Pitchfork

The reports of Sally Shapiro's shyness may have been slightly exaggerated. Pitchfork phoned up the elusive chanteuse recently to chat about the dazzling Disco Romance, her producer Johan Agebjörn, and the act's origins and unlikely success. And although Shapiro still refuses to record her vocals while any other sentient lifeform is listening, in conversation she's a sweet, affable, humble young lady, one who stumbled into the role of a disco diva unwittingly and is, for the moment, better off for it.

While falling under her spell we also learned which artist makes every Shapiro-curated mixtape, how the melancholy in Sally's music extends beyond her recording persona, and why we shouldn't rule out the possibility of a live Sally Shapiro gig just yet.

Pitchfork: Some people have suggested that Sally Shapiro doesn't exist.

Sally Shapiro: I've read that too [laughs]. Well, I don't really understand what they're thinking, because somebody has to sing. So that's obvious, that there is someone that's singing-- so she has to exist!

Pitchfork: Fair enough. Tell me though, what role did music play for you growing up?

Shapiro: When I was a child, I listened mostly to Swedish music, of course, because you don't understand English. We had a pop list in Sweden. Nowadays it's more like music for older people, but I think that back then it was more pop, disco music-- like Eurovision song contest stuff.

Pitchfork: Were you rooting for [Gwar-like metal band and surprise winners] Lordi at last year's Eurovision?

Shapiro: [Laughs] It was nice that they won. Finland has never won before, so it was their turn.

Pitchfork: Did you play music in your household growing up as well as listen to it?

Shapiro: Yeah, my father plays a lot of music. We always had music on at home when I was little. So, we played played a lot together and sang together and so on. I played piano and flute.

Pitchfork: Have you played on any of the Sally Shapiro tracks?

Shapiro: No. We've been thinking if we will add a flute sometime I will play it, but not yet.

Pitchfork: Johan sent me an pre-Sally Shapiro recording called "Klapp und Klang". How old were you when that was made?

Shapiro: [Laughs] I was, like, five or something like that. I was pretty small.

Pitchfork: Did you record yourself a lot growing up?

Shapiro: Yes, I did. I liked that. I had a small microphone and I recorded a lot of singing, so I have a lot of cassettes with myself on it.

Pitchfork: I don't suppose those will ever come out in some form?

Shapiro: I think they will stay where they are [laughs].

Pitchfork: How did you and Johan first meet? It says on the website that you and Johan conceived of Sally Shapiro while singing Christmas songs, but did you know each other before the Sally Shapiro concept was born?

Shapiro: Yeah, yeah we did. We work at the same office. In 2001 or something like that, I think, we got to know each other. And we have been friends since then.

Pitchfork: Can you describe that moment with the Christmas songs, when the idea for Sally Shapiro came up?

Shapiro: It was in December and I was visiting Johan. He has a piano, so we were singing [Christmas songs] for fun, because it's a nostalgic thing to do. And Johan said that I have a very Italo disco voice; I didn't really know the term then because I always classified all disco as Eurodisco and didn't really know that there were different sorts. And so he showed me some Italo disco. I had heard some of it before and some not. [Later] Johan wrote ["I'll Be by Your Side"] and asked me if I could try to sing on it.

Pitchfork: Did it take much convincing to get you to sing on record?

Shapiro: Well, he put it like, "Oh, I would like to try and write an Italo disco song" because he likes it so much. And I thought it was just for fun. I don't really know now if Johan also thought so from the beginning or not. So I sang on it and did three or four tries, because we really just thought that it would be for fun.

Then Johan put it on the website. So it has all come step by step; first it was just for fun and then it was, "It got a good response, then maybe we'll do a single," and then it just came along.

Pitchfork: What role do you play in Sally Shapiro, apart from singing?

Shapiro: Johan does the most; I just sing and come up with themes to write about. So I say, "Write about something like this," and he writes it. Mostly it's like this: Johan has the music already, he plays it for me and I say "Okay, it sounds nice," or "No, I don't like it." And then he works out a demo and I listen to it and say what I think. And he changes some [things]. But he's the writer.

Pitchfork: And you have a veto?

Shapiro: Yeah [laugh]. He writes, I have a veto.

Pitchfork: Have you considered doing some writing yourself, or making the music?

Shapiro: I have considered it a little. We have a song that I have written. I wrote it before the Sally Shapiro project and we are thinking if we will do it or not.

Pitchfork: What's it called?

Shapiro: It doesn't have a name, but otherwise it's there.

Pitchfork: Okay. What's the subject matter?

Shapiro: Like all the songs, love [laughs]. And this is on the theme [of an] old ex that you feel hurt from, and how you handle it.

Pitchfork: I think that's something we can all relate to.

Shapiro: Yes [laughs].

Pitchfork: So pretty much everything written about Sally Shapiro addresses your shyness-- how you make Johan leave the room and mow the lawn when you record your vocals, and so forth-- first of all, how true is this? Is it something you'd admit to yourself?

Shapiro: It is true, Johan has never listened when I sing the songs.

Pitchfork: If you don't mind my saying so, you don't sound too terribly shy...

Shapiro: Okay, thank you [laughs]. I think it's different when you do art things-- it has a feeling in it. Like if you sing or if you paint something, or if you write a novel-- stuff like that-- you put a part of yourself in it, in another way than if you present something theoretical or something like that. I think singing seems so personal; I'm shy about that.

Pitchfork: You're making yourself vulnerable. I imagine that's a part of it?

Shapiro: Yes, that's the point. And therefore it's like that.

Pitchfork: So you still don't let anyone listen?

Shapiro: Yes, it's still like that. I actually have some recordings-- because I do it at Johan's place, because he has the [equipment]. So there are some recordings where I'm singing to the computer, and Johan comes into the door because he has to fetch something and then you hear on the tape that I am disturbed and I am saying with an angry voice, [mimics] "Oh, you are coming in here when I'm singing; you're not supposed to do that!" Very nice, I have that on tape now. I saved it [laughs].

Pitchfork: Haha. But now that you've been doing this for a little while, are you feeling more confident?

Shapiro: Yes, of course. It's like that.

Pitchfork: How do you feel when you listen to the finished songs?

Shapiro: Sometimes it feels very good. And sometimes you think of those small, little things that maybe you're the only one that will hear because you listen to it so much. And sometimes I think I sound like I'm 12 years old, so I ask Johan to fix my voice, but he says "No." It sounds different in your head, you know. But mostly it feels good. And I also very often sing like Sally Shapiro and not my real identity. And it's the vulnerable thing you talked about-- it feels better [as Sally Shapiro].

Pitchfork: So there's definitely a distance between you and the Sally Shapiro recording persona. Are you surprised by Sally Shapiro's success so far? Why are people responding so well to the music?

Shapiro: Yeah, I'm very surprised really. And I don't really know why [they are responding]-- it's so hard to say because it can't just be the nostalgic thing that I thought at first, because that would just become a nostalgic thing for the 80s nerd. But it feels like it has reached other people, too. So I don't really know. But I like it, so then maybe more people will?

Pitchfork: How did you decide on the name Sally Shapiro?

Shapiro: First, we wanted to take a name, because it's the 80s tradition to do that. And we talked about names, and we wanted it to be an English name which is not too common, but not too uncommon. Shapiro was good because it also has this little Italian touch. And we liked the alliteration. Then Johan likes names that end with a "y," so it was done that way. The actual name, it was Johan that came up with it and I also liked it.

Pitchfork: It's been said that you don't want to perform live. Is that still true?

Shapiro: Yeah, it is. Again, the vulnerable part, and the bad confidence part, maybe? Because I'm afraid I will get very nervous and then I will sing wrong and false and I will look stupid, you know? When you're on a stage you have to have a stage presence. You [must perform] with very good self confidence. I'm not sure I will manage to do that. So that's why.

Pitchfork: Is there any offer you couldn't refuse? A band or singer that you couldn't turn down if they wanted you to open for them, or something?

Shapiro: Of course it would be hard to turn down, like, Mylène Farmer or stuff like that. But they would never offer so it's easy to say that--

Pitchfork: Well, you never know!

Shapiro: [Laughs] You would regret it your whole life. But otherwise I don't know. We're discussing it back and forth, if we will perform or not.

Pitchfork: So it's not completely out of the question?

Shapiro: It's not completely out. It seems more possible than it did a year ago, but it still seems pretty far away. If there was a show that felt more like Sally Shapiro, but if there was a show that matched the songs very nice and I would feel comfortable in, of course it would be easier.

Pitchfork: Now Valerie Dore, for instance, at least on her early singles, had a singer and a different performer who would lip sync the words. Is that something you'd consider, having someone else do the performing?

Shapiro: No, I wouldn't approve, because that would also be something you'd regret your whole life. No, it feels like-- even though I'm very shy, I still have an ego, like everyone else. It would feel like you would get taken advantage of. If there would be a show, I would like to be in the show in some way, but in a way that I feel very comfortable in.

Pitchfork: Let's talk about the original cover art for Disco Romance. Vice magazine in the U.S., while praising the music, awarded it "Worst Cover of the Month", and you guys put a little smiley on your MySpace in response.

Shapiro: Yes, it was supposed to look cheap and it doesn't really look good. And it was supposed to be an 80s rip-off. So in a way it's the worst cover ever; it's like a compliment in some way. Also, bad cover art attracts people. And it was more for the Italo-disco nerds. They can have it like a reference to old 80s discos and cover art and stuff like that. But to be honest, I don't really like the cover [laughs]. So I'm pretty glad that when it's printed again it will [have different] cover art.

Pitchfork: So what's next for Sally Shapiro? You have the North American release [due October 30 via Paper Bag Records], plus a 12" in Europe featuring the bonus tracks from the new version of the LP. And that "Spacer Woman" track. Anything else we can look forward to?

Shapiro: We will see how people like these new tracks. If they like them, and if we feel that we're getting good input, and if we feel like doing more music, we will. And if not we will probably not do it. Because it very much feels like it depends on the response.

Pitchfork: You mean you'll stop moving in that direction or stop Sally Shapiro altogether?

Shapiro: We will at least think about how we will go on, and if we will go on.

Pitchfork: So is there always a question of whether Sally Shapiro is going to continue?

Shapiro: Yes, there is, because we're still in this, "Wow, oh, people like it" [phase]. We're not taking it for granted that people will like it, and therefore we don't take it for granted that we will do more songs if enough people like it.

Pitchfork: Changing gears here: So Italo disco is club music. Do you go to clubs?

Shapiro: Yes, when they have those clubs here. I don't go to Italy to go to them. But if they're in Gothenburg I go to them.

Pitchfork: And do you like dancing?

Shapiro: Yes, I do.

Pitchfork: What's your favorite style to dance to?

Shapiro: I like 80s disco a lot. And then I like dancey electronic music. Not when they just have rhythm and no melody. There has to be a melody.

Pitchfork: Ultimately, what does Sally Shapiro hope to offer to people with her music?

Shapiro: I hope it will give a melancholy feeling with some hope in it in the end. Because I like that kind of music. And then I think-- first it was the nostalgic feeling but now it [does more].

Personally I like indie pop with no guitars-- I like guitars also, but there are so many guitars in indie pop-- and I like when it has that feeling but with no guitars. So I think there's too little music like that.