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Contents 1 March 20 1.1 Universities and Endowments 1.2 Splenda: calories or no calories? 1.3 Barbie Millicent Rogers? 1.4 copyright law question 1.5 How to adjust the watch strap? 1.6 Andy Rajoelina 1.7 Earth Hour 1.8 High Pressure lighting fixtures 1.9 Katowice Airport (Poland) gate guardian 2 March 21 2.1 Is it bad to run too long? 2.2 mumbling 2.3 Writing done on acid 2.4 'help" done thank you 2.5 Mystery Object 2.6 Peanut butter and jelly sandwich question 3 March 22 3.1 What's the URL? 3.2 Just out of curiosity... 3.3 Notable people who predeceased both their parents 3.4 MI5 logo 3.5 Coal from America 3.6 Kw vs NM 3.7 Approach & Departure Angle (4X4) 3.8 How did China's GDP crumble like that? 3.9 The Apprentice 2009 3.10 How are the global debt /gdp and the public debt (considering FNM and FRE)/gdp in Usa? 3.11 Football - Fair Play league 4 March 23 4.1 TED talk transcripts 4.2 intercourse? 4.3 silver fish 4.4 Communal Queues 4.5 lots of freetime 4.6 Reg. Col. B. 4.7 Who is the most prolific author on Wikipedia? 5 March 24 5.1 Reverse Phone Lookup 5.2 Hectare as a measurement of land 5.3 Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester 5.4 lets do this again 5.5 Italian parliament 5.6 Game Maker Help!!! 5.7 British improv game show/trains. 5.8 "Rabab"/Rubab 5.9 What is the standard United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance unit comprised of? 5.10 USA World Champions?? 6 March 25 6.1 Very, very, very simple English. 6.2 NTSC DVD playable in European movie theatre? 6.3 DWI Insurance increase. 6.4 Help Please 6.5 Why are stores still selling Pentiums? 6.6 Manga 6.7 How can a lonesome fella like me find a BOYFRIEND-FREE Girl? 6.8 Logic problem 7 March 26

[edit] March 20

[edit] Universities and Endowments

A University's yearly spending derives from both its endowment and its operating budget right? For example, the University of St Andrews has £34.8 million in "the bank or reserve" and uses a bit of that per year in conjunction with its operating budget? Why is the operating budget so seldom quoted? Acceptable (talk) 02:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

St Andrews website seems to be slightly borked right now. So let's choose the University of Manchester to test your assertion. 2008 accounts. Shows income & expenditure accounts: check. Shows balance sheet: check. Other than being borked,, St. Andrew's appeared ready to disgorge the same information. So we can at least say that the universities do not seem to be hiding the information.

As an endowment is a cash producing thing and an operating budget is a cash consuming thing, it is not true to say that yearly spending is the sum of the two. Expenditure in the year is the sum of operating budget and capital expenditure. Income in the year is yields from endowments, and various strands of other income: fees, research grants &c. All of this seems fairly clearly spelled out in their publications. I'm at a loss as to what information you think is not being disclosed.--Tagishsimon (talk) 02:50, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I apologize, I was being vague in my original question. On the Wikipedia info box for each university, the endowment is almost always stated; but why is the operating budget not stated? Acceptable (talk) 02:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Endowments are used as a prestige figure. Universities that are well-liked by their graduates will generally receive large donations, which generally translate into large endowments. Wikipedia is probably just following the lead of the academic community here; if you think that we shouldn't be you might raise the issue on the WikiProject Universities discussion page. – 74  03:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, most universities invest their endowments, and live off of a combination of operating income (usually tuition) and interest off of the endowments. The purpose of an endowment is not to provide day-to-day money for spending, but to provide backing for an investment. Think about it; if you constantly tap your endowment for day-to-day expenses, it continually goes down until it runs out. If you live of the interest of the invested endowment, then it can provide for you in perpetuity. Some endowment money may be spent, but only in situations where there is expected to be continued donations to the endowment. For example, if you average 10% growth in your endowment annually, it may be feasable to spend 5% of this as part of your operating budget, and still see the endowment grow. See Financial endowment for more info... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanations. One major difference I see between U.S. and British universities is the size of their endowments. Top American universities such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT have endowment figures in the tens of billions, while one-tier down, schools such as Duke, Penn, Cornell, UChicago, have endowments in the billions. The two top British universities, Oxford and Cambridge, both have endowments less than 10 billion USD, but are yet ranked, in terms of academics, with the top American universities who have significantly larger endowments and endowment to student ratios. Furthermore, other top schools in the UK, such as LSE and ICL, do not have endowments that surpass half a billion USD.

Why is there such a discrepancy between the universities in these two countries? If research is such an integral part of a university's status and if money is such an integral part of research, why can Oxford and Cambridge still remain, on a global level, with the listed top American universities, whose endowments are significantly larger? Acceptable (talk) 06:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

This is probably because UK universities are mostly funded by the State, and endowment income and fees form a minor part of their overall income. US universities are completely independent of the US State. The Higher Education Funding Council is the funding body: "Working in partnership, the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) promotes and funds high-quality, cost-effective teaching and research, meeting the diverse needs of students, the economy and society." This link [1] shows how much each institution gets from HEFCE. Universities charge top-up fees to students in order to gain extra income. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, U.S. universities are mostly government funded as well. It is important to remember that when comparing a Unitary state like the UK with a Federal state like the U.S., its somewhat apples and oranges. In the U.S., the federal government does not directly fund universities, HOWEVER, all state governments DO. All states run a state university system, and the vast majority of U.S. university students attend a state-sponsored or state-supported university. Even private universities receive some government funding, in the form of Student financial aid. Courts have ruled that a university accepting student financial aid from the federal government makes that school subject to laws, such as equal access laws like Title IX. From a legal point of view, "private" universities which accept federal student financial aid are essentially receiving public money, and are thus must obey laws as though they were a public university. The American university system is probably just as much funded by the state as the UK one is, its just that the American university system is more convoluted due to, well, the entire American system being more convoluted (i.e. Federalism)... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 11:57, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

There is some state funding for tuition, but is there much funding for research? In the UK, Universities get lots of public money for research. --Tango (talk) 12:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

As they do in the U.S. The National Institutes of Health, the National Science Foundation and other agencies of the federal government provide HUGE amounts of research funding to universities, both "public" and "private". --Jayron32.talk.contribs 15:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Nonetheless the U.S. universities with the huge endowments - the ones that give rise to the question - are private institutions (a few public institutions are high on the list, but they are vast, so endowment per head is small). There is only one private university in the UK (the not very notable University of Buckingham). I don't have much doubt that Oxford and Cambridge get far more state support per student than Harvard and Yale overall. (This could be checked, but it might take some time, as I doubt that Oxford and Cambridge produce accounts that consolidate the income of all the separate colleges). Mowsbury (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Splenda: calories or no calories?

I'm just a little confused about the wording of Splenda in the reference to its caloric contents. When a "Zero calorie drink" such as Fresca or Coke Zero is sweetened with artificial sweeteners, such as Splenda, the drink contains zero calories? But in the little tear-open packets of Splenda, there are actually calories (3.31 per gram)? Acceptable (talk) 03:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The calorie count in foods is usually rounded down and/or be split in such a way that the "serving" conveniently has less than a listable amount. Our article on nutrition facts label mentions that the same system is used for the fat count, "Products containing less than 5g of fat show amounts rounded to the nearest .5g. Amounts less than .5g are rounded to 0g. For example, if a product contains .45g of trans fat per serving, and the package contains 18 servings, the label would show 0g of trans fat, even though the product actually contains a total of 8.1g of trans fat." Matt Deres (talk) 03:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

According to our article on Splenda, "Splenda products that also include bulking agents contain 12.4% the calories of the same volume of sugar". Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

However, those bulking agents are only used in commercially availible splenda, the stuff you buy in the yellow box at the grocery store. When used in soft drinks, the manufacturer has no need for those bulking agents, and so can use pure sucralose. Its the same with other articifical sweeteners, like Acesulfame potassium and aspartame. Basically, the artificial sweeteners are SO sweet, that they need to be diluted to be of a practical volume for the home cook to use them. However, on the industrial scale used at cola bottling plants, the amounts are large enough so that the pure sweetener can be used. So while retail Splenda may not be calorie-free, Diet Soda may be very close to it... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:48, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Even if diet sodas aren't quite calorie-free, I think they're often close enough to make the difference effectively negligible. The bottle of Pepsi Max in my fridge, for example, has 0,4 kcal per 100 ml -- so the entire 1,5 l bottle contains about 6 kcal of energy. That's really not going to make any difference to anyone, unless someone is drinking several bottles of the stuff a day, and even then he'd have to drink about ten bottles of the stuff to match the calories in a single apple. (Which is not to say that diet sodas are necessarily good for you, but in terms of the calories they contain, they're not really a problem.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 14:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, but much of these calories comes from any number of sources, such as Caramel color or the "natural flavors" and not necessarily from the sweetener... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 15:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Barbie Millicent Rogers?

Hi, there is some confusion with the true full name of Barbie. It is said she was modeled after one of America's most fashionable and talented heiresses, Millicent Rogers. The first Barbie dolls look very much like her. It would make perfect sense as well. Barbie Millicent Rogers makes perfect sense, and I think "Roberts" is a mistake. Are any of the family members of the Handler family still alive to verify this? There are so many conflicting sources of this possible error, and recently, with the 50th anniversary, most of the media seemed to have it wrong as well. Can anyone help with this? Millicent Rogers was an incredible woman of multiple talents, as well as being incredibly stylish and beautiful. Naming Barbie after her is very interesting because she was a pioneer and multi-faceted Renaissance woman, and this could debunk much of the "dumb Barbie" image which is very negative. ----AntoniaS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.201.136.162 (talk) 04:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Barbie was designed after the German Bild Lilli doll, which in turn was based on a German cartoon. The names "Barbie" and "Ken" were taken from the daughter and son of the designer at Mattel, Ruth Handler. So, the name should be "Barbie Handler", I suppose, although that sounds like someone who plays with the dolls, doesn't it ? And if it's also "Ken Handler", this makes their dating relationship rather incestuous. StuRat (talk) 06:50, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily, Stu. Franklin Roosevelt dated Eleanor Roosevelt before they were married, and only on marriage did she change her name from Roosevelt to Roosevelt. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe they were related. Of course, you can't blame FDR for bending the rules when it comes to such a beauty as Eleanor, just as Prince Charles did with Camilla Parker Bowles. :-) StuRat (talk) 17:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, FDR and Eleanor were 5th cousins once removed, nowhere near enough for it to be incestuous. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

All of the news reports on the 50th anniversary have called her Roberts, not Rogers or Handler. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] copyright law question

Who is the owner of the copyright in the case of a work produced for valuable consideration at the instance of another person? In the case of a photograph taken, or a painting or portrait drawn, or an engraving or a cinematograph film made, for valuable consideration at the instance of any person, such person shall, in the absence of any agreement to the contrary, be the first owner of the copyright therein.

This is according to the Indian law. Are there similar provisions in the copyright laws in US and Britain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sundardas (talk • contribs) 09:41, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

• See copyright, specifically pertaining to "work for hire". There are many criteria involved, but essentially "instance and expense" are, as apparently in India, the two main ones. Rhinoracer (talk) 11:04, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] How to adjust the watch strap?

I recently purchased the watch casio illuminator module no. 2524 from ebay along with its manual. The strap is too big for me and I tried to remove one of the 4 links by pushing into a small pit the direction indicated by the arrows with the screwdriver. The other side of the strap also has last 4 links that have an arrow. you can see the arrows and small holes here: http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8991/watchm.jpg . Information about the strap is not in the manual. Could you please say how to remove the links and reattach them?. thanks in advance —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.25 (talk) 10:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Please see [2] and www dot ehow.com/how_4428182_adjust-watch-band.html. (second link cannot be saved in normal manner so you have to repair it). Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:35, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

If you have an awl and a small hammer, you can punch out the rods that hold the links (unless they are clearly screws, its hard to see). Your best bet would be to just take it to a jeweler. Livewireo (talk) 15:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Removing links is quite a big adjustment. You can get an easier and smaller adjustment by moving the point where the strap joins to the outer part of the buckle, to one of the other holes (I can see about 4 small holes on the far right of your photo). You will need a small, thin screwdriver (or maybe an unfolded paperclip) to compress the small spring-loaded rod. Astronaut (talk) 17:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers. I used a small screwdriver and pliers and now iam wearing it!. A small disappointment as I researched more about this watch.. it is called DB37HD-7AV and costs only about 20 bucks. I bid perhaps a little too much on ebay since the watch does not look that cheap and that it is a casio. Long live consumerism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.26 (talk) 10:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Andy Rajoelina

I wasn't sure where to ask this question at...so I asked it here. Should this information in the article Antananarivo be changed? "The Mayor is currently Andry Rajoelina, [1] currently involved in a political standoff with Marc Ravalomanana, the president, over closure of a TV station." As opposed to this article 2009 Malagasy political crisis where it says that he is the new president. Just wanted to make sure before I change any information. Thanks! :) :) Papercutbiology♫ (talk) 11:44, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I am not much myself familiar with the Malagasy political situation; but if you have reliable sources which you can cite to back up your statements, then you can and should change articles to accurately reflect the current situation. You may also want to read WP:BOLD. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:01, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. Papercutbiology♫ (talk) 12:08, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please do update this. It shouldn't be hard to find reliable sources as this has all been widely reported, but it seems that nobody has got around to updating the Antananarivo article. Warofdreams talk 12:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Y Done I updated it. If you're interested, feel free to reword it. I worded it to the best of my ability, but I'm not perfect. It's updated now, though. :) Papercutbiology♫ (talk) (Sign here!) 16:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Earth Hour

I wanna know at what time i should turn off my lights (Pakistan Time) on the 28th of March to support Earth Hour 2009. I live in Pakistan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.37.47 (talk) 13:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

8:30 PM local time, no matter where you live. So not everyone in the world will turn off their lights at the same time, just at 8:30 their time. --Alinnisawest,^{Dalek Empress} (extermination requests here) 13:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

If you want to show your support more meaningfully, though, you should start turning off your lights whenever you can function without them. Algebraist 14:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I think earth hour is a noble idea. That is why I am burning an effigy of Al Gore with 1 gallon of gasoline during earth hour. Since everyone will have their lights off, It should be well visible. 16:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Last year, I just opened the main electrical breaker for the house for an hour at 8:30 local. At that time I lit a kerosene lamp and turned on a battery radio for entertainment. This year, to get a smaller carbon foot print, I will use solar powered lights and perhaps play some records on a wind-up cylinder phonograph. Edison (talk) 19:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] High Pressure lighting fixtures

Moved to Science Ref Desk

[edit] Katowice Airport (Poland) gate guardian

Hi. I flew from Katowice (Pyrzowice) Airport in Poland earlier this week, and arriving on the bus I noticed a 'gate guardian' at the entrance to the Airport complex. Can anyone identify the type of plane, or provide any photos of it? Thanks 62.6.252.139 (talk) 21:32, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

You can just make it out in the right hand side of this image http://images2.jetphotos.net/img/2/2/8/6/85535_1234181682.jpg and [3] identifies it as a MiG-21MF 6503 (large image). I see from the polish article on the airport that both MiG19's and 21's were stationed there in the past. Nanonic (talk) 22:08, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

And there are quite of few pics of it on flickr here. Nanonic (talk) 22:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thats great, thanks :-) 62.6.252.139 (talk) 22:46, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] March 21

[edit] Is it bad to run too long?

For example running for more than an hour? I heard somewhere that it is bad to run for more than 45 minutes because your body will burn your muscles for energy.--75.187.113.105 (talk) 00:13, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Ask a doctor or personal trainer. It almost certainly varies from person to person and also on the exact nature of the running you are doing. I can tell you that the body will use muscles for energy if it needs to, but only if it runs out of other sources (from food, primarily). As long as you eat enough, your body being forced to metabolise your muscles won't be a problem, but there are other ways too much exercise can harm you. A personal trainer will be able to prepare a training routine for you that will help you achieve whatever your goals are without harming you. We can't do that for you here, though. --Tango (talk) 00:23, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

See Aerobic exercise, in particular the diagram File:Exercise zones.png. A runner within the "weight control" zone will burn primarily fat. A runner within the "aerobic" zone will get calories from wherever possible as quick as possible, including by cannibalizing muscle, which is why marathon runners, who are already stick thin, eat carbohydrate "goo" as they run in competitions. Fitness levels, as measured by VO2 max, vary wildly from person to person, and someone who doesn't exercise may be at their VO2 max and collapsing at a pace that a trained runner considers to be a warm-up and can easily maintain over an hour. Like Tango says above, nobody on this board is qualified to give you medical advice so you should talk to a fitness or health care professional before starting an exercise regime. - BanyanTree 05:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

To answer the title, the answer is yes. No matter what sort of runner you are and what sort of fitness level you have, I think most people would agree that you can run for so long that you will eventually bring harm to yourself (persuming you have the will power to force yourself to run for so long). But for some people this could be more then an hour. As the posters above have said, if you are planning to do this yourself, you need to consult a professional to find out what the best and safest regime for you is. Nil Einne (talk) 08:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• The title says it all, pretty much anything is bad when it's not done in moderation. So running for too long is bad. Whether 45 minutes is bad for you personally, is something I can't possibly know, but with the right diet and training, it would be quite easy to stop your muscles from being burned. First to go is sugar and other carbohydrates (hence marathon runners eating candy bars and drinking sugary drinks), then comes your fat. Only after the fat is burned off will your body continue to burn muscles. - Mgm|^(talk) 13:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm still confused. Banyan says that whenever you are in the "weight control" zone you will burn mostly fat and whenever you are in the "aerobic" zone, you are also burning muscle. Whereas mgm says only after the fat is completely gone will your body start to eat the muscle. I have a little bit of fat on me, does that mean I don't need to eat very much before I run? Since even if I do get hungry all my body is doing is getting rid of fat? And another question, what other risks are there for running too long? I can understand doing anything is bad when it's done too much but like more specifically what risks are there?--75.187.113.105 (talk) 23:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You don't want to completely run out of fat, that is very bad - it serves more purposes than just an energy reserve. I don't think there is a simple cutoff where your body stops using fat and starts using muscle. Other harm running can cause includes pulling muscles and injuring joints (particularly ankles and knees). You really need to see a professional to get a good training regime put together for you, there is very little we can do for help. --Tango (talk) 23:58, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] mumbling

what does it mean when one falls asleep, yet awakes immediately due to his mumbling, resulting in him no falling asleep?--Shacky1 (talk) 05:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

It generally means that one has lived chastely until one´s nuptional night and belatedly discovers important details of the partner´s idiosyncracies. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Unless one has married oneself, I don't think you're on the right track. – 74  14:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It is possible for one to snore loudly enough to wake oneself; presumably mumbling might work with a particularly light sleep. I would expect, however, that a lack of sleep would eventually lead to a deep sleep no mumble could interrupt. – 74  14:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Writing done on acid

Are any samples available online of unedited writing that was done entirely under the influence of LSD, particularly about the trip? (There doesn't seem to be such a category in the Erowid LSD vault.) NeonMerlin 06:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a book by Hunter S. Thompson called Screw-Jack (1991) which seems to come pretty darn close to your description, though, in this case, it's entirely possible that it was deliberately written in that "style", as opposed to while actually under the influence. --Ericdn (talk) 22:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Lots of Hunter S. Thompson's books were influenced by his use of drugs; including the fantastic Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, though again this was largely fictionalized and probably written at least part-ways sober. The problem with finding "unedited" writing while on acid is that published books tend not to go unedited; and books only tend to get published if the story is somewhat interesting, not merely out of the novelty (hey, buy this book, it was written on ACID, and no one changed a WORD!) of their composition. Still, if you want a few fragments of things written on acid, there's I Am the Walrus; parts of the lyrics were written by John Lennon of the course of several different "trips". --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

And, of course, it wasn't acid but opium, but the poem Kubla Khan by Samuel Taylor Coleridge was written about tripping balls as well... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:59, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not talking about entire books. I'm talking about what can be done in one session. And I don't mean that it necessarily has to be put onto the medium by the user; something that was dictated but not read would also do. NeonMerlin 05:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

William Burroughs' use of drugs heavily influenced his writing, Naked Lunch in particular. Astronaut (talk) 15:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] 'help" done thank you

to: DJ CLAYWORTH/TAGISHIMON. THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH.I don't know you and you don't know me as well but people like you is worth to be thank for, i appreciate it very much,esp this wikipedia, this is a great organization i can say.... "help" is done already. Thank you so much. -aim philippines.- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.198.94 (talk) 08:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Mystery Object

This object was photographed in a cemetery in Paris. Any idea what its function might be? One suggestion was that it is used to push cobblestones (like the ones it's standing on) into the ground. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:55, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

It's for picking up large slabs of stone-- see the pincers at the base? Rhinoracer (talk) 12:54, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

As RR states above, these are tools to lift / put curbstones (they are used in a cemetery as edging for the grave proper / seen in the background of the image) into place. You sometimes see them used in normal road maintenance work by the council. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

It's used to clamp onto the heads of zombies, as they rise out of their graves to feast on the brains of the living, to keep their mouths from being able to bite our heads. :-) StuRat (talk) 05:44, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Peanut butter and jelly sandwich question

Peanut butter and jelly sandwich are not a common thing here in Sweden, and the articles didn't specify so I thought I'd ask here. What kind of jam is the usual used in the USA, Canada or other places where this spread is common. I just tried strawberry jam and I thought it mixed pretty well, and the pictures in the article seems to be with a red jam, so which are the common flavours? chandler · 21:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Grape, I think, it the main. Strawberry and raspberry are also common. In the US, though, we usually use jelly instead of jam. --Moni3 (talk) 21:38, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, grape, I don't even know if they sell that here (can't remember ever seeing it) :D, on jelly/jam as the term Jelly seems to translate into Swedish "gelé", and those are less sweet and more in flavours like blackcurrant and usually used as a side to meat dishes. So I don't think I even would be able to find sweet fruit jelly. Here for sandwiches it's more common with marmalade or jam. But thanks for the answer, might see some grape jelly/jam in the store sometime and try it out. chandler · 21:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Blackcurrant jelly isn't sweet? That's -- a bit surprising.

Anyway I don't really agree with Moni3 that "in the US we usually use jelly instead of jam"; that's a matter of taste. I always preferred my PB&J's with a thick jam with lots of pulp. Also the peanut butter must be "natural-style"; this is 100% non-negotiable. All peanut butters other than natural-style are abominations. --Trovatore (talk) 21:53, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Well sweet and sweet, I mean, I'd say strawberry is sweeter. :) chandler · 21:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

No way. First of all, thick jam kicks jelly's ass. Second of all grape jelly is a characterless gimmick for little children. Strawberry is a close second and people use every other flavor of fruit under the sun with peanut butter in all their forms—jams, jellies, preserves, conserves, reserves, and spreads—such that probably even if grape is most common in a trailer park sort of way, it's used way less than half the time. Peanut butter and jelly is the most goddamn delicious substance in the universe and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise, let me at 'em. The only thing that pisses me off more than someone who dares to criticize peanut butter is the bastards who sell "unsalted" peanut butter. They might as well just spit directly on us and skip the innocent subterfuge.--70.19.64.161 (talk) 21:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Unsalted peanut butter takes getting used to, but once you do you'll realize it's actually very tasty, and of course it's much healthier.

I'm assuming of course that both the salted and unsalted versions are natural-style. Any peanut butter other than natural-style is basically petroleum sludge. It has no taste of peanut. Might as well eat cat puke. --Trovatore (talk) 22:05, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

In all seriousness, there is no "getting used" to unsalted peanut butter. There are a few people with very unusual senses of taste who actually prefer certain things in (or removed) from foods that the vast majority of people do not, but they are the exception to the rule. Many people like mayonnaise and most people will not like no fat mayonnaise and there is nothing you are going to do to change that; most people will prefer a prime, aged porterhouse (oh my god I'm making myself hungry) to a chuck steak, and there is nothing you are going to do to change that... well the examples are infinite. Many foods do not taste good or are extremely debilitated in flavor by the removal of salt. Bread, for example, tastes flat and industrial without salt; believe it or not, ice cream without any salt in it (yes I make my own and have occassionally forgotten) is insipid and the same is true of many other foods. There's a reason why salt was the equivalent of money and worth more than gold at one time. Peanut butter without salt is something some very tiny percentage of people may prefer, just as there's some that love lutefisk, but you don't get used to it. If you fed most people unsalted peanut butter every day for a million years and then gave them salted peanut butter back, they'd lick your feet. You don't get used to things that do not tatse as good. And sorry, but it's absolute nonsense that "it's much healthier". If you stop eating salt you will quickly shuffle right off this mortal coil (death). We have been brainwashed and brainwashed to hear "salt=bad". Wrong. Like most things, far too much salt is very bad for you. Water also will kill you in overdoses. It's true that many people who eat lots of processed foods may get too much salt in their diet. But please never again say the no salt variety is "[superlative] healthier". Oh, and I completely agree with you on the natural, but make sure it's salted!—70.19.64.161 (talk) 22:58, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The thing is that excessive amounts of salt in the diet isn't good - but you need SOME salt. I buy unsalted and add salt as needed. That way you get to decide how much rather than have some faceless conglomorate do it for you. But then I'm weird. I don't like PB&J but I'm rather fond of peanut butter and ketchup sandwiches. (Don't say "Yuck" until you've tried it.) SteveBaker (talk) 01:10, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I've never cared for ketchup at all. Mostly I think it's far too sweet. Maybe if I thought of it as "tomato jam" to put on peanut butter sandwiches, as opposed to a condiment for veggie burgers, it might make more sense. --Trovatore (talk) 04:33, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Processed food contains so much salt that most people don't need to worry about not getting enough salt in their diet. If you eat nothing but salad, you might get in some trouble, but that's about it. --Tango (talk) 01:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually most greens taste pretty salty to me. I think they're grown in fairly saline soil. Like around here, most of our lettuce comes from the general area of Salinas I think, the name of which should be a clue.

I stand by my statement that unsalted peanut butter is healthier. For people who don't already get too much salt in their general diet, that might not be true. But such people are essentially nonexistent in modern industrialized countries. --Trovatore (talk) 10:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

OR: Our neighbor was sent to hospital last year with what the paramedics thought was a heart attack. She was found to have eaten too little salt and now has a diet plan with recommended doses. Her doc commented it's like with obesety and annorexia, you get people at both extremes of the spread. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 14:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Skip the jelly and use sliced, ripe bananas instead. Elvis got fat off of this, after all. StuRat (talk) 05:40, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, what made him fat is the accompaniment of many slices of bacon, honey, and God-knows-what-else that I can't remember from watching on the Travel Channel. And the sandwiches were HUGE. --Whip it! ^{Now whip it good!} 06:23, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Peanut butter and butter sandwiches are clearly superior, anyway. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

If OP lives in Europe then getting "real" peanut butter may not be as easy as just grabbing the respective jar off the shelf. OR In some countries in Europe it's much harder to find to begin with and some brand's I tried only said "peanut" on the label according to our taste buds. We ended up getting a food processor thingy and making our own. You can also make your own jelly and it's not that difficult. Just get some juice. Microwave at high till it starts to boil, stir in some sv:Pektin, microwave at medium in 2 min. intervals stirring after each lag. Chill in the fridge, or put in the freezer for a couple of minutes and then in the fridge if you are really in a hurry. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 14:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we are talking about preferences. We are talking about quintessentiality. That requires grape jelly paired with peanut butter -- salted or unsalted, natural or petroleum sludge. This is by the way a USA-centric answer. Bus stop (talk) 14:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I really don't understand the stuff about sweet jams and not being available in Europe. I've spent plenty of time in Europe and they have jam and excellent jam at that. In fact, I have often often bought jam in the U.S. that is made in Europe and it appears to me to be made in various countries, not just one.—70.19.64.161 (talk) 15:03, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

We in the USA specialize in the traffic jam. Bus stop (talk) 15:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

...and toe jam. StuRat (talk) 04:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

There are sweet jams, but from my experience jelly here is not the version of preserved fruit we use on pancakes, sandwiches, porridge etc. The jellies (jelly's?) are in more "adult" flavours like mint, and they're used in adult meals like Sautéed reindeer. chandler · 20:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Sautéed reindeer isn't available at my local McDonalds. Bus stop (talk) 23:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Try a McD's in Lapland. If they haven't added it to the menu yet, I'm sure it's on it's way. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:18, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe the Finnish part of Lapland only has a single McDonald's, in Rovaniemi, and it's not on the menu there... and I figure the locals probably get plenty of reindeer without it being mangled by McDonald's, so I can't imagine it selling very well. ;) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 08:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, everyone's an expert on this one! Really, don't frown upon SB's PB and ketchup as he said , until you've tried it. And as for Stu's PB and banana, take it one step further - PB and jelly and banana. As for the jelly vs jam vs marmalade controversy like many things in life it comes down to personal choice after years of experimentation it's been hard to find a PB and xyz sandwich that doesn't taste good! -hydnjo (talk) 16:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I've never tried peanut butter and xyz, but peanut butter and honey is edible. My pet peeve is peanut butter and jelly on bread that has a hole clear though it. Bus stop (talk) 17:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I vote for cherry preserves with natural peanut butter on home-made sourdough bread. Edison (talk) 19:12, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget that Elvis's favorite was fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches. My own preference is peanut butter and dill pickle spears, but I also like peanut butter and bacon. Yum. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:OR warning here... When I worked at a summer camp, we always got the grape jelly for our lunches. From what I recall, it was cheapest. To this day, I can't stand grape jelly because of that... But when in the store, I find that grape comes in larger jars than most and has the most shelf space. Strawberry comes second with raspberry coming in third. And I can never find raspberry in large jars, so I have to buy the smaller ones if I want that flavor for my PB&Js. Dismas|^(talk) 19:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Grape clearly has quintessentiality on its side. Bus stop (talk) 19:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Psh, forget PB&Js. Grilled cheese is where it's at. Not the traditional american/cheddar cheese on two pieces of toasted white bread though. I'm talking about buttering both outsides of your choice of bread (rye, pumpernickle, white, wheat, etc). Put mayonaise on both insides, and mustard on one of the insides. Then put a nice thick slice of provalone on one of the insides, and sprinkle it with some mozzarella strips. Next, Take a piece or two of thinly sliced ham and layer it over the cheese. Lastly, stick that sucker in the George Foreman and take out when it is golden-brown. YUM. --71.98.14.96 (talk) 21:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Now that we're talking obscure peanut butter combos, don't forget the raw garlic! Seriously, finely chop up a clove of garlic and sprinkle it onto peanut butter toast--Amazing!! 142.132.4.45 (talk) 23:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Some people prefer their maple syrup with salami. Bus stop (talk) 23:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I have heard of ketchup sandwhiches, which is a layer of ketchup between 2 slices of bread. I have never seen anyone eat one of those, but if I did, I would probably vomit.65.121.141.34 (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I eat my peas with honey,
I've done so all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny
But it keeps them on the knife.

(Just a piece of doggerel I like) Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] March 22

[edit] What's the URL?

The following audio clip is a recording of a local radio station contest URL. The URL is said very quickly and I am unable to make it out (especially the part right before the backslash). Could someone please listen to it and tell me what the URL is?

http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm.php?get=1120487487.wma

Thanks. Jamesino (talk) 00:30, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

"hot899.com/superhookschallenge/xmtl//?[not sure about this bit]win.com" ish... --Tango (talk) 01:17, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

He says "percent symbol backslash" in that space Tango wasn't sure about, but it's just a 404 page with a broken image for me. In fact, "hot899.com/superhookschallenge" is also not found. You might try going to hot899.com and clicking on their Contests link. --Bavi H (talk) 01:40, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

So the URL contains "//?%\"? Given how fast it was read out and how nonsensical it seems and how it doesn't work, I'm thinking maybe it was a joke URL... --Tango (talk) 01:45, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Just out of curiosity...

My friend, Xyttz1 never signs his name after comments. I've already tried telling him to, but he won't listen. What will happen to him? <(^_^)> Pokegeek42 (talk) 00:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Hard to say what will happen if he doesn't sign his comments, but I'm pretty sure I know what the end result will be if he doesn't take a close look at WP:NOTBLOG. - Eron^Talk 01:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Signing is strongly recommended and strongly encouraged, and he may get pressure from his interlocutors to identify himself on talk pages, but it is not a condition of involvement in Wikipedia. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

User:SineBot will eventually lose patience with him and gather together its bot buddies to take over his computer and make it explode. Either that, or it will just keep signing his posts for him forever and nobody will really care. One of the two... ;) --Tango (talk) 01:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Your "friend" (Xyttz1 (talk • contribs) has been dealt with at his/her own request. My opinion is that Pokegeek42 should be more concerned about Pokegeek42 ;-) -hydnjo (talk) 01:49, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Notable people who predeceased both their parents

Here's a curly one. I'm after some names of notable people who reached a considerable age but died before either of their parents. I'm talking about people who got to their 70s or older, not people like Jon-Benet Ramsay. Who would the oldest such person have been? No restrictions as to place, time or reason for notability. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Louis, Dauphin of France (1729–1765), age 36, predeceased both of his parents, Louis XV and Maria Leszczyńska. Not that old, but highly notable. Louis XV's grandson would succeed him as Louis XVI. Mr. The Fifteeth himself was the great-grandson of Louis XIV, who had outlived his son (died age 50) AND grandson (died age 29) though both of them outlived thier mother. (as an aside, Louis (1729-1765), despite never living to be king himself, was the father of THREE kings of France.) Just a starting point. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

My best so far is Higashikuni Morihiro, at 52. Still looking. Algebraist 02:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

According to a well known bestseller, Methusalah, at the age of 187, fathered a son named Lamech and lived for another 782 years. Lamech, sadly, died as a spring chicken at the measly age of 777, ie 5 years before his father´s death. The Book of Jubilees gives his mum´s name as Edna (and I refrain from Down Under references), but no age is stated anywhere. Still, it beats 52 by just a whisker. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

If we're allowing fictitious persons, then there are of course many examples. To give the first that comes to mind, in Neil Gaiman's Sandman, Orpheus dies before both his parents having lived for several millennia. Algebraist 18:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I seem to remember one of the popes of the last 40 years had at least one of his parents attend his coronation, and popes are not known for their youth when first elected. Whether they outlived him is another question, though. (PS. The last papal coronation was Paul VI in 1963, so I guess it was longer than 40 years ago.) -- JackofOz (talk) 23:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the fictitious suggestions, but I'm only interesed in real people. I'll leave it with the brains trust to come up with some names as they happen to spot them on their travels. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Technically, wouldn't being the oldest person survived by his/her parents be a potential source of notability in itself? Anyway, some candidates (depending on how strictly you define notability): Jack Linkletter was a gameshow host who died at 70, H. Myron Kauffman Jr. was a pioneering kidney-transplant surgeon who died at 74, according to a Google preview of a 1912 NYTimes obituary F. W. Jordan died at 88, and according to a random forum Sameer Joshi was a very successful businessman who died at 90. You can find others by using "80 * survived by * parents" in Google. – 74  03:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly, I've scanned through newspaper reports about many of the world's oldest married couples (some with combined ages of 210+) and almost all of them have children that are still alive in their 70s or 80s (or died from accident or disease at a young age). I guess having centenarian parents is a good omen for having a long life oneself. Rockpocket 06:49, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

That applies to other things, too. For example, if your (biological) parents didn't have any children, you're unlikely to have any yourself. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 05:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] MI5 logo

[4] Does anyone know where I can find a hi-res (or vectory-PDF-y) version of the logo? Thanks! ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 10:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Clicking your link from Wikipedia leads to a 'denied' page. This link should work. Algebraist 10:22, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry! But that was only meant to be an example... does anyone know where there's a hi-res version? :-) ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 11:00, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's another in color, with about the same res as Algebraist's: [5]. Here's a simplified black and white version which is a bit larger: [6]. StuRat (talk) 15:12, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

StuRat's second link also hits lavender.fortunecity's 'no links from Wikipedia' thing. Again, this should be a working link to the same thing. Algebraist 18:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Weird, most sites would love to be linked to from Wikipedia, I wonder what their problem is. StuRat (talk) 18:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Coal from America

I believe that America used to supply coal to the Highlands of Scotland during the war. Does anyone know if this was true, and if so why, since the UK had coal of it's own.--88.109.127.55 (talk) 11:27, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Just a thought as to why this might be: the wartime economy in Great Britain called for rapidly expanding industrial capacity, powered by coal. Perhaps the rate at which production of coal could be increased would have otherwise limited this industrial expansion, and supplementing local production with coal from the US removed this limitation. StuRat (talk) 15:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Also coal was (is?) a person-intensive industry. In the war they got as many able-bodied men as possible to be 'in war'. By importing coal that frees up vital resource (staff) for other uses. What StuRat notes makes sense too but i'd expect that to be a factor. ny156uk (talk) 16:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Was there a miners' strike going on? That's been a factor more than once. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:04, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd be very surprised if there were any significant miners strikes during the war. I believe the reason is as Ny156uk points out - a lack of able-bodied men to dig the stuff up. It was notable that many traditionally male jobs were taken over by women during the war for precisely this reason - but coal mining with 1940's technology was one of those professions where sheer muscle power was important so I very much doubt there were many women miners back then. SteveBaker (talk) 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Coal supply was absolutely essential for the War Effort, consequently, 10% of conscripts were sent downt' pit instead of to the front: 48,000 of them supplemented the regular miners. See Bevin Boys. Given the insatiable appetite for coal at the time, it's quite possible production had to be supplemented from overseas. Gwinva (talk) 02:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

And yes, there were a number of miners' strikes in the UK during WW2, such as are listed at [7] --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

And more info at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 October 26#Kent miners' strike of 1942. Nanonic (talk) 02:29, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Coal was rationed in the UK: this records a family ration of 2 cwts a month. According to this, Britain was unable to import coal during the war. Certainly, production increased massively, requiring Newfoundland loggers to help log British forests to provide pit props. I can't find anything which supports the idea coal was imported from the US. (Incidentally, the USA had pretty much switched to petroleum over coal,and were Japan's main source which this article reckons was a contributory factor in the attack on Pearl Harbor.) Gwinva (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for all this. Coal was certainly brought in by ship to the Dornoch Firth, there are the remains of the jetties, a weighing scale is still in position and rusting away and I recovered from the shore line a bent, rusting, handleless coal shovel bearing the words "Made in America".--88.109.127.55 (talk) 07:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.127.55 (talk) 07:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Kw vs NM

When comparing motor vehicle specifications such as those listed here [8] what is the relevance of Kw vs Nm ? To my mind Kw indicates "power" and Nm "torque", however at the end of the day both seem to add up to the same thing ... namely the ability of the engine to move the vehicle. Which one should I be looking at ?--196.207.33.197 (talk) 16:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Torque is more important for low-end acceleration and towing, while power is more important for high end acceleration and maximum top speed. So, if you want to tow a trailer up a mountain, look at torque, if you want to pass people on the highway like they were standing still, look at power. StuRat (talk) 17:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. In a sense - the horsepower (kW) number is a measure of how fast you can go - and torque is a measure of how hard you can accelerate get to that speed. Since most cars can easily exceed the speed limit by much more than you're likely to ever want to risk, the torque number is actually the more important of the two for practical driving purposes. But even that isn't really enough to tell you very much. The numbers published are peak numbers - but that peak only occurs at one particular value of RPM. There is a vast difference between a vehicle with a very 'sharp' torque-vs-rpm curve versus one with a 'flat' curve. To pick a car I know a lot about: My MINI Cooper'S has less peak torque than (say) a VW Bug Turbo - but over a standing quarter - I'll leave the bug standing because my torque curve is very flat. So my car is pulling at close to peak torque all the way from about 3000 rpm to about 6000 - which means I have a much better 0-60 time...but also my 60-90 mph time is good also. But then you get into gear ratios and such. A 2003 MINI Cooper'S has the exact same engine as the 2005 model - but when they designed that first gearbox, they didn't have good data on the engine's performance...so they didn't pick the optimum ratios. The 2005 gearbox was designed with full knowledge of practical engine performance - and it shaves almost a full second off the 0-60 time with an identical engine, identical weight, identical aerodynamics, tires, suspension, etc. Also, when comparing torque - you have to be careful that you're getting an 'apples-and-apples' comparison - some manufacturers talk about torque 'at the crank' while other talk about torque 'at the wheels'. The former doesn't include losses in the transmission - the latter does. With turbo-charged cars, you also find a phenomenon known as 'turbo-lag' which results in a palpable delay between stomping on the gas and actually getting the torque you expect. Supercharged cars don't exhibit that problem. There is a lot more to it than just looking at the kW and Nm numbers.

Thanks !--41.15.222.101 (talk) 17:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Approach & Departure Angle (4X4)

The approach angle of a 4X4 (see previous question) is listed as 37 degrees and the departure angle as 46 degrees. I have read up on these terms and find that they are the maximum angle a vehicle can go up or down a slope from or to the level, without bumping its front or rear bumper on the ground. However does this actually reflect both i) the ability of the vehicle to actually tackle these slopes (does it really have the power, weight lack thereof, etc to climb a 37 slope, or will it hypothetically stall first at say 30 degrees) and ii) assuming it could climb said 37 slope and subsequently descend said 46 slope, is it proportioned such that it won't topple over backwards or forwards on me first ? Don't want to be misled by clever marketing-talk only to land up on my head at the bottom of a slope !!--196.207.33.197 (talk) 17:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

They do not take into account anything other than the angle indicated. Actually getting up a 37° slope also relies on you having the power and traction as well. A 37° slope isn't that hard to get up if the surface that you're dealing with is a good one and you have decent tires. Would I expect my Jeep to get up that angle with mud the consistency of snot, street tires, and starting from a dead stop at the very bottom, NO! But with mud terrain or all-terrain tires and a bit of momentum, I just might. Again, depends on how long the climb is and such. It sounds as though you're thinking of taking the Suzuki that you linked to off-roading which is one of my biggest hobbies and the average speed of my Jeep on a trail has never been more than a couple miles per hour. So, you're not going to be hitting these 37° slopes at considerable speed. Not enough to send you flying head over heels. Before you make an investment into a vehicle, it would be good to talk to people in your area about what they use. I'll stop rambling now as I think I've answered your question and I'm still unclear as to your eventual intentions. Dismas|^(talk) 21:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the reply!--41.15.222.101 (talk) 17:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] How did China's GDP crumble like that?

2008 CIA fact book figure (GDP per capita, ppp): $6,100 (2008 est.) 2007 factbook: $7,600 (2006 est.)

That doesn't make sense. Can someone explain?

Canaltea (talk) 17:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Some real reasons could be the spike in energy prices and later downturn in the world economy, both of which would disproportionately hit an economy dependent on long-range transportation to ship export products around the world. It's also possible that the poorly run and corrupt Chinese agencies which collect such data messed up. StuRat (talk) 17:33, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Those numbers look dubious to me. China's economy has definitely grown substantially every year for a while now. Those numbers are GDP per capita, so I guess it is possible their population has grown faster than their economy... I'll try and find some figures for Chinese population growth. --Tango (talk) 20:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

The same source gives the population growth rate for 2009 as 0.655%, so I don't think it's at all plausible that there was 10-15% growth during 2007/8 (which is roughly what we be required for those numbers to be correct. The numbers are almost certainly wrong. --Tango (talk) 20:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Of course, it's possible they were using a new figure for population and an old figure for GDP; but I'm guessing population hasn't gone up 20% in two years, though, but it could be a certain combination of factors like this influencing both measurements (say the original pop. figure was already old). - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 20:12, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

The figures would have to be 10 or 20 years out of date. The numbers are just wrong (or, at least, not comparable - they may have changed methodologies so both numbers are right just measuring different things). --Tango (talk) 20:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes, I do think your answer's more likely, I was just fielding a possibly supplementary option. - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 20:34, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I've been following the CIA Factbook GDP figures for some time, and they are all over the place. Remember purchasing power parity GDP figures are always estimates, and the CIA obviously changes the basis of its estimates from time to time. Examples: Russia's number went from 36.8% of the UK number (my basis of reference) in 2002 to 32.1% the following year, even though it is universally agreed that Russia grew faster than the UK that year. Japan's numbers relative to the UK from 2002 to 2007 are 110.7 - 101.0 - 99.3 - 99.4 - 104.1 - 95.8: a jerky sequence totally disconnected from the relatively steady performance of the two economies in those years. The U.S. figure relative to the UK was steadily revised down from 158.8 in 2000 to 130.3 in 2007, even though the UK outperformed the U.S. little if at all on a per capita basis over those years. The Factbook was just changing the basis of its estimates. It doesn't do this for all countries, there are many steady sequences, and sets of numbers that clearly correlate with relative rates of growth. It's mainly the comparatives for most prominent countries that get altered for no apparent reason, so I think it's just a case of some economist in the CIA playing with the numbers for countries that interest him, and replacing his predecessor's results with his own in the new edition. This is a useful reminder that PPP numbers should always be taken with a pinch of salt. (Nominal GDP per capita numbers aren't really hard facts either). Mowsbury (talk) 18:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I forgot to take exchange rates into account - good thinking! GDP figures in a currency other than the national one are very unreliable, especially for comparing between different times. --Tango (talk) 18:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

You've missed my point. Fluctuations in exchange rates can move nominal GDP per capita figures up and down like a yo-yo, but using PPP should eliminate that instability. Mowsbury (talk) 21:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Only if you use the same methodology for determining the PPP rate and you use the use US dollars from the same time for both values, otherwise you get an contribution from US inflation. --Tango (talk) 15:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Both figures in the OP are nonsense, based on a miscalculation called “purchasing power parity (PPP).” In the real world (i.e., outside high-level economics) PPP has nothing to do with GDP per capita or income. Indeed, it is more often misused than used with the proper data and results. China’s GDP per capita in 2007 was Rmb19,444 and in 2008 approximately Rmb22,585 (+16.1%). Population growth was indeed 0.6%, according to the official estimates. To figure out the GDP per capita in US dollars, divide by the average exchange rate for each year (7.62 and 6.96), which yields US$2,550 and $3,245 (+27.2%). Any other exchange rate, such as PPP, does not exist in the real world – no one will trade you a single unit of real currency for any number of PPP units – and so has no real value in general conversation. Strictly a macroeconomist’s play thing. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

PPP is a very useful technique, it just requires people using it to know what it is. A lot of people misunderstand values that are quoted in terms of PPP, but for people that do understand it it is very useful. GDP per capita in terms of PPP is a much better measure of standard of living than GDP per capita in terms of nominal rates. --Tango (talk) 15:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

The usefulness of PPP is limited not by the concept of it, but by the rough proxies taken in its calculation. This is especially so when applied to economies with a vast disparity of standards of living (in absolute money terms), such as China. So PPP per capita GDP tells you how much an average Chinese person earns relative to his standard of living. What does that mean? A person living in Beijing or Shanghai enjoys a far higher standard of living than that "average", while a Tibetan nomad or villager in Gansu enjoys a far lower standard. It doesn't tell you very much at all, unless you can accurately measure the distribution of the standard of living in the economy. And if you had such omprehensive data as that, what use would you have for something as rough as an average GDP per capita? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:11, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The Apprentice 2009

[9] A number of promotional pictures such as the one linked have been released. They fall into the following categories, roughly:

• Individual candidates
• Entire group shot, candidates + Sir Alan + Nick + Margaret
• Boys + Sir Alan + Nick + Margaret
• Girls + Sir Alan + Nick + Margaret
• Sir Alan + Nick + Margaret
• Sir Alan
• Nick + Margaret

Does anyone know where I could get hold of the original, hi-/full-res versions of these images? Thanks :-) ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 17:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Why not try the BBC Press Office? See Press pack for the upcoming Apprentice series (it's a BBC production, not an outside commission). Sam Blacketer (talk) 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

No, I thought of that, but they only make press-pics available through BBC Pictures, accessible only by UK journalists. It was a matter of if any news site which had access to them, chose to make the full version available. ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 17:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Or equally, if anyone reading with access to BBC Pictures can get at them ;-) ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 17:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually I was wrong: it turns out to be a commission from Talkback Thames, so you could try them. Sam Blacketer (talk) 17:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] How are the global debt /gdp and the public debt (considering FNM and FRE)/gdp in Usa?

EU 100% (talk) 18:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Does this help at all? --Tango (talk) 20:10, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

NO,but i thank YOU!.EU 100% (talk) 18:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Are you looking for some backup on your unsourced and controversial claims on the Talk:United States and Talk:European Union articles? I thought you said you had already done "the simple maths" required. TastyCakes (talk) 18:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you are mistaking.I want to know these two datas,to verify if they are the same that a guy gave me.If you have no answers please don't disturb!EU 100% (talk) 20:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not clear on what data you seek. Global debt / GDP is not something I've ever encountered. US public debt / GDP, on the other hand, is readily available at the Congressional Budget Office website (cbo.gov): in 2008 it was 40.8% ($5,803 bn / $14,224 bn). DOR (HK) (talk) 02:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I asked the( Us public debt +FNM and FRE debts)/gdp.It's very clear! Thank YOU,but your numbers are too old and don't answer to my question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EU 100% (talk • contribs) 10:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe that those are the most recent numbers available. Thanks, Genius101^Guestbook 23:29, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

No,DOR didn't answered me at all.The meaning of the question is very clear!EU 100% (talk) 11:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes an approximate answer is the best you can get. Apparently your question was not clear enough as at least two editors consider data to be an answer you don't think is sufficiently so. (BTW do you notice that you have a habit of insulting editors who are friendly trying to help you) Arnoutf (talk) 18:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

User:EU 100%, a couple of points:

1. It might be helpful if you spell out what you mean by FNM and FRE. Are these Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

2. Please clarify what you mean by "considering". Do you mean counting them in the total, or not counting them in the total?

3. Please clarify what precise measure you are referring to as "debt" - is it total US public debt?

3. An issue of capitalisation. I realise that English may not be your first language, but in general, we would capitalise GDP, and not capitalise YOU in "thank you". Writing "Thank YOU" may come across as sarcastic and rude. We also capitalise "USA" when referring to the United States. "Usa" is a city in Japan, among other places.

GDP for the US is easily available. Total public debt is also easily available. The amount of funding on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is available from public sources - Google can help here. Notice that the support given to the two organisations made available to them a facility to access public funds, rather than providing them directly with a cash loan. According to our articles, the US national debt ceiling, post Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac, is now US$10.7 trillion, an increase of US$0.8 trillion. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:00, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I found the answer in two banks! Usa Public debt + FNM and FRE debts/ gdp is 115% and Usa global debt(private+public)/gdp is about 862%(a very high level!).I found myself in Official Institutions the answer without many unuseful talkings.(Arnoutf,PalaceGuard and so on!) Thanks.EU 100% (talk) 10:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Football - Fair Play league

Why is there such a strong correlation between the rankings in the main UK Premier League table ([10]) and the Fair Play table ([11])? I've noticed it in previous seasons as well, so it doesn't seem to be a coincidence. --Tango (talk) 19:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

If I understand the sources correctly, maybe it's because winning teams have less reason to complain? People tend to get annoyed more when they're losing, hence a lower FairPlay score and League points are linked. Just an idea though. - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 20:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

That's certainly plausible. --Tango (talk) 20:18, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Inferior teams are probably also less likely to play positively. Algebraist 20:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Why? Playing fairly is probably their best hope for getting a UEFA cup place - I would expect them to make an extra effort. --Tango (talk) 21:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

But playing negatively is their best hope of getting draws (or even lucky wins) against superior opposition, and maximizing league performance is more important than trying for the fairplay title. Algebraist 21:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

But disrespecting the ref, etc., isn't going to help you win. I could understand why they might be more willing to risk yellow cards, but that's only one small portion of the fair play points. --Tango (talk) 22:30, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Jarry has already suggested that losing teams are more likely to complain, which probably leads to a lower 'respect to the ref' score. My earlier comments were restricted to the 'positive play' score, but having looked at UEFA Fair Play ranking, I see that 'returning the ball to the opponent at a throw-in' is given as an example of 'respect to the opponent'. That sort of thing will clearly lower your chances, so you might do it less if you're at a disadvantage already. Algebraist 22:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

It only lowers your chances if the assistant ref is blind enough to let you take your opponent's throw in. I can see there are various things that will make a small bias, but there seems to be a pretty strong correlation. --Tango (talk) 22:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Algebraist was talking about people taking their opponents throw in rather if you don't return the ball it will take longer for the opponent to be able to take it giving your team more time to get in position to defend. There's also the psychological warfare issue, of trying to put the opposing team off their game, provoke them to retaliate etc. As it stands, it looks to me like in most cases the difference can either be explained from the fact a losing team is more likely to want to push the limit in the hope they'll win (cards, positive play, respect for the other team) or the losing team is more likely to be pissed off (whether deserved or not) and behave poorly (all the others of course as well as respect to ref, behaviour of officials, behaviour of fans). There's also I expect some belief (accurate or not) that applying some pressure to the referee and other officials may influence their decisions positively (for your team). Of course there's also the fact that a well disciplined and oiled team etc is more likely to play well in general. In any case, trying to argue from a statistical standpoint that it may make more sense for them to behave properly in the hope they win the UEFA fairplay award is a bit silly since we're presuming people always behave rationally and analyse things from a logical, scientific? viewpoint which anyone with any understanding of human behaviour should know is rarely the case. In other words, even if it's true they'd be better off behaving extremely well, which we just don't know given the complications that have been discussed, there's no reason to presume people are going to think of that let alone do it. Nil Einne (talk) 11:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

You might also want to consider that there are suggestions that top teams have a greater influence over the refereeing profession than might be healthy. In particular, Sir Alex Ferguson's comments to Keith Hackett come to mind - see this report from the BBC for example. Astronaut (talk) 15:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] March 23

[edit] TED talk transcripts

Is there anywhere I can find transcripts for TED Talks? I'm specifically looking for Daniel Dennett's recent "Cute, Sexy, Sweet, Funny" talk. 99.245.16.164 (talk) 14:50, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] intercourse?

Okay, wiki. My question is wierd, and a little inappropriate but whatever; you should be adult enough to answer. My girlfriend's vagina sometimes has a milky white mucous that is sort of a solid at times, and its sort-of gross. And i'm concerned by what it is. Sometimes during her monthly cycle, she doesn't have it at-all... Generally right after her period all is good, and then random times throughout. Any ideas? Wyrmme (talk) 14:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Smegma?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

If you are concerned, then you should suggest she sees a doctor. There are all kinds of vaginal discharges that are perfectly normal (and vary from woman to woman) and there are some that are signs of disease. We can't reliably tell between them over the internet. --Tango (talk) 15:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, this is clearly a request for medical advice, which is something we cannot provide. The spectrum of possibilities based on your description is endless, and it would irresponsible of us to provide an opinion as to what it is, and perhaps influence an incorrect course of action based on those opinions. The only recommendation that can responsibly be made is that your girlfriend should see a qualified medical professional if she or you are concerned. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

In this situation I'd be concerned about the possibility of me becoming infected with something. I'm surprised this has not occurred to you, and seems like a pretty good reason for her to get a professional opinion. Yup, I think that response is adult enough. Richard Avery (talk) 17:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I concur that she (and possibly you) will need medical advice, which we cannot provide. She doesn't necessarily need to go to her family doctor, but can instead go to an STD clinic (which, depending on where you live, can go by various names: special clinics, etc.). In preparation for that appointment, you may wish to read vaginal lubrication, sexually transmitted diseases, and vulva. BrainyBabe (talk) 18:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

This may be something that occurs during ovulation and is not related to anything mentioned here. The wikipedia page on Cervix#Cervical_mucus has more information on why you would only notice it at certain times, but still should typically be once per month. Still definitely consult a medical professional but don't start panicking about STI's before you discount this possibility (because it is something that happens in most women but goes unnoticed). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.228.5 (talk) 04:54, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] silver fish

Today a silver fish was found in my 2yrs. old bed, he has had wing worm on his scalp for about a week, today blood was on his pillow i was wondering if the silver fish is a blood sucker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.84.82 (talk) 16:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Silverfish eat starches and carbohydrates mostly; they are known to be a scourge of libraries for their ability to eat through books. Ringworm is caused by a fungus similar to Jock itch or Athlete's foot. Beyond these basic definitions, we cannot provide medical advice. If you are concerned for your son's health, please seek the advice of a qualified medical professional, in person, and do not look to the opinions of random strangers on the internet to inform ANY course of action related to your son's health. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Communal Queues

Usually, when in a situation with several tills/what-have-you (such as in a fast-food restaurant or at a bank of cash machines) and several people waiting to use them, people spontaneously form a communal queue (I am aware this is culturally specific: I am speaking from an English point of view).

Now, a few times I've been chivvied out of this queue by some manager or other who directs people to wait behind specific tills. The only times I can recall this happening, the manager has had a non-native accent and so presumably is coming from a slightly different cultural background. I have some theories as to why this would happen, but I was hoping someone knew of studies into this (or could at least provide an outside perspective). Presumably queuing and its impact on business is studied.

Theory 1: Communal queuing is inefficient.

Theory 2: Communal queuing (a)makes, or (b)is believed to make, the queue look longer, and thus puts people off.

In both of these, I assume that a native manager would be swayed by being part of the culture that produces the communal queue, whereas a non-native manager would be more impartial. Although 2 (b) allows for the possibility that a communal queue looks longer to someone not used to them and shorter to a native. I find theory 1 unconvincing, since I do not see how it can be true.

Theory 3: Someone who hasn't grown up with a culture of communal queuing may find the concept strange, 'untidy' or chaotic, and so tries to 'order' the situation by moving people into many separate queues.

Of course, it may just be coincidence (or some sort of bias) that the only times I remember this happening the chivvier had a non-native accent; it doesn't happen very often, so the sample size is small.

So, hoping people can provide some insight :) 79.66.127.79 (talk) 17:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Translation for Americans: "Communal queue" = "common line". StuRat (talk) 21:43, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

One other possible reason is that the single lineup, or "communal queue" as you put it, takes up a larger area in one place then the manager thinks their layout allows for. Here in Canada, or in my part of it, banks used to have separate lines at each teller window and they all switched around 1980 to the single-lineup system. However, supermarkets still use a separate line for each checkout -- the long narrow space between the main part of the store and the row of checkout counters could not be efficiently used by a single line of people with big carts -- and while many fast-food places I've been to do use a single line, some have a narrow space like the supermarket where it wouldn't work well.

Another reason for separate lines, of course, is when not all the stations are equivalent. For example, one bank teller only does business transactions, one nbank machine has US as well as Canadian money, one checkout counter takes different forms of payment. I don't expect this to apply in the typical fast-food environment, though.

--Anonymous, 20:10 UTC, March 23, 2009.

In queuing theory the single queue for multiple servers gives a shorter waiting time for the customers, especially for varying length of service. It saves being stuck behind one very slow service encounter. It has to be easy to move from the queue to the counter, so a supermarket with trolleys is going to have a bit of a slow down. If you have a giant queue, such as at Customs at an airport, it will be more efficient to have one big rat race rather than lots of smaller ones. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

(Unsourced information follows) I was told in the late 80s by a Operational Researcher I knew who claimed to be one of the national experts on queueing theory in Britain that the combined queue was significantly worse than individual queues both for overall throughput and for the counter staff, in both cases because of the accumulated dead time while the next customer notices that there is a position free and walks to it. But at that time more and more shops and services were introducing the system under pressure from customers. --ColinFine (talk) 21:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It's important to note that the communal queue is only quicker on average than individual queues. I prefer the latter, as I know all about Poisson processes and the likelihood of persons in certain demographics to write a check which they only start digging for after the total has been presented, on the off chance that they'll save the effort should the total for that full cart of grotesque "foods" come out to zero dollars and zero cents, so I can choose a better line than average. Only the below-average shopper will benefit from optimal queuing. --Sean 21:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks so far: some interesting thoughts.

Colin, interesting about that 80s researcher. I'd wondered if there was something of that effect, but surely that would only kick in at a high number of counters? Hmmm. Must consider.

Sean, only the below-average shopper benefits from queuing at all; the strong/loud could probably get served quicker if they just strode to the front :P Communal queuing is fair, which I think is the real motivation behind it (and why it tugs at my heart a little when a manager breaks it up). But I expect other motivations than optimal fairness drive managers. 79.66.127.79 (talk) 22:29, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I seem to remember there is a section in Kate Fox's Watching the English: The Hidden Rules of English Behaviour (ISBN 1857885082) addressing the very British habit of forming single queues (Bill Bryson may have also discussed it in Notes from a Small Island). The sociological issue does indeed seem to be one of fairness. If everyone waits in a a single queue, rather than multiple queues, then no one line will move faster than the other and no one person will gain an advantage or disadvantage over another. This appeals to the British sense of fair play. Foreign visitors to the UK are often amazed that this occurs so frequently. It is the exact opposite of many other cultures, where it is expected that one should try and get in the fastest queue even if it means disadvantaging someone else. Rockpocket 02:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Some queues have another factor. I will happily queue in a 'longer' (more people) queue if I can see that they have small amounts of shopping in comparison to the 1 person who has their bi-annual shop of (seemingly) 10,000 things. The single-queue multi-teller system is ok but personally I think it makes things 'look' slower than several queues. Whether that's the case is largely irrelevent to me - I have, on countless ocassions, put-down some trivial item I was going to buy because the queues just looked too big and my impulse-item was, well, just that - an impulse. Ikea is the worst place for this - you go in, see nothing but think "oh wait i'll get some new tumblers" and then you get there with your 4-pack of glasses and are confronted with 100 people all buying 90% of the contents of their new home. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Coming back to the manager-breaking-up-the-queue aspect of this, it doesn't just affect spontaneous communal queueing. In certain stores I am regularly beckoned and hallooed at by some officious uniformed individual, who has decided that I should move from my chosen till to wait at one that they have chosen for me, presumably on the grounds that the new till has no queue, or a shorter queue. However, being sentient like most shoppers, I am able to assess all the available tills myself without help, and - particularly when alone with a large trolleyload - prefer to find one where a previous customer still has his/her shopping on the conveyor awaiting scanning. I can thus unload at my leisure while their shopping is scanned through, rather use an empty till where each item is scanned as I unload it and they all pile up at the far end before I can get down there to start packing. This suits me, is an efficient use of the till with no dead space between customers, and probably also pleases the bloke with two tins of beans who gets to use the empty till I declined. My response to the chivvying manager is therefore "no thanks, I'm fine where I am", no matter how insistent or grumpy they get (and they do). Perhaps spontaneous queuers could stick to their communal guns? Karenjc 22:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] lots of freetime

because i just got expelled till next january i am being homeschooled and find myself with way too much free time..wat constructive things should i do? (example:learn a new launguage) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.124.175 (talk) 17:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Learning an instrument is fun, walking, photography, volunteering. Try to find a hobby that interests you rather than something you'll quickly get bored of. And don't just spend all your time on the internet >_> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I think learning a language is a good idea. I found the Pimsleur language tapes to be a good way to get started, and doing the lessons can be pretty addictive and the easiest way I've found to learn to speak a language. They are expensive to buy, though, I would recommend trying to find them in a library or a second hand copy. Less scrupulous souls than ourselves might turn to pirated copies... TastyCakes (talk) 18:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Look for cool science experiments on YouTube and do them at home (following safety procedures, safety glasses, adult supervision, yadda yadda. Then film some of your own. Edison (talk) 18:45, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Perfect timing, if you are in the northern hemisphere, to learn about food. Plant a garden, harvest it, cook what you can and can what you can't, as the saying goes. Through food you can learn about (almost) everything. Plants means botany, obviously, and you can go deeper into the chemistry of photosynthesis and cell biology if you want to. Finding somewhere to garden might lead you to community gardens and allotments and the history and politics of land tenure and ownership. (Who has access to land? Why?) Read The Omnivore's Dilemma and the The 100-Mile Diet. Gardening and cooking are good practical life skills. Can you sell your surplus? That's the essence of entrepreneurship. Learn basic accounting: the seeds cost X and the produce sold for Y so the profit is Z. How much money does your household spend on food? If you were given that budget for a week, could you handle it responsibly, feed everyone healthily, and still have change for ice cream? (Learn how to make ice cream -- great fun!) Go to your nearest farmers' market and talk to the farmers. If it's practical and mutually agreeable, you might want to visit the farms and see what you can learn by helping out there. (Consider WWOOF.) If not, try interviewing the farmers -- say you are looking at life options and what do they like about farming? Volunteer at a soup kitchen: who in your community goes hungry, and why? (That's politics and citizenship.) On a rainy day, read some old novels, looking at how food was portrayed in pre-supermarket times of scarcity and abundance (you might start with Oliver Twist and Little House on the Prairie.) Keep a blog, in good clear lucid English, and let us know about it, if Wikipedia and the RefDesk has helped you. (That's English covered.) Compare how different religions treat feasting and fasting. Interview some people who, for religious or other reasons, have a very different diet from yours (e.g. Muslims who are halal, or animal rights vegans; respectfully find out what their experiences are like. Challenge yourself to eat a previously taboo food. If you have an artistic bent, make music or video or poetry about what you are learning. Gather together a recipe book(let) of what you have learned to cook, month by month, experiments and accidents and all; illustrate it. Have as a goal a great big thanksgiving feast you prepare for the people you care about, to show them what you have learned and achieved with this opportunity outside of school. Have a delicious creative time! BrainyBabe (talk) 20:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you don't want to be seriously behind by next January - you're absolutely going to have to learn everything on the curriculum between now and then. When you're done with that - teach yourself to program your computer maybe? SteveBaker (talk) 01:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Concur with above answers: learn a new skill, one that will not bore you, and one that could prove useful later in life. A new foreign language is a great option! --Ouro (blah blah) 12:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Studying English language, spelling and grammar would not go amiss based on the presentation of your question. Good written English presentation is likely to be useful when seeking employment in later years. Ensure you are thoroughly adept at "Reading, Riting and Rithmetic". -- SGBailey (talk) 17:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Just to be awkward here, what about either learning a musical instrument (electric guitar?) or a sport? Summer's coming after all (in the Northern Hemisphere anyway) and sports clubs operate independently of the school system. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:53, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought of a good one last night: read a book that you've always wanted to read but never had time to do it. Make it a large one. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Reg. Col. B.

WikiProject Reference Desk Article Collaboration This question inspired an article to be created or enhanced: Reg. Col. B Please consider contributing

Does anyone know what Reg. Col. B. stands for? I have seen it used a number of times in reference to British school masters, so i guess it is or was an institution where masters trained, however I have no idea what Reg. Col. B. stands for. Thanks 79.75.160.165 (talk) 19:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

You might find the following entry from Hansard helpful - http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1902/may/26/class-iv "In the scheme of registration of teachers which had been devised by the Department there were to be two columns—A and B. In column A were to be the names of those teachers who held the certificate of the Board of Education for employment in the public elementary schools, and in column B the names of all other teachers otherwise qualified." Nanonic (talk) 20:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I've taken Nanonic's reply and created Reg. Col. B. How long it will last before being deleted is another question, but it seems a useful page to me. -- SGBailey (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Who is the most prolific author on Wikipedia?

That is, who has written the most 'featured' articles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polymonia (talk • contribs) 23:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It's difficult to determine who has written any given article, but we have this page: Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by featured article nominations. --Tango (talk) 23:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Also not complete, but see User:Durova/Triple crown winner's circle. Its pretty much a self-nominated award, later confirmed by Durova, but there does appear to be a clear favorite for the most DYK + GA + FA winner. I'll let you read it yourself. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:30, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't really prove it though - to qualify for the triple - at level 'N' - you have to have at least N DYK's and N GA's. It's perfectly possible (indeed, rather likely) that people have more than N FA's but much, much fewer DYK and GA's. SteveBaker (talk) 01:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] March 24

[edit] Reverse Phone Lookup

I know they exist but if you want a full report you need to pay money. Are there any of these sites that offer complete data free? --Melab±1 ☎ 01:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

For what phone network? Algebraist 01:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Multiple phone networks like [12]. --Melab±1 ☎ 00:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Hectare as a measurement of land

When discussing property (as opposed to geography) the common unit for land area in U.S. customary units is the acre. What is the commonly usage term(s) when describing property/land area in the metric system? The acre article indicates that hectare is commonly used and that statement is confirmed by the Hectare article. However, I'm interested to know if meters-squared or kilometers-squared are also commonly used to describe property. The reason I'm asking is that I've noticed that Lightbot (talk · contribs) routinely add metric conversions in articles that contain acre units, but it seems to prefer m² or km² conversions.

This is an informal survey, so anybody who thinks about land in metric feel free to respond. Thank you. -- Tcncv (talk) 01:59, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Hectare is the common unit for the area of agricultural lands. Meters-squared are commonly used for smaller properties. Kilometers squared are used in the case of very large areas like cities. --Omidinist (talk) 04:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

• Also, meters squared are an SI unit and it's common to provide a conversion to a commonly known unit for units people are generally unfamiliar with. Meters are commonly converted to feet and vice verse in articles too to give people with other preferences about units the chance to understand the article.- Mgm|^(talk) 09:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Agree with MacGyver. I've lived in metric my whole life and wouldn't know a hectare if one came over to nibble my bum. I use m² or km², or even square feet when I deal with older folks. Matt Deres (talk) 13:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, I've been generally living in metric all my life too, and generally m² or km² seem most natural. Hectares are fine and all, I just get the feeling they were kind of arbitrarily decided on because they're broadly comparable in size to the existing acre unit. Using the SI m² or km² is to be preferred I think, although hectares do seem popular agriculturally. ~ mazca ^t|c 13:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh? A hectare is not comparable to an acre: it's about 2.47 acres. And it IS metric: it's the term for 10,000m². Thinking in hectares IS thinking in m²: it's just used for large parcels of land, so you can chop off some of those 0000's. Like using tonne instead of 1,000kg. Gwinva (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Hectares are very much the norm in Canada for agricultural land (though acres are frequently used too). I suspect it's a desire to have a unit of measurement that isn't too different from the acre that used to be used. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Here in Alberta, I often hear people describe large patches of land in terms of number of sections, which are each a square mile, or quarter sections etc. This is particularly the case in the province's oil industry since most of the leases companies buy are defined by survey numbers using this system. I know this isn't metric, it's a carry over from a system laid out long before metrification in the 1970s, but as with using square feet to describe house areas or pounds to describe weight, it is widely used here. TastyCakes (talk) 14:27, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget the are used in Indonesia, French-, Portuguese-, Slovakian-, Czech-, Polish-, Dutch- and German-speaking countries—to measure real estate. In Australia we use square meters, but in the past (1960s) it was perches and roods. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

In Germany are is used only in historical documents. They use hectare in agriculture and sq meters [13]/ sq kilometers everywhere else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.97.245.5 (talk) 14:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Do the Aussies use square meters for really large areas of land, such as sheep stations, or is sq km used there? 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:44, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for all the responses so far. I'd like to pose the question a different way: if you are a resident of the UK, Canada, or Australia (or some other predominantly metric, English speaking country), you look in the real estate section of the Sunday newspaper, and find an advertisement for a new upscale development with spacious lots – would you more likely see the lot size stated as 15,000 square-metres, 1.5 hectares, 160,000 square-feet, or 4 acres? If you saw a farm for sale, would it more likely be listed as 1.5 square-kilometres, 150 hectares, 1,500,000 square-metres, or 375 acres? -- Tcncv (talk) 01:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

In Australia farms and bushfires are measured in hectares, but residential realestate will be in square meters. Internal house sizes may still even now be written as squares an old imperial unit of 100 square feet. FOr a large sheep station they may compare it with the size of a smaller country or state, such as bigger than Belgium or Texas. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:31, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

While the largest cattle station is just larger than Belgium, the largest sheep station is only one third that size - and 1/66 the size of Texas. Maybe stations were bigger in the past? Rmhermen (talk) 02:58, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I can't speak for agricultural areas, but in Canada, residences and industrial areas are typically measured in square feet these days. I'm 35 and folks even a few years older than me still use imperial measurements almost exclusively for distance and area, so home sellers are wise to use the old ways. As the population changes, that will gradually also change. The folks presiding over companies and stores are often 5-10 years older than me, so it also makes sense for builders and resellers to use imperial. The change there is happening from within, as many designers are my age or younger and design their buildings in mm (yes, mm, not m or cm) and simply convert the drawings to whatever works best for the prospective buyers. Matt Deres (talk) 12:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Here in the UK, people will often use sq feet for the area of apartments, sq yards for the area of their garden, acres for the area of a farm and sq miles for the area of the county. However, the local council and the government agencies will officially record the area of buildings and small plots of land in sq metres, the area of farms in hectares, and larger areas in sq km (often with imperial conversions also shown). Sometimes it's all jumbled up with the planning application saying "the new shopping centre will be 64,000 m² (690,000 sq ft)" and the newspaper reporting the "the new shopping centre will cover 16 acres"; and yet when I've looked for a new apartment I've struggled to find anything telling me how many sq metres it is (this is despite the room dimensions being in both metric and imperial, they only list the floor area in sq feet!). The road to metrication has proven to be long and difficult :-) Astronaut (talk) 13:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

In Alberta (or my part of it, anyway), we generally measure houses in square feet, but I've seen land out in the country described in both acres and hectares. Hectares is more likely to be seen in an official capacity though, whereas acres is more likely in casual conversation. A non-farm property in the country is called an acreage, so that says something right there. Square kilometres I don't really hear for land in the country but I have heard it in the context of the size of a city, or for a park or whatever in a city. Linear distances, though, are almost always in kilometres. (Unless you're old, maybe, but I don't really talk to a lot of middle-aged or older people =P So I almost always hear kilometres.) Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 21:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester

I was wondering if this a joint title or are they two seperate titles. Should the two always be used together ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.79.196 (talk) 11:00, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

These are separate titles. Cheshire is in England (and Chester is its city). In the past the Earl of Chester held the Welsh border, and in many ways his power matched that of the King.90.0.129.130 (talk) 11:55, 24 March 2009 (UTC)DT

They are separate titles but are traditionally created together. The Earl of Chester is an unusual Earldom in that it isn't hereditary (neither is Prince of Wales) - it ceases to exist if the holder dies. This doesn't usually make any difference because it is given to the heir apparent and when they become monarch the title "merges with the crown" and ceases to exist anyway. It does matter when the Prince of Wales dies before the monarch - the titles have to be recreated for the old Prince's son, rather than being automatically inherited. --Tango (talk) 16:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] lets do this again

it's diet enhances it's defence mechanism. what is it and what is it's defence mechanism. it's a question i need assistance to...first clue is that it's a bird and it oozes out something posonous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.78.238 (talk) 17:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Possibly related to the Hooded Pitohui? --Onorem♠Dil 17:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, yeah. I'd have just told the questioner to google "poisonous bird" (as in, teach a man to fish.) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:13, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Fulmar? --TammyMoet (talk) 18:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd go with fulmars: "Nesting birds and chicks can eject an evil smelling stomach oil up to 2 m, which repels unwanted visitors. It will matt the plumage of avian predators, and can lead to their death." I'm sure there are other answers; e.g. all foods provide energy that a creature can use to defend itself, so it's not a well worded question. There are other animals whose diet enhances their defence mechanism, e.g. poisonous (as opposed to venomous) snakes.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I am going to say a dragon. If it didn't eat fire diamonds it couldn't breath fire. 13:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.121.141.34 (talk)

Was this a riddle? How did you all get to a bird? The first part of the riddle says "It's diet enhances, it's defence mechanism". I was thinking of some kind of dietary supplement which is taken as a defence mechanism...? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Italian parliament

--Domyinik (talk) 19:10, 24 March 2009 (UTC)First at all, hello everyone. I am an Italian wikipedian. For case, I went to the english article about our country, Italy of course. In the right of the page, there is a useful chart (I don't know if it is the right meaning of our word "tabella"). In this chart, you can see a wrong thing: you have writed (I know it is irregular, simply I don't remeber the past :( ) that we italians have got an upper parliament chamber and a lower one, respectively Senato and Camera dei Deputati. WRONG! In Italy there is the perfect bicameralism. In fact, any room has more powerful than the other. You can easly see it watching our page about "Bicameralismo Perfetto" (see in Italian Wikipedia). I have already done an insertion in discussion page, but no one has listened to me. What I have to do? Thank you for answer. Oh, and, by the way, may you tell me if my english seems good?

Your English is understandable, which is good enough for me! (We call those charts "infoboxes", but that's just on Wikipedia, I guess the English for "tabella" would be "table". The past tense for "write" is "written".) You seem to have removed your comment from the discussion page - I suggest you put it back, someone may take a while to respond, but hopefully they will eventually (maybe sooner now you've mentioned it here). It's always good if you can provide a reference - something in English ideally, although it's not strictly necessary (perhaps the Italian Wikipedia article has some good references?). It is a little difficult to fix, actually, because the infobox template assumes there is an upper and lower house - someone will have to edit the template... --Tango (talk) 19:26, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

(E/CThe "tabella" uses an infobox system that doesn't really allow for two equal houses. You're right that they are considered equal; but this slight inaccuracy doesn't really change much as far as viewers of Italy go (they can always click the links). Someone else can play around with not using the upper_ and lower_house parameters if they want under WP:BB. Your English is pretty understandable, about normal for a second language. - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 19:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your kind answers. Now, I will put again my insertion on the discussion page. --Domyinik (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Game Maker Help!!!

Moved to computing desk

[edit] British improv game show/trains.

I probably read about this on WP at some point. Perhaps a radio program, that was a mock game show and asked questions about getting from one train station to another, but all the responses were made up.

I'm sure my memory isn't totally correct. Like it was a segment on a show? 205.206.170.1 (talk) 19:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that this is what you're looking for. A hilarious regular segment of the excellent show I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue, whose presenter sadly died recently... anyone know what's going to happen with it, btw? ╟─TreasuryTag►contribs─╢ 20:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! :) 205.206.170.1 (talk) 20:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's some information about future programmes, [14] Thank God, I can't imagine Radio 4 without ISIHAC, but there will never be a replacement for Humph and his 'naivety'. Richard Avery (talk) 20:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - this sounds a lot like Mornington Crescent. The main objective of the game is to be the the first player to say "Mornington Crescent"...unless there is an objection on the grounds of elliptical shunting...which there often will be if the huffing rule has been waived - but that rule has been widely misinterpreted since the 1948 World Series fell into disarray following a debatable reverse-play call by the Polish team following a cryptic move to Earls Court via Bank (I think it was Bank...can anyone confirm that?). Anyway - so long as you reach MC by the Northern parallel, you'll score double points under-the-line. Of course if we're talking about the Dollis Hill rule - then all bets are off...well - except for bets made in the currency of the previous year's World Series - which brings us full circle to the Earls Court/Bank debacle of '48. You see how that all works out? SteveBaker (talk) 03:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't Bank, it was Monument, and as the travolator had yet to be constructed the connection between the drain and the District Line was held to be in nip. Of course everyone was playing MacTaggart's interpretation in those days which tended to bring the whole game to a grinding halt - and usually between Liverpool Street and Bromley-by-Bow. Sam Blacketer (talk) 09:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

The above is a dab link; the direct one is Mornington Crescent (game). You may also care to read about the BBC Radio 4 presenter Humphrey Littleton, who recently died, and British humour, which nonetheless continues. A quick search will show you there are many versions of the MC rules, but my favourite is Ciphergoth's "There are no rules". BrainyBabe (talk) 07:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There is something deeply appropriate about Mornington Crescent being a dab link. What BrainyBabe has neglected to consider is the play in last year's eastern European regional trials of the Wikipedia-variant rules. In a pivotal game - with all of the Jubilee line open above the bar - an inexperienced player from the youthful Estonian FaceBook team attempted to volley across the Georgian Baker Street play - using Green Park then Victoria(!!!) (yes, crazy - I know) and thought thereby to slide a homer into "Mornington Crescent" - he delivers the two fateful words and walks away from the table to cheers from his teammates, thinking he's sealed the championship. But then...the crusty Georgian team-captain merely coughs politely and calmly - at barely more than a whisper - delivers the classic retort: "Mornington Crescent (street)" - and the crowd goes wild! The Estonians were forced to slink home in disgrace - shaking their heads, muttering "^{[citation needed]}, ^{[citation needed]}"...Ah - certainly Mornington Crescent at it's best. SteveBaker (talk) 01:56, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

You'd be better off checking out Humphrey Lyttleton - the Littleton guy seems to have been less popular than the late sainted Humph (and probably less fun at parties). Karenjc 19:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Karenjc! I blush in shame! I see that Samantha is beckoning me towards a strategically placed cupboard, where I shall retire to get out of the limelight. Do knock before you open the door. BrainyBabe (talk) 01:56, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "Rabab"/Rubab

were can i find a "rabab" on the web for $200 or less? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.124.175 (talk) 20:22, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Rhubarb? To grow your own, e.g. here [15]. In a jar try [16] Otherwise try the frozen section at your local farmer's market for a bag of cut stalks or here[17]. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 23:03, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Rebab right? A google search found 3 places selling them for less than US$60. Don't know where you are but eBay might not be a bad idea. 161.222.160.8 (talk) 23:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Or a rubab is something different again.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] What is the standard United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance unit comprised of?

What is the standard United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance unit comprised of?

Specifically, when a recon team is deployed behind enemy lines what is the usual amount of people in any one team and what is the command structure in such a team?

Also what would one expect a team to copnsist of, i.e. mainly privates with a captain or lieutenant as a leader?

What would this team be known as e.g. a squad/unit or fireteam?

Thank you very much 86.168.186.53 (talk) 21:10, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Article on everything man, everything. Check out United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance 161.222.160.8 (talk) 23:14, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] USA World Champions??

Haha! I just can't help laughing. If USA is so "good" at certain sports such as baseball, basketball and hockey (and call themselves World Champions in their own country) - why can't they win things like 2009 World Baseball Classic and numerous other Olympics and World Championship events? Sandman30s (talk) 21:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

You probably want to read this part of the World Series article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

You probably also want to read the Ref Desk header: "The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions... Do not start a debate; please seek an internet forum instead." There may be an interesting query somewhere there - in fact, we are already talking about the World Baseball Classic over here - but starting your question with "Haha!" isn't really the best wat to find it. - Eron^Talk 22:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

(ec)There is a dicussion elsewhere on the desks that will address why the US does not perform well at the WBC, same argumnets apply to the Olympics. For basketball I refer you to Olympic_basketball#Medal_table. For hockey... who ever said Americans were good at hockey? The best just come to play here because the National Hockey League is where the highest level of competition has been. Oh, almost forgot, All-time Olympic Games medal table. 161.222.160.8 (talk) 22:51, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, US athletes were punished by Olympic rules that prohibited professional athletes from competing, as more athletes in the US were disqualified as "professionals" than in just about any other country. StuRat (talk) 23:33, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

The World Baseball Classic doesn't really sample the best baseball players from the US (though it does from most of the other participating countries). This is because Major League franchises that have their star players on $100 million contracts are hardly going to offer them up to play during spring training, and the players themselves are rarely willing to risk the contracts by forcing the issue. If the US team coach really had the freedom to select who he wanted, then its likely that the US would win. Rockpocket 01:12, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Surely this applies to all the other countries whose best players play in the US Major League? Algebraist 01:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't apply to Japan and Korea, by and large, as those countries have very strict contracts which prevent their players from moving to the Major Leagues until many years into their careers, possibly beyond their prime. That's why you never see 24 year old Japanese players in the MLB. It does apply, of course, to Latin countries like the Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico (okay, not a separate country exactly, but treated as such in the WBC), and there's no way to know whether the US is really better than the Dominicans when they play each other in the WBC because of all the players that don't participate. Here's an interesting link along those lines - which show, by the way, that even if the best players did play, the US would still probably not win - except instead of losing to Asian countries, they'd lose to Latin countries. There are scads of amazing players from Latin America who didn't play in the WBC - just start with Albert Pujols, probably the best player in the majors today. zafiroblue05 | Talk 05:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks for the links ;) And to the person who posted the Olympics medals table - that was not what I was asking... Sandman30s (talk) 09:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't what you were asking, but your assumption that the US doesn't "win things like...numerous other Olympics" is wrong, and that poster added the table to show you that. StuRat (talk) 16:00, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] March 25

[edit] Very, very, very simple English.

I had cause today to dig out some pages from our sister site at the Simplified English Wikipedia (http://simple.wikipedia.org). I'm struck by what seems to be an excessive use of the word 'very'. Take, for example, the introduction to: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper - which is one of their "Very Good Articles"...

"A sniper is a person who has been given special training with sniper rifles, a special type of gun. Snipers are able to shoot at targets which are very far away, or are very small, and hit them accurately when looking through a sniper scope. They are also especially trained to be stealthy. Snipers are hard for the enemy to see when they are hidden or using camouflage.

Experienced hunters often share many of the skills that snipers need to know. The two jobs are very similar. The word "sniper" came from hunting "snipe" - birds that were very hard to see and shoot."

I thought at first that it was just this article - but it seems widespread throughout simple-English Wikipedia - and in any case, this is was a front-page featured article! So it should be amongst the best they have to offer. If you had that much redundancy in a regular-English WP:FAC - you'd get ripped to shreds by the reviewers!

Is this some kind of deliberate part of simplified English? I fail to see what it achieves since deleting the word "very" seldom makes any difference whatever to the meaning of a sentence - and one of the stated goals of Simple English is to have shorter sentences.

SteveBaker (talk) 04:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

They want to only use words which everyone knows, which is sure to lead to some repetition, but they could just omit the word, as you suggest, in many cases. There's also another reason to be repetitive, when talking to children, as it helps them to learn those words. I'm not sure if that applies here, though, as I picture the Simplified English Wikipedia aiming at a slightly higher level of English proficiency than this. BTW, I'm curious, why post this here instead of over there ? StuRat (talk) 04:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Then there's Mark Twain's advice (paraphrased): "Whenever you're tempted to use the word 'very', substitute the word 'damn' instead, as in 'damn big', 'damn small', and 'damn pretty'. In the end, your editor will take all those obscenities out, and all will be as it should have been all along.". StuRat (talk) 05:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Mark Twain had the option of using a better word. (But, I'm not disagreeing that there are too many 'very's in that intro. The last two don't seem to contribute anything.) APL (talk) 13:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Their writing guide suggests starting with the Basic English list of 850 words. --JGGardiner (talk) 05:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I would argue the first two uses of very are necessary, the third less and fourth less so. I think one of the problems is the text aims to be simple and therefore there is a need to compensate for the simple words which may not convey your meaning very well and words like very which give emphasis help, but this may have also resulted in an overcompensation. To use an example if you were writing the above in the normal wikipedia you might write "are tiny or at a great distance" and no one would suggest you change it to "are far away, or are small" Nil Einne (talk) 11:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

The word "very" is an integral part of the spoken (colloquial) English; however, in scientific writing, the word "very" is to be avoided. Indeed, it provides no additional information. Statements "Target is located far away" and "target is located very far away" convey the same information exactly. "Target is located 800 m away" would be much better. The beginning of the "accuracy" section in the http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper article is excellent: "Most soldiers get training so that they can shoot a target that is 200 metres (656 ft) to 300 metres (984 ft) away and hit it half of the time.[3] Very well trained soldiers, such as the U.S. Marine Corps, can hit a target that is 400 metres (1,312 ft) to 500 metres (1,640 ft) away half of the time.[9] But a sniper is trained to be able to hit a target over 800 metres (2,625 ft) away almost every single time.[10][11]" - that is a proper writing style for conveying factual information (except for "but" which should have been replaced by "however", and "almost every single time" by "in most trials"). Also, "metre" is UK English; US English is "meter". --Dr Dima (talk) 18:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There is a big difference between "almost every" and "most" (but the word "single" is redundant). --Tango (talk) 18:25, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

How big? --Dr Dima (talk) 19:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

"Most" means "more than 50%", "almost every" is a little less precise, but I'd say 90% is an absolute minimum, 95% or even 99% is more likely. --Tango (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

At least 25 differenciters. Just because you cannot translate the concepts of connotation, context, approximation, emphasis, etc. into scientific values doesn't mean that they do not exist. Numbers are good in their place, but a paper containing only numbers isn't a paper, scientific or otherwise (we call that "data" instead). – 74  00:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

And 'time' is better than 'trial' for simple.wikipedia, I think. Algebraist 18:31, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Or "try" (or "time they try" is probably better English). --Tango (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

A very large number of scholarly sources disagree with your statement that "very" should be avoided in scientific writing. – 74  00:31, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Simple English is more like Simple English for 5 year olds. Instead of being clear, it is condescending. It is an entirely awful endeavor as far as I can tell. It is one thing to encourage straightforward writing that uses only basic grammar and diction, it is something else to write as if everyone has suffered a recent concussion. They also seem to eschew the basic Wiki principle of letting people drill down for more information. Don't know what a "rifle" is? Let them click it! Telling them it is a "special kind of gun" conveys almost no additional information. --140.247.240.69 (talk) 19:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. I'm not a particularly strong French speaker, and I certainly wouldn't recognise the word fusil. On the other hand, I do understand Un fusil est un type particulier d'arme, which helps my understanding considerably. I do agree though that specifics are essential, not least because 200m 'translates' well for Western language speakers. - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 20:38, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] NTSC DVD playable in European movie theatre?

I'm organising a screening of short-films at a small local theatre for my student association. They have the capacity to display movies that are played from a DVD. The location is Netherlands, Europe but one of the DVDs is coming from the USA and is in NTSC format. Is it likely that the proffesional equipment of a movie theatre can deal with this sort of thing? Would they need to flip a switch or would it work automatically? ----Seans Potato Business 17:44, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It's likely but not certain. I suggest you really need to direct this enquiry at them. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Not only do you have to worry about NTSC v. PAL, but also the DVD region code. You should ask the theatre; they might provide the DVD model so you could look up the specifications. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Most newer DVD players can handle different formats. Some machines require you to change a setting or switch. DVD region code bypassing is also now common and legal in most sensible countries. To be sure, you should just try it on the machine beforehand. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] DWI Insurance increase.

My friend recently got pulled over in my car. She was driving I was the passenger and we were both drunk. She got arrested for DWI and my car got towed. My question is in the State of Minnesota is my insurance going to go up? Or hers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.154.193 (talk) 18:32, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Both, probably. I can't speak for how things work in Minnesota, but insurers generally frown on this type of stuff. Tomdobb (talk) 19:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

You've shown you have poor judgement in deciding who to allow to drive your car. That will probably increase your premiums. --Tango (talk) 21:38, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, if this was the UK, to my knowledge there would be no impact on cost of your policy. The offence attaches to the driver (her) not the car or to you. If the police are not taking you to court, I'm not sure I see where the impact on insurance would be. But maybe it's different in the US? --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Good point. The car was towed by the police, not damaged in an accident, so there is nothing connecting the offence to the car. I was thinking about someone crashing your car while they were drunk, which isn't what the OP is talking about. Sorry! --Tango (talk) 23:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Your insurance company will have no idea your car was impounded, and even if they did they wouldn't know why. Your friend's premium will go up if the insurer obtains her driving record at the next renewal. 161.222.160.8 (talk) 21:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I concur with 161. Unless you were cited for an open intoxicant or a similar violation, your presence in the car actually has no bearing on the situation. Your friend is the driver and she is solely responsible for the operation of the vehicle. Your judgment in allowing her to drive the car is irrelevant. (And candidly, that judgment was probably as best it could be under the circumstances, in that YOU didn't drive). Note: I am a licensed agent in Wisconsin and my current job handles insurance in 43 states throughout the country. My employer would never surcharge your policy in the absence of a violation or an accident in which you were not the operator. This is one area in which industry underwriting guidelines are fairly standard (i.e. underwriting action follows the driver, not the vehicle). Even if your friend had crashed the car, for MOST companies, your rates would not be affected, as you were not the operator.Brewfangrb (talk) 08:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Help Please

How do you put pictures on your user page? <(^_^)> Pokegeek42 (talk) 19:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Have a look here[18] and see if it helps. Richard Avery (talk) 20:25, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Be careful about this, however (copied from WP:UP):

Do not include non-free images (copyrighted images lacking a free content license) on your user page or on any subpage thereof (this is official policy and the usual wide user page latitude does not apply, see Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria for details). Non-free images found on a user page (including user talk pages) will be removed (preferably by replacing it with a link to the image) from that page without warning (and, if not used in a Wikipedia article, deleted entirely). There is broad consensus that you should not have any image on your userpage that would bring the project into disrepute (per Jimbo Wales), and you may be asked to remove such images.

~EdGl ★ 00:03, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

And do remember that Wikipedia isn't like MySpace or FaceBook: playing around with your userpage is fine, but try not to make that sort of thing all you do! There's lots of stuff to be written, formatted and improved in the encyclopedia, which is fun too.

Oh, and consider this the obligatory "careful what personal stuff you put online" warning. Basically, particularly at your age, don't put any personal pictures or details up. I'm sure you knew that, but the gods of the internet make me say it :P 79.66.127.79 (talk) 01:11, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Why are stores still selling Pentiums?

Why are tech stores such as BestBuy still selling Intel Pentium machines? Were those not superseeded by Intel's Core line of processors years ago? Acceptable (talk) 20:41, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Pentium D only finished production last August. As there is now a replacement chip for all its market niches (either a Core2 or a Xeon) I'd expect anyone left with a stock of Pentium D systems will be selling them off at a discount to clear. Dog Day Today (talk) 21:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Manga

Has anyone ever heard of a manga series called "He Is My Master"? <(^_^)> Pokegeek42 (talk) 21:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I hadn't. But we have an article on it He Is My Master --JGGardiner (talk) 22:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] How can a lonesome fella like me find a BOYFRIEND-FREE Girl?

I needed to attract a BOYFRIEND-FREE Girl, by any means necessary, with limited resources. I was afraid to even say Hi to any girl, so I made a simple sign that stated, "I am a (my age then)-Year Old, Single Male, seeking an 18-(my age then)-Year Old, Single Female Companion." I had the sign placed next to me, with an arrow pointing at me, and of course, I stood, or sat, next to the sign. Not only was I not able to attract any girls, but some Bullies (Men and Old Woman) did not approve my method of attraction. Also, I feel that they perceived me as a sweet, weak person, which I was then, but I am much, much saltier now.--Pie merchant (talk) 22:58, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Try a dating agency. Or a Personal advertisement in a newspaper. --Tango (talk) 23:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Dating agency? Newspaper? Contemporize, man! Here in the future we use online dating services and classified sites like Craigslist. Tomdobb (talk) 23:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Depends what you intend to do with her. Kittybrewster ☎ 00:40, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Sign up for a class in flower arrangement, macramé, embroidery, or some other pursuit favored by people of the female persuasion. Alternatively, ask your barber to make you look like Johnny Depp. Better, get yourself to look like Johnny Depp and then take a class in flower arrangement or whatever. -- Hoary (talk) 00:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I've never really understood why he's thought to be really good looking by women, or at least supposedly is.--Pie merchant (talk) 01:00, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Go to lots of parties and talk to lots of people?? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:41, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Go to funerals for young men. I find that the young woman who cries the most is usually available. :-) StuRat (talk) 05:31, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Get a life. I've found that it's great to just become an interesting person with a fun hobby. I like photography and travel, I hitch-hiked, and to top it off I shaved my head, and that was a great combination. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

And it's true, you don't really need to be handsome. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, right. You need to be confident while talking to girls. Remember that girls are also looking for guys all the time and girls like confident guys. Get a hobby like some musical instrument, dancing, swimming (Swimming Pool can be a great place to start casual chat, sometimes better than bars and parties, but it would be helpful to check out your shape first). Take part in activities involving both sexes. Talk to lots of people (including guys). According to my experience, girls prefer guys with better social outreach, in terms of friends and contacts etc, but this is nothing strict. Go to parties or clubs. Being handsome although is a bonus, but it is not the only deciding factor. At the end, be sensible, interesting person and act smart (not over the top, be natural). I would recommend to try out the girls whom you see in your real life rather than trying out the social networking sites or online dating sites. It is better in terms of getting experience and having fun (and it works). You might get one or two rejections but not always. Eventually you will get a girl too. Good Luck. - DSachan (talk) 08:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Logic problem

May be on the wrong desk.

• I have a precious thing which I want to send to Toby. I have the perfect box for the job. It is the only lockable box I have. To fasten it, there is a big strong locking ring to which I can attach padlocks. I have a padlock that fits it perfectly. Toby does not have a key to my padlock. I have only one key and am not prepared to send it to Toby or to get it copied. How can I securely get the thing to Toby using my box and padlock? Kittybrewster ☎ 23:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Put the thing in the box, then padlock it. Keeping the key post the box to toby. Toby buys a padlock of his own, attached that padlock too. Keeping his key, he posts the box back to you. You unlock your padlock and remove it, leaving Toby's (and so the box is still secure). Then you post the box back to Toby again, and on receipt he unlocks his padlock and retrieves the thing. Dog Day Today (talk) 23:27, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

This is the essence of the Three-pass protocol. Algebraist 23:31, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Would not the Three-pass protocol article protocol benefit from the excellent lay-person's explanation above? --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably. It's currently sitting at Public-key cryptography#A postal analogy for some reason. Algebraist 23:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

This relies on the ring being able to accommodate multiple locks concurrently; such a scheme allows order independent addition and removal of locks, as in the above case (a logical AND function); if you can chain one padlock with another that builds an order independent OR function. If you can have boxes within boxes (where inner boxes can't be touched unless the outer one is unlocked) than you get order dependent operation. Combining these allows you to do all kinds of fun things, wherein the arrangement of locks and boxes (and to whom you give which keys) lets you control the grouping and order of people that can do things: you can make people cooperate, do operations in order, or agree (or veto) things. Dog Day Today (talk) 23:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I like it. Now all the postman can do is steal the box and smash it open. Kittybrewster ☎ 23:48, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There is the risk of a man in the middle attack, whereby the postman never gives the box to Toby, but returns it to you with the postman's lock on it. You really need a "secure side channel"- e.g. Toby confirms by phone when he receives the box the first time, and if you receive the box back and Toby hasn't received it, then that can't be Toby's lock. Dog Day Today (talk) 00:05, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

As long as you have that secure channel, you can discourage the postman. Buy 20 (airtight) boxes, 20 locks and keys, and 19 fragile vials of flesh eating bacteria. Number each box, and put the precious thing in one box and the bacteria in all the others. On each write a note to the effect that there is a 95% chance that this box contains flesh eating bacteria. Then do the above 3-part exchange with Toby as before. When he receives the boxes the 2nd time, you tell him which is safe (over the secure channel) and he can open it safely. The dishonest postman has to guess, and he has a 95% chance of guessing wrong and being flesh-eaten. Dog Day Today (talk) 00:11, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I like it. Where do I get the vials? Kittybrewster ☎ 00:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

From Google, naturally. A nice feature of the methods Dog Day Today outlines is that the 'secure side channel' doesn't actually have to be secure against the postman listening in, just against him tampering with the messages (i.e. sending a fake message from Toby saying he's received the box, or a fake message to Toby to make him open the wrong box and get bacteriaed). Algebraist 00:55, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

The three pass approach seems unnecessarily complicated. Why can't the guy simply ship his padlock to you (in an open state) - you lock it onto the box and ship box and padlock back to your friend who has the key and unlocks it. Your padlock is superfluous - there is no question of whether both padlocks will fit onto the hasp - and you only have to risk shipping the precious thing once instead of three times. You might argue that I'm violating the terms of the question (which says that the thing must be shipped "using my box and padlock") - but the third step in the previously suggested solution also requires the third shipping of the box to be done without your padlock. SteveBaker (talk) 01:12, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Which would be the analogy for Public-key cryptography, if I'm not mistaken. Under that protocol the receiver sends the sender a method of encrypting the data (locking the padlock) in such a way that it can only be opened by the receiver's key. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, SteveBaker's idea is MUCH better, in my opinion. My question is how does either of these methods prevent the postal carrier (or any other man-in-the-middle who may intercept the box) from cutting the lock or stealing the box outright? Presumably, locking the box is simply a theft-deterrent, no? Regardless of the effort taken to secure the box from being opened, it's impossible to ensure it arrives safely and unmolested--aside from physically taking the box to Toby yourself.Brewfangrb (talk) 08:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] March 26