QT interviews RuPaul in Toronto

QueerTelevision: Why are *you* narrating "The Eyes of Tammy Faye"?

RuPaul: Well, I first became familiar with Tammy Faye in 1976 when I moved to Atlanta, Georgia. I'm from San Diego. And I got there and went to the High School for Performing Arts, and all the kids in school were talking about the PTL CLub, which is the television show that she, and her husband Jim Bakker, used to do. So the PTL Club was such a hoot, that I fell in love with it on a campy level, and then as time went on, you really fell in love with her, with Tammy Faye, because she is like the Judy garland of the evangelist set. Just because, in the face of all this adversity and ridicule, she would always smile and trudge ahead. And everybody who's gay or who's artistic or who's been on the outskirts of society can relate to that type of energy. Because it's very easy to become bitter because of it. She's a champion. She's a hero because she didn't let all of that get to her.

And in the process of knowing my managers who also directed this movie - I turned them on to it years ago, we've been working together for 15 years - and Tammy Faye had been on my television show in America and my managers were there and thought, "Wow! What a great subject for a documentary!" So they did it. And it wasn't until really until the documentary was complete that they said, "Why don't we get Ru to do it?" because in the process of doing the documentary they got to see first-hand the similarities between the two of us in our positive outlook on life. Especially in the face of adversity, which is a really important thing. I mean, that's why I think this film is so important for everyone. There's a message for everyone in this movie, because everyone will face adversity. Everyone will be thought of one way by people, and have to deal with that, and have to figure out how to get over what other people have to say about you. I've learned in my life that what other people think about me is none of my damn business, and that's not an easy lesson to learn, especially in a consumer culture.

QT: A lot of people feel that Tammy Faye is a criminal. Why would you want to associate yourself with a criminal?

RuPaul: What I related to the most in The Tammy Faye Story, in what they've been through with the fall of PTL and all of that - it wasn't necessarily the specifics of what happened - who did what? were they guilty of all the crimes? was it a crime? none of that. It was really about the spirit of Tammy Faye. I don't particularly feel the same way about Jim Bakker. I really related to Tammy Faye as this person who has made a choice in her life to look on the bright side of things, and that's what I think the documentary really addresses. Yes, there were lots of things that happened in her life. Were they right? Were they wrong? I don't know. I know in my life I've done lots of things that I would never tell you about. Were they right? Were they wrong? I don't know. I don't even think it's important. I think what's important is that I came through it and the lessons I learned from it and the choices I'll make based on what I've been through. And that's what's interesting about this movie.

The story of Christ - if Christ had been on the cross and spewed out, "I hate you all! Screw you! You mistreated me!" it would be a very different story, in fact the resurrection may not have happened. And that story is meaningless without the resurrection. So it's not necessarily what people do, it's how you handle yourself in that situation. And that's what's interesting about Tammy Faye Bakker.

QT: What do you want audiences to feel when they walk out of this film?

RuPaul: I think people, when they see this movie, "The Eyes of Tammy Faye" will walk away with a sense that you're taken care of. That God doesn't lose files. And that you - no matter what circumstances happen - you're taken care of. And that as long as you have faith, and know that more will be revealed and this too shall also pass -

It's really incredible. Our culture is so cynical and so judging. We literally cruxify people all the time. Just for being themselves. Just for believing in a power greater than themselves. I think that people will walk away from this movie and realize that it's bigger than the both of us. Bigger than what the advertising agencies, or the New York Times, or the Toronto Sun, or whatever newspaper - or your next door neighbour - has to say about you. It's bigger than that. It's about the process. Here's one woman's story. One woman's process. the choices she made and how she got through it. And the truth is, it's still happening for Tammy Faye Messner.

Through this process you learn tools to deal with it, and you're able to sort out what's real - what you should focus on - and what's not real - what you should discard and know that it's just hearsay or talk or one man's opinion. I related to her very closely on that. I've always been judged based on the choices I've made - we all have - and I think that she came out a champion through this process, and she's still dealing with it.

QT: You make a good point. But a lot of people seem to think, "She's a freak. And freaks seem to identify with her". What would you say to that?

RuPaul: In my experience that there's only one of us here on this planet. And it's the child of God, an extension of God's love. And as much as a person / their ego / their pseudo-self wants to make them think that they're better than someone else, you're in for a shock. [laughs]

There's something for everyone to learn in this movie. I've heard it said that gay people or freaks can identify with TFB because she is a drag queen, let's face it. But the truth is, you're born naked and the rest is drag. We're all pumping some look. We're all pumping some drag. Whether it's a polyester outfit at McDonald's or a 3-piece suit in the Toronto Financial District. Does that exist? [laughing] Is that right?

QT: Absolutely. Nicely put. You've worked in so many different industries. What do you see as differentiating the film industry versus the fashion world versus the musical world?

RuPaul: I've been doing fashion world in music and television and movies and I do radio - I don't really think there is a difference for me. For me, I go into my gut and pull whatever is there out. Different agencies are different. Obviously, the film world is different. I don't have a lot of clout in the film world. I'm actually in Toronto now doing a movie. But in movies, I get to play the gay best friend or the drag queen down the hall. Which is fine. I am grateful and I feel blessed that I have a job.

In my live performances and I when get to create my own music, I feel that I have more control, and I can dictate the shape it goes into. Obviously, in movies, it's a director's medium. He uses me as part of his palette to paint a picture, and that's fine. The fashion world is interesting because the older I've gotten, the more confident I feel in my own sense of style. I learned my sense of style from my mother. And there was a time there when I wanted to do whatever was trendy, whatever the big magazines were saying. As I've gotten older, I know what works on me and I know what doesn't work. And I think the fashion magazines are really there to help you learn what's available to you, so that through this process you can figure out where you are. I think it's the same with religion. I think religion is like a school to spirituality. If you don't have a basis in spirituality, you can go and practice a religion that helps you with a program to find your spirituality. But at some point, when you find your spirituality, you really don't need religion anymore. you don't need a church or an institution. Same as fashion. I rarely look at fashion magazines anymore, because how many times can you do the story, "Dumped By Your Boyfriend? Buy a New Pair of Shoes or a New Lipstick"! I think that was the first story I read in a fashion magazine as a kid. And maybe two years ago, I saw that story in a magazine - same one - and I thought, "OK. I'm done. There's nothing else for me in fashion magazines".

QT: Have you ever felt in your career that you've really had to work to represent gays and lesbians in industries where they're just not as present?

RuPaul: As a kid I thought that the fact that I was gay was the reason I was different or unique. And as I got older, I realized that it wasn't why I was different or unique. I'm just different! I just happen to be gay. I know a lot of gay people that are just as straight and one-sided and narrow-minded as some Republican right-wing person is. In my career, I never take a project or decide to do something because I think it's going to help the overall good of gay people. Really, I follow my heart. I go with my gut. And if other people can find value in it or it can help them, I think, "Rock on Ladykins"

QT: Let's talk about your straight character in "But I'm a Cheerleader…"

RuPaul: "But I'm a Cheerleader…" is a comedy about these gay reform camps. People who are ex-gay are teaching other gays to be straight. It's interesting, because I play Mike, who's a reformed gay, he's the camp counselor at this place. It was so much fun to do, because I got to do pretty much the opposite of what I do in drag. In drag, I'm doing a parody of a Glamazon - the way I walk or the way I answer questions or bat my eyelashes or whatever. This was the complete opposite of the same thing, but I'm doing it as a man. So there's a lot of spitting, a lot of crotch grabbing and I sort of swagger…

What's interesting about it is if you are so affected in your life, you don't allow a natural sense of yourself to come through. People are always surprised when they see me without makeup, that I'm actually a quiet… -I wouldn't say shy, but I'm a to-myself person. I think underneath everyone's shell, people would be really surprised at what they find. It was exciting for me to play Mike, because I got to poke fun at that. Even when I'm in drag I'm poking fun at this idea of what it is to be a glamourous monster - a glamourpuss. I never think that I'm being a woman when I'm in drag, because women don't dress that way, women don't behave that way, only drag queens do. Now there are women who are drag queens like Tammy Faye Messner, or Zsa Zsa, or LaToya, or Lil Kim, Mary J. Blige - they're all doing drag. But it's not necessarily what it means to be a woman. QT:Did you find yourself acting as a counselor on the set of "But I'm a Cheerleader…", teaching the other actors how to act gay?

RuPaul: What's interesting about me playing Mike in this butch - BUTCH - way, the director actually helped me out with saying, "You know, I think you should spit here," or "When you get out of the car, I want you to grab your crotch, like you're loving it." And when she told me that, I got it and thought, "I know exactly the kind of things you're looking for. Because it is a total send-up, and the movie isn't judgmental. It's really saying, "Isn't this funny, the lengths that people will go to hide their spirit". You have to laugh at it, otherwise you cry. I said, I don't know anybody who's ex-gay or reformed, in my whole gay career. [laughs] But I do know denial very well. I know it from myself. I know it from other people. I have squeezed my big ol' feet into a small pair of shoes and thought that I was just lovely and fabulous. But other people have said, "Those shoes are way too small for you. I don't know who you are trying to fool". But I relate to the denial. To that extent, you've got to laugh at it, otherwise you cry, simply to deny their spirit that much. But that's not a judgement because everybody has to go through their story line to find peace within themselves. So it's not my place to judge anyone who decides they want to be straight now. I think in this lifetime you should do everything and see where the pieces fall.

QT: You're always going to find the hard-line gays and lesbians who say "You have to come out. It is so important". And it's a really big debate in the community.

RuPaul: I was never in the closet. But there are people who get really upset with people who are in the closet and they feel it's for the good of the community if this person came out and show their true colours. But you know what? Everyone's on their own journey and it's no one's place to tell anyone what they should do, gay or straight. Everybody's on this planet doing the same thing. We come here to heal ourselves, to discover what it feels like to be a human. Everybody is the same but we have different paths to get there. I always, always quote The Wizard of Oz -my favourite movie of all time. Where at the end of her journey she says, "Why in the hell didn't you tell me all I had to do was click my heels three times"? And the Good Witch says, "Because you wouldn't have believed me. You had to go through that whole process to find it out for yourself so that you can own it and have the experience to draw from. But if I told you it would mean nothing to you".

The Gospel According to Tammy Faye
On Fame: "A famous person can be the most lonely person in the world and I really know what that's all about."

On Life: 'We're all made out of the same old dirt. Every one of us. There's no one better than the other.

On the Future: "You cannot go forward looking into the rearview mirror of your life."

On the Makeup: " I like my eyelashes. I'm probably a bit more dramatic than most people would like me to be but I enjoy that… that's just who I am."

On Style: "You don't have to be dowdy to be a Christian."