User talk:Flatscan

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[edit] Welcome to Wikipedia!!!

Hello Flatscan! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. You may also push the signature button located above the edit window. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. This is considered an important guideline in Wikipedia. Even a short summary is better than no summary. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! -- Kukini 08:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Wikipedia Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Wikipedia rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Cleaning up vandalism Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

[edit] Taser and Taser controversy articles

Last week, after hearing several recent news stories about Taser deaths and other incidents, I looked up "Taser" on Wikipedia, only to find that there was no article titled "Taser." Rather there was a section under "Electroshock Weapon" about Taser to which Taser redirected. Given the high profile nature of the Taser, I went and created a separate article called "Taser" by copying all the information from the Electroshock Weapon page, and adding various sections on the controversial aspects of the weapon, including some notable Taser deaths. Unbeknownst to me at the time, there was already an article called "Taser controversy." When I discovered it, I found both articles had some overlapping information, some of that was contradictory (not because sources were inaccurate, but because some were out of date). I promptly suggested merging these articles.

Fact is, if I entered "Taser" looking for information on the topic, so would many others, therefore, it makes sense to have an article titled "Taser" as the basic source of information on Tasers.

Here are some ideas as to solving this problem:

1. Merge "Taser controversy" into "Taser" and clean up
2. Make the "Taser" article's focus about what the Taser is, with a "main article" or "see also" tag directing readers to the "Taser controversy" article for information about the controversy
3. If the list of notable Taser deaths grows to be quite long, make that into a separate article.

Which do you think is the best approach? Shaliya waya 14:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Copied message to Talk:Taser#Suggested merge with Taser controversy at 01:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC) and left a note for Shaliya waya a few minutes later

[edit] Taser content

Hi, Flatscan. I'm not accepting your unilateral decision to quarantine Taser from justified critical content ("controversial" or otherwise.) Please review your action or prepare to face full scrutiny and criticism yourself. See my discussion proposal. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 07:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I will discuss at Talk:Taser. Flatscan (talk) 04:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Study

Comments from Flatscan originally made at and copied from User talk:Canyouhearmenow#Reverted edit to Study (historical revision)

Hi, you reverted an edit I made to Study. I had reverted edits that I felt were unencyclopedic and informal. My revision is identical to a revision that has been maintained since July 2007. Would you mind taking another look? Thanks.

By the way, your header link points to junebug52. Flatscan (talk) 03:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello Flatscan. Yes, I did make an edit reversal to the study article. [1] That statement is not encyclopedic and it is POV. Now, if you could cite it where the statement has been used by a third source, then it can stay in the article. Otherwise, I feel the edit was appropriate and edit should remain. When we are writing these things, we have to make sure that we are doing it in a non POV fashion and that everything we put in has a cite or source. Thank you for contacting me and bringing it to my attention. I hope you will enjoy your time here at wikipedia. Canyouhearmenow 12:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I do not follow your reasoning, in particular, why my edit fails WP:NPOV. The Study article is a disambiguation page, and it seems odd to require citations on brief descriptions. I was not able to find any relevant guidance at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). The revision isn't really mine — as I noted, it is a reversion to a long-standing previous revision. I can see that the revision that I reverted ("Studying, an excuse used to eat and hang out with friends") could be considered humorous or tongue-in-cheek, but it clearly lacks the primary definition of studying. Flatscan (talk) 01:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Flatscan, I appreciate your passion on this matter, however, even by definition the disambiguous page tells us, "There must then be a way to direct the reader to the correct specific article when an ambiguous term is referenced by linking, browsing or searching; this is what is known as disambiguation". The link that you added the verbiage to links right to an article on studying. You would have to link it somewhere so that your statement makes sense for the disambiguation. Canyouhearmenow 02:09, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for continuing this discussion and putting up with my persistence. I can see your latest point, particularly when comparing my revision to your latest revision (diff), as the description is better with "study skills" removed. However, I still fail to see why my edit merited outright and unexplained reversion. Did you use the Wikipedia:Rollback feature?

In consideration of my difficulty in understanding your points, would you mind if I asked CBD to help us? I noticed that you've contacted him in the past. Flatscan (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I have submitted this issue to CBD and I will wait on his response. I do feel that my edit is proper unless I am misunderstanding the rules, but they seem clear to me that if you are goingn to add verbiage and then link it, there has to be a union of the disambiguation and the link. In this case, I am not sure as to how the verbiage that you added had anything to do with the link for studying. If one searches for studying, I do not think it will link to the statements or additions that you made. This is why I made the original revert. Yes, I use the rollback feature. Thanks for your attention. Maybe you and I will learn something new here? Canyouhearmenow 03:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion continued after 1-month hiatus

Flatscan, I wanted to wait until I was sure of my revert before I notified you about the addition that you put up on the Study page. I was thinking that it was going to have to be removed to to being unencyclopedic and I was correct. IN the disambiguation, it has to point to a direct article or subject and not just a ramdom thought or action of the disambiguation. I hope this makes better sense to you. I also appreciate your input on my talk pages in reference to the rollback issue. It was not clear as to how to edit with rollback since it does not allow you to enter an explaination of the edit. So, now I am going in manually and reverting the vandalism. Takes more time but hey, we have to do our part! Thank you for being civil with me and I think above all things we both have learned new things here! Let me know if I can ever help you. Canyouhearmenow 03:03, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I am going to hold off on replying to some of them until we resolve the core dispute/discussion.

The definition the editor originally gave was attached to studying. I reverted that edit in the beginning and that is when the editor then linked it to study group. I never reverted the edit to that one. The edit I did was up ontop for studying. Then I put the correct disambiguation in there. I was waiting on CBD to get back with us so I never reverted the edit the editor placed back on which of course was study group. Thanks for fixing it for me. Canyouhearmenow 03:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC) (in response to Bibliomaniac15, diff)

From your comment, it appears that you attribute the following edit to me ("the editor"):

Studying, an excuse used to eat and hang out with friends (diff)

Is this a correct reading of your quoted comment? Flatscan (talk) 03:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I hope that you are not going to stop editing! That would be a shame. We need good editors and you are very passionate about your contibutions. Please reconsider being more active. Canyouhearmenow 04:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] February 2008

Hi, the recent edit you made to Taser has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thanks. Party!^{Talk to me!} 21:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Taser

Well, i was a bit too fast on the trigger! *bad pun intended*. But i did a check, and found out you were right, so i used a rollback on A good faith :) --Party!^{Talk to me!} 21:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I've moved the article back to the original title. I agree with your reasoning. -- Longhair\^talk 01:27, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back Flatscan!

I see that you are not editing that much, but you have been sneaking in from time to time! I do hope that you will come back and help me whip this place into shape! I would hate to think that an editor such as yourself would not devote time to what it is they love to do. I devote at least an hour a day to editing. It helps keep my mind active and it also stops my wife from killing me! She said I needed a hobby and now I have one! I just wanted to send you a little encouragement. Smiles! Canyouhearmenow 12:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Well it's about time! This place is crawling with vandalism and lack of committment to mainspace. Please try not to leave us like that again! It's very stressful! LOL Welcome back friend.. Canyouhearmenow 03:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keep it up

You're doing a commendable job, especially at Taser controversy. Some editors can work hard on an article for a long time and not get any recognition, so I thought I'd drop a little note by to let you know you're doing great! Keep up the good work! ⇒SWATJester ^{Son of the Defender} 00:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Excited delirium

I added the section since I couldn't find any reference to "excited delirium" in the Taser article. It's possible I just misspelled it when I was using the search function. In any case, in Canada, it has been a major issue relating to the use of Tasers and is mentioned in numerous articles I've read in the past few months and it seems clear, at least from the testimony given in Canada, and the defence given by Taser and its defenders, that it is an important aspect of the Taser story. Both articles that I cite discuss excited delirium in relation to Tasers (though I might not have pulled the most pertinent information from the source material). Reggie Perrin (talk) 05:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see the main source article here. I had intended to write the paragraph in a way that gives both Taser's side and the critics' side of the issue but I think I leaned too far towards the side of critics since , to my mind, "excited delirium" looks like junk science. Since Taser is raising the phenomenon it does merit mention in the main Taser article. Reggie Perrin (talk) 05:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Undue weight?

I don't understand how a paragraph on excited delirium constitutes "undue weight"? If this were taking up 1/3 of the article then you'd have a point but one small section? I don't think that's a valid criticism. How is it justifiable not to have any mention whatsoever of the issue when it is so prominent in the Taser story? Reggie Perrin (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Anyhow, this is what Undue Weight actually says: WP:NPOV#Undue weight: "NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. Now an important qualification: Articles that compare views should not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views, and will generally not include tiny-minority views at all." If anything this supports inclusion of much of the material that's been removed or that you've tried to exclude as they are "significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source." Reggie Perrin (talk) 07:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Summary style versus POV fork

Hello, Flatscan. You have new messages at Viriditas's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

[edit] Taser controversy

I'm wondering if you could give your input at Talk:Taser_controversy#Renaming_this_article.3F where I've suggested renaming the Taser controversy article? I think a new name would help define and focus the article and would also help us with the main Taser article. Thanks. Reggie Perrin (talk) 06:26, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I have no objections to contacting the editors who contributed to the AFD so I think if both of us are ok with that that should be fine. We should probably contact all the editors, though, with a neutral message such as "Thank you for you input on the recent AFD on Taser controversy. The editors involved with that article would like to continue the discussion on how to proceed and invite you to join the discussion at Talk:Taser controversy." As long as the message left on editor's talk pages is neutral and as long as all editors are contacted (rather than a selective sample) then there shouldn't be any problem as far as WP:Canvassing - particularly if we're both in agreement on reaching out in this way. Reggie Perrin (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for my closure; I'm trying to expand my abilities, and I should of thought that out more. Incredibly sorry, and happy editing, Leonard^(Bloom) 23:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Re contacting editors - looks good to me. Reggie Perrin (talk) 01:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ze da Vinci Barnstar!

		The da Vinci Barnstar
		For your excellent work creating Template:Talkarchivehist, which will allow us to increase the transparency of talk page archiving, I award you the da Vinci Barnstar! –xenocidic (talk) 03:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I'll definitely use it next time I archive a talk page. cheers, –xenocidic (talk) 14:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lodoss to Senki

That's good info. I requested a history merge because it should be done, and as it stands the redir is going to be kept, I think. MSJapan (talk) 21:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

The way I read the instructions, the template goes on the article you want to get rid of (which is usually newer, except in this case, where it's the older Lodoss to Senki redirect/article), and it gets moved into the article space of the article you want to keep (which gets deleted and recreated, and in this case is Record of Lodoss War). If it was the other way around it would require a merge of history and a page move back to the Lodoss War title, which almost defeats the purpose of the merge in the first place, I think. Maybe get someone else more familiar with the process to look at it? MSJapan (talk) 22:59, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Flatscan and MSJapan. Please see Template:Db-histmerge. It instructs editors to "Place this template on the target article, ie. the page where the text was pasted into." I believe the template should have been put on Record of Lodoss War instead. However, it is not too important as admins will review relevant discussions, and the histories of the two (or sometimes more) pages needing to be merged together. As for this case, I figured out the correct page you wanted to stay because of the RfD. Also, as an alternative, you may put Template:Db-copypaste on the page "from which the content was taken.", which would have been Lodoss to Senki. Best, --PeaceNT (talk) 04:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No problem at all

Absolutely no problem at all - I'm a bit hopeless when it comes to all that sort of stuff - it's just the page was getting a bit long to deal with. em... while you are at it.. you don't mind seeing if I did the archive right at the Martian ManHunter page do you? I'd be very grateful. --Allemandtando (talk) 08:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I added the template to both Talk:Lyme disease/Archive 2 and Talk:Martian Manhunter/Archive 1. Both of those archives look fine to me. Flatscan (talk) 00:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Adrenergic storm

Hi - thanks for spotting the unsupported info about Tasers in the article. I have amended the Did You Know? hook accordingly (see here). Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 11:00, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I just wanted to extend my gratitude to you and everyone else for helping out with the Adrenergic Storm article. It was awesome (and, admittedly, quite unexpected) for the new article to garner any attention at all, much less appear on the front page! I'm quite honored but it wouldn't be there if it weren't for ya'll. Thanks again and happy wiki'ing - Mr0t1633 (talk) 00:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merging question

I figure that if your question did not get answered, maybe a fresh poke at the sleeping dog might wake it up. I don't particularly care where the question is either way. If you feel a burning need to keep the conversation together, I won't object if you move it. SDY (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Dziekański

I think that Robert Dziekański was killed by terrorists. Why delete this category of the article? --212.183.251.103 (talk) 00:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I have responded at Talk:Robert Dziekański Taser incident#Terrorism. Flatscan (talk) 03:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NYPD subway sodomy scandal

I've seen you around the Sean Bell article so I thought this might be of interest to you. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 07:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I've been following the case since it broke in late October. I have some thoughts and sources that I'll collect. Flatscan (talk) 04:42, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Third Opinion on Taser Incident

Greetings, pursuant to a request on the Third Opinion Noticeboard: I added my opinion to the article's talk page. I hope that my comments help to resolve the dispute. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 17:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I will follow up at the article's Talk page. Flatscan (talk) 06:06, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] January 7th Riots, Oakland, California

Hi, I speedy keep the discussion following the criteria in WP:NAC about the WP:Snowball clause. Thanks, --J.Mundo (talk) 06:11, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Dziekański

Would like your reasoning against naming the officers involved in this event. I don't see this sort of censorship at BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant‎, or NYPD subway sodomy scandal. Cheers. RomaC (talk) 15:13, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I assume that this comment is regarding my reversion of an edit by 66.183.46.229. The officer's name was actually the last of a number of reasons, but I included it in my edit summary to indicate that it was removed in the undo.

1. The parenthetical statements contained editorializing and wording that could indicate original research.
2. The edit was not sourced.
3. The name did not add value where it was.
4. (I noticed this later) The first name does not match the name you provided in Talk:Robert Dziekański Taser incident#Officer charged with impaired driving causing death.

One may see that I did not remove your addition of the names. I left a comment in the existing section Talk:Robert Dziekański Taser incident#Names of officers. If you wish to continue the discussion, please comment there. Thanks. Flatscan (talk) 06:13, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] WQA

You might want to see WP:WQA for Ikip's complaints against Collect and THF, and THF's complaint against Ikip. Collect (talk) 00:37, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Since I do not have full understanding of the content dispute or the specific behavioral issues, I do not plan to contribute at the WQA. I did notice a number of Ikip's edits that I thought were characteristically questionable. Are you interested in participating in the RfC? Flatscan (talk) 04:04, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] OK...

There - it is here now User:Flatscan/List of Neopets species. I am not sure where this should end up but is userfied with history intact now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Which reminds me.....

[edit] Happy Easter!

On behalf of the Kindness campaign, I just wanted to wish my fellow Wikipedians a Happy Easter! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 06:05, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Crediting People?

I would prefer if you were to do it, because I surely would screw up in a way that would cause a crashing of some sort. :) Thank you! CarpetCrawler^{message me} 05:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

		The Minor Barnstar
		For helping me with the minor, but to me complicated task of moving the Curtains article. Thank you so much! :) CarpetCrawlermessage me 19:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar. Feel free to contact me if you come across a similar issue in the future. Flatscan (talk) 04:16, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Added diff

I added a diff, you are welcome to remove. I am also confused by your bullet points. Ikip (talk) 03:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. Normally I include diffs, but the AfD was very short. Feel free to let me know if I should explain more. Flatscan (talk) 03:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

That page is not very active, maybe a post on WP:VPP linking to it? Thanks Ikip (talk) 04:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

You're right, done. Flatscan (talk) 03:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Concerns

Response to this comment at User talk:Ikip. Additional response in edit summary there. Moved into separate section, added diffs.

Please do not post on my page again, thank you. Ikip (talk) 06:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Received and acknowledged. I will honor your request, including optional or recommended notifications, but I will post notifications if required by Wikipedia process. Flatscan (talk) 04:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Draft

I'm setting up a transparant draft of the RfC/U we discussed earlier here. You're welcome to edit the page as you see fit. Discussion can take place on the talk page there. ThemFromSpace 08:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Ikip is self-blocked until August. Since this is the exact same thing he did last time we tried to set up an RfC I think we should continue through with this for procedural purposes, even if he can't reply there. He can't leave when others grow suspicious of his edits and return like nothing ever happened. ThemFromSpace 13:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the messages. I agree with not rewarding a pattern of developing action → leave of absence → no action, but 72 days is long, over 5 times the length of his last break. I'll think this over and get back to you. Flatscan (talk) 04:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

See WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/A Man In Black/Workshop#Ikip added as a party and WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/A Man In Black#Involved parties (diff). I intend to add detailed evidence on the pattern of borderline canvassing and behaviors related to those incidents. Flatscan (talk) 04:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Is the canvassing spree within the scope of the arbitration case? I thought the case was centered around AMIB's actions directed at Ikip. Go ahead and add your evidence if you feel it helps with the case and if it seems acceptable than I could back it up with my own findings. ThemFromSpace 03:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it's relevant as an expansion of WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/A Man In Black/Evidence#Canvassing as presented by Steel. It would show a pattern in Ikip's behavior and concern from users besides AMIB in the lead-up to AMIB's block of Ikip. At worst, I would blank the sections judged to be outside the scope, and the presentation would be ready to copy to a future RfC. I will probably not have time to finalize my evidence before Saturday (at the deadline), but I could write an outline if it would be useful to you. Flatscan (talk) 03:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, in that case you should go ahead and put in your evidence (I think you had more direct interactions with him regarding this than I have). I'm still considering posting evidence there as well. ThemFromSpace 04:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Bastille Day!

Dear fellow Wikipedian, I just want to wish you a Happy Bastille Day, whether you are French, Republican or not!  :) Happy Editing! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 17:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Your comments

Response to this comment at User talk:MSJapan.

Yes, I saw that, which is why I struck the comment, but upon further consideration, no clear decision had been reached in that thread at the time you made the request, and now you have a talk page for a deleted page which took forever to have removed even in the face of policy violations, and for which it seems the rationale was "to know why it was deleted". This information should be in the article's deletion message placed by the admin as part of WP's SOP. So, I'm not sure why we need to retain orphan talk pages to convey this information, other than to cause real problems with re-creating content that was deleted "because, well, it's got a talk page, so it should have an article". This also means we have to keep talk pages to hoaxes, vandalism, attack pages, and a lot of other things that are specifically prohibited by policy so we "know why they were deleted". In my book, that's a nightmare - it means all that stuff needs to be watched, because it's no longer redlinked in the watchlists. I would much rather have seen a clear decision reached by the admins as a group before you went out unilaterally and asked for undeletion of pages, as it seems that no one else had really done that, and I really think it's a can of worms. MSJapan (talk) 13:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Given that the discussion went to archive without anyone even really answering your last question, and Uncle G's rationale was odd (he claimed deletion adds to the DB, but not deleting doesn't, because pages are cheap? There's a load somewhere either in query or bandwidth or storage space; 1 byte multiplied a couple of trillion times is still over a gigabyte), and that no one made a decision, it might be wise to revoke your request and open a formal policy discussion - I still think this is wikilawyering in that it's semantics and not practicality involved. MSJapan (talk) 13:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

As suggested, I have started a discussion at WT:Criteria for speedy deletion#Does G8 apply to the Talk page of redirected articles?. The AN discussion was mostly agreement that aligned with what I had read in the past, so I regarded it as an affirmation of existing consensus, not a new consensus. I had trouble following many of your points, but I will write a more extensive reply if you request. Flatscan (talk) 04:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Discussion archived to WT:Criteria for speedy deletion/Archive 35#Does G8 apply to the Talk page of redirected articles?. General agreement was that "significant discussion" or "meaningful edit history" should be kept, with support for deleting pages containing only project banners. Flatscan (talk) 04:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Not to play semantics, and I don't remember the entirety of the thread, but in this case, the article was merged first and then redirected. Does that make a difference wrt G8? MSJapan (talk) 15:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The merge's content copy should be attributed using {{Copied}}. It does not make a difference if the AfD template is considered "meaningful" on its own. Flatscan (talk) 03:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Talkback

Hello, Flatscan. You have new messages at Talk:What If (Coldplay song).
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Dylan620 (contribs, logs) 14:37, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for cleaning up the mess I made merging cookie dough bites with cookie dough. I dream of horses @ 13:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, it was no problem. Considering how confusing the merge instructions are – despite my intermittent editing there – you did a good job on your first try. I've prioritized rewriting the instructions and any feedback would be helpful. Flatscan (talk) 04:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Dramaonly

I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 00:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation, but I will decline. My approach to discussion is deliberate and often slow. I will see if there are open discussions on my watched pages that need revisiting. Flatscan (talk) 03:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Labor Day!

Dear colleague, I just want to wish you a happy, hopefully, extended holiday weekend and nice end to summer! Your friend, --A Nobody^{My talk} 02:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Flatscan. You have new messages at Moonriddengirl's talk page.
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[edit] Euchre

• Thanks a million for your prompt reply.
  I'm an editor writing on card games, which is my field, and I've been entirely devoted to this for the past thirty years of my life.
  There's an article on Wiki created to allocated different versions of Euchre. Can you move Five-Handed Euchre to Euchre variations (there's an entry there for five players) and delete Five-Handed Euchre (Bid) ? Krenakarore (talk) 06:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC) !
  • I think there's a little confusion that discussion might help. I started Talk:Euchre variations#Merging Five-Handed Euchre. Flatscan (talk) 04:54, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Diane Schuler

You may be right, but I really do think it's time to move on. I suspect it may be nominated soon enough, but items still in the news make terrible AfD nominations. Bearian (talk) 12:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, but it appears to be directed at Backslash Forwardslash's question. Flatscan (talk) 03:46, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] User:Flatscan/Copying within Wikipedia

I've expanded it some. Sorry for the delay! I missed your note. Good direction? Bad direction? I want to include some material on how to repair improperly done copies and have sort of outlined it. Oh, and your outlines are still there, but <!--hidden-->. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 20:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks great! Repairing improperly done copies should be covered, but I haven't given it much thought. My limited experience is that they're difficult even to detect. Almost all of my repair work has been converting properly done merges into "deluxe" ones with oldids. Flatscan (talk) 03:52, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I've done a little more development and created a template (see it tested at the talk). I run into improper copying relatively routinely through CP work, since Corensearchbot does pick up copies of Wikipedia mirrors. I don't know about "deluxe" repairs. :) At some point, we should consider moving this into project space and proposing it at least as a guideline. It would be nice to incorporate Merge & Split by reference, since these do not currently have guideline status. Would you like to get wider feedback before taking that step? Or do you think it needs more incubation and development before we seek wider feedback? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:59, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I think it's near-ready (another week?) for moving into WP space and presenting to knowledgeable editors. The order doesn't matter to me, but some users may be hesitant to edit as long as it's in my user space. Once a local consensus is established, we can consider community feedback. I believe it should be a guideline, but if its promotion fails, the {{infopage}} box at the top of WP:Copy-paste looks about right. The "deluxe" thing is a pet project and a distraction at this point – I'll write a separate page for it eventually. Flatscan (talk) 03:25, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I've been poking at the page without making much progress. User:Moonriddengirl/Uw-copying looks fine, but I don't have much experience with uw templates. Regarding the merge/split page(s), I saw How Wikipedia Works recommended by an editor – the Merge, Split, and Move section may be helpful. Flatscan (talk) 01:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

If you feel this is ready for review, I'd be happy to move it and publicize it. We are in desperate need of it. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Since I think it's ready for wider review, I moved the page to WP:Copying within Wikipedia. Please contact your knowledgeable colleagues, maybe post to WT:WikiProject Copyright Cleanup? I think it needs more polish before a listing in the Signpost or guideline promotion. Flatscan (talk) 03:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The topic came up at WP:Village pump (policy)#Policy against duplicating text between articles?. I think the page isn't ready for VPP either, just yet. Flatscan (talk) 03:08, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

What more do you think the page needs?

There aren't that many people who read the COPYCLEAN group, but I can ask. (I don't think we need a signpost listing; so far as I know, consensus at VPP should be enough.) I will wait to pump it if you aren't ready. So far as I know, it should be a fairly straightforward conversation. It's not proposing any new rules, but simply explaining what already exists. :) I did put the "proposal" tag on it, though. Since it's in mainspace, we have to make clear that it's not a policy or guideline yet. Even though it doesn't have a policy tag, its presence might otherwise confuse users. I'll ask at WP:COPYCLEAN. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 10:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm probably overly cautious. My main worry is that unfamiliar = CREEP for some editors, even if the page is strictly explanatory. Flatscan (talk) 03:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Just a quick note to say that I think this page is much needed & will look it over later today. (About to leave the house now). --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:08, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, more eyes are definitely welcome. Flatscan (talk) 03:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

←I'd like to village pump this now. It's been here a while, and I have need of it on a regular basis. Do you mind? --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Please go ahead. The new RfC proposal category ({{rfctag|prop}}) may be useful also. I've been working on it at a glacial pace, and I have no desire to delay your real work. Flatscan (talk) 03:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I have gone ahead. :) We've gotten some feedback at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia, rather than at the proposal's talk page, where I expected it. I think I will RfC it, though perhaps we should talk about the interwiki question raised at the pump first. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Merging during live AfD (from Julian's talk)

Hi,

I notice your request for Julian to review WT:Articles for deletion#Merging during live AfD and close it. I would close it myself, but I already closed one voluminous discussion so I'm not up for reading another. :) Anyway, I thought you should know the "normal" place to request an admin review a discussion is WP:AN. (You were correct that WP:ANI wouldn't be a good place to put it.) Hope that helps, ThaddeusB (talk) 04:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I know that AN was the place to post such requests. There was a proposal around two months ago to move specific requests to AN/I: WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive199#Use of this page, implemented with the AN editnotice and {{ANImove}}. Having read your note, I see that there are requests posted and fulfilled at AN – I'll probably try there in the future. Flatscan (talk) 03:25, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Your question at RFC/U/AN

re this I think FeydHuxtable is referring to User:Frei Hans and the fallout from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Telepathy and war, sockpuppet investigations and all.

My take on what happened there does not entirely coincide with that of Mr. Huxtable.  pablo_hablo. 21:29, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the link – I remember seeing it at DRV. From my review, I probably agree more with your view of what happened. My opinion is that endorsing without looking into the backstory is careless, but the anecdote isn't critical to FeydHuxtable's section. Flatscan (talk) 04:39, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Euchre articles

• Five-Handed Euchre has already been trimmed and moved into the proper article on Euchre variations. It is there for your appreciation (I know you're busy, but let us put an end to this). Five-Handed Euchre (Bid) is a variation for five players and it needs to be moved into Bid euchre, which is a modality of Euchre, as you know.
• Another thing is, Euchre variations deals with methodology and technical terms (it all started like this). A different article needs to be created for this purpose, so that we may leave Euchre variations only for variations in play.
• There's a Pfeffer entry (and Double hasenpfeffer too) on Bid euchre, and another entry on Euchre variations called Hasenpfeffer (which is Pfeffer with minor differences anyway). It should be moved to Bid Euchre too because it's description fits Bid euchre.
• I could do that Flat, but I feel I need to take it up with somebody like you, so it sounds more like a legal movement from my part. Let us clean up the articles pal, and remove all those redundant tags too. Krenakarore (talk) 17:42, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Hi Krenakarore, good to hear from you. Since you merged it, I can take care of making Five-Handed Euchre into a redirect with all the appropriate tags. Regarding the other reorganizations, you can be bold and go ahead, or I can help with tagging and creating discussions. Seeing our prior experience, they may not get any participation. I apologize that I lack the subject expertise to be more directly helpful. Flatscan (talk) 03:19, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

• Hi Flatscan, here is today's "bold" list:

1. Five-Handed Euchre was merged to Euchre variations at last.
2. Another page called Euchre regional variations was created, and moved to Euchre game variations, to alocate the variations listed on Euchre variations page, which is now listing only variations on rules and game terminology.
3. The Hasenpfeffer variation, previously listed on Euchre variations page, was merged to Bid Euchre, according to its classification (This variation is, by all means, plain Bid Euchre).
4. Five-Handed Euchre (Bid) was merged to Bid Euchre too.
5. Dirty clubs was merged to Bid Euchre as well.

Can you please place the "copied|from=source|to=destination|diff=permanent diff" tag on the talk page of each of the links listed above to clarify this "wild" move for me, because the stupid guy here can't get the meaning of "diff=permanent diff".

Oh, by the way, no more blue.....:) ! 2005 had already advised me to comply with the manual of style. I got him in great account, you know. Thanks for all help provided pal. Krenakarore (talk) 13:31, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I think I did all of them. Please check my work. Flatscan (talk) 02:24, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• Wonderful piece of work Flatscan ! Your help is not only necessary, but also indispensable. I have now learned something more from you. Thank you once more, thank you once again. Krenakarore (talk) 11:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm happy to help. After you confirmed, I wrote "deluxe" (no one else does them) edit summaries, in case something happens to the talk page tags. Feel free to contact me for this type of work in the future. Flatscan (talk) 01:30, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Halloween!

Photograph of my Halloween-themed Hush Puppies plush basset hounds in my bedroom.

As Halloween is my favorite holiday, I just wanted to wish those Wikipedians who have been nice enough to give me a barnstar or smile at me, supportive enough to agree with me, etc., a Happy Halloween! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 23:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] AFD merging essay

In response to this message Flatscan (talk) 03:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer but I'm not someone who is any good at writing essays or particularly interested in writing them. Don;t let it stop yourself from writing one though. Davewild (talk) 08:30, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Your post at WP:AN

Hello Flatscan. Please see my comment at WP:AN#Request discussion closure. EdJohnston (talk) 17:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I have replied there. Flatscan (talk) 06:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Since you are the one who opened the most recent thread at WT:AFD, I wonder what you expected would happen if all the participating editors supported your view of the merge-during-AfD rules? Did you figure that consensus in that thread would be endorsing a wider policy change? If so, what documents did you think would change? Possibly WP:Deletion policy? I don't see any recent discussion of merge-during-AfD in the Talk archives of WP:Deletion policy. (Not that I think your approach is wrong, I just want to know what you thought was the issue at stake). EdJohnston (talk) 04:42, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, I think you are *not* proposing a change in the deletion policy. What you say when opening the new section called Merging during live AfD is that you want to see if current consensus affirms this guidance. So if the commenters in the thread *support* your view, then the existing paragraph in WP:GD will be kept unchanged. And in that event, we know that the community still wants merging during live AfD to be handled the way that paragraph says. The reason you raised this question is presumably that you have seen some *merges* taking place during live AfDs and you want to tell people that this is against consensus of the community. Yes? EdJohnston (talk) 00:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for volunteering to read through the discussions and for the reading that you've already done. The short answer is "Yes": you pretty much nailed it. Longer answers follow below. I think that it might be best to centralize these closing sub-discussions at WT:AFD. Flatscan (talk) 04:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

What is the desired outcome? 

Excerpt from original discussion prompt: WP:Guide to deletion#You may edit the article during the discussion advises against merging content from an article at AfD, suggesting that editor wait until the AfD is closed. Since Guide to deletion has low activity, I'm starting a discussion here to see if current consensus affirms this guidance. I observed editors merging/copying from articles with open AfDs, sometimes with undesirable effects on the live discussions. There are a few examples sprinkled throughout the discussion. If the guidance is affirmed, one will be able to approach these editors with a long-standing reference page backed by current consensus. IAR would be possible, but invoking it should require superior justification. The current item in Guide to deletion should be sufficient unless such merging becomes significantly more common. A possible new location is WP:Articles for deletion#AfD Wikietiquette, which mentions potential confusion from moves.

Why hold the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion? 

This discussion is most relevant to AfD (perhaps MfD for userspace drafts or userfied articles; possibly DRV) and not very relevant to CSD or PROD. WT:AFD is relatively high-traffic, with many watchers.

Flatscan (talk) 04:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for your reply.
• I would also like to make a list of all the live-merging AfD cases that the editors could have had in mind while this discussion took place. The ones I've pinned down so far are:

• WP:Articles for deletion/Jimmy Patterson

This was cited by Jack Merridew as an example of 'Merging during an AfD as a highly disruptive tactic used with the aim of precluding a delete outcome'. In that AfD, Jack left a comment citing this edit by A Nobody as being a disruptive use of merging to forestall a delete outcome. See the top of Talk:Jimmy Patterson to see the three {{copied}} templates placed by A Nobody which state "Jimmy Patterson now serves to provide attribution for content in Medal of Honor (video game) and must not be deleted so long as Medal of Honor (video game) exists."

• WP:Articles for deletion/A Place With No Name (2nd nomination)

This was cited by Flatscan: 'Despite a split consensus, the nominator performed a merger and requested a speedy close'. Pokerdance did the merge to Michael Jackson here, and then Unionhawk did a close of the AfD with the result 'Content has been merged.' There was some protest of this near the end of the AfD discussion. In fact, due to objections Unionhawk opened up a third AfD nomination on his own, declaring that he'd not been aware that the previous nominator (Pokerdance) had done the merge himself.

• WP:Articles for deletion/Ra Cailum class battleship

This was cited by KrebMarkt, as an example of a general pattern whereby a project that has such articles on its clean-up/merge list will probably accelerate its merge efforts, thus hijacking the outcome of the AfD. Though the merge was done 'early', during the AfD, the discussion seemed to have a merge consensus anyway, by that point, though seven days had not elapsed.

• Do you know of any other widely-known live-merging AfD cases that these editors could have been thinking of, even if I missed seeing them in the discussion?

• I notice that Template:Copied is new as of July, and was created by Moonriddengirl, so is unlikely to have been intended as a partisan move in the AfD wars. Someone who places that template on the target article when performing a live merge does seem to be vetoing a Delete closure on the currently-open AfD of the source article, since it states 'XXX must not be deleted so long as YYY exists.' I see that not everyone records the source of any merged material in the target article, though the {{oldafdfull}} template, when recording a Merge closure and when placed on the Talk page of the redirect, may have some benefit in reminding people of the source of the merged content. Of course, by its nature an Oldafdfull is only placed *after* the AfD is over, so won't be used in a live merge. EdJohnston (talk) 06:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Those three AfDs are the only ones linked directly from the discussion. I have reordered them by date of linking:

1. WP:Articles for deletion/A Place With No Name (2nd nomination) Flatscan 04:09, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
2. WP:Articles for deletion/Jimmy Patterson Jack Merridew 06:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
3. WP:Articles for deletion/Ra Cailum class battleship KrebMarkt 19:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The link to Jimmy Patterson was pivotal, as it linked to other AfDs involving a specific user performing similar edits and probably caused a change in the tone of the discussion. Having reviewed the early discussion, I believe that while several users demonstrated familiarity with the topic, they were unaware of these specific AfDs prior to them being linked.

Moonriddengirl created {{Copied}} during Help talk:Merging#Best practice, a discussion that I started. There are rarely-used workarounds to the "must not be deleted" wording, covered by WP:Merge and delete and WP:Copying within Wikipedia. {{afd-merged-from}} is the normal AfD merge template, but it does not have any of that wording, probably because it is placed by a bot as soon as the page is redirected.

I used the affectation "a specific user" above. The discussion was clearly affected by his involvement (as topic and participant), but (in my opinion) it was not tainted.

Flatscan (talk) 03:56, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

As I review the tally of !votes, by those who picked one of the numbered options from the RfC, I get the following:

• Option 1: 2 votes
• Option 2: 0 votes
• Option 3: 2 votes
• Option 4: 17 votes
• Option 5: 2 votes

This leaves out a few people whose votes straddled some of the options. I'll have to summarize them in the text. If when we are all done, this numerical count seems to accurately capture the sense of the discussion, do you think that would imply that the wording of WP:GD should be changed? Your question in the RfC was only "When is it appropriate to merge content from an article at AfD?" The Guide currently says Use extreme caution when live-merging. That sounds a lot like the wording of Option 4, almost never, with very limited exceptions. I do perceive that some people think that alternative attribution schemes are possible (copying the history), and that might lead to another caveat tacked on the end. It will take another reading to see if consensus thinks that the alternate attributions are credible. EdJohnston (talk) 06:25, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the "extreme caution" wording is in line with Option 4. If Option 4 is determined to be the consensus view, it would support the current strong wording of the Guide's recommendation. I think that alternate attribution was insufficiently discussed and that the input of knowledgeable (in copyright and attribution) editors should be sought before mentioning it and thus encouraging its use. The method descriptions in WP:Merge and delete note that they are rarely used; I know of only one recent non-transwiki use: WT:WikiProject International relations/Bilateral relations task force#Merge and delete, which may not have been implemented. Although the existing caveat "unless there is a strong case for merge under the deletion policy" was not covered exactly at WT:AFD, I think it would be consistent to remove it as a loophole – if the case is truly strong, it will be convincing and reflected in the AfD's consensus – after discussion at WT:Guide to deletion#You may edit the article during the discussion. Flatscan (talk) 04:40, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

The draft of my closing opinion is available for comments at User talk:EdJohnston#Draft WT:AFD closing opinion on live merges. EdJohnston (talk) 01:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I left comments there. Flatscan (talk) 03:52, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Now that I've seen your latest there, I think the draft is ready for general review. I am planning to post a link at WP:AN and WT:AFD on Monday, asking for any further comments. I still don't see any mandate for changing the 'live-merge' paragraph in WP:GD, since the present language sounds very much like the wording of Option 4. (There were two comments on my Talk page about that, one by Chaser and another by Jack Merridew, but I didn't see enough reason for a change based on what people said in the discussion). EdJohnston (talk) 05:18, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good, I'll keep watching. The lack of wording discussion was a failure of the framing of the question; while inconvenient, a separate discussion is probably appropriate. Flatscan (talk) 05:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Since both you and Chaser seem to think the guidance on live merges is still ambiguous, I've made a new version here: User talk:EdJohnston#Third version for your comments. Let me know what you think. We should perhaps ask one or two participants from the original debate if this is within their expectations. EdJohnston (talk) 16:41, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

See WT:AFD#Review of my close of the WP:RFC on live merges. I'll leave this up for 48 hours for a final round of comments. This version has been tweaked to make the prose more clear. EdJohnston (talk) 05:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I commented on the fourth version. Flatscan (talk) 03:38, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving!

I just wanted to wish those Wikipedians who have been nice enough to give me a barnstar or smile at me, supportive enough to agree with me, etc., a Happy Thanksgiving! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 15:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Kiss all the boys histpurge

So, if I'm understanding this right, the history of the infobox tweaks by Nopockyforkitty [3] will be retained? --Malkinann (talk) 05:17, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, all edits after TheFarix's removal on 8 January 2009 should be unaffected. If anything differs from what I expect, I'll follow up with the admin who performs the histpurge. Flatscan (talk) 05:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The plot section added by Nopockyforkitty is similar to the publisher's copy and should probably also be histpurged. --Malkinann (talk) 05:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I apologize, I missed that. I fixed the template's parameter. Flatscan (talk) 06:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] On deleting a redirect

The thread in question is marked resolved now, but I wanted to follow up regarding your comment here. Looking quickly at the essay and guideline you cite there, I did not notice anything that suggested that a redirect cannot be deleted even if the merged content was removed. Maybe I'm missing something but if so can you point me to it? I was probably going to start an RfD to try to get rid of the thing, as to me it is rather bizarre for Asa Seeley, upon being typed into the search box, to lead a reader to an article about a train station where there is no info about the person in question (though apparently that point is still somewhat up for debate, unfortunately). --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 08:05, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest. I investigated the situation further and can give you specific information. WP:Copying within Wikipedia#Reusing deleted material describes why deleted material cannot be reused; consider the contrapositive: since the content was already copied, its source article cannot be deleted. Removal of the copied content has no effect, as it is still visible in the page history. This applies to most cases, but the relevant content here has a less common history, as it was merged back into its original article.

• User:Sebwite added a paragraph about the incident to West Baltimore (MARC station).
• That paragraph was split to Asa Seeley and removed from West Baltimore (MARC station) by 72.93.211.101.
• Sebwite added a 1-sentence update to Asa Seeley.
• Following the AfD, Sebwite merged the content back.

If Asa Seeley were deleted, there would be no attribution for this sentence written by Sebwite. Possible actions:

1. Do nothing, leaving the Asa Seeley redirect in article space.
2. Remove the page from article space using a method suggested by WP:Merge and delete. Rarely used.
3. Attribute that sentence to Sebwite using a dummy edit summary and delete the redirect. Considering that it is one sentence edited once by one editor, I think this is acceptable, but I would need to check with an editor experienced with copyright. Articles usually have more editors, making this method difficult in most cases.

Please let me know if my explanation is insufficient. Flatscan (talk) 05:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Rickroll vandal block notice

{{uw-rickrollblock}}, aka {{rickroll}}. Enjoy. — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 08:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Merry Christmas

A Nobody^{My talk} is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:Flaming/MC2008}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

To those who make Good Arguments, who are appreciative, or supportive. Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 03:53, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

[edit] I would welcome your assistance

See: [4]

I created a break out session regarding the BLP issue. I think we really need someone who has the incredible gift that you do to look up all past policy decisions so we can know which ideas are bound to fail, and which have a chance to suceed. Ikip 18:57, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment. I'm not sure that I will be able to help with all the proposals, but I'll start with WP:Article Incubator and WP:Userfication:

• Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Archive 57#Userification without creators consent but with nominators consent 13 September 2009
  • Discussion of userfication's shortcomings, leading to creation of Article Incubator
  • Issues with userfying to a non-consenting (possibly absent/retired) user's space
• Wikipedia talk:Twinkle/Archive 17#Adding userfication to Twinkle 13 September 2009 – concerns regarding hasty or mass userfication
• WP:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 53#Easier/better userfication 16 October 2009
  • Converted to WP:Requests for comment/userfication 22 October 2009 – User:Rd232, who has been active at the current RfC
• WP:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 57#To disable the immediate indexing of unpatrolled pages into Google search 10 December 2009 – incubation compared to hiding pages in article space

Flatscan (talk) 04:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Added your valuable research here: Past_proposals_to_userfy_and_incubate I would really welcome more of your valuable input, DGG for example has a good starting proposal. I copied Themfromspace's suprising proposal from the BLP RFC also, and we are discussing whether that is viable.

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		The Barnstar of Diligence may be awarded in recognition of a combination of extraordinary scrutiny, precision and community service. This barnstar is awarded to Flatscan, for his incredible research abilities, which assist wikipedia in so many ways, thank you. Ikip 16:06, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar. I'm sort of waiting for Phase 2 of the BLP RfC, but I'll take a look if I have some free time. Flatscan (talk) 04:39, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

your welcome :) phase two is up, more of the same, sigh...

Please review this "projectification" proposal, to see if it is something the community would support. Harsh constructive criticism is very welcome! Better now than later. I am looking to remedy any potential objections by the community. Your opinion is especially vital as someone who tends to have different views than me.

Thanks. Okip (formerly Ikip) 03:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Some quick thoughts: Incubation-style proposals saw lukewarm reception. A new process requires implementation and creates complexity that both sides distrust. Concerns over implementation could be addressed by finding a "sponsor" – someone technically proficient who commits to implementing the dedicated page space, the tools, and the bot. Flatscan (talk) 05:06, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

I replied on my talk page: User talk:Ucucha#Copied templates. Ucucha 13:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Merge and delete

Hi. Your bot corrected a grammatical error in WP:Merge and delete. However, it is within an excerpt from WP:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License, with the error present in the original. Thanks. Flatscan (talk) 04:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Flatscan, duly noted. I'll add a bot exception so it won't try to correct it again. Cheers, CmdrObot (talk) 22:41, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Final discussion for Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Hello, I note that you have commented on the first phase of Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

As this RFC closes, there are two proposals being considered:

1. Proposal to Close This RfC
2. Alternate proposal to close this RFC: we don't need a whole new layer of bureaucracy

Your opinion on this is welcome. Okip 02:17, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 February 28#Simple Instant Messenger

Hi, Flatscan. Because you participated in Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 January 14, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 February 28#Simple Instant Messenger. Cunard (talk) 08:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] List of Resident Evil characters

Hi Flatscan,

Thanks for picking up on my mistake. I've tried to make the dummy edit twice, but it's not showing up. If you wouldn't mind doing it or, alternatively, telling me how to do it, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Neelix (talk) 11:58, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Flatscan,

I got it to work; I hadn't realized that you had to actually make a change on the page.

Happy editing,

Neelix (talk) 14:04, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Talkback

Hello, Flatscan. You have new messages at Pohta ce-am pohtit's talk page.
Message added 04:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Pcap ping 04:29, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Re: List of Homer Simpson's jobs

I didn't know about that template, but it's perfectly suited to this type of situation. Thanks! -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 20:44, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Paradigging

Hello, Flatscan. You have new messages at Arbitrarily0's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks again! Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 21:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Diabetes in dogs

Thanks so much for having a look at the page! My main worry was getting it done right by Wikipedia standards. At Wikia, when the page needs to be split, you just do it in a way (hopefully) ;-) that makes sense.

We hope (talk) 14:38, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration motion regarding Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/A Nobody

Per a motion at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case:

This case is accepted, but will not be opened unless and until A Nobody (talk · contribs) returns to Wikipedia. If A Nobody does so under any account or I.P., he/she is required to notify the Committee.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ~ Amory (u • t • c) 23:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Discuss this

[edit] Diabetes in dogs

Had originally intended to copy the dog-specific material from the cats and dogs page and then work with it. As I started, realized there were a lot of things not directly addressed that needed to be, so yes, there are some sentences and parts of the cats and dogs page on the new dogs one.

Thought about putting a split tag on the cats and dogs page to indicate the page split into separate pages for dogs and cats, moving the cats and dogs page to Diabetes in cats and removing the dog information to avoid any confusion. As it is right now, it's a jumble of them both; hope someone with hands-on feline experience would take the cats page from there, as there are some comments on the talk page re: lack of other options/treatment opinions being presented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Diabetes_in_cats_and_dogs#Very_partial_article

Thanks again for all your help!!!!

We hope (talk) 15:17, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Christine Shin

I already listed the article. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 11:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] AfD rename

Is it going forward or not? I integrated some of the changes into WP:SK but it doesn't look like anything else is changing. Gigs (talk) 15:52, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for making those updates to SK. I've been meaning to discuss with you whether they should be left or reverted. The rename/scope change seems to have stalled again after some brief interest last month (User talk:DGG#Articles for Discussion, when I created the tag). Flatscan (talk) 04:15, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Renaming AfD itself is going to be a developer or bot request, isn't it? It's probably got what, 50,000 subpages? More? Gigs (talk) 20:46, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

There are over 200,000 AfD subpages as of 2 January 2010. Flatscan (talk) 07:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC) I'm not sure of the details, but it requires some sort of technical assistance. I see that you've commented at WT:Articles for deletion/Proposal 1. I feel that the details have not been fleshed out and am reluctant to make any effort towards implementing the change. Flatscan (talk) 04:21, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I've reverted my changes from WP:SK and removed the tag about the migration. Gigs (talk) 12:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that's better than having a guideline page sit in limbo indefinitely. Apologies for leading you into making those updates in the first place. Flatscan (talk) 04:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Picture of the day photo credits

Hi Flatscan, I have appreciated your interest and helpfulness relating to Wikipedia's WP:Copyrights. I would be interested to read your thoughts on our practices of credit and attribution on images, focused on the high quality pictures, at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Picture of the day photo credits. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:01, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for noticing. I skimmed that discussion after seeing it on {{cent}}, and I read through it just now. Unfortunately, my experience is limited to text, which is treated differently from images and other media by the Terms of Use (pointed out by agr). I will take another look, but I may not have any insights. Flatscan (talk) 04:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Since I am unfamiliar with the topic, I will reserve comment for now. I am interested in reading further discussion along the lines of your section. Flatscan (talk) 04:36, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Me too. I only came across the topic through my regular reading of WP:CORD. My interest here comes through my appreciation of the wisdom of User:Jimbo Wales/Statement of principles/5. The long-term success of the site, like other open source projects that impress me, requires that we adhere very strictly to both the letter and spirit of the licenses. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:52, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] WP:COPY

I responded to your comment. I guess I didn't make my intentions clear.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] rfar note

As the filer of the case-in-abeyance re A Nobody, you should be notified that there's a new request up. There's also a lot of stuff on meta talk pages, especially Rlevse's and Risker's. Cheers, Jack Merridew 21:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, I left a note there. Flatscan (talk) 04:40, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the link

Thanks for the link to Wikipedia:AfD and mergers. I'll still absorbing how it fits in; will com back with thoughts later.SPhilbrickT 13:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Please be aware that I wrote most of it. I added another link at the discussion. Flatscan (talk) 04:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Fort Saskatchewan and Fort Mall

Response to [5]

Thanks so much for that - you prevented a lot of stumbling, glad to know how to do that now!--Milowent (talk) 12:53, 2 June 2010 (UTC)