Helping Workers Now

posted by Christopher Hayes on 12/09/2008 @ 12:32pm

Email
Print
Share
- Buzzflash
- del.icio.us
- Digg
- Facebook
- Mixx it!
- Reddit
What is this?
Take Action
Comments (78)

Subscribe Now

This dispatch comes from Nation reporter Gregory Kaufmann:

Two new reports from the Center of American Progress (CAP) suggest that there is much the Obama Administration can do to immediately improve the lives of workers simply by enforcing their existing rights through the Department of Labor (DOL) and reforming federal contracting so that it promotes good jobs. Two panels of experts advocated for this agenda at CAP yesterday, and New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine delivered a keynote address.

Dr David Madland -- co-author of both reports -- said reforms like the stimulus and promoting the Employee Free Choice Act are critical "but these reforms will take time -- something that workers don't necessarily have… how [can we] make the economy work right away?"

Madland and co-author Karla Walter describe five reforms the Obama administration should focus on: increasing maximum allowable penalties for more effective deterrence; expanding enforcement staff and partnering with unions, industry associations, state agencies, and community organizations to expose scofflaws; reducing wage theft and safety violations by targeting high-violation sectors; collecting comprehensive data and creating a publicly accessible database on enforcement; and strengthening protection of immigrant workers by improving bilingual services and partnering with community organizations.

Panelists agreed that wage theft -- paying less than minimum wage, stealing tips, failing to pay overtime, forcing workers to work off the clock, and violating prevailing wage laws on federal contracts -- is what Kim Bobo, founder and executive director of Interfaith Worker Justice, described as "a national crisis." Bobo said that there are currently "750 Wage and Hour enforcement staff to protect 130 million workers in 7 million workplaces… fewer than half as many enforcement staffers today as [in] 1941… when it was responsible for only 15.5 million workers."

Thomas Perez, Secretary of the Maryland Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation, described how his agency went from previously being "zeroed out" by a Republican governor, to record recoveries of workers' wages under Democratic Governor Martin O'Malley. "There's an acute awareness that there's a new sheriff in town…[we] make maximum use of the bully pulpit," he said. "There's a remarkable amount of things that you can do -- Day 1, Day 90 -- you can see a real sea change in a very short period of time."

Governor Corzine spoke of challenges he has faced in trying to ensure that workers get a fair slice of the pie. "If I hear one more time that New Jersey is not a business friendly place because we actually support our workforce so that they can have a standard of living… it is very aggravating that if you actually believe that you are in the business of trying to create the greater good for the greatest number of people… that somehow or another that's a disadvantage…. It is wrong, and we need to change that."

One way of changing that, Madland suggested, is by using federal contracting standards to create "a race to the top" in treatment of workers. Madland and co-author Michael Paarlberg write about four contracting reforms for the Obama Administration: greater transparency -- a publicly available database on working conditions, wages and benefit records of federal contractors; stronger oversight and enforcement -- beginning with open and competitive bids; judicious use of contracting -- it's much more difficult to monitor working conditions in the private sector than in government sectors; and promotion of improved job standards -- work with companies that meet or exceed specified wage and benefit levels.

Scott Amey, General Counsel for the Project on Government Oversight, noted that contract spending for FY2008 is estimated at $529 billion. That gives the government an enormous amount of leverage with potential contractors. But University of Baltimore School of Law professor Richard Loeb -- a former senior official at OMB -- said labor issues in contracting receive almost no attention from agency officials who are downright hostile to them. He said a cultural shift needs to occur that comes from the top of the Obama Administration.

Comments (78)

How about helping workers by allowing them to keep a higher proportion of their earnings? How come politicians don't mention that solution?

Just kidding.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 12:48pm
Now, Freiheit1, that is asking too much of a Democrat. Letting people keep more of their own earnings---don't you know that it is a matter faith for Democrats that the people are too stupid to know what to do with their money; only the govt knows best what to do with their earnings.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 1:03pm
freiheit/lvliberty-Which Democrats are talking about taking more money from workers?When have republicans made sure that workers have more money?I've lived on workers wages throughout my entire adult life and I never had more money with republicans in power than with the democrats.Never noticed any difference between the two parties because there was no difference.My spending power was the same no matter which party was in power.

Posted by i'm nobody at 12/09/2008 @ 1:22pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 12/09/2008 @ 1:22pm

You will notice I use the term politicians because of the very good point you make. I agree. I wish it were different. But the corruption of our federal system is non-partisan.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 1:36pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 12/09/2008 @ 1:22pm

The Democratic Congress, House specifically voted this year to increase taxes on all Americans. People like Rangel and Frank are calling for larger taxes on all Americans.

People like Mask and JR want to go back to higher tax levels in the 80's and 60's respectively.

President elect Obama has recently stated that he will go along with the Democratic Congress and allow the Bush taxcuts to expire in 2010 which means that all Americans including the bottom wage earners will get a tax increase. The lowest marginal tax rate will return to 15% from the current 10%. That's a 50% tax increase for them.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 1:36pm
lvliberty-I've heard that kind of thing in the past,but,like most everyone else in that income bracket,never noticed any difference.Reality is that to us it doesn't matter which party is in power because we have about the same either way.

Posted by i'm nobody at 12/09/2008 @ 2:00pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 1:36pm

If corruption in our government is equally non-partisan, why are there many more Republicans sitting in jail or under investigation than Democrats.

Is it just that Democrats are smarter about not getting caught or is it that Republicans are just more corrupt by their nature and political ideology?

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 2:04pm
freiheit1-"No taxes on your earnings & after the minimum wage is reduced to 2 bucks an hour, we can globally compete."

lvliberty1-"Don't forget the faith based 25% mandatory tithe, federally enforced, of course! We've got g-D to think of, you know. This would be included in the defense budget!"

Posted by Sorelish at 12/09/2008 @ 2:13pm
The lowest marginal tax rate will return to 15% from the current 10%. That's a 50% tax increase for them.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 1:36pm

That tax rate is for long term capital gains. How many lower income people even know what capital gains are? The capital gains tax rate should be increased to at least 25% for people in the top income brackets and left at 5% for people in the two lowest income tax brackets.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 2:18pm
How about helping workers by allowing them to keep a higher proportion of their earnings? How come politicians don't mention that solution? Just kidding.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 12:48pm

Mr. Obama made a center-piece of his campaign out of his promise to effectively reduce taxes on 95% of the population. If he adheres to that promise (and that is a big "if") then clearly he would be doing exactly what you suggest.

Posted by syfriendly at 12/09/2008 @ 2:21pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 1:36pm

Actually, LVLIB, I'm simply listening to YOU guys.

You keep telling us that we had "the greatest expansion in American history under Ronald Reagan"....yet oddly think that going BACK to Reagan's top marginal tax rates would be disasterous?!??!!?

Also, question to you and FREIHEIT, how is it that on one occasion you talk about "How about letting workers keep more of their money?"...

and on another occasion tell us "The rich pay most of the taxes!!!!"

Wouldn't that mean that workers ARE keeping more of their money?!?!?!???

Posted by Mask at 12/09/2008 @ 2:27pm
lvliberty1-"Don't forget the faith based 25% mandatory tithe, federally enforced, of course! We've got g-D to think of, you know. This would be included in the defense budget!"

Posted by Sorelish at 12/09/2008 @ 2:13pm

What a silly statement. No tithe should ever be either forced or especially have any federal involvement. Nor should any tithe go to the govt for any purpose.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 2:32pm
That tax rate is for long term capital gains. How many lower income people even know what capital gains are? The capital gains tax rate should be increased to at least 25% for people in the top income brackets and left at 5% for people in the two lowest income tax brackets.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 2:18pm

Wrong. The Bush tax cuts lowered the lowest marginal income tax rate for wage earners from 15% to 10%. The Democrat plan to let those tax cuts expire would return that rate to 15% for lowest wage earners and thus expose millions of low income to lower middle class people to a tax increase.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 2:34pm
From the PSL:

Over 200 workers have occupied their workplace factory at Republic Windows and Doors in Chicago, after the company shut down the plant, claiming lack of funds to pay the workers their back pay, vacation and other benefits, or to give 60 days' notice as required by federal law.

The plant closing was precipitated by Bank of America's refusal to extend any more credit to the company, despite the fact that B of A has received $25 billion in bailout funds. These billions were supposed to help relieve credit shortages and help sustain jobs. Instead, the banks are using taxpayer dollars to merge into larger banks. Bank of America and JP Morgan Chase are the two banks that invest in Republic Windows and Doors. The workers are owed an average of 75 days' pay and vacation. Companies are bound by federal law to either give 60 days' notice with pay, before a plant closing or layoff of 50 or more workers.

It is reported that Republic Windows and Doors is planning to move its plant to Iowa because of cheaper labor costs, and to get out of union obligations with the United Electrical Workers Union. Workers across the country are paying a heavy price for the bank's and corporations' theft. It's time for the bankers and companies to pay, NOT THE WORKERS!

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 2:49pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 2:32pm

Who said anything about the tithe going to the feds? Why it would go to you! Feds only enforce collection. Think back 5 or 6 years ago to prospects for your version of Amerika. You'll understand I'm sure. My how you've changed. Guess g-d goes with the flow. Gotta hand it to you, you're adaptable.

Posted by Sorelish at 12/09/2008 @ 2:57pm
Who said anything about the tithe going to the feds? Why it would go to you! Feds only enforce collection. Think back 5 or 6 years ago to prospects for your version of Amerika. You'll understand I'm sure. My how you've changed. Guess g-d goes with the flow. Gotta hand it to you, you're adaptable.

Posted by Sorelish at 12/09/2008 @ 2:57pm

Your comment that it would be included in the Defense budget led to my conclusion. If that isn't what you meant, why did you state that?

2. I repeat though that tithing should never be compulsory.

3. I don't receive a personal benefit from tithing other than some reimbursement for travel costs. No salary, no housing; I have always been a working minister. that's the way I want it.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:03pm
Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 2:04pm

Neither. Politicians are simply human. Power corrupts is not a cliche. It is fact. I contend it is not a partisan issue.

Your quantitative analysis of politicians behind bars is disingenuous, especially in light of today's headlines, isn't it?

Good swing at bat though.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:06pm
Also, question to you and FREIHEIT, how is it that on one occasion you talk about "How about letting workers keep more of their money?"...

and on another occasion tell us "The rich pay most of the taxes!!!!"

Wouldn't that mean that workers ARE keeping more of their money?!?!?!???

Posted by Mask at 12/09/2008 @ 2:27pm

No. It wouldn't. If I pay $5 in taxes based on $100 income and you pay $250 based on $1000 income it has nothing to do with my keeping more of my money, does it? Your argument would only make sense I suppose if government put a cap on tax revenue it collected.

Oh and the rich do pay most of the taxes. So?

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:23pm
Mask has that liberal conviction that the rich can never pay too much in taxes. The liberal dogma requires that punishment should be rendered for success, and no one should violate the marxist requirements of equality over achievement.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:29pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 2:34pm

I misunderstood your post. And in that I was wrong. The lowest marginal tax rate for wage earners would not however increase from 10% to 15% back to 2001 levels. Obama's tax plan (if followed) would, when the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010 not change for people making under $250,000 a year. So the lowest marginal tax rate would remain at 10%.

In my opinion people making less or at where the current marginal tax rate is set, should pay nothing in income tax 0%. They already spend 100% of their income on goods and services.

And with the Obama tax credit of up to $500 for a single person or $1000 for a family of three, I should think that would lower the 10% now being paid.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 3:36pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 2:34pm

That is if you are so worried about how the poor will manage to survive in a post Bush economy.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 3:39pm
Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 3:36pm

The Obama tax cut plan (which is not a tax cut but a proposal for additional tax credits), is still hypothetical at this point.

However, Obama is on record, both by Senate vote and recent comments as willing to let the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010. That non action will cause the minimum tax rate to increase back to 15%.

So, while the Obama tax credits may or may not occur, the Democrats and Obama are on record as to letting the tax cuts expire.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:51pm
Let's cut taxes and let the deficit continue to balloon - no other countries will every want to collect? right!

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 3:56pm
Good swing at bat though.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:06pm

I hit it out of the park, you must have missed it way out there in Right field.

They could put another 3 or 4 Democrats in prison or under investigation and it would not even come close to tying the Repugs in the corruption game..

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 3:56pm
They could put another 3 or 4 Democrats in prison or under investigation and it would not even come close to tying the Repugs in the corruption game..

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 3:56pm

Really? You ought to check out the links I put on the Jefferson thread and perhaps reconsider.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:58pm
Chaoszen - you think Dodd and Frank are clean?

I found it profoundly ironic (and thus amusing) to watch Chris Dodd call for an auto ceo to step down because he doesn't know how to run a company. haha!

where was the admonishment of the banking/financial institutions mr. senate banking man? and how much did you give the banks - compared to what the auto companies are begging for?

what a sham. complete and utter sham.

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:00pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:51pm

I said Obama's tax plan. Not tax "cut" plan. And I qualified that with "if followed". And Obama has said repeatedly that there would be no tax increase for people making under $250,000 a year. So how about we give him a chance to get inaugurated and see if he lives up to those promises before you start assuming that the lowest marginal tax rate will increase for those at the poverty level.

How is putting the cart before the horse working out for you? Especially from someone who takes welfare from parishioners to subsidize your "travel". And all they get for their money is a bunch of spiritual snake oil that has no foundation in reality.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 4:10pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:58pm

Just wait until next year. When a whole slew of Repugs from the former president on down are under investigation for crimes ranging from treason to chippy hopping.. Then the right may even win the "World Series of Corruption".

I can't wait...

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 4:23pm
chaoszen - even if you're right - the people don't get to spend their money on snake oil if it makes them feel good? it's their money - no one's holding a gun to their heads.

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:24pm
Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 4:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person

won't happen. it's time for "change" - time to move on.

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:27pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:23pm

Uh, FREI, what is the BOTTOM marginal tax rate and at what income does it start?

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 3:29pm

So "returning to Reagan's tax rates"...

is "Marxism"!??!?!??? Poor ol' Ronnie, did he know he was a Commie???

Posted by Mask at 12/09/2008 @ 4:30pm
how in the world is low taxes marxism?

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:33pm
The labor laws must of course be enforced, but the fact is, compliance is generally excellent. Their violation is not widespread and is not a serious problem in our country. Where there are violations it in most often involves small start up businesses, with just a handful of workers, the boss a recent immigrant employing relatives or new arrivals, often illegals.

The true problem is two fold.

a) For a great many real wages have not kept pace in more than a decade.

b) For some wages have been forced up in a way as to make their industries uncompetititve.

An early example were newspapers many of which were destroyed by exorbitant union demands and an unwillingness to make necessary concession with respect to automation.

A current example is the UAW. While not entirely the sole culprit, it is a central factor in Detroit's problems. UAW workers receive, in wages and benefits, close to $30 an hour more than workers in rival companies. Consequently a Big Three car costs on average $4,000 more to build. That means Detroit either skimps on quality or forgoes profits, or both. That built in cost disadvantage has dragged Detroit under.

The UAW needs to accept wage and benefit reductions. Our car industry won't survive, even with a federal bailout, without such labor concessions. They would leave autoworkers with $40 an hour jobs. That remains a good wage.

If the Left really is interested in the working man and overcoming a deep depression, it should advocate those cuts rather than resort to diversions about labor law violations. Cloaking and obfuscating and avoiding the problem won't make it go away.

Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 12/09/2008 @ 4:37pm
won't happen. it's time for "change" - time to move on.

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:27pm

You wish maybe? Yes it is time for a "change". It is time to finally hold an evil administration responsible for it's actions. It is time for justice. It is time and way past time to make damn sure that future generations don't have to ask the question. "Why didn't they do something"? It is time that we make an example of people that would deign to undermine from within the greatest country that has ever existed in the world.

The only way to do that and to regain our former glory as a light and a beacon of democracy, is to punish the people that would in their own self interest "sell out" this experiment in democracy.

May they all rot in hell. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a whole host of others.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 4:42pm
chaoszen - retribution is not justice...and your call to arms is easily ignored from this liberal because your real motivation is anger. Time to move on to peace and prosperity.

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:48pm
Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 4:48pm

Your post, your afilliation and your purpose are showing. Like a man with his dick out at a wedding...

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 4:53pm
Urmygyro, Long time no see. I hope you're well.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 6:15pm
chaoszen - your anger will eat you alive. you sound like someone who can't get over an ex.

look at how much corruption exists in our government - from both entrenched parties. a republican president and his people have to be put in jail because you say so?

thankfully people on the extreme left such as yourself will not carry the day.

frei - hi!

Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 6:52pm
we had high taxes for the super rich, during wartime mostly. the republic AND the superich thrived. big things were accomplished. rich guys bragged about their 90% tax brackets. Elvis did not complain. the rich have the most to gain, they have been making great gains in the last years. that is indisputable.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/09/2008 @ 8:07pm
Posted by urmygyro at 12/09/2008 @ 6:52pm

We already did carry the day. Your a little late. The radical left is who just changed the dynamics of politics in this country. You may be too blind to see that yet. And now we need to finish the job and make sure that the perps who are responsible pay dearly for their criminal behaviour and the betrayal of their oaths to uphold the constitution.

So that future generations will not have to suffer a repeat of these crimes and can have some closure.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 8:28pm
The super rich must be made to give up the money they do not need or have even really earned. It makes me sick to see people obtain such obscene wealth at the expense of others.

We could all have a place to live, food to eat, medical care we need and jobs to go to if the greedy would take a moment to become human. I know that sounds crazy. We live in an upside down through the looking glass world. We are all in this together, and believe me nobody gets out of here alive. No matter how much money they have.

So when we move on, how many of us travel well? And how many times will it take you to escape this cycle of birth and death before you realize we are all brothers and sisters?

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 8:50pm
Chaoszen,

The rational left, not the radical left carried the day. No super majority. Interesting, centrist cabinet appointees.

An indictment of the Bush administration would reveal the complicity of the democrat leadership.

Move on. Your leadership certainly will.

For the record, if it could be proven that Bush knowingly invaded Iraq on bogus info, I'd march in the torchlit streets with you.

There isn't evidence, or a will on the part of the opposition.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 8:51pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 8:51pm

There isn't evidence? Are you kidding or suffering self delusion? The evidence is enormous and compelling. And the complicity of the "Democratic" not democrat leadership be damned. I could give a shit, Im a socialist, not a democrat.

So, I will be looking for you in those "torchlit streets". Well maybe not. The only people who seem to have any balls at the moment are the Greeks. Quite appropo considering they were the cradle of democracy.

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 9:08pm
The super rich must be made to give up the money they do not need or have even really earned. It makes me sick to see people obtain such obscene wealth at the expense of others.

We could all have a place to live, food to eat, medical care we need and jobs to go to if the greedy would take a moment to become human. I know that sounds crazy. We live in an upside down through the looking glass world. We are all in this together, and believe me nobody gets out of here alive. No matter how much money they have.

So when we move on, how many of us travel well? And how many times will it take you to escape this cycle of birth and death before you realize we are all brothers and sisters?

Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 8:50pm

And who should decide how much someone needs or earns? On what basis? Why should someone else who doesn't know me or you for that matter have any say in what I earn or decide that I need. Or Bill Gates, or Kobe Bryant? Why should anyone have a right to control that if they are not responsible for paying it? The market system while imperfect is so much better than any alternative.

And there is only one cycle of birth and death-

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/09/2008 @ 10:07pm
"How about helping workers by allowing them to keep a higher proportion of their earnings?"

since obama has promised a tax cut for 95% of working families, hasn't he helped "wokers by allowing them to keep a higher proportion of their earnings"?

i guess somebody must feel pretty stupid now.

Posted by darladoon at 12/09/2008 @ 10:41pm
"The Democrat plan to let those tax cuts expire would return that rate to 15%"

there is no modifier as "Democrat." the correct modifier would be "Democratic." thank you.

Posted by darladoon at 12/09/2008 @ 10:45pm
"And who should decide how much someone needs or earns? On what basis? Why should someone else who doesn't know me or you for that matter have any say in what I earn or decide that I need. Or Bill Gates, or Kobe Bryant"

how christian of you to support a system which rewards a tiny fraction, and punishes the vast majority.

it's truly astonishing to see self-described christians prance around, supporting the most disastrous, radical, failed and immoral policies, while decrying any attempt by tepid democrats to modestly correct their flaws. obama seeks to reverse only the most egregious of bush's policies, and suddenly, he's a marxist. despite the fact that he's tapped entrenched, center-right politicians to fulfill his administration's posts.

Posted by darladoon at 12/09/2008 @ 10:49pm
I'm just amazed that Ronald Reagan allowed the MARXISM of a 50% top marginal rate on incomes over $175,250 to stand for even ONE year....

as well as amazed that the 2nd Great Depression we suffered (because of those Communist rates) in 1983-1984 didn't kill his re-election bid against Mondale?!??!??!?

Posted by Mask at 12/09/2008 @ 11:13pm
And who should decide how much someone needs or earns?

neither Bill Gates or Kobe is bitching about their taxes. they will be happy to pay more to help lift the country out of a big slump. why? because the source of their riches is us. you me, Maasch. us. when we have a lot less money, (as we do now at a time of very high unemployment), we will buy a whole lot FEWER,(not less) computers. we might also put off the purchase of that new operating system.

same goes for Kobe. there will be fewer fannies in the seats and the products he sponsors will not sell.

this is what the knuckleheads here don't understand. it's not about anyone telling you what you or Kobe can earn. it's about creating and protecting the conditions in which you can earn up to your potential. the rich and super rich, god bless 'em, get far more benefit from the entire social apparatus than anyone else. they have been making unprecedented gains. they have the most to lose.

well strike that. the ones at the bottom stand to lose their life due to poverty.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/10/2008 @ 09:42am
Quite apropos considering they were the cradle of democracy. Posted by chaoszen at 12/09/2008 @ 9:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person

they created it and threw it away. like us.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/10/2008 @ 09:45am
Posted by emile duBois at 12/10/2008 @ 09:42am

Good post.

I'd like to add that while the reforms and restored enforcement mentioned by Mr. Hayes are all welcome, the key is to empower the working class to fight on its own behalf to improve their conditions of employment, including pay and benefits. The Employee Free Choice Act is a step in the right direction. Repealing Taft-Hartley would be another. Amending the Fair Labor Standards Act to include domestic and agricultural labor would be a third.

Government oversight and regulation can be helpful if it is enforced, but more often than not, business controls the politicians and the regulators. Better to free workers to do what a majority of them have said in poll after poll, have the chance to join a union and fight on their own behalf.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 10:50am
And another thing.

How about helping workers by allowing them to keep a higher proportion of their earnings? How come politicians don't mention that solution?

Just kidding.

Posted by freiheit1 at 12/09/2008 @ 12:48pm

How about helping workers by allowing them to join unions and strike to increase their earnings? How come politicians (and right-wingers) don't mention that solution?

Not kidding at all.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 10:54am
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 12/09/2008 @ 4:37pm

Tired old myths about the compensation earned by members of the United Auto Workes. You're including legacy costs, those associated with retirees, i.e., pensions and health care. This may increase the average labor costs to the auto companies per employee, but that doesn't mean a current assembly line worker actually get the amount you cite.

By the way, rather than just comparing companies with loads of retirees to plants that have only been operating for a decade or less, how about you find out what the legacy costs for the Asian and European automakers are back home? Not all of the Toyotas, Hyundais, Volkswagons and Benzs sold here are made here, are they?

And another by the way, how many of those companies are responsible for the same level of pensions and health care in their home countries as ours are, in this wonderful land of the "free" market?

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 11:01am
Government oversight and regulation can be helpful if it is enforced, but more often than not, business controls the politicians and the regulators. Better to free workers to do what a majority of them have said in poll after poll, have the chance to join a union and fight on their own behalf.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 10:50am

We will never realize our true potential as a nation until we are finally free of the shackles of mediocrioty that unionism attempts to impose.

The vast majority of immigrants that come here to find the American dream are not coming for the hope of unionism. The seek the free market opportunity that flourishes here better than anywhere else in the world.

No matter the country or region of origin, American immigrants who succeed here do so because they realize that hard work, creative initiative, and the collectivism not of unions but usually family and/or ethnic/national community working together to create something better for themselves and the future for their families.

I see Asian families, Albanian, Hispanic, and others making the sacrifices and succeeding because of their efforts and desire, not unionism. They don't need collective bargaining agreements, just commitment and perseverance.

Too many Americans have lost this sense of personal and family achievement and personal effort, because of the comfort level and malaise that unionism brought to this nation.

Whatever short term benefits and/or gains unionism brought to this country, they have now been overshadowed by the negative effect that has been so implanted into the national work ethic of Americans.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 12:34pm
"How about helping workers by allowing them to join unions and strike to increase their earnings? How come politicians (and right-wingers) don't mention that solution?"

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 10:54am

CK2, you are aware that unions have a tendency to overprice themselves right out of the market, don't you? A prime example is the UAW. Should GM and Chrysler go insolvent, the UAW will be seriously diminished and they can't force the Japanese to deal with them. So when you join a union, be prepared to get screwed.

Posted by ACook at 12/10/2008 @ 1:20pm
Whatever short term benefits and/or gains unionism brought to this country, they have now been overshadowed by the negative effect that has been so implanted into the national work ethic of Americans.Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 12:34pm

The typical argument of a scab & misanthrope. Somewhere in the distant past you were at loggerheads with either an individual or group with union affiliation. Drop the childish resentment & move on. Companies come & go, men & women remain. Abstraction sucks.

Posted by Sorelish at 12/10/2008 @ 2:13pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 12:34pm

"The vast majority of immigrants that come here to find the American dream are not coming for the hope of unionism. The seek the free market opportunity that flourishes here better than anywhere else in the world."

And yet, the most vibrant sectors of the labor movement are those with large numbers of immigrants. Something we've seen before in American history.

"Too many Americans have lost this sense of personal and family achievement and personal effort, because of the comfort level and malaise that unionism brought to this nation."

The productivity of American workers, including unionized workers, is among the best in the world, millions report high levels of stress, exhaustion and anxiety, and yet unions have thrown the country into a malaise? I'd say that 30 years of unremitting attacks on the standard of living is what has stressed us out, while corporate culture encourages us to tune in and tune out.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 5:23pm
CK2, you are aware that unions have a tendency to overprice themselves right out of the market, don't you? A prime example is the UAW. Should GM and Chrysler go insolvent, the UAW will be seriously diminished and they can't force the Japanese to deal with them. So when you join a union, be prepared to get screwed.

Posted by ACook at 12/10/2008 @ 1:20pm

It's not that unions price themselves out of a market, but that the bosses job the political and economic systems to create new, lower-wage markets. The anti-union South with its "Right to Work" laws. Hiring "Permanent Replacements" to end the right to strike. And when all else fails, either fire the workers who are trying to get a union (the U.S.) or kill the labor organizers (Columbia, among others).

I've been a member of two unions and one union-affiliated association. The first union was able to win wages and benefits that actually lifted the lowest paid members of the staff out of homelessness or qualifying for food stamps. The second won improved wages and benefits for its ridiculously overworked, for the pay, members. And the associated group at least lobbys on my behalf and can provide me with a modicum of support when management comes a-knocking.

These are the kinds of real-world reasons why a majority of Americans would like to be able to join a union if they didn't think they would get fired for trying to do so, or that their plant or office would be shuttered and the jobs sent to the Third World. Or America's version of the Third World, the South.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 5:34pm
The productivity of American workers, including unionized workers, is among the best in the world,....

Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 5:23pm

Is that because Americans have much higher IQ? Are taller, stronger than fill-in-the-race? Have unions that mandates breaks, staffing level, specialization, featherbedding (when they could)?

Or, is such high productivity just maybe, connected with the fact of American business' having among the highest capital-to-labor ratio in the world?

Know anything about AutoCad? QuickBook & other accounting softwares? Industrial robots? Oracle databases and application softwares? How Wal-Mart manages its logistics?

Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 12/10/2008 @ 5:40pm
Posted by cka2nd at 12/10/2008 @ 5:23pm

Why do you rant so incessantly against personal initiative, personal responsibility, and the greatest entrepeneurial opportunity market in the world?

You seem determined that no one can enjoy a quality life unless they abandon self determination and follow the dictates and demands of a union.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 7:11pm
implanted into the national work ethic of Americans. Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 12:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person

whattabunchofnonsense. hahahahahaha.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/10/2008 @ 7:40pm
whattabunchofnonsense. hahahahahaha.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/10/2008 @ 7:40pm

Too many glasses of wine today JR?

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 7:57pm
cka2nd at 11:01am says:

<< Tired old myths about the compensation earned by members of the United Auto Workes. >>

If they are myths then you must know the true numbers. What are they? Out with it!

Of course benefits include pensions and health care costs. And certainly, legacy payments factor into the cost of building a vehicle.

Obviously the wage and benefit burden for rival companies are less than for Detroit. That is the point. And though they offer less in compensation it is still enough to attract and keep skilled and capable workers.

You think the solution is words? You think excuses, polemics, blaming others, belying the facts is the answer?

Sure, words can win arguments, but they can't change the facts. And the fact is that a rouly $30 disparity between the hourly labor costs penalizes Detroit's cars. That inflicts a $4,000 price handicap on the average Big Three vehicle. That fact won't change by calling it a myth. Nor will billion dollar loans. Those will just postpone the day of reckoning.

The UAW understands the car business as well as management. It is not up against the Big Three, but up against the Big Reaper. Its companies are dead without reductions in worker compensation. Faith that Detroit is too large to fail will work up to the moment when it will fail. The smart move would be to now volunteer the cuts which the union will have to accept in time. For the same money it can appear responsible and self sacrificing instead of grudging and suicidal.

Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 12/10/2008 @ 11:20pm
implanted into the national work ethic of Americans.

why you pompous twit.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/11/2008 @ 12:44am
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 12/10/2008 @ 11:20pm

Curious hugo, do your numbers include benefits that current employees are working for now?

Or are you including 'legacy' costs, for benefits that workers/retirees have already earned? Benefits that should be coming out of escrowed accounts, not current working capital, via corrupt management who already spent other peoples money and insist that it be counted as wages for current workers, rather than they be incarcerated for stealing old peoples retirement? (Do I get some kind of run-on sentence award for that last one? Whew!)

Also, when friends inquire about your salary, do you include any medical benefits or retirement investments in your tally?

Eric

Posted by Malcontent at 12/11/2008 @ 09:48am
In other words, isn't this more about government bailing out raided pension/healthcare plans, than it is about actual workers being paid?

Aren't the companies actually further in the hole than they claim, in that they already stole their employees benefits and lost them and now need govt. help to a.) pay back what they stole and <i>then</i> try to stay open?

Posted by Malcontent at 12/11/2008 @ 09:53am
Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 12/10/2008 @ 5:40pm

Although Alan Greenspand and others have tried to credit technology for the high productivity of the American workforce, every reputable study or article I have seen over the last 10+ years has controlled for such factors and found that Americans are just plain forced to work longer hours at a faster pace than most other workers in the developed world.

"Industrial robots" - Have automated a lot of jobs out of existence. Would be lovely under a socialist system but is otherwise another factor in holding down wages and benefits, not that I would oppose them altogether.

"Oracle databases and application softwares" - More familiar than I would like to be, for good and ill. Overall, a net plus, but not by a remarkable factor that I can see.

"How Wal-Mart manages its logistics?" - Read an excellent article in Fortune or Business Week of all places. Wal-Mart trades efficiency for quality and forces their suppliers to do the same.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/11/2008 @ 10:26am
You seem determined that no one can enjoy a quality life unless they abandon self determination and follow the dictates and demands of a union.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/10/2008 @ 7:11pm

I don't want to see anyone abandon self-determination, including in the workplace. I am for democratic unions controlled by the rank-and-file. I am opposed to the dictatorial rule of the bosses on the job and in society. How about extending the Bill of Rights to the workplace?

Posted by cka2nd at 12/11/2008 @ 10:28am
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 12/10/2008 @ 11:20pm

Excluding legacy costs, the numbers I have seen for average hourly compensation at the Big 3 vs. the rest of the automakers manufacturing in America is something like $28 vs. $25.

Jeffrey Sachs - not exactly my ideological soul mate - has noted that the largest factor in the $4,00 difference between the price Detroit can charge and the price of a comparable Toyota, say, is the public's belief that American cars just don't measure up in quality to the Japanese and European brands. While once completely true, this is now largely out-of-date as the quality gap has been largely closed.

Instead of swallowing yet more givebacks and cuts in wages, pensions and health care - Just what the economy needs now! - I'd certainly be willing to consider converting the workers' pensions and healthcare into public programs: Social Security Plus and Medicare Plus. With a hefty financial contribution from the stockholders.

More givebacks by the UAW will just mean that their will be a lower ceiling on what non-union autoworkers and the rest of the industrial working class can make. It'll be the 80's all over again, with one group of workers whipsawed against the cuts forced on another. Well, Ronald Reagan is dead and roasting in hell, and Maggie Thatcher will be joining him soon, I hope (preferably in a coal furnace), so the hell with "Race to the Bottom, Part Deux."

Posted by cka2nd at 12/11/2008 @ 10:44am
it's the workers' fault.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/11/2008 @ 11:58am
, when friends inquire about your salary, do you include any medical benefits or retirement investments in your tally?

Eric

Posted by Malcontent at 12/11/2008 @ 09:48am

You have actually highlighted an important distinction that seldom is discussed.

Few hourly workers in America understand their true compensation. When all employer costs for benefits including those not normally considered like workers compensation and unemployment costs, you need to add between 35-50% (depending on the state) to what is seen on a pay stub.

Additionally, many of us on the right have long asserted that if Americans received their pay in full and then had to submit a monthly or quarterly check to pay their taxes, there would be a tax revolt that would make the country's founders proud.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/11/2008 @ 12:08pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 12/11/2008 @ 12:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person

bitch bitch, taxes, bitch, bitch. yawn.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/11/2008 @ 12:23pm
....Wal-Mart trades efficiency for quality and forces their suppliers to do the same.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/11/2008 @ 10:26am

You imply Wal-Mart do NOT give its vast number of consumers (incl. my family) any choices as to any given item we want to buy? That it only carries one low-end model of any brand at one low price....no `quality' brands or upper end models of mass-market items at `regular' or `discount' prices at all?

IF so, then it's truly remarkable Wal-Mart became the biggest retailer on the globe! I for one, only can dream that our gov'ts, at ANY level, can operate so efficiently and serve just about everybody throughout their respective life cylces (from starting out to being comfortable to being retired and parking RVs on their parking lots).

Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 12/11/2008 @ 12:33pm
Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 12/11/2008 @ 12:33pm | ignore this person | warn this person

tell us again how the economy is not in recession, and not in the toilet, how everything is coming up free market roses, you clown

Posted by emile duBois at 12/11/2008 @ 1:50pm
cka2nd at 10:44am said:

<< Excluding legacy costs, the numbers I have seen for average hourly compensation at the Big 3 vs. the rest of the automakers manufacturing in America is something like $28 vs. $25. >>

Where have you seen that? Do you really believe legacy costs amount to a $40 an hour burden in the cost of building the average Detroit car?

And why should legacy costs be discounted? Aren't they real real money and don't Toyota and Honda not also have legacy costs?

Finally, why do you suppose US cars lacked quality compared to the competition?

If higher labor costs automatically make your vehicle thousands of dollars more expensive, then you are forced to skimp somewhere, if you want to offer a competitively priced car and make a profit. That skimping was in quality.

How do you and Professor Sacks think that quality gap has now been made up, though the labor cost gap was not?

Since I don't believe in magic I have to conclude, the companies gave up their profits. Isn't that why they are in the red and stumbling towards Chapter 11?

Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 12/11/2008 @ 4:02pm
You imply Wal-Mart do NOT give its vast number of consumers (incl. my family) any choices as to any given item we want to buy? That it only carries one low-end model of any brand at one low price....no `quality' brands or upper end models of mass-market items at `regular' or `discount' prices at all?

Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 12/11/2008 @ 12:33pm

No offense meant, but the question marks in the above are not necessary. You are making statements, i.e., "You imply...," rather than asking questions such as "Are you saying that..."

But I'm glad that you asked! According to the article I cited, what Wal-Mart has done is carry "quality" brands such as Levi's jeans and Vlasic pickles, but their demands for low prices and, in the case of Vlasic, huge jars at a low price, has forced both companies to lower the quality of their product, at least those supplied to Wal-Mart, which effects the overall image of the brand. If memory serves, it has also drastically effected Vlasic's bottom line since, like many businesses, they have become dependent on Wal-Mart and then are forced to adjust their practices, and profits, to keep that account to even survive.

Posted by cka2nd at 12/11/2008 @ 5:28pm
don't Toyota and Honda not also have legacy costs?

on the cars they build here, no, because they have not been here long enough. in japan, legacy costs such as health care and retirement are covered by the gov't.

Posted by emile duBois at 12/11/2008 @ 6:08pm
But I'm glad that you asked! According to the article I cited, what Wal-Mart has done is carry "quality" brands such as Levi's jeans and Vlasic pickles, but their demands for low prices and, in the case of Vlasic, huge jars at a low price, has forced both companies to lower the quality of their product, at least those supplied to Wal-Mart,......

Posted by cka2nd at 12/11/2008 @ 5:28pm

Has it occurred to you folks who buy Sam's Club size bottles of Vlasic pickles may not care that Wal-Mart-specific pickles aren't quite the quality of the normal Kroger jar variety (if what you read is in fact true as to quality degradation)? (this is a question!) Think maybe quantity & low price turn them on more?

I go to W-M mainly for pet food, some automotive & medicine chest `stuff'. I seriously doubt the Pilrina dog food found there isn't up to snuff, or the car floor mats & cans of freon, or the Johnson & Johnson bandages are somehow inferior to the same brands I can buy at Pets Mart, Auto Zone or CVS!

I am however, aware that Wal-Mart do ask manufacturers to make certain products in uncommon packaging sizes exclusively for it....including some lower end electronics with uniquely W-M model numbers.

The beauty of what W-M does, is consumers get exactly what they pay for, from low to mid-price levels, consistently...and we keep going back!

Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 12/11/2008 @ 7:02pm