Talk:Stanisław Lem

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Good article Stanisław Lem has been listed as a good article under the good-article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a review.
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[edit] Random uncategorized comments

This article is awful! It contains very little information, is riddled with typoes (the authors are obviously non-native writers of English) and bizarre contusions of syntax. I tried a little grammatical patching on the first couple paragraphs but then threw my hands up in despair. It needs to be largely rewqritten. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a soapbox! funkendub

He is probably the best single science fiction author of the late 20th century not to write in English.

...apart from Yevgeny Zamyatin, author of the distopian We... sjc

Zamyatin is early 20th century. Burschik

Could someone speaking the langauge replace the original titles? --Yooden

look here. hm...

If we're heading into opinionated territory then I'd have to say that IMO he's probably the single best science fiction author full stop. I've never read anything in SF to match the cyberiad for imagination and literary inventiveness. -MockAE

...except Solaris, Futurological Congress, the Pirx stories, Fiasco, and greatest of all, the Perfect Vacuum (which is, admittedly, no SF)

Best Polish author ever (sorry, Senkevich), and, one of the best and most brilliant writers of the XXth century. We should not be sad that he died, but we should rejoice because he lived. May he rest in peace. Ko Soi IX 01:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sentence removed

Many people consider his treatment of the ideal society issue the most thorough and insightful of all similar attempts in science fiction.

I am removing this sentence because of its imprecision and lack of citations. Can we cite literary critics who have written this about Lem? My rewrite is basically for removing unidiomatic English and other oddities of the text. --Fred 20:51, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I've removed a swipe at Douglas Adams, which seemed inappropriate and unnecessary. Perhaps the person who feels that the Hitchhiker's Guide series is unintelligent humor simply missed some of the subtler jokes? -- metamatic 20040802T054800Z

Weeeell - I could argue with you here a lot, but since I tend to get too sarcastic or rude, just let me paste a sentence from http://world.std.com/~mmcirvin/cyberiad.html#adams :

The difference is one of degree in tone and intent. Lem often (not always) has a serious point to make which determines the direction of the story. With Adams, at least in the early, funny books in the Hitch-hiker's Guide series, the fabulistic content (and it is there, in such passages as the famous one about the Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything) is strictly secondary to getting the joke told. I don't think that either approach is inherently superior to the other, but when I write humor, my method is closer to Adams'; it's very hard to make humor serious without killing it. Somehow, Lem pulls it off. 160.83.64.93

Please sign your edits in future. (Use ~~~~.) I've done the above for you. grendel|khan 14:30, 2005 Mar 29 (UTC)

[edit] Lem and American pulp fiction

I removed the clumsy phrase on this issue. From personal experience I must say that Soviet and Socialist censorship was two-pronged. From one hand, only "politically correct" books were translated. From the other hand the enormous flood of Americal pulp was filtered out as well. My personal respect to Clifford Simak was significantly shattered when I finally had a chance to read everything he wrote. So I believe if Lem had chance to see the whole US sci-fi, then he wouldn't accept the American association membership in the first place altogether. Mikkalai

[edit] Victim of the Brain

Under "Film and TV adaptations" the article mentions "Victim of the Brain" by Piet Hoenderdos. (Well actually it spelled 'Hoenderos' but I've corrected that.) I'm not a Lem-expert, but I doubt "Victim of the Brain" is a adaptation of a book by Lem. In fact it is a semi-documentary about Douglas Hofstadter. Muijz 16:33, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV Question

Isn't saying that his work has been "translated brilliantly into English" PoV? Shouldn't the views of critics who consider the translations brilliant be cited? I know at least some readers have not approved them, although most do, I think. DES 05:36, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, would it be humble enough if I say this ;-) : personaly I find English as not very rich and rather dull language. Reading the original Polish version and English translation it really makes me think, the translator must be a "Wizard of words".

Kandel's translations are breathtaking, especially The Cyberiad. If you want some quotable plaudits, there are several in Douglas R. Hofstadter's Le Ton Beau de Marot, a book about (among other things) the difficulty of translation. Phr 16:32, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category

Is the category "science fiction writer" really redundant with "polish science fiction writer"? If the more inclusive category is removed, won't someone goign to that category fail to see Lem in the lists provided? DES 15:22, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think I will restore the more general category if no one posts an objection shortly. DES 15:32, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kandel's translations perfect?

Kandel's translations are as close as they can be, giving the English language's inability to express many small/less important details of "language sphere" (if speak English you've learned Spanish/French/German/whatever you know what I mean - try expressing "j'etais" in English). It's clear that Kandel does understand the original (don't be surprised with this sentence, not all translators do), and he must have put a lot of effort into trying to recreate the feeling of the original prose. The originals are sometimes quite demanding in the language sense. Lem plays with words very well.

[edit] Religious upbringing

I don't think he grew up Catholic, but I'm not certain enough to remove it. If anybody should have Highcastle at hand... 4.255.35.185 10:41, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish ethnicity

Actually - he had some Jewish roots, i believe that his uncle was killed by German Nazis. But that didn't make him an ethnic Jew, rather of Jewish ancestry (i have no idea if that ancestry came from mother's or father's side).

Both of his parents were Jewish - ethnically. But Lem was raised Catholic. JackO'Lantern 07:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks - i'll skim through Highcastle (autobiography) as soon as I have a moment to find a mention.

---Is it a taboo that Lem was ethnically Jewish? You keep removing references to this fact, while his "having been raised Catholic", which is completely unsupported by his own interviews, is tenaciously left in main text. Here's what he says in an interview:

"During that period, I learned in a very personal, practical way that I was no “Aryan”. I knew that my ancestors were Jews, but I knew nothing of the Mosaic faith and, regrettably, nothing at all of Jewish culture. So it was, strictly speaking, only the Nazi legislation that brought home to me the realization that I had Jewish blood in my veins. We succeeded in evading imprisonment in the ghetto, however. With false papers, my parents and I survived that ordeal." http://cse.ucdavis.edu/~chaos/courses/ncaso/Readings/Lem_CAO_NY1984.html

What's the point to falsify documents if they read "Roman Catholic"? Well, I guess this is a taboo topic after all...

Dear anon. It is not a taboo, we just need a reference for such claims; now that you have provided it I don't expect anybody will question it.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  03:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lem and Soderbergh

The article claims Lem fully rejects Soderbergh's adaptation of Solaris, and has no intention to see it. However, on the imdb page for this movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307479/usercomments , under rhe heading "Lem speaks" and credited to www.lem.pl) there is a comment on Solaris, supposedly signed by Lem, and while not entirely positive, not at all negative either.

quote:This statement comes from the official site www.lem.pl:
It is difficult to compare a book - a few hundred pages of text written almost half a century ago - with a technologically advanced motion picture created by hundreds of people, taking advantage of the state of the art film and computer technology. Soderbergh's artistic vision is well thought out and consistent, however it seems detached from the original. The director exposed Chris' and Harey's tragic love - hence the emotional element strongly dominates the intellectual one, while the Solarian Ocean is the Great Absent One. The film's unique climate captivates the audience; the lighting, the coloring, shots, music, actors' performance, sparse use of special effects and clear narration - create an exceptional, surprising and truly innovative work. Soderbergh's movie belongs to the category of ambitious, artistic cinema - difficult to crack for the mass audience used to Hollywood pap. Stanislaw Lem February 6, 2003

if this is indeed mr. Lem's view on the film, than the article is clearly in the wrong.213.172.254.120 01:21, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Praising Dick?

Well, I may be oversensitive to sarcasm, but the part of Lem's work, where he "praises" Dick, calling his works "intentional kitsch" is just it - SARCASM. Maybe the translation (into whatever language) was poor, but I've read this in Polish, and would NEVER think that he praises Dick...

He didn't like Dick much at first, but changed his mind after reading some more of his books. Ausir 16:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
I actually started reading Dick after I read positive things about him in the German translation of Lem's Fantastyka i futurologia. Lem might have used sarcasm but he did like Dick's works. Kusma (討論) 16:15, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
He called it kitsch in the first edition of Fantastyka i futurologia but then changed his mind in the second edition. Ausir 16:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Borges

Shouldn't we mention Jorge Luis Borges as an important influence, especially on Imaginary Magnitude? - Jmabel | Talk 08:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Critical Writings of Lem

At the DePauw University science fiction website, one can find science fiction criticsm by Lem. And from this it is also clear that he thought highly of the writing of Philip K. Dick

[edit] non sequitor

Can someone find a reference for this and stick it back in:

Interesting fact is that Philip K. Dick was convinced that Lem is not a surname of human individual but the cryptonym group of scientists, philosophers and writers of called by Russian KGB. He couln't believe that one person can have such a deep knowledge in so many topics and disciplines, and moreover is able to use different styles of writing. It is no wonder his books made impression on his readers - IQ tests run done in 1936-37 on Polish middle school students revealed Lem to be the most intelligent child in Poland with result equal to 180.

There is a copy of a letter that Dick wrote to the FBI [1]. But as the caveat on that page suggests, it is helpful to remember that Dick was very likely suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. Bornyesterday 17:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
"IQ tests run done in 1936-37 on Polish middle school students revealed Lem to be the most intelligent child in Poland with result equal to 180."
I remember reading an article by Rafał Ziemkiewicz, a Polish SF and mainstream writer in which he said Lem had been found to be the most intelligent child in southern Poland. Not that it makes such a big difference... Dawidbernard 19:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tichy naive?

The article claims that Ijon Tichy is naive. Actually, he seems to be a variation on the Baron Munchhausen theme, telling tall stories all the way long. '-129.247.247.238 14:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)'

[edit] Trailer sentences

The trailer included the sentences: Lem articulates this recursively through the mouth of one of his characters (scientist Alfred Testa speaking about Aristid Acheropoulos' "The New Cosmogony" in Lem's Perfect Vacuum). Lem's works have been described as "deeply philosophical", and are sometimes used as textbooks for philosophy students[2]

The first sentence makes little sense in a trailer. A trailer should give an overview. The sentence corroborates a claim, but in an overly specific manner, and the wording sounds pretentious ("recursively" - I see a disguised self reference, but no recursion). The second sentence repeats information (we have already been informed that Lem's work is philosophical in nature), and it employs weasel words. The second part of the second sentence is relevant information, but it should be given at another place in the article. -- ZZ 12:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Completly agree.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Honors

I rearranged the biography. The honors get a section of their own now. Could somebody please list the honors in the way it is done in pl:Stanisław Lem? -- ZZ 09:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Done.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split of list of works?

As it is done on pl wiki or here in the FA article on Max Weber?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] error in reference

The first reference seems slightly messed – can someone look at the {{cite news}} call? Probably the internal link [[Roadside Picnic]] used in the template's title parameter prevents the external link (url) from displaying. So we need either somewhat more sophisticated {{cite news}} or use it in a simpler way. --CiaPan 10:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This is a Good Article

After review, I've decided to promote this article to Good Article status, based on the qualifications. The article was nice to read, and seems to be of a good neutral tone. I do have a few suggestions for further improvement.

  • External links, when used as a 'citation', as opposed to just 'further reading', can use the cite.php format, using the 'cite web' template, for instance (WP:CITET). Since the rest of the citations already use the cite.php format, I'd recommend standardizing the inline citations, external links and 'regular' citations, for ease of use, leaving the regular 'external links' section for further reading.
  • Consider forking the list of works to a new article. It isn't critical right now, due to the overall length of the article, but as more of the red links turn blue, consider a new article for them.
  • A small thing... Standardize the choice of "reference before or after full stop". I'd recommend going with the ".</ref>" style, as opposed to the "</ref>." style.

Thanks for everyone's hard work on this article. If you want any clarification on my reasoning for promotion, don't hesitate to leave a message on my talk page. Phidauex 21:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religious or cultural affiliation

The article has been lumped into the categories Galician Jews and Polish Jews. Lem was persecuted because of his Jewish ancestry, but does that make him a Jew? I wonder, if he was even a Jew under Halakhic law. What are the reasons for this grouping?

Anyway, the article suffers from category hypertrophy. -- Zz 12:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Polish Jews and Category:Galician Jews include persons who (or his parents) were born in Poland or Galicia (Austria-Hungary, Poland/Ukraine), and they or their ancestors had affillation with Jewish religion, ethnicity or culture. For example, count Walenty Potocki who converted to Judaism (Ger Tzedek of Vilna) there is in Category:Polish Jews.

By the way, Stanisław Lem was an atheist. -- Mibelz 16:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for answering. I know Lem was an atheist and he was raised a Catholic, while being of Jewish ancestry. Since there is a difference between being a Jew and being of Jewish ancestry, I wonder what definition is used. I could not find any such definition in the category Polish Jews. Is the definition you use generally agreed upon? -- Zz 12:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] House where Lem was born

Rumours say us that S.Lem was born on Pekarskaya-st. 34. Is that true? Here is the picture of that house. --Yonkie 10:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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