Pitchfork

Photo by James Carney

Try this trick yourself: follow any statement you make with, "but then again, I'm a Juggalo." It won't give you credibility, but it's guaranteed to get a laugh. Patrick Carney, the man behind the drum kit for the Black Keys, is well aware of the comedic potential of the cult rap-metal band the Insane Clown Posse. Not a Juggalo himself, he nonetheless alerted me to the existence of an unintentionally hilarious web page elucidating ICP's history and mythology.

Carney brought the site up in conversation when I asked if the close-up picture of him and vocalist/guitarist Dan Auerbach on the cover of the Black Keys' new album, Attack & Release, implied anything about the Keys using this record to reveal their true identities to the world. He responded by calling the album their fifth card of the Dark Carnival, and things escalated (or deteriorated, maybe) from there.

Sure, we also talked about the album (which comes out today, April 1, on Nonesuch), working with Danger Mouse, cruising for awesome female bands on MySpace, Cleveland Cavaliers basketball (I'm from Cincinnati, he's from Akron), his distaste for seeing other people's toes, and the indestructibility of acidheads. But the important stuff was the ICP chat.

Patrick Carney: I figured out the name of that website. It's even better than I remember. It's called "An Intelligent Look at the Insane Clown Posse". It was written by, like, an absolute fucking retard.

Pitchfork: [laughs] So it claims to be an intelligent look, but really it's not intelligent at all?

PC: I mean, no, I'm sure it is. This dude did his fucking homework on some fucking lame-ass shit.

Pitchfork: Would the Black Keys be above creating such a website for yourselves?

PC: Yeah, I wish Dan and I would have had the foresight to have known that we would have been able to keep making records. Then we could have started off with some sort of Dark Carnival-esque [concept].

Pitchfork: Well, it's never too late to re-write history.

PC: Yeah, maybe we can just... I'm going to start working on a stance right now, so I can just try to tie all the records together.

Pitchfork: Or maybe later, you guys can have it in your biography. Like in the oral history of the Black Keys, you explain how that all came about.

PC: Yeah, how there was a meeting between Shaggy 2 Dope, and...oh god, what's the other guy's name?

Pitchfork: I have no idea. Shaggy 2 Dope is the only one I know.

PC: Shaggy 2 Dope... The other's one's something like "Silent J" [Violent J --Ed.].

Pitchfork: Which is strangely close to Silent Bob. Is he the fat one, too?

PC: Yeah, I think. [He is. --Ed.] I think the same type of people that like that type of thing like Insane Clown Posse, too.

Pitchfork: So, now that we know that Attack & Release is the fifth card of the...

PC: The darker carnival.

Pitchfork: The even Blacker carnival. [laughs] Was Danger Mouse the man who led you into that dark carnival?

PC: Yeah, he was the ringmaster.

He lead us into poison ivy.

Pitchfork: You got poison ivy while making this record?

PC: We didn't. We kept throwing the football outside the studio, and it kept landing in patches of poison ivy. I think we went through five different types of throwing devices.

Pitchfork: And you took that sort of rough, poison ivy feeling, and translated it into the rough sonics of the record?

PC: No.

Pitchfork: No?

PC: The making of this record was basically like Boy Scout camp. We went to this fucking creepy studio out in the middle of the woods--

Pitchfork: What's the name of the studio?

PC: Suma. It's in Painesville, Ohio. It's actually in a suburb of Painesville called Leroy. But yeah, the sign of the studio is kind of like one of those Boy Scout signs with hand-carved lettering. It says "Suma Recording Studio," and then underneath it says "New Age Communication Center."

Pitchfork: Whoa.

PC: Yeah, we never figured out quite what that meant, but yeah, it was kind of like going to maybe some Scientology youth camp. We got our merit badges in record.

Pitchfork: [laughs] In "record"? In fifth-record making.

PC: Yeah.

Pitchfork: Explain how Danger Mouse affected the sound of the record.

PC: He helped encourage us to add stuff that we wouldn't normally consider adding. Like, he was really into adding background vocal harmonies and heavily processing background vocals, kind of creating a 1940s Warner Brothers cartoon atmosphere.

Pitchfork: That's pretty much exactly how I'd imagine the atmosphere he brings to things.

PC: Yeah, that's kind of what it felt like to me. It was fun. He's really into...like, I don't think he really has a sense of humor with music, but he definitely likes to reference things. He was a really good editor for us. He'd encourage us to add stuff, and then was very vocal about whether what we were adding was working or not. If it was, he would encourage it. If it wasn't, he wouldn't just shoot it down. He would guide it into the right direction.

Pitchfork: The whole thing started because you guys and Danger Mouse were originally going to record the music for a full-length Ike Turner record, which was supposed to sound like demos, right?

PC: Pretty much. Our records up to this point pretty much are demos, really. We would just record them and mix them. Most of the songs would be like second or third takes, sometimes first takes. We kind of liked the way things sounded less rehearsed, I guess.

Pitchfork: And you guys had about half of this record sent to Danger Mouse as fodder for the Ike Turner record?

PC: Yeah, half of this record, plus about seven other songs that were sent too, that Brian [Burton, aka Danger Mouse] liked but didn't think worked with Ike. They just sort of got lost in the process.

Then we went to L.A. to meet up with him. I like going to L.A., but it's still so surreal versus Cincinnati or Akron. My wife Denise and I had to stay at this trendy hotel. It was very uncomfortable. It was just very trendy. It's funny, it was the one and only time I've ever done serious networking at like a networking hotel. I don't like going to those places because people think that they're on "Entourage".

Pitchfork: I've never been to L.A., but that's pretty much how I imagine it.

PC: Oh, you haven't? You've definitely got to go. For Ohio dudes, it's awesome. I just don't understand. L.A.'s really cool, certain parts of it. There's just this underlying thing to it that's just so bizarre and gross. It's also kind of-- I see how people get wrapped up in it.

Pitchfork: That underlying thing just being entertainment industry sorts of things?

PC: Yeah, just like connections, knowing everything... Devo moved there. They moved to L.A. right out of the box. I think right when their first record came out, they moved there. I think if you're there too long, you lose perspective on shit.

Pitchfork: So you don't think you guys could ever move to a place like that?

PC: No, I don't think so. Not at all. I don't have any interest. I like visiting there. I like being able to walk into that situation and feeling interesting and bizarre. It's not something I'd ever want to be comfortable with. You move out there, you end up making Adidas commercials with Spike Jonze.

Pitchfork: There are worse things in the world.

PC: Yeah, there are worse things in the world.

Pitchfork: Is New York the same way for you?

PC: No. New York isn't as...

Pitchfork: Creepy?

PC: Yeah. L.A.'s the place where people will want to be your friend, and New York's the place where people won't want to talk to you because they think they're better than you.

Pitchfork: [laughs] What's Akron, then?

PC: Akron's the place where no one gives a fucking shit about you...unless you, like, buy them a beer or something.

Pitchfork: So that was the first time you'd ever talked with Danger Mouse face-to-face?

PC: Face-to-face, yeah.

Pitchfork: Did you guys hit it off immediately?

PC: We hit it off right off the bat, yeah. We'd all gotten along really well. I don't know why, exactly, but we all had the same sense of humor and stuff. All had similar taste, music and shit.

Pitchfork: So you're all bonding over laughing at the same ICP website?

PC: Yeah.

Pitchfork: How did the tour with Jay Reatard come about?

PC: My friend who owns [Akron record store] Square Records and my brother Mike. Mike's the one who usually informs me about music these days.

Pitchfork: Is he older or younger?

PC: Younger. He's like a year and a half younger than I am. For the past two years, maybe longer, he's been turning me onto stuff that I'd never hear about. Part of it is living in Akron. It's hard. There's only one record store, and there aren't that many people.

Pitchfork: There's the internet, though, right?

PC: Yeah, there is, but that's the hard thing about the fucking internet. I don't really want to sit around and stream shit by bands I've never heard of. I'd rather-- I like it when someone I know or respect tells me that I should check something out. I don't always like it, but I usually will pay more attention to that than if I see a good review somewhere.

Pitchfork: It gives you a hook into it.

PC: Yeah, then if you do like it or you don't like it, you have something to talk about with one of your friends. My brother has a lot of friends who talk about music. He'll tell me to get shit just so we can talk about shit.

I always thought those people were annoying, the one dude who was always name-dropping shit. "You should check this out." They probably liked it, but they want to be the first person talking about shit.

But basically, the main people that tell me about music, that I respect, usually have a good record for that kind of stuff. They both suggested I check out the Jay Reatard record. At first, I was just grossed out by the record cover and the name [Blood Visions]. I just didn't expect much, but I was also intrigued.

Anyway, that record is definitely my favorite record of last year, and I've met quite a few people who have the same kind of feeling about that record. I think it's going to be a lot of fun to go on tour with him. I found out he's only sold like 3,000 copies of that record. That's like, to me, that's a major sign that there's something fucked up. That record is so fucking good, and it sold as many copies as there were people who went to my high school.

Pitchfork: [laughs] That always happens, doesn't it?

PC: That always happens, but you know, when I first found out about Interstate 8 by Modest Mouse-- I guess that record didn't sell that many copies, but at the same time, most of my friends were listening to it. Maybe there were pockets of the country that were listening to it, or people were making copies of it or something. It's always a bummer when that's the case. Your favorite records go under-appreciated, and then some jocks put out a record or some pseudo-hippie puts out a record, sells a million copies, writing songs about their toes or something.

Pitchfork: [laughs] Are you talking about Colbie Caillat?

PC: Yeah, and Jack Johnson. My wife has a subscription to Esquire. I read it sometimes. They have those instruction things sometimes. They had this whole thing about how you shouldn't let your co-workers see your toes. For some reason, I totally agree with that, but I also think that you should never let your fans see your toes, either. Unless you're an actor, maybe. As a musician, who wants to see that? I don't have an aversion to feet, I just think it's disgusting. Jack Johnson has this photo...just toes. Fucking disgusting.

Pitchfork: I thought maybe you were saying it was a thing against the kind of people who wear sandals a lot.

PC: Yeah, it is that too. And those sandals that have those extra big toe grip rings, where there's an actual ring that goes around your big toe. I find that type of sandal...to be disgusting.

Pitchfork: And they always make that weird sound when you walk.

PC: Yeah, I'm just not into sandals, man. I only started wearing flip-flops a couple years ago. I couldn't believe it.

Pitchfork: What about at the beach?

PC: At the beach, it's cool. It's appropriate. Wearing sandals to a bar isn't really appropriate. Wearing sandals to a rock show is such a bummer. You know nothing exciting is going to happen when everyone is wearing flip-flops because no one can fucking even dance because they'll fucking break their toes.

Pitchfork: That's a good point. Let's talk about your label, Audio Eagle. You just hooked up with a new band.

PC: Royal Bangs. They're putting their record out May 13. It's the first band whose record I'm putting out where I've never actually met them. I've talked to them on the phone. They're not friends of mine, you know? Most of those bands I've put out so far, except for some stuff on that compilation, have just been bands that have friends of mine in them who I think are good, and these guys are pretty amazing. I don't even know how to describe it, but to me, it's kind of classic indie rock.

Pitchfork: And you heard about them by randomly clicking on their MySpace page?

PC: Yeah, I got a MySpace friend request. I get like 20 of those a day or something for the label. Most of them are from women's butts, or you know--

Pitchfork: I like the idea of them actually being from women's butts.

PC: [laughs] Most of them are that, or they're from really shitty bands that have never played a show but already have a manager. Yeah, I saw [Royal Bangs'] thing, and for some reason I just clicked on it, just to see if they were from Akron or not. I wasn't sure who they were. It was like the first time I was totally blown away by a band I've never heard of via MySpace.

That's the thing I like about MySpace. It's so overwhelming and overcrowded that it's kind of hard to navigate in a way. But I do think it's cool because anybody can put their demo online, and there's the slight possibility that somebody might hear it and become a fan of the band or want to put their record out or something.

The next thing I want to put out on Audio Eagle is a band of girls that sounds like Crass.

Pitchfork: A band from the UK?

PC: Well, there's a couple. I found some pages in the UK that were really...pretty impressive, like the Shaggs meets Crass/P.I.L. shit. But you know, I don't really want to start contacting 15-year-old girls, it's kind of like statutory--

Pitchfork: Especially over MySpace. Although, apparently Jessica Lea Mayfield was 16 when she recorded vocals for Attack & Release.

PC: That's Dan's deal.

Pitchfork: Maybe you should get Dan on the case. Have him go cruising for MySpace chick bands.

PC: I ran into one of my youngest brother's friends at the grocery store yesterday, and he asked me for a cigarette, and he's like 16. I gave him one, and I felt like such a dirtbag. I think I'd probably feel the same way telling a 15-year-old girl band that I like their music. There are probably a lot of dudes that write a lot of girls like that, but most of them are probably total pervs.

Pitchfork: It would be a good cover for those guys to be like, "I have this label, it'd be great. I think you should come out, and we can talk about signing you."

PC: I think there are more all-girl bands right now, since like the Huggy Bear/Heavens to Betsy era. I'm kind of really into it. I really like it when girls are in bands, and the girl's not just playing that weird accessory instrument like the violin, the accordion, or the arm sock.

Pitchfork: The arm sock?

PC: Yeah.

Pitchfork: Who are your favorite bands with girls in them?

PC: Sleater-Kinney are one of my favorites. We toured with them, and they're just amazing. What's that band called? Mika Miko? I think there's something going on, there isn't that much attention being paid to all-female bands. It seems like when there is a female indie rock musician, it's like a Cat Power or a Feist or a Jenny Lewis, who are all good, but what about--

Pitchfork: The rockers.

PC: The Gossip come close, I suppose. I want to see some more all-female bands that don't sound like L7 or Babes in Toyland.

Pitchfork: On a totally different note, let's talk about sports, which I know you're into. What do you think about [Detroit Piston] Rasheed Wallace?

PC: Sucks. Prick. Awful, awful man. Giant fucking crybaby and a miserable human being.

Pitchfork: [Former Cleveland Cavalier traded to the Chicago Bulls] Larry Hughes?

PC: Unfortunately, overrated.

Pitchfork: Overpaid.

PC: Overpaid.

Pitchfork: And you're just happy that the Cavs finally--

PC: Happy for the Cavs getting Ben Wallace and Delonte West. Maybe I'll start watching the Cavs again. I just, you know, the Cavs have a history of losing or trading away star players before they actually become stars. Like [retired former Cleveland Indian] Albert Belle, or some Rookie All-Star who takes acid and loses his mind. Who was the pitcher, I think he was on the Astros [Pirates --Ed.], but he took acid? He pitched a perfect game [No-hitter --Ed.] on acid.

Pitchfork: Dock Ellis! This crazy painting of that guy is currently the logo of this fantasy baseball team I manage with a friend of mine. It's this weird, neon green, yellow, and orange picture of Dock Ellis with demon eyes throwing a pitch. It's pretty awesome.

PC: That's pretty sweet. I think acid is the scariest drug on earth. People that can take it and not be affected by it are like superhuman.

Pitchfork: You think it's scarier than, like, meth?

PC: I think in a way. Meth will fuck you up beyond belief. Meth is awful. I don't know anyone who's been addicted, but acid is, I know I'm the type of guy who could take it once and there's a 50% chance I would lose my mind on it. I get so paranoid when I get high. I just can't get high. I'm too high-strung or something.

Pitchfork: I heard a story about a guy who dropped acid and was okay. Then he had a flashback and thought he was Jesus and carried a cross around a neighborhood for like 30 years. You hear that, and then you think back later, and you're like, "That can't be true." But it's scary enough to make you never want to do it.

PC: I remember being in high school and reading about acid, thinking, "Oh that sounds cool, you just take this thing and you see weird shit or whatever." Then you get to be older, and I tried mushrooms once. That was intense. There's no way I'd ever be into that. Dan and I actually work with three people who have played major roles in the band's business aspects who have taken over 100 hits of acid. If you can get away with that, you turn into a superhuman.

Pitchfork: Is that some sort of requirement to work with you guys?

PC: We realized after there were two people who had done it, we started asking people, and we found out that someone else we've worked with has done the same thing. It's weird because all these people have the same type of personality. They're like the ultimate road dogs. Nothing will really phase them. They're totally sane, not spacey at all, totally focused. It's fucking weird.

Pitchfork: Do you think that happened because of the acid, or do you think it was there before?

PC: It's because the only people who can take 100 hits of acid are people that are that mentally fucking strong, I think.

Pitchfork: Just indestructible.

PC: Yeah. Being able to take acid and then get in front of 50,000 people and pitch a perfect game is just fucking crazy.

The Black Keys:

03-27 Tucson, AZ - Rialto Theatre *
03-28 Tempe, AZ - Marquee Theatre *
03-29 San Diego, CA - House of Blues *
03-30 Pomona, CA - Glasshouse *
04-01 Los Angeles, CA - Wiltern Theatre *
04-02 San Francisco, CA - Warfield Theatre *
04-04 Portland, OR - Crystal Ballroom *
04-05 Seattle, WA - Showbox SoDo *
04-06 Vancouver, British Columbia - Commodore Ballroom *
04-09 Denver, CO - Ogden Theatre *
04-10 Omaha, NE - Slowdown *
04-11 Minneapolis, MN - First Avenue *
04-12 Chicago, IL - Riviera Theatre *
04-13 Indianapolis, IN - The Vogue *
04-15 Royal Oak, MI - Royal Oak Music Theatre *
05-12 Washington, DC - 9:30 Club #
05-13 Washington, DC - 9:30 Club #
05-15 New York, NY - Terminal 5 #
05-16 Philadelphia, PA - Electric Factory #
05-17 Boston, MA - Orpheum Theatre #
05-19 London, England - The Astoria
05-21 Manchester, England - Academy
05-22 Glasgow, Scotland - ABC
05-23 Leeds, England - Leeds University Union
05-25 Amsterdam, Netherlands - Melkweg
05-27 Paris, France - Bataclan
05-28 Birmingham, England - Academy
05-29 London, England - The Astoria
06-17 Brisbane, Australia - The Tivoli
06-19 Melbourne, Australia - Palace Theatre
06-21 Camperdown, Australia - Manning Bar
06-22 Perth, Australia - Metro Fremantle
07-05 Rothbury, MI - Rothbury Festival

* with Jay Reatard
# with Buffalo Killers