Wikipedia talk:Tutorial

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Contents 1 Verification 2 Consider new tab? 3 hacked link on page? 4 TOC 5 Editnotices for sandboxes 6 Editnotice for this page 7 shortcut to tutorial 8 Button on screen to be clicked rather than pressed 9 Editing Protected Pages 10 clarity on the "Citing references" page 11 Standards not followed 12 WP:Bold 13 This site is a little bit redundant to WP:Article wizard 14 Using the pipe symbol 15 Move to subpages 16 Video player malfunction 17 Opening sandbox in a new tab/window 18 Replying to talk pages 19 Alvy

[edit] Verification

This is the hardest thing I ever had to do, I can't believe how many hours I have been on this site trying to figure out how to create a paragraph and then post it to this site. I feel so stupid and still can't post anything why isn't there a phone number and live person to talk too —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrakosi (talk • contribs) 00:27, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

This tutorial does not clearly express the importance of citing references when adding content to Wikipedia. Content in Wikipedia must be verifiable. This tutorial suggests that an External links section can be used as a substitute for a References or Notes and references section. This tutorial does not agree with WP:Verifiability, WP:MOS, Wikipedia:Guide to layout, and Wikipedia's guidelines on external links.

If instructions to new users do not agree with Wikipedia policies and guidelines, you can expect a lot of unsourced personal opinion and experience being recorded in Wikipedia. This tutorial encourages new editors to Be Bold without making it clear to everyone that verifiable sources are required for all text added to Wikipedia articles. This in an encyclopedia.

I strongly suggest you clean up this tutorial ASAP. It's been misleading new editors for over three years. --64.181.91.212 02:12, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the External links instructions should be replaced with Citing sources instructions that describe how to use <ref></ref>, <references/>, and {{Reflist}}. Comments? --Foggy Morning 04:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

let's do it ! ok i like doing it!!--Sekule 16:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

How? --65.78.215.78 02:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Let's call the tab "Citing sources", and adjust the text to focus on proper citations in footnotes ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I looked into this and the code whores Citing sources are both good titles for this tab. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 20:10, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I renamed the page, but made only minor modifications to the text. If you want to modify it more substantially, go ahead. Cenarium (talk) 21:17, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Consider new tab?

It would be helpful to incorporate an "advanced editing" tab that explains how to nominate AFDs and CFDs, and how to delete articles and categories one creates in error (ie, by misspelling, or by not noticing an existing similarly-named category.). I've been editing for years, but every time I encounter a potential AFD, I have turn over heaven and earth to find the instructions again. --TheEditrix2 17:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree this would be useful. I don't kow how to edit tab pages. Do you know how to edit tab pages? --Foggy Morning 14:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It'd be better to just improve/clarify the instructions at WP:AFD. -- Quiddity (talk) 20:01, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I disagree. I think that we need to keep the tutorial as simple as possible. This tutorial should be designed primarily to help people add accurate information or fix incorrect information, especially those who are only reading this to make a single edit. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 20:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] hacked link on page?

the "let's learn about editing" link on this page links to private listing for a company advertising their classified ad services. anyone know where this came from or how to fix it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TashiD (talk • contribs) 19:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. It was just a standard editing test that noone had yet reverted. Thanks for the heads-up. -- Quiddity (talk) 20:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TOC

See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost Tutorials. —Markles 17:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Editnotices for sandboxes

Using editnotices for tutorial sandboxes could help new users, with a sandbox-like introduction and more content hidden that users can show if wanted, based on the related tutorial. I have given editnotices that we could use at User:Cenarium/Sandbox/tutorial editnotice. Feedback and improvements would be appreciated, thanks. Cenarium (talk) 23:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Without taking a close look at the actual notices you've set up, I say go for it: I just plain like this idea. We've just recently put up an editnotice at Editor Assistance/Requests and the results were immediately visible. They are very helpful for new users. Good idea, Cenarium!  :-] Fleetflame 15:37, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I take it this is done now? Looks good. Rd232 ^talk 15:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I added ones for editing, formatting and Wikipedia links. They can be edited (by admins) at Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Tutorial (Editing)/sandbox, etc. We can discuss them here for improvements. Cenarium (talk) 17:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Looks great! L∴V 14:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Editnotice for this page

Located at Template:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia talk:Tutorial. Cenarium (talk) 15:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

tell about bus duct . pls tell exactly what is this with any picture if possible

[edit] shortcut to tutorial

Hi ya'll. Just want to mention, H:T goes to Help:Template, while WP:T goes here. Seems like it should be different is all. JoeSmack ^Talk 02:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Button on screen to be clicked rather than pressed

On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tutorial_(Talk_pages) It says:

For your convenience, there is a button at the top of the edit box with a signature icon inserts "--~~~~" when pressed.

I think it should read "clicked" rather than "pressed". AmigoCgn (talk) 15:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Clicked may be a better term - have changed, cheers! Lee∴V (talk • contribs) 22:17, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

While we're on the subject, there are some issues with that particular sentence ("For your convenience, there is a button at the top of the edit box with a signature icon inserts "--~~~~" when clicked."). I feel it should read "For your convenience, there is a button at the top of the edit box with a signature icon which inserts "--~~~~" when clicked. I don't think I myself am actually able/allowed to make that correction, though, so I leave the matter in your wiser and more capable hands. ;) - ReySquared (talk) 22:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

You're right - good spot. Just fixed it.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 22:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Editing Protected Pages

Many Wikipedia pages are now protected and new users, who may be subject matter experts, will have difficulty understanding the complexity of different types of protection. This issue makes editing very difficult and discourages contributions to Wikipedia. WikiProject pages require special access to make edits. I would like to see a tab in the tutorial section called: Editing Protected Pages. Currently in Wikipedia there are links in different places leading to pages explaining protection. I have found that the format is not in a "learning style" and it is necessary to find and click on many links on different pages to gain a more complete understanding of how to edit protected articles. Figlinus (talk) 00:44, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] clarity on the "Citing references" page

It would have been a help to me if the line:

• <ref>YOUR SOURCE</ref>

would have been followed by the words: This will put a footnote reference number in superscript after the last word before the tagged entry.--Ngstanton (talk) 14:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree completely. I also think that the tutorial page on citing sources needs to be

1. Rewritten in a more noob-friendly way, and
2. Made more comprehensive.

Personally, I think that Wikipedia should encourage users to adopt a single variation of each type of reference format to make these simpler. SlimNm (talk) 02:31, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Standards not followed

The normal academic and business standard is not folowed in the first para. It reads, "Instead of a strict WYSIWYG approach ("What You See Is What You Get"),.. ".

This should be changed to "Instead of a strict "What You See Is What You Get" (WYSIWYG) approach , ...".

The standard is that you write the full term first and then put the aronym or other common term in parenthesis. Thereafter, you are free to use the acronym etc without explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Apault (talk • contribs) 11:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC) Written by Apault (apologies for original omission) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Apault (talk • contribs) 11:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Bold

Have boldly went and added a link to Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual for anyone wanting an extensive manual. See what you think of it, dave souza, talk 16:04, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Good idea. I think many new users would appreciate having a more in depth tutorial. -- œ^™ 17:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

[edit] This site is a little bit redundant to WP:Article wizard

, isn´t it? --Hæggis (talk) 18:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Mmm, nope, I don't think so, but even so, redundancy is good when it comes to training newbies. -- œ^™ 20:11, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

As the case may be. If you want to distinguish different types of newbies, it can be helpful. But different common (main)sites binds ressources for updating, (user) memory etc. and can confound newbies. --Hæggis (talk) 22:21, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Using the pipe symbol

From the tutorial: "These differing titles make piped links especially useful, as a link to Georgia (country) is far less readable than a piped link called Georgia."

As it stands, I disagree with it. A link to Georgia (country) is a lot more readable than a link to Georgia, for the simple reason that if you go to the Georgia disambiguation page you get a few dozen references to Georgia. I think what is meant is that Georgia alone is a lot more readable in proper context. For example, when naming European countries, it is obvious that a link to Georgia is referring to the country. Similarly, when naming US states, a link to Georgia will clearly be linking to the state. Outside of an appropriate context though, a link should include in brackets, what version of Georgia is being linked to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.189.7.40 (talk) 00:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The point is that Wikipedia links almost always come with a context, as they are not just bare links but are part of a sentence and paragraph in the body of the text. So for example if I write "The Macintosh computer is made by Apple" I need to pipe the link. I could add the ", Inc." to the text but that's not what I want to write and is not the way the company is normally referred to, and it's clear from the context I mean the computer maker.

--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 09:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

And when a link does not have a context such as in See also sections and Disambiguation pages, the brackets are normally included (ie unpiped). So everything is already as it should be. -- œ^™ 04:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Move to subpages

[edit] Video player malfunction

In the "Wikipedia links" tab the video player runs about 1/2 way and then just ends mid sentence. at least on my computer. I tried it 3 times. Just letting you know RifeIdeas Talk 17:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I can't reproduce the problem. It could be that it needs to buffer at that point on your computer. If your position in playing the video reaches the amount of video downloaded, the video player will stop while it downloads more of the video before continuing. --Bsherr (talk) 20:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I've had a few problems with content from the media server, i.e. uploads.wikimedia.org, so images have been missing on a few occasions for a short while in the last few days, so it could be you've had something similar. Apart from that Wikipedia's video support is unlike watching videos on the Web: almost everyone else uses Flash, the few that don't use QuickTime or WMV. See Help:Media for more information on the formats and what you need to do to play them.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 20:30, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I went back and made sure I had the allow Apple add on from Wikipedia okayed then went to Introduction and that video worked fine, then to Formatting and that video worked also, but when I got to the video in Wikipedia links that is where the video stopped about 1/2 way in fact the screen showed [[bold and the message "playback ended" appeared at the bottom. There was never any need for buffering at the beginning of the video and I waited 15 minutes after the stop, doing absolutely nothing to my computer and no change. Just an update. RifeIdeas Talk 21:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Opening sandbox in a new tab/window

Sometimes, while in sandbox, I realize that I have already forgotten some minor things that I just read, so I have to go back read it again, go to the sandbox again and edit. I have a suggestion to make:

• Open the sandbox in a new tab/window, when using the tutorial

OR

• Make a page in the tutorial with the brief list of all commands, so that users can open that in a separate window.

That way, if something minor forgotten (like number of (=)'s or (')'s, the user would only have to switch between tabs/windows instead of clicking their way back to and from the tutorial page. --RukhShona (talk) 11:37, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Replying to talk pages

So I noticed that the talk pages section saysː

"You can reply in either of two ways. One is to put a message on the user talk page of the person you are replying to. The other is to put your reply on your own talk page beneath the original message. Both are common on Wikipedia; however, be aware that replying on your own talk page runs the risk that your reply won't be seen, if the user does not look at your talk page again. If you intend to use this approach, it is a good idea to post a notice to that effect, at the top of your talk page, so people know they have to keep an eye on the page to see your response, rather than getting your response on their page."

As a newbie here, I was actually wondering if there was a trend to make one way or the other the standard. I was also wondering if using the first way (putting the message on the user talk page of the person you are replying to) is easier since the other user does not need to constantly watch your own user talk page, and then just adding/quoting the message you are replying to as a reminder.

Also, unrelated but I also wanted to know if using the IPA colon (either from Special characters or switching from the Insert down-arrow) is the proper way to add a colon? I'm kind of unsure of how to add symbols that Wikitext already uses, such as apostrophes and colons. With the programming languages I am familiar with, I would just use a backslash/escape character (\) to perform the function I want it to. Iamany (talk) 10:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

There is no standard, but I personally think conversations should be kept in one place, if possible. As you may not know, when someone edits your talk page in any way you get the unmistakable orange bar announcing you have new messages (I've just left a welcome message at your talk page so you should have just gotten your first orange bar). So, many think if they don't respond at the outside talk page, the person won't get this alert, which is part of the motivation for that. One solution is to use {{Talkback}} or {{Talkbacktiny}}, so the person get the orange bar but the conversation remains in one place. Regarding colons, I'm not sure what you're getting at but a regular old colon right from your keyboard works fine for everything. If you want to use a colon as text, in a place where the software would normally recognize it as code (e.g. at the beginning of a sentence as an indent level) you would place it in nowiki tags (<nowiki>:</nowiki>). Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:51, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome and for the very helpful information. <nowiki></nowiki> is exactly what I was looking for.--Iamany (talk) 12:36, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Alvy

Alvy is a name originated from the last name Alvarez. He is an adorable chihuahua who is loving and brightens your day. if you mess with any of the alvarez's he'll probably attack you, unless of course its bro he doesn't like him much.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thedoggyworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/chihuahua.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thedoggyworld.com/news/most-popular-small-breeds-for-apartments/&usg=__ateCQ5-1ZZW5tANJ6yu-VpUdNfE=&h=338&w=450&sz=31&hl=en&start=113&zoom=1&tbnid=-NSriNssKY6g_M:&tbnh=126&tbnw=160&ei=5XirTe7YPILmsQOhpIH6DA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchihuahua%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D737%26tbm%3Disch0%2C2566&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=391&oei=zXirTevlE5O4sQPi3YyhCQ&page=5&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:113&tx=102&ty=61&biw=1280&bih=737h — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mig120188 (talk • contribs) 23:37, 17 April 2011 (UTC)