wein Safe Sync modules with my non-dedicated flashes. I have on occasion
used higher voltage sync with several newer Nikons: N90s, 8008s, N65 and even
(I cringe to admit it) with my Fuji S-1 when it was unavoidable due to failures
or forgetfulness. There was no instant death of my cameras, no damage that I
can detect.. but I don't recommend this! Even though my electronics training
began back in the vacuum tube era, I know better and I diligently avoid
violating Nikon's voltage warning.
I also have two Vivitar 283's that I modified a number of years ago by adding
an extra capacitor which fills the battery compartment and a metal shoe to
eliminate mounting problems. I use external Quantum batteries or AC adapters.
By doubling the storage capacitors, I got almost (not quite) double the light
output. Normally, both the older and newer 283's only have a real guide number
of about 70-80 with ISO 100 film (they're overrated). The modified 283's get a
GN of about 140. This gives me essentially a full stop extra to work with.
Neither unit has had any problem and both have been perfectly reliable through
thousands of flashes. Recycle time is increased a bit, but not greatly with
the external power. They are very handy and compact units when I need to add a
little light here or there. They work great outdoors with the Vivitar variable
power module and a slave module on an aluminum stand with a small umbrella. You
can dial in as much extra fill as you need. Just use a flashmeter to
callibrate. They also pack easily as compared to a larger monolight.
-Wally Snell
From: "ajacobs2" ajacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Using older flashes on newer cameras? Amendment...
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002
Amendment: You don't have to trip the flash to get the reading, I wasn't
clear on that, I apologize, the word Cycle should be replaced by turning it
on and let it reach full power. You don't have to flash it.....
-----
Addenda: You don't have to trip the flash to get the reading, I wasn't
clear on that, I apologize, the word Cycle should be replaced by turning it
on and let it reach full power. You don't have to flash it.....
-----
Correction: You don't have to trip the flash to get the reading, I wasn't
clear on that, I apologize, the word Cycle should be replaced by turning it
on and let it reach full power. You don't have to flash it.....
-----
Update: You don't have to trip the flash to get the reading, I wasn't clear
on that, I apologize, the word Cycle should be replaced by turning it on
and let it reach full power. You don't have to flash it.....
-----
=====
Thank goodness for the word checkers here...Nevertheless..more info....
For those with meters:
Even the the cheapest Sperry meters go to 600V (the 19.95 one I'm holding
in my hand) and my 200 dollar Flukes go higher, and we are measuring the
shunt or tripping source not the capacitor output. After testing zillions
of these things fortunately I'm still alive and doing well thank you. After
building Honeywell Strobonar, Vivitar 1+ packs and Armatars and the
infamous car battery, the Graplex bowling ball ( weighed about as much as
one) one learns what to touch and what not to touch....currently ( pun )
there are no deaths reported from this simple test. Set 200-600 volts on
the meter, If the needle goes high on the scale, its obvious, If stays close
to null, it's probably OK.. No rocket scientist work here.
If you are afraid to do this:
Don't use public restrooms either...your chances of expiring are more
prevalent there.. watch those cracks in the pavements and never go under
ladders..... Take the strobe to a qualified technician or send it to me and
I'll check it out for free and pay the postage back, (yes you read it
right, FREE....probably clean the contacts (and check the oil and the
transmission fluid, but I will send it back Global Walkathon, slightly
slower than the US mail or Fedex ground, cheapest way)...I fix them all the
time......
With the power on it will give you the closing voltage....6-10 is the
variance amongst the tables of fifty or so flashes tested and is the
average...some were six, some eight and some ten. Simple six to ten....
Someone else has tested all these and has a table somewhere in Google.
Thats all you are concerned about... Those thousands of volts are isolated
from you unless you open things or do something other than using two probes
black on the side and red on the middle of the shoe with the power on and
read the meter.
Darn, what luck...
I found it and credit goes to it's author....you guys should bookmark his
page.
http://www.finchnest.com/house/photo/G1strobe.html
It's http://www.finchnest.com/house/photo/strobeVolts.html
For your reading pleasure and more informative news....
>From the Gospel of St. Paramount: (QUOTE:)
High sync voltage defined.
High sync voltage is any voltage in excess of the 6 volts recommended by
camera manufacturers. The voltage level determines the intensity of this
spark. Sync voltages around 20 or 30 volts DC are not immediately dangerous;
but can over time damage the camera's X-sync contact. Many older
non-dedicated flash units, especially studio strobes, have sync voltage in
excess of 50 to 60 volts DC. This voltage level is excessive for almost
every currently made camera and lens.
Some flashes may even generate voltage in excess of 200 volts. For example,
some Vivitar 283 's flashes generate 280 volts DC which can quickly damage
your camera's sync contacts.
From; http://www.chem.helsinki.fi/~toomas/photo/flash-faq.htmlElectric
Older manual strobes ( Good explanation of how they work)
Energy from a battery or accumulator (or other sources, such as household
current) is converted to high voltage (300 volts or more) and is used to
charge a capacitor. The converter often makes a high-pitch sound which you
can hear when the unit is charging. The capacitor is permanently connected
to two electrodes in a glass tube ("bulb") filled with xenon gas. At this
stage, the gas does not conduct electricity and emits no light.
Another, small, capacitor is charged at the same time as the big one. When
the flash unit needs to fire, this small capacitor is discharged through a
transformer, which generates a pulse of very high voltage (several thousands
of volts). This voltage is applied to a third electrode in the xenon tube.
The high-voltage pulse causes the gas to ionize. Ionization makes the gas
conductive, and the big capacitor starts to discharge through the xenon gas.
Bright light is emitted by the xenon gas during this process. Since the
resistance of the gas is very low at this stage, the discharge is rapid,
with the current following an exponential curve. About 1/1000 - 1/200
seconds later the capacitor is essentially empty, and the voltage has
dropped so low that the xenon stops to conduct electricity, and the light
pulse dies off. At this point, the process can be started from the
beginning. This mode of operation is often called "full power" or "manual
flash" and can, in theory, be achieved with any flash unit. (Unless 'clever'
electronics in the flash unit disallow it).
This is where one critic mentions the thousands of volts.......sheesh...
THYRISTOR circuitry later to become TTL, film plane readers and every
other cockamamie type of squelching circuitry..............
And bettrephoto.com said ( being super cautious )
If this is an *old* Vivitar 283, don't use it on any electronic camera,
digital or film. The flash's high trigger voltage on its sync contacts will
fry the camera flash trigger electronics. They were designed when cameras
used electro-mechanical and mechanical relays for flash triggering. If this
is a *new* Vivitar 283 (made within the past few years), its circuitry was
redesigned for a very low trigger voltage on the order of about 3 to 12
volts that's safe to use.
If you're experienced in using a voltmeter and have a high impedance one (1
Megohm or more) with a 1kv scale, you can measure it yourself. One contact
is the center one on the bottom of the foot and the other is along the side
of the foot. BE CAREFUL when measuring it and ensure you keep your hands
insulated from the metal tips on the probes! Measure for the high voltage
first after the flash is turned on and has fully charged. Vivitar is not the
only manufacturer. Most old flash units have high voltages on the trigger
contacts of 300 to 600 volts.
( Sound familiar )
>From Botzilla.com for you Canon Lovers who speak Canonese (says two
different things)
The trigger voltage is the amount of voltage between the strobe's two
primary hotshoe contacts (center pin and rail). This voltage will be
discharged by the strobe through the camera's hot shoe when the strobe
fires. Canon specifies no more than 6V trigger voltage for EOS cameras,
including the Powershots (this was verified by a phonecall to Canon USA's
tech guys...
But what about the ISO spec, that specifies 24V?
And as late as September 2001, Canon Canada claimed: "There is not a maximum
voltage requirement for the hot shoe terminal on the PowerShot G1."
Inconsistent to say the least not just with one another, but with the
real-world experiences of shooters). All Canon strobe units that I've tried
trigger within this 6V range, but some older or bigger non-Canon strobes can
have voltages ranging in the hundreds of volts!
When a high-voltage strobe is used, the capacitors used by the camera to
trigger the strobe can be progressively damaged. You might be surprised to
discover that some rather small, innocent-looking strobe units from
yesteryear can deliver high voltages. For example, my old Sunpak Auto 322,
powered by nothing more than AA batteries, delivers a finger-zapping 227V.
Now if you use Speedotron studio (BrownLine)
D604 Power Supply
Maximum power: 600Ws
System voltage: 900V
Trigger voltage: 70V
Trigger current: 0.000043A (43 micro-amps)
The system voltage does differ from the trigger voltage. We are measuring
the trigger shunt we are not sticking fingers into the capacitor.
As usual there are many opinions on this subject...after all this is a news
group. As they said in the old movies " Many big stories in the city or
something like that".....There are many I respect for their opinions and
cautions. There are also many who have never taken one apart.... But the
one that amazes me the most is getting information from a manufacturer who
isn't clear themself on what info they are puttiing out...and so far the
old venerable Vivitar 283/285 a thirty year veteran of the school of hard
knocks ( probably took more press photos than any other flash) is reported
from these articles alone to be 220/250/280/300 and possibly into the
thousand arena.....
Hey and the fun part is that four guys measured a Sunpack 383 ( another
favorite of the aftermarket crew ) and got four different readings... 3.74
to 10.9, With the factory at 6.85. Quality Uncontrol. I am not a big fan
of Sunpack......too hot, to centered, and too easily blown away...
Allowing for age of the capacitor, condition of the wiring ( did you know
that more 285 failed than 283's, simple more buttons and more complex wiring
down in the shoe which was placed and easily damaged.) how it was treated by
the owner, power supply, contact efficiency, etc....all contributed to the
variables of what they really cranked at. There is no definitive number.
Even new ones vary...I had a bench full and they differed. So much for
qaulity control.....
The price of aftermarket and cost effectiveness............
Almost anything built after the 90's used the low voltage tripper by
circuitry.. By the way, the high voltage in older cameras didn't fry
things, there was no pop, sparkle or blast. It caused severe Arcing and
carbon deposits formed eventually either bridging or burning the nodes
completely causing failure. We used to rebuild all the external synch
ports. Not so easy today...
Again a 19.95 meter will tell all.....
---
Al Jacobson
Website: www.aljacobs.com
From: "ajacobs2" ajacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Vivitar 285 hv trigger voltage
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002
and check the voltage of the HV unit which IS low, but check it anyway. The
HV's uses a shunt system so the voltage shouldn't exceed 8.3 volts average
but I have seen a few jumpers I repaired go open due to shorts....
Go to Parmountcords.com*, they;ll explain it there. Simple voltmeter and hot
to cenetr of the foot and ground to side contact with flash on. You do not
have to trigger it...
--
I wish you well,
Al Jacobson
Website: www.aljacobs.com
...
> Just wondering if any Rollei 6000 series users have experience with this
> flash? Will the trigger voltage harm the camera circuits? Also how would I
> use it? just attach the flash hotshoe to the side of the camera and connect
> the PC cord?
[Ed. note: * should be http://www.paramountcords.com as in above URLs in this page]
From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002
From: "Charlie" chinh11@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Flash trigger voltage
Hi
Vivitar is noted for changing the internal specifications of their flashes
without notification. So if one 5600 has less than a 6 volt trigger, it doesn't
mean that yours does. The one I tested had a trigger voltage that was too high.
Whatever you do, do not put it on your camera until you have tested your flash
and it found that it's trigger voltage is low enough. Canon specifies 6 volts
max (Idon't know yours). However anything less than 10 volts is probably safe.
Accumulated use of a flash with a moderatly high trigger voltage may damage
your camera. If the flash trigger voltage is very high it could fry your camera
with one use.
The bottom line is, get a volt meter & test it.
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1strobe.html
----- Original Message -----
From: William Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002
Subject: [camera-fix] Flash trigger voltage
Does anyone know what the trigger voltage on a Vivitar 5200/5600 runs?
TIA,
JeffW.
From rollei mailing list:
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002
From: Dan Kalish kaliushkin@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Flash for SL-66, Automat
...
> > This is the URL I was refering to:
> >
http://www.metz.de/1_metz_2000/m_pages_english/main_index_e.php3?link=4⊂=5&linkname;=mecablitz
> >
> > The Faq about using the CT 1 with auto focus camera says that flashes with a
> > serial number lower than 534,000 uses the high ignition voltage. These high
> > voltages can seriously damage modern electronic cameras. Your cameras are
> > safe since they trip flashes mechanically. Just don't use these old flashes
> > on a 6008 : )
> >
> > Siu Fai
> Well, that explains something else. When I first got a Nikon F (last
> November) and used it with a hot-shoed Minolta flash, I got a painful shock.
> The dealer, Ken-Mar, said it was because of my "shitty little" flash. He
> provided a cap for the pc jack and lost at least one customer. The shock
> didn't occur with a Nikon SB-15 speedlight.
Confirmed. The Minolta and Hanimax flashes can get up to 200V DC; the Nikon
SB15 only goes to 4V DC.
Dan Kalish kaliushkin@att.net
Flushing, Queens, NYC, USA
From rollei mailing list:
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002
From: Gene Johnson genej2@cox.net
Subject: [Rollei] Vivitar 283- watch out
I had some flash problems with one of my Kiev 6C cameras while I was out
shooting the other night which seemed to get worse as time went on. Thanks to
Jerry's getting me to the Paramount website, I think I have the very sad
explanation for the problems. One of my 283's ate my synch contacts in the
Kiev. It gets worse. While trying to troubleshoot, I moved the flash in
question to another Kiev body. At first it seemed to work on the new body.
Three times it flashed normally. Then no more. Contacts gone in that body
too. Now that I know what caused it I feel really dumb. When I checked it
that particular 283 showed 280 volts across the foot contacts when charged. My
Rollei was not subjected to this because it was wearing a Rolleiflash all
night. Please, Please Please. Before using an old 283 check the voltage as
mentioned. My usual 283 shows 8.5 volts under the same conditions. There is a
link on the Paramount website which gives a pretty good summary of what's going
on. I knew some of the old 283's were "hot", but I thought they could only
damage modern "electronic" cameras. Not so daddy-o.
Gene
from rollei mailing list:
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Vivitar 283- watch out
Gene Johnson at genej2@cox.net wrote:
> I had some flash problems with one of my Kiev 6C cameras while I was out
> shooting the other night which seemed to get worse as time went on. Thanks to
> Jerry's getting me to the Paramount website, I think I have the very sad
> explanation for the problems. One of my 283's ate my synch contacts in the
> Kiev. It gets worse. While trying to troubleshoot, I moved the flash in
> question to another Kiev body. At first it seemed to work on the new body.
> Three times it flashed normally. Then no more. Contacts gone in that body
> too. Now that I know what caused it I feel really dumb. When I checked it
> that particular 283 showed 280 volts across the foot contacts when charged.
> My Rollei was not subjected to this because it was wearing a Rolleiflash all
> night. Please, Please Please. Before using an old 283 check the voltage as
> mentioned. My usual 283 shows 8.5 volts under the same conditions. There is a
> link on the Paramount website which gives a pretty good summary of what's
> going on. I knew some of the old 283's were "hot", but I thought they could
> only damage modern "electronic" cameras. Not so daddy-o.
>
> Gene
Wein Products makes a gadget called Safe Sync which can be used with old
flash units like these. It drops the voltage down to 6V. There are shoe
mount versions and PC cord versions. I use one whenever using one of my
older flash units.
Bob
From rollei mailing list:
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Vivitar 283- try a cap?
you wrote:
>Hey Gene, sorry about your Kiev, but I'm sure you'll be able to pop that
>thing open and clean up those contacts.
>
>Maybe a small value capacitor across the flash contacts in the camera would
>keep this from happening. You know, like the cap across auto ignition points?
>I'd use something rated at least 500v-1kv (Radio Shack has a .01mfd 1kv
>ceramic jobbie that may work).... much cheaper than buying one of those flash
>"isolator" thingamajiggys.
>
>Good Luck,
>Chris L.
A capacitor may make things worse. The best method of preventing arcing
and protecting the contact is a combination of a series resistor and a
voltage limiting diode. I suspect just using a high value resistor in
series may be enough. Probably the flash trigger does not use much current.
I would start with maybe 20K ohms. I haven't checked my old 285 for voltage
but it looks like I should. It works on Kodak Flash Supermatic shutters,
which have an internal resistor of something like 5K or 10K in series with
the strobe contact (there is another contact for flash bulbs) so should
work with a high value resistor.
Paramount cord sounds like the most elegant way of dealing with this but
any cord could be modified to contain the resistor which could be covered
with tape or heat shrink tubing.
I think Vivitar should pay for getting cameras repaired since there is no
warning that this could happen. If some have low voltage at the flash
trigger it suggests that something breaks allowing the higher voltage. Not
very good design.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
From minolta manual mailing list:
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002
From: "Bill Kean" wjkean@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: x570 and old Vivitar Flash (voltage)
Hi,
I do not know if anyone has actually done it but the word on the street is
do *not* use the high voltage flash with your X-570.
See entries in
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
for both Vivitar and Minolta flash guns.
Having said that there is no warning in the Minolta manual about high
trigger voltage flash guns. The X-700 repair manual specification section
says 'hot shoe ... with electric shock prevention device' but I do not know
what they mean by that.
Bill
>I have an old SRT 101 and recently bought a used X570. Many years
>ago (1970's), I bought and used a Vivitar 283 auto flash with my
>SRT. Worked well, never had any problems. Still woks. However,
>before I try it on my X570, I am concerned about the use of a high
>trigger voltage flash with the newer camera. (This flash does have a
>high trigger voltage)
>Does anyone know if the X570 is able to use flashes with high trigger
>voltage without damage to the sync or other circuits in the camera?
>
>Thanks
>Tom
From minolta manual mailing list:
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002
From: "dagphoto" bmrdave@airmail.net
Subject: Re: x570 and old Vivitar Flash (voltage)
Try a Wein Safe Sync hot shoe adapter. There are several kinds, one
with only a PC connection, and one with the one you would want, with
a PC connection and a hot shoe. At B&H; (www.bhphotovideo.com) type
in safe sync in the search box and it will list the available models.
It will lower the voltage at the hot shoe to 6V.
from rollei mailing list:
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: Vs: Vs: [Rollei] Re: camera killer flashes
Raimo Korhonen at raimo.m.korhonen@uusikaupunki.fi wrote:
> I have not heard/read that the other ones have trigger voltages as high.
I don't know what in the world you read, Raimo. Old flash units tend to
have high trigger voltage regardless of where they were made. There are old
Metz, Multiblitz, etc., which will fry modern cameras.
Bob
From rollei mailing list:
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] 283 Korea Good, Japan bad
Gene Johnson at genej2@cox.net wrote:
> Raimo may be right,
>
> My low voltage 283's are made in Korea. High voltage ones from Japan.
Vivitar 283 flash units have been made in four places. First Japan, then
Taiwan, later Korea, and most recently in China.
Bob
From nikon manual mailing list:
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002
From: wdshpbiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: How safe is the Vivitar 283?
Alex,
Whether the 283 is high voltage or low voltage matters not to the Nikkormat.
There is no complex circuitry to fry in the Nikkormat. The flash connections
are simple wire and metal contacts that were designed to stand up to the
ordinarily high flash trigger voltages of the time. Only later camera models
with more complex flash circuitry are in danger from high-trigger-voltage
flash units. However, based on your test, I suspect your flash is not one of
the high voltage units, so the question may be moot.
William Sampson
http://hometown.aol.com/wdshpbiz/AImod.html
From nikon manual mailing list:
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002
From: Daz729 daz729@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: How safe is the Vivitar 283?
Hi Alex,
I would like to answer your question as follows:
1. I own a Vivitar 283 flash that has been used on my
Nikon F2 for many years without a problem to the
camera.
2. I have measured the voltage across the pc contacts
on the 283 with a digital voltmeter. I read almost
300 volts dc when fully charged. I also own a Vivtar
285 flash and the measured voltage is less than 10
volts dc.
Hope this helps.
Al
--- Alex Hurst corkflor@iol.ie wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I'm asking this question here as I haven't been able
> to get a
> satisfactory answer elsewhere.
>
> I came across an old 'Made in Japan' Vivitar 283 in
> my cupboard
> recently, which I thought would go well with an
> ancient Nikkormat I
> keep at work to record some of the better bouquets
> and arrangements
> produced by my wife and her team.
>
> However, it would appear that this particular early
> model produces
> very large voltages across the flash contacts - of
> the order of 300v
> plus. Later models apparently were re-designed to
> produce much lower
> voltages - these were made in China/Korea.
>
> This intrigues me, since testing the hotshoe with
> the flash fully
> charged produced a consistent reading of only 10v
> using a digital
> voltmeter. What am I doing wrong?
>
> Questions:
>
> Is the high voltage at the contacts only produced
> when the flash goes off?
>
> Is this going to fry the contacts on the Nikkormat
> if it's used too often?
>
> Looking forward to your collective wisdom, as
> electronics certainly
> isn't my forte.
>
> Best
>
> Alex
from camera fix mailing list:
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003
From: "rudge65" nisu@prodigy.net
Subject: Re: trigger voltage and flash units
apparently early film cameras seem to be unaffected by problems
concerning trigger voltage. However late model camera equipment
whether silver or digital are in fact seriously affected by the use
of a non-compatible flash unit. I know of two cases, an F-3 Nikon and
an A-1 Canon that were "fried" by the wrong strobe unit. WARNING!
Spend the money and buy the manufacturers' OEM flash unit for the
camera you plan to use, thus avoiding expensive repair bill!rudge65
From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003
From: Gene Poon sheehans@ap.net
Subject: Re: Re: trigger voltage and flash units
rudge65 wrote:
> apparently early film cameras seem to be unaffected by problems
> concerning trigger voltage. However late model camera equipment
> whether silver or digital are in fact seriously affected by the use
> of a non-compatible flash unit. I know of two cases, an F-3 Nikon and
> an A-1 Canon that were "fried" by the wrong strobe unit. WARNING!
> Spend the money and buy the manufacturers' OEM flash unit for the
> camera you plan to use, thus avoiding expensive repair bill!rudge65
ANY camera with hardwired mechanical contacts for flash triggering are
safe with any flash unit, including those with up to several hundred
volts on the trigger pin. This obviously includes any all-mechanical
camera.
SOME electronic cameras are built this way and are also compatible with
any flash unit. The Pentax LX is an example; its flash circuitry is a
hybrid of a mechanical contact for triggering, and separate, isolated
electronic contacts for controlling TTL flash, flash override, etc.
No matter what combination one uses, it is still very good practice
before mounting a flash to (1) turn it off at the power switch, (2) set
the flash to MANUAL exposure, (3) fire it using the TEST or OPEN FLASH
button to discharge the internal circuitry as much as possible, and (4)
turn off the camera's electronics at the power switch (if any).
-Gene Poon
from camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003
From: Stephen Castello scastello@cfl.rr.com
Subject: Re: Flash trigger voltage, Synch'ing for digicams
..
>Also, what would be the safest voltage to work with when synching digital cameras? I have one equipped
with a hotshoe, and not all shoemount units would fire with it. Some would spontaneously fire the moment it is
slid into the shoe. What would this indicate? I have heard of "safe-synch" devices which allow the use of almost
any flash unit with digital camera flash circuits. Would anyone have a DIY schematic for such a device?
>
>Jay
You can make one:
http://www.mitraphoto.com/SafeSync.jsp
Or get one of the Wein adapters.
Stephen
From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003
From: Gene Poon sheehans@ap.net
Subject: Re: Flash trigger voltage, Synch'ing for digicams
...
The actual trigger signal that sets off the flashtube internally is
generally about 300 volts; a flash unit can either connect this directly
to the flash sync terminal or hot foot, or, as on many newer flashes, it
can be isolated by a separate circuit that shows a much lower voltage to
the camera circuitry.
The voltage your camera "sees" can be measured at the hot foot or flash
coupling mount with a voltmeter. Be very careful, especially when
measuring older flash units that do not isolate the hot foot with a
separate interface circuit; most older flash units lacking any kind of
dedication run high, and 300 volts can definitely hurt you. Example:
older Vivitar 283, mainly the Made In Japan ones, have 330 volts on the
hot foot. The Chinese-made ones and all Vivitar 285 that I have run
across, run much lower, due to isolating circuitry. Almost anything
that has dedication to a specific camera will also be isolated and show
a much lower voltage to your camera.
You should check with the manufacturer of the camera to find the safe
limit for the voltage on the flash connection. Those cameras with
hard-wired tungsten contacts to fire the flash are safe to hundreds of
volts. Those new electronic ones that use switching transistors, etc.,
are not. Canon, for example, says you should not use anything over six
volts. An old Vivitar 283 at 330 volts would probably cause major
damage if you interfaced it with an EOS. Pentax, in reply to an inquiry
I made directly to them last year, says their SLRs are safe up to 600
volts, but I have learned that the PZ-1 and SF-10 lock up when used with
a Vivitar 2800 non-dedicated flash (300 volts), and won't work again
unless the battery is removed and the camera allowed to sit a few
minutes for the circuitry to reset.
SOME cameras with electronically controlled shutters and programmed
flash still used hardwired tungsten flash sync contacts safe to hundreds
of volts, example: Pentax LX.
-GP
From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003
From: Jim Brokaw jbrokaw@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Flash trigger voltage, Synch'ing for digicams
I think to measure flash unit trigger voltage you just need to set the flash
off using the probes of a voltage meter set to read DC voltage... If the
flash is a hotshoe unit, there is one contact in the middle of the bottom of
the flash foot, and there should be another contact visible in the little
slots along the sides of the flash foot (one side or both). Jump with a wire
between those two contacts and the flash should go off. All the camera does
is close the connection between the center of the hot shoe and the edge of
the hot shoe (probably the camera body in general serves as the 'ground' in
the circuit.
The voltage is present in the flash, and closing the connection between the
two contacts in the flash foot sets the flash off. If you do this with a
good multi-meter that can 'capture' the voltage reading, you will see how
much voltage is present in the flash trigger circuit when the flash goes
off...
Most newer flash units are probably ~10v or under. Older units can run much
higher, there is a website that lists measured voltages for a bunch of flash
models (a Google search will turn it up I'm sure). Some are as high as 200v
or more...!
Modern cameras using electronic trigger circuits are in danger if the
voltage goes too high, you might burn out the little solid-state 'switch'
that sets off the flash at the right millisecond. Older shutters used
mechanical metal contacts to close this circuit, and probably can handle
higher voltages and current levels... One web article I read says the
'standard' for voltage tolerance in modern electronic cameras is ~6v and
anything much over that risks burning out the electronic switch chip. This
usually will mean either no flash, or the whole circuit board will need to
be replaced... if the part is still available. I suspect most digital
cameras have a similar voltage tolerance standard used, so I would avoid
using older high-voltage flash units with any digital camera.
I think there is an adapter available that fits into the hot shoe and
isolates the camera electronics from the flash voltage. I recall this is
called a 'Safe-Sync' or something, and isn't too expensive compared with
replacing the circuit board in a new camera. If I were using a digital
camera with studio flashes or a flash unit that I wasn't certain had a low
trigger voltage (by measuring it myself) I would use one of those units.
--
Jim Brokaw
...
From: John Halliwell john@photopia.demon.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: 283 trigger voltage
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003
Patrick L. niceworkif@youcangetit.com writes
>Can anyone tell by looking at this photo of my Vivitar 283 whether it is the
>older unit, or the newer unit, and what it's trigger voltage might be?
>
>http://www.patricklockwood.com/283.jpg
>Yeah, okay, okay, I should buy a multimeter and check it, but in the
>meantime-- if any one knows, off hand, what its trigger voltage is, I would
>appreciate it. Thanks
I have two old 'Made in Japan' 283s, both of unknown age, but both look
identical (different serial number schemes though). The point really is
that one hits 270v+ when cycling, the other only 11v, so it may not be
all that consistent. I don't put the 270v gun on camera, but trigger it
with a slave, it has red insulation tape on the side so I can identify
it.
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.
Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk
From: Craig Schroeder craigclu69n@netscape.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: 283 trigger voltage
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003
Two of mine are from Japan and measure 263v and 237v.
John Halliwell john@photopia.demon.co.uk wrote:
>I have two old 'Made in Japan' 283s, both of unknown age, but both look
>identical (different serial number schemes though). The point really is
>that one hits 270v+ when cycling, the other only 11v, so it may not be
>all that consistent. I don't put the 270v gun on camera, but trigger it
>with a slave, it has red insulation tape on the side so I can identify
>it.
Nikon MF Mailing list:
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003
From: Rick Housh rick_housh@yahoo.com
Subject: Flash trigger voltage
Rick Housh wrote:
>John Clark wrote:
> > I read the old 283s had a high trigger voltage
> >which would damage the new cameras. Do the new Vivitar 283's or
> >285HVs have a low trigger voltage that can be safely used on the new
> >SLRs?
>
>The *new* 283's or 285's should be fine with any Nikon camera.
This comes up periodically on almost all Nikon forums, so I thought I'd
post this info I recently found and posted to the NikonD100 group here on
Yahoo. A large number of electronic flashes, both portable and studio
models, have had their trigger voltages measured and are reported at:
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
Although this site relates specifically to compatibility with Canon EOS
bodies, the underlying flash trigger voltage info presented there should
prove equally useful to Nikon users. Interesting stuff there - I didn't
know there was an ISO standard specifying that all ISO compliant cameras
must tolerate at least 24 volts flash trigger voltage: ISO 10330
specification. With Nikon still officially specifying 12 volts as the safe
maximum for its newest bodies, and Canon 6 volts (although unofficially
both companies seem to be giving advice that much higher voltages are safe
with the newest bodies) it looks like none of these bodies are ISO compliant.
But note Fuji's advice that up to 400 volts is safe with their bodies.
- Rick Housh -
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003
From: Ken kence@idworld.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Strobe capacitors (OT)
Norman Worth wrote:
>
> You may need to determine the actual voltage accross the
> capacitor to find the right replacement. 490 Mfd is an odd value, but
> electrolytics aren't that accurate anyway.
IIRC, the tolerance on some electrolytics is something like +80 -20% of the
marked value. However a couple of Novatron 400 WS units I worked on the
caps were right on target, as measured with my cap meter, despite being marked
+80 -20%. BTW, they were the computer grade type, made by Mallory. I strongly
suspect that the caps were hand picked for the correct value as they are
switched in/out to change the power setting. i.e. 100, 200 & 400 Watt Seconds.
The power levels and light output of the two units seemed to be well matched
as measured with my flash meter.
I'm assuming the the OP's 12 cap unit uses multiple strobe heads and it may
be nice if the outputs matched.
Check out: http://www.duracap.com/photoflash_service_capacitors/
They may have just what you need.
Cheers,
--
Ken, Pookie and Sammy
From: "George" Anchor Electronics in Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Strobe capacitors (OT)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003
Sometimes at Halted Electronics, Haltek Electronics, and Weird Stuff...all
in the San Jose, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara area.
"David Starr" davestarr2@comcast.net wrote ...
> OT I know, but....
> Anyone know of a decent source for photoflash capacitors?
> My 20 yr old power pack just blew one.
> Sprague D49503 490 Mfd 500Vdc
>
> Need 12 of them.
From: John Halliwell john@photopia.demon.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Vivitar 283 Flash Questions
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003
Geoffrey S. Mendelson gsm@mendelson.com writes
>Be careful with the flash cord. Some of the 283's had a high voltage
>(about 180v) trigger circuit. It will work fine on your Mat124g, but
>it may leave you with some "shocking experiences" if you are not carefull
>handeling the sync cord.
I've got two old 283s (nothing to distinguish between them apart from
different serial number formats). One cycles at 270v, the other at 11v.
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.
Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk
From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003
From: Gene Poon sheehans@ap.net
Subject: Re: Measureing Flash Trigger Voltage?
bikedealer2002 wrote:
> What is the proper way to check trigger voltage on a flash, Vivitar
> 283 for example? On the charged flash I touched my meter possitive
> probe to the 'hot' shoe center contact and the negative probe to the
> side ground and got a reading of 233 volts without tripping the
> flash. Is this correct? Thanks.
Yes. That is exactly the way to test it. Your Vivitar 283 appears to
be an early, Made In Japan sample. DO NOT use that one with electronic
cameras that use switching transistors to trigger a flash. The newest,
Made In China ones have a much lower trigger voltage that is safe for
most of them (but reportedly not Canon EOS which are unusually sensitive
to overvoltage on the flash trigger).
-Gene Poon
From: "Malcolm Stewart" malcolm_stewart@megalith.freeserve.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Measuring trigger voltage
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004
"Patrick L." nicework@ifyoucangetit.com wrote
> Okay, I got a multimeter, and I want to measure the trigger voltage on my
> 283.
> Anyone got a tutorial?
You're only trying to measure your 283's trigger voltage because you've seen
warnings about the damage that the older units with their high voltages can
present. So you need a multimeter with a high input impedance when measuring
volts. Modern DVM style meters are likely to meet this requirement, but the
older moving coil meters with as little as 1000ohms/volt sensitivity could give
you a totally false sense of security. If you are limited to a moving coil
multimeter check that the input impedance is 20,000ohms/volt at least for this
measurement. It should be marked on the scale plate.
For the record, I've measured in the region of 270V on my 283s - more than
enough to fry unprotected input circuits on a camera.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ms1938/
From: "JD" qernqrq@pbznfg.arg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Measuring trigger voltage
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004
Try http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html
...
Len> I have a Vivitar 285HV flash that I have used with my
Len> Nikon F and also with my medium format cameras with
Len> great success.
Len> I hesitate, however, to use the flash on some newer
Len> Nikon MF cameras, namely a Nikkormat EL and a Nikon FE
Len> because I have read that the Vivitar 285HV uses a
Len> trigger voltage that will fry the electronics of certain
Len> (not specified which) cameras.
Len> The 285HV may not be as good as a real TTL flash system
Len> but, mounted about ten inches above the lens, on a
Len> Stroboframe, it has proven to be a very good performer.
Gordon Pritchard, P.Eng. VA7GP
From: "G. Fortin" grfortin@greennet.net
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Vivitar 285HV safe or not
> hi just wondering to find out did anyone use the Vivitar 285HV on N90s and
> F100 or F5, is it good and is it safe because heard some people said that
> Vivitar is High Volt and it will kill the N90s or F100 or F5 is it right?
>
> all comments are welcome, thanks..
>
> jack
> ez@unforgettable.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999
From: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: [NIKON] warning Re: flash voltages
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999
From: PWossidlo@aol.com
Subject: Re: FG's SB's and Self P's
Vivitar 285 (16 years old?) ~15 volts
Vivitar 265 (20 years old?) 750 volts!
Pittsburgh PA
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999
From: Larry Kopitnik kopitnil@marketingcomm.com
Subject: Vivitar Flashes & Voltage
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999
From: Rick Housh rick@housh.nu
Subject: Flash voltages
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000
From: "Ed Andersen" eca1@blazenet.net
Subject: Re: Flash Trigger Voltages
From: Richard Cochran rcochran@netcom8.netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Max Flash Voltage for F3?
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000
From: steven arterberry arterberry@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Need help with old electronic flash units
From: jerryleh@pacbell.net
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Need help with old electronic flash units
> Aaron
>
> No problem. Any Radio Shack store has or can get these batteries
> at a very reasonable price. I use Honeywell Auto Strobonar 882
> with one of those batteries and it is superb! Charges so fast, I can
> use the motor drive continuosly. I relly could have used it when I
> did wedding and baby photography.
> If you don't require fast (instant) recycling, don't bother with HV
> batteries.
>
> Jerry
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000
From: Ron Manfredi wa2eio@mindspring.com
Subject: [NIKON] Flash synch voltages
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000
From: "Lawrence Reiss" lreiss@stsi.net
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Vivitar Flashes [OT] / trigger voltages
From: jackjennings@my-deja.com
[1] high sync voltage cure
Date: Tue Dec 12 2000
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000
From: Larry Otto LarryOtto@Worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Vivitar 285 one last time
From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000
From: Don Doucette carguy@cgocable.net
Subject: Re: Vivitar 285 one last time
From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000
From: Rick Housh rick@housh.net
Subject: RE: Vivitar 285 one last time
>You need to use a very high impedance peak reading meter or an
>oscilloscope to get a true picture of the trigger voltage.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000
From: ers ers@telebyte.com
Subject: capacitor grenades
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001
From: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
To: photo-3d@egroups.com
Subject: re: turning your flash into a flash grenade
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001
From: Dan losaltos@infonie.be
Subject: Re: flash trigger voltage
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001
From: "Mark PEARCE" top@tdstelme.net
Subject: Re: [RF List] flash trigger voltage
Date: Thu, 4-Jan-2001
From: Winfried Buechsenschuetz w-buechsenschuetz@gmx.de
Subject: RE: flash trigger voltage
> What do you guys mean by 'flash trigger voltage'?
Date: Thu, 4-Jan-2001
From: Winfried Buechsenschuetz w-buechsenschuetz@gmx.de
Subject: RE: flash trigger voltage
Date: Thu, 4-Jan-2001
From: Richard Sintchak richmo@mail.com
Subject: RE: Flash w/ G2
> Does anyone know when Vivitar changed the trigger voltage on the 283? I
> have
> one I bought about 1985 and I'm wondering if that's old enough to cause
> problems. I have a volt-ohm meter. Can I use that to measure to trigger
> voltage?
>
> Craig Shearman
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001
From: Dan losaltos@infonie.be
Subject: Re: flash trigger voltage
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001
From: info@paramountcords.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: High Sync Voltage
Paramount Cords
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001
From: Afterswift@aol.com
Subject: Re: Flash triggering voltage, was Re: 90mm Elmarit focusing ring
> > The implication is that the newer 283s and 285s are triggering
> > with the lower voltage. Anybody know what serial numbers are
> > newer production with the lower voltages. I ask this only because
> > those Vivitar models are workhorses and are still being sold in
> > great numbers.
From: ajacobs2 ajacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: upping strobe power
> there seem to be lots of cheapy 283 clones at places like Sams Warehouse
> for $20 or so up; it would be easier to use two of these, one with a slave
> module, and get the benefit of multiple strobe options/lighting at low
> cost; builtin backups, and more potential coverage for wide angles etc.?
>
> grins bobm
> --
www.aljacobs.com
From: nimages@capecod.net (David Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Vivitar 285HV good or bad?
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001
"Jack A. Zucker" jaz@gwis.com> wrote:
>Anyone know the difference between the non HV and the HV ?
As I understand it and I'm no expert, but the standard 285 uses full
voltage across the trigger contacts of the camera and the HV uses low
voltage. You don't want the standard 285 with a fully loaded wizz bang
camera with lots of electronics.
The 285 HV has a deliberate switching sound going on inside when it
fires, as if a solonoid is triggering in there.
David Grabowksi
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
From: "James Jones" junebug1701@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
Subject: [camera-fix] Can an electronic flash damage camera circuitry?
I have heard that it's not a good idea to trigger multiple flash
units with an electronic camera like the Minolta X-700. Some say that
the flash will eventually burn out a chip. This got me curious, so I
decided to test a few of the flash units I have lying around with my
dvm. It turns out that the older, cheaper flashes I own (Vivitar and
Sakar) have up to 210 volts DC on the PC connector or hot shoe
connector. The newer Minolta units (which were made for the X-series
cameras) measure only 2 volts on these connectors.
I have also heard that the X-700 triggers the flash electronically at
the hot shoe, but uses mechanical switch contacts on the PC
connector. Can anyone with a service manual or schematic confirm
this? If so, it would be safer to trigger multiple flash units off
the PC connector.
Here are my voltage readings taken from the hot shoe connector with
the flash charging and ready light on:
Vivitar 1800 145 VDC
Vivitar 252 210 VDC
Sakar Auto 27B 208 VDC
Minolta Auto 220X 2.04 VDC
Minolta Auto 280PX 1.8 VDC
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com>
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Can an electronic flash damage camera circuitry?
> From: "James Jones" junebug1701@yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
> To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [camera-fix] Can an electronic flash damage camera circuitry?
>
> I have heard that it's not a good idea to trigger multiple flash
> units with an electronic camera like the Minolta X-700. Some say that
> the flash will eventually burn out a chip. This got me curious, so I
> decided to test a few of the flash units I have lying around with my
> dvm. It turns out that the older, cheaper flashes I own (Vivitar and
> Sakar) have up to 210 volts DC on the PC connector or hot shoe
> connector. The newer Minolta units (which were made for the X-series
> cameras) measure only 2 volts on these connectors.
>
If you use a Minolta dedicated flash and slave triggers on other flash
units you can do no harm to the camera.
> I have also heard that the X-700 triggers the flash electronically at
> the hot shoe, but uses mechanical switch contacts on the PC
> connector. Can anyone with a service manual or schematic confirm
> this? If so, it would be safer to trigger multiple flash units off
> the PC connector.
>
I find this unlikely since almost all modern cameras use electronic switches
to trigger the flash, regardless of whether connected by hot shoe or
PC socket.
> Here are my voltage readings taken from the hot shoe connector with
> the flash charging and ready light on:
>
> Vivitar 1800 145 VDC
> Vivitar 252 210 VDC
> Sakar Auto 27B 208 VDC
> Minolta Auto 220X 2.04 VDC
> Minolta Auto 280PX 1.8 VDC
>
Most modern flash units use a trigger voltage of under 6 V . Older flash
units with high voltage trigger circuits should not be used on modern
cameras, as they can burn out the switching diode. You have old Vivitars,
since they redesigned their flash units some time ago with lower trigger
voltage. Even my old 283 from twelve years ago has the newer low voltage.
You can buy a gadget made by Wein called Safe Sync which protects camera
circuits while still letting you use old flash with high trigger voltage.
Bob
From: John Halliwell john@photopia.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: flash trigger voltage again
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001
ShadCat11 shadcat11@aol.com> writes
>250 volts? My Vivitar 283 delivers 9 volts of trigger voltage and has not
>damaged any Nikon body used with it. What have you been feeding that thing?
I've two old 283s, one hits 273v, the other about 11v. There's not
really anything remarkable to differentiate the two, so I stuck red tape
on the 273v one and black on the 11v one. I only use the 273v gun on a
slave trigger.
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.
Photos at http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk
From nikon MF mailing list:
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001
From: Randy Holst mrvolvo@cableone.net
Subject: Re: Shocking problem with Nikon F FTN (chrome)
yanquiidoodle wrote:
> I recently acquired this camera and dutifully got lots of necessary
> accessories, including an AS-1 (AS-4? I'm not sure) flash adapter.
Hi Dan,
The AS-1 is the correct flash adapter for the Nikon F. (The AS-4 is for
the F3.)
> The problem comes up when I put a Minolta Auto 128 flash in the hot
> shoe and turn it on. As I hold the camera and work on the picture,
> my hand naturally falls over the flash sych jack and I get a shock!
> Is this normal?
It's not unusual. There aren't any fancy electronics involved in the
flash triggering circuit, just some wires and contact points. Since the
Nikon proprietary hot shoe and the PC socket are wired together, any AC
voltage the flash unit puts through the hot shoe is also present at the
PC socket. If you have a late production F, the PC socket hole is
threaded and you can screw one of those little black plastic caps (that
came with most Nikons after the F) into the PC socket and you won't get
shocked. (Or you can just put a piece of tape over it.) I've had a
number of cameras and flash units that did the same thing. Some flash
units operate on a high trigger voltage (200+ volts), and you can get a
pretty good jolt when the flash fires.
> I'm prepared for hassles so if they tell me there's nothing wrong
> with the electronics, I'd like to be prepared.
There's nothing wrong with the camera, unless it won't fire the flash.
Randy Holst
Boise, Idaho