Talk:Free Grace theology

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WikiProject Christianity / Theology / Calvinism (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
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POV?[edit]

I question the POV of the characterization of the two schools of FG theology as "Traditional" and "Refined" (which is said to be the "more progressive and exegetical approach"). Sounds like an implicit slam to me. So it needs to be substantiated. What reliable source characterizes them this way? --Flex (talk/contribs) 14:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


Quotations Edit[edit]

Took out bulk of quotations in main section to improve quality of encyclopedic style. Replaced them with a summary and its citations.

Also, I wonder if the Current Issues section should be longer than the main section. Maybe main section could be enlarged slightly and current issues shortened... I also rewrote intro to Current Issues section to stress nuetrality--Johanna Sawyer

Perseverance of the saints[edit]

Is Perseverance of the saints different from FGT? Malick78 (talk) 15:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit[edit]

This article was massively, massively over-written; had numerous violations of the NPOV rule; and often read like an advert for GES. I deleted the excessive verbiage, and condensed a great deal of other material. Re my credential to do these things: I am an EFCA pastor, a theological credentialer in our denominational district, hold my B.A. from a dispensational Bible college, and my M.A. and M.Div. from Columbia International University (Columbia, SC). Jack Brooks (talk) 02:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it still has. All those lists of bible statements supporting it without secondary critical sources is like an advertisement for a certain theological view. WP is not a private scribble board for this or that POVvy theology. ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 16:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Opposition[edit]

I've essentially rewritten the Opposition section. Previous section has some major POV issues. Also, the Opposition section of an article should simply present what the opposition has to say, not how proponents would respond to the opposition. I've corrected errors in that section and removed arguments against the opposition. Those arguments might work well elsewhere in the Free Grace article, but they don't work here.

Columcille (talk) 03:21, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Minor restructuring?[edit]

Those long lists of bible citations presumedly supporting Free Grace theology don't fit the Wikipedia model of providing secondary analytical sources, but on the other hand the guys in the History section would (partially) fit as secondary analytical sources. The problematicity of the long could be remedied by using citations from guys in the History section – just a hint... ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 11:21, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I hope you don't plan to remove the citations; that would be reverted. An inclusion of secondary sources is in order, but whoever volunteers, it will take days for him/her to add a scholarly reference to each and every Bible citation. Gregorik (talk) 19:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Not reassessing at this time[edit]

Per request at WikiProject Christianity assessments, I have read the article and feel that the current rating is accurate. The introduction needs some work. Specifically, I thought it was fine until it starts talking about the Gospel of John. It's just not very clear. Also, I'm not sure whats going on with the massive Scripture references. It makes this article way too long. If there is a way to summarize this content, it should be done.Ltwin (talk) 07:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm also a WikiProject Christianity member, and I find the article fine as it is. Wikipedia has a predilection (and a unique opportunity) to include long lists in the articles to complement other sections. I think all the Free Grace article needs now is a better History section. Gregorik (talk) 10:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

POV tag[edit]

This page still has POV issues. For example, "Reformed accusations of Free Grace theology with an inherent superficiality are not necessarily valid." The key thing about this list of Bible verses is that opponents of FGT will accept these texts as well. So how do they support FGT? Who says that they constitute scriptural support? StAnselm (talk) 19:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Your own POV is all too obvious: "This user is a Calvinist or Reformed Christian." You may delete the problematic sentence, but simply adding a tag does not help. Besides, much of the list is now supported by citations. Gregorik (talk) 22:35, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Hardly. That's not what POV means at all. The fact that I'm Reformed does not mean I cannot make neutral edits to an article. StAnselm (talk) 22:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the offending sentence and the tag. The article has a decent Opposition section which makes the whole affair more or less neutral. Editors of Lordship Salvation (the counterpart of this article) are encouraged to include a list of Bible citations to match. Gregorik (talk) 16:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Well, thanks for taking out that sentence - that had to go. But I'm still not happy about this list of Bible verses, though most do have a reference to a page in Bing. Your comment seems to suggest that if we edit the Lordship Salvation article the two articles will somehow balance each other out - but each article needs to be balanced and non-neutral. Don't be fooled into thinking that this article is a place for adherents of FGT to express their views, while Lordship Salvation is for the other guys. Anyway, we're still left with a list of verses that is substituting for a reasoned argument. StAnselm (talk) 21:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I've renamed the section to the more impartial "Scripture claimed to support Free Grace". I think the two articles are supposed to balance each other out -- as a reflection of the 500 year-old debate. Gregorik (talk) 13:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

As a longtime project member, I've re-rated the article as B and Mid-importance. ᴳᴿᴲᴳᴼᴿᴵᴷ☺ᶤᶯᵈᶸᶩᶢᵉ 18:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Bible Study?[edit]

In what way are extensive bible quotes adding to this article? Do they help to understand the topic? --79.223.26.25 (talk) 23:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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