Sacha Gervasi: The Story of Anvil (A Tale of Two Metalheads)
By Nicole Powers
Mar 30, 2009
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
That first paragraph may open the Charles Dickens' novel A Tale of Two Cities, but it could just as easily serve as an introduction to The Anvil Story, which began in 1973 when two friends, Steve "Lips" Kudlow and Robb "Geza" Reiner, solemnly pledged "to rock together forever." They were fourteen years old at the time. Less than a decade on it looked like the duo's dream of becoming heavy metal gods was about to come true. Their band Anvil was on the precipice of superstardom. Their 1982 album Metal On Metal served as the blueprint for a new fast and furious brand of heaviness called speed metal, and by the summer of '84 they were touring the world with such luminaries as The Scorpions, Bon Jovi and Whitesnake.
Anvil's music and larger-than-life live shows inspired a generation of bands such as Metallica, Guns N' Roses and Anthrax. But while Anvil fanned the flames of others, their own fire died down. When the world turned its back on Anvil, they returned to the bosom of their families back in Toronto and eventually got day jobs. But Lips and Robb never broke their oath. They continued to rock despite the fact that their gigs were relegated to the weddings, funerals and Bar-Mitzvahs circuit. By 2004, Anvil had released a total of twelve albums, many into the darkness of total oblivion.
Out of that pitch-black void came a phone call from the UK’s number one Anvil fan, Sacha “Teabag” Gervasi. Now a Hollywood writer and director, with a list of credits that includes The Big Tease and The Terminal, Gervasi decided to document the band’s story of faith in the face of monumental failure. With his camera crew in tow, Gervasi followed Lips and Robb as they embarked on a world tour that was epic in its lack of success, and captured the emotional roller-coaster ride that was the recording of their new album -- which almost lead to the band’s ultimate demise.
Though Anvil’s This Is Thirteen CD proved to be spectacularly deficient in the sales department when it was first released, like everything else associated with Anvil right now, it’s getting a new lease of life thanks to the loud buzz of feedback emitted by the release of Gervasi’s film. As the credits on Anvil: The Story of Anvil roll, Robb and Lipps are getting the opportunity to rock like never before.
SuicideGirls caught up with Gervasi to find out the score.
NP:
So I guess I should start at the very beginning. How did you first come in contact with Anvil?
SG:
I met them in 1982, September 21st, at The Marquee Club in London. I was a huge fan of the band. I'd seen Sounds magazine in April of '82 and Lips, the singer of Anvil, was on the cover. He had a chainsaw and was wearing leather and brandishing a dildo between his teeth, and it was such an outrageous image. Then I heard the album, Metal On Metal, which was phenomenal.
NP:
What was memorable about the band when you first saw them live?
SG:
They were hilarious, they were really heavy and they were really funny. You had this guy coming on stage in a bondage harness playing his guitar with a dildo, I mean that's what he did, that was his shtick. During the song "Mothra" he would turn it on and play it against his strings and against the electric pickup so that it would make this crazy sound, and he would change the speed, and he'd do this crazy distorted feedback. It was mental!
But they were really, really good. The drummer was the most incredible drummer in history, and they were really tight. They were just really good, fast and furious. I think what was different about them was they were playing that speed metal sound before Metallica or Anthrax. Anthrax started out as an Anvil cover band so that just shows you the influence that they had. Anvil was the band from '82 to '83.
But they were really, really good. The drummer was the most incredible drummer in history, and they were really tight. They were just really good, fast and furious. I think what was different about them was they were playing that speed metal sound before Metallica or Anthrax. Anthrax started out as an Anvil cover band so that just shows you the influence that they had. Anvil was the band from '82 to '83.
NP:
And you ended up becoming their roadie. How did that come about?
SG:
I met them that night at the Marquee in September of '82. I introduced myself as England's number one Anvil fan. I didn't know any others -- I thought I must be the number one fan. I think they were so charmed by my enthusiasm for the band that they liked me and I liked them.
Basically, they'd never been to London and they asked me to show them around. So the next day, I took them to Carnaby Street, Westminster Abbey, the Houses of Parliament. Then, I had family in Canada, they were from Toronto, and they said come visit us. So I had my school holidays the following year and they asked me to come out on the road with them. So I ran away from home to go on the road with Anvil, which my parents were not very happy about, certainly my mum, but my dad covered for me, which was cool.
Basically, they'd never been to London and they asked me to show them around. So the next day, I took them to Carnaby Street, Westminster Abbey, the Houses of Parliament. Then, I had family in Canada, they were from Toronto, and they said come visit us. So I had my school holidays the following year and they asked me to come out on the road with them. So I ran away from home to go on the road with Anvil, which my parents were not very happy about, certainly my mum, but my dad covered for me, which was cool.
NP:
And they gave you an official Anvil name?
SG:
Teabag.
NP:
But eventually you kind of drifted apart….
SG:
I went on tour with them in '82, '84 and '85, and then I just got into different types of music. I got into Iggy Pop and David Bowie and all that kind of stuff...and then I just lost touch with them for twenty years.
NP:
So you experienced their heyday -- or rather their first heyday?
SG:
I did. Their real heyday. But now they're having an even better heyday.
NP:
What incidents back in the day do you wish you'd had a camera crew there for?
SG:
Everything. The whole Backwaxed Tour in 1984. It was one of the most outrageous human experiences ever.
NP:
Give me some specific scenes?
SG:
Just groupies and girls lining up to look after the band. There were just scenes with various members of the band...because we didn't have any money right, so we all went around in this van and shared a hotel room. I would be sleeping at the foot of the beds of these guys. At one point there were two members of the band, I won't say who they were, who both had girls in the room. One of them called over to me and said, "Hey Teabag! You should check this out man, you might learn a thing or two." I ended up sleeping in the van because I couldn't take it. They were just taunting me.
When the band played the Metal 4 Africa concert, one of the members of the band The Scorpions said, "Who is Africa?" They thought it was a person. The whole idea of the metal community getting together to do a charity show for a continent that someone in one of the bands didn't actually know was a continent, it was insane. That was in Albany, New York. The funny thing was not many people actually knew what they were doing there, they were just all really high...they were doing it because everyone was doing it.
So constant madness all the time. I mean the original road crew was me, Jethro, Vegas, Spider and Brick, I mean that tells you everything. So yeah, it was mental, it was crazy, I mean I shouldn't really have been exposed to it, but I was determined.
When the band played the Metal 4 Africa concert, one of the members of the band The Scorpions said, "Who is Africa?" They thought it was a person. The whole idea of the metal community getting together to do a charity show for a continent that someone in one of the bands didn't actually know was a continent, it was insane. That was in Albany, New York. The funny thing was not many people actually knew what they were doing there, they were just all really high...they were doing it because everyone was doing it.
So constant madness all the time. I mean the original road crew was me, Jethro, Vegas, Spider and Brick, I mean that tells you everything. So yeah, it was mental, it was crazy, I mean I shouldn't really have been exposed to it, but I was determined.
NP:
What lessons did you take away from your time on the road with the band?
SG:
I don't know if I took any lessons, I certainly had to get a lot of therapy. I just had a great time. I lived a very unusual life. When I got back from that first tour, most of the kids had been away on like cycling holidays in Normandy with their family, and there I was, I've got my first blow job in the parking lot of a Quebec hockey arena from a French speaking bakery manager called Valerie who wore tangerine hot pants. I'd had a really good summer and they hadn't, so I think the one thing I learnt was always take a risk. I was just unafraid.
NP:
The story of Anvil is a fable about following your dreams. Back then, when you drifted away from Anvil, what dreams were you pursuing?
SG:
I think I wanted to be a musician. I was very inspired by Robb Reiner, so I spent a lot of time thinking I'll be a drummer. And I did that for a while. I played in a few bands, and was signed in a couple of bands.
It was my dream and it wasn't. I always wanted to be a rocker, but then at a certain point I realized that I wasn't Robb Reiner. Robb Reiner's an amazing player, and I realized that I didn't want to spend ten years focusing everything about myself on being that. I wasn't so passionate about it and I realized that -- and that was a big breakthrough to me. So my dream changed.
It was my dream and it wasn't. I always wanted to be a rocker, but then at a certain point I realized that I wasn't Robb Reiner. Robb Reiner's an amazing player, and I realized that I didn't want to spend ten years focusing everything about myself on being that. I wasn't so passionate about it and I realized that -- and that was a big breakthrough to me. So my dream changed.
NP:
How old were you when the reality of your situation hit you?
SG:
Probably in my late teens, early twenties. But I played with bands, one of whom subsequently became a huge band. I played lots of big shows and went on tours of Italy and got mobbed, and went through all that. It was great, but it wasn't really me.
NP:
That band was obviously Bush, and had you stuck around...
SG:
Well I left the band. I don't regret ever leaving the band. It was a very specific situation, because Gavin [Rossdale], the singer, I've known since I was five years old. It was really weird having to be in a band where you're taking orders from someone you were in playschool with.
NP:
But had you stayed with Bush, you would still have been in the position Anvil are in right now.
SG:
Well look at the people who are in Bush now, I don't know what they're doing but I certainly wouldn't be on the path I'm on, so I'm pretty grateful. I mean, I had the experience. I was the first drummer ever in the band, and I played on all the songs that subsequently became huge hits that were on the first album, so I got to taste the golden age.
I remember seeing Gavin and them play the Forum at the height of their success in the mid-nineties and that was pretty weird because I think I'd come by bus. I was at UCLA Film School, I didn't have a car, I didn't have any money, and the band I'd been in no more than two years before was one of the biggest bands in America. So it was pretty weird, but it was also hilarious - I mean that's my life.
I remember seeing Gavin and them play the Forum at the height of their success in the mid-nineties and that was pretty weird because I think I'd come by bus. I was at UCLA Film School, I didn't have a car, I didn't have any money, and the band I'd been in no more than two years before was one of the biggest bands in America. So it was pretty weird, but it was also hilarious - I mean that's my life.
NP:
And you ended up writing The Terminal which was directed by Steven Spielberg.
SG:
I've been lucky. I've worked with everyone from Al Pacino to Keanu Reeves -- Tom Hanks several times.
NP:
What prompted you to get back in touch with Anvil?
SG:
I'd finished working with Steven and Tom on The Terminal, and I guess, in one sense, I'd achieved a certain dream. Growing up in London and looking at Spielberg and then sitting on the set with him and having him direct stuff that I'd done, it was a certain end point of a journey. So it was about beginning something new I guess.
I'd always wanted to direct, and I'd always remembered that Bruce Robinson had told me, who wrote and directed Withnail And I, which was the film that got me writing. He always said to me, "You gotta direct something really personal that no one else could do." So I think in the back of my mind I was thinking abut that. Separately to that, I was thinking about being fifteen again for whatever reason, and then I remembered Anvil, and then I went online and discovered that they'd never quit.
I emailed Lips, I got his number, I called him, and within two weeks he was out in LA and the whole thing happened.
I'd always wanted to direct, and I'd always remembered that Bruce Robinson had told me, who wrote and directed Withnail And I, which was the film that got me writing. He always said to me, "You gotta direct something really personal that no one else could do." So I think in the back of my mind I was thinking abut that. Separately to that, I was thinking about being fifteen again for whatever reason, and then I remembered Anvil, and then I went online and discovered that they'd never quit.
I emailed Lips, I got his number, I called him, and within two weeks he was out in LA and the whole thing happened.
NP:
I love the quote from Lips' first email to you, when he said, "I thought you'd either died or become a lawyer."
SG:
And I went to law school, and I think I left because I had a drug overdose, so I did both. Whatever, isn't that how you meant to do law school?
NP:
So you flew Lips out to LA..
SG:
But I flew him out just to hang out...I took him to my buddy Steve Zailllian who's the guy who introduced me to Steven Spielberg, he wrote Schindler's List, amongst many other things, and won the Oscar. I remember being at Steve's house being in his kitchen looking at Lips through the window. Lips was explaining speed metal to Steve's wife Elizabeth, and I remember thinking, "This is so crazy."
I just turned to Steve and I said, "He just hasn't quit. He really believes he's going to make it." I thought on the one hand that's so sad, but on another hand it's not at all -- it's really inspiring. So I think that's where that moment for the film was born...so within two months we were shooting.
I just turned to Steve and I said, "He just hasn't quit. He really believes he's going to make it." I thought on the one hand that's so sad, but on another hand it's not at all -- it's really inspiring. So I think that's where that moment for the film was born...so within two months we were shooting.
NP:
So you had this epiphany while Lips was in the garden. How did you translate the idea into action?
SG:
They were having a tour come up in November, because they met this crazy woman Tiziana [Arrigoni] in the summer, so I thought, "Fuck man. I've got to do this now."
NP:
What kind of budget did you do it for?
SG:
I can never discuss that publicly, but it was not cheap. For a movie it was nothing, but it was significant. I paid for the whole thing myself. I didn't have time to go to a financier...So I just decided to break the prime, cardinal rule of film making...
I didn't really care. I knew if would be an amazing film. I just felt it. And I think that the film is actually an amazing film. I think it lives up to what I thought it would be. I really feel good about it.
I didn't really care. I knew if would be an amazing film. I just felt it. And I think that the film is actually an amazing film. I think it lives up to what I thought it would be. I really feel good about it.
NP:
So you had very little time, and the tour's coming up, you've got a crew of how many?
SG:
Probably about eight of us. By the end of November '05 we were in Transylvania, or wherever the hell we were, Munich -- it was mental!
NP:
That tour went from triumph to defeat to triumph -- there's the best of gigs and the worst gigs.
SG:
That's the Anvil story. It's the whole thing, the highs and the lows. It was so extreme.
NP:
Backstage at the heavy metal festival, the way some of the guys from the other bands treated and snubbed Anvil, it was disgusting.
SG:
Right. Yeah.
NP:
And Anvil are so not that. I mean they were nice to you as a fifteen year old fan that they could have so easily brushed off.
SG:
Totally.
NP:
What's happened now is karma for not having that asshole attitude.
SG:
Correct, absolutely, totally. Because they really are just awesome people.
NP:
And the way the industry treated them too. I mean the footage you show of them dropping CDs off at record companies, where everyone's supposed to love music, and they couldn't have been less interested. Didn't it just make you cringe?
SG:
It's the reality. That's how it is. A lot of people have said to us, "Thank god someone's shown how it actually is." This is a story about millions of bands, not just Anvil, so I think that people are surprised, shocked, saddened and relieved to see the real story about how it is. Because this is how it really is for most musicians who attempt to make a go of it. It's uncomfortable for people because they only see the one percent who are on MTV and the multi-platinum selling artists, but the reality is most musicians don't make it, and most musicians lives are this constant yearning for something which they can never get.
NP:
How long were you actually with the band?
SG:
We shot them over two years. We shot them every couple of months. Sometimes we'd be with them for three weeks, sometimes for two days. We had a crew in Toronto so whenever something would happen Lips would pick up the phone and call me and I would call my crew, and they were like 20 minutes away.
NP:
So none of the key moments are reenactments?
SG:
A couple of shots we had to because we just couldn't be there, but most of it is as it is.
NP:
The interviews with the family, some of those are particularly heartbreaking?
SG:
I think what was interesting to me was having a stereotype of heavy metal guys who are funny, and then just completely smashing it...The idea was to encourage the stereotype, at the beginning it's like Spinal Tap, and then just blow people's minds and take it to a totally different place. And the families were a part of that because you realize, you may think these guys are funny, but what's the difference? Hair? The way they dress? You know, they're just human beings. So I think I was just taking a very human approach. People judge people so quickly...
The truth is they had a huge dream that nearly happened but didn't quite, and they've been living with the consequence of that for a long time. But I knew, ironically, by filming all of it, that if it was done right, that something good would happen with the band. That's the best part, what the film has done for the band is just unreal.
The truth is they had a huge dream that nearly happened but didn't quite, and they've been living with the consequence of that for a long time. But I knew, ironically, by filming all of it, that if it was done right, that something good would happen with the band. That's the best part, what the film has done for the band is just unreal.
NP:
There were some very candid moments with the family on camera that you chose to keep in the movie, like when his sister is saying Anvil are "a joke." Were you torn as to whether you should include such quotes because of the pain they might inflict?
SG:
When their own families are saying they're losers, you really root for them then. It's interesting how that interview came about because Troy, Robb's sister came to us and said, "I'll tell you the truth of how it is." She came to find us to do that interview. She went on camera in a real mood, but in the end it works for the film. It just make the ending that much sweeter when you realize the pressure's not just that their album got turned down, but the wives going, "Hey guys, we need to start getting real here and get some money." And Troy's going, "And by the way, you guys are fucking losers. It's over." You know, you really want them to succeed more and more.
NP:
Obviously there's the comparison to Spinal Tap, and there's the scene in the movie where Lips turns his amp up to eleven.
SG:
Well how could you avoid it. We knew from the beginning that it was impossible to make a movie that was about an aging rock band who had a moment of glory they were trying to recapture. The drummer's called Robb Reiner, they wrote a song about the Spanish Inquisition called "Thumb Hang." It was going to be compared to Spinal Tap anyway, favorably or not, but certainly compared to it. So we decided to embrace it. We're going to make it work for us. So we sort of used it as a Trojan horse in a way because the audience thinks for the first twenty minutes, "Oh my god! This is Spinal Tap." Then the films changes and becomes something very different. It never would have been able to happen had we not created an anticipation -- the audience is anticipating a specific comedic experience...
NP:
Right, you go in expecting to laugh at them, and you end up rooting for them.
SG:
Correct. So that's why Spinal Tap helped us.
NP:
Spinal Tap are going on tour this year. Anvil and Spinal Tap would be the best double bill.
SG:
I really hope that we can get them together. Anvil's being called the real Spinal Tap.
NP:
That would be the most amazing double bill.
SG:
I can't even imagine! People would go crazy for that. That would be so meta, it would be just insane.
NP:
But I know Robb was a little uncomfortable with the comparisons.
SG:
Robb was, but then he understands. Look, he understands what I'm doing. All he cares about is the fact that at the end of the movie everyone loves Anvil and wants to buy their record or their T-Shirt.
NP:
I guess they had such trust in you as a friend.
SG:
That's right. I did exactly what I said I would do and more. I think they didn't really realize how good the film would be. I don't think I did. But you know people's reactions have been extraordinary. I mean you see everyday, if you look up the press, it's unbelievable.
NP:
There's a happy ending in the film...
SG:
But the happier ending is really after the film.
NP:
What's happened since the film premiered at Sundance in 2008?
SG:
It debuted at Sundance and got the first standing ovation on the first screening. Every screening was a standing ovation, they added more screenings -- it was unbelievable.
It's a real interesting thing, whenever you do something from the heart, that's real, from the right place, which is one of the reasons I did the movie, 'cause I wanted help my friends. You feel that in the film. You feel the love of the filmmakers towards the subject. And that's why people are responding, because they feel the love basically.
It's a real interesting thing, whenever you do something from the heart, that's real, from the right place, which is one of the reasons I did the movie, 'cause I wanted help my friends. You feel that in the film. You feel the love of the filmmakers towards the subject. And that's why people are responding, because they feel the love basically.
NP:
And in England you had Keanu Reeves turn up to the premiere?
SG:
Yes. And Sarah Brown.
NP:
The wife of the Prime Minister! How did that come about?
SG:
Well Sean Macaulay is a really good friend of mine, and he was our creative consultant. I brought him in to just look at the film and be an objective pair of eyes. So Sarah really came because her brother was involved.
Funny story about that was, Downing Street on the day of the premiere tried to stop her going because the head of PR, the spin doctor, went on the website and saw that Sarah was going to go to the Anvil premiere then came across this photo of Lips naked with a guitar, and said, "Sarah, this is going to be a PR disaster." She basically just went, and it worked fantastic. Sarah was just fiercely supportive of her brother. So Sarah's been great, Keanu's a friend of mine. I've worked with him, and he basically loves the movie. And he's Canadian so he knew about them.
Funny story about that was, Downing Street on the day of the premiere tried to stop her going because the head of PR, the spin doctor, went on the website and saw that Sarah was going to go to the Anvil premiere then came across this photo of Lips naked with a guitar, and said, "Sarah, this is going to be a PR disaster." She basically just went, and it worked fantastic. Sarah was just fiercely supportive of her brother. So Sarah's been great, Keanu's a friend of mine. I've worked with him, and he basically loves the movie. And he's Canadian so he knew about them.
NP:
He was a totally sweetheart at the London premiere, he was singing autographs for ages.
SG:
He did the press line for us. He's going to do the press line at the US premiere on April 7th as well at The Egyptian. I just think people have really rallied to the cause. We have all these great fans, like Pearl Jam who love it.
NP:
How did you get in contact with them?
SG:
They called us. They heard about the film and called us and said, "Can we have it for our tour bus." So we gave it to them. There are multiple bands like that. So many artists, everyone from Madonna to Trent Reznor to David Byrne of the Talking Heads -- he's a huge Anvil fan. He came to our show in August and was head-banging to Anvil. I was standing next to him. Every musician feels the story.
NP:
And I understand there's major label interest?
SG:
Oh yeah. There's tons of record companies chasing the band now. I think they think it's funny. Anvil, if one thing, are not without a huge sense of humor. They know it's hilarious. They're very cool about it. They're not taking it all too seriously. The truth is, of course, everyone's so reactive, but yeah, major labels are chasing them. But they have a great manager now, this guy Rick Sales who manages Slayer and Bullet For My Valentine and Mastodon, and he is just awesome.
NP:
And there's talk of a big tour?
SG:
It's all being put together. A lot of it is all going to happen over the summer. The band's going to play Download for the first time. Finally the band, after 27 years, is playing to 60,000 people again.
NP:
One of the things that I noticed in the subsequent print interviews is that Anvil seem to be more aware of the reality gap now than they were at the time the film was shot. I think maybe that's part of the process of having the mirror held up to them.
SG:
I think that's totally true. The reason I think the film works is because it is so authentic and innocent, and it really captures them as they were. I think now they have a bit more perspective because they've seen how people react to it.
When I told Robb I wanted to make a movie, he said, "Why would anyone want to make a movie about us? No one cares about Anvil" I said, "Because I think it's really a story about a friendship that has not been broken." It's about persistence, and perseverance and really loving your dream. He wasn't conscious of that. That's what makes, in my opinion, them so heroic is they weren't really trying to be. They were just doing what they did.
When I told Robb I wanted to make a movie, he said, "Why would anyone want to make a movie about us? No one cares about Anvil" I said, "Because I think it's really a story about a friendship that has not been broken." It's about persistence, and perseverance and really loving your dream. He wasn't conscious of that. That's what makes, in my opinion, them so heroic is they weren't really trying to be. They were just doing what they did.
NP:
I love the way one NME journalist talks about how the movie contains the "most beautiful, touching love scene you will see in the cinema this year". The scene where Lips talks about how if things get really bad he can always just go and walk off a cliff, and Robb says, "No you couldn't, because I would stop you."
SG:
It's the real deal. That's the real stuff. It doesn't happen that often, that you get that stuff, you know.
NP:
True friendship...
SG:
Since they were fourteen, and here they are. How many people mean what they say when they're fourteen? It's one of those movies you watch over and over again. People seem to get new things out of it each time they see it because it's honest. It's not avoiding pain, it's saying life is incredibly fucking ridiculous, incredibly stupid, incredibly tragic, incredibly uplifting, incredibly funny, it's bitterly unfair and monumentally triumphant. It's all of these things together, and I think people recognize the truth of it. It's not trying to be anything. It just is what it is.
Anvil will play live with SG's Food Coma columnist Scott Ian (of Anthrax) at the film's official US premiere at The Egyptian Theater in Hollywood, CA on Tuesday, April 7th. Anvil: The Story of Anvil opens in the US on Friday, April 10. Catch Anvil live and see the film on the seven-city Anvil Experience tour, which kicks off on April 6. Go to AnvilMovie.com for more info.
Anvil will play live with SG's Food Coma columnist Scott Ian (of Anthrax) at the film's official US premiere at The Egyptian Theater in Hollywood, CA on Tuesday, April 7th. Anvil: The Story of Anvil opens in the US on Friday, April 10. Catch Anvil live and see the film on the seven-city Anvil Experience tour, which kicks off on April 6. Go to AnvilMovie.com for more info.
loading your activity feed...