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Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998
From: Mark Walberg Walberg@simmons.swmed.edu
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
>The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
>across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
>there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. I'm
>trying to figure out what caused it. Its got to be either the camera, the
>cassette or the processing. I checked out the camera thoroughly and there
>is nothing on it anywhere that I can see. It has to be the cassette ir the
>processing. has anyone had similar experiences?
>
>Terry

Yes,  You have to ask them to take the wire brush off the end of the
processing line.    I've had lots of film come back from a variety of Kodak
processing with plenty of scratches.
   If it is really from the camera, then the scratch es should be at the
same point on the whole roll of film, sort of like you describe.  If you
can't find anything on the camera, it might be the light trap on the
cassette.  If you want to know if it is the camera, run some tri-X through
and develop it yourself.
Mark Walberg



Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Steven T Koontz skoontz@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

At 09:09 PM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
>The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
>across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
>there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. I'm
>trying to figure out what caused it. Its got to be either the camera, the
>cassette or the processing. I checked out the camera thoroughly and there
>is nothing on it anywhere that I can see. It has to be the cassette ir the
>processing. has anyone had similar experiences?
>
>Terry
>
are you saying the scratch is in the directing of the film moving through
the camera? I had a problem with a minolta auto cord like this and turns
out some one replaced one of the screws that holds the pressure plate down
with a longer one and when the plate was compressed in the "working"
position, the screw head rubbed the film.. might look at that.. Also try
holding the film on the film guides and see what lines up with the
scratch.. might show you what did it.. that's how I found that screw...
>


steve's photography & Z car stuff @ http://www.mindspring.com/~skoontz
skoontz@mindspring.com



Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:51:53 -0700
From: Randy Holst 
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

Terry Price (Edgecombe-Coles House) wrote:
> 
> I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
> The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
> across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
> there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. 

Terry,

After repeated similar experiences with my local custom lab I did a
little investigating.  My camera was clean, burr-free and I am always
careful to load film out of the wind to avoid dust and sand getting
where it shouldn't.  The lab swore they didn't scratch the film, as they
use the "dip and dunk" E-6 system, which doesn't run the film over any
rollers.
  
As a check, I had them process two E-6 rolls, had one roll mounted and
the other unmounted.  The slide mounted roll had scratches and the
unmounted roll didn't.  The problem turned out to be their manual slide
mounting system, which they corrected shortly thereafter.

Randy Holst
Boise, Idaho



Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:19:24 -0400
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>>I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
>>The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
>>across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
>>there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. I'm
>>trying to figure out what caused it. Its got to be either the camera, the
>>cassette or the processing. I checked out the camera thoroughly and there
>>is nothing on it anywhere that I can see. It has to be the cassette ir the
>>processing. has anyone had similar experiences?
>>
>>Terry
>
>Yes,  You have to ask them to take the wire brush off the end of the
>processing line.    I've had lots of film come back from a variety of Kodak
>processing with plenty of scratches.
>   If it is really from the camera, then the scratch es should be at the
>same point on the whole roll of film, sort of like you describe.  If you
>can't find anything on the camera, it might be the light trap on the
>cassette.  If you want to know if it is the camera, run some tri-X through
>and develop it yourself.
>Mark Walberg

Mark,

You don't even need to process the film.  Just run a junk roll through,
rewind, and pull out of the cassette and look at it under a magnifier with
strong side lighting.  I think scratches are easier to see on unprocessed
film.

Bob



Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
>The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
>across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
>there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. I'm
>trying to figure out what caused it. Its got to be either the camera, the
>cassette or the processing. I checked out the camera thoroughly and there
>is nothing on it anywhere that I can see. It has to be the cassette ir the
>processing. has anyone had similar experiences?
>
>Terry

Who did the processing?

I've stopped using Kodachrome completely due to lack of really professional
processing that I can easily access.  Qualex, Kodak's processing division,
ought to be called Crapex from my experience.  Most recently they processed
two test rolls of slide film in C-41 and made prints!!!!!!

Bob



Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:19:24 -0400
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>>
>> I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
>> The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
>> across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
>> there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one.
>
>Terry,
>
>After repeated similar experiences with my local custom lab I did a
>little investigating.  My camera was clean, burr-free and I am always
>careful to load film out of the wind to avoid dust and sand getting
>where it shouldn't.  The lab swore they didn't scratch the film, as they
>use the "dip and dunk" E-6 system, which doesn't run the film over any
>rollers.
>
>As a check, I had them process two E-6 rolls, had one roll mounted and
>the other unmounted.  The slide mounted roll had scratches and the
>unmounted roll didn't.  The problem turned out to be their manual slide
>mounting system, which they corrected shortly thereafter.
>
>Randy Holst
>Boise, Idaho

Randy,

Most labs use Pakon mounts and mounting machinery.  The Pakon system uses
brute force to shove the cut slide into the mount, and looks like it was
designed to scratch film.  These machines need constant adjustment to
prevent this problem.  Why this infernally bad design became the mounter of
choice has a lot to do with marketing, and little to do with practicality.

I NEVER have my slide film mounted by the lab.  If I plan to project any of
the images, I mount them myself by hand in Polaroid snap mounts.  The
balance are stored in plastic pages in filing cabinets.  Since most of my
shooting is for magazine reproduction, it is much better to supply them
unmounted.  If you supply mounted slides, the person doing the scanning
must take them out of the mounts, scan them, and then remount them.  That's
just asking for trouble.

Now if you shoot primarily for projection, I recommend just putting aside
the time for hand mounting if you really care about scratches.

Bob



Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 08:08:19 -0500
From: James Harrison leica@wf.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

Randy Holst wrote: 
> As a check, I had them process two E-6 rolls, had one roll mounted and
> the other unmounted.  The slide mounted roll had scratches and the
> unmounted roll didn't.  The problem turned out to be their manual slide
> mounting system, which they corrected shortly thereafter.
> 

A local lab scratched 12 frames down thru the emulsion for a wedding I
shot; they swore it was my camera; later one of the lab girls admitted
their machine had problems;;jh

 
Lighthouse Photography and Photolab
Minox thru 6x7
940-851-8761
USA



Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lucian Chis chis@ECE.ORST.EDU
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

I don't have any slide film mounted in 6X6 (Cardboard slide mounts are
from the devil! as Ulrich Barthel says) but I shoot a lot of Kodachrome 64
and you can only have them mounted. I haven't had any problems with
Kodachrome processing but I had last week-end a problem with Qualex:
Somehow they decided to change the mount from the "Kodak Premium
Processing" to "Premium Processing".  At least the Costco Store says that 
Qualex is their exclusive processor.  I have noticed that the slides are
not flat but I gave them a run through my Pradovit CA2500. I tried to,
that is!! 

The projector choked on them and I almost wrecked one of the slides in
recovering it. Those of you having this type of projector must know it
doesn't allow for junk mounts. (It has the shortest slide changeover time
of any projector I know, being a poor man's dissolve, by getting the new
slide in the stage behind or ahead of the old slide and then pushing
the old one out).  Some levers inside the projector were bent (ouch!!).
Anyway, I called Qualex about it and they said they will remount them, but
I am wondering if it is worth the trouble: They might heat the slides in
order to get them out and then they might scratch them. 

In the mean time I am using the Rollei P-11 (no, not with the "Portrait
Quality" Heidosmat 150/2.8, or even the sharper 110-160/3.5: I have a real
35mm projection lens adapted, the Colorplan 90/2.5).

On the other hand I have just had some Velvia processed through a Fuji
mailer and most of the slides are mounted off center so that the sprocket
holes are visible in the projected image.  
Where are we going from here?  I don't have the time and nerves to mount
these tiny things!

Frustrated,

Lucian

On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Bob Shell wrote:

> >I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
> >The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
> >across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
> >there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. I'm
> >trying to figure out what caused it. Its got to be either the camera, the
> >cassette or the processing. I checked out the camera thoroughly and there
> >is nothing on it anywhere that I can see. It has to be the cassette ir the
> >processing. has anyone had similar experiences?
> >
> >Terry
> 
> Who did the processing?
> 
> I've stopped using Kodachrome completely due to lack of really professional
> processing that I can easily access.  Qualex, Kodak's processing division,
> ought to be called Crapex from my experience.  Most recently they processed
> two test rolls of slide film in C-41 and made prints!!!!!!
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 



From: "Dan Post" dwpost@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:32:11 -0400

Since I work in a photofinishing lab, I see this problem once or twice a
month. I have had people claim our equipment did it, but in the Fuji
equipment we use, the emulsion side is toward the rollers!, nothing touches
the back! It has been my experience that if there is not grit or particles
in the camera, it is something caught in the felt of the cassette light
trap. I always suggest to people to keep the film cassette in the little can
until they use it, and put it back when they finish. It goes a long way
protecting the felt strip from a stray grain of sand or grit.
I am surprised at the number of rolls we do that are pulled from the bottom
of purses and pockets totally unprotected, and yet show no damage! Even so,
I go on the side of caution, and advocate keeping the film closed up except
when in the camera.

Dan'l
dwpost@msn.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Price (Edgecombe-Coles House) terry@free.midcoast.com
Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 9:45 PM
Subject: [Rollei] slide scratches


>I just got back a roll of Kodachrome 64 slides I took with my Rollei 35 SE.
>The color and sharpness are wonderful, but there is a fine horizontal line
>across the middle of each slide. I examined the slides with a loupe and
>there is a definite scratch on the non-emulsion side of each one. I'm
>trying to figure out what caused it. Its got to be either the camera, the
>cassette or the processing. I checked out the camera thoroughly and there
>is nothing on it anywhere that I can see. It has to be the cassette ir the
>processing. has anyone had similar experiences?
>
>Terry
>
>




To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bill Lawlor wvl@marinternet.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:57:11 -0700

In the early 1960's I worked summers at Drewry Photocolor, a major L.A.
color lab. They had the first licensed Kodachrome machine after Kodak lost
a suit over the monopoly of K processing. I worked inside the machine where
film in 4000 ft. spliced rolls passes over and under 1400 nylon rollers. I
don't know if it is still processed this way but it was a source of
scratches back in the good old days.
Bill Lawlor



From: rurmonas@senet.com.au (Richard Urmonas)
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:02:26 +0930 (CST)

> I don't have any slide film mounted in 6X6 (Cardboard slide mounts are
> from the devil! as Ulrich Barthel says) but I shoot a lot of Kodachrome 64
> and you can only have them mounted.

Try cutting the corner of the mailer envelope (the one which is marked
with a diagonal).  This works in Australia.  Similarly a "C" in the rectangular
box for cardboard mounts instead of the cheapo plastic ones.

Richard Urmonas
rurmonas@senet.com.au



Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:52:45 -0400
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>I don't have any slide film mounted in 6X6 (Cardboard slide mounts are
>from the devil! as Ulrich Barthel says) but I shoot a lot of Kodachrome 64
>and you can only have them mounted. I haven't had any problems with
>Kodachrome processing but I had last week-end a problem with Qualex:
>Somehow they decided to change the mount from the "Kodak Premium
>Processing" to "Premium Processing".  At least the Costco Store says that
>Qualex is their exclusive processor.  I have noticed that the slides are
>not flat but I gave them a run through my Pradovit CA2500. I tried to,
>that is!!
>The projector choked on them and I almost wrecked one of the slides in
>recovering it. Those of you having this type of projector must know it
>doesn't allow for junk mounts. (It has the shortest slide changeover time
>of any projector I know, being a poor man's dissolve, by getting the new
>slide in the stage behind or ahead of the old slide and then pushing
>the old one out).  Some levers inside the projector were bent (ouch!!).
>Anyway, I called Qualex about it and they said they will remount them, but
>I am wondering if it is worth the trouble: They might heat the slides in
>order to get them out and then they might scratch them.
>In the mean time I am using the Rollei P-11 (no, not with the "Portrait
>Quality" Heidosmat 150/2.8, or even the sharper 110-160/3.5: I have a real
>35mm projection lens adapted, the Colorplan 90/2.5).
>On the other hand I have just had some Velvia processed through a Fuji
>mailer and most of the slides are mounted off center so that the sprocket
>holes are visible in the projected image.
>Where are we going from here?  I don't have the time and nerves to mount
>these tiny things!
>
>Frustrated,
>
>Lucian

You can get Kodachrome processed by Qualex and returned unmounted.  They
sleeve the film and wrap around a cardboard tube.  Just write "UNMOUNTED"
in the place for special instructions on the processing bag.  When I was
still using Kodachrome, this was what I did.  I have friends who still do
it.  Besides, if you use flat field projection lenses from top German
makers, as I do, then slides to be projected demand mounting in plastic
mounts with glass.  Otherwise they will "pop" during projection and only
part will be in focus.  For utilitarian purposes, you can use Polaroid
mounts.

If the slide mounts don't say Kodak, then it was not processed by Kodak.

If done properly, heating those mounts won't hurt the slides.

As far as time and nerves, it doesn't take much in the way of nerves to
mount slides in GEPE or Polaroid mounts, and if the pictures were worth
taking, then they should be worth the bit of extra time to mount them.

Bob



Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:52:45 -0400
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>'why don't you guys send your film to a professional labs like A&I; in
>Hollywood?  You can even buy mailers from them.  If you send them a batch
>of 10 rolls, they will even fedex you the results.  They will do snips,
>push or pull, mount or not mount, etc. There are other equally good pro
>labs elsewhere as well.   It just doesn't make sense to me that you use a
>fine camera like a Rollei, good film like Velvia and then take it to the
>Five & Dime or Costco for processing.
>
>
>David

David,

Good point, generally speaking, but not an option for Kodachrome.  Just
about every pro lab still sends their Kodachrome out to Qualex for
processing.  The new K-Lab introduced by Kodak last year was supposed to
change this, but so far labs have not bought the K-Lab processor because
their Kodachrome volume is just not enough to pay for this expensive
machine and the manpower to run it.

Kodak argues that if they buy the machines, the business will come.  Sort
of "if you build it they will come" philosophy.  Labs aren't taking that to
the bank and getting loans to buy K-Labs.

Now when it comes to E-6, I always work with a pro lab.  In my case I'm
lucky to have an exceptionally good one two blocks from my house.  PFS here
in Radford, Virginia, has processed all my film for more than fifteen
years.  They do closely monitored E-6 in a big Mullersohn dip-n-dunk
machine, which is absolutely the best way to run E-6.

Bob



Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:52:45 -0400
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] slide scratches

>Since I work in a photofinishing lab, I see this problem once or twice a
>month. I have had people claim our equipment did it, but in the Fuji
>equipment we use, the emulsion side is toward the rollers!, nothing touches
>the back! It has been my experience that if there is not grit or particles
>in the camera, it is something caught in the felt of the cassette light
>trap. I always suggest to people to keep the film cassette in the little can
>until they use it, and put it back when they finish. It goes a long way
>protecting the felt strip from a stray grain of sand or grit.
>I am surprised at the number of rolls we do that are pulled from the bottom
>of purses and pockets totally unprotected, and yet show no damage! Even so,
>I go on the side of caution, and advocate keeping the film closed up except
>when in the camera.
>Dan'l
>dwpost@msn.com

I agree that processing scratches are rare, but camera scratches are even
rarer.  As you say, the felt in the cassette is the most likely cause.

Also, it is better to use a processing lab that pops open the cassette and
pulls the film out rolled up.  Pulling the film through the felt again as
it feeds into the machine is a totally unnecessary extra trip through the
felt at a time when it is most likely to have gotten grit in it.

Bob