Pitchfork

As far as Peter Hook is concerned, New Order is finished. But that doesn't mean fans won't be treated to loads of new New Order releases in the coming months, including the previously reported Live in Glasgow deluxe DVD set (due June 24 Stateside via Warner/Rhino, and out now in the UK) and a spate of expanded reissues, à la last year's Joy Division catalog clearout. Nor does it mean the name Joy Division isn't still making headlines, what with the aforementioned reissues, a pair of recent DVDs, and even a limited edition Zune.

In a lengthy recent phone conversation with Pitchfork, Hook spoke candidly about the demise of New Order, discussed the various Joy Division and New Order releases just hitting shelves or on the docket, and fondly recalled 30-odd years of "dodgy haircuts."

He also filled us in on the status of his current projects, including his work as a professional DJ, the bassist supergroup Freebass (whose latest prospective vocalists include Bloc Party frontman Kele Okereke and Oasis' Liam Gallagher), this weekend's "Tony Wilson Experience", and a recent visit to the lost archives of Joy Division and New Order, which may well yield even more posthumous releases from both bands.

Hook is also in the process of penning a book called How Not to Run a Club, about the days of the infamous Factory Records-run Haçienda nightclub. And he has some words for Billy Corgan, so Billy, if you're reading this: Peter would like those Freebass vocal tracks, please.

Pitchfork: So I'd like to talk about the New Order DVD, but before we get into that, I have to ask: What's the last word on New Order these days? I know you're pretty insistent that the band has split up. Is that true?

Peter Hook: Yes, it is.

Pitchfork: And Stephen Morris and Bernard Sumner don't want to acknowledge that? Or what's your take on the situation?

PH: Well I don't understand, to be honest. But the thing is that we're all grown men, so one of the wonderful things about free speech is you can say what you like. So, I mean, to me, I don't think that New Order exists. So if they want to try and prove otherwise, then that's their prerogative, isn't it, really?

Pitchfork: Do you still talk to them?

PH: I don't have anything to do with Bernard and Stephen anymore...it's a very interesting thing really. I suppose I felt that I couldn't work with them any longer, especially the way that things were working out, so obviously they were hurt by that, which is why we don't have a very good relationship. Now, I think there are a lot of unresolved issues, and like any divorce, you do argue over who gets the cat and the dog. It's a shame. But it's just one of those things.

Pitchfork: Would you say it's different than when New Order broke up during the 1990s?

PH: Well the interesting thing about the 90s was that it was Bernard that left in the 90s 'cause he went off to do Electronic. I must admit at the time I was very shocked. I felt absolutely betrayed by him doing that, so maybe this is my payback? I mean, I never thought New Order would get together again after that. I just felt that we'd sort of degenerate back to how it was then.

Pitchfork: So is there any sort of offer or incentive that would make you want to do the group again?

PH: Oh, I can't be bought! [Laughs.] I don't know, really. It's a strange and an interesting position to be in. But the interesting thing about that DVD to me is the rare unseen footage, and it's absolutely wonderful. In particular the Glastonbury footage is wild. We planned the Glasgow DVD before we split up, and this is the culmination. And I think, to me, the DVD sort of spells out what was happening.

Pitchfork: So you think there are clues about the coming breakup on the DVD?

PH: Oh, definitely. Well, I think so. It's an interesting thing. And I think that Steve Morris deserves a lot of credit for getting the scene footage and the rare stuff, which he did. And also, the other thing: I always felt the last New Order DVD looked to me like it was a hyperactive 5-year-old, and I thought it stunk. It was my insistence that the last one stunk so much, and that this one was to be made differently.

I just felt that the way that people do music videos these days, there's no lingering. You don't get to watch the performance because it's so busy cutting and editing to make it look interesting. I just find the whole aspect of that completely self-defeating. So Steve and I were adamant that we wanted to be involved in every sort of process, right from the [start] to the end.

Pitchfork: When did the work on the DVD conclude?

PH: The work on the DVD concluded probably just before the split came about.

Pitchfork: And this would be...what month and year are we talking about?

PH: It was early 2007.

Pitchfork: I'm curious as to what that experience is like for you, watching yourself perform. Are you a self-critical sort, or is it more of a lighthearted amusement for you?

PH: Well I was just watching [the Rome gig] and was amazed at how thin I was! [Laughs.] That's the wonderful thing about the DVD. Not only do you get a recorded history of your weight, you also get a recorded history of every dodgy haircut you've ever had [laughs]. I'm looking at Gillian [Gilbert]'s hair, and I'm thinking, "Fuckin' hell!"

Pitchfork: [Laughs.] So you can see how far you've come with the hair?

PH: Well you can certainly see how far you've gone with the hair. [Laughs.]

Pitchfork: [Laughs.] So now that we've touched on the past, on to the future. Obviously you're keeping quite busy lately. Where's Freebass at right now?

PH: Freebass is coming along quite well, really. If I didn't have to work for a living as a DJ, it'd be done a lot quicker because DJing can be quite arduous. I enjoy it a great deal, all of us do-- Mani, Andy Rourke, and I DJ professionally, and we do it a lot. And we're trying desperately to fit Freebass in between, which is proving to be a little bit annoying now, because as it's sounding better and better, we're more desperate to finish it. So it's coming along quite well.

We now have a vocalist, Gary Briggs from a band called Haven from Manchester. He's done great. We've done four tracks already with him. And we've got three, four guests probably. I'm one of the guest vocalists. We've got eight tracks finished, and hopefully in the next couple of months we'll have another eight finished and then we'll be ready then. Thank the Lord!

Pitchfork: So you think you'll have a record out by next year, hopefully?

PH: You know what? If we haven't got a record out by next year, I'm hanging my fucking boots up. I'm desperate to get it finished. I want to get it finished for February or March in the hope that we can do the festivals next year, because to be honest with you, while I enjoy DJing immensely, there's nothing like strapping on the old bass and hobbling around the stage!

Pitchfork: Ah, so it's definitely going to be a live outfit as well, then?

PH: Oh God, yeah. I mean the whole reason that Mani and I started the band was to play live. We're looking at the song as a hurdle that is stopping us from playing live, so the idea is to get the songs done so we can play live.

Pitchfork: I've also heard that you were trying to get Billy Corgan to sing?

PH: Yeah, Billy offered his services, and was provided with a couple of tracks. I'm still waiting, so if he's listening out there: Billy, get on with it!

We actually have a few guests. It was quite easy, really. Both Mani and I have a lot of friends in this business, obviously, and when we're working together I think a lot of people are really very interested in what we're doing. So people like-- [Charlatans frontman] Tim Burgess has done a great vocal. [Wah! guy] Pete Wylie's done one, [celebrity ex-drug dealer] Howard Marks has done one, and at the moment we're waiting for Billy Corgan. The guy from Bloc Party's doing one, Kele [Okereke]. And Ian Brown [ex-Stone Roses]. And Mani keeps saying to me that Liam's going to do one, Liam Gallagher [of Oasis], but he's proving very difficult to track down.

Pitchfork: Ha, I can imagine. So that's pretty much a who's who of British music over the last 20-odd years, apart from Billy Corgan.

PH: It's just a compliment to us, really, that people are willing to help, which I can't thank them enough for. I mean I also think that, groupwise, it's very important to have your own identity. So while having eight fantastic singers is a real luxury, you need to have your own core and your own heart. I'm pushing Gary very much to form the backbone of Freebass.

Pitchfork: Speaking of backbones, do you all play bass?

PH: Yeah, on four tracks, actually, all three of us play bass. Which is quite funny because when we originally plotted this project, everybody was laughing so hard at the fact that three bass players were together. I'm delighted to have proved them wrong, to be honest.

Pitchfork: And your playing style has certainly always been a lot more melodic than most...

PH: It works really well. Mani and I work together very well. Andy Rourke brings a different dimension. He and Mani work together very well and form a really interesting backbone. Andy's very funky. Mani's quite rocky, quite Northern soul-y. And obviously I sort of float up there, I float above it with the melody and the high bass. So it does, amazingly, work.

Pitchfork: Are there drums and guitars and other instruments?

PH: Yes, oh yes. It's a normal format. Andy Rourke plays a lot of guitar, and the tracks-- as I said, there are three or four tracks where we all play the bass. There's quite a lot of reggae in it, which I said to Mani, "Where did that come from?"

Pitchfork: How soon will we get to hear some of it?

PH: We're just putting up a Freebass MySpace page at the moment with the finished tracks and the demos. I don't see any reason not to put the demos up so people can hear the music before the vocals; then when you get the vocals, you can hear a big difference.

Pitchfork: Are you producing your own stuff as well?

PH: Yeah. I mean I don't see any reason to give all our money away, the way we did with New Order, so I'm going to produce the bulk of it. We need someone to mix it. The interesting thing about DJing is that I hear so much music mixed by so many people these days, you can get someone who you think is really interesting to do a mix.

Pitchfork: Great. So, moving on: You recently did some shows with Monaco. Is that project starting up again?

PH: No, what happened with Monaco was that we got asked to do a couple of charity gigs. In Manchester we formed for a one-off, [Monaco member David Potts] and I did, which was really good actually. But it was like going out with an ex-girlfriend again. You sort of realize why you loved them in the first place, but you sort of realize that it's had its day, if that makes sense?

Pitchfork: Yeah, definitely.

PH: I admire Pottsy very much as a musician and count him very highly as a friend, but I think we both knew that it was time for something different. But I enjoyed it immensely, actually. It was really, really nice, and a great thing to do. So we just sort of save it for high days and holidays.

Pitchfork: On your MySpace recently, you mentioned going into the vaults and finding all kinds of old tapes and stuff. What's the story there?

PH: Yeah, it was quite a strange situation, actually. When Factory went bankrupt, [Joy Division/New Order manager] Rob Gretton had his hands on a lot of New Order's live stuff, and a lot of film stuff. And it turns out, he put it in this vault to protect it [laughs] from the official receiver, I think. What happened was that the bank lost the record and didn't bill us for this vault. So when Rob died, he took the memory of the vault with him and nobody knew it existed.

Very recently, the lease has come up on the building, so the bank has had to move. So they had to track down the people who had these vaults, then realized that they hadn't been billing anybody, so they let us all off, which was quite nice. But we got our hands back on all this wonderful stuff which we thought had disappeared-- like a full stereo recording of the Tenth Summer Festival that we did with the Smiths. We were told those tapes had been destroyed!

There were about 200 New Order live tapes of mine that had been in storage since 1990 that I had forgotten about. I even found the original master tapes of [Joy Division's debut EP] An Ideal for Living. It's freaky, you know? To get your hands on that after all those years and see your writing on them is unbelievable. The thing is, we don't know what the hell to do with it [laughs]. But it was wonderful to get it back.

Pitchfork: Do you think this will get out there at some point?

PH: Well, I'm hoping. You know, I was so excited to get it-- even found some Joy Division rehearsal tapes in there, which freaked me out completely. Like whoooa. It was unbelievable. It's great. I'm looking forward to sifting through that-- when I get a moment.

Pitchfork: Ha, those must be hard to come by for you, moments...

PH: Yeah. You know, it's a funny thing because people hold some of these memories so dear, but whilst you're in the group, you're quite flippant about that. But then seeing the whole history you didn't even know existed reappear like that, that was: Whoa. It was quite a humbling moment to realize how much you'd done and then see it all in one place like that-- it was just amazing.

But this [Live in Glasgow] DVD has some rare and unseen footage on it, which I found immensely interesting. It could be very interesting to carry on exploring that. Put together a couple of these gig videos [from the vault]. A lot of the tapes in the vault aren't available, so it'd be nice to find a way to get them out.

Pitchfork: Any other archival releases planned at this point?

PH: Well after we remastered the Joy Division stuff, we were really desperate to remaster the New Order stuff. It's been very interesting, actually, because the process of putting all the material together again and listening to it has been very enjoyable. I never realized, but-- even after all this split business, which was very disconcerting, and turned me off to New Order, to be honest-- having to listen to it all again has been a real pleasure. And I think the remasters sound wonderful.

Pitchfork: When do you expect those to be out?

PH: What we did was we decided to do them in two parts. We're doing the Factory years, which is up to and including Technique, and then we're going to do the Warner Bros./London Records bit after, which will be Republic, Get Ready, etc. We're doing it in two separate parts because we felt it would be nice to Tony Wilson, God rest his soul. It was a nice way of stating the fact that these records were done with him on Factory. They're in the process of doing them out now, so I think they're gonna be out in Septemberish.

Pitchfork: You mentioned Tony Wilson, and I understand you're taking part in that Tony Wilson Experience this weekend?

PH: Yes, I've been involved in the planning right from the start.

Pitchfork: Tell me a little more about how that came together.

PH: Well, [Factory Records graphic designer] Pete Saville had idea of celebrating Tony's life with bringing in 24 people that have been influenced by Tony, and inspired by Tony. And the idea is that these 24 people will talk for 24 hours about Tony and Factory as their inspiration in the hope that they inspire 200 young people who are interested in this business that we're in-- describe it how you will.

And the idea is that, you know, they can ask us what they want and hopefully it will be of some benefit to them to create the next generation and maybe find the next Tony Wilson.

Pitchfork: And Stephen and Gillian are going to be there?

PH: Yes, Stephen and Gillian are doing it, though we aren't doing it together. [Laughs.]

Pitchfork: Do you anticipate any awkward run-ins or anything?

PH: Nah. Too old, mate. Too old for awkward run-ins. I don't give a fuck.