Related Links:
About Batteries (W.J. Markerink)
Build Your Own Adapter
DIY PX625 Adapter [4/2001]
J.P. McCormac suggests these URLs for Mercury/Air Cell Resources:
   http://www.kcamera.com/main/invnew/newabb.htm
   http://www.kjsl.com/canon-fd/cameras/batteries.html
K-size Batteries Source [7/2003]
KEH Photobattery Price Page
Kodak Battery Guides
Kodak Camera Battery Guide [3/2001]
Lithiums Outperform Alkaline AAs Excel Spreadsheet - Michael Davis - (Extract)
Memory of Nicads Info
Mercury Battery Dilemma (fix for SRT101) [10/2002]
Mercury Battery Related Resources [02/2000]
New Technology Battery Guide (Natl Instit. Justice) [52pp. guide in pdf] or text files
Nicad Batteries (W.J. Markerink)
Nikon DB-2 Clone External Battery Pack [12/2000]
Paramount Cords battery pages PhotoBattery.Com [7/2001]
Polaroid Camera Batteries Post
PX625 Battery Source (USA) [3/19/99; new link URL 2/2001]
Replacement Batteries Site [11/2003]

Duracell has a photo battery guide for still (35mm..), movie, and video cameras, including odd items like accessory metering prisms for Bronica etc. - call Duracell 800 248-4068 for Duracell battery equivalents

As many photographers have learned, changes in law in the U.S. have made it illegal to manufacture and sell mercury batteries as an environmental hazard. Many cameras and light-meters have relied on mercury batteries as a compact and precise voltage source to power metering electronics, particularly in CdS (cadmium sulfide) and SBC (silicon photodiode with blue filter cell) meters.

Reportedly, the laws against making mercury based batteries were not aimed at obsoleting photographic equipment, although they may have that effect. Higher voltage replacement batteries are not a problem in their usual and largest consumer use, as hearing aid batteries. But for many photographers, the non-availability of these mercury batteries in the U.S. has rendered their older camera and hand-held lightmeters obsolete overnight.

For most Internet users, the cheapest and simplest solution is to order exact replacement mercury batteries via the Internet (see below). You can stock up during foreign trips, and it is quite legal to bring them into the country (at least for now). Asian and possibly European sources will continue to be available for the foreseeable future. But we will also look at some conversion options and the underlying battery and electronics issues.

Warnings about Oft-Recommended Solutions - Wein cells and CRIS adapters

C.R.I.S. is a company that makes voltage regulators that you place a 1.5 volt silver battery into which then fits into the Nikon F battery compartment. The device drops the voltage down to the correct voltage of 1.35 volts, but only over a limited load range of 10K - 30 K ohms. When the load of the meter moves outside of this range, the battery output of the voltage regulator also changes. The load is the electrical resistance of the meter that the batteries are subject to. The load range of the Nikon F meter is much greater than 10K - 30 K ohms. I measured it at 650 ohms through 156 K ohms.

The voltage at no load, (batteries and MR9 adapters themselves) was 3.091 volts. The above table shows that the CRIS adapter only provides the correct voltage of 2.7 volts when the load is between 11 K and 30 K ohms. Within this range, the meter was accurate. In sunlight, 15 EV, the meter would be 3 stops overexposed since only 1.823 volts was getting to the meter when it should have been 2.7 volts. The adverse effect of the adapter is not as bad in the low light situation as it is in day light levels.

and Wein cell battery I have not had good luck with these batteries. I purchased a set from a photo store for $16 and put them in my photomic Tn meter. Within two months, the meter was reading at least 4 stops off. At first, I thought that the meter was broken, but then I put in some alkaline batteries and the meter worked fine. Since then, I have never gone back to the Wein cell.

Sad to say, but this report mirrors my own experience. The wein cells went bad in a month or two of use, and were off more than if I'd just used the rule of Sunny-16 to estimate the exposure by eye.

Active Voltage Regulator Solution

You need to use a voltage source with enough "overhead" (4 volts or more) to permit the regulator to work without dropping out. A rechargeable 9 volt transistor radio battery would be one option. I prefer a spare nicad cell phone battery pack (surplus price was $1) that fits nicely under my lightmeter. You may also be able to use taps from battery packs in your handle mounted electronic flash to provide power for the regulator setup too. By using a smaller and less power consuming voltage regulator, you might be able to use fewer and smaller batteries.

The big advantage of an active voltage regulator setup is that it will maintain the voltage at the exact voltage (2.700 volts) without any droop - so long as the input battery voltage is above the minimum working voltage. The current limit on most chip regulators runs from 250 milliamps to over one ampere, which is plenty for most meters (which need only a few milliamps). You can also add a resistor and bright yellow LED plus switch to your setup, and use it as a night-light for checking settings on lenses and equipment in the dark!

[Ed. Possible source for mercury batteries needed in light meters...]

From: "Doug Roach" roachdf@mgl.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Hard To Find Batteries
Date: 29 Jan 1998

PX675 & PX625 Direct replacement Mercury 1.35volt batteries CR123A Lithium 3.0Volts

Special Purchase

Order from

Canadian Quality Concepts
101 Fife Rd.
Guelph, Ontario
Canada
N1H-6X9

Check or Money order payable to Canadian Quality Concepts

PX625 & PX675

(1-3) $4.69 U.S.

(4-10) $4.39 U.S.

( 11+) $4.19 U.S.

CR123A Lithium

$6.95 U.S.

Postage and Handling $2.50

Special Thanks to Peter Hardman for providing this update:

From: Peter Hardman hdvq@hursley.ibm.com
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-10

According to my Duracell 'Guide for Designers' the various types of cells have the following characteristics (I've no data for the 1.5v lithium cells) :-

A mercury cell has an initial (new) voltage of 1.35V. This declines in the first 5-10% of its life to 1.2V, which it then holds until the last 5% of its life, when it declines rapidly.

An alkaline cell has an initial (new) voltage of 1.5V. This declines in the first 15% of its life to 1.25V, which it then holds until the last 30% of its life, when it begins a slow decline.

A silver oxide cell has an initial (new) voltage of 1.6V. This declines in the first 5-10% of its life to 1.5V, which it then holds until the last 1%, then it drops off very rapidly.

A zinc-air cell has an initial (new) voltage of 1.4V. This declines in the first 5% of its life to 1.2V, which it then holds until the last 1%, then it drops off very rapidly.

The life expectancy (new to start of decline) of the same physical size cells (LR44/675)is: Mercury 1, alkaline 0.45, silver oxide 0.54, zinc-air 1.7

Simple meters are just a series circuit and will be voltage dependent. More sophisticated ones will be a bridge circuit which is not voltage dependent. I don't know which ones Yashicas have, but I suspect that any camera which uses a single button cell will be a simple series circuit a bridge would take too much current.

From the above it can be seen that mercury batteries were not chosen by the designers at random. They provide the longest life and most suitable voltage drop characteristic of any of the available technologies. Of course, environmental considerations were also not rated so highly in the days when these cells were specified
..

So which is the best replacement for a mercury cell?

It depends on the use to which you put the camera and the relative prices of cells in your locality.

At first sight a zinc-air is the best choice as its voltage characteristic most nearly matches that of a mercury cell. However there are (of course!) a few snags with zinc-air cells. These are:-

1) Once the tab is pulled off to 'start' the cell it only has a life of about 2 months whether it is in use or not.

2) The maximum load current is determined by the rate at which oxygen can diffuse into the cell, so you will need to make sure that the battery compartment is not air-tight, and also that air can get to the little hole in the cell which is exposed when you pull the tab off to 'start' the cell.

3) They do not work well in very dry air.

Silver oxide batteries have a suitable voltage characteristic, but their higher voltage will cause an error. However this will be reasonably constant over the life of the cell so you can calibrate it out by comparing the reading with another meter and adjusting the ASA setting.

Alkaline batteries will give errors practically throughout their life and in different directions at start and end. They will also not have an obvious end-of-life point the first you will know is when those irreplaceable shots come out grossly overexposed! They are the least desirable option, although if you shoot only print film the errors may not be significant (but YMMV).

--
Regards
Pete Hardman

The opinions expressed herein are not those of my employer

From: Paschalis Ligdas pascal@isr.umd.edu
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998
To: jchong@media-services.ubc.ca
Subject: Re: frying camera's electronics

I can't speak about the Canonet but I know I got wrong exposure when I used 1.5 alkaline batteries in my yashica TLR, instead of the 1.35 mercury. So I recommend not using the 1.5 even though it may have little or no effect in your camera.

However, there are some replacements, like the zinc-air battery, which is 1.35v but it dies much faster than alkaline baterries, so it's expensive. I thought you might be able to find the mercury batteries in Canada.

Pascal

----- and an alternate view---

From: Peter Pflasterer pwp@jps.com
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-09

I just got a 124G again after having one several years ago. I thought I would try a 1.5V alkaline battery in the meter, and I was prepared to adjust the film speed dial to compensate for any inaccuracy, but damned if the thing isn't spot on with the alkaline battery. It can't hurt anything- go for it and compare the readings with a known accurate light meter- adjust the film speed dial if compensation is needed.

From: Ferdinand Stutterheim stutterh@noord.bart.nl
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-09

I understand from another list there are two problems using 1.5 V alkaline batteries instead of the 1.3 mercury type.

1. The meter will need recalibrating. 2. The mercury battery "dies" with a sudden death. The meter reading will be O.K. untill the last moment. The alkaline battery dies very slowly and gives inaccurate readings during this proces.

So forget about the alkaline batteries.

In many countries the mercury batteries are still for sale. The great exception is the U.S.A. Americans could by them while traveling abroud. They can be stored for years. It is not illegal to bring them into the U.S.A. The sale only is illegal.

Ferdi Stutterheim.

From: john chong jchong@media-services.ubc.ca
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-09

I would opt for the HG cell and not the 1.5V alkalines. A mercury, HG, cell makes 1.35VDC until it dies. It doesn't gradually decrease its output like the alkaline replacement. A camera recalibrated for a 1.5 volt alkaline will probably give inaccurate readings as it gradually weakens. Does anyone know of a silver oxide replacement battery and its characteristics? Perhaps that may be another option if you can't find any of the mercury cells.

If you're only shooting negative film an inaccurate reading may not matter since most of todays emulsions are known to have quite a bit of latitude; just don't try shooting chromes with the onboard meter! If you need some addresses in Canada for some Mercury cells I can supply them if you want.

cheers,

John

From: Martin F. Melhus melhus@fdrc.iit.edu
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-11

Shutterbug has an ad from CRIS Camera Services that sells a converter to replace a PX13 or PX625 battery with the converter and a Silver 76 battery. Their claim is that there are electronics inside the converter that will reduce the voltage to PX13 specs. I havn't used one, and have no experience with anyone that has.

Potential problems are that these gizmos are $29.95 each, plus S&H;, and that they may add internal resistance that could throw off the meter. Their simplest contact is at 800/216-7579. Ad is on the bottom left corner of page 270 in Feb '98 Shutterbug. YMMV.

Regards,

Voltage Regulator Designs

Wien cells using zinc-air battery chemistry might seen a simple solution, and they are. But they are costly, and have a limited life (e.g., 60 days) once activated. A typical mercury cell usually lasted years in most light meter applications. You would need a dozen or more such zinc-air batteries, at double the cost, to replace one mercury battery. In most cases, it would be far cheaper to throw away your older LunaPro meter and buy a new digital one, just on the battery costs alone!

If a stable higher voltage battery were designed for use in the majority of simple CdS circuit designs, one would simple have to change the series resistance in the circuit to ''drop'' or reduce the excess higher voltage down to the desired lower voltage level. Unfortunately, the required series resistor would vary with most meters and applications, depending on the current drawn and circuit details. But this is a custom fix that might be offered by camera repairpersons as part of future CLA upgrades.

A second alternative would be a simple resistor and diode combination, which would produce a regulated output voltage of the desired 1.2 volt level. Unfortunately, most zener or voltage regulating diodes are for higher voltage levels. Even if a 1.2 volt zener were available, it would require an in-series resistor to prevent burning out the diode. The resistor value would depend slightly on the amount of current to be drawn from this simple regulated source.

Very likely, the current drawn during regulation would greatly exceed the current required in micro-amps to run the typical camera metering system. This current is so limited, that I have cameras that don't have meter on-off switches. You put them in the dark, with a lens cap on. This trick so reduces the battery current drawn in the dark that you don't really need an expensive meter turn-off switch.

One possible solution would use a higher voltage button cell battery and a circular piece of double sided circuit board. A regulating circuit could be made out of a high value resistor (low current) based on actual in-circuit measurements. If an appropriate (e.g., 1.2 volt) zener diode could not be obtained, then one could be simulated with the voltage drop across either silicon diodes (0.7 volts each) and germanium diodes (circa 0.3 volts each).

Another circuit might be a resistor and 0.3 volt germanium diode dropping a 1.5 volt battery down to the desired 1.2 volt level. Another circuit might be four 0.3 volt germanium diodes and a resistor in series providing a parallel voltage regulator to 1.2 volts from a 1.5 volt battery cell.

A chip resistor and chip zener diode would be the easiest to fabricate in the small size required for mercury cell replacements. Total wholesale costs would be a few dollars for such parts. The reason for using double sided board is that there would be no current drawn during periods when the camera or item were switched off.

The ideal solution to replacing mercury batteries is a simple voltage regulator that generates a stable 1.2 volt output. Assume a larger multiple cell battery can be used, as space is available (perhaps from a strobe or camera?). Many regulators could easily provide 1.2 volts from a pair of 1.5 volt cells or a 9 volt battery. One mounting idea might be to drill a hole in the camera battery cover center. Fabricate a fake battery out of wooden dowel and glued circuit board epoxy (circular cutouts). Solder the wires and orient appropriately.

The purpose of this brief review has been some of the simpler options for permanently replacing or retrofitting cameras to use different batteries than called for in their original designs. But the simplest, and probably the cheapest, solution is to locate off-shore sources and continue using the older style mercury batteries. Naturally, we would recommend that you collect such batteries and dispose of properly when you are done.

Killer Surges - NICAD vs. Non-Reusable Batteries

Photographers should be aware that NICAD (nickel-cadmium) rechargeable batteries cannot always be substituted for non-rechargeable alkaline or so-called heavy duty (zinc-carbon) cell batteries.

The NICAD batteries have much lower internal impedance. They can dump much higher current levels into electronic circuits powered by them. The resulting surges of current can burn out some circuits which are not designed to sustain such high surge current inputs. I have burned out several strobes by using NICADs in them, only to discover that they were not designed for such NICAD use.

My point is to be aware that not all battery powered photo-gear can use NICADs safely. Be sure to check to ensure that you don't inadvertently zap that strobe with a ''killer surge''.

In my 124g, a new alkaline gives an exposure reading that leads to very nearly one full stop less exposure than a new mercury cell. In my case, the alkaline cell appears to be yielding the correct exposure value when compared to other meters... does anyone know how to adjust the 124g meter?

From: Wilf Lee chopstix@idirect.com
Subject: Replacing Metz NiCad cells?
Date: 1998-02-12

Has anyone tried replacing the individual cells inside a NiCad pack for Metz 60CT-1?

My battery pack no longer holds much charge (about 10 full-power flashes and it takes about 10 minutes to recycle). I took apart the box and found that it's only 5 'C' sized cells.

Can these be replaced by any 1.5V NiCad cells or are there special ones?

From: Peter Pflasterer pwp@jps.com
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-13

After reading Peter Hardman's and the other posts above, I decided to measure my 124G's meter response to voltage with an external power supply to see exactly how it does respond to battery voltage changes. Sure enough, it appears to use a simple series circuit which is highly voltage dependent, so the alkaline battery IS a poor choice for this meter. As the voltage declines from 1.50V to 1.20V, the meter reading declines 1.5 stops. This is how an alkaline battery voltage behaves over its life, which in this case would be about 1000 hours of meter ON time.

On the other hand, a voltage decline from 1.35V to 1.2V produces and error of about 0.5 stop. This is the behavior of a mercury battery over its life.

Examining the characteristic curves for these batteries, it would seem that mercury, zinc-air, and silver oxide would all be good choices to produce minimum meter error over life, once the absolute error due to the voltage difference is accounted for. The best choice to replace mercury appears to be a zinc-air hearing aid battery, if there is one the right physical size (I haven't looked).

I don't know how to calibrate this meter; I suspect that there's a calibration pot in the meter housing which seems easy to get to by removing the focusing hood. However, I prefer to just put a sticker next to the meter which reminds me what the error is.

Just for the record: the meter circuit pulls about 140 uA in high light, and higher battery voltage makes the meter indicate that more light is present, leading to an underexposure error.

From: Brad Webb bandr@globaldialog.com
Subject: Response to 1.5 volt vs. 1.3 volt batteries for Yashica meter
Date: 1998-02-13

Found myself needing a mercury battery some time ago for my aged Canon FTbn. The zinc/air batteries just didn't last long enough to be worth using, so I took a chance on the C.R.I.S MR-9 adapter. While it is $30, it's a one time expense and - so far - has lived up to the advertising.

These days I shoot nothing but print film, and don't use the Canon anywhere near as much as the Kiev, so my experiences may not be the best endorsement. However, my camera is back in business.

[Ed. note: This may be of interest to anyone planning on economizing by using rechargeable batteries, reality vs. the ads ;-) ]

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998
From: Scott Linn scott@cv.hp.com
To: speleonics@altadena.com
Subject: Re: battery test

John Lyles wrote:

It also supports a general observation that I have had for the past two years: That Duracell D batteries also last longer (by up to four hours in Lechuguilla Cave) in my light. Does anyone else have data to support or refute these observations?

Purely anecdotal, but here's my 2 cents:

I have tried Everyready, Kodak and Duracell batteries for multi-day trips in Lechuguilla, and I've been most happy with the Duracells. They seem to last many hours past the others, but they are more expensive.

As a bit of counter-information, I use a Palmpilot organizer and have found that under this very light load using AAA batteries, Energizers seem to last longer than Duracells. This was also measured by others in their Pilots. So, if you need long life under very light loads with a AAA cell, Energizers are the way to go.

Semi-related info:

I have an alphanumeric pager which uses a single AAA battery. A standard alkaline AAA will last 2.5-3 weeks. Unfortunately, the battery ALWAYS seems to die at 1:00AM-4:00AM, which is a pain because my wife and I both have pagers (for mountain rescue).

I decided to try and use a set of Renewals, swapping after 1 week. This would hopefully save cost as well as not wake us up in the wee hours.

The results were disappointing. Ignoring the cost of the charger ($12.00), the batteries are 2-4X more expensive than normal AAA batteries. The expectation was that with a discharge to only 50%, they should be able to be recharged "25 times or more" as the commercials say. Note that in these ads, they are assuming full (>80%) discharge, and the batteries are supposed to last longer under partial discharge. My results showed anywhere from just 4 discharge cycles (4 weeks of use) to 13 (my maximum). This was over 12 different cells. One batch of 4 cells came directly from the Rayovac QA department!

Rayovac warns not to charge any other alkalines in their chargers, for risk of leaks or explosion. Well, I had 5 of the Renewals leak either in the charger or in my pager, so I figured what the heck.

I ran the same experiment, however this time I used Energizers and Duracell batteries, charging after 1 week. The Energizers would only last 3 weeks before they wouldn't accept a ''charge'', whereas the Duracell batteries always lasted 6-7 weeks before having problems.

Others have ''recharged'' the Duracells too, with similar results. One interesting thing with Duracells is that I have heard that they have dual separators inside, which is similar to the Renewal batteries. Also, in my experiments, none of the "normal" alkaline batteries leaked during charge or use, in comparison to the Renewals...

In the end, I am continuing to "re-charge" the Duracells. After 7 weeks, they typically won't fully charge back up, at which point I can pitch them. No more rude awakenings in the middle of the night, AND I get >=2X life out of the batteries.

--
Scott

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998
From: "David C. Clark" davidclark@earthlink.net
Subject: [Rollei] Re: Zinc-Air batteries

A new and inexpensive source for zinc-air batteries showed up at PMA.

Scherer Supplies
Box 250
Ewing, VA 24248
423-733-2615
FAX 423-733-2073

Their model MX625 replaces PX625 & PX13
Their model MX400 replaces RM400R & V400PX
Their model MX675 replaces PX675

Cost is only $3.50 U.S. for a card of 2 batteries.  Minimum order is 20 
cards.  

 Sizes may be mixed to make the 20 card minimum order.  Free shipping.

I have no relation to this company, but was pleased to find replacment
batteries at less than half the cost of Wein cels.  They appear to be
identical.  Mr. Scherer told me that the Chinese manufacturer that makes the
Wein cells decided Wein could not sell enough and that heneeded to allow
additional importers.
                     

Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Reply to: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re: Zinc-Air batteries

No, these cells are not IDENTICAL to Weincells. Our Weincell electrolyte is our own proprietary formula developed at considerable expense. Just because something comes from the same factory does not make it identical!!!

What Mr. Scherer is selling is ordinary zinc-air batteries, and they do not have the same discharge curve as mercury cells or Weincells.

We've been fighting this battle for several years with Mr. Scherer. As for not selling enough, we sold more than a half million Weincells during the past Christmas season. For a strictly limited market, I'd say we're doing pretty good!!!!!

Weincells cost more because they are different.

Caveat emptor!!

Bob Shell

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998
From: "R. Peters" torx@nwrain.net
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: [Rollei] Re: Gossen Luna Pro battery adapter

I bought one of the Gossen battery replacement kits for the Luna Pro that Marc mentioned. Odd thing was, I have a second Gossen Meter (Super Pilot SBC) that uses two PX 625 batteries and thought it might work in that also (I did work great in the Luna Pro and cost a whopping $18...including two silver batteries. But this battery kit did not just drop in and work with the other Gossen meter, a Super Pilot SBC. I didn't fool with it, cause I still have a few 625 batteries left. But I was surprised it didn't just drop in and work like it did in the Luna Pro. (It does work fine in the Luna Pro.) I thought a tinfoil shim might have worked, but was afraid of frying my SBC, so I didn't pursue it.

I am impressed that Gossen has made this battery kit available at least for the Luna Pro. Other equipment manufacturers seem to have gone on to better things and left us to fend for ourselves. I wasn't aware that CRS (CRIS?) had any competition in adapters for silver battery adapters. Anyone happen to have more info?

Incidentally, I had a chance once about 15 years ago to buy an Icarex in bayonet mount. Nice clean outfit with a 135 telephoto, but I didn't sense there was much interest in them at the time. The owner complained about getting a meter reading from the meter prism and having to transfer the readings to the camera--Apparently his wasn't coupled. At the time he described the camera to me, I thought he must have been describing an Exakta with an Examat (or similar) meter prism. I was surprised when he showed me the Icarex. I hadn't seen one before. Nor heard of it for that matter.

bob peters

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998
From: doregan@ibm.net
Reply-To: doregan@ibm.net

Must've bought a Yashica Electro 35???

Try a photo store or Radio Shack. I was out tonight looking for one and couldn't find even a 6 volt variety. Trouble is, the 5.6 volt is a mercury battery that is not sold (at least not made) in the U.S. any more. Radio Shack can special order a 164 that, I believe, is a 6 volt variety. It costs about $12. I expect that it will result in slight under exposures.

Eveready Battery has a WWW site that lets you look up virtually every camera and the available batteries for them. It's a hard site to find and I don't have the URL handy. Varta also has a WWW site that gives the specs on their variety of 164 (DA164). Duracell has the same number for theirs.

You can always make your own out of four #675 zinc/air batteries if you are industrious and the camera is worth it. The #675 zinc/air batteries are sold as hearing aid batteries at about four for $5.00.

Good luck!

Dennis

Byron Marr, D.O. wrote:

I am looking for some 5.6V Mercury batteries number V164PX.

From: JAMES GERALD SALISBURY 64422348@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Home made battery charger

Don't just trickle charge a Nickle Hydride battery pack you will cook it!. If you must build your own home made charger use a supervisory IC that will look for the negative dV/dT slope when the battery is charged. Take a look at the web sites of Maxim and the like for sutiable ICs.

Another Approach:

     >One possibility is to use the "Wein" cells which are a replacement
     >for the old mercury batteries. However, here at Kipling's we take a
     >different approach. Every camera that takes mercury batteries that
     >comes in for repair gets a new alkaline battery. We then recalibrates
     >the meter to use the slightly higher voltage mercury battery. We have
     >been doing this for going on three years now and not once has a
     >repair every come back to us with an inaccurate meter or any other
     >problem as a result of re calibrating the camera to the alkaline
     >battery. Now the customer has no problem getting batteries for the
     >camera.

     Kipling's Camera Repair
     45 south Mall
     >Plainview, NY 11803
     >Toll Free: 1-800-330-2106
     >Fax: 1-516-777-1066
     >Email:ericalt@ix.netcom.com   

rec.photo.equipment.misc #13870
From: "Rand E. Tomcala" 
[1] Re: Batteries for Lunasix 3
Date: Thu Mar 12 22:23:31 CST 1998

Sam,
  By buying the adapter so you could use #357 cells (1.5v) you only
solved half of the problem, i.e. the size.  To solve the other half of
the problem you must use zinc-air cells (hearing aid type 1.4v).

Rand E.
 

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:32:55 +0100
From: Spiegel Norbert 
To: speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: Battery Charger Controller

Hello,

a few times ago I read an advertising abaout a battery
charger controller.

The IC is from Analog Devices and is called ADP3810 / ADP3811
and ADP3820.

The ADP381X is for direct main usage and the ADP382X is for
a linear power supply.

The ADP3810 is available for four final battery voltages (4.2V , 8.4V ,
12.6V and 15.8 V)  for LiIon packs.
                                                      
The ADP3811 has a programmable final battery voltage by resistors
to support NiCad and NiMH.

At http:/www.analog.com/ADP3810 you will find a datasheet as
PDF-File
Cost will be under one dollar, when you purchase 10k  ;-)

have fun
Norbert Spiegel    

Great Tip on Extending Wein Cell Life:

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 35-S meter problem  

Eric,

Many classic shooters use Weincells.  To make them last longer, take them
out of the camera when you are not using it and re-cover the air hole with
the stick on tab supplied.  What kills these cells is the electrolyte
drying out, so if you keep them closed when not in use they can last for
years.

If you don't do this, how long they last depends entirely on your local
humidity levels.  Here in Virginia where I live they last from a year to 18
months.  In Arizona they may only last a couple of months.

We spent a lot of time (and money) looking for a better way, and there just
isn't one right now.

Bob 

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Alternative to PX625 batteries

>Last time I had my 35S serviced by Harry Fleenor hfleenor@beachnet.gen.ca.us
>Oceanside Camera Repair  Phone: (310) 374-6506  I had him service the meter
>and calibrate it for the PX625A silver oxide battery. I don't know how hard
>that is but it works great and ended the controversy on where to get
>batteries for my Rollei.
>
>Harold

Harold,

No.  This is not a solution.

PX625A cells are ordinary alkaline cells.  Their discharge curve is a  
gentle slope, like an H & D curve on a film.  This means that as they
discharge over their life, they will move the meter needle less and less in
the presence of exactly the same amount of light.  So when the cell is
fresh, you get a proper meter reading, but as it declines the meter will
lose accuracy gradually but still appear to be working properly.  You can
get up to two stops error from this, and your meter still seems to be
working.

The only way around this is to install a voltage regulator in the meter
circuit to drop the 1.5v (nominal) output from the PX625A down to the 1.35v
of the old mercury cells.  We worked on this idea, but found the discharge
curves just too unreliable, and the circuit must also shut off when voltage
drops below 1.35v.  This gets complicated to design and build.  That's one
of many reasons that we abandoned this concept as a solution to the
problem.

I don't know what Mr. Fleenor does, but I doubt that he builds and 
installs voltage regulators.  He can correct me if I am wrong.

Bob   

From: Dante Stella dante@umich.edu
Subject: Response to Light Meters and Mercury batteries
Date: 1998-04-11

Cris is overcharging. Get the insert from Gossen. I think it's about $18, and you get it for free if you get your meter serviced.

So is Wein. I bought two at $5 each and realized that they are just metal washers wrapped around 1.35V zinc-air hearing aid batteries (usually DA675). Reuse the washers and each cell can be "replaced" for $1. It's cheaper than alkalines, has the right voltage and lasts about 6 mos. Just make sure that they have a way to get air (many battery covers are ventilated anyway).

Date: Tue, 12 May 1998
From: Dan Post dwpost@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re: AA cells in a SL2000F

The thread about AA cells prompted me to respond. The use of alkaline AAs will have very little effect when compared to the NiCads. The fact that the winder seemed to run faster with Ni Cads is that even though the open circuit voltage of a NiCad is 1.25 volts as compared to the alkaline's 1.5 volt open circuit voltage, the NiCad has a lower internal resistance, so it provides more current under load. For such a high load use, the expense of alkaline AAs would be considerable, as compared to the NiCad packs. You could get a set of individual NiCad AAs, I have some with a 1200mah rating, and a charger. They have considerably more capacity than those found in most 'packs' ( usually 800 mah calls) and can be used in the regular AA holder. I use these with my Metz flash all the time.

In the same vein, I have heard similar threats of doom and gloom for those who use the lithium AA cells; I have used them in several cameras, and flashes and found that they are great for moderate to heavy loads, and last about three times as long as alkalines. Their open circuit voltage when new is about 1.56v but under load they are comparable or better than alkaline cells. They are also lighter, and have a phenomonal shelf life. I also have yet to see one that has leaked; a friend of mine who works for the Bunny Battery Company says that they shouldn't leak as the can is isolated from the reactive ingredients with a plastic wrap.

dwpost@msn.com

Michael Davis' Excel Spreadsheet on Alkaline vs. Lithium AA cell extract:
(for those who have EXCEL 5 capability, spreadsheet

Energizer® AA Alkalines (E91 Zn/Mn02) 			
vs. Energizer® AA Lithiums (L91 Li/FeS2) 			
			
Continuous	Alkaline	Lithium		Lithium 
Current		Duration	Duration	Performance
Drain		to 0.90 V	to 0.90 V	Advantage
(mA)		(hours)		(hours)		(factor)
			
0.3		8700		8700		1.00
30		72.00		83.00		1.15
100		19.50		25.00		1.28
125		12.00		17.50		1.46
250		5.90		8.75		1.48
300		4.50		8.20		1.82
500		2.25		4.83		2.15
750		1.00		3.17		3.17
1000		0.40		2.00		5.00
1100		0.30		1.66		5.53
1250		0.23		1.58		7.04
1500		0.08		0.90		11.25

----------

rec.photo.equipment.misc
From: "Michael K. Davis" zilch0@primenet.com
[1] Lithium AA's vs. Alkaline AA's
Date: Sat May 30 03:24:00 CDT 1998

I really like the Energizer Lithium AA's when a device's load is high enough to take advantage of them. I worked up an Excel 7.0 spreadsheet that plots milliamps continuous drain vs. the performance ratio of lithium AA's to Alkaline AA's. I'm using data extrapolated from Energizer data sheets. Anyone who has wrestled with whether or not the more expensive Lithium AA's are warranted for a particular application should find it useful. The following is a 53-line uuencode of lithium.zip, which contains lithium.xls, if you are interested. It's tiny as binaries go, so I hope no one is offended by the extra 53 lines.

Mike

[ed. note: spreadsheet in .xls download format is already decoded locally and posted for Excel 5-up users...]

rec.photo.misc
From: "Chris" cvw@frii.com
[1] Re: Pentax Spotmatic Battery
Date: Wed Jun 03 07:32:15 CDT 1998

Hello,

Skip the Wein cell! I tried it on my Spotmatic, and a friend tried it in two of his Spotmatics. The battery life was very erratic and short. There's a better option.

Buy a type 394 battery at a camera store. Tell them it's for a Spotmatic and that you need it with the plastic sleeve. The sleeve centers the battery in the battery holder, and is removable to use on replacement batteries. I paid $4 for the 394 with sleeve, and $2 each for the 394 by itself.

The Wein cell cost me $9 and failed in under a month.

Good luck,

Chris Weddle
http://www.frii.com/~cvw

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Benson wnstor@pacbell.net
[1] Re: Where to buy Varta Batteries
Date: Sat Jun 06 13:13:10 CDT 1998

Go to; www.houseofbatteries.com they can make you almost anything you need. Consider other brands too, Varta does not always have the Ni Cad technology. Varta supplied the ELM batteries due to location and technology at the time.

Benson

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 35-S meter problem

Eric,

You are right, this has gone on too long already.

My motives in working on the Weincell project were almost totally altruistic, and I am certainly not going to get rich on the nickel a battery royalties I get. I wanted a solution that worked, worked right, and worked in all cameras made for PX625 cells. Yes, we did a couple of years of very extensive testing on a wide variety of cameras, light meters, medical instruments (the medical people were hit harder than photographers when mercury cells vanished), etc.

I've seen most of the electronic adapters, and have found them all lacking in a cutoff switch for when battery voltage falls too low. Gossen's gadget has no electronics, it just makes the cells fit, and it doesn't work when the batteries age. But the Luna Pro has a good battery tester, so it is much less critical than with most cameras.

We did the research, we built MANY prototypes of electronic solutions, and we abandoned them all for something which works much better and is cheaper.

'Nuff said.

Bob

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998
From: Dale Green dajgreen@burgoyne.com
To: speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: Re: Li-ion batteries

Alex C H MeVey recently posted questions about charging Li-ion batteries. I too, obtained some Li-ion's from a computer battery pack and did a bit of research. It is difficult to answer Alex's questions directly without knowing more information about his specific batteries but here is what I found out for my particular type:

First, the advantage of Li-ion is their increased capacity. However, if you overcharge even slightly in an attempt to obtain this capacity, the cells are easily ruined. An important part of the charging cycle is based strictly on elapsed time, not on any electrical measurment. Therefore, to guarantee full charge without overcharge, you must be sure that the cells are fully discharged at the start of the charge cycle. For my type, Sony, the recommended discharge voltage was 2.5 volts. Probably your 2.8 volts is just as good because the cell capacity difference between 2.5 and 2.8 is likely very small. The literature also stressed also that Li-ion's are not to be over-discharged or damage would result. Each cell voltage in a string must be closely monitored to make sure over-discharge doesn't occur.

Cells are charged at constant current up to a certain, precise voltage, then charged at constant voltage for a set number of hours after the switchover. The current varies with type but 1C may be right. My information said that the voltage must be accurate to within 10 millivolts of the required voltage. Another spec sheet said 1 percent accuracy. This voltage is either 4.15 or 4.25 volts depending on whether your cell anode is graphite or coke. I was unable to find the original web site this information was found on so the volts vs. type may be reversed. However, it is important to know before charging takes place. There used to be a chart showing the various manufacturers vs. anode type vs. year on the web about 6 months ago but it couldn't be relocated. Some manufacturers changed anode type to a more efficient variety (and different voltage) so you have to know when the cells were made. I can't find my sheet showing the number of hours for constant-voltage charge but that may vary with manufacturer anyway.

I charged and discharged my Li-ions a few times, then gave up. The capacity didn't quite equal the advertized amount and the trouble wasn't worth the effort. I did try to find a commercial charger but they wanted several times the price of the batteries. The real reason I gave up on Li-ion's was because in the same batch of computer batteries were Ni-MH's of the same physical size, but weighing more, with almost the same capacity. The charging/discharging regimen for these was so simple compared with Li-ion that it seemed foolish waste my time further. I do keep a set of Li-ion's charged and handy, though. Their self-discharge rate is extremely small compared to Nickle Cadmium or Ni-MH. As an added note, I have recently obtained some hi-capacity NiCad's that are almost equal to Ni-MH in capacity, are even easier to work with and have much less self-discharge. Unfortunately, except for AA size, they are odd- sized and not easily fitted into any of my caving battery packs.

In summary, IMHO, Li-ion batteries may be the technology of the future but they are just too quirky to fiddle with right now. I won't bother with them again unless a commercial, professionally-designed charger comes with the package.

[Ed. note: see update below!]

From: "Jerry Houston" jerryh@oz.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Pentax Spotmatic Battery
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998

There is also a 1.5v alkaline battery (size 400-someting) that should work just fine as well. Although the original mercury cell was 1.3 volts, the small difference doesn't really matter much.

That's because the Spotmatic and similar cameras use a Wheatstone bridge circuit in the meter, such that the resistance provided by the CdS cell is compared to another known resistance.

It was designed that way to keep exposures accurate regardless of a fresh or weak battery. It's thus not dependent on an exact voltage from the battery, and should be quite tolerant of a slightly different battery with a slightly different voltage.

I think you'll find the alkaline batteries a whole lot less expensive, longer lasting, and more convenient to use than zinc-air cells.

From: "Jerry Houston" jerryh@oz.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Pentax Spotmatic Battery
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998

I just received the following email reply from Ed Eagleton, and it sounds as if I was misled about the thread-mount Pentax metering systems and their battery requirements. My information came from a trusted source, but apparently it was incorrect nonetheless. It was not my intention to mislead anyone else, and I don't think Ed would mind if I make his comments public, so here's what he said:

Sorry Jerry but the metering system in the sp 500 1000 and other screw mounts is not the same as the later km kx bayonet open apperture metering system. The only screw mounts with the wheatstone design ( i believe) are the spf and the ES series of cameras. The older bodies had meters consisting on single winding meters the wheatstone requires a double winding. The few cameras I have tested show that there may be as much as two stops underexposure incurred incurred in bright light by a camera that uses 1.5v instead of the correct 1.35v compounding that is that it is non linear to the light value so that an arbitrary correction is very difficult to do.

Ed Eagleton
Camera Repair Center

Thanks, Ed!

Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998
From: Bill Mattocks bmattocks@comp-sol.com
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: More Battery Conversion Tables...

Hi!

I found your website while looking for a mercury oxide battery for my old Yashica Electro 35. It helped a lot, thanks!

I didn't find just what I was looking for, but it pointed me in the right direction. I thought I'd give you a link I found in New Zealand:

[ed. note: was at http://www2.wave.co.nz/~vipclub/tech_data/lvl2_4.html (now server error as of 2/2003)]

This is some electronics outlet called "Dick Smith Electronics," and they list quite a few replacement batteries, mercury oxide types too.

I don't know if they will ship to the US (I've sent them e-mail to that effect, waiting to hear back), but I suppose I may be able to find some sympathetic shutterbug in NZ who would be willing to help me out.

Thanks Again,

Bill Mattocks

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998
From: "Morton, Donald P" Donald.Morton@PSS.Boeing.com
Subject: Nikkormat EL battery

On July 28 the following was posted:

"I have a nikormat EL which takes mercury PX28 batteries. Does anyone know if it's ok to use energiser lithium equivalents (L544)? Would it change any camera functions? Might it damage the camera? Thanks for the help"

My experience so far (past 5 years) has shown no problems, only the L544 only last a few months while the mercury used to last for about 2 years! Metering still seems accurate using slide film. I just couldn't possibly "park" the EL in the closet so had to go with the alternative battery. Anyone know where to get the mercury one? I promise to dispose of carefully.

HOWEVER, if anyone has further experience or thinks that in some way the alternate batteries will harm the camera, PLEASE POST.

Thanks,
Don Morton

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998
From: "Michael A. Covington" covington@mindspring.com
Subject: Substitute for mercury batteries

We Olympus owners went through this several years ago :) It's a tribute to Nikon ruggedness that Nikon owners are getting away with some things that our delicate OM-1's wouldn't tolerate...

A company called CRIS Camera Services (http://www.criscam.com) markets a gadget called the MR-9 that is a shell the size of a PX13 mercury battery, into which you insert an MS76 silver oxide battery. It contains a Schottly diode that introduces a 0.2-volt drop.

This is the best imitation of a mercury battery that is possible; voltage stability is excellent; there is no current drain when the camera is turned off; and you get the full life of the silver oxide battery, which is a year or more. The #357 calculator battery works well and is cheap (about $1 at office supply stores). This is a far better solution than zinc-air cells (short life) or alkaline (wrong voltage).

Michael A. Covington / AI Center / The University of Georgia
http://www.ai.uga.edu/~mc http://www.mindspring.com/~covington

[Ed. note: not an endorsement, but presented for your info only...]
See Jeff Albro's IMPACT Used Gear Page for buying online cautions and guides...

From: "D. Roach" roachdf@mgl.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Mercury Batteries!!!
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998

Price reduction in effect for August and September!!

CR123A Tekcell Professioal Series $8.95 each. Order 4 or more $4.95 each.

VPX625 Varta Mercury $4.79 each. Order (10 -19) $4.29 each / 20 or more $4.09 each.

VPX675 Varta Mercury $4.99 each. Order 6 or more $4.49 each.

VPX400 Varta Mercury $8.95

Postage and handling $2.50 per order.

All stock is fresh, factory sealed.

To Order Send check or money order to:

Canadian Quality Concepts
101 Fife Rd.
Guelph, Ontario
Canada N1H-6X9

No credit cards please.

From: jpmccormac@aol.com (JPMccormac)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Zinc-air cells
Date: 9 Aug 1998

See the following for lots of info on the mercury/air cell debate:
http://www.kcamera.com/main/invnew/newabb.htm
http://www.kjsl.com/canon-fd/cameras/batteries.html
http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/bronbattery.html

Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998
From: Cindy cindy@cadet.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Zinc-air cells

John Morley wrote:

>
> Has anyone found the zinc-air cell to be a suitable replacement for the
> mercury PX625?  I've seen them marketed as a direct and relatively
> environmentally-friendly replacement.  Can anyone who's used them comment?
>
> --
> John Morley (jmorley@grafton.demon.co.uk)

I buy the zinc-air batteries at WalMart in a 5-pack for $5. Recently, Radio Shack had a 4-pack for $2.98.

I have'nt had any problems with them in my cameras, but, then again, I am a pretty crappy photographer, and any deviation in voltage may make my pictures better.

:)
Steve

(Using my wife's computer)

From: "D. Roach" roachdf@mgl.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Zinc-air cells
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998

They are OK, but they only last a fraction of the time a merc cell lasts.

John Morley wrote

>Has anyone found the zinc-air cell to be a suitable replacement for the
>mercury PX625?  I've seen them marketed as a direct and relatively
>environmentally-friendly replacement.  Can anyone who's used them comment?
>
>--
>John Morley (jmorley@grafton.demon.co.uk)

From: mullin@selway.umt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Zinc-air cells
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998

"D. Roach" roachdf@mgl.ca wrote:

> They are OK, but they only last a fraction of the time a merc cell lasts.

True-- but if you tape over the little hole in the battery when you're not actually using the camera, they'll last a looong time. You can re-use the little piece of plastic that comes with the cell, that you have to remove to activate it. Store it in a film can or something while you're shooting. Or use Saran-Wrap. The important thing is to keep fresh air out of the cell until about half an hour before you want to shoot.

If you do this, and only use your camera for a few hours a week, you should find that the zinc-air cell lasts as long as a mercury cell.

Granted, this is a bloody nuisance :(

One other problem reported with zinc-air is that you may have problems in really dry climates, and of course you have to have an open air hole in the battery cover on your camera. --Chris

From: "Chris Ward" ccw@idt.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Merc. batt. in OM...,Nikkormat, MX lines?
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998

Nikkormats

FS - No Battery (no meter!)
FT - Mercury
FTn - Mercury
FT2 - Silver Oxide
FT3 - Silver Oxide

From: Craig Henrikson craigh@capital.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Merc. batt. in OM...,Nikkormat, MX lines?
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998

Larry the OM1 and 1n both originally used mercury batteries.. Olympus now makes an adapter to allow the use of (I think) silver oxides, or you can have the camera modified to use non-mercury bats. Very active Oly mailing list if you want more info. "olympus@Zuiko.sls.bc.ca"

Craig

From: erker@sask.trlabs.ca (Greg Erker)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
Subject: Re: AA Batteries don't work in certain...
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998

> A friend of mine once bought AA batteries at a Deli which did not work
> in his flash! How can that be? Where should AA batteries be made?

Some Nicads are designed to be made into battery packs. Thus they have a bigger than standard postitive end bump. Some (most?) equipment has plastic bumps or ridges near the positive terminal to prevent connection if you put the cells in backwards, but they can also keep these big-tip cells from making contact with the positive terminal.

BTW the packs are made by spot welding flat strips to both ends of the cells and then spotwelding them to other cells.

If it wasn't nicads then I don't know what the problem is (unless his/her cells have big tips too).

Regards - Greg
--
Greg Erker, Research Engineer at, (but not speaking for) TRLabs, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
http://angelfire.com/ca/erker

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998
From: "datronics s.r.l." datronix@tin.it
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rolleiflex SL35

>I have been using a
>Rolleiflex SL35  with a 50 mm Zeiss lens for the past 9 years or so and
>while I dearly love this camera I have been having some difficulty with
>some serious underexposure for the last 2 years or so.
>...
>Eric Montes
>
>

I had similar problems when I had the battery replaced at a shop at the corner - the man who replaced it put in my camera a KA625 silver cell (1.5V) instead of an old good PX625 mercury cell (1.35V).

It gives 1.5 - 2 f/stop underexposure.

Replace the battery with a PX625 - if you can find one - or use one of those devices which use a 76 battery and lower and stabilize the voltage to 1.35V.

Good luck

Guido Cova

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998
From: Henry Schneiker hds@rtd.com
To: speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: Re: D-Cells vs AA-Cells for Caving Applications

>> I believe, if one were to look at the published discharge curves of alkaline
>> cells, one would find that the D-cells are rated at higher currents than AA
>> cells to achieve their published mAh rating peaks...

Looking at the current published data from Duracel ( http://www.duracell.com/OEM/index.html ) you will notice that the D cell is rated at 15,000mAh at a discharge rate of 115mA while the AA cell is rated at 2850mAh at a discharge rate of 28mA. Neither discharge rate is very useful to the average caver. If you increase the discharge rate you will decrease the effective capacity of the cell. The D cell rating drops to about 6000mAh at a more useful discharge rate of 500ma (PR-2 flashlight bulb kind of load). Since AA batteries are often run at very high relative currents (relative to their size and internal surface area), their performance drop-off is worse, in spite of the recent improvements in manufacturing.

Henry.

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Chauncey Walden CLWalden@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Response to Kiev TTL metered prism calibration
Date: 1998-09-01

I also got tired of replacing batteries. I velcroed a Radio Shack 4xAA battery box on top of the meter, ran the leads in the enlarged vent hole of the cover, and connected the ends to a dummy battery made from a piece of dowel and some foil. The batteries have been in use for over two years now - and the exposure is right on.

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998
From: Reno Lippold Reno_Lippold@CompuServe.COM
To: "Cave, Speleonics LS" speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: rechargealbe alkaline cells

Message text written by Wookey:

Whilst I'm here what are people's experiences of rechargeable alkalines? Thoughts? And how do their internal resistances and nominal capacitites compare to standard alkalines?

Message text written by Jim Fackert:
Very low self discharge so they can be charged once and stored for months between uses... I bet nicads lose a big part of their charge cycles being recharged from self discharge only to be stored again and lose more juice.

*Higher initial capacity which makes up somewhat for capacity loss with each recharge. Seems like they would be good for applications where max capacity is more important than tons of recharges.<

I wrote an article on this that was published in Speleonics 21 which showed the Ray O Vac rechargeable alkaline C cells to be poor performers.

For C cells, drained continuously with a Petzl standard lamp (nominal rating 3.8 V at 220 mA) to a 0.9 Volt per cell cuttoff, at room temperature, I came up with the following:

Standard Alkaline: 5 Ah
Renewal: 1.9 Ah (new)
Ni-Cad: 1.5 Ah

So the Renewals do have greater capacity than the Ni-Cads I used, but not much. This greater capacity gets less with greater load, and goes way negative (less capacity than Ni-Cads) using the Petzl Halogen bulb as a load with a 0.9 V cuttoff.

They apparently do have good charge retention, though I did not test this. This is certainly a plus over ni-cads, but if long charge retention is important, I would definately just go with regular alkalines.

I did not analyze internal resistance specifically, but my discharge curves show it to be "much" higher than standard alkalines. By making some guesses on the open circuit voltages at certain points in the discharge, values of internal resistance could be calculated from my graphs.

More details are in my report. I would happy to send it to anyone; specify format -- Word Perfect 6.0 would probably be best given it contains graphics.

The biggest problem I've had with Renewals is with the cells failing prematurely, well before 25 charge/discharge cycles (manufacturers claim, and there not supposed to fail then either, just have a certain less capacity). I've had terrible problems with the AA cells in this regard. I've had less experience with the C cells cause I gave them to my borther! No experience with the Ds, but I assume they are poor as well.

I was trying to be somewhat professional in my Speleonics report, as well I've had additional experience with these cells since I did my original testing. At this time I would like to comment that Ray-O-Vac rechargeable alkalines (Renewal cells) SUCK! I'll never buy another one. Maybe someone else makes a better cell, or perhaps (major) improvements will be made.

Reno Lippold o(|:-)
E-MAIL: Reno_Lippold@compuserve.com
HOME TELEPHONE: 607-776-4281
HOME ADDRESS: 7180 Mitchellsville Rd
Bath NY 14810-7901
USA

From: chriszzz@usa.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: How to make a NICAD 2CR5.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998

I wrote this because a few people expressed interest in a nicad 2CR5 in another thread a few months ago. Lithiums have decreased in price, but are still significantly more expensive than AA's. In Singapore, a 2CR5 costs about S$8 ( US$5), but 4 alkaline AA's only cost S$3 ( US$2 ). That's a 260% difference in price. When I first made my nicad 2CR5, the price of a lithium was double its current price ( S$16 a pop !).

For best results, read this with a fixed-width font.

Send any comments/queries to chriszzz@usa.net. Thanks.

-------------begin---------------

How to make a NICAD 2CR5

First, the legal stuff:
Disclaimer : I am NOT responsible for any damage to your equipment or any
bodily harm resulting from following these instructions. Neither do I
guarantee your results will be as satisfactory as mine. As usual, your
mileage may vary.


This is how I made my Nicad 2CR5 for my EOS 5. I have tested my creation
with the EOS 10, EOS 100, EOS 630 and EOS 5 all with complete success. I
also tried it on Minoltas ( 700si, 600si), but not extensively. It didn't
work well on a Nikon F50 nor F70 however; it kept complaining of low-battery
even though the same set worked on an EOS a while later.

This also works for cameras that use CR-123 batteries. I tried it on a Rebel
G with no problems.

But the disclaimer still applies. I can't guarantee it will work for you
even if it worked fine for me.



1. Here's a list of things you will need.
 a. 2 x CR123-sized Nicads (see 2 below )
 b. 1 x used 2CR5 battery ( see 4 below )
 c. 1 x pair pliers
 d. 1 x file
 e. 1 x paper clip ( yep, you read that right )
 f. 2 x small pieces of sponge.


2. Make sure you are able to locate CR123-sized NICAD batteries. This is
important, and if you cannot lay your hands on such batteries, you can
abandon the project right now. The ones I got were labelled PHILLIPS TV
BATTERY, and are exactly the size of CR123 batteries. I reckon they were
meant to be used to keep your television CMOS settings alive. Each battery
actually contains 2 smaller cells in series. Therefore, each CR123-sized
battery is 2.4 Volts. Using 2 of them gives you 4.8 Volts. These batteries
can be charged using a standard AA-size charger set on AA-QUICK CHARGE as
long as the batteries can reach the contacts. I use a simple charger that
can accomodate AAA/AA/N sized batteries.


3. Get your used 2CR5 battery ready. Now 2CR5 batteries actually contain two
CR123 cells connected in series (which is why its 6 Volts). Basically,  idea
is to replace these CR123 batteries with your NICADs.


4. There are 2 types of 2CR5. The first kind has the 2 cells in a "shell".
The second kind has the cells in a frame which looks like a H lying on its
side. This is the kind you need. I used Panasonic 2CR5. You can identify
these easily because the 2 CR123 cells are clearly visible with casual
inspection.


HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<---------H frame (like a H on its side)
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<------File here (See 6)
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo<----------CR123 battery
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
 ooooo HHH ooooo
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<------File here (See 6)
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


5. With a pair of pliers, RIP THE DAMN CELLS OUT OF THE FRAME ! This uses
pure brute strength, and there really isn't any technique other than common
sense. Will the cells explode ? I don't know (see my disclaimer above), just
be careful. The CR123's are soldered to the top metal contacts. Be sure to
leave as much as the contacts intact (attached to the frame) as possible.
The NICADs need to come into contact with them later on.


6. The nicads will be a wee bit too long to fit, so you need to file down
the frame on the top and bottom (see diagram above) till the nicads can be
inserted and removed from the frame easily.

7. Place a small piece of sponge or foam into the cavity in the top of the
frame, under the metal contacts. See diagram below. The sponge serves to
exert a little pressure on the nicads, keeping them snugly in place.


8. Stick a bent paper clip to the bottom of the frame. This serves to
connect the 2 nicads in series. See diagram below.


HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
       HHH  /|\
       HHH   |
       HHH   +------------------Place sponge/foam here (see 7)
       HHH
       HHH
       HHH
       HHH
       HHH
       HHH   +------------------Stick paper clip here (see 8)
       HHH   |
       HHH  \|/
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

9. The metal contacts will be in pretty bad shape since the CR123 lithiums
were ripped off so unceremoniously by you. So straighten them out and make
sure they lie flat against the sponge and can come into contact with the
Nicads.


10. Install the nicads ( you've charged them up, right ? ), taking care to
match the polarities. Be careful here, as I don't know if the cameras have
any protection against reverse polarity. In 3 years of using these 
nicads, I
have NEVER inserted the batteries wrongly. Label the polarities clearly on
the batteries AND on the frame.



That's it. Your NICAD 2CR5 is ready for use.
Each 2CR5 is good for 2 - 3 rolls of film on my EOS 5. I rarely use the
internal flash, so your mileage may vary if you use the internal flash more
often. Since the EOS 5 consumes more power than most other EOS bodies, 2-3
rolls is pretty good. I made 2 of these babies, and they are enough for a
photo session. I always bring 1 lithium 2CR5 as backup anyway. But since I
made these, I've never bought another 2CR5 again, ever. And I don't have to
feel guilty about AF'ing and metering everything in sight anymore.


As I stated earlier, even if your body just uses CR123's, this article
should also be useful since you can use the nicads straight in place of the
CR123 lithiums.

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998
From: Scott Linn scott@cv.hp.com
To: speleonics speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: Re: rechargable alkalines

Jim Fackert wrote:

>
> The big advantages I see in rechargeable alkalines are
>
> * Very low self discharge so they can be charged once and stored for months
> between uses... I bet nicads lose a big part of their charge cycles being
> recharged from self discharge only to be stored again and lose more juice.
>
> *Higher initial capacity which makes up somewhat for capacity loss with  each
> recharge.  Seems like they would be good for applications where max  capacity
> is more important than tons of recharges.
>
> Comments?

Renewable alkalines are not worth the money at this point in time.

1) The only Renewal cells which come close to regular alkalines in initial capacity are the AAA and AA cells. The D's are at most 1/2 the capacity, and more likely 1/4 (haven't looked at the specs in a while).

2) I have been evaluating Renewals on and off for the last 3 years. So far in my tests with AAA batteries, they are basically worthless. AA batteries were marginally better 2 years ago.

I have a mountain rescue pager which uses a single AAA battery. I bought Renewals and would use a battery for a week, swap with another one, and recharge the first. I would then repeat this until the cells went bad. I mark the # of uses each cell gets. Also, for the first 12 batteries, I was measuring the initial and final voltages each time.

My first batch of cells would last anywhere from 7-13 uses (weeks) before going bad. By "bad", I mean that the charger would refuse to charge them (blinking light), would say they were charged yet the voltage would go to <0.8V soon after (internal shorts), or the charger light would never go out (also internal shorts). I then wrote to RayOvac, and had some extensive emails with their quality manager. I also sent the cells back for analysis. He stated that what I suspected was true (dendrite growth over time), and that my usage pattern was a good one, ie don't let the cell fully discharge before renewing. He sent me some samples from their new production runs where they were supposed to fix this problem, I only got 4-7 weeks out of those.

I recently tried another batch after laying off for > 1 year, and that group of cells only worked for 3-5 weeks. So, they are still having problems, at least with AAA cells.

I heard that Duracells used dual separators, which is something that RayoVac uses to enable renewing. With Duracells, I get about 5-7 weeks out of a single cell, which is at least as good as Renewals, but at <1/2 the cost of cells. That is what I have been using for the last 2 years. FYI, normally I would get ~3 weeks out of a Duracell, so using the RayoVac charger extends their life by about 2x.

I believe that RayoVac has been optimizing their processing for the AA cells, as that is the most popular size in most consumer electronics devices.

Scott

From: gsylvest@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Gerald Sylvester)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Q:How to make a Battery Pack
Date: 25 Sep 1998

>I need more battery power, and it occurred to me that it's insane to pay
>150.00 or more for a Quantum battery (which is about 4-6mah), when you can
>buy a 7mah lead acid gel cell (which is what these batteries are) for 20.00.
>You could put several together (as I've seen at least one photographer do)
>and put them in a belt pack, to make a battery that will last through a lot
>of film.       I'm wondering if anyone already has plans to make one and
>would share them.

I did this for myself and a couple of friends. Find a battery place (just look in the Yellow pages) and get 1.2 Amp-Hour "sealed lead acid batteries" (ie gel cells). They should run about $12 each. Solder on the female side of some RCA jacks.....I duct taped the heavy wire to the case and then shrunk wrapped the whole thing. I then put some heavy duty velcro on the pack and put the other end of the velcro on a little bracket that screws in to the base of the camera or you can just put it on your belt....on the camera it actually balances out the weight of the flash nicely. Oh the battery charger is the biggest cost at about $35 but you can get the whole deal done for about $75-80 with 2 battery packs.

Almost forgot, you can either make a terminal connector or just buy the ones Quantum makes. Supposeduly they tend to break around the connector. Personally it's probably easier to buy theirs and just fix it every now and then than to make your own. Learned this the hard way.

This produces about full power recharges on a Vivitar 285 for about 5-6 rolls. With 2 packs it should handle most jobs. The recharge times range from about 2 seconds up to 6-8 seconds towards the end. I usually keep one on the charger and the other my working pack and just switch when the recharge times get longer than 4-5 seconds.

Lastly, just be careful about the polarity as you can imagine. Just buy the Quantum adapter for your flash and figure out what is what. If I remember correctly (ie disclaimer) the negative is on the inside of the RCA jack.

Gerald Sylvester

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998
From: "R. Wastell" rrw@ptialaska.net
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 35 batteries

Shaun,

Marflex in New Jersey sells an adapter made by Minox for the 5.6 volt PX27 battery. It is a plastic shell that fits the battery compartment and holds 4 silver oxide batteries. I bought mine a couple years ago for between 25 and 30 dollars including the 4 cells (I don't remember the exact price) and it has worked well.

The 625 battery can be replaced with a similar adapter from C.R.I.S. Camera Services (it only holds one silver oxide cell of course), which has a diode to reduce the voltage to 1.35. I have not tried this one yet but I am leaning that way. It is also around 30 dollars. I couldn't find their address but they have web site so can search for them.

I have used the Wein Air cells with fairly good results. The main disadvantage I have found is they do discharge with exposure to air whether they are in the camera or not. To prevent this you must cover the air hole on the cell when not using them. I have heard that differences in relative humidity affect their life when not sealed. Here in rainy Southeast Alaska, I have found them to last six months or longer without resealing.

Finally, Harry Fleenor at Oceanside Camera who frequents this list, can convert some 35s to use the 1.5 volt alkaline 625 cells. Harry can tell you which ones and how much.

Addresses:

Rollei factory Service in the U.S. is:

Marflex
39 US 46
Pine Brook, NJ 07058
(201) 808-9626

Harry Fleenor
Oceanside Camera Repair
909 Aviation blvd. Suite#4
Manhattan Beach, Ca 90266
310 374 6506

Good Luck,

Bob.

Date: Sat, 24 Oct 98
From: "David F. Stein" dfstein@ix.netcom.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Polaroid Addendum

Bob,

The batteries needed for the Polaroid pack cameras (531.532) are sold directly by Polaroid for $7 each. Tried Radio Shack and a number of speciality electronics stores in a major metropolitan city to no avail (The current equivalents are Pansonic PX-19, PX-24). The people at Polaroid customer service are gracious, friendly and extremely knowledgeable and enthusiastic. A pleasant surprise.

Sincerely,

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Anthony McKee antman@iconz.co.nz
Subject: Response to Re-celling Norman 200B Nicads?
Date: 1998-11-30

I recently bought a couple of 200B's with totally dead batteries on board and what was worse, the chargers were rated at 120 volts ( in New Zealand we have a 240volts mains power supply ) I have just changed over to lead acid gel cells to power my flash units and they are going well. Effectively this is the same as working the system off a car battery, I get more flashes per charge and they cost heaps less then NiCads, I'm happy. Anyone else tried this ?

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998
From: "Michael J. Buchmeier" buchm@sage.scripps.edu
Reply to: buchm@scripps.edu
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: Rollei Batteries

I'd like to pass on a recent experience I had with Rollei parts. I bought a mintish Rollei SLX with 80mm planar and 50mm distagon for a very good (low) price because the battery was dead and wouldn't take a charge. After establishing that the camera was in good working order with a friend's battery I began looking for a new replacement. I first checked a local pro shop who quoted me $157 for a new battery, then Marflex who quoted me full list of $196 for a new battery and $95 to rebuild my old one. (Another service shop quoted $90 to do the rebuild).

Then I called B&H; who quoted $99.95 for a brand new battery. I ordered two on tuesday afternoon and had them in hand on thursday.

Michael Buchmeier (buchm@scripps.edu)

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 98
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi ramarren@bayarea.net
Subject: Re: Re: [Rollei] Battery reversal question
What is an MR-9 adapter and where can I get one?

An MR-9 adapter is a micro voltage regulator for the S76 silver oxide battery meant to fit where a PX-625 mercury battery was previously used. It's about $30 from C.R.I.S. Camera Services, . Works like a champ, requires no re-calibration of the meter, and the battery lasts about as long as the old PX625 mercury cell did.

Godfrey

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Mon Dec 28 1998
From: doregan@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
[1] Spotmatic Batteries

In response to a question on batteries for the SP 1000, see:

[Ed. note: was at http://arnhem.telekabel.nl/~pjonkman/battery.htm, link errors - 2/2003]

Dennis

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 98
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi ramarren@bayarea.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] MR-9 battery adapter questions

>you sound like someone actually using this device. Maybe you can answer a
>question CRIS couldn't or wouldn't, when I talked to them.
>
>How does this micro-circuitry make up for the slightly different discharge
>characteristics between the mercury and the silver cell? Are meter readings
>different at the beginning and towards the end of battery life, or is there
>no noticeable difference, as judged by correctly exposed slides?
>
>What is your real life experience with it?

Yes, I'm using one in my 35 Classic and a mercury oxide PX625 in my 35S for comparison purposes. The meters on these two cameras are identical.

I'm no electrical engineer so I can't tell you how it works. All I know is that when I put a digital VOM across the positive and negative poles, the PX625 and S76/MR-9 combo read to within .01V of each other. Measured alone, the S76 battery read 1.521V when new, and the PX625 read 1.363V. The S76/MR-9 read 1.368V. There's some variability from battery to battery, this is what these two batteries read in specific. I wrote it down so I'd be able to track it.

My experience is that when you learn how to point these meters properly and are operating within their nominal range, they're very accurate. I can detect no difference in the meter readings between the two cameras using the different batteries.

I've always found that a PX625 in the Rollei 35 lasts about 3-4 years if you keep the camera in its case between exposures. I put a fresh PX625 in the 35S and an S76/MR-9 in the Classic about 18 months ago. So far, they're both working perfectly. I opened the battery compartments about 3 months ago to clean them and check for leakage: none was evident in either camera. The voltages of both batteries were within .003V of the original voltages. I put the batteries back in.

That's as much as I have to report about it. The MR-9 adapter seems an excellent solution to the PX625 availability problem for the Rollei 35s that use PX625 batteries. It's only downside is the cost, but I don't mind that. I have four Rollei 35s which will now be fully functional for the foreseeable future because of this adapter. :)

Godfrey

>>>What is an MR-9 adapter and where can I get one?
>>
>>An MR-9 adapter is a micro voltage regulator for the S76 silver oxide
>>battery meant to fit where a PX-625 mercury battery was previously used.
>>It's about $30 from C.R.I.S. Camera Services
[http://www.criscam.com/.
>>Works like a champ, requires no re-calibration of the meter, and the
>>battery lasts about as long as the old PX625 mercury cell did.

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re: MR-9 battery adapter questions

>I bought a pair of MR-9's to use in a Gossen Luna-Pro.  I was not
>impressed.  For
>starters, the MR-9 with S76 battery installed is fatter than a PX-625 and
>when I
>put two of them in the Gossen's battery compartment, I couldn't screw the
>cover
>on.  This pretty much ruled out their use for my application.  I also
>tried each
>MR-9 in a Leica Metrawatt meter and in a Minolta SRT-202.  In every
>instance, I
>found that the meter needle did not come anywhere near the battery test   index
>line when I did a battery test.  Also, the needles wavered quite a bit.  I
>send
>the MR-9's back to CRIS and was disappointed that they refunded only the
>price of
>the product and not the S&H.
>
>Peter Caplow

As I have pointed out here previously, I am the co-inventor of the Weincell. Whn Stan Weinberg and I started working on this project, our first thought was to build an adapter like the one CRIS sells. We tried a variety of prototypes using a wide variety of power sources from alkaline to lithium. None of them worked well enough to satisfy us, so we abandoned the idea. I was quite surprised a couple of years later when CRIS actually went ahead with the product we had decided was impractical.

Bob Shell

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999
From: "Paul H. Yoshimune" paul@katana.com
Subject: Re: Lithium battery prices... [v04.n202/28]

> could someone please post the actual average & best prices of lithium cells
> in the U.S. ?
>
> ...don't know where it is cheaper to feed my babies ;-)

Well, I buy them bulk, as I happen to use them in both my N90s as well as all my flashlights. Luckily, the flashlight manufacturer has a great deal on them right now - 48 batteries for $120 - just $2.50 each! These are Varta batteries by the way, and seem to last a good long time. Anyway, the URL is:

was at http://www.surefire.com/ (object temporarily moved per link checker 2/2003)

Click on the "battery special" icon, follow the directions, and you should have a whole load of batteries in a week or two. By the way, check out their tactical flashlights while you're there - about the same size as a MiniMag, but much, much brighter than a 4-D cell MagLite...(No, I don't work for or have any financial interest in them - they just make a great product that not a lot of people outside of law enforcement and gun freaks know about.)

If you're not interested in buying so many, Mouser usually has reasonable prices on them also. See:

http://www.mouser.com/

- --
Paul H. Yoshimune
paul@katana.com

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999
From: "Fong Kwok Shiung" schnauzr@pacific.net.sg
Subject: Batt. for Nikkormat EL [v04.n172/1] [v04.n187/26]

Dear Neal

The EL uses any 6v batt. I have been using the Alkaline ( code# 4LR44) as I don't use the EL that often now a days.

The manual say "6v silver oxide or alkaline-manganese". Sliver oxides are no longer in production for environmental reasons and have been replaced by lithium ones and they are better in that it lasts longer and does not leak.

I understand that Duracell in the USA will replace any equipment that is damaged by a lithium (or any?) batt. which leaked.

To replace the batt you will need to "lock up" the mirror, and push the tab of the battery cover TOWARDS THE SHUTTER BUTTON. The cover will automatically flip up. Too close just depress the cover. The manual does warn that wrong polarities in installing the batt. will "slump the energy in a matter of minutes".

>I just bought one of these - can one of you who has one please tell me the
>proper 6v silver oxide battery to use? One of the old 
>Shipman Nikon bookssays it takes a #544; is this correct?
> It had a 6v lithium in it when I bought it - it seems to work OK - do 
>you think this is safe?
>Also - how does the manual say to open the battery door?

Kwok Shiung
Singapore

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Sun Apr 25 15:06:06 CDT 1999
From: doregan@ibm.net

You'd be better off simply buying #675 hearing aid batteries. They are 1.4V (same as Wein although Wein claims theirs are 1.35 - they are not) and can be had in four packs for $4 - $5.

Dennis

SChris1313 wrote:

> I needed batteries for my 1971 Konica Autoreflex T. The local Konica factory
> repair center gave me a fact sheet on using 1.5v alkalines and halving the ASA.
> I could not find the recommended ones but did find 1.35v Zinc/air batteries by
> WeinProducts 115 W. 25th St Los Angeles,Ca.90007. Their MRB675 is a  replacement
> for the old mercury PX675 that were originally used and no ASA  adjusting is
> needed.These batteries cost about $6 each but not having to play with  the ASA
> is worth the cost. Hope this helps .
> Steve C  

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Peter A. Simon" pas7036@terminator.tamu.edu
[1] Re: Merc Battery Substitutes
Date: Sun Apr 25 17:14:32 CDT 1999

The #675 hearing aid battteries have a smaller diameter than the original battery. You must put a #83 O-ring around them so that they will fit properly.

Peter

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999
From: twinsemi@us.ibm.com
Subject: Re: [KOML] Off Topic: Metering (was "Light meter repairs")

Following up from something that I noticed in the archives...

 > Actually I thought the hardest part was trying to solder the batteries.
 > Also I was concerned about heat damage to the cells - something that was mentioned to
 > me later. What did you use for the connections between cells? (I used flat brass
 > strips - should have used copper I guess but it was the only thing available at the
 > hardware store.)

For anyone interested in doing their own NiCad replacement/repair, there is a good instruction page on soldering battery packs at

http://www.xipp.com/frontpage.html

Go to the HOW-TO page and select Soldering Assembly and Cleaning.

The R/C Car people do this all day long. They are quite fanatical about batteries since they race with them. If you see the abuse that an R/C race car gets at the track, then you will appreciate their need for ultimate quality. Sort of like bouncing your favorite K-O down the stairs of the Washington Monument.

Additional suggestions....

Use a 40-80 watt IRON, not a gun.

Find a solder with a light rosin flux. This will reduce the cleanup. Tin the bars and the cells. Then heat up the solder to join them.

Tom Winsemius

From: Anders Svensson Anders.-.Eivor.Svensson@swipnet.se
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: New power for old cameras
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999

Your Nikkormat would be a FT or a FTn, right? The FT2 has a 1.5 V silver oxide cell, as opposed to the earlier cameras, who used a 1.35 V mercury cell.

These are your options:

Use a 1.5 alkaline cell. Backside: your meter will be off, and possibly the meter linearity too. That means you have to apply different correvction factors depending on how light it is - but if you have a transformation table taped to the back of the camera, this might be easier than you think. Calibration is a one time hassle. You must also change this cell often, as it has plenty of power, but the voltage drops gradually - mercury cells keep up their voltage much better until exhausted.

Use a 1.5 volt alkaline cell and a voltage stabilizer - available as a accessory, to fit older cameras. Backside is the cost, but it will be a one time problem. You will (in principle) never have to change the accessory again, and it can be moved to other cameras in the future.

Use a 1.4 V Wein cell. These are zink-air batterys, and will discharge in 12 weeks (or so) no matter if you use the camera a lot or not at all. Backside: they are expensive for a casual user - 24 dollars a year may not be a lot of money in absolute terms.

Use hearing aid batterys. Wih luck, you can find usable ones (same principle as Wein cells) that can be fitted with the help of a rubber O-ring. These are cheaper than Wein cells (1/6th of the price, usually)

Find a source for mercury cells. This might be hard, as they are banned in the US, but I believe that they are legal in Canada. They are still available in many places in Europe too. I would not recommend you to break any laws over a camera battery, but if the mercury cell is disposed of correctly, it might not pose a real environmental danger. Tossing it into the trash can is not recommended.

>I know that current batteries are not really correct for old cameras
> like Nikkormats. That said, a friend has been using a lithium battery
> from RadioShack in his Nikkormat for a while now, and says the exposure
> meter is accurate enough for negatives and even slides. So far he hasn't
> burned any circuits. What's the practical view on this? My Nikkormat
> cells gave up their ghosts years ago, and now I use an external meter or
> just eyeball it, but I miss the TTL feature. Thanks for any advise
> readers may have. Mikal Fisher

Anders Svensson
Anders.-.Eivor.Svensson@swipnet.se

From the Rollei List:
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999
From: Hugh Turnbull h_turnbull@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: [Rollei] PX625 Batteries in the Vancouver area

I don't know if this is too late for the person who was wanting to buy PX625 batteries in the Vancouver (Canada) area this weekend, but they are available in almost any camera store. I checked this evening and found them (for $7 CDN or $4.75US) in Blacks, which is the MacDonalds of film processors and has an outlet in every shopping mall.

Hugh Turnbull

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters

----------

>From: "roland" roland@dnai.com
>Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters
>Date: Sun, Sep 5, 1999, 11:25 PM
>
>
> I am curious about the air activated Wien cells.   I use air activated
> hearing aid batteries which are supposed to be like these cells.   Both are
> supposed to begin the run of their life when the covering paper is removed
> from them.   The hearing aid batteries last only about four weeks.   The
> good news that up until the last day, the performance seems constant.  On
> the last day, the volume appears to drop.

Weincells work the same way, but we formulated the electrolyte differently to provide very flat discharge curve similar to mercury cells and we use smaller air holes to slow the drying out of the electrolyte which is what kills the cells. Most users in ordinary climates can expect six months of use. This will be shorter in arid climates and longer in more humid climates.

You can extend the life greatly by putting the plastic cover tab back on the Weincell when you are not using it.

Bob

From Rollei List:
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi ramarren@bayarea.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters

>I am curious about the air activated Wein cells.   ...

I have not used these but a friend of mine has one in his Rollei 35 now. It's lasted 6 months so far.

>I am interested in hearing of someones experience with the adaptors that
>allow an S76 battery to replace a PX625.

I've used the MR-9 adapter (from C.R.I.S. Camera Services, with Rollei 35s and Olympus Pen FT. It works extremely well, allows one to use an S76 silver oxide cell and get exactly the right voltage so the metering is spot on. The S76s seem to last about the same as the original PX-625 mercury oxide batteries do.

The only difficulty with the MR-9 is that the battery plus adapter is .010" thicker than the original. This is non-critical on the Olympus and Rollei 35 cameras that I've used it with, that small a difference in the battery cover placement doesn't interfere with anything, but it might be difficult in some other circumstances. In the extreme, one could always have a machinist make a new battery cover which would be .010" thinner inside.

Bogen sells an adapter for the Luna Pro and related meters that took two stacked PX-625s, allowing one to use a pair of silver oxide cells instead and producing the correct voltage. I've been told that its the same type of micro-voltage regulator as the MR-9 and that it works better for dual battery devices because the additional thickness is less. Since I've never used one, I don't know the truth of it but if you have something like a Nikon F Photomic FTn, it might be work investigating.

Godfrey

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters

> Bogen sells an adapter for the Luna Pro and related meters that took two
> stacked PX-625s, allowing one to use a pair of silver oxide cells instead
> and producing the correct voltage. I've been told that its the same type
> of micro-voltage regulator as the MR-9 and that it works better for dual
> battery devices because the additional thickness is less. Since I've
> never used one, I don't know the truth of it but if you have something
> like a Nikon F Photomic FTn, it might be work investigating.
>
> Godfrey

Hmmmmmm. Unless they changed it, this isn't true. The adapter I got from Bogen was simply a battery holder to allow the smaller cells to fit and make contact, and had no voltage regulation or any other electronic components. I'll have to give my contact at Bogen a ring this week and find out if they upgraded the adapter.

Bob

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999
From: Bill Barton wbill@bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters

Roland,

I have used the Wein cells, they work fine, but I was not happy with the life of them. I would only get about 6 months and sometimes less. I have since purchased a CRIS adp. that uses the 76 style battery, right now I have over 1 year with no problem on my M-5 But I did hate having to spend 39.95 for the CRIS adp....Bill

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999
From: Marc James Small msmall@roanoke.infi.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters

At 10:25 PM 9/5/1999 -0000, roland wrote:

>I am interested in hearing of someones experienct with the adaptors that
>allow an A76 battery to replace a PX625.

Well, most, if not all, Gossen meters have compensated circuits so that there is no direct need for the flat discharge curve of the mercury cell. Gossen sells an adapter kit for their meters which simply fits two of the silver-oxide PX76 cells into the meter cavity.

Works like a charm. Accuracy is maintained.

Marc

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999
From: "R. Peters" torx@nwrain.net
Subject: [Rollei] OT: Battery substitution, Gossen meter

I noticed a mention of a Gossen battery replacement kit that uses Alkaline batteries. Maybe so, but the only replacement kit I'm aware of is the one that uses two 1.5v silver batteries. I bought one. Basically it consists of the two batteries plus a plastic "collar" to shim the batteries. Works great. TA person could buy O rings at a plumbing supply shop and they should work just as well with the MS76 batteries. The only thing in the Gossen "kit" you couldn't easily fabricate are the decals.

As mentioned, the Gossen meter apparently compensates for different voltage. I don't know that a Nikon F would--Although using these batteries shouldn't be any worse (for the meter) than using two alkaline batteries.

bob

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Battery substitution, Gossen meter

Over the last few days I have investigated this whole subject.

The plain fact is that the Gossen Luna-Pro (Lunasix outside the USA) DOES NOT have any voltage regulation in its circuitry. No other Gossen meter from the 60s or 70s has voltage regulation in its design either.

If you use a battery with a different voltage, you MUST recalibrate the meter to get accurate readings.

I know of no light meter, hand held or built in, from the 60s or 70s with voltage regulation. It was not needed with mercury cells and there would have been no reason on earth for a designer to include circuitry to allow use of other types of batteries which did not exist in those days.

Bob

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Battery substitution, Gossen meter

BTW, the first Gossen meter to include voltage regulation was the Lune Pro F according to repair technicians who work on Gossen meters.

Bob

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi ramarren@bayarea.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Battery substitution, Gossen meter

>Not exactly, the Nikon FTn and the F2 were designed SPECIFICALLY for
>the 76 cells (2) they are not substitutes or replacements.

The Nikon F2 takes two S76 silver oxide cells or one CR1/3N lithium cell. The Nikon F Photomic prism heads (Photomic, Photomic FT, Photomic FTn) take two PX-13 or PX-625 mercury oxide cells.

Godfrey

From Rollei Mailing List
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999
From: "Sheldon D. Stokes" s.d.stokes@att.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Informations about 2000f/3003

....

Nickel metal hydride batteries have slightly different charging requirements. They don't like to be recharged in series like ni-cads. The charging circuit is also different and requires some more sophisticated electronics to properly charge the batteries. So it's doubtful that a change in rechargable battery type will be easily doable.

However panasonic has some fine nicad lines available cheaply in digikey. Some have very good power storage.

Sheldon

From Nikon Manual Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999
From: WdshpBiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Homemade Quantum Battery pack

Paul,

The link you are looking for is: http://w-3productions.com/batterypack/

I haven't actually built the thing, but I'd love to hear from anybody who has.

William Sampson

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000
From: doregan@ibm.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: ***battery replacement*** RIPOFF

$5.00 for a little plastic collar to put around a #675 zinc/air battery? You can buy a #83 rubber "O" ring in a good hardware store for about 30 cents to do the same and approximate the dimensions of a PX625 mercury battery.

Dennis

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000
From: Andrew Morang morang@magnolia.net
Subject: [Rollei] RE: Mercury PX13 batteries

From: "Waid, Jerry F" jerry.f.waid@lmco.com
Subject: [Rollei] Mallory PX-13 batteries

Hi all,

Once again need help from the experts. I just received a light meter with a camera I purchased.

I takes two Mallory PX-13 batteries and I do not believe that they are manufactured any more. Anyone have a good source or know of a reliable, lasting solution?

Thanks,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Below is a web page for a chap that sells the genuine mercury PX-13 cells. I believe these cells are from China. I bought a Chinese mercury cell in Chinatown in New York City in 1998, but I have not used it yet. The genuine Varta cells are still available in Switzerland, where I bought a couple in 1998, but I do not know if anyone imports them to the USA.

Beware about using the alkaline 625A cells because they produce a different voltage than the 1.35 V mercury cells. Also, the alkaline voltage drops steadily as the cell ages, whereas the mercury cells were remarkably constant until they abruptly died. Some cameras and meters can accommodate the alkaline cells, but others were designed specifically for the 1.35 mercury cells only. There is a lot of discussion in various photo columns about mercury vs. alkaline.

http://www.gis.net/~amjas/px625.html [new link address is http://www.px625.com as of 2/2001]

Good luck,

Andy Morang
Vicksburg, MS

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000
From: Dirk-Roger Schmitt Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@dlr.de
Subject: [Rollei] Charging of batteries

Folks,

here is a final statement on charging:

The rules for NiCads are:

1. Normal charging: Take a tenth in Ampere of the capacity (CA) of say 500 mAh which is 50 mA as charging current. Charging time is CA/Current + 40 %. In this example it comes out to 14 hours charging with 50 mA. From time to time 24 hours charging if the cell has been completely discharged or for very first use is recommended.

2. Quick charging: Take 30 % of CA in Ampere. Charging time is again CA/Current + 40 %. This comes out to about 4.5 hours with 150 mA.

3. Rapid charging: Take 100 % of CA in Ampere. Charging MUST be done using permanent Voltage monitoring. Switch off charging if the Voltage reaches a threshold of 1.52 V per cell at 20 Centigrades. Use temperature compensation for Voltage threshold of -4 mV/Centigrade. Never reach a higher Voltage than 1.55 V per Cell at +10 Centigrades. Use a thermo switch which stops charging at 50 centigrades cell temperature.

4. Permant charging to keep the batteries fresh: Take 3 of CA in Ampere. For 500 mAh this comes to 15 mA.

The rules for NiMH are:

1. Normal charging as for NiCads

2. Quick charging: Take 20 % of CA for 7 hours

3. Rapid charging: Forbidden

4. Permanent charging as for NiCad

Source of data: Varta battery manuals

From my knowledge the Rollei quick charger for 2000/3003 and the old one for SLX/600X uses charging scheme 3 first, after reaching of the threshold voltage it than switches to 50 mA. I think the new one for 600X (which is an excellent electronically designed part) first uses scheme 3 and than switches to scheme 4. The nice small chargers Rollei delivered with flashes to charge 4 Mignon cells separately work with scheme 2. (All for NiCad)

Look on the printed output current of your charger and you know which scheme is used. Due to the upgrade of the CA of newer cells you must correct their charging time appropriately.

Greetings

Dirk

[Ed. note: whys behind mercury battery issues...]
From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999
From: Marc James Small msmall@roanoke.infi.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Old Gossen Light Meters

Roland Schregle wrote:

>You must be referring to
>the likes of the PX-625. Varta still makes them, and they do last aeons.
>I have a few which must be over 10 years old. As for the mercury content,
>it's pretty much left up to one's own discretion to dump them in a battery
>container. I'd imagine they have those in the states too, so why ban them?
>(Ok, mercury isn't the safest thing under the sun...)

Well, no we DON'T have "battery containers": in most areas, discarded batteries are inserted into the general trash stream. The problem is that the government, in effect, asked the battery manufacturers to set up such a system for the discarding of mercury cells, and the response of the battery manufacturers and retailers was simply to jerk the mercury cells off the market. A "deposit" system was considered -- that is, you would pay, say, a $10 charge every time you bought a mercury cell, to be refunded when you turned a dead cell into a retail outlet for credit, but the retailers didn't want the hassle. Easier to dump mercury cells, requiring folks to buy new gear.

The really annoying part is that the average flourescent light tube has about the same mercury content as ten PX625's, and there are a LOT more dead flourescent light tubes being discarded every day, but no one has done anything to limit these.

Marc

msmall@roanoke.infi.net

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999
From: "R. Peters" torx@nwrain.net
Subject: [Rollei] Zinc Air Cells

Well, that's one way to look at it. However, At my neighborhood camera store, the Wein cells sell for about $7. They last maybe 6 months--maybe a tad more. The mercury cells, in my experience, lasted maybe 5 years, and I've heard of people getting 10 (!) years out of them. So it would take roughly 5 or 6 (or more) zinc air cells ($35 to $40) to equal the performance of one mercury cell which were about $3 before their sale was..."discouraged"...

So, although the CRIS (PX625 to MS76) adapter cell sells for around $30, over time the cost would probably be recovered just in battery savings for those cameras that are "keepers".

By the way, the label on the Zinc air batteries that I read said they could not be "stacked", so--if that is correct--using them in those cameras or meters that take two batteries may not be an option. I don't know if that's because they are too thick, or if the "air holes" dont breathe when doubled up.

bob

Date: Mon, 17 May 1999
From: "Alan" ajacobs2@tampabay.rr.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.people
Subject: Re: BAD INFO - Using nicads in Photoequipment

Data Wrong....Sorry

JIB jbuf@ix.netcom.com wrote

> > >Figure out what kind of draw your camera is usually using, though I'd bet
> > >you'll want to use Energizer.  Or, if you want to save money and be a
> > >little more environmentally friendly, get hold of the new large-capacity
> > >NiCads that Panasonic is selling and buy a quick-charger (I picked up a
> > >smart 3-hour charger for $20 from radio shack).  They don't hold their
> > >power as long if they're stored out of the device (they like to have a
> > >*tiny* amount of draw on them to hold their power better), so store them
> > >in something you're using if you want the juice to last more than a few
> > >days.

No this is called drawdown....

Wrong info, theory close.....

>   you have to be careful doing this.  The NiCads cells are 1.1 volts and the
> alkaline cells are 1.2 volts.  So if you are using NiCads in a device that
> uses only one or two, there should be no problem.  But in a motordrive with
> ten cells the difference becomes 11 volts versus 12 volts.  This can lead to a
> problem as it can put unnecessary strain on the drive or whatever you are using.

Correct Info

Ten Alkali cells = 10x1.5 = 15 volts
Ten Nicad or NiMh = 10x 1.2 = 12 Volts
Thus Eight Nicads = 8 x1.2 = 9.6
I believe the MD-4 takes 8 cells at 8 x1.5 = 12 Volts

Ever wonder why all those rechargeable drills come in 2.4, 3.6, 4.8, 7.2, 9.6, 12, 14.4 all multiples of 1.2, the standard for NiCads and now NiMh.

Alkali cells in AAA, AA, C, D = 1.5 volts ( four of them give you six volts) Most NI-Cads and Nickel metal Hydride (replacing Ni-Cads as per the US environmental code) produce 1.2 VOLTs. four of them equal 4.8 VOLTS. What you should do is go back to Radio Shack with your checkbook and buy an inexpensive voltmeter and I'll teach you to use it. The number your are thinking of is the capacity measured in Mah or milleamp hours or mille = thousandths. So the new Panasonic is 1100mah, some of the NiMh will come close to 1450 Mah and they are from Quest and would you believe Kodak.. ( Kodak spent the bucks on batteries as their Digital line of cameras are hogs, most are) Any way enough of this discourse, here's my notes from the seminar I did on batteries at the last regional PMA. I didn't want to do it but when data is wrong, little things blow up.....

Batteries: I hate batteries!

Last year I wrote an article on a powerpack you can build in ten minutes and will run your Kodak, Nikon or Olympus for ten times longer than a set of the best NiMh batteries and a ten year old can build it. All the parts are off the shelf at Home Depot and Discount Auto Parts. And it does work on strobe and porta packs.

For a glimpse of the plans got to http://w-3productions.com/batterypack/ The version for the new forthcoming article for POP is easier to build, I made changes and will be upgrading the website. No soldering and four less parts. If you can't wait e-mail me....

Most of the complaints in your stores about digital are about batteries. It is simple to understand. You can't put a big battery in a small camera. Let me re-phrase this: The demands of digital cameras for power is high and 1450 or so MAH batteries still don't give you much gas for the buck. You own eight, you will be buying more. You are powering The LCD, CCD, Zoom, Memory, Flash, and Downloads. Plus, the continual peeks at the results to confirm and showing everybody your new toy. Thus the camera is very battery dependent. So if you only take a few pictures at a time, fine read no further.

I have seen long arguments and discussions for the outgoing Ni-Cads (EPA) and the NiMh. Yes NiMh is technically far superior to NiCads, but it too has faults like charged shelf life. Most can drop up to 10 % in the first 24 hours and that amount per day till it tapers off to about 3% loss per day. Heat is another problem. The faster the charger the hotter the battery gets when you pop them out and they will flat burn you in a one hour charger. Slow is better for charging them as they will last longer. The occasional amateur user is probably very content with what you consider performance. Most amateurs are. So leave your batteries after a real good charge alone, not use them for ten days and go take some pictures in high resolution mode and you will be modus non-operendi, quicker than you think...

What you might not know about NiMh is that an AA NiMh is only 1.2 volts just like Ni-Cads. It exceeds in amperage hours and in some cases double the storage of an Ni-Cad. Thus your four batteries NiMh batteries are producing 4.8 total volts and if the NiMh combined power will drop below 4.5 in most digital cameras, the camera stops. Bottom line, no power no pictures.... the numbers on the side are in amphours or duration, not voltage...voltage is usually 1.2 and may go slightly higher after a fast hot charge, but will drop the second the charger is turned off and the cooling process begins.

Our project pack costs less than most NiMH batteries with chargers, as you would have to buy six or eight sets of batteries to match its output. In fact a Radio Shack 23-405, one hour charger, costs $28.00 and four 1200 NiMH Radio Shack batteries cost $20.00 more, for a total of $48.00. Thus, it costs $2.00 more than our project pack for an eighth of its power. Yes there are some batteries and kits for as little as twenty dollars but, now you got small parts, more pieces, more fumbling etc. and a second and third set of batteries and your still short. Quest and others have risen to the occasion but still small batteries you change often tend to break little battery doors on cameras.

The lead acid battery does not have the radical drop that NiMH batteries have in the first 24 hours after storing. You don't have to carry spare batteries in your pocket, which can burn you if contact is made with keys, or other metallic objects. After two months on the shelf our pack still shot a wedding. Lead acid can take all the charging you can give it. And with a trickle charger its always there. And the pack will power ten other projects..

The project pack costs less than the Quantum Battery model 1+ and the adapter for your camera .$132.00 less. This pack will work on other devices such as strobes, radios, lights, etc. The charger will recharge the battery in your car in a jam, so take it with you on trips. This pack can prevent corrosion in your camera from leaking batteries, especially the renewable Alkalis, which have a horrible track record for leaking. This pack has no memory effect problems.

The Digi 4000 sold at Ritz only has five small AA batteries (Toshiba) enclosed and a 14-hour recharge time. Our project battery unit is 4 amp hours of power with a five-hour recharge time. And costs less than the Digi 4000 by about $3.00.

You see this pack is four amp hours at 6.36 volts vs. your 1300 Mah AA batteries so your capacity with five sets of batteries equals 1300 MAH x 5 sets x 4.8 volts (5.2 Max) Most Nikons and Olympus stop functioning at 4.45-4.5 volts and show as low battery. It's like running the 100 yards but starting at 150 yards. Or 1300x4=5.2 drops to 4.5 and stops.. 6.36 Volts to 4.5, you get the idea and I got FOUR AMP HOURS not mille (thousands) amp hours.

We ran a few tests, and we stopped at 550+ shots because we were tired and bored and didn't want to blow the flash out so I ran the darn thing down using it with a flashlight adapter. Actually we used three different cameras. You can overheat digital cameras and didn't want to do harm to them. I can redo my battery for 9.65 cents and it will run another three years... and with adapters run my cell phones, my 283's, two or three at a time, my Radios (side band ) and start my car with the charger. The pack also runs my GPS and other search and rescue gear. We think it could run my laser designator and rescue beacon for three to four weeks. Those NiMh will drop off in several days and will soon not function. There are no outlets in no-mans land.

Full charge in five hours with no memory effect or NiMh drop-off. My converter will recharge to full in two hours from a twelve volt auto battery but that will be another article....

My retail costs for the parts were as follows: $9.65 for the battery plus $16.95 for the charger plus $9.95 for the cable total and about $10.00 for a case= $46.00 (Current street price)

The only drawback is an eighth of an inch cord from your belt to the camera. Its about two feet long and connects to a small pack on you belt size of a pack of cigarettes. Lot easier than carrying twenty batteries. And how many hands does it take to change four batteries? Three! And Murphy states the picture of the year only occurs while changing batteries.

I keep a spare in my backpack and go in the woods for up to two weeks. And I don't change a battery for a week and don't worry about leaks, corrosion, mismatched output, 4.5-volt drop dead and inconsistent flashing.

The Wedding and the Digital Camera.

Who would deny that a wedding carefully planned by four or five diligent workers goes to chaos the day it happens as the directors all become the actors and no one is in charge the minute the play begins. Enter the photographer to coordinate the ballet. (and based on today's statistics it will have a sixty percent chance of failure) Its not the amount of actual flashes that determine the capacity of your power source. In a four hour wedding, the camera also is burning juice between shots. The camera burns juice when you confirm the shot and show it to ten people. When you zoom etc.

In other words when these "scientist types" write their little dissertations on whose batteries performed better, in most cases it means nothing. Just sitting there and taking pictures one after another with or without flash is not indicative of the real usage of a digital camera. . This is why John calls in and says I got ninety shots out of my Nikon, Fred went to the wedding and 45 minutes later his camera was dead after ten shots. Are you getting the picture.

I have read many tests on NiMh batteries but the major problem we ran into with our tests were inconsistency of the recharge and variance of production via the different manufacturers and suppliers. They went up and down all over the scale. We opened up some of the batteries and found other manufacturer's names on them. So, when we read some of the letters posted that so and so was better than so and so we had a laugh.

Battery Trivia

Lithium batteries have been declared as dangerous by the Federal Government when used in electrical devices, there is a Federal warning out. Check under battery chargers, one of the companies had it on their page or use your browser.

The DigiFlash 2000 Battery pack is five Toshiba's in a plastic cell phone cartridge. It's not really worth its suggested price for what it produces.

Radio Shack gets 5 bucks for an NiMh double A

The Federal government has an open bid for millions of dollars worth of batteries to be used by our troops in the war theatre. That will be the electronic warrior of the year 2000 . They batteries have to be light, not activated till in the field by water or urine , (unlimited shelf life), portable and environmentally safe ( that's so we can blow the shit out of someplace and not harm the environment, go figure)

No one has this on the market or come close...you might understand my interest in batteries...

God Bless you all

Have fun ,

Help a photographer to read, get him a book with pictures!

--
Just My Opinion

Alan

Date: Sun, 30 May 1999
From: David & Robyn Brown jorde@swbell.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: help spotmatic battery

Sergio wrote:

> what kind of today-manufactured cell can work in a 1964s Pentax Spotmatic?
> (code# & synonims, please)
> does anybody sell them on-line? (possibly in Europe).
> THANKS

It is not the 625. It is the 400.

Search Deja news or old posts on this newsgroup for Canadian Quality Concepts. They have the batteries, I just got one for my old Spotmatic. Unfortunately, I can't put my hands on a URL or Email address.

Good Luck!

David.

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi ramarren@bayarea.net
Subject: [Rollei] Re: Battery Problems

This has been asked many many times.

PX-625:

1) Use the MR-9 battery adapter and an S76 Silver oxide cell. See http://www.criscam.com/ for details on the MR-9.

2) Buy PX625 mercury cells from overseas or through those who import them. Search with Deja News and you'll find a half dozen suppliers.

3) Use the Wein cells, they work well.

4) Have the meter recalibrated for PX625A alkaline cells.

PX-27:

1) Use the Minox 8x11 battery kit, which is a sleeve holder and 4 S386 Silver oxide cells.

2) Buy PX-27 mercury cells from overseas or through suppliers...

I use options #1 and #2 in both cases.

Godfrey

>I should like to ask a question which I'm sure has been asked many times
>before, however being new to the forum have not seen the answers given.
>
>I am collecting Rollei 35's (particularly black one's) but am greatly
>concerned by the battery availability problems e.g. 1.35v PX-625 and 5.6v
>PX-27. Please could someone alot wiser than I advise me of current
>equivalents or modifications to keep these wonderful cameras going on into
>the new millennium.

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000
From: "Lawrence Reiss" LReiss@stsi.net
Subject: RE: FTN meter adjustment

ON Mon, 5 Jun 2000 "Don Ferrario" don@ferrario.com wrote:

The Cris adapter is actually a voltage regulator. It drops the alkaline output to match the original mercury. So long as the alkaline is putting out that much or more, the regulator outputs the correct amount.

Well, not quite. The Cris adapter, while effective, is not actually a voltage regulator. Rather it drops the battery voltage by a fixed amount. One of these adapters is required for each px625 being replaced. The adapter works by placing a diode (a Schottky) in series with each new battery. The output curve from an adapted battery will only be as flat as the original battery's curve.

Also, as noted previously on this list, the original mercury type px625 remains somewhat readily available by mail order from a few sources for about $4-$5 apiece.

As to recalibration, it is possible, albeit inconvenient, to simply reset the ASA dial to compensate for the higher voltage of a replacement cell. Though best seen as a short term or interim solution, the output curve of even an alkaline battery is flat enough under the intermittent very light loads imposed by a meter circuit to give usefully consistent readings for quite a while, especially after a short break in period. Given a short break in, alkalines would probably last for at least 20 hours in a camera meter before the output voltage varied by more then ten percent - not fantastic by quite useful in a pinch if you can't get what you really want. Incidently, when new, PX625 mercury cells have an output voltage of about 1.35V which drops by about .1V or so after around 10 hours of use according to test data that I have from Mallory (which used to make them).

Lawrence Reiss

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000
From: John Collier jbcollier@home.com
Subject: [Leica] Adventures with a Fluke meter and a M6TTL, rated G

I have read many posts about the voracious battery appetite of the TTL; and, armed with a Fluke 88 Multimeter, an open mind and that curiosity of all things Leica innate to those on this list, I decided to find out for myself.

The hapless victim is a chrome 0.72 M6TTL serial no. 2472064 and the operation involved using various (and nefarious) methods know to those of you of scientific or farming backgrounds. In order to meet the stringent requirements of our august body, generous amounts of black tape was employed. The results are as follows:

Camera's Observed State // Current Draw

Shutter speed dial set to "off", shutter wound or released and pressure on shutter release or not // 0.00 milli-amperes

Shutter speed dial at any position, meter not activated and shutter wound or released // 0.00 milli-amperes

Shutter speed dial at any position other than "B" and "off", meter activated and shutter wound // 15.68 milliamperes

Shutter speed dial at "B" position, meter activated (no display) and shutter wound // 14.48 milli-amperes

Shutter speed dial at any position but "off", shutter wound, and meter activated but allowed to time out // 0.00 milli-amperes

Shutter speed dial at any position but "off", shutter released and pressure on shutter release // 16.48 milli-amperes

Conclusions

It is fine to leave the camera "on" as long as there is no pressure on the shutter release. If there is pressure on the shutter release and the camera is not "off", the battery will drain down regardless if the shutter is wound or released. If the camera is being carried in a case, it would be prudent to switch it to off; other than that, I would not worry too much. It is very simple to rig up the above tests and if you are having problems with battery consumption, I certainly would advise it before sending the camera back. Leica states that a new battery will give around eight hours of metering time so it would be easy to drain the battery overnight if there was pressure on the shutter release.

Cheers

John Collier

Oh, and I have followed Tom A. 's advice and covered the two small "test" terminals at the base of the battery compartment well with black tape.

[Ed. note: another source for batteries in USA etc. ...]
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000
From: "Mr. Blair Guidry" bguidry@kscable.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Cheap prices for camera batteries

Dear Sir,

Can you please post on your photography pages that CR123A batteries can be purchased from me for $4.99 / pair (Wal-mart charges about $6.49 / each). I will be carrying other camera batteries at super prices very soon. I do also currently sel CR2302 lithium coin cells at $10.00 for a blister of 25 batteries (Wal-mart charges $1.96 for each battery). Contact me with any questions.

Blair

FRom Rollei Mailing LIST:
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000
From: Dirk-Roger Schmitt Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@dlr.de
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 6008 Integral

you wrote:

>Andre,
>Is the charger a "smart" charger, that cuts voltage to trickle levels on
>full charge?
>
>I wonder if Rollei has ever considered dumping the nicads for lithium
>ion rechargables?
>John

These are the summarized charging rules: (Greetings, Dirk)

The rules for NiCads are:

1. Normal charging: Take a tenth in Ampere of the capacity (CA) of say 500 mAh which is 50 mA as charging current. Charging time is CA/Current + 40 %. In this example it comes out to 14 hours charging with 50 mA. From time to time 24 hours charging if the cell has been completely discharged or for very first use is recommended.

2. Quick charging: Take 30 % of CA in Ampere. Charging time is again CA/Current + 40 %. This comes out to about 4.5 hours with 150 mA.

3. Rapid charging: Take 100 % of CA in Ampere. Charging MUST be done using permanent Voltage monitoring. Switch off charging if the Voltage reaches a threshold of 1.52 V per cell at 20 Centigrades. Use temperature compensation for Voltage threshold of -4 mV/Centigrade. Never reach a higher Voltage than 1.55 V per Cell at +10 Centigrades. Use a thermo switch which stops charging at 50 centigrades cell temperature.

4. Permant charging to keep the batteries fresh: Take 3 % of CA in Ampere. For 500 mAh this comes to 15 mA.

The rules for NiMH are:

1. Normal charging as for NiCads

2. Quick charging: Take 20 % of CA for 7 hours

3. Rapid charging: Forbidden

4. Permanent charging as for NiCad

Source of data: Varta battery manuals

From my knowledge the Rollei quick charger for 2000/3003 and the old one for SLX/600X uses charging scheme 3 first, after reaching of the threshold voltage it than switches to 50 mA. I think the new one for 600X (which is an excellent electronically designed part) first uses scheme 3 and than switches to scheme 4. The nice small chargers Rollei delivered with flashes to charge 4 Mignon cells separately work with scheme 2. (All for NiCad)

Look on the printed output current of your charger and you know which scheme is used. Due to the upgrade of the CA of newer cells you must correct their charging time appropriately.

From Pentax Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
From: Gerjan van Oosten a.o.c.n@hetnet.nl
Subject: Re: Spotmatic Batteries (was Re: K mount - Screw adapter )

Kent Gittings wrote:

> Unless it is a Spotmatic F then the voltage made no difference in my tests
> whether it was 1.35v or 1.5v. Pentax put a regulator circuit in so the
> camera electronics don't see more than the required voltage. I'm not totally
> positive about the older ones that used a PX625.

Both Collin and Kent should read old messages more carefully. As I said before, both the Spotmatic and the Spotmatic F will take a silver oxide 1.5 V battery without any problem.

There are NO electronics whatsoever in the light measuring circuit. The ammeter is situated in a so-called 'bridge', which means that the circuit is voltage-independant. You should not apply 15 Volts of course, but 1.5 V instead of 1.35 V is absolutely safe. The Pentax Tech Staff in this country did confirm this. So what you have to do is find a battery that will fit mechanically into the battery compartment. Look for the + and - pole! Please be adviced that the clip-on exposure meters of the H/S-type cameras have a different circuitry, they will not function properly with a 1.5 V battery.

Cheers,

Gerjan

From Caver Diving List:
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000
From: "Ganter, John H" jganter@sandia.gov
To: "'cavers@caversdigest.com'" cavers@caversdigest.com
Subject: Some notes on NiMH batteries

Nickel metal hydrides are starting to replace NiCads in some applications, particularly digital cameras which eat alkalines.

My experience so far, pluses and minuses:

+ Higher capacity than consumer-grade NiCads
+ No memory effect, can be charged without full discharge
+ Good voltage curve compared to alkalines
+ Prices are good and dropping
+ No toxics like NiCads
+ Capacities are still increasing

- Still lag disposable alkalines in capacity (especially Duracell Ultras) but the gap is closing

- The usual rechargeable battery hassles: storing, handling, charging in the field

- Dimensions and shape can be a problem. For example, the MAHA AA's which are supposedly exactly the size of regular AA's still do not work in Vortec headlamps without aluminum foil spacers. Many dive lights, GPS's and other devices are extremely sensitive to battery dimensions. A slight jolt will disconnect most NiMH brands in a Garmin GPS12.

- Chargers are very sensitive to connection quality; charger may think battery is charged when it is not

- Self-discharge at 1-2% per day

- If built into packs, the cells must be carefully matched in resistance for proper charging (like NiCads)

- More sensitive to high shock? Higher capacity cells may have an "ultra thin layer of separator" that makes them more fragile for use and charging under field conditions.

The highest capacity D cells are 9 A-H (AP-9000) at

http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm

MAHA has some really nice chargers that monitor voltage change (negative delta V) to charge NiCads or NiMHs:

http://thomas-distributing.com/nimh_battery_chargers.htm

I have a MAHA C210 CHARGER (very portable) and a MAHA C777 MULTI CHARGER (charges and conditions virtually anything: cell phones, camcorders, Dustbusters, etc.)(Some claim that NiCad memory is a myth, but a couple of cycles on the C777 has brought back many a NiCad pack for me.)

Read the MAHA FAQs carefully to understand how cells and sets of cells can and cannot be charged.

Additions, corrections, etc. welcome.

--John Ganter, ganter@etrademail.com,
http://nerve-net.zocalo.net/jg/c/tech

[Ed. note: Duracell used to make a nifty cross reference to many older cameras, but now out of print - anyone got a copy? ;-)]
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000
From: Naomi_Sibbitt@gillette.com
To: rmonagha@post.smu.edu
Subject: rmonagha@post.smu.edu

Mr. Monaghan:

Thank you for your inquiry and for contacting Duracell.

Unfortunately, we no longer have the cross reference guide listing older cameras/batteries. That guide was not reprinted.

Regards,

N. Sibbitt
Duracell Consumer Service

From ROllei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

> From: jerryleh@pacbell.net
> Reply-To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000
> To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35
>
> Meters can be recalibrated to use alkaline 1.5 volt
> cells, if the technician knows what he is doing.  Don't try to compensate
> yourself, as most meters will exhibit a non-linear response difference.

Unless the technician installs a voltage regulator in the meter there is no way he/she can "recalibrate" such a meter to work correctly with alkaline cells. Their discharge curve is all wrong, so if the meter reads correctly with brand new ones it will get progressively more incorrect in its readings as the cells age.

The only solutions that work are to install a voltage regulator and recalibrate (expensive and rarely practical) or use Weincell replacement cells, which have a discharge curve matching that of the mercury cells.

Bob

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000
From: Marc James Small msmall@roanoke.infi.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

jerryleh@pacbell.net wrote:

>No, mercury cells and batteries are not available legally in
>the US.

Well, nothing prevents someone from SELLING mercury batteries. The rub is that they have to arrange a sure-fire mechanism for ensuring that the batteries, once dead, are not inserted into the trash stream. A "deposit" system was considered by the battery manufacturers but violent lobbying by photo and electronics stores rendered this option DOA.

Marc

msmall@roanoke.infi.net

FroM Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000
From: Marc James Small msmall@roanoke.infi.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

Richard Knoppow wrote:

>  I am not absolutely certian but believe there is a fair amount of mercury
>in flourescent lamps. They seem to stay on the market although I have never
>heard of any recycling program. I think you are right about the law as it
>concerns mercury batteries and there is no doubt about the danger of
>mercury and its compounds in the environment, however, sometimes the law
>can be pretty selective.

Absolutely. There is around 100 times as much mercury in the average flourescent light as in the average PX625 cell. But there are a LOT more users of flourescent lights than of PX625 batteries. Democracy in action? Nah: Bureaucracy recognizing political realities!

Marc

msmall@roanoke.infi.net

From Rollei Mailing LIst;
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000
From: Laurence Cuffe Laurence.Cuffe@ucd.ie
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

...(quoting..)

The law is quite specific in stating how much mercury should leach out of the product under stimulated land fill conditions. Flourescent light manufacturers solve this problem by adding components to the light which make it perform well in these tests. As to the applicability of these tests to real life conditions:- this is a topic they get quite up tight about.

...

From ROllei Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000
From: Mark Bergman mb50742@navix.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

Many camera's have an internal circuit to compensate for a battery's non-linear response to aging. Any camera that uses silver oxide or alkaline batteries for example have to have a circuit to compensate for the battery's declining voltage as it ages. Since mercury cells had a flat voltage response until they died it was cheaper to use a mercury cell and a simple cheap circuit that did not correct for voltage fluctuations in many cameras. Some cameras (I know the Leica MR-4 meter is one) used mercury cells but still had a circuit that compensated for the declining voltage as it aged. If you use a silver oxide battery in these types of circuits the meter will read high (~2/3 stop) but it will be linear. It's very easy to re-calibrate these meter to use a silver oxide battery (hell you can do it with the ISO dial). But a camera that did not use a compensating circuit cannot be re-calibrated to use a silver oxide battery since the calibration will change as the battery ages.

Also the voltage of a new battery (or cell) depends solely on the type, it has nothing to with manufacturing errors. Thus a mercury cell will always be 1.35 vdc.

Mark (a mechanical engineer who Spendt too much time on the dark side - including a stint as an Engineering Manager for Exide).

> jerryleh@pacbell.net writes:
>
>  r
>
>  No, mercury cells and batteries are not available legally in
>  the US.
>
>  Real mercury cells are 1.35 volts until they die. Some sales people are lying
>  to you to make a sale.  Meters can be recalibrated to use alkaline 1.5 volt
>  cells, if the technician knows what he is doing.  Don't try to compensate
>  yourself, as most meters will exhibit a non-linear response difference.
>
>  Of course there are some meters like the Weston Ranger 9 which have
>  5 seperate internal potentiometers which are used to make the corrections.
>
>  Jerry
>   
> Of course a serious meter would have to be recalibrated to use a 1.5v cell.
> But a little on-camera meter like that on the Rollei 35 will remain just as
> useful (or useless, depending on your views on this subject) with 1.5v
> instead of 1.35v--you will never see a difference in your pictures,
> especially color negative types.
> JMcFadden

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

you wrote:

>Roger
>
>No, mercury cells and batteries are not available legally in
>the US.
>
>Real mercury cells are 1.35 volts until they die. Some sales people are lying
>to you to make a sale.  Meters can be recalibrated to use alkaline 1.5 volt
>cells, if the technician knows what he is doing.  Don't try to compensate
>yourself, as most meters will exhibit a non-linear response difference.

It is the constant voltage of Mercury cells which is hard to duplicate. Other types of batteries tend to loose voltage as they age. Where the voltage is not regulated in some way the effect of this is to change the calibration of the meter as the cell ages. So, even if you can make the meter read right for a fresh cell it will be in error soon due to the change in voltage.

It would probably be possible to make a regulator of some sort to fit into meters and cameras designed for Mercury cells such that it would result in a constant 1.35V or some multiple, provided the cell or battery voltage stayed above the regulation point. Considering the number of devises which use Mercury cells or batteries it might be economical.

BTW, Mercury cells and batteries were long used as bias sources in tube type electronic devices where it was desired to conserve the main battery or reduce its voltage requirement.

----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000
From: Gene Johnson genej2@home.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

Allen

I actually saw an article at one time about a device which was installed between the camera and a silver battery, which I assume was some sort of regulator. It was very thin and still allowed the cover to be installed. I've also seen references to the installation of a zener diode in cameras to drop the voltage.

Gene Johnson

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000
From: Hans-Peter.Lammerich@t-online.de
Subject: [Rollei] Batteries for Rollei 35

A sixpack of 675 zinc-air buttons for hearing aids costs the same as a single 625 zinc-air button. The very point is that the 625 size nowadays is special production item for vintage cameras. However, the 675 works fine in my Rollei 35S and Leicaflex SL. Just screw-in the battery cover a little bit deeper.

Hans-Peter

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001
From: Marc James Small msmall@roanoke.infi.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 35 batteries

Brian W Keske wrote:

>Stan, The original 35's took a 1.35v PX625 battery, which is a mercury cell
>and no longer made.

To the contrary, such mercury batteries are still produced in Red China and in Russia.

Marc

msmall@roanoke.infi.net

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001
From: Siu Fai Au S.F.Au@tnw.tudelft.nl
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Rollei 35 batteries

There is a online shop from Hong Kong who's selling these. Here is the link:

http://buttononline.heha.net/HD625pl.htm [server error per link checker 2/2003]

I have not used their service partly because I don't own a Rollei 35 and secondly I still have 2 spare Varta cells for my Canonet.

Other alternative is to use the Zink-air cells which are sold very cheaply at drugstores which are meant for hearing aids. I don't have the type number here but those with the dimension of a LR/SR44 fits in the battery compartment of my Canonet but I need to shim it with a piece of paper for part of the smaller diameter. I think someone at this list mentioned using a rubber O-ring which I think is the prefect solution although the lifetime of the cells may be a bit short.

Siu Fai

From Manual Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001
From: Bill wrainey@hiwaay.net
Subject: Batteries and Electricity [WAS: Re: VC600 + batteries]

Kent Gittings wrote:

> The AH is the current rating of the battery per hour. A real high value
> means they produce a lot of current which can be a problem on some
> equipment. If you use something that produces the same current flow as an
> approved battery type you should be alright.
> Kent Gittings

Hopefully without getting into an argument here, this is simply not true! The mAH or AH rating of any battery is it's CAPACITY rating based upon how much power it can deliver in one hour, not how much current it produces! You could have a battery with a high capacity, but only able to deliver a small amount of current at any one time (alkaline batteries fall into this category). On the other hand you could have a battery that has a fairly low capacity rating, but is able to dump nearly all of that power in only a few seconds producing a very HIGH current (NiCds fall into this category). The current flow from any battery is determined by the load put on it by the device it is powering, and the current *limit* is determined by the battery itself and how quickly it can deliver that power!

My favorite analogy to this whole principle involves water... please read on.

First some quick parallels between water and electricity --

Capacity = amount of water the container will hold
Current = how much water is flowing from the container
Voltage = pressure applied to the water in the container

Now on to the example --

You have two buckets of water. One is 10 gallons in capacity and the other is 20 gallons in capacity. The 10 gallon bucket has a 1" pipe connected to a valve on the bottom of it, and the 20 gallon bucket has a 1/2" pipe connected to a valve on the bottom of it. Since neither container of water is pressurized, and both are using gravity only to provide water flow, we can assume that both are at the same fairly low voltage.

Now the 20 gallon bucket obviously has a significantly greater capacity (alkaline battery), but due to the smaller diameter of the pipe attached will not be able to deliver the water flow rate of the 10 gallon bucket with a 1" pipe attached (NiCd battery). If we were to slightly pressurized the larger bucket (since alkaline batteries are 1.5V vs 1.2V for NiCds), you would get a faster water flow from the bucket, BUT it still wouldn't be as great as the smaller bucket with the larger pipe!

Between these two, if you have a device that needs a lot of water RIGHT NOW, then you want to use the smaller bucket (NiCd) with the larger pipe. But if you have something that sips water only and doesn't have a high demand (like a TV remote control), then the larger bucket (alkaline) is preferable since you'll never ask for more water than it can deliver at any one time!

Since NiMh batteries are becoming more and more common now, lets throw one of those into the mix... We add another bucket with 20 gallon capacity, but this time we put a 3/4" pipe on it instead of the 1/2" pipe earlier. Now we have a bucket that can deliver a higher water flow rate AND do so for a longer period of time too!

Just remember, alkaline batteries have a large capacity (big bucket), BUT they have a small pipe coming out of them and can only deliver their energy (water) at a relatively low current (flow rate), despite the fact that they have a higher voltage (water pressure) than the NiCd battery.

NiCd batteries typically have a lower capacity (smaller bucket) than the equivalent physical size alkaline, but they have a big pipe coming out of them and can dump a large amount of energy (water) at a high current (water flow), but will do so for a much shorter period of time!

NiMh batteries have a larger capacity than the equivalent sized NiCd, much closer to the alkaline battery, and they have a current capacity (water pipe) somewhere between the other two. They can dump power much faster than the alkaline battery, yet still have a total capacity close to the alkaline, therefore are excellent for use in high drain devices like flash units, digital cameras, etc.

The downside to the NiCd and the NiMh battery is both of their buckets have holes in them and leak all of their water out, whether you use it or not! So if you have a device you want to leave batteries in, but don't use very frequently, then you better keep alkalines in it and just give up the extra current capacity in exchange for knowing the charge is there when you need it.

Sorry for the LOOOOONNNNNGGGG post, but it's the only way to explain this concept that I know of!

Later,

--
Bill Rainey
wrainey@hiwaay.net
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~wrainey/ (Bill's Homepage)

From Manual Nikon Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001
From: mlipphardt@ameritech.net
Subject: Batteries and Electricity [WAS: Re: VC600 + batteries]

Ampere/Hour;

A system capable of delivering any of the following can be considered a 1 ampere/hour system;

1 amp for 1 hour = 1 ampere hour.
1/2 amp for 2 hours = 1 ampere/hour
2 amps for 1/2 hour = 1 ampere/hour

Ampere hours are roughly analogous to charge capacity, in that 1 farad = 1 amp for 1 second to give you 1 volt.

Ampere hours have nothing to do with maximum delivery rates, just the amount of current that are finally able to supply until, in the case of batteries, they are considered discharged. With a one ampere/hour battery, the battery should, assuming it's internal resistance allows it, be able to maintain a constant current of 1 amp until it reaches discharge, which is considered usually to be a terminal voltage of about 1.2 volts under the load being driven.

A battery capable of driving the above should be able to drive a 1/2 amp load for two hours until discharge. It is STILL a 1 ampere/hour system.

Mike

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001
From: Alex Hurst corkflor@iol.ie
Subject: Re: Cleaning battery contacts

Floyd wrote:

>A quick tip for the discussion RE cleaning battery contacts - one of the
>best tools ever made for cleaning electrical contacts is U.S. paper money.
>The rough silk-fiber-permeated paper is great for scouring oxidation without
>scratching up the contacts.

Great tip. Wonder whether Irish punts work as well.

BTW, do USD100 bills work better than USD1 bills.... :-)

Best

Alex

From Rollei Mailing LIst:
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001
From: bigler@ens2m.fr
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Mercury batteries -- replacement

from Nathan :

Mercury batteries :

> ...I suggest that you look at the substitute solutions...

There is a do-it-yourself substitution solution proposed by the Dutch Rollei Club :

http://www.rolleiclub.nl/PX625vervanger.html

The text is in dutch but the pictures are self-explanatory.

Thanks to Ferdi who put a link to this DIY page in his web site.

--
Emmanuel BIGLER
bigler@ens2m.fr

[Ed. note: Thanks to Arthur for sharing this URL and tip!]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001
From: Arthur Maravelis artm@who.net
To: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Re: link update

Robert,

Well, I sure could have used that list myself. I have used Kodak's site info:

http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/global/en/consumer/products/batteries/batteryGuide.pl

They have an extensive listing, albeit butchered by their current "replacement" cells. It's pretty thorough though and could be useful to you.

Art

From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001
From: ajit1 ajit1@home.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Mercury batteries -- replacement

I have been in touch with Mr. de Gruijter, the author of the do-it-yourself substitution on the Dutch Rollei Club website

http://www.rolleiclub.nl/PX625vervanger.html

who tells me that he is going to have an English translation up, in about a week or so.

Ajit

....

From Rangefinder Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001
From: Herbert J hjm3@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [RF List] Konica S2 Question & Mercury cells in general

After posting here and doing a lot of looking I found this link for mecury batteries. I am going to order some this week and hopfully they are the real thing. The link is for a company in Hong Kong I think.

was at http://buttononline.heha.net (now reports as server error)

Has anyone bought from here?

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001
From: "Michael B. Levy" yvel@adelphia.net
Subject: [Rollei] Re: [Rollei 35 SE battery

You might try:

http://www.photobattery.com/

I've been buying batteries from this fellow for awhile and he may have the originals....

response is fast and website has detailed info you need.

Levy

From Contax Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [CONTAX] OT: Anyone used this HD 625 battery adapter? (Bob Shell perhaps?)

Sekonic doesn't make such a thing. Gossen did, but I was under the impression that they had stopped making them due to problems they caused. The discharge curve of the silver cells is wrong and the meter accuracy declines as the cells age.

So far as I know a voltage regulator, like the CRIS unit, or Weincells are the only things that really work.

When we were developing the Weincells (I'm the co-inventor) we originally prototyped some voltage regulators for use with lithium cells. The problem was that they were just too darned expensive even though they worked great. I have some of the protoypes in some of my old cameras.

The Weincell is a compromise. It works just like mercury cells, but has a much shorter life. We modified the electrolyte to match the discharge curve of mercury cells and made the air holes smaller to lengthen life, so they do work better than generic zinc air cells. They last much longer in humid climates. What kills them is evaporation of water from the gel electrolyte inside, so keeping them moderately humid is essential for long life.

Bob

....

From Leica Topica Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001
From: "Craig Roberts" croberts@zoomtel.com
Subject: DIY battery adaptor instructions

Hey y'all -

A couple of weeks ago I mentioned a Dutch Rollei Club Web page with DIY instructions for a C.R.I.S.-type adaptor to replace hard-to-obtain PX625 Mercury batteries with readily available silver oxide types. At the time, instructions were published in Dutch only. Well, now they've been translated into English:

http://www.rolleiclub.nl/PX625replacement.html

This may be useful and fun for folks with early Leicaflexes and MR meters, as well as owners of a "brand X" camera like a Nikkormat FTn, Canon F-1, Olympus OM-1, etc.

Craig
Boston

From Classic 35mm RF Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001
From: winfried_bue clubs-mail@yahoo-inc.com
Subject: Re: Minolta Himatic E Info Needed [Yahoo! Clubs: Classic 35mm Compacts]

Answer to 3.

You can use PX625 on ANY camera that needs PX640 cells. Both cells have same diameter and voltage, but the PX640 are higher. You can insert the PX625 into the battery chamber(s) for the PX640, and fill up extra space with a metal nut or a pressure spring from the hardware store.

Winfried (currently using this method on his Hi-Matic F)

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Collin Brendemuehl dpcwilbur@my-deja.com
Date: Mon May 28 21:25:09 CDT 2001
Subject: Re: Pentax Spotmatic Battery

Because the Pentax bodies use a bridge circuit they are voltage insensitive. That means you can use the new 1.5v 625 batteries that fit the same location, and not have any exposure problems.

Collin

PeterH2072 wrote:

> Would anyone have a suggestion  for  a modern battery for a Pentax  Spotmatic?
> The cell that's in the camera is marked '400' ... and I assume it's a  mercury
> cell. Are there silver oxide or alkaline batteries that'll work in this
> applicaton?
>
> TIA
>
> Peter

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Collin Brendemuehl dpcwilbur@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Pentax Spotmatic Battery Date: Tue May 29 06:38:35 CDT 2001

In the same way, in by Canon G-III QL17 rangefinder, which uses the same battery #625, I use the 675 hearing aid battery. It is the Zinc-air, but sells in inexpensive 4-packs. Just add a washer around it and you've got 1.4v for those cameras that are voltage-sensitive. That's all the Wein Cell is.

Collin

doregan@attglobal.net wrote:

> True. The silver and alkaline batteries work fine. The meter needle
> moves a little more quickly. For a substitute for the #400 battery I
> believe I use a #312 Zinc/air.
>
> Collin Brendemuehl wrote:
> >
> > Because the Pentax bodies use a bridge circuit they are
> > voltage insensitive.  That means you can use the new
> > 1.5v 625 batteries that fit the same location, and not
> > have any exposure problems.
> >
> > Collin

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Bill Tuthill ca_creekin@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jun 05 11:23:08 CDT 2001
Subject: Inexpensive source for batteries

Just read this morning on the Minolta mailing list about Sunn Batteries in Jacksonville FL, where they sell CR123 batteries for $2 each or $22 a dozen, about 1/4 what my local drugstore sells them for. Sunn also sells many other types of batteries, including NiMH and rechargers.

http://www.sunnbattery.com

[Ed. note: about yashicamat 124 metering...]
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001
From Rangefinder Mailing List;
From: "David Foy" dfoy@marketactics.com
Subject: RE: [RF List] OT (Rolleicords)

Its body-mounted CdS meter was designed for a 1.35 volt mercury battery, no longer sold. If you substitute an alkaline battery, its higher voltage and steep discharge curve will make the meter inaccurate in an unpredictable way -- measuring too high early on, then progressively lower and lower until it dies. If you substitute a silver-oxide battery, it will have the same flat discharge curve as the mercury battery, and will measure a consistent one stop too high. That is, if the real exposure is f11, the meter will show it as f16. Simply adjust the ASA setting to compensate.

David Foy

From Rangefinder Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001
From: Ray Reese sandbasser@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Yashica Electro battery cover

Glenn -

You can buy Alkaline 'replacements' for the 640 Mercury battery from quite a few sites on the web (I personally have used www.photobattery.com but I'm sure there must be others).

Or, since the 640's cost about $10 per pair, you might want to try what I do... I get a PX32A battery (which are much more readily available and "only" costs about $12) and carefully cut the cover off and inside you will find 4 640 batteries.

Be very careful, the last PX32A I disassembled had the individual 640 cells 'spot welded' together with narrow, thin metal strips or ribbons. Watch for sharp edges and don't rupture the metal housing of the individual cells or you could get chemicals on your hands, in your eyes, on your tools or work surface and most importantly inside your valuable GX.

BTW... I didn't originate this tip; I found it somewhere on the web; but I use it quite often since I have 4 cameras (2 GX's and 2 Hi-Matic E's) that use the 640 batteries.

Finally, as for the difference in the voltages of the Alkaline batteries (1.5v) vs the Mercury batteries (1.35v); various people on the web recommend adjusting the asa speed to compensate. I find that too much trouble, and since I only shoot color negative film (not slides) I have found that the wide exposure latitude of the color print film gives me very good (if not perfect) exposures. But, your mileage may vary.

Regards,
Ray Reese

...

From Camera Fixing Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001
From: Kelvin kelvinlee@pacific.net.sg
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [camera-fix] Fw: [PUGW] Electric Parkticas

For info.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian McRae" ian.mcrae@tesco.net
To: "Users Group Praktica" pugw@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001
Subject: [PUGW] Electric Parkticas

I have some good news for those of you who have electric Prakticas and are having difficulty getting PX21 batteries. Gejza Dunay in the Slovak Republic ("cupog" on eBay) is manufacturing adapters so that other batteries can be used in your electric Prakticas. I don't know what they are like yet, as I have just ordered one. I'll let you know when I get back from the sea, as it should have arrived well before then. He charges $10 for them, which seems a good deal seeing as PX21 batteries, when you can find them, seem to be priced at about Ł7.50 plus postage in the UK.

Enquiries to Gejza at hadesia@napri.sk #

Orra Best,

Ian

From Speleonics Mailing List
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001
From: Wookey wookey@aleph1.co.uk
To: speleonics speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: RE: Alkaline cells

Garry Petrie wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-speleonics@altadena.net
> > Subject: Re: Alkaline cells
> >
> > Batteries deliever more power to the load at lower currents; all other
> > things being equal. In other words, four C cells will have a higher
> > terminal voltage at 2 hours of 200 milliampere load  than at 1 hour of
> > 400 mil load. Forget AA cells for lighting. OK for emergency backup,  but
> > not for the big event.
>
> Quite the opposite. Eight AA cells will easily provide over 20 hours of
> light with a draw of 1 watt. Two D cells theorically have about 50% more
> watt-hours than eight AA cells. The 2D vs 8AA is a fair weight/size
> comparison, not by cost. As you note, the current draw from an  individual
> cell of the eight will be one-quarter of that from one of a pair of D
> cells, and compare favorably in service life. See the "Service Hours vs
> Power Drain" graphs on
>
> http://www.duracell.com/OEM/Primary/Alkaline/mx1300pc.html
> http://www.duracell.com/OEM/Primary/Alkaline/mx1500pc.html
>
> and properly select the vertical line corresponding to the draw on a per
> cell basis. Scale back for recharagables.

If you look at the specs for cells (alklaine and nicad/nimh you will fine significantly better power/weight*size values in AA cells and other small sizes than in larger cells (in general). This is because of market pressures - everyone wants small powerful batteries for their tiny phones etc. very few people care that the 7Ah nicad F-cell hasn't improved in ~15 years.

When discussing battery losses it is important to distinguish between alkalines and nicads/nimhs as the current-loss characteristic is very different. Alkalines can triple their capacities if you draw low enough currents. For Ni** cells it doesn't make much difference until you get up to discharge rates over about C.

In practice this means that the optimum power/size*weight with alkalines is obtained by paralleling large numbers of AA cells (as Garry points out), thus minimising individual cell currents and sucking out as much power as possible down to ~0.6V per cell. (If powering a resisitive load like a light bulb you can get 99% (step-down) conversion efficiency using a Willie Hunt LVR).

For nicads this approach still makes some sense but that gains are much less significant. It's usually better to just pick the best cells with the right capacity for the application. Only if you get into really high current drains (eg for powering drills - discharge at 2C or more) do you need to care much about internal cell losses (which can waste up to half your power if you use too-small cells). Nicads are significantly better than NiMH and alkaline are effectively useless for this application. Short fat cells are better than long thin ones.

If this subject interests you you will find enormously detailed discussion of it on the bikecurrent mailing list at topica.com

Wookey
--
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001
From: Victor Helis heli@inbox.ru
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [camera-fix] Replacement of batteries very cheapy and angry ; -)

...

Replacement of batteries this first, that I do at check of the camera brought in repair.

Concerning batteries to Zeniths and Prakticas I can advise instead of PX625 (=RC-53 - russian equivalent, used in Zenit TTL or -12SD) to apply tablets AG-13 or LR-44. For Praktica MTL5b I turn 4 tablets and metal nut of a suitable diameter of height 3,5-5 mm, that length of a battery in the sum has made 25 mm, with a strip of a thin paper of width 23-24 mm and length 150-200 mm like a cartridge. It is quite possible to replace 6 Volt silver-oxide battery like GP 476A and similar.

In Zenit also I centre a tablet ( LR44 has smaller diameter than PX625= RC-53) by a strip of a cardboard of width 5 mm. Very cheapy and angry ; -)

Sincerely

Victor Helis, heli@inbox.ru
Togliatti, Russia

From Leica Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001
From: John W Lee jwlee01@alumni.poly.edu
Subject: [Leica] Anyone for PX625 cells?

Dear Fellow LUGgers;

I received in the mail recently the July 2001 product/price list from Heitz Service Corp. in an envelope that was postmarked Aug. 4, 2001. They have PX625 mercury cells for 5 bucks each (US$5.00).

                Heitz Service Corp.
                34-11 62nd Street
                Woodside, NY 11377
                Tel: 718.565.0004
                Fax: 718.565.2582
              E-mail: karlheitz@compuserve.com

Regards,
John

From Rangefinder Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 
From: Ron Schwarz <rs@clubvb.com>
Subject: RE: [RF List] Mercury Battery substitute


> The PC640 (also known as the EPX640) are alkaline battery replacements for
>the PX640 mercury cells, which several Yashicas take. They should be readily
>available at local photo shops or Radio Shack, but can get kind of pricey
>(~$11.00 each at my local shop). The guy who mentioned that the PX32A was
>comprised of 4 PC640s was noting that taking a PX32 apart was half as
>expensive as buying four PC640s. I'd advise against tearing apart batteries
>if I were you; electrolyte in your eye isn't worth the 5 buck savings.

I've been doing that for years with a variety of batteries. Once I peel off
the metal outer layer, I find a cardboard tube that contains a few
(generally two or four) standard cells (complete with the *same* markings I
see when I buy them individually). At the ends, there are a few spacers
(flat metal wave spacer, plastic rings, etc.) that I toss in the garbage
with the metal and cardboard from the wrapper. 

From: Rollei@davidmorton.org
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Rollei 35S. Exposure meter.
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 

JOSE ROYO writes:

"I'll search for a PX625-1,35V. Is it easy to find? If not, any advice?"

Jose

This is a company in England that can still supply PX625 mercury cells:

http://www.pcs-chromex-batteries.com/batts.htm

I bought ten from them recently, and they seem very efficient.

-- 
David Morton
dmorton@journalist.co.uk


Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 35S. Exposure meter.
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com>
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>

> From: Rich Lahrson tripspud@transbay.net>
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 
> To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei 35S. Exposure meter.
> 
> 
> I don't have the Rollei 35, but I put a Wein Cell in an Olympus OM-1n
> last Febuary and it's still going, eight months.  I read about their life
> span as being 6 months.  I don't use the camera, but to check the battery.

We say six months as an average life.  It all depends on temperature and
humidity.  When you activate a Weincell by pulling off the tab, you are
letting air inside which activates the gel electrolyte.  When the gel dries
up, the cell dies.  In a humid and cool climate this takes much longer, and
sometimes people get a couple of years out of the cells.  In a hot and dry
place the lifespan will be much shorter.  The best thing to do is save the
adhesive tab and stick it back on the cell when you don't plan to use the
camera for a while. Pull it off again about a half hour prior to using.

Bob


To: "Robert Weis" rweis@hotmail.com>
From: Rodriguez mikey@mangonet.com>
Subject: Re: [cavers] gel cells
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 
Robert Weis wrote:

>Is it better to regularly (weekly,  monthly, semi annually ?) vs never 
>discharge (down to 25% or less) a gel cell type battery (12 volt) to 
>optimize its longevity.  The recharging system is computer controlled and 
>will not overcharge the cell during its "trickle charge" maintenance period.

Gel cell batteries, like all lead-acid batteries, should never be
"cycled".  Deep discharging them damages them.  Some tolerate deep
discharging better than others, but they all sustain cumulative
damage each time.

-Mike Rodriguez
mikey@mikey.net>
http://www.mikey.net/scuba

From: "Peter Klosky" peter.klosky@marcgs.com>
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net>
Subject: Re: [HUG] Re: Comments about Kiev 45 degree prism/meter?
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 
Bob,

Here's a URL for $1.90 batteries, and a cross reference.
http://www.dialabattery.com/32-33htm.htm
AG13 / G13 / LR44 / 357 / SR44 / A76 Alkaline Battery

Special Offer! 10,000 pieces delivered worldwide!


      AG13 (10,000)
     Alkaline
     $999.00


----- Original Message -----

From: "Peter Klosky" peter.klosky@marcgs.com>
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 
Subject: Re: [HUG] Re: Comments about Kiev 45 degree prism/meter?


> Bob,
>
> Mine has a loose stack of three, each labeled: "AG 13 Button Cell"  They are .454" diameter, .210" tall.
>
> Peter
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Keene/Karen Shehade" kabob3@mediaone.net>
> To: "hassydigest" hasselblad@kelvin.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 
> Subject: [HUG] Re: Comments about Kiev 45 degree prism/meter?
>
>
> > Hi all-
> >
> > What batteries do these take? I've had one for awhile, but never have used
> > it as I never got around to getting batteries. Mainly use a PM45.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob Keene
> > Keene Vision Photography
> > "Creating Visions That Last A Lifetime"
> > 781/449-2536
> > www.keenevision.com
> >


From: George Stocking gwrhino@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: battery Bronica
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 

Your problem is most likely the type of battery. The PX28L is the Lithium, if I
remember correctly. You should switch to the Silver Oxide, and you will get
quite a bit more life. The Lithium in my GS-1 will last maybe 2 rolls
(20exposures maximum). The silver oxide will go 100+ rolls (much more usually.)
Bronica expressly discourages the use of the Lithium.........

http://www.georgestocking.com

David D wrote:

> I notice my little PX-28L battery drains all it juice after only 2 days. I
> put a new one in ans shott a wedding. Next day the battery is dead. I use
> the metered prism (I'm guessing it's the first one) and leave the prism
> connected. Do you all think it's the prism that drains me? OR is there an
> on/off switch on this camera. NO I don't have a manual(that's I'm asking for
> help). I see some people claim the default shutter speed on this camera is
> 1/500. Then how come my flash pics with my 283 Vivitar look so well exposed?
> I metered for 1/60 because I thought that was the default speed. Any
> opinions??
> sun622@prodigy.net(DAVID)


From: "dr bob" rsmith@dmv.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mercury battery cleanup
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 

Disclaimer:  The following advice is worth every cent you paid.  If you
have a problem working with chemicals in general and mercury compounds
specifically, then ignore this post and get professional help (with the
camera).

     You have undoubtedly identified the cell as a mercury type.  It is a
little unusual for these cells to leak excessively but I have experienced it
(in a Zeiss-Ikon Contarex).  First the Hg compounds in one of these cells is
usually quite small.  The corrosion products created by electrolyte leakage
in a camera sometimes appear worse than it is in reality.  If you exhibit
the handling care you would use in cleaning up after any "regular" battery
spill, you should be safe.

    The best solution (pun) is to use distilled water and cotton swabs
("Q-Tips"), available at all super markets.  Tilt your apparatus (use
gravity) to prevent excess water from running back into the chamber and then
elsewhere into more vital locations. Use as little water as possible and
swab with a dry swab immediately.  Do not reuse any swabs.  When the
corrosion products disappear, dry the pocket with a hair dryer or whatever
then do it all again.  When it looks clean, do it one more time.  This may
require three or four operations.  Finally you may want to apply a _very_
light coating of petroleum jelly on the contacts.  This seems to occlude
moisture (condensation) and slow or prevent further corrosion.

     Never reuse the swabs or any other wipes et c.  Isolate these materials
in a plastic zip-lok "baggy" and dispose "normally" (use your best
judgment).  Treat these contaminated materials the same as you would any
other corrosive and poisonous battery electrolyte.  Materials in alkaline
and acid batteries can be just as dangerous as mercury batteries.  If you
performed this operation six times a day for three or more years you might
develop problems.

     The following should be used whenever handling _any_ chemicals,
photographic, battery, or especially household(!):

          Don't eat them;  wash hands often
          Don't wear them;  wash contaminated cloths (shoes?) as soon as possible
          Don't consume food or drink while working with chemicals
         Use judgment in handling _all_ chemicals -always.
dr bob

"Mike Schuler" schuler@drizzle.com> wrote 
> I just found a long-unused camera at work and found out that it
> contains a leaking mercury battery.  Proper disposal of the battery
> shouldn't be a problem, but I'm wondering about cleaning up the
> battery compartment.  Any suggestions?  I'd prefer not to poison
> myself...



From: "skgrimes" skgrimes@ma.ultranet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mercury battery cleanup
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 

As a repairman I see this type of problem regularly. I find that wetting a
Q-tip with a little lens cleaner and gently cleaning the battery compartment
works fine most of the time. The moisture will also prevent the powdery
residue from becoming airborne and can be disposed of by putting the used
swabs in a small plastic bag for disposal. If the metal parts of the battery
compartment are corroded you can use a mild acidic cleaner like naval jelly
or even Coke, though you want to use just  enough to wet the Q-tip and apply
it directly to the area to be cleaned. Allow several minutes for it to work.
While it is working you should see a slight bubbling action as it eats away
at the corrosion, after which you should remove any residue by cleaning the
area with another Q-tip and clean, plain water. As a last step, lightly
burnishing the battery holder and contacts with a small eraser such as you
find on a pencil or some pens will remove any film that might remain.

Unfortunately, the land on the other side of the battery contact and the
connecting wire are often also damaged and if so, usually need to be
replaced. I hope these suggestion prove helpful and good luck. Pierre T.
--
          S.K. GRIMES  --  MACHINE WORK FOR PHOTOGRAPHERS
          153 Hamlet Ave. (5th floor) Woonsocket RI, 02895

             +  Lenses mounted into shutters.
             +  Shutters repaired, restored.
             +  For more info--  http://www.skgrimes.com.
                     (updated 8-1-01 Site Map)
               Now:  flat and pointed tip Spanner Wrenches
                  http://www.skgrimes.com/span/index.htm

"Mike Schuler" schuler@drizzle.com> wrote 
> I just found a long-unused camera at work and found out that it
> contains a leaking mercury battery.  Proper disposal of the battery
> shouldn't be a problem, but I'm wondering about cleaning up the
> battery compartment.  Any suggestions?  I'd prefer not to poison
> myself...



Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
From: Dirk-Roger Schmitt Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@dlr.de>
Subject: Re: [Rollei]  Ni Me Hy Batteries on 3003, additinal comment

Additional comment: You cannot use Alkalines for the same problem the 
lithiums have: Too high internal resistance. Alkalines are only for 
emergency, but after short time they will not drive the camera anymore.



I cannot second this.

You can use NiCds with higher capacity as well as Nickel Metal Hydride 
batteries.

However, you must NOT charge the NiMHs in the Rollei quick charger. They 
will be destroyed. If  you use other NiCds, you must check whether they are 
approved for fast charge, i.e. charge with at least 500 mA. This is the 
charge current , maybe also a little bit more , the quick charger is using.

The most important thing for the 2000/3003 batterie use is not the capacity 
of the batteries, but the internal resistans. If the internal resistance is 
took high, they may not deliver enough current the motor of the camera 
needs. So it is more important for good performance to look to the current 
a batterry can supply (even at low temperatures) than looking to its capacity.
 From m knowledge, Rollei used Sanyo NiCd 600 mAh batteries for the battery 
packs because they found out that those batteries gave a good performance. 
However, products are changing and other brands could be taken into 
consideration, too.
I personnally made extremely bad experience with Varta NiCd batteries. The 
huge amount of the batteries I bought from them and I needed to discard 
half a year or one year later must have subsidized the whole company. I now 
switched to Panasonic and  Sanyo with good exerience.

If you use lithium batteries with 1,5 V, you cannot damage anything. 
However, their use maybe limited because they cannot deliver enough 
current. I made tests a couple of years ago and found out that those I had 
did have had a too high internal resistance. Maybe the newer batteries have 
been improved, but I do doubt this.


Dirk

you wrote:
> > I would be intersted in the INFO on using regular lithium batteries to 
> power
> > the Rollei 3003camera.
> >
> > Can I use also Nickel Metal Hydride AA bateries. They come in various
> > versions of 1.2v and 1300-1600mAh. Which are correct to use with Rollei
> > 3003?
>The answer is no, you should not use NiMH batteries in the 3003, 3001 or 
>SL2000F. In anticipation of your next question, you shouldn't use "high 
>capacity" Ni-Cd's either, or alkalines.
>The only batteries which are compatible with these cameras are regular 
>Ni-Cd's rated at 600 mAh or so.
>This information was given to me by Rollei staff.
>
>As it happens, 600mAh NiCd's are quite cheap, and the camera even sounds 
>happier with them.
>
>Bernard


From: "Scott Gardner" jantamrac@att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: MS 76 and pX 13 Camera  Batteries.
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 

Sam, try:

http://www.photobattery.com/

for the both and

http://www.usedphoto.com/

for the silver only.

hth/Scott Gardner


--
Thanks for your time and reply./Scott Gardner
Sam Welch sam.w1@home.com> wrote 
> Are these available for sale anywhere.
> Thanks. Sam Welch  ?
>
>


To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com>
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Re-calibration/repair of Luna-Pro Meter

Hi Fred,

I'm the inventor of the Weincell.  Stan Weinberg put up the money, so he got
his name on it!!  This is the first I've ever heard of a Luna Pro reading
incorrectly with our cells.  How does the needle go when you use the battery
check switch?  If the cells were too hot, the meter needle would go up past
the upper limit on the batter check.

Let me know.  

Bob

> From: fredarose@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 
> To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [camera-fix] Re-calibration/repair of Luna-Pro Meter
> 
> Has anyone out there have any idea how to adjust a Luna-Pro light meter?
> Mine shows about 1/4" high when doing a battery check with the Wein air
> cells.  Since my Nikon won't read correctly with the Wein cells either, I am
> in a spot!


To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
From: fredarose@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Luna Pro Calibration

I just looked up the IV characteristics for the diodes recommended (1N5711 or 
1N6263 or BAT81 or BAT83) at the WEB site that tells you how to make your own 
adapter (http://www.rolleiclub.nl/PX625replacement.html).

The data I pulled from the plots indicates you get a 0.2 volt drop with a 10 
microamp current draw, 0.3 volt drop with a 100 microamp draw and 0.4 volts 
with 1 mA draw.

Using this with a 1.5 volt silver battery you will not get 1.35 volts!

Regards,
Fred


From: "Ajit Cheema" ajit1@home.com>
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Mercury Battery
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 

Jerry and PK,

I have been using my two Electro 35s for years on PX28 cells. Just jury rig
the battery compartment with foil and a spring to make sure the battery
contacts of the camera contact the battery terminals. The Electro 35s
function well in the 4.6V to 6.3V range, without any modification, I am
told. I have not shot any slides with them, though. FWIW...

By the way, Peter, the translation of the PX625 article is up at
www.rolleiclub.nl/PX625replacement.html  .

AJ


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Lehrer" jerryleh@pacbell.net>
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT: Mercury Battery


> PK
>
> I gave away a Yashica Electro a few months ago
> for that reason.  If you find a source, please let me
> know. I might be able to get it back.
>
> Jerry
>
> Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter) wrote:
>
> > Its fits a Yashica rangefinder.



To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
From: Ron Schwarz rs@clubvb.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Mercury-free replacement batteries

you wrote:
> Carl Demuynck wrote:
>
>> I remember some discussions in the groups about the problem to find 1.35 V
>> batteries (PX625, PX13 RM400R, V400PX and PX675) for several camera
brands and
>> types. There exists a mercury-free alternative with the correct voltage:
>> WeinCell zinc/air batteries. They are distributed by Micro-Tools (US and
>> Germany). More info on www.weincell.com and www.microtools.com.
>> Maybe a lot of you knew this already.
>> 
>There is another alternative, which adapts a standard silver 76 cell to the
>proper voltage to replace the PX13 and PX625 cells: the MR-9  adapter from
>C.R.I.S. Camera Services at: http://www.criscam.com/>

Another alternative is to install a Schottky diode in the camera, they cost
about fifty cents, and are the "guts" of the adapter.  (The adapter is
basically a hollowed-out 625 body with a diode in it. There is a website in
Germany or Switzerland that shows you step by step how to build an adapter
out of a diode and a dead alkaline 625 cell.)


To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com>
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Re: Life expectancy of Wein Cells? ER...Shell Cells!

The answer is.....it depends.  What kills them is the drying out of the
electrolyte gel inside.  Obviously this happens faster in arid climates, and
more slowly in humid ones.  So much depends on where you are, and you didn't
say in your note.  I'm in Virginia where it is generally moderate in
humidity all year.  I get over a year in most of my test samples, but have a
pair in my old Luna Pro which are going on four years now and still working.

Always put the sticky tab back on the cells when you know you won't use them
for extended periods and you can greatly extend the life.  Allow about half
an hour after pulling off the tab before use.

Bob

> From: Mike Steele ganderfive@yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001
> To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [camera-fix] Re: Life expectancy of Wein Cells? ER...Shell Cells!
> 
> Hi everyone, 
> Does anyone know the life expectancy (average) of Wein
> Cells? I've had a couple at least 12 months, with at
> least weekly use. They still seem to go going strong!
> Is it easy to tell when it's time to give them a
> decent burial? Thanks! Mike Steele


To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
From: fredarose@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Mercury-free replacement batteries

These Schottky diodes do not drop a constant voltage to give you a nice 1.35 
volts.  The drop depends on how much current is being drawn and some meters 
require different current depending on the settings of the camera.  Nikon 
FTns have a large change in current and the voltage drop will change alot.

I did a google search on the diode part number that was given on one of the 
DYI adapter sites and found this information.

I have had problems with the Wein cells and the ones I bought had nearly 1.5 
volts each and would not give the correct battery check or exposure readings 
in my Luna-Pro meter.

Good luck finding a 1.35 volt replacement!

Regards,
Fred

To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
From: fredarose@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Mercury-free replacement batteries

Just did a quick check and found...

http://members.aol.com/drwyn/myhomepage/webdoc4.htm

Which explanes the problem with CRIS adapters.

To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
From: rolohar@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Mercury-free replacement batteries


fredarose@aol.com writes:
> These Schottky diodes do not drop a constant voltage to give you a nice 1.35 
>  volts.  The drop depends on how much current is being drawn and some meters 
>  require different current depending on the settings of the camera. 

I'm quite sure that this is a true statement. The V/I characteristic curves 
of these diodes show that they are dynamic devices, and that the voltage drop 
across the diode with be a function of how much current it passes. As a point 
of fact, most Shottkey diode specifications give a VF at a specific current 
application. Change the current through the diode and the VF (voltage drop in 
the foward direction) changes.

Most light meters can be recalibrated to be accurate with the readily 
available silver cells which have a long operating life and are not very 
expensive.

I regularly use silver or alkaline cells in all my cameras because I usually 
shoot C41 color print film which has a very wide exposure latitude, so being 
off by a stop or two still yields perfectly acceptable prints. Serious B&W; 
work is a different story, although B&W; films also have some exposure 
latitude. And if you are doing serious professional work, you should have 
your meters professionally calibrated on a regular periodic basis.

Roland F. Harriston

From: "Mxsmanic" mxsmanic@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Photo assignment disasters
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:16:58 GMT

"Bob Fowler" saxman@superlink.net> wrote 

> I didn't even GET to the shoot before I
> thought my leg was going to burst into
> flames!  NEVER AGAIN...

Be glad that it was not a lithium battery, or it might have blown your
leg off.

Lithium batteries--unlike other types of batteries--are capable of
discharging _all_ of their stored energy almost instantly (in
milliseconds, in some cases) if they are short-circuited.  Most consumer
lithium batteries have current-limited devices incorporated into the
batteries to prevent this, but some professional batteries do not (some
applications require this characteristic), and certain designs will
literally explode if shorted out.

This is why many types of lithium batteries are not allowed aboard
aircraft.  The consumer types are usually safe, however, because they
have current-limiting devices built in.

This is also why lithium batteries are so useful for modern cameras,
especially digital cameras, and for flashes: they can service extremely
heavy short term loads, unlike other kinds of batteries that cannot
deliver high currents when required.  And this is why there have been
problems of lithium batteries overheating in some digital cameras that
were exceedingly hungry for current when taking pictures in rapid
succession.


from minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 
From: "celicav8" hcmjanssen@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Mercury batery replacements...

Zinc Air batteries suck! Definitely! After you "activate" them, they
will only last for about 2 months; no use refitting that little cover
you pull off, since from tha moment on a chemical process inside
begins and cannot be stopped, not even temporarely. These were made
for hearing aids; the so-called "photo" version are the same
batteries! The word "photo" is purely a marketing issue.

You can recalibrate the body to the silver oxide battery; but there
are certain problems with that, like non-linear behaving of the
metering system.

Better spend the money on an adapter that takes the SR44 battery and
reduces the voltage to 1.35V; may be expensive, but the silver oxide
cell lasts much longer, so eventually you will start saving money!

Bert
...

From leica mailing list:
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 
From: Bruce Bowman b.bowman@delkergrid.com> (By way of b.bowman@delkergrid.com)
Subject: [Leica] Chinese Batteries

I did a lot of research on this subject about a year ago.

I was in Varta's plant in Ellwangen Germany when the last mercury cells were
being produced. I scored a enough to last me for a couple of years. I asked one
if the equipment guys who travels to China if he knew of anyone there that made
mercury cells. He said he would check on his next trip.

He reported that there were a couple of manufacturers, but he doubted that they
were really mercury, probably alkaline.

I\ was in China in June, and toured all of the name Chinese button cell plants.
No one was producing mercury any more. They said there was no countries 
they could sell them in any more.

It is possible that a small company could be making them. I don't know how they
could sell them in the US, Europe or Japan, however, and that's where most of
the market is.

Oh well.

I will use Zn Air or the CRIS adapter when my stock runs out.


Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 
From: david tsuei dtsuei@yahoo.com>
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] I NEED SOME HELP

TRy manual2go.com,  he has a nice list of battery for
different camera

David
....

From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 
From: "Merritt, Robert (ING)" MerrittR1@ING-AFS.com>
Subject: RE: [RF List] Kodak Instamatic 60


Paulo -- What is the battery type?  You can try this site:
http://www.photobattery.com/index.html

Nick
...



From Minolta Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 
From: "Justin Bailey" red_bailey@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: Autocord Battery PX 1

Sorry for the un-timely reply, I was traveling far afield.

Yes, the A1PX at the link I gave http://www.photobattery.com/> is an
alkaline-manganese replacement for the PX-1 (sometimes given as 1PX, or
preceded with a V for Varta).  I was a bit im-precise in giving the
dimensions of the cell, according to that site it is 16mm in diameter and
16,5mm in height.  Of course, the original Mercury chemistry gives a 
Voltage
of 1,35 and not the 1,5 now available.  If this will cause a problem, I am
not sure.  According to some tests I did with Hi-Matic cameras, you might
expect to set the film ISO two-thirds of a stop lower than rated.

A PX-625 with spacer (dimes, but hopefully you can tinker something with a
better conductivity and a little more permanence) will fit and provide the
proper Voltage, but the larger cell is obviously meant to last longer and
probably deliver a higher current.  I have been told this will work, but am
not yet in a position where I need to implement it.

I also have a Minolta Electro Shot.  I don't use it, preferring to save my
genuine PX-1s for my Minolta View Meter 9 (I have 3 of those).  The Electro
Shot is a little too automatic for my tastes: no manually selectable
aperture or shutter speeds, plus no meter indicator.  Since I have so many
other range-finder Minoltas, this one is for the collection only.

If you don't have it and would like to see the instruction manual for the
camera, I can put scanning that on the top of my priorities list.

---
Justin "RED" Bailey
red_bailey@hotmail.com



From minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002
From: "celicav8" hcmjanssen@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Mercury batery replacements...

Zinc Air batteries suck! Definitely! After you "activate" them, they
will only last for about 2 months; no use refitting that little cover
you pull off, since from tha moment on a chemical process inside
begins and cannot be stopped, not even temporarely. These were made
for hearing aids; the so-called "photo" version are the same
batteries! The word "photo" is purely a marketing issue.

You can recalibrate the body to the silver oxide battery; but there
are certain problems with that, like non-linear behaving of the
metering system.

Better spend the money on an adapter that takes the SR44 battery and
reduces the voltage to 1.35V; may be expensive, but the silver oxide
cell lasts much longer, so eventually you will start saving money!

Bert
...




From leica mailing list:
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002
From: Bruce Bowman b.bowman@delkergrid.com 
(By way of b.bowman@delkergrid.com)
Subject: [Leica] Chinese Batteries

I did a lot of research on this subject about a year ago.

I was in Varta's plant in Ellwangen Germany when the last mercury cells were
being produced. I scored a enough to last me for a couple of years. I asked one
if the equipment guys who travels to China if he knew of anyone there that made
mercury cells. He said he would check on his next trip.

He reported that there were a couple of manufacturers, but he doubted that they
were really mercury, probably alkaline.

I was in China in June, and toured all of the name Chinese button cell plants.
No one was producing mercury any more. They said there was no countries
they could sell them in any more.


It is possible that a small company could be making them. I don't know how they
could sell them in the US, Europe or Japan, however, and that's where most of
the market is.

Oh well.

I will use Zn Air or the CRIS adapter when my stock runs out.




Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002
From: david tsuei dtsuei@yahoo.com
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] I NEED SOME HELP

TRy manual2go.com,  he has a nice list of battery for
different camera

David
....




Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 
From: "Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@dlr.de" Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@web.de
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: [Rollei] Battery test

Hi folks,

some test results on batteries.

As my Olympus E20P has a high power consumption, I tested different battery
packs at low temperatures.

All batteries were put into the freezer and cooled down to -20 Centigrades
(you must figure out the Fahrenheit on your own..).
Then they were taken out and put into the camera to see their performance.
However a better test would have been to put also the camera into the
freezer, but I had some caution with that....

I did not test how long the batteries did last, but just how they worked
for the first 15 min or so.

Result:

Sanyo AA NiCd 700 mAh: o.k.
Olympus AA NiMHy1600 mAh: o.k.
Energizer AA Li battery (capacity not known): o.k.
Olympus rechargeable Li-polymer battery pack 4200 mAh: Dead

Summary:
Do not use rechargeable Li batteries at cold temperatures!!!
The rating between the NiCd, NiMH and the AA Li is not yet set, has still
to be investigated.

Unfortunately I was not able to make this test on the SL2000, where it is
also crucial to have the right batteries because you need 5 mignons, and I
had only 4 in a set for the Olympus.

Greetings so far.

Dirk


from Minolta Mailing List:
  Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 
   From: "junebug1701" junebug1701@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 1.5V Battery Conversion for SRT-101/102

--- In ManualMinolta@y..., "schwamb1" schwamb1@h.. wrote:

> I'm not alone. What is this grommet and where does one find it?
>
> Chris

Actually, it's a number 83 O-ring. You should be able to find it at any good
hardware store. It acts like a spacer to center the smaller cell in the 625
battery compartment. Be careful though, because on some cameras (like the
Minolta 16-EE II) one of the contacts is on the edge. The O-ring will not work
in that camera. However I think it will work fine in the SR-T series.

James


From Russian Camera Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: Rare Batteries, And Other things

 friedaandbrandy at pnaylor@iinet.net.au wrote:

> I wonder just how many of
> those Yashica 35s in the Goodwill Shops might actually work, but the
> former owners have given up on ever tracking down a battery?


Can't help you in Australia, but in the USA you can get the battery
from Radio Shack.

Bob



Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 
From: Jon Goodman jon_goodman@yahoo.com
To: camera-fix@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [camera-fix] Re: Yashica Electro 35

Don't know if you're still on this project, but here
are some thoughts:  the diode can be any kind of
rectifying diode...I'd pick a small one since the
current regulated is in fractions of an ampere.  Just
be sure to install the diode in the wire leading from
the top of the battery box to the camera in the
correct position.  A diode works both as a blocker of
current (if installed one way) or it allows current to
flow through (if installed the other way)...one diode
will lower voltage by about .7 volts.  Since the 6
volt alkaline actually gives you about 6.4/6.5 volts,
this is probably the easiest way to reduce it to the
voltage you would have gotten from a 5.6 mercury cell.

...

Hope it helps.
Jon




Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 
From: Richard Urmonas rurmonas@senet.com.au
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] How Cold Weather Affects 6008i Batteries

> Are the effects of the cold "permanent"? In other words, if the body
> indicates that the battery is depleted, is the charge really gone, or can
> it be recovered by warming the battery?

As the temperature is lowered the chemical activity within the battery
diminishes.  The battery is thus less able to supply the high current peaks
that a motorised camera needs.  Warming the battery up will increse the
chemical activity and the battery will be better able to deliver the current
peaks.  I would not expect a "threshold" as such.  The battery will simply
become less able to deliver the current required as the temperature reduces.
The apparent affect will be a fewer exposures from a fully charged battery.

The only caution is to not let the battery freeze.  As the electrolyte is a
strong solution this does not occur until quite cold temperatures.  Depending
on the battery type you should be careful as temperatures approach -10 deg C
(14 deg F).  I have designed NiCd powered equipment for operation to -20 deg C
(-4 deg F) but cannot recall if these were special "low temperature" NiCd
cells.

--
Richard Urmonas
richard@urmonas.com


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 
From: Frantisek Vlcek sonnar@centrum.cz
Subject: Re: Batteries for digicams


Tim wrote:
TM> Yes!  NiCd are notorious for having a memory effect.
TM> A simplistic view is that if it takes 3 hours to fully
[...]
TM> Anyone with better information , please polish this up
TM> a little!

Hi Tim,
   I will try to polish it a bit with my meager knowledge :)

   simply, it all depends on the charger. Smart chargers are a MUST.

1) Memory effect of NiCd batteries - I recommend reading about it in
the rechargables faq. from my memory only:


    - much of a hype. the true memory effect you wrote about is almost
    impossible to achieve except in controlled laboratory environment,
    as the discharge/charge to the same (lower) level must be done at least
    5-10 cycles and always to the same level +/- 1% !

    - the ill effect of NiCds most people confuse with memory effect
    is simply overcharging or mistreatment with bad chargers, which
    can lead to batteries with internal microshortcircuits between the
    electrodes, and other ill effects like electrolyte exhaustion from
    excessive overheating when overcharging.

2)   - good points of NiCds are about 2x faster to deliver current than
    NiMH, which are in turn several times faster to deliver current
    than Alkalines. Rechargable Lithiums are about between cadmiums
    and MH cells. This is important if you need fast recycle times in
    your flash and similar high drain applications. If the drain in
 current (A) is about equal to the battery capacity (Ah), you
    better use NiCds as they have the least internal resistance. Most
    (most! there are some industrial ones which are better!) NiMH are
    good for delivering currents up to one half of their rated
    capacity. Lithiums in between. NiCds can deliver currents WAY over
    their rated capacity if for short time. Never short a charged NiCd
    battery as it can virtually self-destruct itself, releasing all
    its charge in ten seconds or so (an interesting experiment in
    controlled atmosphere environment, if you use really thick, 4mm or
    so wires, and exhaustor, as the released gases contain lot of
    deadly cadmium. You should filter the air for it somehow
    afterwards as just releasing it into the atmosphere from the
    exhaustor is certainly immoral and illegal).

    Also, they last longer in cold environment than NiMHs, and
    selfdischarge quite more slowly than NiMHs (but still quite faster
    than Lithiums, which selfdischarge very very slowly lasting long
time on the shelf)

    - bad point is they are more finicky about overcharging, thus your
    average 10hr charger is not much good. An IC charger is the best,
    monitoring such things as dV, maybe temperature, and other points.

    I have first used a slow C/10 charger for years. The batteries
    were less and less usable, as it overcharged them et cetera. I
    switched to an excellent but still not overpriced battery pack
    charger with IC controller, and it made a whole lot of difference,
    it even revived the almost unusable NiCds I have been mistreating
    back then with C/10 charger.

3)
TM> If you only charge it for 10 minutes then it will
TM> remember to only offer 10 minutes discharge time! EVEN
TM> if it was halfway charged in the first place!  So its
TM> difficult to train the battery to give 3 hours ever

    sorry that's not true. See above point 1.

4) Big bad thing with NiCds is that they are difficult or impossible
to recycle. That's the main point why you should "avoid them like a
plague". The deadly Cadmium in them will never leave the environment
if you just throw them out with the dump, and even if you leave at
"old battery hospic" it's difficult to remove the Cadmium. If you just
dump them out, well, IMO you would be a murderer.

That's why NiMH were designed, although they have worse
characteristics, they are quite more friendly to the environment (not
meaning you should dump them in the waste too!)

5) So if you use NiMH pack, you can get about same performance as NiCd
wrt speed of current delivery (very unscientific sorry) when you just
increase the capacity of the MH pack to double that of the Cd pack!


Please remember this is a lot from memory and may not be dead
accurate. I will be glad to have any mistakes corrected.

Best regards,
   Frantisek Vlcek


From camera fix mailing list:
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 
From: Patrick Harris sammler@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Batteries for digicams

Years ago I had to deal with partially charged NiCd battery packs in my
Metz flashes and later in my laptop computer.  I resorted to "manually"
discharging them.  I took a 12v automotive tail light bulb, soldered a lead
at the side, soldered another lead at the base, placed alligator
(crocodile) clips on the leads and then connected the clips to the battery
.  When the lamp ceased to glow I disconnected the leads, tested the
battery output with a meter and if it showed a marginal amount of voltage I
connected a test lead across the terminals (dead short) and left that for
15-20 minutes.  When the voltage was 0 I then recharged the battery.  The
first time I did this procedure I found that "once was not enough" and had
to repeat the cycle a few time to cause the battery pack to lose its
"memory" and recharge fully.  After that I almost never recharged a battery
pack with "manually" discharging it and was able to get max usage from the
battery pack.

I've just had a problem with the battery packs for my cell phone - NiMHs
for my Ericsson do seem to have developed a "memory" problem.  Every night
(for over a year) I had been connecting the phone to the recharger, even
thought the battery indicator might have been near max, and in the morning
I would disconnect the charger.  Within the last month or so the battery
indicator would be at max or near max but during a day I could only talk
for 20-30 minutes before the unit indicated a low battery and frequently it
would then "die".    I just tried the procedure above and I gotten 2 days
(limited conversations - about 10 minutes total) use so far and the battery
indicator is at maximum - usually I couldn't get a days worth of mostly
standby out of either of my NiMHs.  Initial indications are that this
procedure works on NiMHs -- I hope I don't have to report back in a few
days that I've "fried" something.

Pat


From: "Robert J. Glerum" robert@glerum-3.myweb.nl
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: PX 625 batteries questions for Minolta SRT camera
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002


Download the pdf-file at:
http://www.rolleiclub.nl/batterijadapterUS.html

Very useful information for PX 625 wanna-users

Regards,
Robert


From contax mailing list:
From: Kravcar Bostjan    ITWSCT kravcar@iskratel.si
Subject: RE: [Contax] Silver or Lithium Batteries?
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 

Evan !

Try one of these:

www.micro-tools.com

http://www.zbattery.com/zbattery/d303-357.html

http://www.watch-battery.com/

http://www.eurobatteries.com/sitepages/watchbatteries.asp

http://www.cheapbatteries.com/photo.htm


http://www.mailshots.co.uk/cat6_1.htm

http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/battery.htm

http://www.mx2.com/deutsch/acatalog/MX2_Camera_Batteries_169.html

...and many more. Simply type "SR44 batteries" in your web browser and
you'll find a vendor that suits you most.

Kind regards

Sebastian


From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 
From: Nathan Wajsman wajsman@webshuttle.ch
Subject: Re: [Rollei] PX 13 Mercury Battery

George,

In several camera shops here in Zurich they sell Chinese-made PX625
copies, so you should be able to find them in Hong Kong. But be careful,
since some of them are apparently fake, i.e. alkaline or silver
batteries just labelled as mercury. If you can get hold of the real
thing, i.e. Varta, you are safer.

Nathan


From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 
From: Roger Wiser wiserr@cni-usa.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] PX 13 Mercury Battery

I agree - last year I bought some Chinese PX625 when they were still
available in the USA. Their voltage was 1.5 although the vendor insisted
that it would go down after some use.

You might experiment with hearing aid batteries, Zinc Air, which are 1.3V ,
In the USA they are about $4 for 5. I adapted them to some of my old 35 mm
cameras but not the Rollei.

R.....


From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 
From: Aaron Wallace aaron@skeeky.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] PX 13 Mercury Battery


I've ordered from:


http://www.px625.com/

and the batteries had the correct voltage (they were for a Canonet).  That
said, I probably wouldn't go that route again--Costco sells zinc-oxide
hearing aid batteries (the 675 part, blue tab, if I recall...) that work
fine (for me, in the Canonet) for a lot less, and those with an appropriate
o-ring from your hardware store (#88, if I remember) and you're in
business.  Sure, they don't last as long, but I think the "bulk" price
makes them cheaper than the real deal.


The only problem with using zinc-oxide batteries in the Rollei 35
(pre-SE/TE/LED) may be getting air to the battery--the compartment seems
pretty well sealed.  Also, it's not convenient to change batteries if you
should find your meter dead mid-roll.

you wrote:
>RUGers,
>
>Does anyone know of sourcing the px 13 or px 625
>mercury battery in Asia region, in particular Hong
>Kong(where i'm from) and China since i'm trying to
>replace batteries for my rollei 35 and light meter and
>am trying to avoid the purchase of the MR-9 adaptor.
>Previous info on the "button online" source have
>rendered zero response.



From minolta mailing list:
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 
From: rolohar@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: PX625 mercury & Flourescent Light Tubes

hcmjanssen@hotmail.com writes:

> I guess you mean the mercury vapour lights.

I believe ordinary flourescent tubes contain some mercury. I also believe
that there is a prescribed way of disposing of these tubes, but it is not
followed. I think we are supposed to turn the exhausted tubes into a
designated recycling facility.

Read this:

http://es.epa.gov/techinfo/facts/ca-htm/htmfact2.html

Roland F. Harriston


From rollei mailing list:
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: RE: [Rollei] PX 13 Mercury Battery

you wrote:
>Hi Chris,
>
>thanks for your response. did tried the stanley street
>camera shops but they only stock varta 625 alkaline
>batteries in 1.5v. even tried looking at street
>vendors at sham sui po's ap liu st. but no mercury
>batteries. have heard from others that China still
>makes these batteries but don't know the source.
>
>regards
>
>George

 The difference in initial voltage is just part of the problem. The virtue
of Mercury cells is that the voltage is very uniform throughout their
lives. This allows the equipment maker to avoid having to have some sort of
voltage regulator in the equipment.

  Alkaline cells may not damage stuff designed for Mercury cells but it
will throw off the calibration _and_ make it impossible to recalibrate
because the readings will change as the battery ages.

  I understand the Zink air cells have steady output but much shorter
lifetime than Mercury. I believe they are available in a direct replacement
for the PX-25 type. I think Bob Shell had something to do with their
development so should know.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@ix.netcom.com




From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 
From: Ferdi Stutterheim ferdi@stutterheim.nl
Subject: [Rollei] PX 625 DIY battery adaptor

Hi,
Earlier this week my e-mail traffic suffered from an over-zealous anti-virus
protection system. I have the impression the next message has not reached
the Group. In case it came through, please accept my apologies. Another try:

Hello All,

For some time the website of the Rollei Club of the Netherlands has
described a DIY-kit for a battery adaptor to use a Silver Oxide cell instead
of the old Mercury cell PX625. It used to be in Dutch language only, but is
now in English too. If you are interested follow this link:

 http://www.rolleiclub.nl/batterijadapterUS.html

The page refers to a 14 page PDF-file with a lot of technical information
which I did not bother to read. Seems like an engineers job. The kit is
described at the end of the paper.

Ferdi Stutterheim,
Drachten, The Netherlands.
http://www.stutterheim.org



From nikon mailing list:
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 
From: Rick Housh rick@housh.net
Subject: Re: PX625 URL/Mercury replacements

Craig Zeni wrote:
>http://www.px625.com/
>
>I bought some cells from them - no problems.

Me too, and I still have some.  Now that the price is up to $8.00 (US) *per
cell*, I guess I'm going to have to find a refrigerated safe deposit box
for them.  I notice this says these are the last of the last, and I'm
inclined to believe it.  There have been some reports that mercury cells
are still being made in China, but others that those aren't up to proper
electrical specification.

At this point, use of the Wein (air/zinc) cells, or an adapter such as the
C.R.I.S. seem to be the simplest solutions.


Permanently wiring the components of the adapter into the camera's
circuitry so a silver oxide or alkaline cell can be used satisfactorily
seems to be feasible and the most permanent solution, requiring only the
addition of a Schottky diode to the camera.

A very good discussion of the various alternatives is available in an Adobe
PDF file from the Netherlands Rolleiflex club:
  This version is in English.

The Rollei club file also has instructions on fabricating a DIY PX625
adapter similar to the C.R.I.S. MR-9.  Those instructions can be easily
adapted to permanently internally modify the camera body's
circuit.  Component values are given for readily available appropriate
diodes.  However, the only advantage of the permanent modification over the
C.R.I.S. adapter, aside from protection against accidentally discarding the
adapter, would be cost and the ability to use a full PX625 size silver
oxide cell instead of the smaller capacity S76 silver oxide cell residing
in the C.R.I.S. adapter.  The C.R.I.S. adapter is a reasonable $30, plus
shipping, which seems attractive considering the alternatives, if your time
has any value.

Josh's solution of buying one genuine Wein brand cell to salvage its
washer-adapter, then refilling it with the $1 hearing aid zinc-air cells
also seems a good solution, if you don't mind changing cells
frequently.  I'm certainly going to try that with one of my expended Wein
cells.  I assume that when I disassemble it I'll be able to see the type
designation of the smaller zinc/air hearing aid cell inside.

There seems to be one other alternative - recharging the mercury cells -
although I don't think I would ever try that myself.  This is reported in a
Leica FAQ file: http://www.nemeng.com/leica/bin/px625.txt, and here is a
site selling a mercury button cell solar recharger for $22.00
U.S. http://www.realgoods.com/renew/shop/product.cfm?dp=1500&sd;=1505&ts;=3070300


Most may want to skip over the next paragraph, which is a somewhat
technical discussion of techniques to permanently modify the camera body's
battery circuit:

A Schottky barrier diode has a constant voltage drop of about 0.2V across
its PN junction (compared to a 0.7v drop for a typical silicon diode and
0.3v for a typical germanium diode).  When wired in series with a single
silver oxide 1.55 volt cell, a carefully chosen Schottky diode will reduce
the voltage to virtually the exact 1.35V produced by the PX625 mercury
cell.  Modifying the camera's circuit with the proper Schottky diode in
series with the battery, then using a silver oxide PX625S cell will result
in a permanent fix very similar electronically to the method used in the
C.R.I.S. adapter.  Reports that the C.R.I.S. adapter uses a resistor to
reduce the voltage from the silver battery are erroneous.  This would not
work properly - the Schottky diode's voltage drop is constant, linear, and
not dependent on current as a resistor circuit would be.  Although the
silver oxide cell's power curve isn't quite as flat over time as that of a
mercury cell, it is close enough.  For some empirical tests of possible
exposure errors using different diodes to modify the battery meter circuit
of an Olympus OM-1, see
http://zuiko.sls.bc.ca/swright/archives/1999/msg05720.html 

Surprisingly, the author's conclusion is that the collector to base junction of very
cheap surplus germanium transistors gave the most accurate results in
actual practice when used to drop the battery voltage.  Interesting reading.

- Rick Housh -




From nikon mailing list:
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 
From: "bhjs03" bhjs03@yahoo.com.hk
Subject: Re: PX625 URL/Mercury replacements

--- In NikonMF@y..., Ron Schwarz rs@c... wrote:
> Now that the price is up to $8.00 (US) *per
> >cell*, I guess I'm going to have to find a refrigerated safe deposit box
> >for them

After reading this morning I went out one hour ago to ask about the
mercury cell in the photoshops. Surprisingly their stock still
lasts 'HD625/1.35v'. Even more surprising, they ask for ten HK dollars
(1 USD=7.8 HKD) per cell. I bought three for trial, and only query is
whether the cells expire or not.

Bishop from Hong Kong


From nikon mailing list:
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 
From: Craig Zeni clzeni@MINDSPRING.COM
Subject: Re: Re: PX625 URL/Mercury replacements

The FAQ on px625.com claims that they have a couple of five year old cells
that they keep in the 'fridge that test out just fine each time they have a
go at it.
...
--
Craig Zeni 


From nikon mailing list:
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 
From: Rick Housh rick@housh.net
Subject: Re: PX625 URL/Mercury replacements

 Ron Schwarz wrote:
>It's just pressed-on to the cell.  You can press it out (or bang it out) by
>putting it into a vice, or drill a hole in a piece of wood (bigger than
>battery, smaller than washer).  IIRC the cell (unmarked) is physically the
>same size as a 357 which I think is a watch/hearing aid designation.
>(Equiv. to a 675 photo battery)

This suggests that if you had a source of PX675 mercury cells, but not
PX625's, you could use the Wein "adapter washer" to use the 675's in the
625 camera, as well as the zinc/air 357's.  Some time ago, when I had no
mercury 625's I successfully used mercury 675's in a Canonet by shimming
them up around the edges with plastic insulation from a piece of wire, and
inserting a thin washer underneath.


>I would surmise that a *slow* charge (like from a tiny photocell array, or a
>couple of AAs through a resistor) would probably give it a good charge and
>restore it to usability.  Caveat: my kick-ass mini-charge looks like it may
>have bulged the plastic on the neg end. (I don't know if it was bulged
>before I started).  I doubt it would be a problem with a couple milliamp
>charge (a la photocell) but the 4 amps an AA cell puts out is more than I'd
>want to pump into that tiny sealed device.

The conventional wisdom, at least with NiCad and NiMH cells, is that you
can safely leave them permanently connected to a slow charger with a
capacity of no more than 1/10 C (10% of their maximum capacity).  This
"trickle" will charge one of those cells from its dissipated state to full
charge in 10-14 hours, and the cell can safely be left on the charger
indefinitely.  The C of a 625 is 475 mAH.  This means a simple low-tech,
slow charger for a 625 should be limited to 0.0475 AH (47.5 mAH - 1/20 AH),
assuming the mercury cell reacts similarly to recharging as a NiCad or NiMH
cell does (I don't know that it does, or what dangers may be created by
recharging a mercury cell).

I still don't know if I'd try recharging mercury cells.  If something went
wrong, mercury is nasty stuff, which can have disastrous effects on the
central nervous system.  As many may be aware it is the substance formerly
commonly used in the manufacture of felt hats, and its effect on the
nervous systems of workers in that industry is what led to the phrase "mad
as a hatter."  I shudder to think how, as kids, we used to break fever
thermometers and rub the mercury on coins to make them
super-shiny.  Needless to say, anyone using these cells, which contain
about 30% mercury, should be responsible about disposing of them according
to regulation.  Although the cells are no longer manufactured generally,
plenty of mercury is still used in industrial applications, so there exist
established, safe methods and facilities for recycling and disposition of
expended cells.  My local camera shop is still a registered button cell
disposal center, and accepts used mercury cells for proper disposition.

- Rick Housh -



From nikon mailing list:
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: Re: battery on nikkormat FTn

you wrote:
>And this gives you an equivalent to the PX625?  I'd like to try one to get
>the meter in my Canon FTb working.

Wein offers three zinc-air cells as follows:

         MRB625 CELL 1.35V ZINC-AIR (PX625/13) - Wein # 990120
         MRB675 CELL 1.35V ZINC-AIR (PX675) - Wein # 990122
         MRB400 CELL 1.35V ZINC-AIR (RM400) - Wein #990124

--
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com


From nikon mailing list:
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 
From: Ron Schwarz rs@clubvb.com
Subject: (misc on recharging) Re: PX625 URL/Mercury replacements

Forgot to mention that "Don't recharge!" directives are generally
marketting driven rather than technically driven, but sometimes technology
catches up with marketting.

Back in the 1960s, I had one of those first-generation Norelco cassette
recorders.  (The classic model with the "joystick" button in the
front/center that controlled everything.)  It used C cells.  And man, did
it use 'em.  However, I bought some Mallory Duracells (again, first
generation), and reused them repeatedly by recharging them.

Back then, "rechargability" was one of the selling points for the new
alkaline batteries.  (It doubtless helped marketing given the high price
they charged.)  Not only didn't the manufacturer warn against it, but they
actually advocated it and used it as a selling point.

Somewhere along the line, alkaline battery sales took off, to the point
that they predominated.  Being able to recharge them was not going to help
sales, and would if anything hurt sales.

Around that time, they started putting "don't recharge!" warnings on the
batteries.  But, you could still recharge them successfully.

But then, the "Mercury Free!" alkalines hit the shelves, and guess what?
When they re-engineed the cell design, they did *something* that resulted
in the things leaking like a stuck pig if you tried to recharge them.

Finally, after decades of research and development efforts, technology was
able to catch up with marketting, and deliver a battery that truly would
live up to its "Do Not Charge!" label.  Ain't science something?



From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 
From: Rick Housh Have you ever tried to restore NiCd cells using a capacitor?  My boss
>(a Ph.D. physicist with 4o years experience) tells me that a
>capacitor (5000 uF?) will deliver an extremely dense but short
>current spike.  This spike travels through the battery through the
>path of least resistance, i.e. through a crystal that has deposited.
>(the major cause of NiCd failure)  It vapourizes the crystal but the
>duration is short enough not to harm the cell.  The next time its
>done, it will destroy the next crystal since this is the new path of
>least resistance.  Repeat 10x, measure the cell's voltage, repeat
>again if necessary.  He tells me that he has fixed NiCd packs this
>way many times.


I haven't done it myself, but what your boss says is consistent with other
accounts I have read, and have heard of.  One problem with NiCad cells is
that they develop these conductive "threads" which appear as shorts between
the positive and negative elements, internally, and which operate to
dissipate a fresh charge in very short order.  A short but very high
current will vaporize the threads and restore the cell's ability to retain
a charge.  However, most of the accounts I have read say the restoration is
usually short-lived.  For that reason, and because NiMH's fit my usage
pattern, as you say they do yours, I have more or less just disposed of all
my defective NiCad's without attempting to restore them.  I keep a bunch of
NiMH's on "trickle" charge constantly.  I suspect other users who have
frequent deep discharge cycles and/or need very rapid recharging would find
NiCad's still to be the cell of choice.

>What's your opinion on Li ion rechargables?  I don't know their
>discharge properties, although I suspect from the Nernst equation
>that they do not have the cold weather performance of NiCd batteries.


Lithium Ion rechargeables pack higher voltage and current capacity into a
very compact space, and their self-discharge rate is very low, compared to
NiCads, and especially NiMH's.  You're correct about their cold weather
performance.  It's on the low side, and their deep-discharge cycle life is
low, about 250-300 charge-recharge cycles.  The maximum instantaneous
current they can deliver is not high compared to other cell
chemistries.  However, their biggest problem is that they are subject to
failure, and catastrophic failure at that (they explode!), if they are
charged too fast. Furthermore, if some mechanical injury exposes the
negative terminal, it can spontaneously combust.  Lithium is not all that
stable.  All this adds up to a considerably higher cost for the mandatory
protective charging circuitry, frequent replacement need, and complex
disposal problems.  However, you see them a lot in smaller digital cameras,
probably driven primarily by the desire for miniaturization, and because
they can be sold with the proper OEM charging equipment.  They don't make
good replacements for older cameras because new charging equipment would be
necessary, and because their voltage is too high.

On reflection, doesn't it seem ironic that mercury batteries have been, in
effect, banned, while the new technology seems to favor cells which can
spontaneously combust when subjected to physical damage, to say nothing of
depositing a heavy metal like cadmium (from NiCad disposal) in the
environment?  On the whole, NiMH seems the best compromise.  It has better
efficiency per volume and weight than NiCad, although not quite as good as
Li Ion, it's a little sensitive to overcharge but its overcharge failure
mode presents no external hazard, and it doesn't present the disposal
problem of other types.  Of course, there's always standard alkaline cells,
if you can get by without a rechargeable battery.  I use them in all my
infrequently-used stuff.

- Rick Housh -


From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 
From: Roger Wiser wiserr@cni-usa.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] [OT] new NiMH, how do they keep charge if unused ?

I use the new NiMH for my flash and digital cameras and they are very
satisfactory but if not been used for a time there is a need for some
recharging. They are 1.2v instead of 1.5v but the performance does not seem to
be affected. The more modern  electronic units must have effective voltage
regulators. They last longer than the normal alkalines and the rechargeable
alkalines that I also use.

Ray O Vac has rechargeable alkaline batteries. I bought some a year ago with a
charger. The advantage is that they are 1.5v, if that is needed, and they are
more reasonable. The disadvantage is that they lose their charge at a faster
rate when not in use and the charge does not last long when they are in
regular use. I also use them in my portable disc and tape player. They must
have lost their popularity because they are disappearing from the stores that
originally sold them.

When using any rechargeable batteries, especially alkaline it is important to
carry enough spares.

Roger


From rollei mailing list:
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 
From: rurmonas@senet.com.au
Subject: RE: [Rollei] [OT] new NiMH, how do they keep charge if unused ?

> The problem with NiCds is memory.
> If you don't fully discharge them and recharge them they eventually lose
> their full capacity.

Unfortunately there is a lot of incorrect information about NiCd batteries
which exists even amongst battery suppliers.  Firstly memory is extremely
rare.  It is almost impossible to reproduce except under test conditions.
The effect you are seeing is "Voltage Depression Effect".  This is cured
by slowly dischraging the cells to 1.1 volts per cell and then recharging
them.  The better NiCd battery chargers will do this for you.

> You can revive NiCds that will not hold a charge by placing a larger
> voltage
> (positive to positive & negative to negative) across the NiCd battery for a
> second, then immediately recharge it.  I use a 9v battery or sometimes just
> go in the garage and use my car battery.  Since you only do it for a split
> second there is no harm.  Doing this breaks up the short (or memory) that
> has developed over a period of time in the battery. Thereafter, it may last
> for months or only hours.

This is a second seperate effect, generally called something like
"whisker growth".  This is usually caused by repeated overcharging
(or long term trickle charging).  The whiskers can be broken by
applying a high current supply briefly.  A car battery is ideal.
The reason the batteries often only last a short time after this is
because whisker formation is caused by overcharging, this same
overcharging is what kills the cells.  The best idea is to be careful
not to overcharge NiCds.

Richard
---
Richard Urmonas
rurmonas@senet.com.au


From SLR manual mailing list:
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 
From: Douglas Green dougjgreen@att.net
Subject: Mercury Batteries - THE SOLUTION!


While I cannot help you with a source for the Mercury batteries, I can
tell you about an excellent method for replacing them.

You can use zinc-air batteries to replace them.  Zinc Air batteries only
put out 1.35-1.4 V, so you will not have to recalibrate the meters like
you do with the Alkaline replacements.  The only drawback is that they
wear out quickly, not from use, but from exposure to air once they are
opened (typically 1-2 months).  But on the good side, they can be gotten
VERY cheaply, because they are sold as hearing-aid batteries, in bulk,
for very low price.  Look for the 76-size of Zinc Air hearing aid
batteries.  They sell them in packs of 6 for $4 at Wal-Mart, and packs
of 8 for $6 at Radio Shack.  Costco sells them in packs of 24 for $13.

Now these batteries are NOT the same size as the 625 Mercury Battery,
they are the same size as the 675 Mercury Battery.  If your camera uses
the 675, these can be a direct drop in replacement.   But if it uses the
625, the battery chamber will need some type of adapter - which is MUCH
easier than it sounds.

BTW, this is essentially exactly the same thing as what a Wein cell is
doing, only with a stamped metal adapter piece, and they are marking
these batteries up from around 35 cents in bulk to $4.95 or more retail
in the process of adding their metal adapter.

Some folks sell little plastic sleeves for around $6 on ebay, designed
for various cameras.  I've seen that, and didn't want to pay $6 plus $2
shipping for 10 cents worth of plastic, so I decided to invent a
solution myself.  It turns out that a simple and cheap solution can be
found at your local Home Depot.  It's a simple plumbing supply item
called a rubber O-ring.  Depending on the size, they cost between 25 and
50 cents.  Through trial and error, I discovered that most cameras that
use the 625 cell can be physically adapted to take 76-size batteries
through either a #9 or #10 rubber O-ring, either of which costs 29 cents
at Home Depot.  The proper size O-ring will fit snugly in the battery
chamber of your camera, and it will stay there, until you remove it
(which can be easily done with any toothpick or tweezer when and if you
wish to return your camera to it's original condition).

One other caveat.  Your camera's battery cover needs to have a small
hole in it, because zinc-air batteries need to breathe.  Some covers
already have the hole in it, while others will require either drilling
or punching a small (say 1/16th inch diameter) hole in them.

I have had the opportunity to try this solution with the following
cameras, successfully:

  Canon EF  (with a #10 O-ring)
  Nikkormat FTN  (With a #10 O-ring)
  Olympus OM-1 & OM-1n  (With a #9 O-ring)
  Konica Auto S-2  (With a #10 O-ring)
  Konica Auto S-3  (no O-ring needed, uses 675 so 76 cells drop in)
  Minolta SRT 101, 102, 202, etc. (With a #9 O-ring)

The cameras that I have NOT been able to make work with this solution
are the  Leica CL  and Nikon F Photomic FTn head.  Both have problems
not from a battery size issue, but because their battery chambers are
structured in such a manner that it is problematic to easily allow the
the zinc-air cells to breathe.  In the case of the Leica CL, you would
have to drill a hole in the bottom of the camera, which I imagine is not
an attractive thought.  In the case of the Nikon Photomic Head, it uses
2 cells stacked one atop the other.  It is very easy to have the battery
that is adjacent to the chamber cover breathe, but the other battery
that is below it can't get any air to it's anode.  I HAVE been able to
get the Photomic head to work fine with ONE zinc-air cell and one 625
mercury battery.

I offer this solution to the public domain, so that so many of these
great classic cameras can continue to be used to the fullest.

- Doug Green
Dougman


from contax mailing list:
From: "Alex Wong" puccibuy@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Contax] NiCads v Alkaline
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 

HI Michael,

It won't work that way, as most applications would stop discharging the
battery when it reaches a certain voltage (more exact when it sees a certain
impedance change in the batteries). Thus, your nimH might only be discharged
to 1.1V, and not the nominal 1V voltage. Sometimes, in order to eliminate
any memory effect and prolong the battery, we need to exercise/recondition
the battery. What this means is to discharge fully to 1V (this is called
exercise) before recharging it back fully. Some new charger comes with a
deep discharge feature which does exactly that. However,what I have is some
cheap charger which I seldom use, and  thurlby power supply which I use to
trickle charge.


In order to dischage to 1 V, I found out from my colleague yesterday, the
best methods is get a low ohmic resistor, 1ohm for example,and connect it to
the battery. You can monitor the voltage and the current drawn with a
multimeter. Using a larger resistor value would discharge the battery slower
at a lower current, and vice versa. YOu have to take care of not using too
small a resistor value until it draws more current than the battery can
supply (for eg. maha spec sheet for a 1.6AH can supply 3x1.6A maximum).

Unless you know the curve of the battery discharge via a spec sheet, you
have to watch the discharge progress via a multimeter.

More is explained here:

http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap10-page2.asp

Best Regards

Alex
...


From nikon mailing list:
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 
From: Maximiliano Fernandez Mendoza maska45@yahoo.com.ar
Subject: Re: [Nikon] OT: More on rechargeables

A couple of days ago, I replied Patricio privately, recommending him a very
useful resource I've been using lately. Since it has helped me to develop a
kind of "battery-awareness", I thought it could be useful for some you too:

Isidor Buchmann's book on the web:
"Batteries in a portable world - A handbook on rechargeable batteries for
non-engineers", second edition;
http://www.buchmann.ca/default.asp

Buchmann's site offers also a number of in-depth articles on specific subjects
(some translated to German, French, Spanish and Swedish). I recommend you to
take a look at these:

--> "Not all chargers are alike - Improve battery performance with proper
charge methods"; http://www.buchmann.ca/article18-page1.asp
--> "Memory: myth or fact?"; http://www.buchmann.ca/Article10-Page1.asp
--> "The battery and the digital load";
http://www.buchmann.ca/Article11-Page1.asp

Note: Mr. Buchmann is the president, founder and CEO of Cadex Electronics Inc.,
located in Richmond (Vancouver), Canada. Cadex Electronics Inc. is a world
leader in the design and manufacture of battery analyzers and chargers.

Bon apetit,
Max

> Following the thread about rechargeables I came to realise I don't know
> anything about it.
> I use NiCad for my SB20. When I know I'll be using the flash a lot, I leave
> it ON a couple of days before to fully discharge the batteries, the recharge
> them. I don't have a smrt recharger, and they got terribly expensive down
> here right now.
> So, can someone, privately if this is too OT, explain me the infamous memory
> effect and what's the right way of using rechargeables so they last the most
> and work best?
> Thank you very much!
> Patricio Murphy



From minolta mailing list:

   Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 01:34:03 EDT
   From: rolohar@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hi-Matic E batterys

In a message dated 8/23/02 8:43:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
SaalsD@cni-usa.com writes:

<< The PX 640 1.4 v batteries are no longer available and the cris adaptor
doesn't work because it puts out 1.35 v.  So any suggestions for batteries? >>

Am I mistaken in thinking that the cris adaptor was designed to replace
mercury cells which have a NOMINAL no-load voltage of ABOUT 1.35 volts?

If you have two cris adaptors, you can use some metal spacers (washers)
to establish good electrical contact in the battery compartment, go ahead and
shoot a roll of film and see what you get.

I have been using two alkaline GPA 76 cells in my Hi-Matic E cameras for over
a year now, configured in the manner described above. I have also used two 76
type cells, held together in series with masking tape around their
circumferences, to fit in one PX640 space and washers or a metal cylinder of
some type about the same size as another PX640 in the other space in the
battery compartment of Hi-Matic E and F cameras.

Be creative. I've even heard of users balling up aluminum foil to make
connections when the cell they were using was smaller than the originally
specified cell.
Battery life may be shorter with a smaller capacity cell, but at least you
get to use your Hi-Matic E or F.

La Dolce Vita.

As has been said over, and over, and over, and over and over and over again
on this and other lists and groups: C41 color negative film has such a wide
exposure latitude that the differences in voltages between the various types
of cells and the subsequent slight difference in exposure parameters is not a
big deal. I have found this premise to be very true in about 95 percent of my
shooting situations.

In addition, most, if not all, of the semi-automated /automated C41
processing equipment in use today will do some compensation for slightly
over/under exposed negatives in the auto printing process.

If you are a professional photog,  where your camera work has to be handled
by someone else or meet their criteria, or shooting a lot of color
transparency  film, you might want to think about other arrangements. But
even these films (as do all other films) have some exposure latitude, be it
much tighter than C41 print film.

Using zinc-air cells would be something to think about.

There is no perfect solution IMHO.


As far as B&W; is concerned: Most pros agree that many good photos are made in
the darkroom, not in the camera. Ansel Adams.

But then, I don't think many professional photogs who would be going out on
assignment with any camera like the Minolta Hi Matic E.

This is not to say that it is not an excellent example of the technology as
it existed during its production period. It is a very fine snapshot camera.

I presently own five Hi Matic E cameras, including a very handsome all black
model.
I got them real cheap because they were broken, and I repaired them.

My favorite "old-time" cameras for shooting are the Hi-Matic E, F, and the
highly touted Canonet QL17 GIII.


And 1.35v mercury cells (or 1.40v if you want to think of them that way) are
still available from a few obscure sources. Since the PX625 was one of the
most commonly used, they are still being made in China and a few places in
Europe.

You will have to devise some way of holding these smaller cells in the
Hi-Matic E and F cameras. Ordinary metal washers used as spacers, from your
local hardware store can be used to make contact.

If you don't mind shelling out 8 dollars a copy for mercury cells from some
obscure source, go to the URL below:

http://www.px625.com/px625/main.cgi

Roland F. Harriston


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 
From: xkaes@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hi-Matic E batterys

SaalsD@cni-usa.com writes:

 I am thinking about buying a Hi-Matic E just because I used to have one and
 it was a neat little camera.  But, what do I do about batterys?  The PX 640
 1.4 v batterys are no longer available and the cris adaptor doesn't work
 because it puts out 1.35 v.  So any suggestions for batterys? 

You can get them from www.photobattery.com -- they are a SUBCLUB sponsor.


From minolta mailing list:
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 
From: "Bill Kean" wjkean@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Hi-Matic E batterys

Hi,
The fact that alkalines are best used for running motors and other types
used for anything that either performs best with low internal resistance
batteries (flash guns) or constant voltage (meters) is illusrated by the
following graph -

http://www.nlectc.org/txtfiles/batteryguide/images/ba-fig5.gif

You can see that the alkalines change voltage continuously. So your HO is
right.

Bill


from rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 
From: Saggers@aol.com
Subject: Re: Batteries for the Minolta Hi-Matic E

Dave,
I have a Yashica FC rangefinder that uses 2 #640 batteries. If you can
survive with the alkaline versions of these, (by adjusting the ASA/ISO
setting) they can be found inside the still available Duracell #A32 battery.
Carefully cut the plastic coating off of the battery, inside you will find
four #640 batteries tacked together. Gently pry them apart. Bingo.

Hope this helps.

Larry Hamel-Lambert

I am about to receive a Minolta Hi-Matic E  and wonder if anyone has a
solution for the non-existant 640 type batteries (1.4v)   I have read on the
net that the C.R.I.S. adaptors don't work properly in both physical size and
voltage output (1.35v)  Has anyone a solution which will provide with
accurate camera function in shutter speed and meter that they would like to
share?


Thanks,
Dave Saalsaa



From rangefinder mailing list:
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 
From: Rolohar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RF List] Batteries for the Minolta Hi-Matic E

dougjgreen@att.net writes:

 As for a physical adapter, best thing to do is go to Home Depot,
 and in the plumbing section, they have various size of rubber O-rings.

Yes, the O rings are a good idea for increasing the diameter of smaller cells.

But for the Minolta Hi-Matic E and F cameras, something has to be done about
the  the length (thickness) differential between 640 and the Type 76 or 675
cell or whatever type of "button" cell you elect to use.

The 640 cell is about 0.615" dia and about 0.450" thick.
The Type 675 cell is about 0.450" dia and about 0.210: thick
The Type 76 cell is approximately the same size as the 675.

A gap of about 0.240" (nearly 1/4 inch) exists when the smaller cells are
placed in the battery compartment of the Hi-Matic E and F cameras. No
electrical contact.

So, some sort of conductive (aluminum, brass, steel, etc) spacers will have
to be used to fill the gaps in the Minolta Hi-Matic E and F battery
compartments.

You need two cells to operate these cameras, so you need two spacers..

Roland F. Harriston.



From minolta MF mailing list:
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:31:32 -0000
   From: "Frank Mueller" 
Subject: Re: Using Silver oxide- Change ASA?

--- In Minolta@y..., "everglades_mike"  wrote:
> Thanks Greg,
> I read about one-fourth of the way down on that link and hit upon a
> place in Canada to get my batteries for $4.50 each and it says that
> purchasing the Mercury batteries and having them shipped to the US
> for personal use is NOT ILLEGAL...Is this true?
> Mike

Don't know, but it almost doesn't matter anymore, because I bet you
won't be able to get these batteries if you contact the guys in
Canada.  6 months ago - yes, 3 months ago - maybe, today - nope.

PX-625 mercury batteries have finally been discontinued worldwide.  I
checked here in Australia, I checked in Germany, and I asked a friend
in Canada - they are gone.

OK, the guys at www.px625.com seem to have stashed some away, there
might be minor supplies in some hidden store in the woods, and there
are certainly some in my fridge, but that's about it.

Time to think about alternatives:

http://www.rolleiclub.nl/batt-adapt-US.pdf

http://www.pcisys.net/~rlsnpjs/minolta/minolta.html

Cheers

Frank


From manual SLR mailing list:
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 
From: "Frank Vincent" faxonpr@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [SLRMan] Spotmatic battery substitute


Allan,

I did not know that the batteries were different.  I am fortunate to have
the Spotmatic F, the Cannonet G33, and even my Himatic E use the same
battery, the PX625, and both have been converted by my repairman to take
modern batteries.  I do not use these cameras a lot, because I am a
part-time amature photographer, and I use my Medalist more often that the
35's, so I rely on my Luna-Pro SBC most of the time.  Still, I don't have a
problem with the batteries going bad too soon.

You probably have looked at the following site already, but just in case,
here it is:

http://212.187.14.19/battery.htm

Even though you may get a battery to work, you may find that the metering
capability has deteriorated, and may be unreliable in one or two places, but
you can check that by running your own tests.  Of course, I have an Alpa
Si2000 that takes modern batteries but meters all over the place depending
on the light, etc.  I used to think it was just my skill deteriorating when
it was my only slr.  I don't even use this camera now.

Good luck.
...


From manual SLR mailing list:
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 
From: Allan Ostling aostling@aaahawk.com
Subject: RE: Spotmatic battery substitute


Thanks, R.C.,

I didn't know about this site. I see their solution is to sell a $30
replacement battery cover, which allows the use of a silver-oxide 377
battery -- there may be circuitry in the cover.

Currently I am using a 394 silver-oxide battery, in a special insulating
collar. This is intended as a watch battery. The pawnshop owner who sold
me the camera on eBay did this substitution, and so far it is working
like a charm. The Spotmatic meter reads the same as my handheld Gossens
Digisix. It remains to be seen how long this 394 battery will last in
this application.

Allan Ostling



Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 
From: Martin Melzer martin.melzer@gmx.de
To: speleonics speleonics@altadena.net
Subject: [Speleonics] AA battery test

Hi all,

the german magazine c't (www.heise.de/ct) has just published an interesting
battery test in its current (23/02) issue. For those of you who haven't
read it, I'll give a short summary here.

c't measured the performance of 27 alkaline AA cells with a professional
battery tester (http://www.basytec.de/index_e.html). The cells were mostly
Varta, Duracell, Energizer or OEM versions of those (from Penny, Marktkauf,
Lidl etc.). Two measurements were made: A low-current discharge .15A down
to .9V and a pulsed high current discharge with 1A/15s, .1A/45s also down
to .9V. Here are some of the results: Cell price in Euro (E), capacity in
Ah, energy cost in Euro/Ah (EA).


Duracell plus 1.5E Lo 2Ah 425EA, Hi .7Ah 1788EA
Duracell ultra M3 1.75E Lo 2Ah 716EA, Hi .94Ah 1548EA
Energizer titanium 1.75E Lo 2.1Ah 697EA Hi .7Ah 2107EA
Ikea alkaline (Varta OEM) .22E Lo 1.9Ah 98EA Hi .77Ah 238EA
Varta High Energy 1.12E Lo 2Ah 665EA Hi .8Ah 1193EA


Zinc carbon .6E Lo .55Ah 912EA Hi .07Ah 7143EA
Energizer Lithium 1.5V 3.5E Lo 2.3Ah 1278EA Hi 2.2Ah 1329EA
(the last two are not alkaline cells - just for comparison).

Interesting point #1 is that all alkaline cells, even the cheapest
supermarket brands, have 2Ah in the low current mode. Ikea is the real king
here with 98 Euro/Ah, compared to 716 Euro/Ah (Duracell ultra). This means
that for anything running 10 hours or longer on a set of batteries, you can
safely get them from Ikea or any other supermarket.

The high current test is more interesting. This situation gets relevant if
you use the batteries in a high power flashlight or flash gun. Here the
advantage of the low impedance ultra M3 gives a higher capacity of almost
1Ah. But still, from the point of energy cost, Ikea is impossible to beat.
And the two non-alkalines: Zinc carbon batteries are a total waste of
money. The rather expensive Li cells perfomed very well in the high current
test - they have twice the capacity of the high performance alkaline
batteries. Energy cost is even slightly lower in this case.


- Martin


From leica topica mailing list:
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 
From: Nathan Wajsman wajsman@webshuttle.ch
Subject: Re: V625px for leica m5, cl etc.. source found


Clint,

Be sure to check these batteries in some controlled way. I use PX625s in
my Leicaflex SL and Rollei 35, and when I was having my Rollei 35 CLA'd
at a local repair shop, the owner told me (and showed me with his meter)
that a lot of the Chinese, no-brand PX625s out there now are fakes, not
real mercury batteries. I have a stash of the genuine Varta article, but
when that runs out, I will use the CRIS adapter instead of dodgy
"mercury" batteries.

Nathan
End of Page

Broken Links:

was at http://buttononline.heha.net

Button Online Batteries for PX625, LR44, PX675... [07/2000]

was at http://annie.wellesley.edu/lhawkins/photo/camrep.faq

Camera Repair FAQ

was at http://arnhem.telekabel.nl/~pjonkman/battery.htm

Canadian Quality Concepts ($4 mercury batteries..)

was at http://www2.wave.co.nz/~vipclub/tech_data/lvl2_4.html

New Zealand Battery Source

was at http://www.jps.net/hfleenor/r35-batt.htm

Rollei 35 series Batteries by Harry Fleenor [12/2000]

was at http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/HTML/FAQ/BODY/F_Battery_info.html

Nicad and NIMH Battery Guide