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Repairs for Do It Yourselfers
(MF articles sub-index)
Shutters pages
Shutter cleaning jobs are very common, but as the postings below suggest, there
are more issues here than just a squirt of the right cleaning agent in the
right place. These tips will hopefully give you an idea of what is required to do
the job. For more help, check out the camera-fix mailing list (at egroups.yahoo.com).
Caveat repairer!
Steven's web page is a good first try, but not everything he does is correct
in all cases. He's right that most of these shutter problems are due to
simple stickiness. He uses automotive carb cleaner to get rid of gunk, but
that's only a good idea if it leaves no residue. I use lighter fluid for
easy stuff, and Techcessories cleaner-degreaser, an electronics cleaner from
Radio Shack. They both leave no residue. After removing the glass elements,
you can soak a shutter in lighter fluid without disassembling it.
Steven uses too heavy an oil. If any oil is to be used at all, it should be
very very light jeweler's oil. The Copal manuals state clearly that after
cleaning a Copal shutter you should use NO lubrication.
Interested persons should definitely check Ed Romney's web page.
steven T koontz wrote >As a user of old folders I have bought several oldies that had sticky >shutters.. As paying to get them repaired would be more than I paid >for them and they were broken anyway I decided to try to fix them. I >found it very easy and have "fixed" several lately and wrote a web >page decribing how I did it... very easy to do.. anyway the URL is: > >http://www.mindspring.com/~skoontz/shuttercla.htm > >hope someone finds this useful... >-- > > >steve's photography & Z car stuff @ http://www.mindspring.com/~skoontz >skoontz@mindspring.com
From: steven T koontz skoontz@mindspring.com
Newsgroups:
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Info on Cleaning Folder
Shutters
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998
As a user of old folders I
have bought several oldies that had sticky shutters.. As paying to get
them repaired would be more than I paid for them and they were broken
anyway I decided to try to fix them. I found it very easy and have "fixed"
several lately and wrote a web page decribing how I did it... very easy to
do.. anyway the URL is:
http://www.mindspring.com/~skoontz/shuttercla.htm
hope someone
finds this useful...
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "David Foy"
nomail@this_address.please
[1] Re: Shutter slow at Slow Speeds
The Copal shutter on your Yashica has three distinct speed ranges. The shutter actuation spring, unimpeded, operates at 1/500. A clockwork kicks in at 1/250 down to -- I forget --, and another one kicks in at the lowest range. The shutter may perform well in the top two even if the bottom range is wonky -- providing the slowdown is due to gumminess in the clockwork, not on the shutter blades. If you see any kind of contamination on the blades, there's trouble coming. The remedy in any case is to have the shutter cleaned, which involves very little dissembly and a solvent bath. A cleaning would be relatively inexpensive if, as it sounds, you don't have anything broken to contend with. Practice on a junk shutter hr>
From: steven T koontz skoontz@mindspring.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Info on Cleaning Folder Shutters
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998
As a user of old folders I have bought several oldies that had sticky
shutters.. As paying to get them repaired would be more than I paid
for them and they were broken anyway I decided to try to fix them. I
found it very easy and have "fixed" several lately and wrote a web
page decribing how I did it... very easy to do.. anyway the URL is:
http://www.mindspring.com/~skoontz/shuttercla.htm
hope someone finds this useful...
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "David Foy" nomail@this_address.please
[1] Re: Shutter slow at Slow Speeds
The Copal shutter on your Yashica has three distinct speed ranges. The
shutter actuation spring, unimpeded, operates at 1/500. A clockwork kicks in
at 1/250 down to -- I forget --, and another one kicks in at the lowest
range. The shutter may perform well in the top two even if the bottom range
is wonky -- providing the slowdown is due to gumminess in the clockwork, not
on the shutter blades. If you see any kind of contamination on the blades,
there's trouble coming. The remedy in any case is to have the shutter
cleaned, which involves very little dissembly and a solvent bath. A cleaning
would be relatively inexpensive if, as it sounds, you don't have anything
broken to contend with. Practice on a junk shutter first if you're going to
try it yourself.
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998
From: Dan Post dwpost@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] [Off Topic] Sticky shutter on Ensign Selfix folding
camera
Xavier;
A trick I learned years ago was to set the camera in a warm spot- on a hifi
or tv ( now- a VCR!) for a few hours. Usually the stickiness is because the
lubricant has hardened- this gentle warmth will soften it somewhat.
Then you can excercise the shutter a few times to see if the action moves
the old lubricant out of the way, and loosens the mechanism. It costs
nothing, and it has worked well on everything from Hasselblads ( I got an
80/2.8 chrome lens and shutter for $75 because it was balky- warmed it,
flexed it, and used it for almost three years before selling it!) to old
Retinas.
Give it a try. Bon chance!
A bientot,
Dan'l
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998
From: JJMcF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] [Off Topic] Sticky shutter on Ensign Selfix folding
camera
you write:
- should I continue operating the shutter until it is soft and open and
close regularly?
Never had any luck with this technique and doesn't seem to make much sense
mechanically. Problem usually is dirt or deteriorated lubricants in the
shutter that foul up the very close tolerances in the mechanism. Cleaning
is the answer--sometimes a few drops of naphtha (lighter fluid) in the
mechanism does the trick. Don't get the lens surfaces dirty--best to
unscrew the lens elements before doing this.
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998
From: Stephen Moss smoss@StThomasU.ca
To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu
Subject: Cleaning shutters
What worked for me... for those that don't want to handle solvents and
want an excellent cleaning for their shutters.
I removed the shutter from the camara, removed the lenses and took the
back off the shutter to expose the clockwork mechanism. Took the
stripped shutter to a local watch repair who still repairs mechanical
watches. He put the shutter in his multi-bath ultrasonic watch
cleaner/lubricator machine. 20 minutes and $10 later I had a clean
shutter lubricated to fine watch standards (minimum lubrication).
Final results were excellent.
Stephen Moss
[Ed. note: update regarding the above notes:]
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001
From: Stephen Moss smoss@StThomasU.ca
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Shutter cleaning
Please append the following to my email suggestion in:
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/cleanshutter.html
After about three years I have discovered that there is a trace of
what I must assume is watch oil showing on the aperture leaves.
The shutter still is just fine in operation BUT I would now recommend
that anyone using this technique to clean shutters have the shutter
pulled from the machine BEFORE any of the oil baths and hand
lubricate according to manufacturer's specifications.
I am very sorry if anyone has been inconvenienced by this cleaning
technique and that they will now have to reclean the shutter to
remove what may be an excess of oil.
Yours Eating Crow
Stephen Moss
[Ed. note: see also repair tools and tips
pages for related notes etc.]
From: cammedic@aol.com (CAM MEDIC)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Sticky diaphram quick fix?
Date: 13 Jun 1998
There is no quick fix. The lens needs to be disassembled and the aperture
cleaned. Its likely that you have a bit of grease on the blades. Old timers
that had this problem with their view camera shutters would put graphite
on the blades to make them work smoothly. Wrong answer, graphite powder +
grease=mess. Take the lens to a good repair shop and have them clean it for
you.
Good Luck
Kevin
rec.photo.equipment.large-format
From: "Bob Salomon" bobsalomon@mindspring.com
[1] Re: spanner wrench
Date: Fri Jun 19 1998
You can order the Rodenstock Lens Wrench from any dealer in the U.S. It fits
0, 1 and all 3 shutters and should be under $20.00
PLEASE ADDRESS ALL FUTURE E-MAIL TO ME AT:
bobsalomon@mindspring.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Bronice EC sticky shutter fix
From: butkusmi@postoffice.ptd.net (Michael butkus)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998
I wrote to this group about my Bronica EC requiring a long time the
first time I shoot off a shot and still a small pause after that. I got
a response from a reader to check the rubber mirror stop.
Yep.. the soft rubber mirror stop was gummy.
I tried to clean it but no good.
I took scotch tape (just wide enougth to cover it but long enought to
wrap it around once) and cover the sticky rubber stop.
Perfect... no wait on the shutter.
The tape sticks very well to the sticky rubber stop.
I would try electrical tape but the thickness worried me.
A no cost fix! Now if someone can tell me what to clean the oil
off of my diaphram of my 75mm lens.
Getting the diaphram out is easy.
From: "Mike" NEDSNAKE@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: Bronice EC sticky shutter fix
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998
Michael butkus wrote in message ...
SNIP
>Now if someone can tell me what to clean the oil >off of my diaphram of my 75mm lens. >Getting the diaphram out is easy.
Remove the blades and clean each on with a good quality electronic
degreaser, I use Electo-Wash 2000 in my shop. Don't forget to clean ALL
the diaphram parts.
Mike
MF service
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] taking apart heidosmat
you wrote:
>Hi all, > I was giving my Rollei Automat 4 an overhaul/cleaning last night, (ie. >slow shutter speeds sticking, timer sticking, etc.) when I was trying to >get apart the heidosmat viewing lens to clean the fungus and fogging off >on the inner surfaces. It came out of the front plate easily, however, >the whole lens cell refuses to come apart. It looks like it's made of >two pieces, the black upper tube and lower brass tube, which look to be >theaded and cemented together. Can this lens assembly be taken apart? >and any recommendations as to how? > >Thanks, >-- >-- >Vincent Chan e-mail: vhchan@me.uvic.ca >University of Victoria web: http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~vhchan/ >
The ones I've cleaned were on cameras with Schneider lenses, they may not
all be the same. These have a very small set screw in the side of the
barrel which needs to be loosened or removed in order to unscrew the
barrel. Its very small and easy to miss.
When you take the glass out be very careful to note the way the center
element faces, it is nearly the same on both surfaces but makes a big
difference in performance if it is in backwards. Also carefully note the
positions and orientation of the spacers, it is very important they go in
just as they came out.
I've found a few of these lenses that had what appeared to have oil
droplets on their inner surfaces. They cleaned off fine with plain lens
cleaning fluid.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998
From: Delvaux Koen Koen.Delvaux@ntnet.atea.be
Subject: [Rollei] Rolleiflex shutter blade cleaning
Hello List,
It's been 2 years, and I'm glad to see the Rollei list is still alive
and kicking !
During this time, I bought myself a Rolleiflex with (defective) light
meter, Planar 3.5 lens, non working self release timer, slow shutter
speeds that where off by 400%, fast shutter speeds that where off by
100% and cosmetically not what you would call mint condition. But when
the seller trew in an old Gossen lightmeter for the total sum of 10.000
Bfr / 285 $, I was sold. It was the Planar lens that did it for me...
I did manage to repair a few things myself:
- I repaired the self release timer (it just was re-assembled wrong by
the previous amateur that had opened the camera)
- I cleaned the speed escapement item (for slow shutter speeds)
- In trying to tighten the spring for the fast shutter speeds, I broke
off a lever. After carefull investigation I found a way in reassembling
the shutter release mechanism so that it is functional again, however I
lose the difference between bulb and X synchro (computerised
measurements show that my flash now triggers near the end of the
exposure, still enough time for a fast portable flash but not enough for
a studio flash. I don't have the latter, so I don't care. I have
somthing like "second-curtain-flash-sync" now, so actually it's a
feature ;-)
The above leaver that broke off was only a minor disaster compared to
the stupid thing I did next:
After cleaning and reassembling the speed escapement item, I had the
silly idea that it might be good to grease it a little. With the item in
place, I dropped some sewing machine oil on it, and the worst possible
thing happend:
The oil dripped through the shutter mechanism right onto the shutter
blades ! I tried to clean them as good as possible with methanol on a
cloth, but there was not much I could do without removing the shutter
blades.
Afterwards, I measured with my computer that the 1/500 sec. speed has
dropped to 1/60. Up till today, this still is the case. The camera makes
very sharp pictures, I really love that camera. There are only a few
things I would like to change to it:
- faster shutter than 1/60
- brighter viewfinder image (beatie screen, resilvered mirror)
- clean lens (for contrast)
- adjust focusing and planparrellellism (this is only slightly off)
The last tree things, I think I can handle. But for the first one, I
need help from the list. Here are my questions:
- how to remove/replace the shutter blades, what material is needed, how
big is the chance I will brake/bend a shutter blade?
- is it possible to replace them with shutter blades from another
Rolleiflex/cord model? Maybe replace the whole shutter ?
- can I soak the blades in methanol to clean them ?
- does the shutter needs greasing (no, not with oil ;-) after cleaning ?
- if I have to open the lens completley, will it be assembled correctly
again if I line up the sealing marks or does one need optical testing
equipement before taking apart and reassembling a Planar lens ?
- If my shutter is cleaned, what is the chance my speeds will be OK
again ?
- Is it possible that after cleaning, there is another variable (perhaps
the spring, which is after all 50 years old) makes it impossible to
achieve 1/500 sec. ever again?
As a last question: what would be a normal price to pay if I wanted to
buy a Rolleiflex Planar or Xenotar 2.8, 1/500 sec. with working
(accurate) lightmeter, completley rehauled and technically fine but
cosmetically not something collectors would like to put in their display
case.
greets,
Koen
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998
From: Tony Zoccolillo tonyzoc@dreamscape.com
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rolleiflex shutter blade cleaning
Don't disassemble the shutter, you'll be luck to get it back together right.
Completely remove the shutter from the camera body, remove both front and
rear lens groups, and submerse the shutter in methanol or, if you can get
it, freon. Another great solvent is sold by Fargo Enterprises
(www.fargo-ent.com) called Asahiklin AK225 for about $12 for 8oz spray can.
You will need to flush the shutter well. Use a blowdrier to ensure all
water (which can be in the solvent) is evaporated. Keep working the
shutter, and flushing, so you loosen any particulates or oil which is
impeding the blade movement.
Personally, if the rest of the camera is in decent shape and the lens in
clean and clear, I would send this out for repair at this point. Buy a beat
Rolleicord to practice on, and leave the "Planars" alone until your sure you
know what your doing. I bought a Syncro-Compur shutter at a camera show for
$15. It was a view camera shutter with no lens and the shutter bladed had
rust. I played with that shutter until I understood all it's mechanisms and
how to clean it to work properly. Additionally, I wouldn't mess with
shutters unless you have a way of testing the speeds....like a digital
tester.
regards,
Tony Zoccolillo
From: "Tony Zoccolillo" tonyzoc@dreamscape.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Repairing a Rolleiflex - help needed!
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998
>I need some help repairing a Rolleiflex Standard (1932-1934). > >Problem: Compur shutter works always at same speed with different > settings. > >I removed lens board and view lens, but I am not able to remove > the taking lens/shutter! >Levers for shutter speed/aperture settings circumvent its removing, > so there must be a way to remove/lift the front plate > (Franke & Heidecke - Braunschweig; Compur). >How can this be done? > >Someone able to help? >Thanks. > >Regards > A. Irmer
I have never worked on one this old, only Automats and newer, but if it's
anything like an Automat, here's how I get to the shutter:
1) Remove the leather carefully with a sharp thin-bladed screw driver. Some
of the leather on these old Rolleis can be difficult to remove, especially
if it's been glued several times and with the wrong kind of glue.
2) Unscrew the several brass screws under the leather.
3) Unscrew the nut on the release button (if any) and the self timer button
(if any).
4) The levers coming out from the shutter usually have either cutouts in the
front cover for them to slip through, or have the little button on the end
of the lever will unscrew leaving the lever able to slip through the slot it
protrudes through. You should be able to lift or maneuver the front cover
to get it off.
5) Unscrew the taking lens front cell. This is usually done by hand. Don't
use a wrench or pliers. It you can't get it with your fingers, use a rubber
stopper.
6) The entire shutter is probably mounted on the rack/focus system with 4
screws with spacers under them. Don't loose these spacers and remember
where each one came from.
7) Once you get the shutter away from the body, unscrew the rear lens group.
8) Remove the front cover of the shutter. You may have to remove a screw or
turn it 90 degrees to get a locking collar unscrewed.
9) Once inside the shutter, the most likely reason your shutter fires at
one speed is that the escapement gears are stuck or gummed up and they
aren't moving from their uncocked position. Use a solvent like Freon (or a
substitute) to flush the shutter and get all the gears free to move. Only
lubricate, with a fine watch oil like NyOil, the axles of moving gears. Use
oil sparingly if at all.
10) good luck
11) Tony Zoccolillo
From: "Michael A. Covington" covington@mindspring.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Technique for lubricating a diaphragm
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998
I've just repaired two lenses (Takumar 135/2.5 and Zeiss Flektogon 35/2.4)
that had sticky diaphragms. Here's how I did it:
(1) Invariably the diaphragm has some oil on it. I got rid of this by
repeatedly wetting it with isopropyl alcohol, soaking it up with a Kimwipe,
and opening and closing the diaphragm repeatedly.
(2) Graphite is the only suitable lubricant, acc. to Tomosy's book. Here's
how I apply it:
(a) Take a pencil (graphite, right?) and completely fill in a small area on
a piece of paper.
(b) Apply the pencil-marked side of the paper to the (closed) diaphragm and
move it around a little with a gentle wiping motion.
This gets an almost microscopic amount of graphite on the diaphragm --
enough to do some good. I've heard people advocate making light pencil
marks on the blades, but this seems to work better.
--
Michael A. Covington / AI Center / The University of Georgia
http://www.ai.uga.edu/~mc http://www.mindspring.com/~covington
From: "Mike" NEDSNAKE@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: Technique for lubricating a diaphragm
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998
Excuse me........graphite? Those blades should be dry with no lubrication
on the blades at all.
Mike Jenkins
Over 20 years servicing medium format systems
From: "Michael Covington" mc@ai.uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Technique for lubricating a diaphragm
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998
Mike wrote in message ...
>Excuse me........graphite? Those blades should be dry with no lubrication >on the blades at all.
Tomosy's book recommends tiny (I do mean *tiny*) quantities of graphite for
lubricating diaphragms. And I do mean an invisible quantity of graphite, a
barely detectable trace. It seems to work. As you say, the main challenge
is generally to get rid of any oil that is already there; cleaner is better.
(And finding out where it came from and whether any more is going to flow in
from the same place.)
From: "skgrimes" skgrimes@ma.ultranet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Unsticking a shutter.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999
No. Some of the mechanism, after disassembly can be cleaned in the
ultrasonic cleaner. Ultrasonic cleaning can, in some circumstances etch
some parts and damage them. Ultrasonic cleaning is *not* a substitute for
disassembly.
And look, I don't mean to belabor the point but the contaminants involved
in "dip cleaning" do not come from the cleaner/solvent. There are lots
and lots of solvents that don't leave any residue *on their own* The
residue comes from the mechanism itself, not the solvent. And it doesn't
take much residue to screw things up. Yes, I suppose that theoretically
you can dilute and change the solvent enough times that the residue
becomes negligible, but as a practical matter this doesn't happen.
So, in my experience, "residue free cleaners" are misleading because it
causes you to hope that it will make the oils and greases *not in the
solvent originally* somehow disappear. (Sort of like the time you waste
trying to patch a car muffler before replacing it)
SKG
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
From: colyn.goodson@airmail.net (Colyn)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Unsticking a shutter.
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999
"Mike" NEDSNAKE@email.msn.com wrote:
>various parts can and do >wear out.
I agree.. Most repairs I have encountered were simply sticky shutters
because of lack of use.. The camera sits for extended periods of time
and the lube gums up..... Actually I have never come across a worn out
retard mechanism... The only problem I have encountered with this part
is a sheared pivit arm shaft due to changing shutter speeds after
cocking the shutter.. All cameras should have been built like the
Leica in this respect since the mechanism work oppisite....
>The problem with using lighter fluid is that it leaves an oil residue behind >that can cause problems. >Mike
Again I agree.. I use either carbon tet (note: this is an extremely
dangerous chemical which has been outlawed for private use) or Fargo
Enterprise's shutter cleaner... http://www.fargo-ent.com Neither
cleaner leaves a residue.......
From: "skgrimes" skgrimes@ma.ultranet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Re: Unsticking a shutter.
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999
Although there are those who occasionally get lucky the method of dipping
a shutter in solvent (any solvent including mysterious secret miracle
solvents) does not work. All the efforts at different oils and
inspections for wear in the pivots etc is an entertaining sport which will
probably not repair the mechanism. What happens with solvent dip cleaning
is that the contaminant schmutz/grease/whatever which was causing some
part to stick is not removed but is actually thinly diluted and spread
throughout the mechanism. So that a mechanism which was dirty in some
parts and clean in others is now evenly dirty all over.
In this specific case what happens when the lighter fluid dries out is
that the remaining grease causes the shutter blades to adhere to one
another and/or otherwise bind up.
In halfway/amateur repairs its best to:
1. Try just a drop or two of solvent on the star/pallet mechanism
first. Then if that doesn't ----
2. Remove the slow governor from the shutter and
dip/solvent/compressed air clean just that mechanism.
3. Taking copious notes/ digital photos and/or using a duplicate
sample shutter, disassemble the shutter to clean the parts.
Once a shutter has been solvent dip cleaned and on top of that had its
other parts filed, bent, greased and twisted to try to compensate for
damage thus done it is usually no longer practical to repair, even by an
experienced skilled mechanic.
--
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999
From: Konstantin Levay klevay@chroma.med.miami.edu
Subject: [KOML] Cleaning the shutter: Update.
I couldn't even expect before that cleaning the shutter (if nothing is
brocken) is so easy to perform. And after Douglas Braun shared some of his
previous experience, it took me only about 15 minutes to do the job. The
hardest part was to find a spanner wrench (finally, I borrowed one from the
local camera repair shop) and a lighter fluid.
As for the repair manual, I found one also (70 pages for $15). Thanks to
everyone offered a copy anyway.
I have another question. How do you fit a roll of 120 onto 8x10 proof sheet?
Kostya Levay
U of Miami
From: "Stephe" stephe@pipeline.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: CLA was Re: "high-end" folder clones:
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999
Well while we're on this subject, if you got a sticky shutter on
an old cheapo folder, try the cleaning technique on this page..
http://stephe_2.tripod.com/shuttercla.htm
Cleaned a bunch of old shutters doing this and all worked fine
after a simple clean-lube.. Most of the time a CLA on these old
folders costs more than they are worth so they never get used..
Worth a try and like I said, I've fixed a BUNCH like this..
Stephe
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] shutter cleaning
you wrote:
>Hi there, >please forgive me for not contributing to this Cosina debate. > >> >The gear mechanism on the upper part of the shutter is held by two screws. >It seems possible to loosen these screws and nudge the gear mechanism (left >side) farther from >the center or closer to it. This would affect on the slower speeds. Are >there things >calibrated this way? Any advise appreciated. > >regards, > Jakob S.
The gear assembly is moved so that 1/10th second is accurate. That is
about the only adjustment in the shutter. At the factory the speeds were
set by adjusting the cam surface on the speed ring. Its best to leave it
alone. The main spring will have lost some strength over time so all the
speeds will be off a little in most shutters.
The little shutter tester sold by Calumet Photo is very useful. The last
time I looked it was about $80US. It can be used on nearly any shutter
including the focal plane shutters of 35mm cameras. However, it measures
total open time for a small area so will read slow for between-the-lens
shutters at their highest speeds. Most shutters are calibrated to read
_effective_ time at the largest stop. For Compur shutters this will be
about 80 percent of the reading the tester will give you.
You can get a reprinted Compur factory manual from John S. Craig at
http://www.craigcamera.com
There is also a good section on Rollei shutters in _Rollei Technical
Report_ Claus Prochnow. This book is in both German and English. Its
available from a number of book dealers who specialize in photo books and
probably from Amazon.com
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
[Ed. note: note WARNING about ACETONE!!!]
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
From: dickburk@ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
jess4203@aol.com (Jess4203) wrote:
>This may bring a flurry of protest, but if you are careful (check what the >blades are made of --metal is safe), you can bathe the whole shutter in acetone >and the accumulated gunk and ill advised lubricants will come out. It might be >a good idea to take off the face plate and blow the whole thing dry after >draining. This worked for me on an old Ilex 3X. Some shutters are meant to >fun dry, others might benefit after cleaning from a small, small drop of a very >light oil on the pivot pins in the escapement gear train. Obviously, if there >is paint lettering or something else soluble in the acetone, forebear. >Sometimes you have bought a shutter which doesn't warrant a repair bill, and >this is a strategy for those times. > >HTH, >Roy
NO! NOT ACETONE! Acetone is a rather non-selective solvent which
attacks all sorts of plastics and paint. It will take the anti-
reflection paint off the inside surfaces of the shutter and may do
other damage.
Lighter fluid is Naptha, which is safe for most stuff used in
shutters. Trichlor was the best but is not available. Very pure
Isopropyl alcohol can also be used but will leave a residue if not so
pure.
Another solvent to absolutely avoid is MEK which will dissolve
rubber. Clean an old large size Ilex shutter in MEK and you will have
no shutter or diaphragm blades left.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
From: Marv Soloff msoloff@worldnet.att.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
LoveThePenguin wrote:
> Is there an on-line source for information about > Cleaning a LF shutter (specifically Rapax)? > Thanks > Collin
Just for the halibut, and before this thread gets out of hand, both
Thomas Tomosy and Joe Lippincott recommend removing both lenses (using a
rubber stopper of adequate width - no wrenches of any kind) and
injecting a quantity of common lighter fluid (I happen to use Zippo
brand) into the shutter. Work the shutter at all speeds, re-inject the
lighter fluid as needed. Air dry and reassemble the lenses. That
should clean it out thoroughly. It is necessary to remove the lenses
because lighter fluid MAY attack the coatings. I have used this method
to clean many sticky or dirty Graflex shutters.
This is not for the novice and your results may vary. A competant camera
repair shop generally charges $100 for a shutter CLA - you may want to
go that route.
Regards,
Marv
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
From: dickburk@ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
LoveThePenguin dpcwilbur@my-deja.com wrote:
>Is there an on-line source for information about >Cleaning a LF shutter (specifically Rapax)? >Thanks >Collin > >-- >*** >
I am unaware of any on-line material on Rapax or other shutters. The
Rapax is a very good shutter made by Wollensak. Generally shutters can
be cleaned with minimal disassembly by using naptha (Ronsonol or
similar) and canned air. I used to recommend 1,1,1, Trichloroethane
but its no longer available. Ronsonol lighter fluid seems to be pure
enough not to leave a residue and won't attack most plastics or
paints.
It should be blown out of the shutter with canned or other
compressed air.
Where some lubrication is necessary a very light oil can be used in
tiny amounts. Watch oil is ideal but Nyoil or the very light LeBell
oil available from model railroad shops works well. Often, if shutters
are really clean they will run dry.
Sometimes, if a shutter is simply sticking at low speeds a touch of
solvent on the retarder gear train will unstick it.
A proper CLA is better but often such makeshifts work very well.
The Rapax shutter, also sold as the Graphex shutter by Graflex, is
rather complex inside, if you get into it be careful of stuff popping
out.
I thought I had seen a reprinted factory repair manual for Rapax but
couldn't find one in a web search and don't myself have one.
A Calumet shutter tester is a necessity IMHO for anyone using older
shutters (most LF folks). They are about $80 US and a bargain. Very
easy to use and will measure anything from 35mm focal plane shutters
to #5 Ilex Universals. They will also measure effective strobe time
over a rather wide range. They are about the size of an exposure meter
and run on a 9V battery.
Since many older shutters have weak springs they run slow at the
higher speeds. Provided the speed is consistent it doesn't matter too
much as long as you know what it is, hense my recommendation.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000
From: "Nicholas O. Lindan" nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
Someone in the UK, in acute sphincterismus, spake:
> No we won't .....
'Tis that the Royal We? Who knows, maybe the Royal wee is good for
cleaning...
In the USA 1, 1, 1, Trichloroethane is readily available at most hardware
and paint stores. Sunyside chemical sells it under the "Carbo-Chlor"
brand name.
For shutter cleaning I'll throw in with Ed Romney, though - Lighter Fluid
is the stuff of choice. This is available everywhere 24/7 - and requires
no permission slip.
Trichlor really cools as it evaporates and this leaves blobs of condensed
water on TPTBC (the part to be cleaned). I don't know if it is the action
of this water, but TPTBC never seems to be as clean as when washed in
lighter fluid and hung to dry.
Lighter fluid is probably nicer (like comparing a Civil War minnie ball
to a 45 hollow point, I admit) to life than trichlor. And it seems less
likely to melt TPTBC into a sticky gooey mess.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio nolindan@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000
From: dickburk@ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
Frank Di Marzio frank@trinity.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
>Richard Knoppow wrote: > >> I used to recommend 1,1,1, Trichloroethane >> but its no longer available. > >Hi Richard et al., > >This stuff can sometimes be obtained from Universities. A physics >department dealing with optics research (or even the chemistry department) >would probably give you a small amount if you asked nicely and explained >what you intended to do with it. > >Frank
Frank, my source for stuff like this is Tri-S Sciences in Burbank
CA., about a half hour drive from here. They stock all sorts of stuff
in small amounts. They cater to schools and to the motion picture
special effects people. They know me. Trichlor is simply too much of
an envriomental hazard for them to handle it. There is a related
degreaser, also sometimes called trichlor, it is Trichloroethylene.
Its a carcinogen and also a hazard. Not good stuff to have anound with
pretty good methods of keeping it out of the air.
Fortunately, there are other materials which are safer and work
about as well. Reagent grade Methyl and Isopropyl alcohols, naptha
(sold as lighter fluid and cleaning fluid) are all pretty good
degreasers. Naptha is notoriously inflamable so must be handled with
due care.
I am enough of an envrionmentalist myself to realize the bans on
these materials have good reasons although it may be frustrating not
to have old favorites around. I could probably get the stuff somewhere
but prefer not to.
The problem with understanding environmental hazards is that the
final damage may be several steps removed from the original material
so people don't believe the damage is occuring.
So, how come the trees around here look droopy? Smog, brother, smog.
Cars are a convenience, trees keep us alive. Guess which one you
should choose?
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000
From: "Wayne D" wdewitt@snip.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
Di-chlorinated cleaners are still available. They are found in sprays for
cleaning electronics (most notably "tuner cleaner"), they behave the same
as the tri-chlors (TE, TF, TM, etc...) they just are not as aggressive.
Unless you can get Isopropanol I would stay away from Isopropyl alcohol,
the "denaturing" chemicals will leave a residue).
Wayne
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000
From: dickburk@ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
....
Ethyl alcohol is the one usually found with denaturants in it. Ethyl
is drinking alcohol. The denaturants are so it can be sold for
commercial/industrual purposes without paying liquor tax on it. No one
cares if you get drunk just so long as you pay the tax.
Isopropyl is available in very pure form. Its the stuff rubbing
alcohol is made from. Rubbing alcohol is 70% water so is not a good
degreaser. Drugstores around here carry 91% (as a disinfectant for
giving shots) which works for some things, but has too much water for
use as a film cleaner. For that Kodak recommends 97% or better.
Isopropyl absorbs water from the atmosphere so its hard to package it
at more than about 91%.
Helge Naried says that Methyl alcohol is now the solvent of choice
for degreasing optical parts. It used to be reagent grade Acetone.
Methyl alcohol is one of the denaturants used in denatured alcohol
(along with even nastier stuff). Its the stuff that made people go
blind during prohibition. If you don't drink it its OK.
Some medical alcohol is pure Ethyl alcohol, the drinking variety. In
many places you have to have a permit to buy it, not because its
dangerous, but because you might be making Vodka out of it.
....
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000
From: "richard evans" richard@katsika.clara.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning/Trichlor
The thinners for Tipp-Ex correcting fluid is
1,1,1-Trichlorethane.
I presume you have this stuff in the USA.
....
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000
From: dickburk@ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning/Trichlor
....
That's the stuff. It used to be readily available in spray cans for
clening electronic equipment, tape heads, etc. It turns out to be a
serious environmental hazard so its very difficult to get and
expensive. While it works very well there are other cleaners which
also work well and are more friendly to the environment.
Trichlor replaced some other much more hazardous materials for
degreasing and film cleaning. At one time carbon tetrachloride was the
solvent of choice for these purposes. Its very nasty stuff, a
carcinogen and worse, very good to avoid.
I've found that lighter fluid (naptha) and isopropyl alcohol serve
for most purposes. Be careful of naptha since it is very imflamable,
being related to gasoline. Kodak now recommends _very_ pure Isopropyl
alcohol (97%) for cleaning film.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000
From: kahheng@pacific.net.sg (Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
....
This is my experience from having tinkered with 4 sticky shutters:
I tried the lighter fluid method extensively and what I discovered with
the shutters that I used it on is that once the lighter fluid evaporates,
the sticky problem returns. And this is like within a week. Not good for
an end user, but good for the salesperson in a photo store.
Guess what? I discovered that the best solvent is none other than the very
humble, very available............. WD-40. The trick is to squirt as teeny
weeny little as possible. Works a heckuva lot better than Ronsonol for me.
6 mths so far and no problems. I'd suggest you air out the shutter for 24
hrs before you remount the lens groups. Darn thing smells funny.
I would imagine that contact cleaner should work pretty good too. But
you'd still need to re-lube?
Then, for shutter blades that get sticky, I can't recommend 1,1,1
Trichloro any more highly. It's the cleanest solvent for shutter blades I
have come across. I can still get it as Liquid Paper Correction Fluid
Thinner. You might be able to find this as well? The second best cleaner
for this purpose is plain alcohol - as pure as possible. Second by a long
shot though.
Word of caution:
Unless you're truly mechanically inclined or have worked extensively with
small watch movements before, try not to take a shutter apart. It can be
disastrous. Things might fly out or you could lose parts or break things
or, hmm, not be able to reassemble the shutter again.
Fortunately, most sticky shutter problems do not require taking the
mechanism apart (though a true CLA with a wunder-technician like SK Grimes
would be best for this end! The guy's quality of work is second to none.)
Regards,
K H Tan
[Ed. note: another WARNING about WD-40 and Kerosene...]
Date: 25 Nov 2000
From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
Tan kahhengDELETETHIS@pacific.net.sg wrote:
>Guess what? I discovered that the best solvent is none other than the very >humble, very available............. WD-40.
WD-40 is just kerosene. Reasonably pure kerosene (JP4 or "Jet-A" are one
very cheap source of very pure kerosene) in an eyedropper is one cheap
replacement for watch or light gear oil.
The downside to these oils is that they're fairly acidic and using them
at all is bad for the longetivity of the shutter. I believe there are
some very expensive synthetic oils used in various specialty applications
which are ester-based and neutral-pH.
--
Thor Lancelot Simon
tls@rek.tjls.com
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000
From: Marv Soloff msoloff@worldnet.att.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
...
The problem with WD-40 is that it traps moisture. Better to use the CRC
brand analog which does not.
Regards,
Marv
[Ed. note: More WARNINGS about WD-40 and kerosene...]
From: dickburk@ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000
.....
WD-40 and Kerosine oxidize and get gummy with time. WD-40 is useful
as a penetrating lubricant to un-stick stuck parts, but not as a
general lubricant. It also leaves a residue which would be fatal to
shutter and diaphragm leaves.
I've seen old articles recommending Kerosine as a subsitute for
watch oil. Its nothing of the sort.
Shutters should be cleaned with a fairly selective degreaser
(meaning one which will dissolve the oils and greases in it but not
the paint or any plastic parts). Tricholor was excellent in this
regard but is hard to find now, as I've mentioned before.
Lighter fluid seems to work well. Naptha is, however, a fire hazard
and should be handled accordingly. Ronsonol seems to evaporate without
any residue. Test other brands before using them.
Many shutters will run without lubricant if really clean. I was told
by Ilex, when they were still making shutters, that Ilex shutters were
intended to run without lubricant. I fine mine are more consistent
that way.
I was also told by the US distributor of Compur shutters, a few
years ago, that they were recommending the use of minimum lubricant
and running dry except for a very light touch of a Molykote grease on
spiral type main springs. A very minimum amount of light, non-gumming,
lubricant is sometimes necessary on the bearings of retarder gear
trains.
If you don't have the proper watchmaker's tools, it can be applied
with the end of a sharp toothpick, or a very fine brush, or the tip of
a "DuMont" style tweezers. Oil can be picked up with tweezers by
keeping the ends slightly separated, and deposited where you want it.
The shutter blades and diaphragm leaves should be completely free of
residue. Any residue on shutter blades will cause drag from friction
or viscous damping, which will slow down the high speeds.
There may be environmentally friendly solvents available for watch
and clockmakers. I haven't explored this, but the requirements are
very similar.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
From: mr500cm@pipeline.com (Mr500CM)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Shutter Cleaning
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000
For what it's worth, I've clean a load of old Graphlex shutters and
brought the dead back to life. After removing all the glass and
opening up the shutter, a few blasts of ether (use only in a well
ventalated area!) will break up almost any gunked up shutter. I use
auto starting fluid, which can be found in any auto supply store. Work
the shutter to make sure its free, and hit it again unitill the ether
runs out clear. You'll see all the gunk run out of it. Let it dry out
the use a little graphite ( the key word is a "little") on the gear
train so it will run smooth. You can use a fine oil such as NYOIL, but
I have found that graphite works best and shutters won't freeze up in
cold weather. If you use NYOIL remember that Less is More. Meaning go
easy with it.
Last but not least WD40 is great for household and auto uses, but it
has no place in or on a camera.
Lance
End of Page
Broken Links:
Cleaning Camera Shutters (Steve Koontz)
page was at http://www.mindspring.com/~skoontz/shuttercla.htm