The Large Hadron Collider bashed protons together for the first time on Monday, inaugurating a new era in the quest to uncover nature's deepest secrets.
Housed in a 27-kilometre circular underground tunnel near Geneva, Switzerland, the LHC is the world's most powerful particle accelerator, designed to collide protons together at unprecedented energies.
It was on the verge of its first proton collisions in September 2008 when a faulty electrical connection triggered an explosion of helium used to cool the machine. This caused a 14-month delay while CERN repaired the damage and installed safety features to prevent a repeat of the accident.
But physicists started whipping protons around the machine again on Friday.
Now, at long last, CERN is heralding the first collisions inside the machine. Two beams of protons travelling at nearly the speed of light crashed together on Monday at 1322 GMT inside the ATLAS detector, one of the giant measuring devices the LHC will use to probe shrapnel from the collisions, according to CERN's announcement. Further collisions occurred inside the LHC's CMS and LHCb detectors.
"This is great news, the start of a fantastic era of physics – and hopefully discoveries – after 20 years' work by the international community to build a machine and detectors of unprecedented complexity and performance," said Fabiola Gianotti, a spokesperson for the ATLAS detector project.
The protons collided with 900 billion electron volts of energy (900 GeV), with 450 GeV supplied by each beam. The LHC is designed to allow collisions at much higher energies – all the way up to 14,000 GeV (14 TeV), or 7 TeV per beam.
World record
Before a brief shutdown of the LHC for Christmas, CERN hopes to boost the energy to 1.2 TeV per beam – exceeding the world's current top collision energies of 1 TeV per beam at the Tevatron accelerator in Batavia, Illinois.
In early 2010, physicists will attempt to ramp up the energy to 3.5 TeV per beam, collect data for a few months at that energy, then push towards 5 TeV per beam in the second half of the year.
The LHC has the potential to make new discoveries even before it ramps up to its highest energies, Gianotti said in a CERN press conference on Monday. "[At] an energy of 3.5 TeV per beam, we do have a discovery potential which goes beyond the present detectors, so we may discover something new already next year," she said.
Supersymmetric dark matter
Dark matter particles predicted by supersymmetry – a theory that proposes hidden connections between matter particles and particles that transmit forces – might be an early discovery of the LHC, depending on how much the particles weigh, said CERN director-general Rolf Heuer. "If nature has really realised dark matter in the form of supersymmetric low-mass particles, then this will be the first thing they can discover," he said.
If the supersymmetric particles are heavier or do not exist, then the LHC's first discovery might be a sighting of the Higgs boson, which is thought to endow other particles with mass and would complete the so-called standard model of physics.
Physicists are already designing successors to the LHC that could reach even higher energies, such as the Super Large Hadron Collider.
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Have your say
Hey this cant be right we are all still here!
Collisions of this energy level have been done before...when it ramps up to the 1.2TeV mark we will be in new territory.
I wish I was in the CERN legal department.
"so, how will we cope with the fallout if all those morons wer actually on to something?"
"Who cares? It's not like they will be around to sue us! Now, throw me some more bubbly would you?"
Take note protesters: There is nothing more you can do, the particles will collide at high energies in the neer future, and if the actual experts in the field were wrong, it won't matter any more, because you won't exist to say "I told you so"
To quote Ben:
"I wish I was in the CERN legal department.
...so, how will we cope with the fallout if all those morons were actually on to something?"
Yea, they will discover a new particle alright, the Moron! :^))
That yet-to-be discovered particle causes some people to make moronic comments on the LHC or revere folks like Sarah Palin.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously, these scientists are good and very intelligent folks. You cannot apply common "common sense" to what they are trying to piece together and discover with the LHC. No worries from me, I will set back in my armchair and prepare to be amazed over the next several years. You have to appreciate where we were and where we might be going with this fantastic machine and the attempts to peel back the secrets of the cosmos, one stubborn layer at a time.
If aliens are up there watching, they would nod (or something similar in effect) their approval. If God is watching, his thoughts might be "At long last, using the minds I gave thou!" And yes, I can speak for God.
Let's see what we have learned by Dec 21st, 2012. If I was the head guy at LHC, I would schedule the "ultimate" 14TeV collision for that date - just because. Let's break some of those crazy beliefs down. There would be riots in the streets! People jumping out of windows!
Then it will be Dec 22nd, just another day.
I'll be LMAO, that's for sure.
"That yet-to-be discovered particle causes some people to make moronic comments on the LHC or revere folks like Sarah Palin." - RayGun
That Palin woman is super sexy sexy with her Librarian looks and chastity belt werarin old transsexual school marm looks.
And those glasses --- Wow they make my heart to flutter.
And smardt too.. She is much smarter than the average Merikan, just look at her book sales.
Just wait 'til they turn it up to the rock'n'roll setting (where the pot. dial reads 12) !
Colonel Sandurz: Prepare the LHC for 14 TeV.
Dark Helmet: No, no, no, 14 TeV is too slow.
Colonel Sandurz: 14 TeV, too slow?
Dark Helmet: Yes, we're gonna have to go right to ludicrous TeV
Colonel Sandurz: Oh no there's a problem!
Dark Helmet: What Problem?
Colonel Sandurz: We've gone PLAID TeV
President Skroob : I don't know about this beaming stuff. Is it safe ?
Can You Still See Me?!
Tue Nov 24 00:59:49 GMT 2009 by Leon
http://www.singlesbar.webs.com
Don't expect the end of the world until they push the tin past what other machines have already done.
right now looks like they are playing it safe. if they have no fear of devistating results why take baby steps?
problem is no amount of baby steps are going to stop the world from ending if a singularity jumps out of that thing. before the woman monitoring the machine has a chance to say "oops" or "lets turn it down a notch" we'll all be dead.
like a blind person taking small steps towards a cliff edge. one to many and goodbye.
I think you missed the point. The idea isn't to gradually crank up the power because they fear they may destroy the world, but rather they may cause damage to the machine. The LHC has spent the last 14 months being repaired and no one wants to see more down time. And, even "if" it were able to produce a singularity it would not be massive enough to instantaneously swallow the world. It would accrete matter at an incredibly slow pace, so don't worry, there would be plenty of time to say "I told you so".
"More power Igor!"
"Yesss masster!"
"And now, pull the RED lever!"
"The RED level, masster???"
"Yes! THE RED LEVER! RELEASE THE LIGHTENING!!! NYAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!"
Must be a great thing to work with. Really looking forward to physics articles next year describing what's been found. :-)
Perhaps it's just me, but if I was in control of the largest machine mankind has ever produced I probably wouldn't want to crank it up to maximum straight away.
I don't think they're afraid of devastating results. They just don't want to break the LHC by doing the equivalent of turning all the knobs of your new stereo to 10 and playing Pantera until the speakers go bang..
Well ... we won't know will we.
"Don't expect the end of the world until they push the tin past what other machines have already done." - Leon
When will they push it past what nature has done in the earth's upper atmosphere?
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Baby steps is a bad term, more like a running in period. Not too sure why you dont seem to appreciate that. The initial start was a good demonstration of how many pieces there are and how many things could go wrong. Find the issue, fix it, move up to the next issue.
Dont want to jump in, turn it all the way up to 11 (thank you spinal tap) and break the thing before we have discovered anything!
Even if we find ourself alive after they push beyond 12TeV will *not* prove CERN right for choosing to press ahead.
Hindsight cannot be used as a justification for taking prior risks. Otherwise, russian roulette would have long been recognized Olympic discipline.
OK, it's been said before, but it needs to be said again: the high speed collisions that will happen in the LHC are happening all over the planet, constantly, and at much higher energies. The machine has been built so that we can catch a glimpse of these collisions in a controlled environment.
On a side note, I would appreciate it if everyone would stop lighting matches, just in case the fire spreads and spreads until the entire world explodes in a ball of flames. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it's right to keep trying your luck. It's not like Russian Roulette is a recognized Olympic discipline or something.... jeez guys... cut it out.
Thats what YOU think... :)
I wish the machine didnt break... 14 months... how many discoveries may have been made in that time...
Hey, chill. I'm sure there's plenty of parallel universes where we're already soup.
Can You Still See Me?!
Wed Nov 25 10:36:44 GMT 2009 by thomas vesely
http://tomxvesely.blogspot.com
we are not,not here,not quite there either.sort of adjacent and 14 minutes out of synch.
Can You Still See Me?!
Fri Nov 27 16:52:28 GMT 2009 by luisancho
http://lhcdefence.org
Einstein said 2 things I deem infinite, the Universe and the stupidity of man. He also explained us what mass is: a hurricane-like vortex of space-time which according to his principle of equivalence between mass and acceleration attracts more the faster it turns. Nobel Prize Wilczek: http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/253/ and myself in my work on Non-Euclidean Geometries (expansion of the 5th postulate to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, completing the model: (long URL - click here) showed we can find the mass of all particles by considering the frequency of those vortices. But quantum physicists wouldnt accept Einstein and when he died tried to promote absurd theories like the Higgs particle which nobody knows how can give mass to every other particle of the Universe if it is invisible, if particles colliding repel... But Einstein was a lonely genius and quantum physicists were doing Nuclear Bombs and Atomic cannons (LHC is a quark cannon but in Orwellian Newspeak cannon becomes collider). Plainly speaking we do not need this Damocles machine, a 13 billion $ hoax who prevents the expansion of true science, denies Einsteins work and will produce black holes and Einstein quark condensates responsible for nova explosions.
Now this CERN tells us that black holes will evaporate back to the past according to another absurd theory of quantum Hawking which says Einstein is double wrong. He never was proved. Einstein theory of black holes thus stands a standard science and his black holes never evaporate but absorb mass in an inverse nuclear bomb: M=E/c2, regardless of size as the essence of relativity is precisely that size doesnt matter. Quantum gurus pretend that because something is small it will obey quantum laws, which is utter nonsense as a small ant doesnt obey the laws of bacteria but those of ants. What matters is that black holes are mass/gravitational entities and will obey Einstein laws.
So what will happen? Simple, black holes will appear and eat the Earth. It is worth to die to show that Einstein was right? Of course not. Why politicians do nothing? But a marketing campaign has convinced mankind with the hype of replicating the big-bang (newspeak for the explosion of the Earth) and find the absurd Higgs particle that Nobel Prize Weinberg called the toilet particle to be flush in a vortex of mass of Doctor Einstein as the Earth will be this Christmas. Why the press dont denounce the first potential genocide of the human species? Do a species of infinite stupidity and arrogance deserves to live? We, humans, will indeed die of infinite stupidity, because an extinct species knows nothing=0 and Knowledge/0=Infinite stupidity. Einstein also said those who pretend to impose truth with power will be the laugh of the gods. It is about time scientists recognize the bad apples of the fruit of science=weapons, and concentrate in truly explain the Universe. It is about time quantum theorists stop trying to be wannabe Einsteins and give back the Caesar what belongs to the Caesar. In this issue there are two scientific povs. Please consider the documentary at http://www.lhcdefence.org for the pov of those who neither want to die nor are stupid.
Do we really need to further inflate the egos of thousands Einstein wannabies involved in the project?
I mean, if they are such a bunch of uniquely talented geniuses, some blackboard and chalk should do, right? Some thought experiment, perhaps?
Can they not come up with testable predictions that do not require getting matter into precarious state of existance.
Thought experiments are dead ends. Their use extend to, at best, providing theoretical frameworks for testable experiments and at worst, physics that lend themselves more to philosophical conjecture than to proveable science.
Ultimately, in the context of modern Physics, accelerators provide the most optimistic means known to man to probe the smallest scale of matter. Not only that, but also the possibility of expanding the repertoire of fundamental particles, proving the existence of a mass particle (or field) and perhaps most importantly related to that, weaving Gravity into both Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity.
These people are visionaries, standing on the brink of the most technologically advanced means to probe our physical world. And to assuage your fears, matter whips itself into precarious states of existence far greater than that achieved by the LHC as a matter of course
Respectfully,
thought experiments (from Socrates onwards) provided us with most profound and thought provoking ideas that drive science to date. That is if you are into esoteric stuff.
Then if you are not, why bother with looking at matter at level that is so much beyond our direct control? Let's instead sort out fusion, ion propulsion, make supersonic blenders, I don't know...
I do not claim that I know much about all this stuff. But space of logic argument is everybody's hunting ground and here I am making one;
Let us all agree that here we are talking about probabilities. We have here bunch of undoubtedly clever people that claim to:
1. Need to carry out these experiment because there are things they *do not know* about fundamental nature of matter.
2. Then when they need to justify that (1) is safe, the claim that they *know* everything that there is to know about fundamental nature of matter to make the safety argument.
Now, tell me, what are the odds of that; that safety related knowledge facts fall precisely into the set of *known* facts at any point in time.
Let them calculate that probability...
First of all, you mentioned Socrates so lets start with that. Many Greeks (see Pythagoreans) believed that the world with which we interact is imperfect (as opposed to "the Heavens") and therefore only pure mathematical predictions and "thought experiments" were warranted to understand the world. That greatly impeded their progress, so they made great strides in mathematics, not so much in anything else (there _were_ exceptions, like Eratosthenes, but he DID experiment).
Then you mention "sorting out fusion, ion propulsion, etc". I don't see how that is remotely incompatible with what they are doing at the LHC. What if scientists didn't figure out (by experimentation) how electricity worked in the 19th century? What if we didn't have Maxwell's equations, because it was deemed too dangerous and they should have focused on "sorting out the steam engine" or something. That makes no sense at all. Sorting out fusion may even require new technology made possible by LHC discoveries.
The fact that they do not know everything about the nature of matter, for example the Higgs or supersymmetry, doesn't mean they don't know anything about black holes or whatever your imagination will come up with to scare you. For one thing, as is often mentioned, FAR HIGHER energy collisions occur naturally from cosmic rays. We are talking a dozen _orders of magnitude_ higher. We're still here. Secondly, black holes and other dangers are well understood and have been investigated thoroughly. Third, I like to point to the first atomic tests that were carried out. Nobody was 100% sure what would happen, but they had excellent predictions (as always in physics) so they knew exactly what kind of power would be unleashed, and protected themselves accordingly.
Finally, let me assure you that scientists do not wish for the end of the world more than you (they likely wish it even less, since most are not religious and therefore value their only existence). If there is one thing that has never failed us, it's science. If it was so easy to destroy ourselves, scientists would have figured it out, or we wouldn't stand a chance to survive anyway, because it is in our nature to experiment and evolve ourselves. I don't think the laws of the Universe are that limiting, and if they are so be it, our demise was inevitable.
I addition to my previous comment I would just like to add a link to the recent NS article: (long URL - click here) about NASA irradiation testing on monkeys. Why are they doing it? Because they have responsibility for future astronauts on a long human missions beyond LEO. They are not just going to push astronauts on 2 years mission to Mars and to wait to collect results and confirm theories about influence of cosmic radiation on a human body.
CERN scientists will turn on switch convinced in their theories which assure them that everything is safe, they will collect data for years and than they will be sure if they were right about safety. LHC=Logic Heading to Confusion! :D
The LHC isn't doing anything that doesn't happen every day. High energy collisions are occuring all the time as cosmic radiation sleets across the Universe and runs into obstacles.
It's part of the background noise of reality.
All the LHC is does is let us know where and when some high energy collisions are going to occur so we can observe them. That's it.
There is no danger (except the mechanical danger to people using such large complex equipment) and all the fantastic stories of potential disaster are a complete nonsense from attention seekers.
> I do not claim that I know much about all this stuff.
Nothing more to be said, really, is there.
What Ziphead wanted to say is the matter of responsibility. With every technology step advance, we are closer and closer to the "doomsday machine", since energies and possibilities are rapidly jumping up.
I agree, in physics all theories must be tested practically if we want to prove them, otherwise we are in the field of philosophy, not physics.
BUT! There is always some "but"!
I can never forget pictures of the first testing of atomic bombs, somewhere in Nevada desert, while a group of soldiers, are standing nearby, looking at the center of the explosion, without any protection suits, or measures. Scientists sure predicted, like now in CERN, safety risks and margins, but did they really knew everything about risks? Families of those irradiated soldiers, who were standing couple of miles unprotected observing nuclear detonation could answer you today, perhaps.
CERN scientists are calculating risks upon incomplete knowledge and untested theories about the possible results of this tests. They claim that they do not know what else they could discover in LHC, but they are sure that it is safe??? I am sorry, my sense and logic cannot copy with such standpoint. If I am to test a theory in which I know what to expect and just want to confirm it, I can calculate risks more or less accurately. If I am not sure what I could get and discover upon testing, there are no way to calculate risk margins.
DID NASA knew everything about risk levels (prolonged zero gravity on human body, or cosmic radiation influence on human body or such things) when they sent astronauts to Moon, as they know today? NO, sure not! So with that level of technology, they succeeded to land on moon, but today, with all new technology, larger budgets, 40 years of experience they need 10-15 years to be prepared for Moon mission? The answer is in the responsibility: with accumulated knowledge, they have greater concerns and responsibility to take such step.
I am, of course, very curious about discoveries that LHC could bring us on the table, but I am not convinced that scientists involved there know how to calculate and predict possible risk levels. They are probing and testing theories there and calculate risk on the same theories that are to be tested? This is not a responsible way of doing things, when a high stakes are in game.
1 >> CERN scientists are calculating risks upon incomplete knowledge and untested theories about the possible results of this tests..<
Experiment or not in the long run the outcome is the same the world as we know it will end pure fact so why worry
2 > DID NASA knew everything about risk levels (prolonged zero gravity on human body, or cosmic radiation influence on human body or such things) <<
Do Astronaughts sign on the dotted line to accept the risks of venturing into space Yes they do so therfore thay accept that there may be bad side effects.
We have a problem these days of man very rapidly becoming a bunch of squriming whimps affraid to push the limits , Man by his very nature is inquisetive but that is being taken away by the ones that say you cant do that little jonny might hurt himself excuse me but SO WHAT ! i mean BIG DEAL are you all for real the simple fact of the matter is WE need to get our butts OFF this lump of space debries we call Earth we ARE outgrowing it at an alarming rate and Since most of you seem to be completely against enforced birth control we dont have the option so we have to experiment it is out nature it is our right it is our destinty we simply have to push push push.
Any theory without testable results isnt science, its philosophy. The Higgs mechanism was likely a result of some good 'ol American chalk on a blackboard when it was proposed in 1964. Thats right, 45 years ago. So unless you can figure out a way to get your blackboard and chalk up to high enough energies to prove or disprove the existance of the Higs, we may just have to rely on the LHC.
please refer to my previous response above.
Was it in the early days of steam locomotives (Stevenson's Rocket and the like) that someone said that people were going to suffocate if they travelled at more than 20 miles an hour?
Particle colliders like this are built to test and confirm or disprove hypotheses generated by the pen/paper/chalkboard stage.
This is driven by curiosity - I'd bet that practical applications that arise as a matter of this high energy research might be many years away.
My only wish is that research like this didn't cost the GDP of a small country to build and run.
Oh, and there is a significant project researching the feasibility of fusion - ITER.
Supersonic blenders, I'm not so sure! Maybe try a military grade jet engine? :-)
@Jim 'The Higgs mechanism was likely a result of some good 'ol American chalk on a blackboard when it was proposed in 1964.'
A minor point: Professor Higgs is English and spent most of his academic life at Edinburgh University (Scotland).
Lhc
Tue Nov 24 04:35:03 GMT 2009 by green tea
http://www.vitabits.co.uk/tea
It is intended to play exceptionally violent and scientific games of sub-atomic curveball billiards, in which protons will barrel round corners and smack into one another at close to light speed. This will cause them to explode, hurling various kinds of mysterious sub-subatomic gubbins in all directions.
Please stop with the doomsaying. It's old news. IF a singularity were somehow created, (impossible) because of the masses involved its event horizon would be microscopic and would last microseconds. In which case it might (MIGHT) do a little bit of damage to the collider itself before it popped out of existence. Let's take it to the next step of absurdity and say it would last indefinitely. It would be able to pass through the earth creating a hole the side of its event horizon. Whoopee. Stop the presses. Then let's take it to the NEXT level of impossibility and say it stopped in the center of the Earth (no reason for it to do that if it's a true singularity). It would take thousands of years (or millions) for the Earth to be destroyed.
So, in short; Please stop the with the doomsaying. It's old news.
Lhc
Thu Nov 26 19:31:33 GMT 2009 by tarsus
http://www.tarsusturkav.com
thanks admin
Are you really cool
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