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Ask K5: New job, new city (Op-Ed)

By frijolito
Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 04:33:30 PM EST

Help! (Ask Kuro5hin)

All right, pop quiz. Guatemala City. Nerd with boring job. Social order is deteriorating; you're almost at your wit's end. What do you do? What do you do?


As many of my tourist friends might wonder, so may the astute K5 reader ask himself: why would anyone look to leave such a pleasant, colorful, visually stunning country? Well, I don't anticipate you'd be very surprised to hear the social order is quite rapidly deteriorating. For instance, just this week my father got his first death threat over the phone, and was forced to deposit Q10,000 in a bank account just to keep his family safe. It makes little sense to report this to the police, since if the sad bastards are indeed caught and punished, they will most assuredly seek revenge. Not the best of ideas.

What's more, just the other week I was walking by myself to get lunch at a restaurant a few blocks away from work, which is in the city's Centro Histórico -- the Old Downtown. On the sidewalk, near Central Market, I got a literal kick in the ass! This man, who must have under the influence of something, was gesturing wildly at me and trying to provoke me into a fight... but he wasn't alone. As usual, there wasn't a cop to be found, so I went back to my office building to fetch an armed security guard; when we got back to them they had left in a bus, people said.

There's also the fantasy I've had most of my life of living in another city; a more civilized one, safer, with easier --cheaper-- access to technology. Even if just for a short season. Finally, let's not forget Stan, and how it showed how terribly unprepared and in such a precarious situation a poor country like mine can be.

My current field of work is IT, and I have a comp sci degree/BS from a highly reputed university in the region. However, during college I worked as an ESL teacher at Guatemala's then finest English-teaching institution for about 4 years, an experience I still miss. As a job, I enjoyed it far more than being in charge of the IT department at a medium-sized government institution, my current gig.

So, what does K5 recommend? I've been thinking a bit about Canada, particularly because of the many relatives of mine there and the general mindset of its people -- but the cold is a bit off-putting. Lately I've been looking at ESL teaching in Asia, with Japan sounding especially enticing -- Thailand's also looking pretty good. What I'm thinking of is doing this thing for a year or three, and possibly even permanently if it's a good enough deal.

The place I'd like to hit would ideally reunite a few conditions: First, it'd have to be more or less immigrant (Latin American) friendly. I guess that pretty much rules out the US for me. Then there's the violence thing: I'm taking a break from insecurity, so crime rates would have to be lower than Guatemala City's -- a requisite I imaigne won't be too hard to comply with. Of course, its immigrant work policies would have to be a somewhat friendly... or at least easily circumvented. Also, I'd like it if people's asses don't freeze off most of the months of the year. I'm not a big fan of cold climates. Cute girls (nsfw?) who are into Latino guys: a big plus. The destination would ideally be civilized and technologically hip. Finally, it would definitely not hurt if there were no draconian laws on cannabis consumption.

Hopefully this wishlist isn't too unrealistic. But if I'm only doing this once, I'm going for all the marbles. And, hey, I won't mind not getting rich, as I'm perfectly willing to teach English --which I'm very fluent in and can bullshit a decent native speaker (American) accent-- or Spanish. That said, I'm also a decent Linux geek, and if I can land something where I'll get a nicer paycheck than teaching, well, even better.

And, why not say it, there are a few things I've got going for me: One, the University degree. I believe that my alma mater is highly regarded in certain circles worldwide, and my curriculum did not look too shabby compared to the ones of other famous unis I've looked at on the nets. Two, my Linux skills. Particularly my experience with web programming and internet stuff. Three, my joy of teaching, plus the English-teaching experience -- and a couple of semesters heading a course at my old faculty. If I may say so, I think I'm a quite competent ESL speaker, and while not the bright-eyed, fresh-off-the-boat idealist, teaching is actually an activity I find (mostly) fun and stimulating... as opposed to the computer janitor business. There's also my youth, 27, and the few languages I know -- Spanish (native), English (fluent), German (basic), French (beginner).

I'd really love to hear some of your own experiences, particularly if you've tried something similar. I'll also welcome general advice, especially if you live in a city that sounds a bit like what I'm looking for.

Muchas gracias, mis camaradas kuro5hineros. Espero con ansia sus comentarios.

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Poll
The poll creativedissonance didn't post:
o Yes, let's get that new poll submitting feature. 86%
o Nah. 13%

Votes: 15
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Kuro5hin
o quite
o rapidly
o deteriorating
o Centro Histórico
o Stan
o university
o ESL
o institution
o girls
o cannabis
o More on Help! (Ask Kuro5hin)
o Also by frijolito


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Ask K5: New job, new city | 110 comments (100 topical, 10 editorial, 1 hidden)
Guatemala needs us ! (none / 0) (#109)
by davidsalgado on Fri Oct 21st, 2005 at 09:12:23 PM EST

Frijolito, for starters, i'm a non-native speaker, so please forgive my bad english. Frijolito, Guatemala needs people like us, needs people like you ! If you go away, a piece of our future is going with you ! We have to "repair" this country, because us, guatemalans, centralamericans, deserve a better future, but we have to figth for it ! I'll stay in this pretty country, i will help to build a better future for my kids (which i don't have yet), for my loved ones ! I'll stay in this country because i want to set an example to the world ! Things have to change in this country and "somebody" has to do it ! U.S.A., Canada, EU they are the countries that helps us now, because years back, their citizens believed in their countries, they forced their governments to do better, they educated their children to aim higher ! Guatemala and Central America "can" change and is up to "us" ! Saludos a todos los guatemaltecos y centro americanos que leamos esto y recordemos que el futuro es el resultado de lo que decidimos y hacemos hoy !!

Just look up some college towns (none / 0) (#107)
by xmnemonic on Fri Oct 21st, 2005 at 08:25:36 PM EST

Ann Arbor, Toronto, Charlottesville, Austin etc. They're some of the more culturally and economically progressive areas in the world. Tech, girls and friendliness to minorities flourish in university communities.

North Dakota, USA (none / 0) (#99)
by The Rizz on Wed Oct 19th, 2005 at 02:33:54 PM EST

I could suggest considering North Dakota as a place to live (if you think you can put up with cold winters). We have one of the lowest crime rates in the nation, and a very low cost of living. As an added bonus, I have never seen a live cockroach in the state. We just don't seem to have them here.

As for which cities to live in, I would suggest Bismarck/Mandan, Fargo/West Fargo/Moorhead, or Grand Forks/East Grand Forks.

  • Bismarck is a very nice town, especially if you want to raise a family, but has very little in the way of a night life. Bismarck was also rated the least stressful city in the nation.
  • Fargo is a larger city, and has a better job market than Bismarck - however, the cost of living there is higher. It does have a nightlife, due to the three fairly large colleges in town. It is, however, the ugliest city in the state (IMHO).
  • Grand Forks is still recovering from the flood of a few years ago, but is a very nice town with a large college and a decent job market.
We also have excellent fishing, hunting, hiking, etc. if you're an outdoorsy type.

For more information on available jobs, check the Job Service ND website

Comments from a Guatemalan (none / 0) (#98)
by maquina on Wed Oct 19th, 2005 at 01:53:38 PM EST
(maquina at hushmail.com) http://director.chessmasters.com/maquina

I have to say that I definitely can relate to the situation you are currently experiencing in Guatemala. I lived in southern USA for the best part of 4 years while getting my BS in CS. Then I came to Guatemala and landed a Telecom job (in which I have been for the past year). Getting used to living again in Guatemala was somewhat difficult. I dont know if people in the US realize this, but the violence issue is a big one in here. 3 different people from my close circle of friends have been mugged in the past year, including me. Poverty can also be pretty severe in some circles. Leaving Guatemala does seem like a pretty good option. It almost seems that we are in the same position.

However, when thinking about leaving Guatemala, I think there are a couple of things that you should consider. First of all, in Guatemala, you are a big fish in a small pond. You can land pretty important jobs without having much experience (due to the lack of skilled people). Second, Guatemala really needs you, in Guatemala you can really make a difference. I was tempted to also list the girls here, however, I dont think we fare very well in that department. :)

Anyhow, if you still choose to leave, good luck, and hope to have you back sometime. And if it serves as some sort of advice, some friends of mine have left to France recently, to teach Spanish of all things.

Heh, yay por Guatemala siendo representada en kuro5hin, por mucho tiempo pense que era el unico :)

Canada Run Down (none / 0) (#92)
by midgetwaiter on Wed Oct 19th, 2005 at 05:13:58 AM EST

I grew up in Alberta but have lived a few other places.

I lived in Edmonton until I was 18 and then for a few years later as well.  It is not the most exciting city by any means but it's reasonably prosperous.  You wouldn't have much trouble getting work or finding ways to spend your free time there.  There isn't much culture or flavour to the city really, it's more or less a generic North American city.  I'm going back in a few years when my girfriend transfers universities.  I'm not thrilled about the prospect but not really upset or anything either.

I live in Calgary now and have been here for 6 years.  It's a much more cosmopolitan kind of place, much more multi-cultural as well.  There are many more immigrants here and much of the workforce is people from other parts of Canada.  There is stupid amounts of money flowing around because it is so strong in the oil sector right now, you shouldn't have any trouble finding IT work.  Housing is crazy but becuase of it the rental market is pretty decent.  There's lots of clubs here if that's your thing but there is also lots of other things to do as well.

Both Edmonton and Calgary are some of the largest cities in the world in term of land area, suburbs as far as the eye can see.  In Edmonton you will need a vehicle to get around, the transit system is weak.  Calgary is better in that regard but not great.  The cold thing would take a bit of getting used to.  Edmonton is colder than Calgary on average but both cities are mostly bearable outside of a couple of weeks a year, then it gets ugly.  I used to work with a woman from Columbia she didn't have too much trouble adjusting.

Vancouver is a neat place, very unique.  Others have commented on all the great things about it.  There was one thing that I couldn't handle and that was the winters.  It's not cold but it is cloudy for weeks on end.  You could go a month without a sunny day, I hated that.

Montreal is a fantasic city.  You don't need much french to get by but it does help.  It's also a very multicultral type of place and there is a ton of stuff to do.  I loved it there, easy to get around and a fun city to just go exploring in.  This city gets cold though, there is so much more humidity in the air that when it gets cold and windy you realy feel it.  I also found the summers to be nasty because of the hummidity but I doubt you'd have any problems with that.

One other thing to think about though, I've picked up and moved to a place where I didn't know anybody before, it sucks.  I'm pretty social but  don't make friends really fast so for me the first six months where pretty difficult.  You don't always want to hang out with people you work sith.  In that respect moving somewhere where you have family, especially cousins around your age would be a good thing.

Recife, Brazil (none / 0) (#87)
by chiraz on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 09:20:43 PM EST

As stated before as a possibility... I work there myself and it's really great. No nonsense all-glass hi-tech buildings, restaurants spread throughout regular buildings, plenty of growth and training opportunities and quite a few speak very acceptable English. The IT region here is called "Porto Digital". Not just companies enjoying tax-breaks actually. About 70-80 companies now with 2000 employees against about, I don't know, must've been 50-100 round 10 years ago. As for Recife, not the most secure part of Brazil (there are better), but it's 8 S, has sun year round and there are frequent opportunities for Spanish speakers.

Vancouver (none / 0) (#86)
by Markusd on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 08:51:13 PM EST

Mild weather (warmest place to be in Canada for most of the year), you can consume cannabis pretty much where ever you like, very multicultural, lots of jobs for ESL teachers (we have tons of international students) or IT, low violent crime rates...

Australia rocks (2.00 / 2) (#81)
by Fuzzwah on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 07:39:55 PM EST
(fuzzy phat fuzzyslogic spot com) http://www.fuzzyslogic.com

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/as.html

All the ups of the US with out annoying Americans :)

--
..the absurd meta-wankery of k5er-quoting sigs probably takes the cake. - tsubame

Some suggestions - China (none / 0) (#76)
by coljac on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 05:49:14 PM EST
(coljac(@)thisbitisjunk.coljac.net) http://www.coljac.net

Interesting article, actually. It's cool to get a glimpse into the lives of my fellow kurons. We both use Linux, but only you have to deal with extortionist goon squads. I have to deal with Vegemite sandwiches...

China is a pretty cool place to visit right now. There's a high demand for English teachers, the big cities are technicially modern, and the food is great. Plus there's plenty of culture shock to go around. Although it's not strictly required to teach English in Asia, if you're serious I'd recommend that you acquire a TESL/TEFOL qualification if you can. I don't know anything about it, but being Guatemalan, you might get a less enthusiastic response than a USian/Brit/Aussie/Canadian might in some places.

You might want to consider Australia or New Zealand as well. (Well, maybe not New Zealand.) The social order is intact, there's a points-based immigration system you ought to do well at, and the tech sector is doing very well. The climate is great. Although we suck up to the U.S. at every opportunity, we aren't quite as bad yet.

Good luck, keep us posted.

---
You might think that the favorite plant of the porcupine is the cactus, but it's thinking like that that has almost ruined this country. - Jack Handey

Be Careful of Japan (none / 1) (#70)
by adavies42 on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 03:04:05 PM EST

My only advice would be to do a little research on Japan before considering it seriously. Not to put too fine a point on it, but how brown are you? The Japanese are some of the most racist people in the world--the only foreigners that get any respect at all are Anglos. If you can pass for white American, you should be fine, but if you're likely to be taken for a black, you should stay the hell away.

Got just the job for you (2.50 / 4) (#69)
by xmedar on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 02:08:40 PM EST

Here

USE LINUX (1.33 / 3) (#61)
by regeya on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 02:27:42 AM EST
(regeya is at earthlink) http://home.earthlink.net/~regeya


[ random rambling | kuro5hin diary ]

Move to Brazil (3.00 / 2) (#57)
by cbraga on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 11:17:20 PM EST

First off, we speak Portuguese here, which you probably knew already, so it's a new language for you to learn but on the other hand if you speak Spanish it'll be very easy to accomplish.

While there are a couple places where violence is a problem (Rio de Janeiro comes to mind) most of the country is actually quite pacific. If you stay out of RJ you probably won't ever be afraid to walk through downtown of any city at night. You won't have to worry about freezing your ass either.  

And here's a tip for you: highly qualified technical people are in shortage in both Manaus and Recife. Manaus has bundles of high tech factories which went there largely due to tax incentives. The only catch is, it's in the middle of the jungle. Literally, the only way in or out is either by boat or by plane. Recife OTOH is a tourist town which is only recently experiencing an influx of high tech companies (again due to tax breaks) so it's a "normal" city, and a very beautiful one too.

If you're into more temperate climates then the south of Brazil is appealing. In the summer temperatures in the three southern states reach 30 C or so but in the winter they rarely drop below 10 C. This portion of the country is also highly developed technologically and you probably wouldn't be long without a job. If I were to choose, I'd move to Florianopolis, which has the advantadge of being by the ocean and therefore close to countless beaches. The immigration to the south was mostly european so that comprises most of the gene stock around here. Actually many small cities closely resemble old european towns.

Wikipedia has lots more information too.

ESC[78;89;13p ESC[110;121;13p

Don't come to Taiwan (3.00 / 2) (#44)
by nostalgiphile on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 09:00:49 PM EST
(um_zei#yahoo.com) http://leakypen.blogspot.com

We have enough "teachers" who come here to play with the ladies and get stoned, plus I doubt you'd ever learn enough Chinese to not be a pain in the ass to everyone.

In Thailand they might tolerate you cuz they're used to that sorta thing, but you're not gonna make enough to save and you will most likely go home with the clap in a cpl months. In Japan you might find what you're looking for (chicks and dope and an ESL job), but I doubt you'll be able to get around without some basic nipponese (yep, it's a difficult language btw).

Given all of the above, it looks like you oughta go to The Philipines. You're a Spanish speaker, there're lotsa inexpensive hookers and primo weed from what I'm told, and you might actually be able to make a contribution to their society. Good luck.

"Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them." -- Paul Valery
my advice (3.00 / 3) (#40)
by CAIMLAS on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 07:31:58 PM EST
http://benjamin.hodgens.net

It does seem like your requirements are a bit strict and untenable, but here's the 'advice' I'd offer.

First off, protect yourself! I don't know what the laws are where you are concerning firearm posession, but I say get a gun regardless. Yes, I'm a red-blooded American. It doesn't matter. The reason that things like death threats and extortion are occuring is because the prey is easy. If your dad had just said, "Come and try it, motherfucker," with the knowledge in the back of his head that he could arm his family members, he would be safer. Of course, local laws greatly impact this outcome; here in the US it isn't really an issue.

Failing that... well.

I don't know how the US fares when it comes to the immigration of skilled Central American workers. You'd have to look into it, and I wouldn't personally accept what I hear on the news; chances are its probably disinformation anyway. There are some very pleasant areas in the US, and you'd have the rights of a citizen instead of a subject.

Also, the political atmosphere of the US is very turmoltuous right now: I personally think that things like cannibis will be legal within too many years here.

I've got a friend in British Columbia, CA, where the crime rate is pretty low, and he says around 50F throughout the winter, on average. You'd not freeze your ass off, but it might be a bit cool to get used to at first - and the summers wouldn't be as hot.

Now, this might be more pertinent to you: my uncle  was a spoken English teacher in Japan for about 9 years. He never finished his college degree, but he's a very intelligent person. He writes well and has very good spoken English and accent (it being his native language, and all). My understanding is that Japan mainly looks for people with native American accents and cultural understanding, as they want people that can speak "American English". In other words, native speakers. The situation may have changed in the last couple years, though.
-- Liberalism: I will defend your right to freedom of speech to my death, unless it conflicts with my own ideals (e.g. fundamentalists).

Toronto (3.00 / 3) (#30)
by actmodern on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 12:57:07 PM EST
(actmodern@gmail.com)

Most multicutural city in North America. We're more multicultural than New York. It's October and no snow yet but we expect some next month and it will probably last into March.

Also there is a vibrant telecommunication and financial district here. Jobs are easy to find if you look for them.


--
yesterday i woke up sucking on a lemon

Latin-friendly (3.00 / 4) (#21)
by Sgt York on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 12:32:20 PM EST
(sgt_york@hotmail.com)

Don't rule out the US; contrary to popular belief, many cities are very Latin-friendly, at least here in Texas.

In San Antonio, Latins nearly outnumber whites (They may actualy outnumber, but I'm not sure), and just about everybody speaks at least some Spanish, with many being fluent. Most people toss in Spanish words in conversation, it's pretty much been integrated. Houston is good, too. I live there, and most people really don't care if you're Latin or not; you just have to get used to being referred to as "Hispanic" or "Mexican", evene though very few are actually from Mexico.

You'd have to deal with the altered Latin culture, though. It's kind of an offshoot, various types mixed together and left to simmer for a few generations. Imagine a hodgepodge of the traditions and attitudes of Honduras, Costa Rica, Mexico, and Guatemala tossed in together. Most direct immgrants from Central America say it has an echo of what they are used to, but just enough to make it kind of weird.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

Vancouver? (3.00 / 3) (#17)
by kansur on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 12:02:01 PM EST

It's not that cold, really.

Everyone's afraid to be the first to step into heaven.

colder climates (3.00 / 3) (#11)
by dimaq on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 10:20:54 AM EST
(nobody@dev.null.org)

don't discard colder climates... surely it's cold, and "girls" are said to be "cold" and I really have no clue what they think of hispanic boys, but if you can dance hispanic dances, you can have them by boatloads. so I hear.

all i know is (2.66 / 6) (#10)
by circletimessquare on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 10:19:50 AM EST
(at gmail dot com)

i dated this one guatamalan chick once with really great tits

i only think of her now because when i dated her, i saw that zorro movie with banderas with her, and now they have posters for zorro 2 all over new york, so i'm always reminded of her

but to get to your predicament, as someone currently dating a filipina, i am very familiar with the concept of all the smart people fleeing a poor country

to the detriment of said small country

so i say stick it out

seriously, your homeland needs you

plus, i know filipinos with terrible career changes from coming to the usa: one guy was a bank manager in the phil, now he's a janitor! another guy was a videographer, now he works at dunkin donuts!

of course, they are making more money doing that than they were back home, but that's not the point, at least to me it's not the point

so why leave guatemala, where in a few years you can probably run the entire IT department of a major organization, to much social prestige and local admiration, when if you go to germany or the usa, you'll probably be coding web pages in a cubicle for more money, but as a complete nobody nobody cares about?

más, es una vergüenza salir de un país que criaría a mujeres con tales pechos fantásticos


He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence.
- William Blake


immigrant (Latin American) friendly (3.00 / 3) (#7)
by wiredog on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 08:47:48 AM EST
(my username at gmail dot com)

The US is certainly that, if you're a legal immigrant. Having a degree, being an IT guy, and being fluent in English are major advantages here.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

From experience... (3.00 / 3) (#5)
by codejack on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 08:14:45 AM EST
http://www.digitalo.com/vrml/cowtip.html

The only place I can recommend is the southeastern U.S.: While not perfect for any of your requirements (except not freezing your ass off), it does partially meet all of them.

While there are racist bastards in the U.S., in "The South", as we refer to it, most people are too polite to do anything about it, or even mention it, and fluency in English is a big help.

Crime rates are somewhat higher than the rest of the country, but if you subtract domestic violence, they are actually much lower.

And then there are the girls. We have the best looking girls, if not in the world, than at least in the hemisphere. Seriously.

The cannabis consumption thing, to me, is the biggest turn off, although the laws are not very well enforced. Basically, you have to quit using for a month or two before changing jobs, and keep a relatively low profile as far as buying/using. Renting a house or duplex rather than an apartment is a good idea, also. Selling can get you into trouble, but I would guess that that is beyond the scope of your concern.


Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors, and miss.
-- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"
ESL teaching in Japan... (3.00 / 3) (#4)
by BJH on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 06:29:31 AM EST

...generally requires an appropriate degree these days (i.e. linguistics/education/literature or similar).
You'd probably have an easier time of it getting an IT job here.

Come to Spain (3.00 / 4) (#3)
by bml on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 05:14:23 AM EST
(bml dot k5mail at gmail)

I think we fulfill all or most of the requirements in your wish list. And it's much warmer than Canada.

The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey
Ask K5: New job, new city | 110 comments (100 topical, 10 editorial, 1 hidden)
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