Rokia Traoré

Over 10 years and four incredibly well-received albums, Rokia Traoré has become one of world music's great synthesizers, combining the rhythms and traditions of diverse cultures from Africa and Europe into a complex sound that only she could create. The guitarist and vocalist, who was born in Mali and now lives in France, adds some American rock flourishes to her latest album, the darkly haunting Tchamantché , setting the deep tones of a Gretsch guitar and the steady rhythms of a drum set alongside African percussion and n'goni. She even covers "The Man I Love", which was written by George and Ira Gershwin and popularized by Billie Holiday. As she prepared for an American tour, we spoke to Traoré about her new album, her guitar, and, as she puts it, her new self.

Pitchfork: When did you start playing music?

RT: I started as a professional in 1994. Before then, I used to play guitar for myself and write lyrics and listen to different styles of music. My father was a saxophone player in Mali before he started his diplomatic career. I've been in contact with music since I was four or five years old through my father, because of the interest he had in music and all his musical skills. I finally managed to make that my profession.

Pitchfork: As the daughter of a diplomat, you must have traveled a lot. How does that experience inform your music?

RT: My father was not able to get all the vinyl he used to listen to with me. He couldn't travel as he did it because of his profession as a diplomatic career. The fact of playing an instrument and singing... that I can try to make my dream of singing and becoming a professional musician come true is linked probably to the fact that I traveled a lot, which gave me an open mind and an ability to push my limits. Probably, traveling so early changed my personality and gave me this ability today to do the music I do and to think in a certain way that everything can be possible. You just have to try before thinking that you can't.

Pitchfork: The Gretsch guitar plays a huge role on this album. What led you to this guitar for this album?

RT: I wanted to come back to the guitar after three albums and almost 10 years. I started to miss this instrument and I wanted to come back to the guitar. I knew that after the third album came out, but I didn't know exactly which guitar. Of course the folk guitar is the one I play very often, but I wanted a more electric sound. Not electric like the hard rock happening today. I wanted something more 1970s, 60s, 50s, and, of course, because of rock, my choice came very quickly to the Gretsch guitar. I tried it on one song and I was really satisfied, and finally all the rest of the album was composed around the sound of the Gretsch. Even if it's not specifically a very electric album, it is not totally acoustic.

Pitchfork: How did the Gretsch change the way you write?

RT: I'm in a state of my life when the essential is very important to me. I don't like long songs with complicated arrangements and breaks anymore. I prefer simple things-- monotone melodies repeating the same things all the time. Because I think life is like that. We're repeating the same things all the time; there aren't many new things happening in this life. I'm more concerned about this now than before.

My way of writing also changed and because of the guitar, from Malian instruments and orchestrations to a different way or orchestrations changing my way of arrangement. At the same time, I don't know if it's due to my age, that I'm older now, [but] I love the essentials. I don't like the things around us that are a kind of mirage. There are some things around us that are not actually useful. I didn't know that before. It's very new for me to understand. That became my way of writing: I can see also the new myself.

Pitchfork: There are definitely some American sounds on Tchamantché , some 50s and 60s sounds like you said, but it's not an American album. Even so, it's very different from what you've done before.

RT: Yes. Certainly. This album is one that is more similar to my personality. When you know me or know my biography, you can understand why I make these kinds of choices. I can't do Malian traditional music because I don't have that training. There are some specific schools for that, and I didn't have the chance to learn how to do pure Malian traditional music-- by traditional I mean not just classical, but music that is danced to and listened to in Mali today. I think this position that I have is suitable for me, because the interesting thing for me is to put together all my influences and all my experiences I got through my traveling with my father. My influences are jazz, blues, European classical music; they are rock music and pop music. So many kinds of music. World music from different countries like India and China. I think that would be a shame not to take advantage and do something... not unique, because I don't have this pretension. You can't be unique any way. Music is made from seven notes. You will always come back to something. Even if you think you are unique, you will come back to something that existed before you were doing what you are doing. So I don't think I'm unique or that I'm trying to do something unique, but I feel it is something I would like to hear. This kind of music I would like to listen to but I can't hear very often.

People are from different cultures, and everybody does music from his culture and his experiences with his culture, if you see what I mean. There are not so many people who are interested by the music coming from different countries and different cultures and trying to make music from that, from all these experiences. I just try to make myself happy first, you know? I think about all these influences and musical cultures, then the opinion of the audience is of course important, but when I'm working on an album or a new project, I'm not all the time thinking about what the audience will think about it. The most important thing is to be happy myself with what I am doing. And of course I am stressed after I finish working on an album about what an audience will think, if it will be successful or not.

Pitchfork: In that regard, there's that final song on Tchamantché , "A Ou Ni Sou", which gives thanks to the audience for listening. That seems like a very striking sentiment.

RT: An artist who doesn't have any audience is not an artist. Sometimes there are painters or very famous artists who start to become artists after they are dead because an audience or a public know about their art after they die. Do you see what I mean? In general, in painting sometimes people like Picasso or somebody are not very well known in the beginning, sometimes they become well known just before they die, or sometimes after they have died. I think these people start to be artists after they've stopped existing. When you have a chance to be an artist with an audience in your lifetime, you have to say thanks to your audience. That's a great thing. That's the best thing that can happen to an artist. Of course I'm not saying that how popular you are is the question. How famous you are is not the question. The question is, when you are able to make a living with your job as an artist, that means you have an audience and you have to thank this audience. Because without this audience, all your dreams will not come true at all, because you need an audience to write new songs and continue to do music. I'm so happy about that. For me, each time I'm on stage, each time I'm working on a new album, it's like a dream. I can't believe it's happening.

Pitchfork: Can you tell me about covering "The Man I Love". Listening to the album for the first time that one stuck out to me as an English speaker, but I know it has a long history with you.

RT: I probably wouldn't be able to do this song if I hadn't been part of this project we called Billie & Me. One day the producer of the project asked me to be part of it. I couldn't understand why. I said, "Yes of course, I love jazz music and blues, and I used to listen to her. But I never have had any experience in this kind of music." In the same time, I was very interested because that was a great opportunity for me to experience such a project, singing with Dianne Reeves and being directed by Terri Lyne Carrington. But I was really stressed. I wasn't sure I would be able to do correctly what the organizers expected from me. But finally I said yes. It was very hard to refuse because of the artistic interest. That was a great experience and made me discover that I could do this kind of project and I could sing this kind of song. I just have to not think about what people will think about it and just do things with my heart.

At the end of the project, I decided to do my own version of "The Man I Love", which was one of the songs I sang on stage during the Billie & Me tour. And yes, some people told me that wasn't a good idea because in general in music everyone has his place and it's not very really accepted for one group from a style to move to a different one. That can make my audience confused. But I told them I really wanted to do this version because of the respect I have for the artist Billie Holiday. I told them I didn't know why I would not be allowed to sing a song I just love. If I want and if I love it, why not? I just wanted to try it. I didn't have any pretension to do something better than everything that has been done before. I just wanted to sing this song as I would sing it in my kitchen. So that's what I did.

Pitchfork: You toured the U.S. with Billie & Me and for your own albums before. Do you notice a big difference between American, African, and European audiences?

RT: Oh yes, of course. The audiences are really different in general. Even in the same country or in the same city, from one venue to another, the audiences can be totally different. American audiences don't react in the same way as European ones to African music because, I think, Europeans listen to this music through all the festivals that exist here. That is very interesting touring the United States, because you can be a star here in Europe and not be known at all in the United States. It's a great experience just to understand that finally being well known is not the most important thing.

Pitchfork: How do your songs change from the studio to the stage?

RT: At the beginning of the tour, I arrange the live show exactly like the album, but of course from one audience to another, from one venue to another, it can become longer when we work on it during the rehearsals. I can introduce new parts because when you are on stage in front of a very happy audience or people who love what you are doing, you are able to do extraordinary things that you yourself didn't think you could do before. From the beginning of the tour to now, the live show changed because after each show, I added something new, something different from one show to another one. The show really depends on the audience. Depending on the audience the show can be longer or shorter. Sometimes we can play an hour or more than we usually do. I can change the arrangements on stage while I am playing or singing, doing signs to the musicians to change things because the audience is dancing or singing with us. That's the interesting part of the live show, actually, because everything is possible and everything can change. That's fantastic! That's what I love. That's why I love being on stage and singing.