Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates

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[edit] Nominations

[edit] Portal:New York

I've been working steadily on this portal for a few weeks now, and finished it off earlier today. All articles and biographies used by this portal are of B-class or higher. Anyways, the portal currently has 20 selected articles, 17 selected biographies, 16 selected pictures, 21 selected quotes, 10 selected panoramic images and 10 did you know entries, each one displaying three facts at a time and a 'selected anniversaries' section, automatically updated for each month using {{Currentmonth}}. Much of this portal is based off Portal:Norway, which recently passed featured portal candidates. The news section is updated by Wikinews Importer Bot; thats all there is to say, really. Qst (talk) 19:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Meticulous work, very comprehensive portal - nicely done. Cirt (talk) 19:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. Attractive functional layout, with lots of good content. A map somewhere in the introduction would be useful, and some of the Selected biographies lack images. Other than that, I have only a few extremely minor nitpicks. There are several redlinks in the selected article blurbs, and a few could also do with very minor copy edits. (I'd do it myself but there's no easy edit link in the list of articles.) Topics has centred dots separating some items and commas separating others -- should be standardised, as should whether the colon is bolded or not. I'd probably move "Things you can do" down to closer to the end, and I'm not sure why one of the bullet points has bold text, while the others don't. The "Featured and good content" headers should probably either use "content" or "articles", not both. Prospect Park Selected panorama had an external link in the description. That's all I could see! Espresso Addict (talk) 20:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll give the articles a light copyedit soon. As for a couple of the selected biographies not having images, well that is because they don't have free images available. I looked on Flickr to see if I could suitable images to accompany these articles, but I couldn't find anything which met the requirement for uploading on Commons. So, to keep the selected biography number at a decent level, I had to leave a couple without a free image, but I'm sure you can understand this. Other than that, I think that is everything! :) Qst (talk) 20:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, I've copyedited a couple of the selected articles. If there are others you would like me to do, leave a note, and I'll see what I can do. Otherwise, that is all your issues addressed. Qst (talk) 20:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Gosh, that's quick! The only other thing I mentioned was the possibility of a map, somewhere in the introduction. Espresso Addict (talk) 20:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

There we go. Qst (talk) 20:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Cheers. I've done some minor copy edits to the Selected Articles & Biographies blurbs. There are a few that seemed to me to need a more expert eye -- I'll note them on the Portal talk page, to avoid cluttering this discussion with content issues. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comments Need Wikibooks and Wikiversity link at the bottom of the page. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 20:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your comment, but I've intentionally left these out. This is because in last FPOC, it seems consensus was in favour of only linking to the sister projects that actually have a page on the portal subject. I'm open to discussion on this matter, but it was my belief that this is how consensus seems to go now. Qst (talk) 20:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Err, wrong archive link. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 02:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
      • Fixed. Qst (talk) 13:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
• Comment- Please exchange the position of selected quote and featured and good articles section. rest the whole portal looks nice. thanks, Sushant gupta (talk) 10:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Wales

Self-nomination. See archived peer review and previous FPOC. Stats: (13) Selected articles, all of "B" class or higher and all have an associated free-use image, (13) Selected biographies, all of "B" class or higher and all have an associated free-use image, (11) Selected pictures, all are free-use images, (12) Selected quotes, all have links to notable individuals with articles on Wikipedia, and all have associated free-use images, (15) Did you know entries, showing 3 at a time, and (7) selected quotes shown one at a time. All of the above sections are randomised and display new content when the portal is purged. News updates automatically from Wikinews, using Wikinews Importer Bot. I believe the portal meets the standards for Featured Portal status after a rigourous first featured nomination, which has helped develop the portal further. Rudget (review) 11:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments

1. If there is an ongoing WP:FPOC discussion, the WP:PPREV should be archived, but it is still open at the moment, at least according to the portal's talk page. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

2. Looks like you accidentally used Portal:Wales/Selected biography/Layout for the Portal:Wales/Selected article section as well, that will have to be fixed. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

3. The "No free image" things on the Selected bios might be okay in the actual articles, but look unseemly in the portal itself. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:33, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

4. Flag, Arms, and Map in the Intro could be rotated, like in Portal:Oregon, Portal:Iceland/Intro and Portal:Philosophy of science/Intro. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Not needed. Other portals are featured without it, example Portal:Sustainable development. Rudget (review) 13:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   True - this one was just a suggestion, not really required or anything - though it could be considered as a longer term recommendation to add some more dynamism. Cirt (talk) 13:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   It's just that most of the national symbols are already used in the Selected picture section. Rudget (review) 13:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

5. Left column is a bit wide and right column is a bit narrow, better to showcase 2 "Selected" subsections of content at the top, and make the columns 55%/45%, and shift some stuff around. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Much better - but "Featured content", "Things you can do", and "Selected quote" would probably all look better if moved to somewhere inside the bottom section where there is 100% width. Cirt (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   There is way too many things at 100% width already, it'd break up the flow. See what it is like now. Rudget (review) 13:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Much better, but still, I'd swap locations of WikiProjects and Featured content. Cirt (talk) 13:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:35, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

6. "Associated Wikimedia" should have its own subpage, with links to other projects tailored to searches or existing pages as per what is currently available in this topic. Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

7. "Selected quote" would look much nicer if modeled after the WP:FPORT, Portal:Sustainable development - as would subsections "Things you can do" and "WikiProjects". Cirt (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

8. Looks like "Selected picture" section is missing the Archive/More footer. Cirt (talk) 13:35, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 13:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Oh wait - if you are going to go with the Archive/More format for all the other subsections, best to use that format for this one too, and not "Suggest" format. Cirt (talk) 13:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Doing. Rudget (review) 13:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Looks like this one still has the "Suggest" footer? Cirt (talk) 13:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. Rudget (review) 14:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

9. News section also appears to not have a footer, which could link directly to n:Portal:Wales. Cirt (talk) 13:35, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

   Done. I went and did this one. Cirt (talk) 13:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

10. Did you know - Also still uses the Suggest/More footer, should be changed to Archive/More, for uniformity/standardization w/ other sections of the portal. Cirt (talk) 13:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

    Done. Rudget (review) 13:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Excellent work. Thanks for responding so insanely fast to my above comments. Portal looks great. Cirt (talk) 13:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support. Looks like a featured portal. Red and green is handled well and I admire the restraint on borders (none) in the boxheaders. Beautiful job. -Susanlesch (talk) 21:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. Attractive clean colours. The column layout at my monitor resolution was significantly unbalanced (too long on the left column), though I can't see a quick fix that would balance. Looking at the Selected articles list I'm confused as the majority seem to be biographies -- when the random selection gives two biographies it looks rather odd to me. Surely there must be ten or so non-biographical Welsh articles of at least B-class? Not all the biographies have images associated, eg Gethin Jones, Max Boyce, Lloyd Owen, Tommy Cooper. Espresso Addict (talk) 22:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I know there is quite a problem with that, and I am looking to resolve the issue, but it is difficult. With a context that is in poorly represented on Wikipedia its hard to find any good B-class articles (or higher) which I can use without using half the page as just an introduction, in that case, it would be better to just link the page itself. Biographies, on the other hand, are in plentiful supply and this is the reason why they have been used in this particular instance. I hope it doesn't impede too much on the portal, and I will look at updating some selected articles when the time comes that articles about various Wales locations are of a good standard. Rudget (review) 14:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
    • In that case, I'd personally suggest amalgamating the Biographies and Selected articles until there are sufficient non-biographies to stand on their own. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
      • This was addressed in the last FPOC which ultimately lead to its unsuccessfulness at that particular time. If I don't retain the Selected biography section, there wouldn't be enough to meet FPOC criteria. Greman Knight. 08:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Organized Labour

This portal has just celebrated its first birthday, had a successful peer review, and is, I think, ready to be considered as a featured portal candidate. Some of its features include: 366 rotating "Article of the Day" articles, 12 heavily-populated "This Month in Labor History" features, 50 random quotes, 48 featured photos, and 105 DYK's from the front page. Thanks in advance for your input! Haus^Talk 23:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

• Mild oppose- for god sake replace the selected article section with brief text about the article. it is looking extremely bad. Sushant gupta (talk) 05:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your feedback! I took a close look at the portal with your comment in mind and came to the conclusion "There is no way an article with an infobox can look good in a half-wide column." This led to a redesign that I believe was very helpful. It may well be that "A portal that uses daily articles cannot be a featured portal" or that "A portal that transcludes selected articles cannot be a featured portal." But I hope you'll bear with me as I seek to find out. Haus^Talk 13:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

no dude, you must have a layout for selected articles similar to portal:economics or any other portal. portals don't need inline citations and external linking. we don't give in-depth knowledge on portals. just a brief context about topics so that one can have a quick look up about the topic. I DO THINK THIS PORTAL has a potential to be FP. just improve this thing. Sushant gupta (talk) 16:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand that one way to approach this candidacy is to remove the 366 date-keyed articles of the day that WP:LABOUR has put together, and replace this with blurbs from 10 featured articles. That's clear. The question is if there's a viable approach that doesn't involve dismantling the article of the day functionality. If there's not, I'll take that information back to WP:LABOUR and let the group choose whether they want a featured portal or articles of the day. Cheers. Haus^Talk 17:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

pls. try to get the exact importance of portals. it is to provide the viewers with brief outs. Sushant gupta (talk) 18:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comments. Looks very nice but not quite ready for prime time. Can WikiProjectOrgLabTasks move up? Usage in other featured portals (and even the recommended section in Wikipedia:Portal guidelines) put a menu of other portals and Wikimedia as the footer. Can the red "talk" link in the intro be removed? Can "purge server cache" be moved up to become "Show new selections"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Susanlesch (talk • contribs) 15:26, 7 April 2008
  • Thanks for the feedback! I implemented all your suggestions. Do you think that "Related Portals" and "Wikimedia" look better at the bottom? The reason I had them on the side was to fill up blank space when someone looks at the page with a narrow browser. I might play with making the DYK box a little bigger... If you have any other suggestions, I'm all ears. Haus^Talk 21:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I think not so much a question of looks as guiding readers through the portals. Some invention is wonderful but comforming to standard navigation is a basic principle that helps everyone. Thanks for the very quick fixes. -Susanlesch (talk) 21:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Quite a pleasure, and thanks again for the help! Haus^Talk 22:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support. One quick thing, I would remove the date (currently 07 April) from the box heading if possible. Good luck with future maintenance. Nice work. -Susanlesch (talk) 21:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks again, Susan. I played with a couple of alternatives with respect to the date -- the part that bugged me was the blue wikilink on red. My current favorite is "Organized Labour Article Of The Day for April 07, 2008", but I'd be happy to lop off the date if anyone still thinks it needs to go. Cheers. Haus^Talk 22:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the blue is gone and all is well ("the" can be lowercase probably). Thank you again. -Susanlesch (talk) 22:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose (and abstain from closing, obviously) - Sorry Haus, but yeah, the article thing is a big issue for me. I like innovation, but I think it's a bit too innovative. If you have 10 featured articles, and put them on random, that'd be great. If each of them has a "month significance" you could even schedule them. But transcluding an article is not a good idea, IMO. Sorry. Since I'm here, some other notes that need to be addressed;
• First of all, the image is great. Kudos. (Don't need to change anything here! :)
• "edit - history" links (in top section) should be plainlinks
  • And on that note, I'd argue that they're not really necessary for readers, but it's up to you. This innovation I can handle! :)
    • Y Done Good point, removed.
• The intro section has way too much bolding, makes reading difficult
  • Y Done I removed the bolding outside the first sentence. I'd be happy to remove that as well.
• "Organized Labour Article of the Day for April 09, 2008" - if you don't remove this bit (in which case, my oppose will have to stand...) please wlink the date per WP:DATE
  • Y Done I re-wikilinked the date. Susanlesch pointed out above the the blue wikilink on the red background was kind of gross, but I can go either way.
• Ensure all images in selected quote section are free use (heck, ensure *everything* on the portal is free use)
  • Y Done Double-checked all pictures in the quote section.
  • Y Done Double-checked all pictures in the selected picture section.
• Not sure why the wlink in the quote section (eg. I'm seeing Seattle General Strike of 1919) is in plainlinks...
  • Question. I don't quite understand: do you want me to remove the wikilink from the item below?

"Nothing moves in the city, without our say-so. Let the bosses curse, let the papers cry. This morning I saw it happen with these ancient eyes of mine. Without our say-so nothing moves but the tide!"

-- Rob Rosenthal, written during the Seattle General Strike of 1919.

• Each date for the "in labor history" bit (which I'm not overly fond of, if you can find something else to replace it with...) needs a keyword in bold
  • Question. Do you think a "Today in labor history" would work better? I have enough material to make something like "Today in Aviation" at Portal:Aviation.
• "More DYK" --> "More Did You Know?" since readers aren't familiar with WPjargon
  • Y Done Changed.
• The Show new selections link could be bigger
  • Y Done Removed <small> tag.
• There should be a Category:Organized Labour portal which all relevant pages are in (see Category:Music of Australia portal, for instance)
  • Y Done O.K., I think everything is categorized. There turned out to be 684 pages, so it's possible I missed a few.
• Oh, yeah. Since "Organized labour" has a lowercase "l", I'd have thought the portal should have the same...if you don't want to move every subpage (trust me, it's a pain!), you might want to play around with some hacks to change the wording on the main page ({{lowercase}} or something like that).
  •    Doing...   This might be tricky, but I'll see what I can come up with...
  • Question. As far as I can tell, hacking this is impossible after MediaWiki 1.11, due to a change in how the DISPLAYTITLE magic word works explained here. I'd like to hold off on moving 684 pages until I get some more input on this one...
• Would an in the news section be asking for too much? See also User:Wikinews Importer Bot, in use on Portal:Wales
  • Question. I looked into this a while back and ended up on the fence. n:Category:Labor only has 9 articles, and only 4 of these are from 2008. I'd be happy to plug it in, I just wasn't convinced it would be a net positive.
  • Y Done I went ahead and did this -- it looks better than I would have thought.

Again, sorry to oppose. I'll be watching this nomination to see what you do...who knows, I may be able to support at some stage. Good luck, dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 08:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for providing so many good ideas! I took a quick pass and addressed what I could right away. Like I said above, I came into this understanding that understanding it's possible that "A portal that uses daily articles cannot be a featured portal" or that "A portal that transcludes selected articles cannot be a featured portal." I appreciate that you took a step back and gave the idea a fair shake. In any case, the portal has already gained a great deal from going through the process. Back in a bit for another pass. Haus^Talk 11:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Mammals

• Support as a nominator -the portal has a potential of being featured and it also has a huge coverage. random portal component is being used in the portal. thanks, Sushant gupta (talk) 10:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done Comments. Looks good. Two things. If you are investing in random content, would it be possible to change the image in the intro section too? Or make a group of several? Probably no one mammal says it all. Also, could the purge link at the bottom be removed, as there is a "Show new selections" link? Nice work and I wish you luck with it. -Susanlesch (talk) 21:09, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

thanks a lot for sharing your valuable opinion. is there anything else i can do! Sushant gupta (talk) 04:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Support. Thank you for the very quick changes. You could move related portals down to just above the 'portals' footer (just an opinion as I couldn't find a written rule saying that). Attractive and a great subject. Well done. -Susanlesch (talk) 05:54, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. It's an interesting, clean layout,

• Y Done but the box headers without borders look rather "spotty" to me.
• Y Done The columns in the layout are unbalanced at my screen resolution (consistently longer on the left), perhaps it would work better with the DYKs running two columns? Agree with above that the introductory image needs thought, as a single mammal cannot be representative -- possibly several images of very different mammals, either rotating or simultaneously?
• Y Done A diagram showing the relationships of the major modern classes would also be interesting. The introductory text has around the right length and level of detail, but might benefit from splitting into paragraphs to increase readability.

instead of image for the classification i have introduced a textual context. **Introduction has been splitted into paragraphs. thank-you for your opinion. i do appreciate your efforts. Sushant gupta (talk) 09:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done As there's only one Selected Article (and not a Selected Article plus Selected Biography, as per many portals), perhaps 11 articles is a little slim?

now there are 14 articles. hope so they are enough. thanks, Sushant gupta (talk) 10:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done One of the selected articles (Homo floresiensis) lacks an image and contains a red link.

sorry we don't have images for Homo floresiensis! i have removed the red link as you mentioned. i have also changed the box- header layout. maybe now you are able to view the portal properly. Sushant gupta (talk) 09:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• Y Done Some of the "Things to do" bullets read a little oddly in the context of a portal and perhaps could be reserved for the Wikiproject (and should bullets 3 & 4 be indented?). Hope this is of use, Espresso Addict (talk) 22:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

the section is fine. Sushant gupta (talk) 07:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for working on these, I think the layout is easier to understand with the box headers. I'm not sure that the new box with the classification works so well immediately under the introduction; it might be better placed towards the bottom of the portal with the other two-column boxes. The * and † symbols need to be explained. I still think the text in the "Things to do" box, which appears to be cut & pasted from the Wikiproject, is inappropriate in both tone and content for the different audience of the portal, but perhaps others disagree. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

things to do section is fine. portals also represents the wikiProjects. these are the necessary things which needs to be addressed. Sushant gupta (talk) 04:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

fine i have mentioned the descriptions for † and *. thanks, Sushant gupta (talk) 06:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Vermont

Nominating Portal:Vermont. I have done extensive work on this portal over the last few months. This has gotten a portal peer review, see Wikipedia:Portal peer review/Vermont/archive1. I believe that it fits the criteria. It fits number 1, as much as possible. Number 2 and 3a are a little less so, but they still should make it in. The rest fit fine. It has randomizing selected biography/article sections (used to be one), randomizing selected pictures, a DYK section, news section, and more. Looking at other featured US states portals, I believe that it fits in with them. I hope that this can become a featured portal, and if not, any feedback here would be a great help! Also, I am not using the preloader due to it not working. Soxred93 | talk bot 21:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. A few comments, mainly minor issues which should be readily fixable. The bright yellow background detracts from the content, at least on my monitor. Capitalisation in the headers is a bit variable. The DYKs don't seem to be randomised -- are you planning to update them manually? The selected biography uses "(more)" to direct readers to the actual article, while the selected article lacks this link. I noticed a redlink in the selected article summary whilst hitting update, I think it was in the blurb for Ben & Jerry's. "On this day" has no events for 2 April; it might be better to use "In this week", or similar, if there aren't at least one or two events entered for every day of the year. I don't know whether putting portal maintainers on the main portal page is appropriate; certainly it seems to include a lot of white space, and might seem more appropriate on the talk page. Also I wasn't sure about the "To Do list" format; it seemed more appropriate for a wikiproject than something aimed at casual readers, and the pastel blue headers clash strongly with the yellow on my monitor. Hope these comments are helpful; I'm not particularly familiar with the featured portals on US states, so some of these things might be to fit in with them. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Color scheme changed. Header capitalization standardized. DYK's update manually. Selected articles now use (more). Redlink fixed. Others shall be updated later. On this day changed to On this week. I have seen other featured portals with the maintainers section. The To Do list is the one used by the WikiProject, using the standard NavBox collapsable div's. Thank you for your comments. Soxred93 | talk bot 15:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose until at least all the above can be fixed, the topic and related portals section can be brought in line with other FPOs and the events in history section can be scrapped. Rudget (review) 12:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Per RudgetCPacker (talk) 18:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. Would it be possible to give the default font size to the titles of the drop down sections of the To Do section? They look kind of squished compared to navboxes readers will encounter elsewhere. -Susanlesch (talk) 21:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

  Y Done Soxred93 | talk bot 02:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Anglicanism

Stats: (7) Selected articles, all of "GA" class or higher and all have an associated free-use image, (12) Selected biographies, all of "GA" class or higher and all have an associated free-use image, (7) Selected pictures, all save one are Featured Pictures and all are free-use images, (20) Did you know entries, showing 3 at a time, all of which appeared on the main page in the past. All of the above sections are randomized and display new content when the portal is purged. New material is added from the Wikiproject:Anglicanism. I believe the portal meets the standards for Featured Portal status. -- Secisek (talk) 06:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Need more than just 7 articles and 7 pictures. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Typicaly, perhaps, but I have not seen any number cited as a requirement, having read over the guidelines several times. I saw in another review someone pulled the number 10 out of nowhere, but this was an editor's opinion, not a requirement. In both cases the numbers are just a bit lower than would normaly be seen due to the superior quality of the material included. Articles, pictures, bios and DYKs are regularly added to the portal as they pass through the GA process or featured processes. There is no content that has not been through a GA or featured review. I could gin up the numbers of both by including what I consider content of a lesser quality, but that hardly seems the point of this review. This is an ample sellection of the best the subject has to offer and I ask you to support the nom. -- Secisek (talk) 22:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

In my humble opinion I agree with Ohana. More than seven articles are required to give an in-depth cross section of the topic, the same goes for the selected pictures and biographies. For that reason and that reason alone (the rest of the portal lookwise is excellent), I have to Oppose the nom. Sorry. _{WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN} ^{I push my hand up to the sky} 23:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Respectfully, that doesn't seem to hold water. Featured Portal Hinduism has a total of 22 bios and articles. Featured Portal Scientology has 20. We have 19. Featured Portal Christianity still uses archive-format (I have suggested changing it to no avail.) If there is a minimum number, what is it? I still would rather have 20 GA & FA articles rather than 30 B and 10 Start articles, but in the intrest of passing I'll play ball. If I add 4 articles we would in fact have more than any every other Featured Portal in the Religion category save Religion itself. Is there anything else wrong?

Updated stats: (9) Selected articles, all of "GA" class or higher and all have an associated free-use image, (13) Selected biographies, all of "GA" class or higher and all have an associated free-use image, (8) Selected pictures, all save one are Featured Pictures and all are free-use images, (21) Did you know entries, showing 3 at a time, all of which appeared on the main page in the past. All of the above sections are randomized and display new content when the portal is purged. New material is added from the Wikiproject:Anglicanism. I STILL believe the portal meets the standards for Featured Portal status. With the additions, we have two more (bio+articles) in total than Featured Portal Scientology and the same amount as Featured Portal Hinduism. Number should no longer be a problem as this is one of the more content-heavy portals in the category. -- Secisek (talk) 03:33, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm more lenient on selected pictures so you can choose whatever you like as long as it is related to the portal's topic. And I don't mind seeing selected articles that are not FA or GA. Why? It's a lame reason to oppose a portal to become featured simply because there're not enough FA or GA articles in that topic. I'm happy on anything articles that are B class or above, just no stub or start-class. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

How many of each though? I nominated this before and withdrew it because I felt the goal posts kept moving. -- Secisek (talk) 20:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Nice balance of choices for what to and what not to present so the reader is guided to information rather than overwhelmed. The intro text is quite long, maybe too long, if it is static but in this case overall more text rather than more sections seems to work out beautifully. Well done. -Susanlesch (talk) 23:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose, as per FPC 1 & 3.2. There are some comments to improve the portal:
  1. Summarise selected article and selected biograpies. They are too lengthy.
  2. Selected holy days section has lack of information. That do not provide the time period. That do not provide, why that day is special.

Need some more time to improve the portal to get the Featured status. Regards, Shyam ^(T/C) 11:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Again, this new opposition is not being made on solid ground. Selected holy days is identical in everyway to the section found on Featured Portal Hiduism - I added it yesterday to raise the value of the portal and now an editor feels more content somehow lowers the quality of the portal. That makes no sense whatsoever.

I welcome any suggestions to improve the portal, but the purpose of this review is to determine if this portal passes the stated criteria or not. These article summaries pass criteria 1 because each one "exemplifies our very best work." They are all GA or better. There is NOTHING in the criteria about length, you just made that up and another editor can - and likely will - come along and oppose unless we lengthen the shortened summaries.

Moving on, criteria 3.2 states that the portal must "display Wikipedia's content in an aesthetically pleasing way. The colours are coherent and complementary, and do not detract from the content. Featured portals have no formatting issues. Red links are limited in number and restricted to aspects that encourage contribution." The colors are coherent, there are no formating issues and no red links except in the project section. The portal passes. Again, there is no mention of length of articles or detials to be included in the calendar.

This is exactly why I pulled the nomination last time - the goal posts kept moving. For example, The intro section has been lengthened since the last nom as someone opposed because the intro was too short. The supporter above now felt the intro was too long and so we shortened it again. This process is flawed, I hope it isn't broken. The question is: does the portal meet the criteria as stated or not? Clearly it does, or else Scientology and Hinduism - which are already Featured Portals - don't. What has to be done to get this to pass? I don't want anybody's opinon on that subject, I want a factual check list like we have for GA or FA that includes all the criteria. Respectfully, -- Secisek (talk) 06:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

• CommentOppose. Your pictures are of mostly of exceptionally high quality and, with your colour choices, make a visually attractive portal. I think, however, that the lead text is still too long; on my (reasonably high-res) monitor, the introductory material plus the lead take up fully 80% of the depth. Also five lines in the legend to the map seems a little long -- could this be condensed somehow? (Or even for simplicity just use a map with only the Anglican communion and not the associated ones, if this would be appropriate.) I agree that many of the text boxes are too long and wordy. A concise summary of the content is more useful in guiding people to articles of interest. Some minor issues. Some of the headings are italicised, while others are not. You use both "Archive/nominations" & "Archive/noms"; also both "More..." and "Read more...". You might like to update the picture in the blurb on St Mary's, Acton to one of the ones currently in the article. Hope this is helpful -- the content here is of excellent quality, there just seem a few presentational issues remaining. Espresso Addict (talk) 04:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Your minor issues have all been addressed, but right here somebody opposed the previous nom saying the intro needed to be EXPANDED. This process needs to be fixed! Again, can you point me to the guide lines for article length? Where are you getting that from? This is very frustrating for me. I also find it humorous that you feel that the pictures are "mostly of exceptionally high quality" when every selected picture save one is Featured. Please, does this pass the given criteria or not? -- Secisek (talk) 09:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, I'm referring to the length of the blurb in your text boxes, not to the length of the articles that are pointed at. It's my opinion that, owing to the lengthy intro and blurbs, the portal fails to meet featured criteria 2 & 3, because it makes the portal less attractive to look at and harder to use. Others may undoubtedly differ, but that's just a quirk of any peer review system. As to my high-quality pictures comment, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I was actually meaning to compliment all the pictures in the portal, not just the Selected Picture. Espresso Addict (talk) 16:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Articles should be of good quality. There are some articles, which do not qualify to be selected, like, Old St Paul's Cathedral, St Thomas the Martyr's Church, Oxford. There are some lists, which are not qualified as selected articles, like List of Archbishops of Canterbury and List of Church of England dioceses. You may use a sepearte section for lists, like, selected list, if you have good number of them. Other than this, you are using very long summary for most of the articles and biographies. That's why this portal requires a good amount of work. You may take some time to review and come after to get the portal well-improved. Thanks, Shyam ^(T/C) 10:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

They are all GA are better, how do they not qualify to be selected - esp. in light of the above comments that B class is all that is needed? How long do they need to be? How many times do I have to ask what the requirements are here? Somebody above just said "the content here is of excellent quality". You all need to settle on a single standard. This is a joke as is. -- Secisek (talk) 10:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is the link in case you need to review what a GA is:Wikipedia:Good articles. To make it easy here are the first words on that page: "Good articles are articles which are considered to be of good quality..."

Again, both those articles are GA. If length is an issue, somebody needs to tell me what the accepted length is. -- Secisek (talk) 11:20, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Secisek, my apologies. If they are Good articles. They can be selected articles. Length of the articles is not an issue to be selected articles. Listed featured lists will not be acceptable here. The length in the summary section of most of the selected articles is an issue. You may write better summaries for each of the selected articles. Thanks, Shyam ^(T/C) 11:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with Shyam. Selected article and biographies are way too long. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 13:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment. I don't understand 'way too long'. I just did a word count of today's article summary (424 words) on the Portal:Anglicanism which is shorter than the summary of today's article (562) on the Featured Portal Portal:Christianity. The two biography summaries are the same length - 307 words and 303 words, respectively - on the two portals. I think 'way too long' is either hyperbole or obstructionism. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 14:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the blurbs in Portal:Christianity are far too long, as well. Espresso Addict (talk) 16:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

How long should they be!? I am in disbelief at what is happening here. -- Secisek (talk) 16:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support. According to the Featured portal criteria, this portal satisfies:

1. It showcases a good number of GA class and higher articles and pictures. Pass.

2. The articles and pictures are all Anglican related. Pass.

3.1 The portal is useful in that it covers a core topic and provides interesting examples of the topic. Pass.

3.2 To my eye the format is attractive. There are no formatting problems. Pass.

3.3 The portal follows a format found at other portals thus will be familiar to readers. Pass.

3.4 The portal is well-maintained. There is an active wiki project behind it. The project - Wikipedia:WikiProject Anglicanism - is highlighted in the project box. Pass.

4. The are no outstanding MoS issues including those found at Wikipedia:Portal and Wikipedia:Portal guidelines. Pass.

5. The images are appropriate; virtually all pictures are Featured and no obvious copyright problems. Pass.

6. The portal is not self-referential. Pass.

I see no impediment in supporting this portal to Featured status. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 14:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hyperbole or obstructionism
This is the fourth time I am asking in as many posts: what are the requirements on length for each summary? If people continue to oppose with out being able to answer this question, I will be forced to get the wider community involved because, yes, a quick read over the previous nomination and this one so far does make it seem like hyperbole and/or obstructionism is winning the day here. Now, where is the requirement on length?

What is more, I would like to know why the above editor felt that two GA articles did "not qualify to be selected". Hyperbole or obstructionism, indeed... -- Secisek (talk) 15:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Word length of blurbs / summary

I can see why Secisek is frustrated. See Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates, those against must supply an actionable reason - a specific rationale that can be addressed - and if nothing can be done in principle to address the objection, the director may ignore it. Simply saying that the summaries are too long and giving neither policy, guideline or word length to frame the debate is bordering on bad faith. Secisek even points to his previous nom where the objection was that the summaries were 'too short'. Any fool can shorten the summaries if need be but only a fool would cut before having the specifications in hand. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 17:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I've come up with a proposed word count:

Is this what is expected? Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 18:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

At least somebody understands. Shortening any given summary is easy and we are not opposed to doing so, but we need to know what the guideline or policy is. It needs to be written in to the requirements. If we shorten them, any other editor can oppose on the ground they aren't long enough. What is the standard? Let's make it official. This whole process is clearly at the mercy of any given editor's personal, and often contradictory, whimsy.

Above I was told that portals "Need more than just 7 articles" - yet during the first nomination, the very same editor told me - and I quote - "You just need to pick 6 articles, put them in, and you come back 6 months later and put up new ones." Perhaps the standard has evolved since the first nom, but there is no way of knowing as this critical criteria is not included in the official requirements. How many times must I ask what the requirement is? Does anybody here know? If I were to go and ammend the criteria based off this discussion it would now read:

Can we all be serious for a moment and decide what length these need to be? -- Secisek (talk) 18:20, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think prescribing a specific length for article blurbs is a good idea, as the amount of text that works depends greatly on other factors such as column width and associated picture size. For readability, I think it would be good to aim for the complete blurb (including the image), at a normal screen width and resolution to take up no more than a maximum of 2/3 of the screen height, and preferably closer to 60%. For an average-sized picture on my monitor set up, that would equate to something in the region of a maximum of 225 words, but I don't know how it would work on a lower-resolution monitor. For what it's worth, summaries of printed articles usually fall in the range 50 to 250 words. Hope this is helpful. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I've just gone and counted ten featured portals picked at random across the range of topics, and got a median of 165 words (range: 105–316) for the Selected article blurb; the Selected biography blurb is often shorter. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone trying to use straw man argument on me? In the last nomination, I explicitly said the portal should use randomized format rather than monthly archive. Now that you switched to randomized format, you can't just keep the number of articles in rotation the same as the monthly archive method. We are not involved in any so-called obstructionism (at least not to the level in FA). Going back to the discussion regarding # of words in each section of the portal. I'm not a big fan on counting number of words because it is highly dependent on what subject the portal is about. But clearly this portal is way outside of the normal distribution. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 18:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

So, you will not give a hard suggestion, but you still oppose? I am going to disregard your opposition if you will not offer a constructive suggestion of article length. It looks to me (and now to others, too) that you are indeed, engaging in obstruction. You claim a strawman arguement against you? The comment you refer is not an arguement against anything, but was only mentioned to point out the lack of any clear standards in this process.

Your first complaint (the response to which you are crying strawman over) was that there were not enough articles in the portal. Since then several have been added - although we still have not determined how many would be "enough" because the process has no clear standards. Your opposition is now based on article length, correct? Again, we will disregard your opposition if you do not give us "actionable" suggestions. "Too long" and "way outside of the normal distribution" does not cut it. See the suggestion below. -- Secisek (talk) 08:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Would it be fair to say that most summaries should be between 100-350 words? Most leaves some room for exceptions, but gives editors some idea of what is expected. Is there support for adding this guideline to the requirements? If there is, I will adopt these guidelines for the portal. -- Secisek (talk) 00:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

• New FA

The project had another FA promoted to the portal: Augustine of Canterbury! -- Secisek (talk) 18:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

• New GA

The project had another GA promoted to the portal: Chester Cathedral! -- Secisek (talk) 00:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• New GA

The project had another GA promoted to the portal: William Wilberforce! -- Secisek (talk) 18:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• New Featured Picture

The project had another Featured Picture promoted to the portal (at right).

-- Secisek (talk) 19:00, 8 April 2008 (UTC)