User talk:Grutness

Please add new discussions at the bottom of the page!

I've moved earlier discussions to archive pages (as listed below). A few of the items I've simply got rid of - if I have, it's simply that it was trivial and/or stuff which has been dealt with, and is therefore no longer relevant. The deletion is not a reflection of my opinion of the writers!

Archives

10/04-01/05	02/05	03-04/05	04-05/05
05/05	06/05	07/05: 1	07/05: 2
08/05	09/05: 1	09/05: 2	10/05
11/05	12/05	01/06	02/06
03-04/06	05-06/06	07-08/06	09-10/06
11-12/06	01/07	02-03/07	04-05/07
06/07	07-08/07	09-10/07	11-12/07
01-02/08	03-04/08	05/08	06-07/08
08-09/08	10/08	11-12/08	01/09
02-03/09	04-05/09	06-07/09	08/09-6 Jan 2010
01-06/10	07-11/10	12/10-02/11	03-12/11
2012	01-06/13	07-12/13	2014
2015	2016	01-09/2017	10-12/2017
01-06/2018	07-12/2018	2019*	*
*	*	*	*
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* = still to archive

List of bays of Scotland

Hi @Grutness: I think some of the links you put in are misses. It Scotland. scope_creep^Talk 00:57, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I've just been correcting all the links - someone else put them in. Grutness...wha? 00:58, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Walked into that one with my eyes open. Sorry, Start again. Excellent work. Thanks. How are you? scope_creep^Talk 01:03, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Not bad - thanks for starting the bays list. There's going to be a lot to add from the northwest of the country! Grutness...wha? 01:05, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

List of contemporary ethnic groups.

Hi! I just saw your discussion on the Talk:List of contemporary ethnic groups, and I just want to ask: can you clarify what you mean? Rjrya395 (talk) 01:14, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

"Contemporary" has two meanings. It's come to mean "present day", but its earlier and still more widespread meaning, particularly in archaeology and anthropology, is "at the same time". So while you're actually trying to list present-day ethnic groups, many of the more likely users of the page might expect the page to be lists of ethnic groups who were contemporaries with each other.Grutness...wha? 05:09, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I guess that makes sense, but I'm just an editor who ended up taking full control of that page. Rjrya395 (talk) 18:51, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

No-one "takes full control" of a page - it's against Wikipedia policies to do so (see WP:OWN). Grutness...wha? 23:37, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Chicago school architecture

Thanks for going through and categorizing buildings into Category:Chicago school architecture in Illinois. Are you planning to categorize buildings in other states as well? I ask because there are three existing categories for the style that call it the Commercial style: one's for Illinois, which should probably be merged into your new category, but Iowa and Wyoming don't have corresponding categories yet, and we may want to just rename the existing categories. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 14:51, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks - I didn't know about tat. Currently I'm going through all the "what links here" on Chicago school. With any luck i'll have time tomorrow to do a few more state categories. "Commercial architecture" is a bit of a problem - some buildings seem to have been classified as that simply because they're old-style brick strip malls and don't have much connection with Chicago style - but it certainly does make sense to change category names rather than do a whole new parallel set-up. Grutness...wha? 14:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

The brick strip malls are a quirk of how the National Register of Historic Places categorizes its architectural styles. It tends to use "Commercial" for both more traditional Chicago school buildings and smaller-scale buildings from the same era that used similar design principles, which is fine but also covers a lot of early 20th century Midwestern commercial buildings. To confuse matters though, it also categorizes some buildings as "Early Commercial", and nobody on WikiProject National Register of Historic Places has ever quite been sure what that means. I'll leave a comment there to see if anyone has thoughts about the category structure here. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 15:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Grutness...wha? 15:09, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Category:John F. Kennedy memorials

Hey there, Just wanted to let you know that I replied to your note on my talk page a few days ago. (I even pinged you, guess it didn't get your attention.) Regards, Anomalous+0 (talk) 13:47, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Oops - sorry - heading there now :) Grutness...wha? 00:46, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Ways to improve Tariki, New Zealand

Hello, Grutness,

Thanks for creating Tariki, New Zealand! I edit here too, under the username Boleyn and it's nice to meet you :-)

I wanted to let you know that I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:-

Please add your references.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Boleyn}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ . For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Boleyn (talk) 20:52, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Heh. Hi @Boleyn: Yeah, I simply created a temporary stub to fix a redlink. I'm hoping to get onto expanding it soon. No offence, but it's always wise to check a user's history before suggestions they know well - thanks anyway :) Grutness...wha? 01:29, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

American presidential building categories

I saw your work on categories like Category:Presidential libraries. I'm wondering if you have any opinion on how to handle the categorization of a different kind of American president, the President of the CSA, Jefferson Davis. We have articles on Jefferson Davis Presidential Library and Museum and his home, Beauvoir (Biloxi, Mississippi). Is it OK to categorize them under the American categories, which have descriptions specifying that they apply to USA presidents? If so, should we change the description? Or is it better to create single-article categories for a defunct-if-it-ever-existed nation? See Category talk:Presidential homes in the United States. Mobi Ditch (talk) 20:26, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Mmmmm. Good question. To be honest, I'm not sure. Technically, he's an American President even though he was never a President of the USA. And being the only holder of that office, a parent category would be deleted because of WP:SMALLCAT. I think I'd hedge my bets and just leave him where he is in Category:Monuments and memorials by person and Category:Confederate States of America monuments and memorials. Grutness...wha? 01:50, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your helpful reply. I had some vague impression about the rules, but now that I look at WP:SMALLCAT I see that there may be an exemption for categories that are part of a larger category scheme. It gives the example of Category:Flags by country, which contains the single entry category Category:Flags of Namibia. If there was an overall category for "Presidential libraries by country", then it'd make sense to have a CSA entry. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyway, I guess I'll just leave those categorizations as they are. The CSA's status as a short-lived, unrecognized nation makes it hard to fit into any tidy scheme. Mobi Ditch (talk) 22:09, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

As you say, it's part of an overall scheme with lots of countries, which is the main difference. Also it's not impossible that Namibia will some day have a different flag. I don't think many countries other than the US (if any) have official presidential libraries, and there's never any likelihood of another one. Grutness...wha? 02:53, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

hi Grutness, wow! cats added within 2mins of article creation, thanks!:))

Coolabahapple (talk) 06:31, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Aww - that's cute :) Thank you! Grutness...wha? 06:34, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Red Links

Thank you for letting me know in regards to red links! Appreciate it :) --TheDomain (talk) 07:38, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Fred Strachan

This chap hasn't got an article yet (he sure is notable!) and he's not the youngest person either. Maybe it's a good idea to take a photo of him at some point 'just in case'. Do you think you might come across him? Schwede66 08:50, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I'd not heard of him... I don't think there's much chance I'd see him, to be honest. It's possible some other Dunedin Wikipedian might though... User:Dushan Jugum, perhaps? 08:58, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Ok, you are clearly not interested in rowing then. He's had a significant contribution with the 1972 New Zealand eight. He's still at it! Schwede66 09:01, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Not really. I categorised a few rowing articles recently, but it's not really an interest of mine. Grutness...wha? 09:03, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I couldn't really explain why the sport interests me as I've never been involved in it myself. In fact it's a mystery to me. But I am fascinated by it. Schwede66 09:06, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

James Ross

Hi Grutness, just wanted to let you know that I reverted your edit to James Ross because guidelines say that red-linked entries should have a link to an existing article (MOS:DABRED) and that they should not contain external links (MOS:DABEXT). Leschnei (talk) 00:41, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Leschnei: - guidelines must have changed at some point! For the past ten years or more, redlinks have been encouraged if there were also redlinks from other articles pointing to the same target, and standard procedure was to link them with an external link to show notability! I agree that there should also be a blue link to an existing article though. Grutness...wha? 01:24, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I've only been on Wikipedia for a couple of years, so I'm still trying to get a grip on the ins and outs. As I understand it, the (current) idea behind disambiguation pages is to guide readers to existing content, so orphan red links and links that leave Wikipedia are not useful. Leschnei (talk) 02:19, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Makes sense. Redlinks in articles are much more useful, since they point out articles which need to be made. Grutness...wha? 02:29, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

By the way PamD found an article for James Ross (artist) that I missed, so that one has been put back. Leschnei (talk) 12:40, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	This is for your hard work and valuable contributions in Wikipedia. Thank you for your selfless service. Thank you. PATH SLOPU 09:11, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! :) Grutness...wha? 09:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Avon river named after the Stratford Avon?

I am curious who these people are who believe the river is named after the Stratford Avon. I have lived over in Diamond Harbour for several years and have family in St Martins and I have never heard mention of this analogy. Are there sources to corroborate this ? Regards  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   13:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

It's a pretty common belief. I've definitely been told by people from Christchurch that that was the reason for the name. I'll see if I can find any sources. Grutness...wha? 13:38, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Heh. Ironically, the first source I looked at for the name origin confusion claimed that it's sometimes believed that it's named for the River Avon which runs through Christchurch in Hampshire! I think I've found where my Christchurch friends' idea came from though - [1]. Grutness...wha? 13:45, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi

You could look Fontarón please? DJose Méndez (talk) 20:58, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@DJose Méndez: Looks OK to me - I've added a template saying there is more information at the Spanish-language Wikipedia which could be translated for use here. Other than that, it's a reasonable stub article with enough references. Grutness...wha? 04:54, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Māori people stubs

Kia ora, Grutness. Per your suggestion I've removed the speedy renaming request for Category:Māori people stubs and I've listed it at CfD for full discussion. Feel free to comment there. I also left a comment at Stub sorting/Proposals regarding the Indigenous North American bio stub templates. Ngā mihi. – Liveste (talk • edits) 14:02, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Ka pai. Thanks :) Grutness...wha? 14:20, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Croughton

What I know of Croughton is that it has an air base covered with American radio comms masts, just like its partner along the B4031, RAF Barford St John - which we could see out the kitchen window of Mum's old house in Barford St Michael.

Do you still live in the area? There is a meetup in Oxford in nine days time. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:50, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

@Redrose64: No - couldn't be much further away in fact - I'm in New Zealand! I still keep up with a few of my old schoolfriends in the area, though. The air base has grown a lot since I was in the area (we were in the non-military part of the village). I remember that the shop that my parents ran accepted both sterling and dollars. My parents almost moved to closer to your mum's place, Deddington. Grutness...wha? 12:06, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I was at Deddington Primary School, 1969-76. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:47, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I was at Croughton C of E primary at about the same time! Grutness...wha? 00:28, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

On the matter of RAF Croughton, did the news services in NZ cover this story? It was on the UK nationals for a day or two, and BBC South Today are still covering it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:30, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but only as a small item - made the newspapers but I don't think it was covered on TV news. They didn't mention it was Croughton, but it was easy to put two and two together. Grutness...wha? 03:08, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Bank of Otago

Remembering your (still unresolved in WP) concepts of stock and station agents am watching your edits with much interest. Please would you fix up poor old Larnach. Eddaido (talk) 12:49, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Happy First edit day!

Thank you! Grutness...wha? 03:11, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society

Dear Grutness,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Fifteen Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for fifteen years or more. ​

Best regards, Chris Troutman (talk) 00:40, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

I might jut d that - thanks :) Grutness...wha? 03:11, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Addition of pseudoscientific category

Hello! Recently I've noticed that you've added a category designating various aquatic creatures and purported monsters as "cryptids". As cryptozoology is a pseudoscience and this promotes the notion these these creatures are what adherents of the subculture calls "cryptids", this falls in the category of WP:PROFRINGE. I've since removed these categories. :bloodofox: (talk) 02:27, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• Erm - you do realise there is a long-standing family tree of cryptids in Wikipedia, and that as such these articles should be part of it? This is in no way a promotion of fringe theories as per WP:PROFRINGE, which I suggest you read before correcting any more valid edits. Grutness...wha? 02:43, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

None of those articles contain a single reliable source discussing cryptozoologist interest in these topics, and the application of categories claiming any particular entity is what cryptozoologists call a "cryptid" certainly falls well into he category of promotion of fringe theories. We don't allow it for Young Earthers or any other pseudoscience proponents, and I don't see why we should be making any exceptions for this particular subculture. :bloodofox: (talk) 02:48, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

What? No cryptozoological interest in the Loch Ness Monster? Or in the Waitoreke (which I was involved in a scientific search for)? Surely you jest. And whether you don't see why or not is irrelevant to an existing scheme on Wikipedia which has passed muster from a host of other editors. If you have any objections to the categories and their population, take it through proper channels to WP:CFD or some related process page. Don't simply decide on your own whim that they have no place in Wikipedia and depopulate them. Grutness...wha? 02:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Find a reliable source discussing cryptozoologist interest in these topics, and we can include the category. In the mean time, I ask that you please self-revert your reversions. :bloodofox: (talk) 02:58, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Let's take one at random - the last one I reverted: Steller's sea ape. That has an entire section on the research history of the cryptid, yet you clearly didn't think that was enough for it to be regarded as a cryptid. Several others that I reverted had similar sections. Your blanket de-categrisation points to you taking no account for scientific research interest, so bringing it up now seems a bit strange. Grutness...wha? 03:09, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

That article says nothing about fringe proponents such as cryptozoologists—you're introducing the term "cryptid". Folklorists, biologists, and historians do not use the term "cryptid"—they do not assume there's really sneaky dinosaur or monster hiding somewhere and decide to employ all sorts of fanciful notions of monster hunting. Instead, they take into account a creature or claim's cultural context and history without the need for pseudoscientific terminology. As for looking at what you're blanket reverting, your blanket reversions restored several fringe sources along the way that I had removed (like this one, and you even managed to revert a vote I made on an article for deletion. :bloodofox: (talk) 03:14, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

That was an accident for which I apologise. As for restoring those sources, again it was my mistake, but if it appears that one editor is going on a lone crusade then that is liable to happen when their edits are reverted. Grutness...wha? 03:26, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

To get back to an earlier claim of yours that other fringe groups are not catered to with categories on Wikipedia, have y taken a look at Category:Paranormal and its subcategories? They are heavily populated with items that are at least as fringe as cryptozoology. Perhaps you'd like them all deleted? Grutness...wha? 03:26, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Please don't blame me for your mistakes. That is no way to have a conversation. Additionally, please go back and remove th fringe stuff you've restored after I took the time to check them out and remove them.

I regularly edit in pseudoscience categories, and the term "paranormal" is not the byproduct of a pseudoscientific subculture (everyday people use the term "monster", bot the faux-science-y "cryptid", for example). Folklorists regularly write about belief in the concept of paranormal, which is widespread and not restricted to pseudoscientific approaches such as ghost hunting. We write about what reliable sources have to say on the topic, just as we do anything else. :bloodofox: (talk) 03:30, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm not blaming you for my mistakes. And I thoroughly agree with the problems of patrolling categories (something I've been doing here for a long time). The problem seems to arise from the use of the term cryptid for those categories. If the categories were titled, for example, Category:Lake monsters rather than Category:Lake cryptids, it might cause less contention. But as things stand, the term cryptid is used for the categories, and so those are the categories used. If you wish to change the names of the categories (I certainly would support that move if you did), then -as mentioned before - WP:CFD is the place to go. As you yourself say, using "cryptid" categories suggests some support of fringe theories, even if that is not in any way intended. Grutness...wha? 03:39, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

No worries about said mistakes and I think you're right about CFD. To be clear, I don't suspect you're intentionally promoting any sort of fringe theories or anything like that. Really, "lake monster" is the category we should be using here for a lot of these, and we do have some holdovers from previous attempts by cryptozoologist users long ago on the site to turn the site into a sort of pseudoscience compendium, and so those categories need to be replaced with something more accurate (it seems to happen with all fringe stuff, and some of them appear to have left the subculture behind for folklore studies, actually). The step you recommend is wholly reasonable, and I probably should have been done it a long time ago. However, I think it'd be appropriate to just swap the categories for more accurate categories in the mean time, like the one you propose above. I'll go ahead and create it. :bloodofox: (talk) 03:46, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Excellent :) Last thing I want is to get into a serious argument with another experienced editor! A bulk CfD proposal would definitely be worth doing soon though. Grutness...wha? 03:51, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Certainly and agreed. Thank you for insight and recommendation, Grutness. :bloodofox: (talk) 03:54, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

No problem, and again apologies for any annoyance caused! Grutness...wha? 05:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• (talk page watcher) What a pleasure to read a talkpage discussion where two editors begin in conflict and have a rational conversation ending in agreement. Sadly rare, both on-wiki and elsewhere. Season's greetings to you both! PamD 07:03, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks - you too! :) Grutness...wha? 08:48, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Yuletide cheer to you both! :) :bloodofox: (talk) 17:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

And to you! Grutness...wha? 23:14, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Ways to improve Kainga

Hello, Grutness,

Thank you for creating Kainga.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Please add your references.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Boleyn}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Boleyn (talk) 07:42, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Dear @Boleyn: I did not create that article, I created a redirect on that page to an article which I had created at kāinga. Someone else later turned it into a stub. Also, with due respect, after nearly 15 years in Wikipedia and some quarter of a million edits, I have some idea how to create an article ;) Grutness...wha? 07:57, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

I will expand the article a little and add some sources. Grutness...wha? 08:02, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Smoke Comment

Hi Grutness,
I hear we in Oz have become the 'Land of the Big Smoke', and have been 'sharing' it with you guys. Sorry about that! ☹️
I am actually sitting outside using the free city wi-fi, wearing a dust mask at this moment, and it is very smoky.--220 of ^Borg 04:19, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Yeah - we had a brown morning sky the other day, and Auckland's copped it today. Just gives some indication of how bad it must be across the ditch. Hope things improve over there soon! Grutness...wha? 05:48, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Well it stayed very smoky till later that night, but then cleared up greatly in the early AM(?) and is far better today (Monday 6/1).
I am about 110 km due west of a number of the coastal fires, so if an easterly wind comes in the smoke just flows in!
But 25 people (so far) have died, so the smoke isn't too much to 'endure', though apparently one elderly persons' death in Canberra is attributed to the smoke. [2] 220 of ^Borg 05:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

DYK for 1929 New Zealand cyclone

On 12 January 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article 1929 New Zealand cyclone, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that one person died during the 1929 New Zealand cyclone when a railway locomotive fell from washed-out track into the Taieri River? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/1929 New Zealand cyclone. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, 1929 New Zealand cyclone), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:01, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Dear Grutness,Thanks for your incredible efforts in editing and improving Wikipedia links. Mrloopitus (talk) 02:08, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! :) Grutness...wha? 02:10, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Happy Adminship Anniversary!

Thanks! :) Grutness...wha? 06:48, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Etymology

Hey friend, I reverted you on Berisha, because there was is bibliography that connects that name to a Slavic etymology. From the work I've done on Ottoman defters, I've never seen a change from /r/ to /l/ mid-sentence in Albanian. Nor is there some tradition that says that "Berisha i Bardh" is "real Berisha", or to any connection with "fair-skinned people". The Slavic Bel- in Albanian hasn't entered as "white", but as a term for a very specific breed of white sheep. So a "belja" for example refers to that breed. The Slavic term for white never entered in Albanian as a loanword that replaced that Albanian term bardh. For example, the Montenegrin tribe Bjelopavlići (descendants of White Paul) in Albanian is knows as Palabardhi. Lastly, the -ić suffix in Slavic, becomes -iqi in Albanian. -Isha is cognate to Latin -issius, which how Berisha incidentally is recorded in Latin. Best.--Maleschreiber (talk) 10:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

These are the reasons that make me think that what you wrote is very improbable, but I'm open to discussion if there is bilbiography.--Maleschreiber (talk) 10:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Agree with Maleschreiber. But actually all of the reasoning is kind of pointless because, admin or not, what you added was OR. --Calthinus (talk) 19:12, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Understood - though it's not OR. My problem is that I have read it in a book several years ago, but the title and authors name elude me. Grutness...wha? 03:28, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Tip of the hat to you

Grutness, thanks for the heads up and your work. Brunswicknic (talk) 07:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

No probs - and thanks! Grutness...wha? 11:45, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

List of shipwrecks in September 1863

The entry for 14 September contains an unreferenced entry for Spirit. Is this a vessel listed by Gaines? Mjroots (talk) 17:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I've no idea -: I was simply adding the Ingram and Wheatley information (which is all New Zealand-related) - I don't have a copy of Gaines. Grutness...wha? 04:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I'll have to trawl through the article history and find out who added the Gaines info. Mjroots (talk) 05:57, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Photographic pages, links, genres, structure

I expect I was wronging you, please disregard. There's something weird or broken in the linking and finding articles department. Midgley (talk) 17:15, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Yup - it was nothing to do with me. No prob, though :) Grutness...wha? 04:56, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I think the problem was that the link added to the draft article used uppercase for the second word. Links are case sensitive apart from the first character.-gadfium 05:45, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Waka stats.jpg

The file File:Waka stats.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unused free use image with no clear use on the Wiki.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. fuzzy510 (talk) 09:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Had to look this up to work out what it was. It was used in a RM discussion... seven years ago. I doubt it's much use any longer. Grutness...wha? 15:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Thank you! Grutness...wha? 00:26, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Diacritics

Hey G! How are things Down Under? I was just closing a bunch of stub proposals, some of which raised the question of diacritics in stub templates, and the only discussion of this I could find was in an OLD archive: here. The consensus seems to have been to form templates without diacritics with redirects from the "diacritical" versions. Can you confirm? (I'm gonna put a sentence on the naming conventions page in regard thereto.) Cheers, Her Pegship (?) 23:29, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Peg - not bad down here (spending less time online - looking after an elderly parent takes a lot of my time) - hope things are good with you. Yeah, as far as I remember that's pretty much it, or the other way round - doesn't really matter which. As long as the unaccented version and the "correct" version both link to the template, then everything's happy. Grutness...wha? 02:20, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Tool for finding city-basketball player intersection?

Hi Grutness, I noticed that you created a number of city-basketball player categories recently. Thank you for this. Do you have a tool that allows you to find the intersection quickly? I've been manually sorting Category:Sportspeople from Los Angeles and other sportspeople from X categories and it is very tedious.--User:Namiba 16:43, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Namiba, yes there's a tool called Petscan which I use - it saves a lot of time. It also guarantees that I've got enough articles for a category before I start. Here's a link to it [3]. Grutness...wha? 02:28, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I tried to use it but I couldn't figure out how to find results. Is there a how-to guide on using it? Can you give me a brief overview? Thanks for your help.--User:Namiba 16:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

sure - it's pretty straightforward. First make sure that languages is set to "en" and project is "Wikipedia" (that should happen automatically). Then just put two categories (without the "category:") into the category's field (e.g., "Basketball players" and "Sportspeople from Seattle"). Set depth to about three (so that it scans subcategories up to three levels down), and press "Do it". You should get a list of article names and links underneath. (in the Seattle example it yielded 70 articles). Grutness...wha? 03:20, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Category:Basketball players from Zadar

Please stop creating these categories, at least for now. They are not helpful. I would revert you, but I am working to set up an RfC with Namiba on this. Thanks. SportingFlyer T·C 15:41, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Actually they're extremely helpful and I'm only continuing a scheme which others have already started, and with category types which recently passed CFD as keep. I'll pause for now, but since consensus is to keep them going, and since there's very useful on Wikipedia both for navigation and to cut down very large categories, I don't see any reason why you should want to stop them being created. Grutness...wha? 15:46, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll make sure to ping you into the further discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 15:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

@SportingFlyer:, can you please ping me too for the upcoming RFC? Thanks. - Darwinek (talk) 02:14, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Sure. I'm not sure it's in the cards at the moment (and am taking a break for the holidays) but I'll ping if I set it up. SportingFlyer T·C 11:45, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Thankyou for your vote on countries and establishment year

I have spent a huge amount of energy trying to improve this category tree and make it accurately reflect the situation on the ground when things were set up and also correctly reflect where things were set up. The fact some are trying to delete this huge tree makes me feel like there is an attempt to destroy much of my work helping Wikipedia. It is also odd to me that this proposal to delete can be done without posting notice on most of the thousands of categories invoolved.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

No prob. Grutness...wha? 02:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy Adminship Anniversary!

That's 16 years. Mate, you've been around! Happy anniversary. Schwede66 07:27, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you! Grutness...wha? 08:03, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of List of Australian and New Zealand advertising characters for deletion

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Proposed deletion of File:OtagoKitesurf.jpg

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Proposed deletion of File:Ngauruhoe from Desert Road.jpg

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"Caketin" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Caketin. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 5#Caketin until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 13:34, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 17

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Thank you for the barnstar!

Thank you for the barnstar, Grutness, it is much appreciated! Yes, I am fellow Dunedinite. I feel like I may have met you a long time ago at one of Mike D's fleeting visits? But it was back when I was brand new to this whole Wiki thing so I may be mistaken. Anyway, I am planning on working on more local content this year, no matter how much is done there always seem to be so many gaps! DrThneed (talk) 05:12, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

It's possible - I did go to a couple of those (one was at Otago Museum I remember). And yes, there's always more worth adding :) Grutness...wha? 11:01, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Stub categories

What is the minimum number of stub articles for a category? From memory I think it might be 30, but I can't find anything about this. Is the number set down in a policy or guideline somewhere? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:16, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Not as policy but as a guideline. It's usually 50-60 unless there's an associated WikiProject, in which case it can be as low as about 30. From memory, it's all covered at WP:STUB#Guidelines. Grutness...wha? 12:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:03, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Islamic organizations established in 1962

A tag has been placed on Category:Islamic organizations established in 1962 indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 15:55, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

It's no longer empty. Grutness...wha? 02:39, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Category:Mass media in Bydgoszcz has been nominated for merging

Category:Mass media in Bydgoszcz has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Refrencing of Mim bour Article improved

Hi Admin, could you review my article " Mim bour" and recommend for approval? Boadu Emma (talk) 18:41, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

OK - I'll have a look. Grutness...wha? 03:32, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Grutness,many thanks for your assistance.

You're such a wonderful Admin.

Mim Bour is on Google now. How can the star photo of my article appear after Google search?

Pls how can my Boadu Emma (talk) 12:36, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! :) Unfortunately I don't know how to get that photo on Google. Grutness...wha? 15:29, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Most grateful for your response Boadu Emma (talk) 18:26, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to disturb you sir

I just read more about you. It appears you're a very busy person since you're an editor of such prestigious newspaper.

Grutness, Please if you find any spare time, kindly attend to me on below two questions so I can finish up my next article.Boadu Emma (talk) 15:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

1. After getting the geographical coordinates of a mountain, Is there a special tool for calculating the height of that mountain?

2. After getting coordinates of two places, is there a tool to calculate the length or distance between them?Boadu Emma (talk) 15:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

The answer to the first question is no - you'd need to find a source for the height. As to the second question, there might be, but if there is I don't know what it is. Grutness...wha? 02:49, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Sir Grutness, thanks for the response sir. I asked because of the recent help you offered me on my article on Mim Bour. You provided the elevations of the mountains for me. So I was wondering how you got it and if you could share with me so it can guide me in future articles. Much love sirBoadu Emma (talk) 21:47, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

You can get an approximate height from Google maps' "Terrain" layer, which shows contour lines, but for anything more accurate you'd need to find a website which gives the height. Grutness...wha? 04:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Sir Grutness, I am most grateful for the assistanceBoadu Emma (talk) 06:51, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Urgent Assistance needed.

Hi sir, pls I have published an article about Mim Lake.

There are certain dimensions which I will need your help.

Here's the coordinates of the lake =6|55|10|N|2|37|15|W|

Google image of the lake is online. You can use your expertise to obtain me the size of the lake. Boadu Emma (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm. I've tidied it a little, but unless there's a source actually listing the area, it can't really be added to the article. Grutness...wha? 14:49, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry sir. Saw your reply very late Boadu Emma (talk) 21:37, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

They are asking me to do some more edits and republish it for consideration Boadu Emma (talk) 21:39, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

If I get your point, you're saying for example, the place has to be indicated on a map as a lake before.

Hope that's what you mean sir? Boadu Emma (talk) 21:43, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

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Cornwallis

I can't believe we both made an article at the same time for this! I'll merge the content from your version shortly, but please feel free to keep working on it. --Prosperosity (talk) 03:38, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Coincidences happen :) I got a notification to a change on the Awhitu Peninsula page I'd made, and noticed that Cornwallis Beach was redlinked, so I decided to do something about it. Your article is a lot more thorough than mine - good work :) Grutness...wha? 03:40, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

unprotect article

Hello sir,

my english is not the best as my main language is swedish and serbian, and small russian but i recently came across a project called 'verdis'. its a micronation europe. (https://verdisgov.org/)

it looks as the past of these admin protected articles were heavily messed with by supporters and non-supporters of that movement, but it looks like they gained a lot of media attention (how i heard of them) and i was wondering if it could be unprotected incase they reach even larger media? pages: Verdis and Free Republic of Verdis

i saw them on sputnik, a russian owned news station.

here some links:

in past 48 hours: https://rs.sputniknews.com/20210919/za-liberland-su-mnogi-culi-ali-izmedju-srbije-i-hrvatske-je-nikla-jos-jedna-drzava-1129955656.html https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/osnovali-drzavu-na-nasem-spornom-teritoriju-cilj-nam-je-pomirenje-naroda-1524432 https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/56208-verdis-republic https://www.b92.net/zivot/vesti.php?yyyy=2021&mm=09&dd=20&nav_id=1925054

in past: https://www.rtl.hr/buzzara/virealno/3500391/liberland-20-kako-jedan-cetrnaestogodisnjak-stvara-drzavu-izmedju-hrvatske-i-srbije/ https://likaclub.eu/cetrnaestogodisnjak-osniva-novu-drzavu-izmedu-hrvatske-i-srbije/

i didnt search much but those are what i find.

could be unprotected incase someone wants to make article of it in the future? SandroFan91 (talk) 07:17, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi SandroFan91 - it's probably better to take this up with User:NinjaRobotPirate, who is the admin who protected the page. He (or she?) is more likely to know why it was protected and whether it should be freed from protection. Grutness...wha? 08:03, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

okay. thank you for your help sir SandroFan91 (talk) 08:20, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 22

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Ironically, I was trying to correct someone else's link to the much bigger dab page Northland :). Fixed. Grutness...wha? 11:50, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Playground 52

I was just reminded that a while ago you requested that I improve Playground 52 and I agreed to do so. I apologize for it taking longer than expected, but please take a look and see if things look better to you. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:41, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

I'd completely forgotten about that. The fact that the redesign won an award is enough notability for it to stay, I'd think. Thanks :) Grutness...wha? 01:17, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Faculty in Auckland category

Hi Grutness, could I get your opinion on the container category Category:Faculty by tertiary institution in Auckland? I came across some problems when I was considering where to place Massey University staff who work in the Albany campus - they should be in this category, but placing the entire Massey category wouldn't really work for having helpful information, leaving me with a few possibilities:

• Option 1: merge the Auckland category with New Zealand. Massey isn't the only institute like this - I know Canterbury has a campus in Auckland, and UoA isn't exclusively in the Auckland Region (e.g. the Whangarei teaching campus, although I don't think we have any articles on Whangarei staff)
• Option 2: split the Massey faculty category into three sections, based on primary campus. For most universities you can argue that there's a primary campus, and for Massey this is much vaguer (centralised in PN, but the number of staff in Auckland, Wellington and PN are much more comparable in size. I bet there are even staff members who have never been to Palmy!). Option 2 would probably take a large amount of research and guesswork, and might mean I need to split other universities by location as well.

Since you made the category, do you have any thoughts or opinions on what might be the best option? --Prosperosity (talk) 22:52, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm. I hadn't considered that when I made the category, and you're right it could cause problems. The same would be true for other New Zealand centres (Otago University has campuses in Christchurch and Wellington, for instance). Personally, I'd favour splitting the university faculty categories, though that might be seen as overcategorisation. Might be worth bringing this up as a question on the talk page of WP:WPNZ. Grutness...wha? 01:48, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Thank you! Grutness...wha? 01:46, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Penny Bright Edits

Thanks for tidying up my Penny Bright edits. I shouldn't try to be so ambitious when I'm so tired! Hi from another Dunedinite. Nauseous Man (talk) 10:17, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

No problem, and thanks for adding the article. It looked more like tired editing rather than sloppy writing :) Hi from St Clair! Grutness...wha? 11:29, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Frederick Martin Christian

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A tag has been placed on Frederick Martin Christian requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 18:59, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't think a colony's Chief Magistrate will fail NN. And neither does the person who removed the speedy nomination before I got to it. A bit overzealous there, Roger? Grutness...wha? 03:56, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Breaking edits

Hello G, it appears you have recently made many breaking edits to the categories on numerous baseball and football player articles, so many that it start to look like a pattern of article vandalism. Could you please go back and undo those edits, so that other editors do not have to clean up after you? Thanks, UnitedStatesian (talk) 17:39, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi @UnitedStatesian: Other than the two copy-and-paste slip-ups you reverted (thank you), and that I have now changed to their correct new targets, can you point out any of the 3,000 similar edits I have made in the last week that constitute possible vandalism? With that many edits it's easy to let an errtor or two slip through without noticing. If you could list any you find here, I will gladly fix them. Grutness...wha? 23:27, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Not vandalism, but certainly an indication of carelessness. Here are just the first 9 additional ones that i found:

• diff
• diff
• diff
• diff
• diff
• diff
• diff
• diff
• diff

Please let me know when these are fixed; unfortunately given this error rate I now need to go through all of your edits to see if there are additional ones that are problems. Unless the above indicates a pattern to you that you can fix. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:13, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

• @UnitedStatesian: All fixed, plus one more I found. Looks like I accidentally had "baseball players" saved in my clipboard rather than "Columbus, Georgia". Given that the Columbus, Georgia category only has three new subcats that should be all of them so hopefully there's no need to hunt further. Apologies. I shouldn't bulk edit when I'm tired! Grutness...wha? 08:42, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I found two more:
• diff
• diff
  • Thanks in advance, UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:32, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
    • Done. I'f I'm tired enough to confuse Indiana and Illinois, I'm definitely too tired to be editing! Grutness...wha? 01:08, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Kaikai Beach and Heyward Point (seeking sources for draft article)

Hi. I'm currently drafting an article on Heyward Point and Kaikai Beach, in the Otago Heads. I've managed to find all kinds of fascinating stories about them -- but only on blog style websites which fail WP:RS (particularly the Geocaching website). Those websites do have a few scanty sources linked, but not enough to support anywhere near all their claims. I mean things like

• The old Heyward Point lighthouse: I don't doubt it existed, but there's nothing in any published source that I can access online
• Apparently the name "Purehurehu" has been shifted from one headland to another as a result of a cartographer's error?
• Heyward Point for a while was called "Hayward's Mistake" after Captain Richard Hayward nearly ran into it in the fog?

Google has thus far failed me, but you seem to be someone with specialist knowledge on related topics. Where would I start looking for reliable, published evidence for this sort of thing? —VeryRarelyStable 03:06, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Are you a Dunedin local? If so, both the Dunedin Public Library and Hocken have good sources for that sort of information. Sadly, a lot of my information came from my friendship with Peter Entwisle, who passed away a couple of years ago - he was both a writer and publisher with an encyclopaedic knowledge of Otago history. The only printed publication I can find to hand at home which even mentions Heyward Point does say "On the point is a solar-powered marine navigation beacon. A rusting winch is the remnant of a cable system that was used to winch ashore acetylene bottles to the previous gas-powered beacon." - which does suggest a previous light, even if not a full lighthouse (the source is Antony Hamel's (2007) Dunedin tracks and trails. Dunedin: Silver Peaks Press. p. 6.07. ISBN 978 0 473 13772 4). If you can find a copy of that book, the same section deals with the Heyward Point walking trck, and there's also a section on the Murdering/Kaikai Beach track. Sorry I can't be of any more help! Grutness...wha? 07:07, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I'm a Dunedin local, and if you're who your userpage says you are, we know each other. I'm Daniel Copeland. I think I met Peter Entwisle on a couple of occasions, but not to have in-depth conversations with. Under Alert Level 2 I don't feel I can spend the time hanging around in libraries piling up books that would be needed to find in-depth information that hasn't been put online somewhere. So it might have to wait for a while yet. But thank you for your help. —VeryRarelyStable 09:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Ha! Yes - we've been on a couple of Gregor's walks together, among other things. Actually, he might have an idea where to find some info, too. Grutness...wha? 09:24, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Another breaking edit

See this one Please fix. And brew up some coffee if tired. UnitedStatesian (talk) 19:09, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

euh. Done. Sorry! Grutness...wha? 00:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

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Nomination of Ardra (nakshatra) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ardra (nakshatra) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Overcategorizing on a massive scale

If you move any type of athletes into a category for that type of athlete from Foo, take for instance here[4], you need to do it properly. You're doing it wrong when you just move the person from baseball players from Louisiana to baseball players from New Orleans without removing Sportspeople from New Orleans from that person's page. Which is what you did with Pollet. So are you going to go back and make these fixes? I bet there are hundreds or more articles that are overcategorized now since I'm seeing the problem with New Orleans and Baton Rogue....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:09, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@WilliamJE: Yes, this situation has been deliberately done on some 7,000 articles, and for a very good reason. Category:Sportspeople from New Orleans was deliberately left on the page in addition to Category:Baseball players from New Orleans because Pollet was not just a player but also a coach. This is standard practice across recategorisation schemes such as this one, in order to still have the person searchable as a sportsman involved in other activities than simply playing a sport, and also making it easier to later recategorise if and when a Category:Baseball coaches from New Orleans category gets made (which it probably will - I'll be dealing with coach categories once I finish player ones). Do you want to remove the fact that he was a coach from New Orleans? Please don't "correct" this situation - it'll just create a huge mess of work to go through later. PS - Ironically, the majority of categorisation edits I've been doing on this project have reduced the numbers of categories on articles, so it's hardly going to result in much of an overcategorisation problem. Grutness...wha? 15:42, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@WilliamJE:. Please try reading what I wrote before doing a knee-jerk reversion of my edits. Grutness...wha? 15:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

You created the huge mess. It doesn't make any difference he was both a player and a coach. He was a baseball player. Baseball players is a subcategory of sportspeople. People entries don't go in both. Paul Groves (footballer) is both a player and a manager.(In soccer, they are called managers) He is a football player from Derby. He is in that category. Groves isn't in Sportspeople from Derby Natalia Gómez Junco is a footballer from Mexico City who is also a manager. She's in Footballers from Mexico City and isn't in Sportspeople from Mexico City It is the same with any occupation. @Liz: can you chime in....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:05, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

What I'm doing is the same as for anyone who has two different occupations - and was already the way for many of the sportspeople I've catalogues at a state level. Look at, for example, the first ten people in Category:Baseball coaches from Oklahoma. Nine of them are also in Category:Baseball players from Oklahoma, because they were both players and coaches. If any of them are from Oklahoma City, do you want me to change the player category to the city category but not acknowledge they were coaches, or change the coach category to the city and not acknowledge the player category? As things stand, I'm changing the player categories and once that's done I'll be changing the coaching categories once that task is finished (it's about 2/3 of the way through). If I did the task the way you want it done, then either these people would not be recognised as coaches or it would become a much more difficult task to go through and deal with the coach-by-city categories. Grutness...wha? 02:54, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

If I may chip in, your approach is completely logical, Grutness. Schwede66 07:54, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

No it isn't the same. Take for instance former mayor and Congressman of Footown John Jones. Footown has a politicians category. Many communities have Mayor subcategories but only if there aren't enough entries. John Jones is in Politicians from Footown not People from Footown. For a practical example, former Oregon State Senator and Bend City Council member Gordon W. McKay, is in Politicians from Bend, Oregon but not People even though he had three different political jobs. Bend doesn't have a city council members category though some cities do....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:52, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

You mean like Cath Tizard, who is in both C:Mayors of Auckland and C:Auckland City Councillors? She was a councillor who was also a mayor. She's also a person from Auckland but isn't in C:People from Auckland. Totally logically arranged. So someone from Foo who is both a basketball player and a basketball coach will eventually be in both a C:Basketball players from Foo and a C:Basketball coaches from Foo category, but not in a C:People from Foo. They should, however, stay in a C:Sportspeople from Foo category until both those other categories are created, but isn't in C:People from Foo. And that's exactly what's happening. By the time my current work is completed, they'll have that coaches category and will no longer be directly in the sportspeople category - but when you're working with 600 cities, some of which had close to 2000 articles, this all takes time. Until that happens, keeping them in the sportspeople category makes it easier for people to locate someone as a coach, if that's what they know them for - it would make no sense for them to look for a coach in a player category. By the way, a bring up again your claim that I'm overcategorising - I want through a couple of hunderd of my recent edits last night - in 60% of them I had reduced the number of categories. If you don't believe me, check all the minus signs on my recent contribution list. In a further 30% the number had stayed the same. The number of categories has only increased in 10% of those edits, and in almost all of them it is temporary until the sports coaches categories are made. Soon. Be patient. Grutness...wha? 00:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Administrators will no longer be autopatrolled

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Deletion pending for File:MartinThompsonDunedin.jpg

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Hm. Must have been lost in transit - it should have been received by now. Grutness...wha? 15:36, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Rozzie at Pisa.png

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Containerizing categories

In this edit you agreed with the nominator that these categories needed to be containerized. Can you briefly explain the value of containerizing? I've read WP:Container categories. I'm not asking for a defense, more an orientation. I don't work sufficiently in category areas to understand the nuances. A year or so ago I performed an enormous renaming of ACW era military articles/categories and this might have been suggested during the CfDs. Thanks for your Grutness. BusterD (talk) 21:03, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi BusterD. The main purpose of containerising is to stop stray articles in the main category. It's used a lot where the main category is splittable exactly into subcategories. In the case of disease-related deaths, the deaths should all be related to one or more specific diseases, so it makes sense if they're all in subcats. It's more useful to know that a person died, say, of malaria than that they died of some unspecified disease. It is possible that a person died of a disease and the exact disease is unknown, but in those cases a subcategory of "deaths from unknown disease-related causes" or similar might be appropriate.

Sometimes, containerisation is very obvious. A big project I'm currently working on is categorising sportspeople by city. The parent category "Sportspeople by city" is an obvious container because it makes more sense to categorise, say, a golfer as being from Baltimore than to categorise them as being from "a city" without saying what the city is. I hope that all makes sense! Grutness...wha? 01:49, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Creating Basketball player by city categories

If you are going to create these on a mass scale could you also please add them to WP:BASKETBALL? This can be easily done by copying and pasting "{{WikiProject Basketball}}" onto the Talk page of the new category. Ideally the project for the state the city is in would also be added but at a minimum please add to the basketball project so that the categories will show up on worklists and members of the project can maintain them. Thanks. I am sure projects of other sports you create these in would appreciate a similar step. Rikster2 (talk) 16:38, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I can do that. Thanks for the heads-up. Grutness...wha? 01:38, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Cornish emigrants

I updated some of the targets related to Cornish emigrants categories that I had entered incorrectly.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:51, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks :) Grutness...wha? 02:39, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

WP:RFO

Hello. Could you please consider the edits that I recently reverted at Ashley Biden as candidates for REVDEL under RD2? Thanks! AlexEng^(TALK) 09:35, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi @AlexEng: I'm not an oversighter, and wouldn't really know where to start with this - sorry! It definitely looks like the sort of thing which should be removed from edit historyt hough. I suggest you go here and email the details there. Someone with more experience in the area will be able to help you. Grutness...wha? 09:42, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Grutness. I had mistakenly selected "active admins" instead of "active oversighters" on the active users tool. My mistake. I don't use the email functionality of Wikipedia ƒor privacy reasons, instead relying on somewhat ambiguously worded messages to active administrators. Sorry for needlessly troubling you. AlexEng^(TALK) 09:51, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

No problem :) Grutness...wha? 10:09, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Category:Track and field athletes from San Jose, California

First off, thank you for creating the category. I wanted to discuss how much of an association and/or how specific to San Jose you are wanting to keep this category. I notice the obvious omission of Tommie Smith (originally from Lemoore High School but later a San Jose State athlete and John Carlos also from SJS. I've actually created several other SJS athlete articles. Obviously all trained in San Jose. I added Bruce Jenner, yes I know about the name change and mention it in my user page. He (at the time) notably trained there, contemporary with me. I know these people. Do they belong in this category? How about Cyndy Poor, which you already added. She trained with the Cindergals, same track about the same time as Jenner, but she went to Saratoga High School. And Francie Larrieu went to Fremont in Sunnyvale. Which would bring in Bill Green (hammer thrower). If we go to Sunnyvale, there would be Benny Brown too. But a lot of these people trained at SJS and SJCC, under the loose supervision of Bert Bonanno. Where do we draw the line? Trackinfo (talk) 07:09, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Trackinfo: Tommy Smith is missed because I haven't got that far through the "Sportpeople from..." category yet! As far as how specific, all I'm doing is going by the current categories. If someone is in "Sportspeople from San Jose, California", then I'll add a specific sport category (assuming there are ten or so people who will fit in it). I know that WikiProject Basketball is questioning exactly what link is needed to a city as well - if you look on their talk page, they've been talking about starting a discussion at WP:Categories about what connection is needed. Grutness...wha? 08:31, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

@Trackinfo: Even better issue, is Smith from San Jose? His article makes no mention of San Jose except in that his going to college there. It does mention Smith working/living in other places. Notable people section criteria says 'For "college towns" where students reside in the "town" only during their college years, it is preferred to list those students in the "Notable alumni" section of their respective college article, then add a {{See also}} in the city article "pointing" at the notable college section of the specific college article or separate notable college article.' Find a source that says he is from SJ....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:27, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

As I said, I'm just going by the categories already there. If the fault's with them, ask the person who put them there originally... they should be able to explain. Grutness...wha? 02:14, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Tommie, John Carlos and most of those pre 1980 SJS athletes were there for college. That said, other than high school, their career, particularly their top level career, essentially was over after college as it was for most "amateur" athletes of that era. You couldn't make any money after college so you had to focus your efforts on . . . a job that paid the money required to live. Some did try to extend their career afterward, but after the fist Smith and Carlos were largely persona non grata in racist America. Both did try the NFL but settled into coaching in Santa Monica and Palm Desert respectively. Interesting also, when not associated with SJS, they competed for the Santa Clara Youth Village team. During that era and for a couple of decades after it, there was no suitable training facility in the City of Santa Clara (though there was for the myriad of swimmers from that era), so they trained in San Jose. All that said, I'll add the category to people who trained in San Jose. Trackinfo (talk) 07:56, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

"Temporary Placeholders"

That is not a reason to keep the "sportspeople by city" categories once one or more specific sports sub-categories have already been added. Rikster2 (talk) 13:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

It's common practice - quite a large number of editors use the same procedure, and I have done so many times myself in the past. This is the first time that anyone has complained - probably because in the past it's been done on smaller schemes. Given that this one deals with (so far) over 11,000 edits, with a few thousand more to come, it's a little more noticeable, thats all. In any case, as I keep repeating, it's very much a temporary measure. It's currently doing no harm at all, and will soon be gone. Grutness...wha? 13:49, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

No it is not a common practice. You're overcategorizing and at least 4 more editors counting myself think so too....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

It is not common practice to leave parent categories once sub-categories have been added. And now you are starting to revert my edits so you have made it my business. Rikster2 (talk) 13:56, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I have not reverted any of your edits. I undid one, several days ago, noting that you edited in good faith. Given that you didn't undo that edit, it seemed clear that you understood my logic. And yes, it is common practice to use categories as temporary markers. By the way, at least 45 other editors have been joining in on this scheme with adding both specific sports categories and leaving temporary marker categories. Grutness...wha? 14:07, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Look at it another way. As it stands, there are three options:

1. I can carry on with my categorising. That will end up with me clearing up the "overcategorisation", as you seem to think it, and a lot of articles will be more effectively categorised.
2. The "overcategorisation" is removed by you or others. It becomes nigh on impossible for me to deal with the coach categories, ending up in you spending a lot of effort on removing categories and a lot of articles remaining incompletely categorised.
3. Persistent bickering over what is a perfectly sensible and logical method leads me to give up the whole categorisation scheme in disgust, leaving some cities categorised and others not, and annoying the WikiProjects I've got on board with the scheme.

Which is the best option of those for Wikipedia as a whole? Grutness...wha? 14:06, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

So in other words, my preferred path is "bickering," but your preferred path is "sensible and logical." Got it. News flash - my suggestion is also "sensible and logical" and in fact is backed up by guidelines. I am not going to fight over this, but you have now reverted 2 edits where I correctly removed the sportspeople categories. Stop it. Rikster2 (talk) 14:12, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I have never reverted any of your edits. I undid two, with a message saying they were clearly good faith edits, but I do not lightly revert and have not done so in your case. Learn the difference between an undo and a revert. Grutness...wha? 00:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

I undid it....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 00:07, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, as I said you still have the state basketball coach categories to work from, which would not result in a net add of categories on a page once created and replaced. Rikster2 (talk) 14:13, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

So you want me to go through state categories for basketball caches, American football coaches, baseball coaches, Canadian ootball coaches, soccer coaches, swimming coaches, golf instructors, horse trainers, boxing trainers, ice hockey claches, etc etc etc, filled with people who may or may not be from a particular city, rather than one category which has them all in one place? Have fun with that. Grutness...wha? 00:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

If I reverted every one of his overcategorizations, that would leave a trail of pages for him to add coaches too. It would be easier than sifting through Sportspeople from Chicago with its over 500 entries....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:22, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Really good question 'WikiProjects I've got on board with the scheme.' What WikiProjects are you talking about? Not Baseball, National Football League, or Golf, all three of which I'm participants at, you have done categorizing of these sportspeople, and you haven't posted to the WP talk pages. Not even once and I checked....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

• If I can chime in, I'm not sure of any WikiProject that approved the mass categorizations. I know there were a few CfDs a couple months ago that approved Basketball categories for major cities like Chicago or Los Angeles, but I would refrain from creating more categories on smaller cities like Basketball players from Dayton, Ohio or Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Honestly, it's not worth the hassle to revert, but I think you should try something else for the time. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:54, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Grutness explicitly wrote WikiProjects and CFD is not a WikiProject. There is this WikiProject discussion[5] but in no way did Grutness lay out how he would categorize coaches in any way....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:02, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

You are all bickering. Why don’t you let Grutness get on with his good work? Schwede66 16:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Merchandise giveaway nomination

A token of thanks Hi Grutness! I've nominated you (along with all other active admins) to receive a solstice season gift from the WMF. Talk page stalkers are invited to comment at the nomination. Enjoy! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} talk ~~~~~

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:50, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

How we will see unregistered users

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18:13, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Suburbs of Dunedin

I think you have probably noticed my working through the suburbs of Dunedin adding demographics and making general improvements. You seem to have been the main author on most of these. When several suburbs are covered in the same article with redirects, eg Kenmure and Bradford being included in Kaikorai Valley, I've mostly left that structure as is. Sometimes I've split those articles into new ones, as with Concord, because the fundamental character of Concord seems at odds with Burnside. I'm happy to go back and split some of the existing multi-surburb articles, or combine statistical areas in different ways, if you think that would be more appropriate.

Kew and Corstorphine are next on my list. Should I create an new article for Kew? Should I split Forbury from St Clair? Should I combine Forbury with South Dunedin instead? The three schools in South Dunedin are technically in the Forbury statistical area. The other one that's coming up: should I split Tainui, New Zealand out of Andersons Bay, and if I do, should I split Ocean Grove out of Tainui?

You or any other editor are always welcome to tweak the surrounding suburbs or any other aspect of my edits. I don't have the local knowledge so I've probably got some things wrong.

If you post messages to me on the talk pages of any of these articles, please ping me, because I don't usually put them on my watchlist.-gadfium 04:10, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi G - Forbury could be split out (it's probably more similar to Caversham than to either St Clair or South D in any case), and definitely Ocean Grove can be split - it has quite a different feel from Tainui. Tainui could probably combine with Musselburgh as easily as it could with Andy Bay; there'd be nothing wrong with having it as a separate article though. I originally only added them as redirects because there were so many of them and the boundaries aren't really that strict for the most part - also it would have led to some very small articles unless I was willing to put in the hard yards on research, and I was too lazy :) Grutness...wha? 05:02, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the advice. I take it you don't suggest Kew should be split from Corstorphine. I'll probably add demographics to them later tonight.-gadfium 05:09, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

I missed that one! It probably could be, but it wouldn't be a priority. Grutness...wha? 05:11, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Alice Spragg

Check out [[6]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryJetner (talk • contribs) 01:17, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

A bit plumper than photos I've seen of her, but not bad. Grutness...wha? 06:57, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Happy Adminship!

Thank you! Grutness...wha? 00:20, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 20

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited High country (New Zealand), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Rohan.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:59, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

File:Otagoflag.gif listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Otagoflag.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. HouseBlaster^talk 03:55, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Cafés in the Czech Republic

A tag has been placed on Category:Cafés in the Czech Republic indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:13, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Hm. Looks like someone had emptied a bunch of these categories inappropriately. All but one of the five nominated for speedy deletion have now been repopulated. Grutness...wha? 12:15, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Category:Italian Scottish footballers has been nominated for discussion

Category:Italian Scottish footballers has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. GiantSnowman 11:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

clearly an issue with the template, given the CFD link was working... GiantSnowman 11:21, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Cheers. Grutness...wha? 11:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Just added a stub template...and again fondly remembered you...I hope life treats you well. You are still going strong I see. Time flies, really. Toodle pip :). Lectonar (talk) 13:43, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that @Lectonar: yes, it's been a while since we've been in touch! I'm here on and off, when the Real World allows... then my obsessive-compulsive side comes out and I do a few thousand edits in a week :) Hope things are fine with you! Grutness...wha? 14:51, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Elridgevillmap.png

The file File:Elridgevillmap.png has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Redundant to File:Belize location map.svg which is hosted on Commons

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 09:44, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Salavat: Good Lord... is that old thing still in existence? I made it as a temporary stopgap 17 years ago! Delete at will. Grutness...wha? 11:05, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

• Haha, must of managed to slip through the cracks. 17 years just sounds like an unimaginable time frame for anything on Wikipedia. Salavat (talk) 14:33, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

New administrator activity requirement

The administrator policy has been updated with new activity requirements following a successful Request for Comment. Beginning January 1, 2023, administrators who meet one or both of the following criteria may be desysopped for inactivity if they have: Made neither edits nor administrative actions for at least a 12-month period OR Made fewer than 100 edits over a 60-month period Administrators at risk for being desysopped under these criteria will continue to be notified ahead of time. Thank you for your continued work.

22:52, 15 April 2022 (UTC)