Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Why Do Computers Take So Long to Boot Up?

Posted by Zonk on Sun Dec 10, 2006 08:48 PM
from the tired-hampsters dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Computers take too long to boot up, and it doesn't make sense to me. Mine takes around 30 seconds; it is double or triple that for some of my friends' computers that I have used. Why can't a computer turn on and off in an instant just like a TV? 99% of boots, my computer is doing the exact same thing. Then I get to Windows XP with maybe 50 to 75 megs of stuff in memory. My computer should be smart enough to just load that junk into memory and go with it. You could put this data right at the very start of the hard drive. Whenever you do something with the computer that actually changes what happens during boot, it could go through the real booting process and save the results. Doing this would also give you instant restarts. You just hit your restart button, the computer reloads the memory image, and you can be working again. Or am I wrong? Why haven't companies made it a priority to have 'instant on' desktops and laptops?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2 | 3
  • hum (Score:4, Informative)

    by bedonnant (958404) on Sunday December 10 2006, @08:49PM (#17189088)
    (http://www.etrangementmoelleux.info/)
    hibernation?
    • Re:hum by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:00PM
      • Re:hum by thinsoldier (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:11AM
        • Re:hum by moro_666 (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @06:42AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:hum by justkarl (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @10:39AM
          • Re:hum by thinsoldier (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @05:26PM
      • Re:hum (Score:5, Informative)

        by julesh (229690) on Monday December 11 2006, @04:37AM (#17192214)
        If your only concerned about fast startups, why don't you just install Windows ME.

        Or linux with 'init=/bin/sh'. Only takes a couple of seconds on my machine.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:hum by Solosoft (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @08:10AM
        • Re:hum by adolfojp (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @08:47AM
          • Re:hum by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @09:56AM
            • Re:hum by Drooling Iguana (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @02:13PM
            • Re:hum by Eccles (Score:2) Tuesday December 12 2006, @11:43AM
      • Quick? by Psychofreak (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @09:15AM
        • Re:Quick? by LunaticTippy (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @11:59AM
          • Re:Quick? by beef curtains (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @02:13PM
        • Re:Quick? by Duggeek (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @05:04PM
        • Re:Quick? by emilper (Score:1) Tuesday December 12 2006, @03:49AM
      • Re:hum by felipekk (Score:1) Tuesday December 12 2006, @03:01PM
      • Re:hum by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:35PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:hum by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:20PM
      • Re:hum (Score:5, Informative)

        by electrofreak (744993) on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:32PM (#17189538)
        That can happen when you have more than 1GB of RAM. That happened when I upgraded to 2GB of RAM in my system. I did a quick Google search, and found that there is actually a Microsoft released hotfix [codinghorror.com] for the problem.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:hum by iocat (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @09:01AM
        • Re:hum by Jaruzel (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @04:18AM
          • Re:hum by Athanasius (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @05:52AM
            • Re:hum by Jaruzel (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @06:29AM
              • Re:hum by Athanasius (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @07:30AM
          • Re:hum by PygmySurfer (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @04:15PM
          • Re:hum by Dabido (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @10:58PM
        • Re:hum by Gorshkov (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @04:32AM
        • Re:hum by riscthis (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @04:56AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:hum by Angostura (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @05:31AM
          • Re:hum by Shawn is an Asshole (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @07:08AM
          • Re:hum by Gr8Apes (Score:1) Tuesday December 12 2006, @08:34AM
          • Re:hum by budgenator (Score:1) Tuesday December 12 2006, @08:23PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:hum by JAppi (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @09:38AM
        • Re:hum by 1karmik1 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @11:13AM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:hum (Score:4, Informative)

        by TheSpoom (715771) * on Sunday December 10 2006, @10:52PM (#17190246)
        (http://www.uberm00.net/ | Last Journal: Monday January 19 2004, @09:27PM)
        Not saying you're wrong or anything, but I've rarely had problems with it. You need to have at least as much free HDD space as you have RAM so it can write the image, but beyond that it's been pretty stable, at least for me, and I run tons of apps.

        There is one issue I had at one point which is that my nVidia video drivers would BSOD on resuming, but updating them fixed that and I'm pretty sure they've fixed it completely in their newer cards.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:hum by srcosmo (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @03:50PM
      • Re:hum by dave420 (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @05:47AM
      • Re:hum by RzUpAnmsCwrds (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:23PM
    • Hibernation is okay by drewzhrodague (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:24PM
    • Re:hum (Score:5, Insightful)

      by grolschie (610666) on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:30PM (#17189520)
      (Last Journal: Tuesday April 22 2003, @12:52AM)
      Hibernation is still not "instant-on" by a long shot. My P4 laptop still takes almost 3/4 as much time to resume from hibernation as it does to boot.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:hum (Score:5, Insightful)

        by silverkniveshotmail. (713965) on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:44PM (#17189674)
        (Last Journal: Sunday September 24 2006, @11:23AM)
        Hibernation is still not "instant-on" by a long shot. My P4 laptop still takes almost 3/4 as much time to resume from hibernation as it does to boot.
        Mine takes about the same amount of time to boot to the welcome screen as it does to come back from hibernation, but after hibernation i log in instantly, while it takes me about 45 seconds to fully load my desktop (dual-core 2.8ghz 2GB ram, windows xp sp2)
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:hum by crazygamer (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:14AM
          • Re:hum by AGMW (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @03:55AM
            • Re:hum by drumist (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @05:00AM
              • Re:hum (Score:5, Funny)

                by I Like Pudding (323363) on Monday December 11 2006, @05:36AM (#17192424)
                (Last Journal: Friday March 31 2006, @10:51PM)
                ...or you can just go into Quicktime's config and disable the startup option. You don't get that same feeling of beating The Man, though.
                [ Parent ]
              • Or... by Lord Balto (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @05:42AM
              • Or you could by da5idnetlimit.com (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @08:03AM
              • Re:hum by Sax Maniac (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @10:08AM
              • Re:hum by JacksBrokenCode (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @10:43AM
              • Re:hum by ucblockhead (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:44PM
              • Re:hum by Mister Whirly (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @02:53PM
              • Re:hum by really? (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @03:28PM
            • Re:hum by Laurence0 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @05:50AM
            • Re:hum by ozbon (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @06:09AM
              • Re:hum by eta526 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @06:54AM
              • Re:hum (Score:4, Insightful)

                this is still unacceptable. it's a media player. there is absolutely no reason that it should be starting up at startup. same goes for adobe reader. that has an option to startup at startup. why? more and more programs say "it runs faster" if you do it that way... but you know what? the more programs that do it, the longer it takes the computer to start up. ugh.
                [ Parent ]
              • Re:hum by binarytoaster (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @09:10AM
              • Re:hum by AGMW (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @10:26AM
              • Switch by David Nabbit (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @11:07AM
            • Re:hum by Cruise_WD (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @09:58AM
            • Re:hum by Runefox (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @10:09AM
              • Re:hum by mopower70 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @02:50PM
            • Re:hum (Score:4, Insightful)

              by default luser (529332) on Monday December 11 2006, @11:59AM (#17196118)
              (Last Journal: Thursday August 05 2004, @12:16AM)
              Quicktime is a trojan. It hijacks your browser's media settings WITHOUT asking, even if you tell it not to associate with any of those files on startup. It starts up it's own little preloader app which is NOT necessary, and overrides you when you try to disable it.

              Finally, those fucks have the audacity to insist YOU PAY TWENTY BUCKS just to get something every other general media player offers for free: full-screen video. And even if you refuse to pay, you get a nag screen every time you load the program.

              Mind you, I own a Mac, and even though I can use an applescript hack to bypass the nagware, I still avoid using Quicktime as a rule when I can. If you must have your Quicktime files, VLC plays most of them without installing the trojan.
              [ Parent ]
              • Re:hum by cyberon22 (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @02:52PM
              • Re:hum by ChrisMaple (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @06:10PM
            • Re:hum by CopaceticOpus (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @03:33PM
        • Re:hum by msobkow (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @01:59AM
        • That's rediculous by Shawn is an Asshole (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @04:30AM
      • Re:hum (Score:4, Insightful)

        by megaditto (982598) on Sunday December 10 2006, @11:54PM (#17190696)
        Get a faster hard drive (if you are willing to pay the premium).

        I saw a WinXP laptop with a a 10k RPM drive resume from hybernation in what looked like 5 seconds.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:hum by rjdegraaf (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:57PM
      • Re:hum by Jessta (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:31AM
      • Re:hum Ah, c'mon... by davidsyes (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @01:01AM
      • Re:hum (Score:4, Funny)

        by Fred_A (10934) <.ten.anww. .ta. .derf.> on Monday December 11 2006, @04:25AM (#17192150)
        (http://www.fredshome.org/)
        Hibernation is still not "instant-on" by a long shot. My P4 laptop still takes almost 3/4 as much time to resume from hibernation as it does to boot.
        You've got to be kidding, on my machine, I press the button on the TV thing and presto, I'm right where I was before I turned it off. And it just takes a couple seconds.
        And it never crashes either. Those computer things are like magic.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:hum by karnal (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @11:38AM
        • Re:hum by operagost (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @03:41PM
      • Re:hum by Conanymous Award (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @07:31AM
      • Re:hum by hey! (Score:3) Monday December 11 2006, @10:13AM
      • Re:hum by Korin43 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:01AM
        • Re:hum by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @03:21AM
          • Re:hum by windsurfer619 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @07:09PM
      • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:hum (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Nutty_Irishman (729030) on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:31PM (#17189530)
      Hibernation doesn't save any time when it comes back up to rebooting, it's more of a convenience when you need to shut down and don't feel like closing all your apps. You might get the 10 seconds off your reboot when it comes back up, but you're probably looking at several minutes of extra paging time once you get back to using your apps. I once made the mistake of hibernating my machine when it had Photoshop, Matlab, Visual studio, and 5-6 firefox windows open. I spent an additional 5 minutes just trying to close all those apps so I could restart the machine to get my performance back.

      The only time I hibernate now is when my carpool is leaving and I need to shut down my laptop quick and don't have time to shut down everything. Standby isn't bad, but any savings that hibernate gives you are short lived.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:hum by UEinSD (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:59PM
        • Re:hum by JebusIsLord (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:44PM
      • Sleep vs. Hibernate, and Firefox memory-leaks by billstewart (Score:3) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:50PM
        • comfort vs security (Score:4, Insightful)

          by remmelt (837671) on Monday December 11 2006, @03:45AM (#17191968)
          (http://www.remmelt.com/)
          >The other issue I have is that I normally use a VPN to connect to work, and the VPN tunnel doesn't like getting shut down and restarted, especially with a different IP address, so I still have to re-authenticate by typing in my security token code to the VPN client.

          Isn't that what's supposed to happen? You've left your computer for a while, especially a portable one, it better disconnect any secure resources it has. It's comfort over security as usual, but I think this is by design.
          [ Parent ]
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:hum by shellbeach (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @01:36AM
        • Re:hum by Schraegstrichpunkt (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @04:02AM
        • Re:hum by shellbeach (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @06:17AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:hum by dandot (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @07:53AM
      • Mac Hibernation by quadelirus (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @08:59AM
      • Re:hum by Knuckles (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @02:08AM
        • Re:hum (Score:5, Informative)

          by pakar (813627) on Monday December 11 2006, @04:01AM (#17192032)
          Depends on what mainboard you have.. Love my new Asus mainbord with that so called "ams live" feature. Takes about 3-4 seconds for the POST on a coldboot.

          And if you really want to speed up the bootprocess on some system have a look at the linuxbios project, if you mainboard is supported that is.

          And some hints on how to speed up the bios "boot":
          - Hard-configure the HD's you have in your system and deactivate any unused master/slave positions.
          - If running PATA make shure master/slave is connected to the correct position on the cable and use the jumper to set it to master or slave instead of autodetect.
          - Activate fast-boot
          - Disable anything you dont use on the mainboard, if running linux check if you can disable IDE controllers you dont use for booting, some might still be usable after booting the OS.
          - Activate fast-boot, on a warm-boot there are alot of tests that can be skipped.
          - If you have any bootable cards in the system disable their boot-bios so they dont have to be scanned during the POST.

          Just a few hints.

          [ Parent ]
          • Re:hum by StikyPad (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @11:42PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:hum by AlHunt (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @08:47AM
      • Re:hum (Score:5, Interesting)

        by SCPRedMage (838040) on Monday December 11 2006, @02:28AM (#17191580)
        even with several open programs.
        The point of hibernation is that it doesn't matter how many programs are running. It'll always write the same size file when hibernating, so it'll always read the same size of file coming back up. The number of applications running is largely inconsequential.

        Of course, it should be noted that there IS a way to have Windows leave the hibernation file alone unless you tell it to hibernate again; that is, a hibernate once, resume many kind of situation. It's a trick often used when building a car PC. You get the system to the point where you'd want the system to start from, then tell it to hibernate. From then on, it'll resume from that spot. If you can get your system to work properly with hibernation, it's just about as fast as you'll ever get it to boot.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:hum by Sigma 7 (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @07:04AM
          • Re:hum by Mattsson (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @01:04PM
        • Re:hum by drinkypoo (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @01:40PM
      • Re:hum by JazzLad (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @12:04PM
        • Re:hum by AlHunt (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @08:32PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • by EmbeddedJanitor (597831) on Sunday December 10 2006, @10:14PM (#17189922)
      Boot time is generally all PnP detection etc.

      Linux on an embedded system configured for fast booting(without plug and play peripherals etc) can boot in 2 seconds or so.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:hum (Score:5, Informative)

      by RobertM1968 (951074) on Sunday December 10 2006, @10:29PM (#17190050)
      (http://www.geocodeengine.com/)
      I dont think that hibernation answers the question that the poster was asking. Hibernation is a great way to resume a session. But how about resuming from a "just booted, nothing loaded" scenario? For some reason, and maybe it is because Microsoft is revising the definition of "booting", people seem to equate resuming from hibernation or sleep or deep sleep modes booting. It is not. It is resuming from... It is amazing though, that MS now is bragging about how fast Vista "boots" when all it is really doing is resuming from some sort of sleep, suspend or hibernation mode. The poster brings up a good point. Actual booting could be sped up by having a booted image saved - similar to a hibernation file, that the machine uses to boot from instead of actually going through the boot process of loading everything.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:hum by Qybix (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:53PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:hum by phookz (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:12PM
        • Not just memory and registers (Score:5, Insightful)

          by The Monster (227884) on Monday December 11 2006, @12:13AM (#17190850)
          (http://slashdot.org/)
          And there's always the issue about changing it when you make changes to your system: update the OS, Virus Scanner, etc.
          That's not a particularly difficult thing to handle. A boot loader such as grub or ntloader can have its configuration file updated to force a full boot of the OS, which would include as its last step the creation of the new memory/register image file.

          The biggest problem of booting up like this is that the contents of memory and cpu registers isn't enough. The hardware has to be properly initialized as well. Since the internal state of the drivers indicates that has already been done, a consistent mechanism to force re-initialization of all hardware has to be in place after the system reloads the image. That might take as long as a normal boot does.

          [ Parent ]
      • Re:hum by Jugalator (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @04:14AM
        • Re:hum by RemovableBait (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @07:26AM
        • Re:hum by MrGond (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @08:36AM
    • Re:hum by PoderOmega (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:50PM
      • Re:hum by Jake Dodgie (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:57PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:hum by ROMRIX (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:00PM
      • Re:hum by maxwell demon (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @08:49AM
        • Re:hum by ROMRIX (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @07:46PM
      • Re:hum by Joe The Dragon (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @10:12AM
        • Re:hum by unitron (Score:2) Tuesday December 12 2006, @05:11AM
      • Re:hum by ROMRIX (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:50PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:hum by socerhed (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:07PM
    • Re:hum by DDLKermit007 (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:33PM
      • Re:hum by Aqua OS X (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:36AM
      • Re:hum by martijn-s (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:33AM
      • Re:hum by deceased comrade (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @02:14AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Yes, that's what he's suggesting. Use it!! by BobPaul (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:19AM
    • Re:hum by tilde_e (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:53AM
    • Can be a problem in areas with unreliable power... by Synonymous Bosch (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:54AM
    • Re:hum by vokyvsd (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @02:34AM
    • Re:hum by Carnildo (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @02:45AM
    • What? by Vexorian (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @09:56AM
    • Hybrid flash hard drives should help.... by King_TJ (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @11:51AM
    • Re:hum by Mattsson (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:38PM
    • what about mram? by lalikos (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:08PM
    • Re:hum by alcmaeon (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @03:02PM
    • Re:hum by Psyjack (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @10:55PM
    • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • You haven't asked before (Score:5, Funny)

    by JonathanR (852748) on Sunday December 10 2006, @08:50PM (#17189094)
    It is because until now, you haven't submitted your question to Slashdot.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • TVs don't need to do very much by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @08:50PM
    • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by Babbster (Score:3) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:48PM
    • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by McFadden (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:58PM
    • Re:TVs don't need to do very much (Score:5, Insightful)

      by The_Wilschon (782534) on Sunday December 10 2006, @11:03PM (#17190342)
      (http://www-cdf.fnal.gov/ | Last Journal: Wednesday June 13, @11:39AM)
      Also, the hardware on a TV doesn't change. It just doesn't. So you don't really need any of the BIOS' going "Wtf? Who am I? Do I have arms and legs? no. Do I have a cd drive? yes. What time is it? Will there be cake?" If you go entirely to an instant on through complete saving of the boot configuration, you lose all of the plug and play goodness that everyone oohs and aahs about (that is, suddenly things won't Just Work (TM) anymore). If you swap out a hard drive, or add a new DVD+RW drive, your BIOS doesn't freak out because it asks at every bootup what its got. The OS doesn't freak out because it has hardware detection routines too. Anything that can change from one bootup to the next which makes any difference at all to the things that start running during boot must be detected. Try putting your computer into hibernate (suspend to disk), and then changing the amount of ram. Will it come back up out of hibernate nicely? I doubt it.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by bhtooefr (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:29PM
      • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by DarkShadeChaos (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @12:34AM
        • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by cskrat (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:25AM
          • Come on. Look square at the issue. (Score:5, Interesting)

            by fyngyrz (762201) * on Monday December 11 2006, @03:18AM (#17191808)
            (http://www.ideaspike.com/ | Last Journal: Monday October 22, @04:43AM)

            The problem is old-school linear thinking we've inherited.

            There is no technical reason that a computer could not wake up, verify the keyboard, memory, hd, mouse and display are the same (in a few microseconds, probably) and be up and responding very well to the user, while (new concept, brace yourselves) the computer carefully brings up other hardware subsystems and makes them available as they become functional. You could be in a word processor, graphics editor, all manner of things that don't require more hardware until you do something like print or attempt to access the network; if those subsystems are not ready when you try to use them, the design would allow for [establishing hardware, wait or cancel] and there you have it.

            There is no problem whatsoever with plug and play concepts coexisting with fast usability other than current design shortcomings end users have been forced to live with. The computer is running as soon as the HD is spinning, memory sized, and the video card is on and the KB and mouse work. Just because current operating systems don't let you begin working at that time isn't a reflection on plug and play as a concept, it's a reflection of linear thinking that descends from old single tasking systems like early DOS.

            The idea that a 2...3 GHz 32 or 64 bit CPU cannot bring itself to decent usability in under a second is one that is silly right on the face of it except in that common systems are using old school thinking and layering more and more crap on top of that thinking. There is not a thing in the world that says drivers can't be loaded on demand, or after usability from boot, or separately. Nothing.

            [ Parent ]
      • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by Spillman (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:41AM
      • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by evilviper (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @02:31AM
      • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by Grismar (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @02:56AM
      • You should try ... by SpooForBrains (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @04:17AM
      • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by ZigiSamblak (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @05:07AM
    • Re:TVs don't need to do very much by panZ (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @11:02PM
  • Hibernate by nuggz (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @08:51PM
    • Re:Hibernate by Scutter (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:04PM
      • Re:Hibernate by starbird (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:13PM
        • Re:Hibernate (Score:5, Informative)

          by pasamio (737659) on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:24PM (#17189458)
          (http://pasamio.id.au/)
          same with my ibook g4, i just put the lid down and walk away. it always wakes up. on the powerbook hd, and macbooks (incl pro), sleep actually stores a hibernate image on the disk so that if you either 1) run out of battery or 2) manually pull the battery out (lets say on a long intl flight) and put in a new one. If you do a wake when you haven't killed of the power source (99% of the time really), it uses the RAM to continue operation. If you've disconnected power for whatever reason, it will wake up, present a little loading bar (incl a screenshot of your desktop if you don't require a password to unlock your computer from sleep/screensaver). Heres an Apple doc on it: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302 477 [apple.com]
          [ Parent ]
        • Re:Hibernate by ottothecow (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:31PM
        • Re:Hibernate by soft_guy (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:40PM
      • Re:Hibernate by mrchaotica (Score:3) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:14PM
        • Re:Hibernate by robosmurf (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @08:27AM
          • Re:Hibernate by David Nabbit (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @11:22AM
        • Re:Hibernate by 3choTh1s (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @03:25PM
          • Re:Hibernate by mrchaotica (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @05:43PM
        • Re:Hibernate by Demena (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @01:19AM
          • Re:Hibernate by blugu64 (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @02:14AM
          • Re:Hibernate by Demena (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @03:40AM
          • Re:Hibernate by Demena (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @08:24PM
          • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Hibernate by Hillgiant (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @11:16AM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Hibernate (Score:5, Informative)

        by tulare (244053) <spammed@taupeha t . com> on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:14PM (#17189352)
        (http://www.taupehat.com/ | Last Journal: Monday July 17 2006, @07:24PM)
        That's one of the things that always amazed me about OS X. You can fault it for various reasons, but by god, you shut the lid on your iBook, and five seconds later, it's in zzz mode (with a battery life of about two weeks - I tested that once). Open the lid up, go "one, one thousand..." and it's awake and ready to use. I've tried this on some of the newer Intel-based MBPs and regular MBs, and it works just as well. So Apple has it dialed. What gives with the rest of the computing world? My stupid Latitude has such a buttfargled ACPI that windows goes "Derr, BSOD" when I try to use hibernate, and of all the Linux distros I tried on it, only Kubuntu came close to doing it right. The problems it encountered at wake-up were sufficient that I finally gave up on hibernate (as well as Kubuntu - on to a better KDE distro), and simply have it blank the screen when I flip the lid shut. It's good for about four hours that way, which is usually enough.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Hibernate by cockroach2 (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:19PM
        • Re:Hibernate by ladoga (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:04PM
          • Re:Hibernate by thre5her (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @12:47AM
    • Re:Hibernate by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:14PM
      • Re:Hibernate by doxology (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:11PM
      • Re:Hibernate by d3matt (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:17PM
      • Re:Hibernate by dryeo (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @01:14AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Laptops by drewzhrodague (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:27PM
    • Re:Hibernate by Chicane-UK (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @03:35AM
  • Errr.... by JFMulder (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @08:51PM
    • Re:Errr.... by v1 (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:43PM
    • Re:Errr.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Fweeky (41046) <tom.hurst@clara.net> on Sunday December 10 2006, @10:35PM (#17190098)
      (http://hur.st/)
      I find XP refuses to hibernate with more than about 600MB of active memory; it makes an attempt, then returns you to the desktop with a popup bubble saying "Insufficient resources exist to complete the API". This necessitates me closing all my apps before each hibernation, and after a week or two even that won't work.

      Anyway, I remember using something closer to what the story is talking about, on the Amiga of all places; FastBoot [aminet.net] had you boot normally, then save a snapshot of the system at the end of the startup-sequence. Future boots would use this snapshot, which you generally didn't want to update at each shutdown -- you got 2-3s boot times, but each boot was clean. It worked surprisingly well for a scary hack :)
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Errr.... by torklugnutz (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:02PM
    • Re:Errr....you turn your computer off?? by neax (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:14PM
    • Re:Errr.... by Loconut1389 (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:33PM
      • Re:Errr.... by fimbulvetr (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @12:37AM
      • Re:Errr.... by idonthack (Score:2) Monday December 11 2006, @12:59AM
    • I think it must be a different tube design by Sycraft-fu (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @09:38PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Errr.... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 10 2006, @09:54PM (#17189756)
      The CRT filament-maintenance bias trick was done for awhile in the 60s and 70s, but it was eventually recognized for the waste of energy that it is. What happens nowadays is simply that the rest of the signals are not applied to the CRT until the cathode has warmed up. This improves the tube's service life, and avoids the "expanding dot" effect that you'd see on older TVs that brought all the tube voltages up at once.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Errr.... by dwater (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:07PM
    • Re:Errr.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 10 2006, @10:21PM (#17189966)
      CRT TV's turn fast because the tube has a bias circuit to keep it warm. When turned "OFF" most TV's burn about 5W to keep the tube warm for fast start.

      No, they do not "keep the tube warm". Yes a TV might draw a few watts when in "off" mode due to the power supply for the digital logic section always being on. But just about every CRT based TV or monitor I have seen, except for maybe some real high end broadcast equipment, takes a few seconds for the tube to come up.

      You definitely weren't around in the 60's and mid 70's when we watched the tube warm up and the displayed image grow from a small dot to the full size of the screen. Sometimes it would take 20 or more seconds before the picture stabilized. When you turned the TV off you got to watch the "boot" process in reverse as the display shrunk to a dot. It was a big deal when we got "instant-on" TV's.

      Well yes, TVs used to take longer to fully power up, and didn't have dampening circuits to prevent CRT display after being turned off. They where basic fully analog devices, there was no logic that prevented the display of an image when the CRT was not yet in an operational state. In the 60's they would have been vacuum tube based (as in the whole TV, obviously a CRT is a vacuum tube) and taken a long time to fully warm up, and needed adjustment and retubing on a regular basis. In the 70's they would have been transistor based, and would have come up much faster, how ever they would still be fully analog and subject to the same power up and power down effects.

      Modern TV's have digital control sections that can compensate on the fly for variations in the analog sections of a CRT display, and higher performance switching power supplies and fly-back circuits that come up to operating voltage much faster. But you still have at least a short wait for the CRT to come up, they are not kept on warm idle of any kind. At least not in any displays I have worked on.

      I know this is probably getting off topic, but your post was marked +5 informative yet has miss information in it. Having worked on many CRT displays I just wanted to point out that the CRT is definitly not kept on any kind of warm stand-by, none that I have ever seen any way. What you are describing sounds similar to the stand-by mode in most guitar tube amps, where the heater filaments in the tubes are kept on to keep the tubes warm but the rest of the amp is powered down. I am not aware of this being done in modern CRT displays. Seems to me that if you did this it would dramaticaly shorten the CRT's life span, if the heater filaments were on 24x7x365. Someone correct me if I am wrong...
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Errr.... by Waffle Iron (Score:2) Sunday December 10 2006, @10:49PM
        • 11 seconds.. by the_rajah (Score:3) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:57PM
      • Re:Errr.... by jtogel (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:01PM
        • Re:Errr.... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday December 10 2006, @11:17PM
          • Re:Errr.... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday December 11 2006, @08:14AM
      • <a href="//ask