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photograph by Sandy Nicholson

The Other Darwin

The nineteenth-century naturalist gets emotional

by Mark Czarnecki

photograph by Sandy Nicholson

Published in the September 2008 issue.  » BUY ISSUE     

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Darwin’s time has come again. Heralded by new biographies and editions of his works, a dual anniversary looms: 2009 will mark 200 years since his birth, and 150 years since the publication of On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection. Like Marx and Freud, the other towering nineteenth-century humanists whose names are dropped in the same breath as his, he embedded in our world view fundamental concepts that once embraced will not let go. But unlike the variants of Marxist and Freudian thought that have launched a thousand experiments (not all seaworthy), evolution is accepted as fact, not theory, at least as far as biology is concerned. And with biology brought to heel, evolutionists have been hard at work figuring out how and why humans behave and think the way they do, both as individuals and as societies.

For more photos by Sandy Nicholson, see our online exclusive gallery “Second Place Finishes”.
Evolution’s advance upon other disciplines would come as no surprise to Darwin. The recent exhibit at the Royal Ontario Museum, titled Darwin: The Evolution Revolution, revealed him as an indefatigable scientific researcher, a loving paterfamilias, and a country gentleman with a Renaissance passion for learning. A graceful and persuasive writer, he published more than a dozen books on life forms from barnacles to orchids, in addition to the classics, On the Origin of Species, and The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex (1871). He was also a keen observer of the Industrial Revolution’s impact on those less privileged than himself. Driven by a strong social conscience, he hoped that ultimately evolution would not only explain but improve the human condition.

Darwin’s concern with breaking the manacles of the Industrial Revolution was shared by many of his contemporaries, including social philosophers such as Herbert Spencer, who coined the phrase “survival of the fittest.” But Darwin’s true love was biology, and once Spencer and other activists took evolution under their wing he was content to support their efforts, at least in principle. “In the future,” he wrote in Origin, “I see open fields for far more important researches. Psychology will be securely based on the foundation already well laid by Mr. Herbert Spencer, that of the necessary acquirement of each mental power and capacity by gradation [evolution]. Much light will be thrown on the origin of man and his history.”

The classic view of evolution is that random alterations in the biology of individuals make some more adaptable than others to their changing environment. These adaptive traits are “selected,” and the fittest survive in succeeding generations until, eventually, a new species evolves. Evolutionary psychology takes evolution one step further: not only the body of Homo sapiens, but the human mind as well has been shaped by this process. How we think and feel has evolved over millennia, stretching back to our prehistory on the African savannah, and those ancient patterns stay with us, despite the cultural overlay of recorded history and the wide spectrum of individual difference.

Unfortunately, Spencer and the “social Darwinists” ended up hijacking evolutionary psychology and leading it down a garden path quite foreign to Darwin. In On the Origin of Species, he’d shown that biological evolution most often followed a long and unpredictable trajectory, but the social Darwinists believed a society could evolve in the span of a lifetime if superior individuals were allowed free rein to exercise their natural gift for survival at the expense of their inferiors. Identifying and encouraging these superior elements was the challenge of eugenics, an offshoot of social Darwinism founded by Francis Galton, Darwin’s cousin. Eugenics quickly acquired a racial tinge, and it needed only the revelation of Mendel’s genetic discoveries at the turn of the twentieth century to stray disastrously into sterilization and similar abuses. Unjustly but inevitably, eugenics dragged the infant discipline of evolutionary psychology down with it, and both ended up tarred with the crimes of the Nazis.

It is impossible to overestimate eugenics’ chilling effect on the application of evolutionary ideas to human psychology and society. If biology does in fact influence how we feel, think, and behave, the fear went, evil rulers could engineer, through genetic manipulation, a population tailored to their unscrupulous agendas. Therefore, any hint of biological determinism was banished from psychological research, and the pendulum swung to the other extreme, cultural determinism, or social constructivism. For decades, this dominant paradigm decreed that human behaviour was influenced mainly by socializing factors, such as the family and prevailing cultural norms, and that biology played little if any role.

During this time, evolutionists who ventured into psychology and the social sciences were outcasts. Typical of their struggle against the ruling paradigm was the experience of Paul Ekman, a psychologist who set out for New Guinea in the 1960s to vindicate Darwin’s final major work, The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals (1872). All his life, Darwin had taken notes on the facial expression of emotions in both animals and humans; for cross-cultural data, he asked correspondents around the world to describe indigenous people showing happiness, anger, and other basic emotions, and to ask the subjects what feeling was being expressed. From this research, he concluded that the expression of emotions was identical in primates, and must have a biological basis apart from culture and society. In The Expression of the Emotions, Darwin therefore drew the first credible analogy between the evolution of the human body and that of the human mind.

But thanks to the wide net cast by the eugenics backlash, the book remained anathema to social constructivists until Ekman began his crusade to resurrect it. The anecdotal approach Darwin took in The Expression of the Emotions, partly imposed by the ill health that confined him to England after his famous voyage on the HMS Beagle, lacked rigour by the modern standards of field anthropology. Ekman wanted to duplicate Darwin’s research using “quantitative methods to measure observable behaviour” — to apply the scientific method in a way Darwin could not.

Ekman’s findings in New Guinea confirmed Darwin’s thesis, and he added to Darwin’s research the concept of “display rules.” From his studies of how Japanese and Americans revealed their emotions differently in the presence of authority figures, he concluded that cultures differed widely as to which emotions they were permitted to reveal to others. An anthology Ekman edited and contributed to on facial expressions and the emotions was reviewed by anthropologist Margaret Mead, doyenne at that time of the reigning cultural orthodoxy, and author of such influential classics as Coming of Age in Samoa. Mead savaged his methodology, and concluded her review by suggesting that Darwin’s genius lay in posing questions, not delivering answers.

Ekman soldiered on, and was vindicated in turn. In the last decades of the twentieth century, constructivism became less dominant in the social sciences. Mead’s own work was brought into question, and evolutionary psychology gained credence, if not full acceptance, under the leadership of entomologist E. O. Wilson. In 1998, Ekman published a landmark edition of Darwin’s book that included Darwin’s original photographs and his own, along with related contemporary research.

In this decade, the evolutionary approach to psychology has almost become an orthodoxy in its own right: bestsellers such as Steven Pinker’s The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature scathingly denounce social constructivism, while Marc Hauser’s Moral Minds: How Nature Designed Our Universal Sense of Right and Wrong posits a “universal moral grammar” in an attempt to explain why humans are nice to one another when from a narrowly evolutionary standpoint they have no apparent reason to be. Evolutionary ideas are also remarkably common in a wide range of popular self-help works, such as Ekman’s own Emotions Revealed and John Gray’s Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus.

Despite these advances, resistance to evolution in academic disciplines other than the natural sciences remains solidly entrenched. In part, the tension reflects the traditional standoff between the humanities and the sciences, a divide detailed by the scientist and novelist C. P. Snow in his seminal book The Two Cultures, published in 1959. But evolution has its special antagonists, the most vociferous being the creationists; they objected to evolution at its birth and have never stopped, fuelled by rich and powerful Christian institutions.

Creationists see the mind as a manifestation of divine spirit. But this viewpoint is only the tip of an iceberg evolutionists have failed to dissolve: the belief that the mind is not material and is not governed by the laws of the physical world. This belief has a rich tradition in Western culture, but it contradicts evolution’s claim that mind and consciousness cannot be considered apart from the body and brain in which they reside.

Evolutionists can be their own worst enemies in defending this position, and hardliners such as Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, get the most press. More moderate thinkers, for instance those who wonder if religious belief might be adaptive (i.e., that it might increase an individual’s chances of survival), have less opportunity to address the genuine concern in the humanities and the arts that evolution is a reductive approach to a very complicated human reality.

Into this divide steps Edward Slingerland, co-founder of the University of British Columbia’s new Centre for Human Evolution, Cognition, and Culture. Writers on evolution issues are usually scientists, but Slingerland is one of a newer generation — following in the footsteps of philosopher Daniel Dennett — whose training is in the humanities, but who have turned to science for answers no longer provided by their disciplines of origin. In What Science Offers the Humanities: Integrating Body and Culture, Slingerland proffers an olive branch, arguing that each side must reach out to the other to prevent the university from succumbing to overly hostile diversity.

Citing the case of a student in the psychology of religion who knew next to nothing about the actual content of the world’s religions, Slingerland advises scientists to augment knowledge of their specialities with the broader perspectives only the humanities can provide. Scholars in the humanities, on the other hand, must forgo their disdain of the scientific method or lapse into irrelevance. Originally a scholar of classical Chinese, Slingerland knows from hard experience that humanists who cross into the world of science and return with the new gospel are not greeted with open arms. “When I mention the term ‘behavioral neuroscience’ among a group of religious studies scholars or sinologists,” he writes, “most smile politely and begin slowly backing away, casting about for a safe exit route.” Not surprisingly, he blames humanists more than scientists for perpetuating misunderstanding between the two cultures.

Like many evolutionists, Slingerland believes the humanities are at a dead end, and he typically places most of the responsibility for the debacle on postmodernism. What irks evolutionists most about postmodernism is that by denying a consistent objective reality, it tends to hold all narratives to be inherently subjective and equally valid: scientific explanations rooted in the physical world have no privileged status. To an evolutionist, this displacement of the scientific method is an open invitation to intellectual tyranny.

To remedy the situation, evolutionists have researched and written extensively on religious and philosophical issues. But the arts present the greatest challenge, if only because they appear, by definition in the physical scheme of things, to be unnecessary for survival. Tentative forays into aesthetics in such books as Biopoetics: Evolutionary Explorations in the Arts have so far not generated much momentum. More promising is literature and narrative in general, topics especially dear to “literary Darwinists,” who want to reclaim territory from postmodern French philosophers such as Roland Barthes and Jacques Derrida.

Reflecting the uncertainty of their nascent discipline, the anthology The Literary Animal: Evolution and the Nature of Narrative, jointly edited by English scholar Jonathan Gottschall and David Wilson, a biologist and anthropologist, takes a shotgun approach to evolution and literature. To set some ground rules, Brian Boyd, in his essay “Evolutionary Theories of Art,” outlines four possible explanations for why humans make art. Two of these see art as adaptive, either by encouraging social cohesion or by developing the useful survival strategy of imagining “what if?” Another explanation views art as a human version of the male peacock’s tail, an instrument of sexual selection that makes its owner or producer more attractive to mates. Boyd’s final possibility is that art has no intrinsic survival or selective value at all, but is only a by-product of other evolved functions of the brain.

Despite these diverse and suggestive approaches, the essays in the collection tend to focus on the content of literature rather than its creation. Typical is “Literature, Science, and Human Nature,” by novelist Ian McEwan, the only professional writer among the contributors. Several characters in his novels expound knowledgeably on evolution, most notably Joe Rose in Enduring Love, who ironically attracts a male stalker whose desire fits no evolutionary category at all. McEwan ascribes the ability of readers, regardless of culture, to appreciate the emotions and motivations of characters in literary works from entirely different cultures to the universal emotions we have acquired through evolution. “Literature must be our anthropology,” he proclaims, noting that anthropologists no longer have the opportunity for first contact that allowed Ekman to revalidate The Expression of the Emotions.

McEwan’s approach makes literature a handmaiden to science. More scientific than McEwan’s essay, in method at least, is Gottschall’s investigation of world folklore, in which he addresses the feminist critique that European fairy tales are sexist and not suitable for children. Using computers to crunch volumes of data, he concludes that all fairy tales, not just European ones, are sexist — not a problem for evolutionists, since what feminists term sexist they term natural. In this essay, the literature is not evaluated as literature, but serves as data for a more comprehensive analysis of social attitudes.

Implicit in Gottschall’s argument is the idea that statements about literature that cannot be scientifically verified are inherently inferior. In another investigation, he recognized a testable hypothesis in Barthes’s well-worn notion that there are no authors, only readers who “write” a different book each time they read. Working with Joseph Carroll, a leading literary Darwinist, Gottschall set up a huge survey to catalogue individual responses to a wide range of Victorian novels. The consistency of readers’ emotional reactions was statistically significant, demonstrating to Gottschall that the extreme subjectivism so dear to postmodernism is groundless.

Extensive surveys like Gottschall’s, along with cross-cultural studies and brain scans to monitor areas that respond to different stimuli, are the stock-in-trade of psychological and neurological investigation. On the face of it, there is no reason why the humanities should not employ these powerful tools to generate different perspectives on literature or other humanist disciplines — without necessarily assuming that these scientific results represent the final word on the subject at hand. Common sense says that the sciences and the humanities need both extreme objectivity and extreme subjectivity, and everything in between.

Computer analyses and brain scans are light years away from Darwin’s anecdotal approach in The Expression of the Emotions, or even from Ekman’s more scientific confirmation of Darwin’s findings in the 1960s. But hightech methods sometimes pale beside homespun ingenuity in the formulation of an experiment. Takahiko Masuda, a psychologist at the University of Alberta, has conducted extensive cross-cultural studies comparing North American and Japanese responses to various stimuli. Curious about the finding that facial expressions of emotion are universal, and noting that both Darwin and Ekman showed their subjects isolated faces without context or background, Masuda and his team compared the responses of the two cultural groups when presented with a Photoshop- generated happy face against a background of faces expressing various intensities of happiness, sadness, and anger.

When presented with a smiling face against a background of contrary expressions, the Japanese, unlike the North Americans, had significant doubts about whether the face truly represented “happiness.” Much more than the North Americans, the Japanese took context into account and concluded that, despite the smiley face, an individual surrounded by unhappy people might not feel all that happy. Like the display rules Ekman had formulated from his own analysis of American and Japanese cultures, Masuda’s work points to what might be termed “context rules” that affect the actual experiencing of emotion.

Masuda and his co-workers concluded that cultural variants explain the difference in the responses. Indeed, without data from prehistory there is no way to validate any other interpretation. Presumably, at some point in the past the ancestors of the two responding groups diverged in their sensitivity to foregrounding and context. But which diverged from which? Is the North American response the later one — meaning that the older, “universal” response would be the Japanese one — or vice versa?

Masuda’s findings suggest that a one-to-one correspondence between internal emotion and external expression may not be as direct and universal as Darwin and Ekman assumed. While not undermining their work, the research demonstrates how scientific truths, even those as established as evolution, continue to evolve as the human mind finds new ways to reconstruct old paradigms. And Darwin himself, a bearded patriarch strolling down his “thinking path” on the grounds of his estate in Kent, would have been the first to consider these questions worth investigating.

Comments (17 comments)

Lloyd West, PhD: I would appreciate more articles on evolutionary Psychology. This was great. August 14, 2008 19:56 EST

Jim F: What irks evolutionists most about postmodernism is that by denying a consistent objective reality, it tends to hold all narratives to be inherently subjective and equally valid.

What irks those interested in late 20th-century and contemporary French philosophy are assertions like these that reveal the author has learned his postmodernism from the newspapers rather than from the sources.

E.g.: Derrida has said, "Meaning is determined by a system of forces which is not personal" (Literary Review vol. 14.18, Apr-May, 1980, 21-22). If that is true, then it is not subjective.

Except for this uninformed (or, rather, informed only by what some American literary types decided to make of the work of figures like Derrida and what, consequently became popluar in the press), this is an excellent piece. Thanks. August 17, 2008 20:16 EST

Shalom Freedman: The moderate approach which argues that use of certain scientific methods may aid in our understanding of Literature or Art makes good sense. But the effort to subordinate and subdue the 'Humanities' to subsume them under the precepts of 'Evolutionary Psychology' is an intellectual wrong turn , no more valid than the one - time efforts made to subsume all to modern Physics when its star shone brightest in the Academcy. Each realm of discourse has its own world of explanation which in some sense cannot be translated into any other. I have recently read a couple of works which read classics of world literature through the lens of 'evolutionary psychology'. How poor and thin they are beside the great literary readings of those works.
So again while there is something to be gained by bringing the latest scientific findings and explanations to understanding works of Art it should not be taken as the all- in- all or even the heart of the matter. August 18, 2008 00:02 EST

CdnDon: To JimF:

I am glad your final comment was positive. Obviously you live on the well-informed side of the freight that Derridistas are obliged to endure with faint smiles.
However, you suggest that popular press misinterpretaions of post-modernism explain the author's comment.
Except I arrived there without the help of the popular press.
It's hard to conduct informed debate when one side questions the existence or validity of informed debate.
Not to say you might well be correct. August 18, 2008 00:42 EST

James: Postmodernism is certainly a blight upon the humanities, but importing Darwinian-reductionism into the humanities is a cure worse than the disease. It obliterates all the subtlety and psychological nuance that ought to inform reflection upon the arts—-that are, indeed, the whole point of the arts. So men and women have different sexual natures due to their biology: This is supposed to be news to the poets and novelists of the Western tradition? This is supposed to throw light on Un Amour de Swann? So symmetrical features are a sign of health and thus of reproductive vigor: This is supposed to provide insight into the reason why the beauty of the Bach cantatas makes me weep? Give me a break! August 18, 2008 04:34 EST

H. Handlen: The core of the question about consciousness and the human powers of intellect comes to this: can a physical organ, the brain, produce something which is not physical, i.e., abstract thoughts - categories and generalities that have no physical existence? Every common noun in the dictionary is an example. The very best thought on this is the book "The Difference of Man and the Difference It Makes" by the late Mortimer Adler. August 18, 2008 06:05 EST

David: Having come out of the Anthropology Dept at the University of Utah, I know just how bitter the evolutionary faithful can be. Anthropology departments across the country went through these "evolutionary" wars during the 90's and the early 00's. At Utah, I remember having Steven Pinker stuffed down our throats like his work was gospel, not to be questioned. I remember professors who ostracized people if they mentioned Marshall Sahlins's critique of sociobiology (for full-disclosure, me included, but this extended to faculty colleagues as well). The department did not want academic debate, it operated an inquisition.
The general nihilism of postmodernism has pushed too many bright people over the scientistic edge into the waiting arms of evolutionist pentecostalism. I agree with Darwinian evolutionary thought, but its Frankenstein off-shoot is not a scientific field, rather an attempt at arm-chair ratiocination. The rational-maximizing models on which they rely and their own "survival of the fittest" mentality leaves no room for compromise—it is the playground bully of academia and thus better avoided. August 18, 2008 09:01 EST

Chengora: There are a number of problems with this article, particularly in that the author uncritically hews too closely to the victim complex of evolutionary psychologists. Whether it's defending against charges of eugenics, proclaiming that they are a "real science," or lamenting about the "misunderstanding" created by the humanities, ev. psych. practitioners have great difficulty in recognizing and directly and carefully addressing the empirical and methodological critiques leveled against them.

Now, I certainly think that evolution has something to say about human behavior. But ev. psych. (which is a distinctly different practice) goes way too far in stamping a depleted view of evolution and biology in order to explain all human behavior.

For example, the author of the article states:

"The classic view of evolution is that random alterations in the biology of individuals make some more adaptable than others to their changing environment. These adaptive traits are “selected,” and the fittest survive in succeeding generations until, eventually, a new species evolves. Evolutionary psychology takes evolution one step further: not only the body of Homo sapiens, but the human mind as well has been shaped by this process."

Yes, this is the classic view. But it's also declining in application and importance. Evolutionary biology as a science has moved away from the assumption of individual genetic adaptation (a.k.a. selfish gene theory) with a wider appreciation for the fact that there are multiple levels of selection acting upon organisms. Then there is the new book "Kluge", which demonstrates in vivid detail that one shouldn't assume a particular characteristic is a selected adaptation. It can very well be an accident, random, or leftover.

Reading back "purpose" into these physical and psychological traits - without adequate testing and clear lines of scientific causality - is a methodological error of the first order. A greater sensitivity to the nuances of biological development would provide a far superior picture of how genetics is affected by the environment and human agency to arrive at decision and then behavior. Sadly, this nuance is lacking in the ev. psych. discourse. August 18, 2008 14:13 EST

Jon: "It is impossible to overestimate eugenics' chilling effect on the application of evolutionary ideas to human psychology and society."

Oh, come on, I bet you could if you tried really hard. Actually, in comparison with the damage done by belief systems such as Freudianism, Marxism and (of course) religion, eugenics has had relatively little impact on history and society. But any stick will do to beat an atheist with... August 18, 2008 14:23 EST

michael: dear james
you weep at a bach cantata, others would quickly reach over and switch the station to hear rap music. your personal preferences are not the issue. the question is "why do all(most) humans make music?" "why do all (most)humans tell stories?". The study is of human nature not minor individual differences.
regards August 18, 2008 17:47 EST

michael: dear james
you weep at a bach cantata, others would quickly reach over and switch the station to hear rap music. your personal preferences are not the issue. the question is "why do all(most) humans make music?" "why do all (most)humans tell stories?". The study is of human nature not minor individual differences.
regards August 18, 2008 17:47 EST

Constantin Polychronakos: Emotion is a function of the brain whose properties, like those of any other body part, were selected for maximal probability of survival.The one important difference between cognitive and other biological functions is quantitative, not qualitative: culture shapes cognition and emotion to a much greater extent than physical environment modulates other biological attributes(frankly, I fail to grasp the earth-shattering importance of the European-Japanese facial expression experiment: emotion is culture-specific, headline news!).

This is why attempts to understand things like literature in terms of its survival value end up being, to be charitable, naive. From romanticism to realism to expressionism to surrealism to modernism and, now, post-modernism, was a trajectory that required less than two centuries, a time infinitestimally short in the scale of biological evolution. As michael remarked, evolution can explain why we need literature (isn't the survival value of communication, to a species as social as Homo sapiens, obvious?), not why we write (and read) the way we do.

Evolutionary psychologists would do well to emulate the methodolgocial paradigms of their biological colleagues: suvival value helps in formulating the most plausible hypotheses but, for testing these hypotheses, nothing can replace direct observation and analysis. August 18, 2008 21:16 EST

Chengora: Constantin - I agree with your conclusion, but the difference between cultural and biological forces is not simply quantitative. Yes, there is the speed issue, but culture affects cognition in a fundamentally different way than genes or physical development. To a certain extent, I think the question revolves around what characteristic we're discussing. Comparing the evolution of the eye, for example, to an intellectual history of literature - it stretches the bounds of analogy too far without adequate recognition of the fundamental differences.

And this is where I disagree with you, Michael. Individual differences are part and parcel of human nature. You can't just wipe them away by saying "we're only looking at the commonalities." I think it's certainly important that we do that, but you're making a big assumption that people - for example - make music for the same reason. What if that's not the case? There are plenty of examples of similar adaptations (consider the many ways animals glide and fly) that are nevertheless structurally distinct and have an impact on the range of possible actions. As in all scientific theories, the measure of the theory is how well it can account for the minutia through direct observation and analysis. And because of that, I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusion, Constantin. August 19, 2008 06:22 EST

James: Michael:

I certainly do not deny that different levels of music exist, both low and high. BTW, that is true for all the arts (think of the difference between Stephen King and Tolstoy).

We could have an interesting discussion about the arguments in favor of an objective hierarchy of values. But for the purposes of the present discussion, it is important to see that whether objective beauty exists is one question, and whether it can be "explained" by Darwinism is another. It is also important to note that the Darwinists must in some sense be on my side here—-that is, they must feel that a faculty for the appreciation of beauty exists—-for otherwise, there would be nothing for them to explain, and so no point to the whole discussion.

At any rate, my post was intended merely to point out the great disparity between the conceptual poverty of Darwinian theory (reducting all human capacities to a byproduct of reproductive success) and the extraordinary richness of the phenomenology of our human response to beauty.


August 19, 2008 08:03 EST

Anonymous: Sorry but this argument is not about evolution at all but and argument for innateness and justifying cultural differences. More study of John locke and a committment to the genuine spirit of enquiry would have made all the difference. August 24, 2008 18:44 EST

Anonymous: I am not a scientist or psychologist and I did not understand half of what I just read. But I am comforted in that I do not have to worry about that because I know that all the scientific research and studies cannot disprove the fact that God created the world. This is not religious based, God simply Is and nothing can change that. Especially an idea that a human came up with and the world decided that it sounded good so it became fact. Its kind of funny to me that all of these really brilliant and successful scientists are going on about something that does not even exist. They could show me all the 'evidence' that they have come up with to prove evolution, and I would still never believe that it was true. How could anyone not believe that a majestic and all-powerful God did not create the world when they look at all of its complexities? This will confuse me till the day I die. August 29, 2008 09:44 EST

Pavel: To Anon from August 29th. Maybe you should try understanding what you read. Then maybe you'll lose the silly God-made-everything attitude. The fact that evidence doesn't sway your opinion is frankly scary. There is a possibility that you are wrong, and you should be open to that. Otherwise you are no different than some brainwashed cult member. I hope that what I read was sarcasm and not an actual opinion of yours. August 29, 2008 12:25 EST

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