Pitchfork

I worked up a whole slew of questions for M.I.A. before we spoke late last week-- probing stuff about the creation of her new album, Kala (out August 21 on Interscope/August 20 in the UK on XL), her take on world affairs, the fate of her rumored work with Three 6 Mafia. It probably would've been a nice interview with a rising star about to follow-up a very highly regarded debut.

But after the requisite exchange of pleasantries and an order of flapjacks, M.I.A. made it very clear that she had a statement to make far more pressing than anything I'd scribbled down beforehand. Nearly all the original questions remain unanswered, but what transpired proved a far more illuminating look at M.I.A. the artist and Maya Arulpragasam the person than anything I could've planned.

Pitchfork: How are you doing?

M.I.A.: How am I doing, or what am I doing?

Pitchfork: Well, both.

M.I.A.: I'm about to eat.

Pitchfork: What are you eating?

M.I.A.: I'm in San Francisco. I'm at some diner looking at the menu.

Pitchfork: Are you deciding between two things?

M.I.A.: No, I've got a vast-sized menu in front of me. So should I order before we get started?

[She orders]

Pitchfork: So what did you decide on?

M.I.A.: I'm going to get everything. Pancakes with everything.

Pitchfork: So tell me a bit about Kala. I just heard it for the first time today, and--

M.I.A.: Diplo didn't make it.

Pitchfork: Uh, what?

M.I.A.: He never made Arular, but you guys keep writing it.

Pitchfork: 'He' being Diplo?

M.I.A.: You're not listening to me at all, are you?

Pitchfork: I'm trying. It's a little hard to hear you.

M.I.A.: Forget what I said. [Pauses] What do you think I said?

Pitchfork: I heard you say something to the effect of "he didn't make Arular and he also didn't make this record." I'm wondering who you're referring to, though I could take a wild guess.

M.I.A.: Yesterday I read like five magazines in the airplane-- it was a nine hour flight-- and three out of five magazines said "Diplo: the mastermind behind M.I.A.'s politics!" And I was wondering, does that stem from [Pitchfork]? Because I find it really bonkers.

Pitchfork: Well, it's hard to say where it originated. We certainly have made reference to Diplo playing a part on your records, but it seems like everyone plays that up.

M.I.A.: If you read the credits, he sent me a loop for "Bucky Done Gun", and I made a song in London, and it became "Bucky Done Gun". But that was the only song he was actually involved in on Arular. So the whole time I've had immigration problems and not been able to get in the country, what I am or what I do has got a life of its own, and is becoming less and less to do with me. And I just find it a bit upsetting and kind of insulting that I can't have any ideas on my own because I'm a female or that people from undeveloped countries can't have ideas of their own unless it's backed up by someone who's blond-haired and blue-eyed. After the first time it's cool, the second time it's cool, but after like the third, fourth, fifth time, maybe it's an issue that we need to talk about, maybe that's something important, you know.

Pitchfork: I think it's very important. I talked to Diplo about a month ago and he seemed to think he had a bit to do with both of the these records, and he was also talking about maybe making another one with you. Is that an accurate statement?

M.I.A.: Well, I finished Arular and then I met Diplo, and when I went to make the mixtape [Piracy Funds Terrorism, Vol. 1] I gave him all the tracks, the a cappellas and instrumentals already done. On this album I self-produced most of the album with Switch, and nobody's talking about that. And it's because Switch doesn't really talk it up, or he's not into self-promotion like that. Switch spent a year with me making my record and I'm really surprised how he doesn't really come across as the person that I've relied on most. I don't know, I just wanted to set the record straight and make sure that credit goes to people, where it's due, I guess. Last time I set out in America, I probably saw Diplo once.

Pitchfork: What is your relationship with Diplo like right now? I hear that you're not seeing each other, but are you two still speaking at this point?

M.I.A.: Yeah, I mean, we have stuff... I don't want the whole interview to be about this, I just really wanted to be like 'look, if anyone's going to get credit for helping me produce this album, it was me and Switch who co-produced this album.' Diplo has got two tracks on there, Timbaland's got one track, Blaqstarr's got two tracks, but the rest of it, the bulk of it, is built out of me and Switch. And if I can't get credit because I'm a female and everything's going to boil down to 'everything has to be shot out of a man,' then I much rather it go to Switch, who did actually give me the time and actually listened to what I was saying and actually came to India and Trinidad and all these places, and actually spent time on me and actually cared about what I was doing, and actually cared about the situation I was in with not being able to get into the country and not having access to things or, you know, being able to direct this album in a totally innovative direction. I was just kind of taking what I was given, and took the circumstances I was put in. And I wanted to make the most of it. And the only person that believed in it was Switch, and he gave me the freedom to have the space and have thinking time and have the experiences or whatever and came and shared them with me.

Pitchfork: I'm a little surprised by what you're saying, not because I don't agree with it, but because, in a way, you seem to be ceding or maybe even resigning the marquee to Switch out of frustration. All of this attention has been put on someone else in helping you make this record, and I completely understand why that would be upsetting, but at the end of the day, no matter who produced the tracks, it still says M.I.A. on the spine of the record packaging.

M.I.A.: That's what I'm saying. There is an issue especially with what male journalists write about me and say "this MUST have come from a guy." I can understand that, I can follow that, that's fine. But when female journalists as well put your work and things down to it being all coming from a man, that really fucks me up. It's bullshit. I mean, for me especially, I felt like this is the only thing I have, and if I can stick my neck out and go for the issues and go through my life as it is, the least I can have is my creativity. And I think that's probably the stupidest thing about it. I wish somebody did conjure the spirit out so I can change that, and now I'm going to spit some politics, I was going to be like this... fucking... whatever, the thing that I was, I wish that somebody did conjure it out. But I'm not going to give that credit, whatever my life is and whatever my lifestyle and whatever people in Sri Lanka feel is right, like somebody masterminded it. You know what I mean? I think that's bullshit.

Pitchfork: One gets the impression, both listening to your records and talking to you now, that you're not going to put your name on something that you don't care for or that you're not fully behind. But it seems strange that people would portray you as being a puppet. Still, I've definitely read things about you that suggest a lot of the work was done by someone else.

M.I.A.: Yeah! In America, that's such a norm, for women to be puppets. Me, I go searching for answers. And the people around me and the people that really help me to work hard on this project or whatever are undermined by something like it's some fucking fad. You know what I mean? Even things like Pitchfork writing that thing about my MySpace, that was a clear sign of where it was coming from. I didn't think it was Pitchfork who's conjuring up the thing about me being something that's masterminded and I'm a puppet for some blond-haired, blue-eyed person to pull a string on. It's just that, on the one hand, those kind of things cannot be generated. And I think it's really sort of dangerous to laugh in the realness of that, in order for me not being able to talk about Liberia and stuff like that on my blog because it's not cool by your standards.

Pitchfork: I see what you're saying. I can't speak for that particular news item-- I didn't write it-- but I think it was meant to touch on statements you made about both your work in Liberia and your personal life.

M.I.A.: At the time, it was really like "I think I'll talk about Liberia and stuff like that" and it didn't really mean much to me, but it means much to me now when I hear it being juxtaposed with the fact that "oh, this guy is allowed to come in and bring issues forward about whatever, Brazil or something like that, but the person from Africa can't bring us issues," you know what I mean?

And that's what this album is about. It's filling in the bridge and the gap so that somebody in Liberia can articulate exactly what they want to say without having this middle-man person who has to be from the first world. And that's what this album is about, it's like "guess what: I came from the fucking mud hut and I got here and I'm here and I did it in 15 fucking years flat." It's not a three-generation experience like people in America.

You know, hip-hop came out of having the right stuff, and you had to have a slavery and you had to have a war and you had to have all these things in order for Sean 'Puffy' Combs to be singing about fucking Bentleys. You had to have that journey. That takes a long time, and in America it took three generations for that to happen. And for me to come from a mud hut and to be here and shouting in front of a disco, it took me 15 years. And that's all I represent. Everything boiled down is that, that's all it is. If I get it back to Africa, this is what I've accomplished.

Pitchfork: I really want to talk about the music on these records you make. Certainly Arular did not lack for confidence, but this record seems even more up-front and perhaps confrontational. You seem to take very specific political statements-- I'm thinking of lines like, "I put people on the map that never seen a map"-- and turn them into declaratory sentences. It sounds great, but do you feel like that's effective as a tool for getting your message across?

M.I.A.: Well, it's like this: I think basically the message is the moment for me right now. You could also say I'm at a point where there are so many different things, and I have to define myself with loads of different things. And one of the things is at the end of the day I'm an artist and I'm a creative person because there's always an art left for me. And whatever you go through, poverty, or you go through war or you get overrun in shit, this is always art that I did, that's how I spent my time. So, of course, my basic thing I'll always do is that, and that's what I want to be dedicating my life to.

And meanwhile, on my journey, I just thought "okay, there are a few people that I met on my journey that will never ever ever give up, and it's my duty to represent those people." And I can't justify myself without being like that. I'm one big question mark, and maybe that's something to add to everything and then people will be less judgmental, you know, less stereotypical and less whatever. And in terms of politics and stuff like that, yeah, I'm an artist and I have been to undeveloped countries and I can use my press and stuff like that and if it is about being intelligent and having that best intelligence community in the whole planet investigating news and making it known that I grew up without a father and, you know, coming from a single-parent family affected me more.

And I'm a product of that. I have no ties to my dad, I had no communications with him, it didn't shape who I am or anything like that, I'm actually a product of my mom. And I think that I find really surprising [the fact that] I paid the price for not having a father and it granted me strength, but I'm having to pay again. Even though I've kind of made it, I still have to go through my dad and get good at certain situations with people that are ignoring the fact that I didn't have him in my life. You don't really get to choose where you're born and who you're born to.

Pitchfork: Let's talk about the people who actually did play a part on this record. The song with Timbaland is particularly interesting, because that doesn't sound at all like a Timbaland beat to me.

M.I.A.: Yeah, he kind of made that beat on the day I got there. He was working quite leisurely, I thought.

Pitchfork: How'd you get him to do that? It's nice and light, he takes it kind of slow. Did he give you an array of things, or did he say "this is the beat" and you both agreed on it?

M.I.A.: He kind of made it there, while I was there, and it was like his old school stuff. But when I went there, he said he got really into Celine Dion and stuff like that. I don't know. He's a legend, though, and as a musician, I felt like I was dragging him through where he'd come from, you know, like the old school stuff. Making something more experimental, whereas he was going into areas that I knew more about, like he was going to work with Duran Duran and stuff like that. Timbaland was really amazing, but by the time I met him I already had most of the album done, so it was really difficult for me to make it work.

Pitchfork: That's why it's a bonus track?

M.I.A.: We kind of wrote poetry, I guess, I actually wrote that track for his own album and then we decided to share it, so I felt like it wouldn't make it but poetry or whatever.

[At this point, a publicist jumps on the line and tells us there's another call to be made]

Pitchfork: They're going to cut us off, but I've gotta ask another question. I'm just curious what your plan is for the immediate future. I know you're touring, but I just wanted to know what's up after that.

M.I.A.: I'm just going to tour because I haven't toured for a long, long, long time, and I think this time I'm just going to have more fun with it. This is it. Until they kick me out of the country again I'll be here.

Pitchfork: Does that seem like a pretty permanent solution right now? Does it seem like you'll actually be able to live here?

M.I.A.: I'm only here on a year visa, so if you could just advertise, I'm looking for a husband.

Pitchfork: I'll make sure everyone knows. You may get a lot more e-mails than you realize.

M.I.A. live dates:

08-03 Chicago, IL - Grant Park (Lollapalooza)
08-04 Chicago, IL - House of Blues *
08-05 Baltimore, MD - Virgin Festival
08-16 Hasselt, Belgium - Pukkelpop Festival
08-17 Cologne, Germany - Gloria Theater
08-18 Biddinghuizen, Netherlands - Lowlands Festival
08-21 Nîmes, France - Nîmes Arena #
08-23 Nîmes, France - Nîmes Arena #
08-24 Paris, France - Rock en Seine
08-26 London, England - Get Loaded Festival
09-01 Dublin, Ireland - Electric Picnic Festival
09-02 Loch Fyne, Scotland - Connect Festival
09-08 Toronto, Ontario - V Festival
09-09 Montreal, Quebec - Parc Jean Drapeau (Osheaga Festival)
09-14 Austin, TX - Zilker Park (Austin City Limits Festival)
09-15 San Francisco, CA - Treasure Island Festival
09-22 Melbourne, Australia - Birrarung Marr (Parklife Festival)
09-23 Adelaide, Australia - Botanic Park (Parklife Festival)
09-29 Brisbane, Australia - City Botanic Gardens (Parklife Festival)
09-30 Sydney, Australia - Kippax Lake (Parklife Festival)
10-01 Perth, Australia - Wellington Square (Parklife Festival)
10-26-28 New Orleans, LA - Voodoo Music Experience
10-27 Las Vegas, NV - Vegoose Festival

* with Lupe Fiasco, Emily King
# with Björk