Talk:Ahmad Shah Massoud

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:
Military history WikiProject     (Rated Start-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
WikiProject Biography / Military / Politics and Government (Rated B-Class)
Biography portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Swords.svg
 This article is supported by the military biography work group.
Vote.svg
 This article is supported by the politics and government work group.
WikiProject Afghanistan  
Ahmad Shah Massoud is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Unrated ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Central Asia (Rated B-Class, Mid-importance)
Ahmad Shah Massoud is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang, Tibet and Central Asian portions of Pakistan, Iran and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Nuvola apps date.svg A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day... section on September 9, 2004, September 9, 2005, September 9, 2007, and September 9, 2008.


Contents

[edit] Most effective?

The text stated "he proved to be the resistance fighter in history against the Red Army". I added the words "most effective". This is not my opinion either way. I have no information as to whether such a claim is valid or not. However, it appears that the original author meant to use the words "most effective".


[edit] Assasination

Well,I heard he was assasinated ten days before September 9th and he died in September 9th,and as you see It's diffrent with article.Which one is truth?--81.31.160.58 21:09, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The assasination attempt took place on the 9.9. and the same day. His death was kept secret for a few days to avoid chaos and loss of morale among the United Front -- CesPis 06:13, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Did the US kill Massoud?

Masood is a good person in the afghanistan he halp to poor people

The above (unsigned) remark is indeed typical of how Massood is regarded by many people in Afghanistan and abroad. Perhaps the article should expand a bit more on the man's personality, beliefs and statesmanship. I'm not the greatest expert on this, or I would perhaps do it... --me

salom man bache akram az jangalak

The "From non-US" view seems very biased and is emotive rather than factual. I have never seen ANY evidence ANYWHERE that the United States ordered his death. As well, it has gramatical errors. This is pure speculation, and has no place here. Deleted. -24.118.48.14 12:24, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

The idea that the united states would order his death is rediculous. Massoud would have been a great in for the CIA teams sent into the country after 9/11, especially since the leader of the team, Gary Schroen, was a friend of Massoud's.

I agree it's highly unlikely the US would have him killed, but here's a link explaining the theory: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/ShanghaiCO.html#p0

I thought this man had a son and that his son survived the killing of his father. IS the son in hiding?

Massoud has 6 children, one of them a son. -- CesPis 06:13, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

The ratical.org article is incredible. "The US had no trouble co-opting his organization to fight against the Taliban" ?!? His organization had been fighting the Taliban all along. "There was never any evidence made available to the public that would explain how the September 11 attackers were connected to Afghanistan." ?!? The Taliban openly admitted (http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,553159,00.html among many other sources) at the time that bin Laden and company were living in Afghanistan under the Taliban's protection. Phaid 17:26, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


The British Court judgement 'SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT v E' of November 2006 contains information (#69) on persons involved with facilitating the assassination of Massoud. The document is available here:[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.33.241.216 (talk) 15:16, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Some BBC article

ISI, was often strongly Islamist, encouraged the Americans to aid the fundamentalists in Afghanistan at the expense of moderate, pro-Western groups like the one headed by Ahmad Shah Massoud. For years the Americans obliged.

During the 1980s it sometimes seemed as though they were determined to undermine Massoud, the one leader who really could deliver.

But Pakistan was fiercely opposed to him. Sometimes governments in Islamabad seemed to want to install a fundamentalist Islamic regime in Afghanistan. At other times, they merely encouraged instability there, in order to divert the attention of the Islamic fundamentalists inside Pakistan itself. [2]

Great. How courageous of you to use your anonymity to agitate against people here.You were probably the same person who added that war crimes section to the biography? haroon 12:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] War Crimes (in the fog of war)

Because of the "fog of war", the responsibility for war crimes is very difficult to determine. There is no doubt that crimes were committed, but determing responsibility is near impossible. To be "implicated" simply means that there is suspician. Even if there are well documented accounts of Massoud's soldiers committing crimes, it is not clear what responsibility he should share. Did he encourage crimes or turn a blind eye? An earlier contributer mentioned that he punished soldiers for crimes. I was in Panjir in 1998, and saw his prisoners, who were very well treated. The exact truth is forever lost in the fog of war. However, my sense is that this man did not like war, and certainly not war crimes. His dream was to live in peace and read Persian poetry. roger 17:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Massoud, War Criminal??

Some anonymous person had added rumours and accusations of systematic war crimes committed under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. I have removed that section, because - even though it is clear that war crimes did happen in Afghanistan - there are no indications that Massoud ordered them or knew about them. There are many reported cases - I have talked to witnesses - that he had people from his troops (soliders, commanders) tried and arrested for war crimes among other things.

The fact that Massoud was not directly involved does not mean that he did not have part of the responsability. As Minister of Defense and literally Commander-in-chief of the Northern Alliance Army, he is politicaly responsable for that. I believe that the tag for Neutrality Disputed is more accurate that simply erase all that and pretend that nothing happened. BTW, you are an anonymus also in wiki. If you wanna join, just create a user account. Messhermit 13:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I am not a Wikipedia expert, so I am sorry if that was not the right procedure. I actually did log in and use those tildes to sign, but for some reason it seems like it didnt work. So what do I have to do, put that paragraph back and put up that tag? Now to the responsibility: First of all it has to be understood, that he was not a leader of a tightly organised military, like the western militaries with a exact chains-of-command etc. As a consequence commanders act more independently than they would in western style militaries, you can see that in the instances where the Taliban were easily able to take over places east of Kabul by just paying the commanders there more money. Secondly, especially in the time that he was minister of defense, he was opposed by fundamentalists (Hekmatyar) and others (Hezb-e Wahdat, Dostum) who were also in the government and worked more or less secretly against him, which led to the situation, that although he was theoretically minister of defense, more than half of the troops in and around Kabul where not under his command. PS: I ll try and sign this again now, in the case it doesnt work, my Wikipedia name is haroon1376 haroon 17:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Does that mean that Massoud did not any responsability AT ALL? He, just as Jekmatyar, Dostum and many others, are acused of use brutal methods during the Afghan Civil Wat. It would be pointless to portrait him as someone that has nothing to do with his violations. Messhermit 18:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

It means, that he has not ordered these killings and crimes as it was conveyed in that paragraph ('systematic war crimes' does sound like as if it was broadly planned). It has listed some events, e.g. the firing of rockets into civilian areas in Kabul, which are widely known to have been done by others (here: Hekmatyar). People who were in Afghanistan at that time and people who were involved in the fightings on different sides have confirmed this to me. As far as I know only the killing of Hazaras in Kabul was something where I was able to confirm, that he knew about it and tolerated it, because the people of Kabul actually pressed him to do something about the Hazara militia mass raping , killing etc. The point about that war crimes paragraph was, that it was writing all these accusations as facts. If the accusations are written as accusations, rumours as rumours and facts as facts, then I can live with that, at least until one knows if those rumours are true or not. BTW, comparing a person like Massoud with fundamentalist fools like Hekmatyar or principle-less opportunists like Dostum is not very sensible. haroon 12:07, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


On July 7, 2005, The Human Rights Watch published a 133-page report, “Blood-Stained Hands: Past Atrocities in Kabul and Afghanistan’s Legacy of Impunity,” about the atrocities committed in 90's in Kabul, in the report Massoud is accused of planning and carrying on the Afshar Massacre where around one thousands people were killed, a part of the report says:

"Ahmad Shah Massoud is implicated in many of the abuses documented in this report, both those committed by Jamiat forces, and those committed by other militia forces under his command. It is nonetheless important that his role and that of his commanders be fully investigated." [3]

According to The Guardian (November 16, 2001), "... on February 11, 1993, Massoud and Sayyaf's forces entered the Hazara suburb of Afshar, killing - by local accounts - "up to 1,000 civilians", beheading old men, women, children and even their dogs, stuffing their bodies down the wells."

This is also documented by the State Department of the USA. According to Los Angeles Times (Apr.26, 1999): "In one terrible incident in 1993, documented by the State Department, Masoud's troops rampaged through a rival neighborhood, raping, looting and killing as many as a thousand people."

The Amnesty International report, "International responsibility for human rights disaster", (1995) writes:

"In March 1995 Shura-e-Nezar (led by Massoud) forces reportedly carried out raids on hundreds of civilian homes in Kabul's south-western district of Karte She, killing or beating whole families, looting property and raping Hazara women. One family, interviewed by a foreign journalist in Kabul, said President Rabbani's soldiers had told them they wanted to "drink the blood of the Hazaras". Medical workers in the area confirmed at the time at least six incidents of rape and two attempted rapes, but believed the actual number was much higher."

Another account of crimes by Massoud forces have been documented by Amnesty International in the document "WOMEN IN AFGHANISTAN: A human rights catastrophe" (11/03/95) [4]:

In mid-1993 Nafisa, a 25-year-old woman, reportedly tried to kill herself when armed guards came for her. A neighbouring family who subsequently took refuge in Pakistan recalled how in June that year armed men from Shura-e Nezar had come to the woman's house.

"Nafisa ran to the third floor of the building and jumped off the balcony. The neighbours came to the streets and the guards left the area. This happened in the Khairkhana district of Kabul. She had broken her legs and her back. She was in hospital for a very long time. We do not know where she is now."

[edit] War Crimes

Witnesses, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and all major Human Rights organisations have records of all Mujahideen troops belonging to all factions and parties including 'those of Massoud' having direct involvement in the destruction of Kabul city, the massacre of civilians, and other Human Rights voilations. For details please visit the website of Human Rights Watch. [5] . I know that it would be untrue to state Massoud as a genuine hero of all Afghans, Massould specially remained popular among the people of the areas under his influence and most of the people of his ethnic group living in north and north-western Afghanistan. Massoud has "zero" popularity or fame among other ethnic groups, and the educated groups of all ethnicities specially Tajiks of Afghanistan.


Yeah, but who actually believes Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International after the crap they pull over and over again in Israel/Palastine. - Stolypin


After further reading, its interesting that no war crimes section has been edited in yet espicially with the amount of aggregarate information suggesting Ahmad Masood was involved in these acts. In response to others who mentioned doubt in the above sources, I don't think we can discredit the work of these large organizations just because they dont agree with a circumstance going on in another part of the world. To further aid the original sources, here is a link from an organization whos misssion aim is "an independent research and advocacy organization whose objective is to document serious war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by all of the parties during the conflict in Afghanistan".

It can be found here - http://afghanistanjusticeproject.org/warcrimesandcrimesagainsthumanity19782001.pdf#search=%22afghanistan%20war%20crimes%22

All citations are comprehensively listed at the end of the article. I think if theres no reasonable objection, I'd like to see something posted to this article in the next few weeks or so by someone or I might be willing to give it a go. Cheers

-Zero ZeroFC 05:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] about the assasiantion

There is alot of specualtion that Massood found out about the Sept 11th plot and was subsequently murdered at the order of Bin Laden bofore he could get the information to the US government.

I recently heard a journalist report that Osama Bin Laden and Zawahiri ordered the death of Masud in order that Mullah Omar (who was an enemy of Masud) would be permanently in his (OBL's) debt. This would assure that AQ operatives would have some safe haven. Juggins 19:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

There is a pretty good description of his assassination in the beginning of the book First In, written by Gary Schroen. While it does not make reference to any knowledge about the 9/11 plot Massoud may have had it does indicate that OBL was behind the assassinations in order to gain favor with Omar, as stated above.


"SOME commentators" see a connection between his death and the Sept. 11 attacks!?!? What moron doesn't see a connection? I consider Massoud the first person killed in the 9/11 attack. He was working with the CIA all through the 90s to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. I heard he was with the CIA agents when Sandy Berger told the agents not to take out OBL. Bin Laden knew Massoud would be a threat if the US responded to the attacks, and wanted Massoud out of the way.

It is possible Massoud was killed so Bin Laden would be protected by the Taleban after the attacks or that he was concerned about a well funded Northern Alliance toppling the regime. But neither of that makes sense, did the Taleban really think they were gonna be able to stay in power when under attack by the army of the USA (working with Massoud or not?) I guess the only explanation is that the Taleban didn't expect USA would retaliate itself, only through funding the Northern Alliance?Evilbu 13:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

In a word, yes. In another -- absolutely! 9/11 may have been the most prominent terrorist attack in history, but Bin Laden's organization of various other bombings during the decade earlier were certainly not "low-key." Al Qaeda saw no real response from the USA over the course of 10 years, and likely never imagined the one they got after 9/11. This impression could only have been more ingrained by the USA being pressured out of Somalia, which numerous sources have acknowledged as emboldening the image of a "paper tiger" USA in Bin Laden's mind. Given how unfamiliar he was with the personality of the administration elected just months before, it is entirely plausible that he anticipated only a huge influx of weapons and funds into the Northern Alliance, and removed Massoud in an effort to dispirit the resistance before that happened. - Rory Vincent 68.202.139.80 20:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, that's an interesting point. Most of Bin Laden's "actions" in Somalia, Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania (Bosnia perhaps?) were all during Clinton's administration. So you are suggesting that Bin Laden was not familiar enough with the new Bush administration and miscalculated?Evilbu 18:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] civil war

I'm sorry to see the civil war part containing nothing but some quotations. Wouldn't it be better to at least add (or maybe replace the current content with) some undisputed historical facts in a storyform. Like what role he played when the soviets left the country (I thought I recalled he actually went up to Kabul with his army and formed a ring around it, being sort of a neutral buffer between Hekmattyar and the Najibullah governement). The way he entered into the governement and the role he played in it (being minister of defence?). Maybe his reaction to the Taliban takeover and how he became leader of the northern alliance? I think that is more important to his biography than disputing wether or not he ordered human rights violations or wether or not he was a hero in this period.

I won't replace it myself, as I don't know enough about any dates and official positions during this period, but there must be someone around that can make a historically correct account of his positions during this period?

[edit] Assasination What is the Source ?=======

As far as the idea about Al-qaeda behind Masood's death, i believe this is the same source which has given the source to frederick Forsyth's "Afghan" novel.---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kunwarsid (talk • contribs) 19:22, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The Assassination, Bin Laden, and the Taliban

As noted in the "About the assassination" thread, the link between his murder and 9/11 is clear. I understand the link as a probable quid pro quo between Bin Laden/Al Qaeda and the Taliban: Al Qaeda gets rid of the Taliban's main enemy (Massoud), and in return, the Taliban will protect Bin Laden.

In fact, we know for a fact that the assassins were sent by Al Qaeda. We know this because we found electronic drafts of the pseudo-journalists introductory letter on Al Qaeda computers! The story is certain and well known; see, for instance, www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/599257/posts (originates from the Wall Street Journal).

I WAS VERY SURPRISED TO FIND *NO* MENTION OF THIS FACT IN THE MAIN WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE. I cleaned up some of the grammar myself, but don't have the time or expertise to fix this blatant hole in the Massoud article. Someone do it, please!

[edit] I think this is worth reading

This article puts the multi-billion dollar opium-herion industry into scope in regards to Afghanistan. It deals with the Northern Alliance and the Taliban too and paints a clearer picture. If you want to learn more about this aspect of Afghansitan and how it ties in with Kosovo, the KLA, and the rest of the world and the world economy read this article. It also talks about the assasination of Ahmad Shah Masoud and both US and Pakistani involvement.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061017&articleId=3516

[edit] Date of birth

Massoud was born on September 2, 1953[6] and died in Khwaja bahauddin disrtict in Takhar provience in Afghanistan.[7]

[edit] Why isn't his profile on wikipedia?

I can not see Ahmed Shah Massoud's profile in wikipedia. Is something wrong ? Why isn't wikipedia displaying the profile of this important leader? If there are any discrepiancies/differences, we can sort it but for the time being, we should have at least a basic profile of the man on wiki.

We do have it, ofcoarse. Someone vandalized and deleted the whole thing. I have reversed it and now we have it back! Behnam 19:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hagiography, poor grammar

This is supposed to be a biography, not a hagiography. Also, the grammar/coherence in the following passage is poor or redundant. "As soon as he was sure about their determination he departed with a group of 20 young men to Panjshir in 1979. Still not sufficiently armed Massoud and his troops marched on to Panjshir, Massoud’s home. Their enemy was a superpower and those who were weak or required help had to be protected; especially one’s own family." Those who were weak yada yada ... who's writing this? His best friend? Use impartial language please. Also, how many times did he go to Panjshir?

How about fixing the bad grammar yourSELF instead of complaining about it! Can't stand NON-editing complainers! SimonATL 15:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

206.248.141.38 19:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)marko

Oh, and by the way, the UN's voting gives a huge voice to tinpot dictators and other fools. Don't tell me that it's credible.

I have cleaned up the grammar and the hagiography elements in this article, it is not perfect, but it is better than before. --Seth J. Frantzman 07:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can someone spell "Lion of Panjshir" phonetically?

So we can get a sense of its sound and also explain why its a play on words? Thanks. SimonATL 15:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

let's play more: "Panj" in Persian means Five, and "Shir" means lion!!! 195.146.46.15 21:35, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why not "Ahmad Shah Masoud"?

Why Ahmed? and why Massoud? Jahangard 03:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

And why not? It's the most commonly used spelling.Raoulduke47 22:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What it is worth

first time i heard about The Lion of Panjshir was on a clear day while driving to work, listening to NPR's Morning Addition. The date was September 11, 2001 at approximately 8:50 EST. the NPR report stated Ahmed Shah Massoud was assassinated. the report immediately following, to my best recollection, was a small plane hit the World Trade Center with more information to follow -- the rest is history. παράδοξος 20:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

Question book-new.svg
 This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2007)

Good article, but I am not sure where each fact originated. Is Shah Massoud's biographical information from a single source or multiple sources? I'm putting this article on my to-do-list, and will help.

παράδοξος 18:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The other biographies of Masoof online are either very short or mostly lauditory, see http://www.massoudhero.com/English/biography.html as retrieved on 19 Jul 2007 22:18:00 GMT.

Unfortunatly this may be the best that there is until someone finds a book on Masood or Afghanistan and gives references from it.

--Seth J. Frantzman 07:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)--

[edit] March 26, 2001

Charlie Rose held an interview (available on google video) about Afganistan. A Taliban leader, Sayed Hashimi, and United States academic, Barnett Ruben, discuss Afganistan thoroughly. Then, Sebastian Junger talks about the time he spent with Ahmad Massoud. <embed style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=2911290068493351924&hl=en" flashvars=""> </embed>


[edit] Masoud was killed by his own men??

Some Afghans express doubts about killing of Masoud by the two Arab journalists and believe that they themselves were victims. [8] especially the claim about usage of the camera for the explosion is quite unrealistic because the film shot only seconds after the explosion shows the camera intact on the ground. [9]

Some Afghan writers even go further and accuse close aids of Masoud for the plot. Specifically Gen. Arif has been named as the one carrying the plot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kabulzamin (talk • contribs) 15:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How About a Photo?

There is no shortage of photographs of Ahmed Shah Massoud to be found at http://images.google.com/images?q=Ahmed+Shah+Massoud. I don't know the protocols, but certainly one of them has got to be suitable.

--C-U RPCV (talk) 04:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

There's a great photo available here. I would strongly suggest that an editor contact the copyright holder and try to have him release the work for use on this site. -- Veggy (talk) 06:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Just for the record: I strongly suggest not to ask the Flickr use. The linked photo is one of Reza Deghatis photos, taken 1985, see http://pa.photoshelter.com/c/webistan/image/I0000l1jygqMfBa4. Permission must come from Reza, not from a collection of unfree photos on Flickr. --Martin H. (talk) 16:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Sad And Pathetic

The Administrators of this foolish website need to stop deleting things just because they don't like it. I referenced my edits, but the admins felt obliged to defend the slave of the West, for whatever reason. Good for you. Go on and continue spreading misinformation.Wasabi salafi koonkati (talk) 09:10, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Putting this gently, I'd hesitate to call some random Geocities homepage a reliable source... – Luna Santin (talk) 09:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The National Hero of Afghanistan (lion of Panjshir) message to G. W. Bush

Bold textI send this message to you today on behalf of the freedom and peace-loving people of Afghanistan, the Mujahedeen freedom fighters who resisted and defeated Soviet communism, the men and women who are still resisting oppression and foreign hegemony and, in the name of more than one and a half million Afghan martyrs who sacrificed their lives to uphold some of the same values and ideals shared by most Americans and Afghans alike. This is a crucial and unique moment in the history of Afghanistan and the world, a time when Afghanistan has crossed yet another threshold and is entering a new stage of struggle and resistance for its survival as a free nation and independent state. I have spent the past 20 years, most of my youth and adult life, alongside my compatriots, at the service of the Afghan nation, fighting an uphill battle to preserve our freedom, independence, right to self-determination and dignity. Afghans fought for God and country, sometime alone, at other times with the support of the international community. Against all odds, we, meaning the free world and Afghans, halted and checkmated Soviet expansionism a decade ago. But the embattled people of my country did not savor the fruits of victory. Instead they were thrust in a whirlwind of foreign intrigue, deception, great-gamesmanship and internal strife. Our country and our noble people were brutalized, the victims of misplaced greed, hegemonic designs and ignorance. We Afghans erred too. Our shortcomings were as a result of political innocence, inexperience, vulnerability, victimization, bickering and inflated egos. But by no means does this justify what some of our so-called Cold War allies did to undermine this just victory and unleash their diabolical plans to destroy and subjugate Afghanistan. Today, the world clearly sees and feels the results of such misguided and evil deeds. South-Central Asia is in turmoil, some countries on the brink of war. Illegal drug production, terrorist activities and planning are on the rise. Ethnic and religiously-motivated mass murders and forced displacements are taking place, and the most basic human and women’s rights are shamelessly violated. The country has gradually been occupied by fanatics, extremists, terrorists, mercenaries, drug Mafias and professional murderers. One faction, the Taliban, which by no means rightly represents Islam, Afghanistan or our centuries-old cultural heritage, has with direct foreign assistance exacerbated this explosive situation. They are unyielding and unwilling to talk or reach a compromise with any other Afghan side. Unfortunately, this dark accomplishment could not have materialized without the direct support and involvement of influential governmental and non-governmental circles in Pakistan. Aside from receiving military logistics, fuel and arms from Pakistan, our intelligence reports indicate that more than 28,000 Pakistani citizens, including paramilitary personnel and military advisers are part of the Taliban occupation forces in various parts of Afghanistan. We currently hold more than 500 Pakistani citizens including military personnel in our POW camps. Three major concerns - namely terrorism, drugs and human rights - originate from Taliban-held areas but are instigated from Pakistan, thus forming the inter-connecting angles of an evil triangle. For many Afghans, regardless of ethnicity or religion, Afghanistan, for the second time in one decade, is once again an occupied country. Let me correct a few fallacies that are propagated by Taliban backers and their lobbies around the world. This situation over the short and long-run, even in case of total control by the Taliban, will not be to anyone’s interest. It will not result in stability, peace and prosperity in the region. The people of Afghanistan will not accept such a repressive regime. Regional countries will never feel secure and safe. Resistance will not end in Afghanistan, but will take on a new national dimension, encompassing all Afghan ethnic and social strata. The goal is clear. Afghans want to regain their right to self-determination through a democratic or traditional mechanism acceptable to our people. No one group, faction or individual has the right to dictate or impose its will by force or proxy on others. But first, the obstacles have to be overcome, the war has to end, just peace established and a transitional administration set up to move us toward a representative government. We are willing to move toward this noble goal. We consider this as part of our duty to defend humanity against the scourge of intolerance, violence and fanaticism. But the international community and the democracies of the world should not waste any valuable time, and instead play their critical role to assist in any way possible the valiant people of Afghanistan overcome the obstacles that exist on the path to freedom, peace, stability and prosperity. Effective pressure should be exerted on those countries who stand against the aspirations of the people of Afghanistan. I urge you to engage in constructive and substantive discussions with our representatives and all Afghans who can and want to be part of a broad consensus for peace and freedom for Afghanistan. With all due respect and my best wishes for the government and people of the United States,

Ahmad Shah Massoud. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.147.128.2 (talk) 11:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV tag Added

This article is very clearly violating NPOV policy. Its clearly in favor of the guy, despite the fact that a whole lot of people have nothing but bad to say about him.Pukhtunman (talk) 08:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you were more specific. Sources, please? – Luna Santin (talk) 08:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm Afghan. You're not. I don't like him, and everyone I know doesn't like him. That's my source.Pukhtunman (talk) 22:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

good for you if you dont like him, but as a fact, in Afghanistan officialy he is national hero of Afghanistan, it means most of the people are agree with him, you and taliban or Al Qaeda maybe dont like him, it doesnt mean you are eveyone!

Actually, the Karzai government has made him a "national hero". This says nothing about the reality of public approval, especiialy considering that signifigant portions of the population view Karzai in a negative light. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.162.128.52 (talk) 18:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

This is the equivalent of me stating that I am from the US so if I don't like Obama then the page should be changed to reflect that. Really don't care taht you're Afghan or if your sphere of influence doesn't either. That's not how this works. Bdg4 (talk) 22:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Did the USA support Massoud against the Soviet Army?

The USA, in particular their services involved in the assistance of anti-Soviet resistance in Afghanistan, did not trust Massoud because he did not speak English [Source : "Massoud l'Afghan" (1988) by Christophe de Ponfilly, a French cineast who knew Afghanistan quite well]. They very much preferred contacts with Gulbudin Heykhmatyar, the leader of the political and religious party, called Hezb-e-Islami, because Heykhmatyar could speak English ; NB : Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin, (HIG) is considered a terrorist organization by Coalition Forces in Afghanistan and is an ally of Al-Qaeda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.147.36 (talk) 08:54, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WPMilHist assessment

Demoted to "Start" as more inline citations are needed. Ejosse1 (talk) 16:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] farnucating

This word, farnucating, appears in the article but has no definition I can find in english. It need to be explained or edited out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.150.220.105 (talk) 17:50, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Peace Prize Nomination

The year following his assassination, in 2002, Massoud was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.


I don't see the relevance of this meaning. A nobel nomination doesn't really mean anything at all. Anyone can get nominated! Besides, they don't give the prize posthumous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.157.124 (talk) 15:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

This makes absolutely no sense to me either.. you can't get a nobel prize posthumous.. see Gandhi!

[edit] Camera

"The French secret service revealed on October 16, 2003 that the camera used by Massoud's assassins (...) The French secret service and the FBI then began working on tracing the route the camera took between the time it was taken from Vincendet and the Massoud assassination." says the article. It's now six and a half years later, did those two secret services finish their work? Is there any report on it? Glatisant (talk) 12:33, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] File:Jamiat e-Islami in Shultan Valley 1987 with Dashaka.jpg

Young fighters of Abdul Rasul Sayyaf in the Sultan Valley of Kunar Province, showing their Soviet captured DShK in 1987.

Erwin Franzen (User:Erwin Franzen) took the photo of these men from the Kunar Province of Afghanistan in 1987. Erwin met with Abdul Rasul Sayyaf [10] and so this image is showing Sayyaf's fighters.--AYousefzai (talk) 21:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ahmad_Shah_Massoud"