==Adana Massacre== The information about "Adana Massacre" lacks neutrality. * the number of fatal causalties in the article (30,000) exceeds even the arguably biased data from the Armenian Patriarchate (21,300 according to the investigation it carried out.) * the Armenian Patriarch was responsible to a great extent for the incidents, according to a report of the British Ambassador dated May 4, 1909 (Foreign Office, 424/219, No. 83.) This is not a denial of an actual incident, but the use of adjectives and the use of unchecked or partial sources turn the paragraph into a non-neutral one. It could be better to open a separate article showing the conflicting viewpoints. 216.244.240.249 01:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) == "Adana Massacre" == If you insist on pointing out "Adana Massacre" , its place is right under the famous "Armenian Genocide" page. If you plan to insert "historic facts" on how many Armenians were killed on each Turkish cities page, I am sure some other guy will come with the bright idea of editing the Armenian cities, which are only a few. --Isarioglu 20:33, 11 August 2005 (UTC) :I think that this is exactly the right place for the Adana massacre. This is not a Turkish government site. I make no difference between people who remove information on the Armenian genocide and Holocaust_deniers who remove information on the holocaust. I revert them at sight.--Wiglaf 20:35, 11 August 2005 (UTC) Dear Wiglaf, On the "Armenian Genocide" , I express my knowledge and ideas of what really happened on discussion page. For the events between 1919 and 1922, I have to ask you a simple question: What would happen to a minority in YOUR country, if that minority would cooperate with the invaders and further, join their armed forces and make YOUR civilians suffer or kill them for revenge, money or fun, after the invaders are gone? I thing you would revert them at sight... :The ''civilized'' way would be to arrest individuals who committed crimes, not to condemn an entire nation to ethnic cleansing. There is a reason why Slobodan Milosevic is in prison at the moment.--Wiglaf 21:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC) ::Dear Wiglav, ::When one person in ten does commits this crimes and you have efficent ways to restore order and organise trials, that is the way it should be done. If this is not the case, it is called civil war, the most unpleasent and bloody kind of war. Yet the article itself explains how brevly Adana Armenians fighted against the local Turks when French withdraw, and be sure not with stones. Ethnic cleansing is one thing, civil war is another. ::Tashnak terror onto Ottoman Armenians, who did not share their point of view and other Ottoman authorities, the bloody Armenian revolt at 1915, which killed a quarter million of Turks and Kurds in a span of few months, a geat many Armenian youths joining the invading armies at 1919 does not look worth mentioning at Wikipedia. :: The exile of Armenians, which resulted with a disaster is a shame on Ottoman but not on modern Turkey. You have to understand that at early 1915, the same Ottoman Empire has send his best army, consisting of choosen, big , strong Turkmen youngsters to death at -40 Celcius at Battle_of_Sarikamis. 90,000 of best Ottoman soldier has frozen, because some pasha has arranged that the only regiment with good winter wear paraded 10 times in front of Enver Pasha. And Enver never questioned why soldiers started to freeze , until it was too late. ::--Isarioglu 22:32, 11 August 2005 (UTC) :::The Adana massacre is not really related with the Armenian genocide, it happened in 1909, and the official Ottoman version doesn't deny it really happened. In fact, it is the only massacre of Armenians, that the "other side" do not entirly disagree with the official version. The Ottoman advanced 15 thousand as number of victims, Western sources varry from 20,000 to 30,000. The minimum range is pretty close to the Ottoman figures. Beside, there were Ottoman trials after the event condemning many that participated in the massacres. So, I really don't see what your regurgitated revionism regarding the Armenian genocide is doing in the Adana talk page. Beside, what you think is the truth, is not proper Wiki talk page discussion. Talk pages don't exist to establish what is the truth or not, but rather discuss regarding the different official positions. Fadix 17:07, 12 August 2005 (UTC)