.

Was Senator Rick Santorum out protesting with you in Washington? He is very big on supporting workers in Iran, you know. Like the way that Jesse Helms supported Solidarity in Poland. In fact, you idiots support Iranian workers in the same exact way, with a huge dollop of pro-imperialist cynicism. You'll never find anything here about trade union organizers getting tortured and killed in Colombia, for example. Why? Because Colombia is a staunch ally in the war on terror. Yuccchhhhh!!!

You've really got us down to a tee there Joe.

Hmmm Joe you might have a point

"The Colombian labor movement has been the target of a campaign of intimidation unparalleled in the contemporary world. More than 3,800 union leaders and activists have been assassinated since the mid 1980's; more than one hundred have been killed in the first six months of 2002 alone. In the past several years, links between the right wing paramilitary groups that carry out the majority of these killings and both US based corporations operating in Colombia and US military assistance to the country have become increasingly evident. In response, American labor unions and human rights groups have launched solidarity campaigns aimed at holding corporations accountable for their practices in Colombia and calling for a moratorium on arms shipments until the country's human rights record improves."

http://henningcenter.berkeley.edu/gateway/colombia.html

Don't see too many posts about this though do we.
Looks kinda cynical to the outside eye that the good people at HP never post about this sort of thing especially since its on such a larger scale.

Not very "decent"...
Or very "left" even...

Looks in fact like HP doesn't give a shit for labour rights its really about another agenda

In his wisdom Joe Smith turns a couple of centuries of socialist experience on its head and tells us that supporting workers' struggles is pro-imperialist.

Once upon a time such people would have been laughed out of the progressive movement. Now, however, some sections of the left have become so degenerate that they will support any reactionary riff-raff as long as it shouts "Down with America !".

Unvarnished, suppose we apply the same standard to you, noticing what you comment on and what you don't. We'd have to conclude that you're and Islamist wouldn't we. There's decent for you.

People who frequent this website are actively involved in this issue. One example, I've been sending letters to my legislative reps., the president of my country, unions here and abroad. WTF have you done?

If you really are interested in this issue I suggest visiting:

http://www.labourstart.org
http://www.icftu.org

I suspect quite a few of the regulars here are familiar with both sites. Have a look, you could actually do something to change conditions in Colombia instead of coming here to complain.

Joshua Scholar

Uhhhhh no.

How would that be. I have conistently criticised theocratic states in all forms and repeatedly described both the Iran and Saudi Arabian states as brutal and odious. I have criticised the incitement to religious hatred bill. I have criticied the Syrian regime as a depotism and a tyranny.

Has that ticked all the necessary boxes?

I just question the motives of people who make a big fuss about labour rights in one part of the world and ignore much graver violations when it suits them.

It looks hypocritical frankly

Actually, Joe Smith and Mr or Ms Unvarnished Truth raise perfectly valid points about Colombia. Human rights violations there are much greater than in, say, Venezuela but a quick shufty using the HP search facility turns up loads more posts on Venezuela than on Colombia. The US (and UK, for that matter) have much greater influence with the Colombian government than they do with Iran so why is so little done to help trade unionists in Colombia? Ahmandinejad has imprisoned the Tehran bus-drivers; they aren't turning up dead alongside highways and in ditches as they probably would be in Colombia.

unvarnishedtruth,

Here's an idea:

Get yourself a blog and post on the important stuff if we "hypocrites" won't.

Radical, eh?

FFS.

SueC,

Yeah, we haven't said an awful lot about Burma or Tibet either.

So shoot us.

Or bugger off.

Sorry, but all this fucking whining about what we *should* be writing about from people who can't be arsed to operate their own blogs, gets kinda tiresome after a while.

Well said!

I think we touched a nerve SueC

Go ahead, ask her out on a date, TVT.

Brownie is so fed up about the defeat of the Daily Telegraph that his normally Beau Brummell-like manners have gone to pot.

David T, that mighty GG-hunter of yore, is too choked to utter.

Gene: Perhaps your best buddies in the Coalition of the Unwitting could influence the situation in the Disunited States of Sharia? The newly formed General Federation of Iraqi Workers is not quite so thrilled about IMF neoliberalism being imposed on the country's economy as your pals in the neocon think tanks:

http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/8457/1/306

What does TVT mean?

By now I'm no longer surprised by those who react to the Iranian workers' struggle and the effort to generate international support, not with excitement and solidarity but rather with dark muttering.

And yes, in case anyone believes otherwise, I support the Colombian trade unionists who are facing brutal repression.

Good on yer Gene.

But all this is really about the bomb isn't it?

I wonder if people here have seen this new report by Paul Rogers on the likley consequences of the planned attack. Its very interesting but rather grim in its conclusions.

http://www.iranbodycount.org/

The Telegraph recently published stuff on the preparations for an attack as well:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/12/wiran12.xml&sSheet;=/news/2006/02/12/ixnewstop.html

I really hope the people here who clearly don't think the plight of Iranian trade unionists is important enough to highlight here are involved in campaigns such as Justice for Columbia and Justice for Burma and aren't just full of hot air as I suspect.

Brownie is so fed up about the defeat of the Daily Telegraph that his normally Beau Brummell-like manners have gone to pot.

I was dragged up by my ears I'll have you know.

You may not have caught it, Jack, but the DT-GG libel case was settled some weeks ago. The only *new* news is that DT won't be appealing to the House of Lords.

Why not write about it yourself, on your blog?

Oh, wait....

TUT,

Just once, it would be nice to read a thread where all comments pertained to the topic of the original post, rather than have a tread liberally spiced with the random posting preferences of occasional commenters. You wouldn’t walk into a room where a group of people were watching BBC1 and start talking across the broadcast, banging on about the program on ITV. At least, you wouldn’t if you had any manners.

How can I say it?...feel free to shut the fuck up from time to time.

==> On Wednesday I joined about a hundred union activists,

Being slightly... oh, okay... quite mischievous, but if this had been one hundred SWP activists protesting at the treatment of one-legged lesbian Portuguese donkeys, you'd be quick to scream "Judean People's Front".

But Gene ... don't you know that according to those fuckwits above, solidarity is a finite quantitative material, there is only so much to go around and spreading it onto their allied state's enemies is a bad thing.

Brownie: You're behind the times, comrade. I've already suggested four other things for us to chat about. I think we should all-- what is it you Mongers are so fond of saying?-- 'move on'.

So how about a fifth subject: the Chief Rabbi having a pop at the C of E. Right up you blokes' alley, that one;-)

PS: Peter Hain now says Guantanamo Bay should be shut, so you won't be off-message if you air the topic.

PPS: Do wash your mouth out, old boy. You're letting yourself down.

Why would Pinochetista Gene support Colombian trade unionists? After all, he backed the fascist coup in Venezuela which abolished democracy including all labour rights.

Gene is sooooo transparent it's almost funny.

Support the Iranian bus drivers by dropping a bomb on them

Stop Press: A Decent joins a demo.

"Did anyone make it to the demonstration at the Iranian embassy in London?"

Looks like the answer is no, washing their hair no doubt

Cheers Gene

I crack open a cold one later to celebrate.

Zin lies, people laugh.

Zin, your smear techniques are pretty threadbare. I doubt even Jeremy or resistor are buying them. Time to head back to Havana for a refresher course.

but a quick shufty using the HP search facility turns up loads more posts on Venezuela than on Colombia.

That's a bit unfair - as Zin turns every post into one about Venezuela.

At the London demo? anyone? dont really care about Iranians just a stick to beat the left?

Hang on here - am I really seeing the usual proponents of anti-imperialism at HP comment boxes lambasting Gene for, er... showing international solidarity with workers?

(Sometimes I feel that I stepped into that one parellel universe where Kirk is a fascist and Spock has a beard)

Well not me. It's good that a Decent turned up. I just wonder how many other Decents turned up though.

anon,

Yeah, I resigned on Tuesday so I could make the demo on Wednesday.

Twat.

Gene, were they really taken with a cheap disposable digital camera or are you just winding us up? Great photos.

Spit.

To a Yanqui a $3000 Nikon is disposable. This ees because they dreenk zee blood of Venezuelan babies in zere Mcdonalds coffees.

Hang them high Mescalaroes! Ze ghost of Carlos Castenada demands eet of you! And I, ze mighty Zin, read all about eet in ze socialeest worker zat I bought at zee revolutionary hotspot of Bank underground station.

Viva Zapatiti!

Gene, were they really taken with a cheap disposable digital camera or are you just winding us up?

12 bucks for the camera and another 10 bucks for processing.

I have to say out of all the Decents writing at Harry's Place, Gene seems the most predisposed to actually go to demos as an actual participant.

I seem to remember Decent Comrade Marcus turning up at a demo once. But it was an Indecent demo, and he was there just to take photos.

I am a troll; remember not to feed me.

They call me Troll;
Gnawer of the Moon,
Giant of the Gale-blasts,
Curse of the rain-hall,
Companion of the Sibyl,
Nightroaming hag,
Swallower of the loaf of heaven.
What is a Troll but that?

Skáldskaparmál, Bragi Boddason

Isn't that Nadia from Big Brother in the 3rd from bottom photo?

Compared to Jack the bear - who will die one day and be missed by nobody, Callum, Zin, "a thought" and the various hateful sneakemail losers, Benjamin is a wise, humane and deeply thoughtful man.

I went to the one in London, Gene—turned up a bit late, admittedly, at about 12.30, when the bloke with the megaphone told me that the union people had gone into the embassy to present their protest petition (I think that's what he said). Otherwise it was mostly youngish worker-communist people and oldish communist party Iranians; about three people from Socialist Worker—two kids and their "handler". Only about a hundred people altogether by that time, I'd say.

I'm damned by faint praise!

Gene - How is it a smear to point out that you back those who organised a facsist coup against democracy in Venezuela?

You posted repeatedly that you support those who personally signged the decree that abolished all democratic institutions, including Parliament and the Supreme Court, and who kidnapped and imprisoned the elected head of state. There's no guilt by association here.

You refer to those who abolished democracy as "democracy activists". You posted photgraphs of the coup leaders here on Harry's Place together with the comment that you were "pleased that this would infuriate Chavez".

The problem with Gene's support for the Iranian bus workers (which is a good cause), is that he is using them to serve a much bigger cause, that of promoting US foreign policy.

Were he really interested in workers rights, he would also be blogging and demonstrating against the murder and kidnapping of trade unionists in Uncle Sam's backyard, and specifically in Colombia. He can't and won't do that in any meaningfull way, because that would mean challenging US policy which encourages (or at best turns a blind eye) to the killing of trade unionists. For the same reason, he bangs on about democracy in Iran but supported the overthrow of democracy in Venezuela.

Yeah, that's what Joe Smith said in the first comment on this thread.

Gene's support for the Iranian bus workers (which is a good cause)

Any chance of Castro or Chavez issuing a statement of solidarity? With the bus workers, that is-- not with the mullahs.

Pinochetista Gene - I note that you have made no attempt to refute anything I said about your support for the fascist coupsters in Venezuela. The facts are the facts, and you remain damned by your own words - which are all stored in the archives.

So I ask you once again: In what sense am I possibly smearing you by faithfully reproducing your views as expressed here on numerous occassions?

Zin:
haven't you got something better to do than to squeak timidly at your betters from afar? Shouldn't you, for instance, be checking the pay packets of the super-rich, fingering each note timorously, licking your lips in feverish envy: imagining, perhaps, who you could squash if only you rode the world on a giant white horse, like that present-day colossus, Colonel-General Chavez?

Zin, if Pinochetista Gene responds to you, you'll respond to him, again calling him "Pinochetista Gene" like the scratched record you are, then he'll have to respond to you and you'll respond to him, and the whole hideous cycle will go on and on and on and on and on. Now you might want that, but I suspect you're the only one that does.

Wardy - As Gene supported the fascist coup, he ought to consider his Pinochetista tag a badge of honour. Instead he now lies about what he said, and accuses me of smearing him! But he can't explain how I am smearing him, or point to anything I've said which is not 100% accurate and a fair summary of his views.

Let's get real here. HP claims to be a voice of the "decent left". It claims to be against fascism and for democracy. Yet here we have one of its leading bloggers backing the overthrow of an elected left government, and its replacement by a US backed fascist regime.

That it doesn't bother the "decent left" to be represented by someone who supports fascism, speaks volumes about your real agenda.

Oh fuck off.

Zin wins again. Does 'wardytron' do anything here except heckle and go 'heard it all before, na-na-na-na-na'? Judging by the response to his own blog-- 18 comments about five posts this month-- most of his readers have heard it all before too, and don't want to hear more.

Gene can't contradict the facts, and the Wartboy just screams abuse.

Every time Pinochetista Gene twitters on about democracy, I shall be right there reminding the readers that he openly and unequivocally backs the fascists who overthrew democracy in Venezuela.

You see: Zin has managed to disrupt another thread away from the tiresome issue of the mass arrests and beatings of some badly paid transport workers in a repressive country--all but ignored in the mainstream press---onto the much more interesting issue of himself and his latest choice of a powerful military figure who might just be that saviour of the masses he's been yearning for.

dd - But why is this blog worried about labour rights and democracy in Iran, when it backed a fascist coup in Venezuela that abolished democracy and labour rights?

Could it be that the real agenda here is about backing US imperial policy, not backing the rights of workers?

Why doesn't this blog support the Venezuelan UNT, which at the TUC confererence recieved the support of every single delegate from every union?

My views on Venezuela are mainstream. Harry's Place's support for the coup against democracy is shared only by fascists and extreme neoconservates like Pat Robertson.

"Every word she writes is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'."
--Mary McCarthy on Lillian Hellman, providing the best possible response to Zin's comments here.

Zin, I think even the editors of Granma would laugh at your clumsy efforts these days. Didn't you used to be better at this sort of thing? What happened?

“Could it be that the real agenda here is about backing US imperial policy.”

No. You have—somewhat characteristically, I'm afraid to say—opted for religious fervour rather than a rational take on this question.

I imagine that the people here, who appear to be mostly social democrats, would support labour rights whether or not the American elite supports them. Ditto with democracy.

Whereas your particular school of “anti-imperialism” only supports either of them if the American elite do not; that is, each thing—labour rights or democracy—appears to be useful to you only in so far as they can be used to annoy the American elite.

Ultimately, therefore, the imperialists are necessary to you, as much as the devil is in Christian myth--for, without such external reassurance, how would you tell how to steer clear of sin, Zin?

Gene - You regularly post in support those who organised a fascist coup in Venezuela and refer to them as "democracy activists". You posted a photo of a coupster who signed the decree that abolished parliament and the legal system, and said that "you are pleased to note that this will infuriate Chavez".

It's all in the archives for everybody to see.

Calling me a liar, when all I have done is quote your own words (in context), suggests that you are mentally ill.

What are you saying? That you didn't post these things? That the archives have been hacked and that your words have been altered? That someone else is posting under your name?

I imagine that the people here, who appear to be mostly social democrats, would support labour rights whether or not the American elite supports them. Ditto with democracy.

In which case why does Gene support those who overthrew democracy in Venezuela and abolished all labour rights?

It's not a trick question.

Why can't you or better still, Gene, answer it?