Related Local Links:
Fun Telescopes for $10 Homebrew Pages
Glue, Adhesives, Leather... Pages
HomeBrew Lenses (and lens adaptations) Pages
Kiev-88 Pages (camera body flare fixes etc.)
Kodak Brushing Lacquer, No. 4 (dull black) (.doc file)
Lens Faults Pages
Flat black paint, black flocking, or black velvet is often used to reduce
light reflections and flare in camera lenses,
camera bodies, and instruments such as telescopes and microscopes.
The
interior black paint used to reduce reflections in lenses sometimes wears
or flakes off, producing black dust in the lens (see Lens Faults Pages for more details).
Kodak #4 brushing lacquer is often used to get a flat black painted effect
inside older cameras such as folders and lenses (thanks to
F.W. Stutterheim for this tip - see Leather,
Glue.. pages).
Fargo Enterprises sells camera
repair products, including flat black (and glossy) lacquer paints and
paint pens (like a magic marker). [Thanks to Tony Zoccolillo for
the tip - see posting]
Another camera repair resource is "Camera Restoration Flat Black", which
comes in a 4 oz. brown glass bottle. [Thanks to Mark Kronquist
the tip - see posting]
Kylon (Krylon?) has a Camo paint series which has an ultra flat
non-reflective black spray paint offering (thanks to Don Dkteat@aol.com
for this tip - see posting).
Many hobby shops have Testor paints, including a flat black bottle (in
1/4th ounce size!) for under $1 (thanks to Marty for this tip - see posting].
Stan Yoder points out that there is
also a Testor's paint pen in flat black (Thanks for the tip! - see posting).
The Kiev-88 Camera Pages and related resource
pages point out that many times flare in the
camera lenses is blamed for flare on photographs. In truth, the flare may
be caused by reflections off of shiny metal parts of the lens mount and
other internal camera body parts. Another source of flare is poor sealing
at the back of the camera, whether due to deteriorated camera foam or light seals on camera
backs. (see Hasselbald camera notes for related
postings too).
For information on glossy black camera paints, see our page on restoring camera paint finishes.
Related Postings:
From: Dan ddan7@uswest.net
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Hey Berry:
The "standard" is Krylon Ultra-flat black. Results won't be as "black"
as flocked paper, however.
I assume you're working with a newtonian. One area of the tube which is
very important is the interior wall opposite your focuser. You get a
good idea of this area by removing the eyepiece, getting your eye up
close to the focuser, and evaluating how much of the opposite wall you
can see. Covering this area (at least) with flocked paper is a good
idea (and certainly easier than covering the entire tube's interior).
Check out http://www.fpi-protostar.com/Flocked.htm
I also recommend adding some sort of front-end light shield (unless your
tube already incorporates one) - say, extending about as far ahead of
your front end as the tube's diameter itself. Example: for a 10-inch
tube, use a light shield which extends ~ 10- inches in front of your
front end. Stay tuned for other folks' 1st-hand experience.
I recall hearing about a couple other black paints which were "blacker"
than Krylon UFB, but I think they were somewhat "specialized" and
perhaps not as common. Again, listen for other folks' input on this..
Best wishes, -Dan
berry wrote:
> ...Anyone know of a good flat black aerosol paint that would > be good for the interior of my tube and would be of such a > common item that I would be able to purchase it locally. > > Cheers > Berry
From: Ed Taychert elt@irony.com
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Krylon Ultraflat Black is the best regularly available black paint
I've seen by far... I like it much better than "barbeque grill paint."
The national chains seem to thinning their Krylon selection in favor
of their store brands and this is one that's getting hard to find.
They say that their store brand is the same thing ... I just kept
searching and found a smaller store that had it.
As good as the krylon is, I liked "flocked paper" even better.
.....
From: "Bob Knowlden" bobkn@azstarnet.com
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Berry,
Krylon Ultra Flat Black is the most commonly recommended. I think that the
old 3M Nextel flat black is long dead.
You may not find Krylon Ultra Flat at Walmart. If you have a Sherwin
Williams store available, try them. (Same company.) That's where I found
some when I last needed it.
The blackest black is supposed to be natural black velvet. The best light
suppression usually follows from light trapping rather than absorbtion.
Flocking paper is probably more practical, as it's available in
self-adhesive sheets. (Please don't ask from whom; I've never purchased
any. It was kept around at a former employer's shop.)
HTH.
Bob Knowlden
Tucson, Arizona, USA
From: JMc trimil@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Edmund Scientific sells the self adhesive flocking for use in optical
work. It works well as long as the tube diameter is at least six inches.
The adhesive is very aggressive, and trying to put it in smaller tubes
is a sure path to madness.
A while back (late '80s?), I read an article about an optical black
paint developed by Lockheed for some aircraft program. A photomicrograph
showed it had a very rough, cratered surface after drying. They claimed
it absorbed light better than any regular flat black paint, and was even
useful for space qualified systems because it didn't shed fibers.
As far as I know, it was never commercialized and the formula probably
sits molding in a file cabinet. Some clever chemist out there needs to
formulate a flat black paint that foams slightly as it dries.
Jim McSheehy
> Bob Knowlden wrote: > > Berry, > > Krylon Ultra Flat Black is the most commonly recommended. I think that the > old 3M Nextel flat black is long dead. > > You may not find Krylon Ultra Flat at Walmart. If you have a Sherwin > Williams store available, try them. (Same company.) That's where I found > some when I last needed it. > > The blackest black is supposed to be natural black velvet. The best light > suppression usually follows from light trapping rather than absorbtion. > Flocking paper is probably more practical, as it's available in > self-adhesive sheets. (Please don't ask from whom; I've never purchased any. > It was kept around at a former employer's shop.) > > HTH. > > Bob Knowlden > Tucson, Arizona, USA > "berry" bnellums@bellsouth.net wrote > > ...Anyone know of a good flat black aerosol paint that would > > be good for the interior of my tube and would be of such a > > common item that I would be able to purchase it locally. > > > > Cheers > > Berry
From: ptw@rlsaxps.bnsc.rl.ac.uk (Pat Wallace)
Date: 19 Jun 2000
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
"Bob Knowlden" nobobkn@azstarnet.comspam writes:
>Krylon Ultra Flat Black is the most commonly recommended.
I bought an aerosol can of this in the USA to compare with equivalent
products in the UK. (Fortunately it didn't go off in my baggage on the
way back.) It turned out to be very similar to the local brands, i.e. not
very black at all, and just as glossy for grazing incidence.
>The blackest black is supposed to be natural black velvet.
I just used this inside a telescope I was finishing off. My first
attempt was to cut it to size and glue it in place with rubbery
carpet glue. This didn't work very well because the fabric distorted
during handling and ended up looking like an unmade bed. The next
attempt was to get some self-adhesive plastic sheet, the sort of
thing you might use to cover school textbooks, spray it with aerosol
mounting adhesive, and lay the velvet on top. This worked very well.
You could easily cut out shapes, and the velvet didn't distort when the
backing was peeled off. And it stuck down without too many wrinkles
and bubbles.
Patrick Wallace
From: azzz1588@aol.com (Allan Mayer)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: 19 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
"Bob Knowlden" nobobkn@azstarnet.comspam writes:
>The blackest black is supposed to be natural black velvet.
Ok it seems to me that velvet would be easier to get.
Question is, would it be that much better, (than flocking paper)
and how will it last with time. I'm going to flock the inside of
my C 8 sometime in the future, and am interested.
Allan
http://members.aol.com/Thetabat/hello.html
From: "Timothy Povlick, PE" potentate@home.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Jim,
Perhaps what you are referring to as quoted from "The Hubble Wars",
by Eric J. Chaisson;
'And much of all this tube and baffle combination is treated with
Martin Black, which is not (as some thought) the name of a
person but a code name for a classified, fragile, stealthlike paint
made by Martin-Marietta Corporation. The blackest of all
materials on earth, the poruous Martin-Black substance ensures
the purity of Hubble's data by "absorbing" all light except that
coming directly from the telescope's targets.'
----
Sure would like to get some of that...
Tim
JMc wrote:
> A while back (late '80s?), I read an article about an optical black > paint developed by Lockheed for some aircraft program. A photomicrograph > showed it had a very rough, cratered surface after drying. They claimed > it absorbed light better than any regular flat black paint, and was even > useful for space qualified systems because it didn't shed fibers. > > As far as I know, it was never commercialized and the formula probably > sits molding in a file cabinet. Some clever chemist out there needs to > formulate a flat black paint that foams slightly as it dries. > > Jim McSheehy
From: JMc trimil@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Timothy,
Thanks for the name reference. I did a cursory search and sure enough.
Martin Marietta (later Lockheed Martin) invented this process. In the
reference I found:
http://www.ifinishing.com/1600-1799/1670.html
there seems to be a disagreement as to whether Martin Black is a coating
or an anodizing process. However it gets applied, for visible light, its
reflectivity is much than any commercial flat black paint.
Jim McSheehy
From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi ramarren@bayarea.net
Subject: Re: Leica glass
> ... But what I heard from Erwin (I believe) is that all Leica glass > is catalog items from these companies. Nothing special. It's the > optical formula (not the glass formula) and coating that is special.
I believe that the other ingredient is high precision assembly and
finishing. For example, the Contax/Zeiss and Leica tech reps make a great
deal out of the fact that they have several dozen black paints for
finishing the edges of their lens elements with different
reflectance/absorbtion characteristics, which allows them to tune the
lenses response curves to a degree not possible with the highly automated
precision manufacturing processes that the volume producers use.
Godfrey
From: RKBerta biker123NObiSPAM@netzero.com
Subject: Re: Interior flat black Paint
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
I found that while the Krylon flat black is OK...if you get
black auto primer it is even flatter. The best is to avoid
paint and get some black flocked contact paper. I got a
bunch from Edmund Scientific. The trick in installing it
is do NOT remove the whole backing and try to stick it
on...you will end up with a mess with a bunch of wrinkles.
Instead you pull back about a 1/4" of the backing paper and
tack it in place with good alignment. Now you slowly pull
the paper backing off as you press it into place and work
around making sure to not put tension on it to avoid air
bubbles an wrinkles. It is pretty easy to do once you get
the hang of it and I was able to put in on the inside of my
80mm refractor and 1 1/4" extension tube no problem.
Oh yeah...these steps DO make a difference in glare and
flare reduction. While you have the inside of the tube
open make a point of removing any excess screw length that
is inside the tube and blacking out any screws, etc. that
are showing inside.
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000
From: Aunt Gertrude AGertrude3@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Ultra Flat Paint or Flocking Paper
You didn't say what kind of telescope you have. If it's a refractor,
look through it without an eyepiece, in the daytime. You should be able to
see the walls of the tube closest to the objective. Even though it is
painted with flat black paint, you will see a bright reflection from the
cylindrical surface. This is the worst area for reflection and should be
covered with flock paper or velvet. Rutten & van Venrooij (Telescope
Optics, Willman-Bell, 1999, pp 227-228) report that the reflectance of
flock paper is about twice that of black velvet, when the light is
striking it at an angle. Black paint reflects about a hundred times as
much!
Many telescopes don't have enough space to install effective annular
baffles. You need a tube that is considerable larger than the objective.
In a Newtonian, your problems are doubled since you have scattered
light from two or more sources--light reflected by the wall opposite the
eyepiece is the worst. Flock paper here will help noticable.
You can flock or baffle the whole tube, but the improvement becomes
marginal after the two big problem areas are corrected. I also blackened
the outside of my tube around my focuser so I can keep both eyes open
while viewing. Closing one eye contracts the muscles of your open eye and
can effect visual acuity , as well as be tiring. You can wear a black eye
patch but you'll look like a "dork" (according to my science students).
Painting the tube black on the outside works quite well.
Baffled in Vermont. --Aunt Gertrude
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000
From: Steve notaddress@nospam.org
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Ultra Flat Paint or Flocking Paper
Esmail,
Here's a link to Jim Fly's page on installing black velvet:
http://home.earthlink.net/~flyj/velvproc.html
I've not used the MacMaster Carr velvet but I have used these
instructions to install self-adhesive Protostar paper in my C5. I don't
think installing it in an ST80 would be that hard although you would have
to sand off the black paint inside the tube for the Protostar paper to
stick (based on the Protostar instructions and my own experience).
Lining the inside of the C5 with a single sheet of paper was easy but
lining the baffle/tube that the primary rides on was more of a challenge
and I could only do it by cutting the paper into two strips. The biggest
challenge of the whole operation was getting up the nerve to pull the C5
apart in the first place.
I think the Protostar paper might be stiff enough to hold itself
against the wall of the scope if you leave the backing on and keep the
edges of the sheet on the bottom of the tube so they don't sag into view.
Protostar could certainly give you some advice on this.
Clear skies,
Steve
Esmail Bonakdarian wrote:
> [snip] > > Hi Jeff, > > If I am thinking of flocking the inside of my little ST80, should I get > non-sticky flocking paper? Is it thick enough that it would "unfold" and > stay up against the tube if I first rolled it up and let it unroll inside > the tube (contorted sentence I know .. hopefully you get the idea). > > Esmail
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] kodak black paint
The stuff Kodak used to sell was glossy. Automotive paints are made to
take weather and abuse and are most likely a lot tougher than model
paints like those from Testors.
Bob
...
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000
From: Tim Ellestad ellestad@mailbag.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] kodak black paint
I still have a bottle of this paint. It is in a 4 oz. glass bottle with a
yellow Kodak label - "Brushing Lacquer No. 4 - Dull Black". It is a very
flat black. It dries in a heartbeat. It is not a very tough finish,
though, suitable for blacking surfaces that don't receive any wear.
Tim Ellestad
ellestad@mailbag.com
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000
From: Gene Johnson genej2@home.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] kodak black paint
Whoops, sorry. thought we were talking about flat stuff. I have a
suggestion though. I am absolutely smitten by this stuff called Zynolyte
Rust Mate Epoxy. I've never used it on a camera but I've used it on
everything else. Really excellent stuff. Sold in finer hardware
establishments
Usually comes in spray cans, but I've seen it in
half pints too. It's possible to spray a little out into a small
container if all you can find is a spray can and you need to brush it.
Gene Johnson
...
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000
From: bgreer@fpi-protostar.com (Bryan Greer)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Subject: Re: Ultra Flat Paint or Flocking Paper
Hello everyone,
The flocked "paper" sold by ProtoStar is not really paper. It's a bit
of a misnomer. It is a 100% Rayon (i.e., synthetic) product, and the
fibers are pulled out of the base material during manufacturing. The
fibers are not applied as a secondary operation. This is why it
doesn't shed the fibers.
BTW, the test I did to choose this material from a bunch of candidates
was to scrub it with a toothbrush over a white sheet of paper.
Sincerely,
Bryan Greer
Columbus, OH
From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] kodak black paint
you wrote:
>The stuff Kodak used to sell was glossy. Automotive paints are made to >take weather and abuse and are most likely a lot tougher than model >paints like those from Testors. > >Bob
The best flat black paint available is _Krylon Ultra-Flat-Black_.
Unfortunately, its available only in spray cans, but you can spray some
into a small container and brush it on.
It is very light absorbent and sticks well. Its about the only material
generrally available now for painting lens element edges. When used that
way it should be baked out for a time since it outgasses. It is very
effective on interior camera surfaces.
It is found in hardware stores.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
From Rollei Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] kodak black paint
you wrote:
>Mark > >I believe that 3M makes a VERY flat black paint that is used to coat the >inside of >telescopes and other optical instruments. > >Jerry
Called Black Velvet or some similar name. Unfortunately, it was
discontinued some years ago. This stuff had the great advantage of not
outgassing.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
From Hasselblad Mailing LIst;
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001
From: Jim Brick jim@brick.org
Subject: Re: anyone ever repaired a chipped lens rear element?
Careful use of "lamp black" should help a lot. Lamp black is made by
putting something like a ceramic plate just above a candle flame. The
black deposit on the plate is nearly a complete absorber of light.
Carefully, via toothpick or other very small instrument, dab some lamp
black into the chip. This will eliminate any flare caused by the chip as
it will stop ray scatter.
Jim
Eric Armstrong wrote:
>Hi - >I purchased a SWC for a bargain price. It was a bargain because it has a >pinhead nick on the rear element. Testing I did on the camera before >handing over the money seemed to indicate that claims the defect had no >effect on exposures were true. > >Unfortunately, after a few hundred rolls of use, I've discovered that >under certain exposure conditions, the nick will show up as a small >roundish shadow on the film. It seems to be related to the angle of light >coming into the lens at exposure, but have not tested extensively enough >to determine the precise conditions. This shadow shows up in perhaps one >of 25 shots. (If you have ideas about how to test to determine exact >cause, I'm interested to hear from you, but my real question is below)... > >I have inquired of Zeiss whether they can provide a replacement rear >element for me and they claim not to provide spare optical or mechanical >parts for the old C lenses. (it's a T*, ser# UR 141047, lens serial >number Nr5767052, modified by Hasselblad USA to be a SWC/M) > >In looking at the lens schematic on Zeiss' website, and looking at the >camera itself, it appears the rear element is separate from the rest of >the lens construction, and is simply held in by a retaining ring. Does >anyone know if a repair can be effected on this camera? Does anyone have >a SWC with a ruined FRONT element (clean T* rear element) they'd like to >get a couple hundred bucks for? > >regards, >-Eric >Eric Armstrong >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >e-mail: ericarm@alum.calberkeley.org >http://alum.calberkeley.org/~ericarm
From: "Mark Bergman" mb50742@navix.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Can Black Bodies Be Refinished?
The guy in Japan has a web site somewhere and his price of $400 is the
cheapest I've ever seen. I don't think camera repair / refurbishing is
his occupation either, just something he taught himself and likes doing
(hence the low price).
If you think brassing is a badge of honor than most of my Leica equipment
(including the chrome) are "Medal of Honor" winners-:).
BTW the $400 doesn't remove any body damage (dents, dings,etc).
"McEowen" mceowen@aol.com wrote
> >> various repair shops have offered painting Leica rangefinders black as > >a > >> service. The cost is usually $400~800.
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001
From: Marv Soloff msoloff@worldnet.att.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Looking for best light absorbing black flat paint [Kiev 60]
Ewa Anton wrote:
> Before I start shooting with my Kiev 60 I want to cover black paint > with more light absorbing coat of something; I bought water based black > paint but thin coat of that stuff put on the paper is grey so i decided > to count for advice of Kiev 60 owners who solved this problem > succesfully. Thanks. > Jerzy Anton
I used "Anita's All Purpose Acrylic Craft Paint Black #11002" available
at A.C.Moore craft stores at 79 cents for the 60ml bottle. Used two
coats with a 24 hour dry time between. Use a small paint brush - very
small.
Regards,
Marv
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001
From: "Q.G. de Bakker" qnu@worldonline.nl
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Looking for best light absorbing black flat paint [Kiev60]
Ewa Anton wrote:
> Before I start shooting with my Kiev 60 I want to cover black paint > with more light absorbing coat of something; I bought water based black > paint but thin coat of that stuff put on the paper is grey so i decided > to count for advice of Kiev 60 owners who solved this problem > succesfully. Thanks.
Tetenal has a product called "Optik-Lack" (art.nr. 0938). It is really
dead black. I have used this one to paint the insides of several self-made
adapters. It really is totally mat, no shine at all. Especially when
sprayed on. Only drawback is that it is not resistant to abrasion. But
that shouldn't be a problem in interiors of cameras and the like.
From Camera Makers Mailing List;
From: "Lyndon Fletcher (UAB)" Lyndon.Fletcher@uab.ericsson.se
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001
Subject: [Cameramakers] black plastic
Obvious source of thin (optically) black plastic --- the darkslides from
5x4 Graflex filmpack holders. Nobody makes 4x5 packfilm any longer and the
whole assembly can be boughht for a few bucks on ebay.
Lyndon
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: flexaret2@aol.com (FLEXARET2)
Date: Sun May 2001
[1] Re: better black paint
Surprise!
There is something easy to get and inexpensive that dries harder than any
paint.
BLACK NAIL POLISH.
Buy several brands- some are better than others and sometimes the cheapest
ones are the best. I found some to be a little brown tone, so choose
several.
I have had incredible great results with this. You may only need a pin
point using the tip of a paper clip to fill in a paint chip - don't overdo
it.
Buy lots of this stuff while this weird fashion is still in style.
- Sam Sherman
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Marv Soloff msoloff@worldnet.att.net
Date: Mon May 14 2001
[1] Re: better black paint
....
Black nail polish works well - you may have to buff it to blend it in,
but does work. Some of the nail polishes are acetate based, some
lacquer based. Like Sam, I find the cheapest (79 cents a bottle)
works the best - and stay away from the metallics.
Of course you will look pretty silly rummaging through the cosmetics
department of a store, but you are going to have to do this one
yourself. There are several hundred shades of black, and none made to a
recognized "standard".
Regards,
Marv
From camera fix mailing list: Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com> Subject: Re: [camera-fix] paint for lenses Kodak used to sell a product called Black Brushing Lacquer (if I am remembering the name right) that worked exceptionally well for this. Of course, like anything that really worked, they discontinued it. I compared it at the time it was discontinued to other paints and it seemed very similar to Pactra black enamel sold for painting scale models. You can buy this at most hobby shops. However, in your case I think it might be better to just leave the old paint alone. Unless it was flaking off, I never repainted elements, and even then usually just rubbed off the loose paint and painted over the remaining old paint. If you can see these bad areas as white or whitish when looking into the opposite side of the element, then you may want to scrape the paint away from those areas. If you can't see them light won't "see" them either and they are best left alone. Bob
From russian camera mailing list: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com Subject: Re: Help ! Seek Repair Book or Explosion Drawing for Leningrad Yuri, Go to your nearest art supply store and ask for Liquitex black acrylic artist's paint. It is flexible when it dries, thins with water, and is VERY black. I use it on shutter curtains and bellows (always on the inside!). Just be sure to let it thoroughly dry before moving the shutter curtains. Bob
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 From: Bert Janssen hcmjanssen@hotmail.com To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu Subject: touching up balck camera bodies When I was going to touch up the heavy brassing on my Minolta XM,I bought a couple of black camera paint from MicroTools; on bottle of "glossy" an one of "flat", since I had no idea how either of them would like on the body. I first tried the glossy paint and it covered the brassed area well. But after it had dried, it was too glossy compared to the original paint, so I redid the job, now using the flat black paint. It worked out much better, but looking not quite shiny enough (seemed alomst dark greyish); nevertheless I am satisfied was the result, as you have to look very careful to see the difference. For the white lettering I bought the "Lacquer-Stik" Paintstick Kit, containing a whole series of colours: white, yellow, red, black, orange, blue, green, gold and silver. The white stick is very effective; I guess I might even redo the job using silver or gold to give my black Minoltas a personal touch! The other colours may be used (if you are very careful) to repaint the lettering on lens barrels etc.; perhaps you might even personalize your cameras by using the gold colour for the brand name and red or gold for the model name! The black stick can be used to repaint the black lettering on chrome bodies; I have done so on an old XG-1 and the result was great. Bert Janssen
From: Marv Soloff msoloff@worldnet.att.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: I wish "brushing laquer" were still around Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 Roland wrote: > > Last time I asked, black nail varnish was the most recommended paint for > retouching camera black enamel where it had chipped or worn off. I use it > and it is quite good. I use one for high glass finishes and another for less > glossy finishes. I dilute it down with a solvent used for cleaning > transparencies that smells like pears. However, the nail varnish has too > much varnish and too little black. It would be better if it were thinner and > blacker. Also it would be better if there were a whole range of finishes > from high gloss to near matt. I'm surprised nobody makes something like > that. There must be tens of thousands of camera collectors around who would > buy the stuff and also buy multiple bottles for the multiple finishes. I > know micro-tools does some but the paint is so poor it is useless. Dig around at camera stores that have been in business for a long time. Last year I got the last two bottles of Kodak #4 Brushing Lacquer from a camera store in Montclair, NJ that has been in business for over 100 years. The lacquer was buried in the back of one of their chemistry shelves. I did find (after a really long search) the basic formula for Kodak #4 and can send it to you if you want to roll your own. Regards, Marv
From camera makers mailing list: From: "Don Feinberg" donf@cybernex.net Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] black felt Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 Edmund Scientific in Barrington, NJ sells black felted paper which comes either with or without adhesive backing. The thickness is less than the 2mm you need; it's just about 1mm thick. Alternatively, you can get some flocking material at www.donjer.com, and apply it to a 2mm substrate which you will prepare by yourself... Don Feinberg donf@cybernex.net > I want to replace the felt of a Patent Etui camera. I checked micro-tools, > but they only have foam. Does anybody know a source for black felt, about > 2mm (about 1/16 to 3/32 of an inch) thickness? ...
From camera makers mailing list: From: "BG" techman@clnk.com Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] black felt Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 At one time I contacted the man that built the Cyclops Pano Camera about his source for the black material that was used as a light trap on his camera. Dont know if it is called felt, or plush, or velvet.....or the black stuff like on the opening of a 35mm film cartridge. Anyway he directed me to Boston Felt Company http://www.bostonfelt.com/ BG ...
From: "Danny Rich" DannyRich@softhome.net Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: camera varnish Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 Avoiding the polical commentary - I will try to contribute to the technical discussion at hand. There are several suppliers of finely divided carbon - the first that comes to mind is Cabot Corporation. The best carbon pigments will be prepared for the printing industry followed by automotive paints. The varnish of which you have been speaking is likely an old nitrocellulose lacquer formulation. This was used as top coats on automobiles, in color cards for paint stores and in custom hot rods where it would be layered until it was as hard as porcelain. Another use was in nail polish. As in nail polish, the best solvents were extremely active - such as acetone. But you need one more component. Since you want a flat finish you need a flatting agent. You cannot load the polymer with enough fine carbon to make the surface reflectance appear diffuse. The real trade secret in this lens lacquer will the flatting agent. It will need to have a high surface area and a medium to large particle size and yet a firm surface to keep the final film durable. House paints often use talc or clay- which gives them the soft, easily burnished surface. Likely, this scientific application added some form of silica to extend, roughen and toughen the surface. Danny Rich "Jim Klein" acmeoptics@earthlink.net wrote... > rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) wrote: > > >see kodak's formula at top of > >http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/misc/kodakblacklaquer.doc > > > >hth bobm > > Has anyone had success mixing it for their own use? The lamp black > needs to be extremely fine. Is there a source for super fine lamp > black? > > Jim
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 From: "Mike Elek" melek@fptoday.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Tiltall tripod...fixing scratches Micro-tools.com sells aluminum black, which works reasonably well. It's a dye. It stains the aluminum. -- Mike Elek See my classic camera collection: http://host.fptoday.com/melek/pages/cameras-1.html
From rangefinder mailing list: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 From: Peter Wallage peterwallage@btinternet.com Subject: RE: Paint your camera .... Hi Chandos, Have look at 'Rangefinder Cameras of the Soviet Era' under the section 'Paint it Black' The site address is http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis/index.html regards from Peter Wallage
From rangefinder mailing list: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 From: Chandos Michael Brown cmbrow@wm.edu Subject: RE: [RF List] Paint your camera Hi, Peter, I read that interesting article some time ago. The author sandblasted the original finish off the FED, which seems to me a bit heroic. I would have used crushed walnut shells, I think, if I had a sandblasting setup, which I don't. I'm investigating both chemical removal of the chrome and nickel finish and electro-chemical (reverse electroplate) removal, which I can accommodate with apparatus I have at hand. Shintaro uses two separate chemical baths (muriatic acid works for chrome, as I've already discovered) and another for the nickel (which is the most substantial of the platings on a Leica). He tells me that these are both available in Japan, but can't tell me what, exactly they are. Non-cyanide based stripping solutions are commonly available now, and I'm focussing my efforts on locating a source for these--as in less than 50 gallon drums. My aim is to remove the finish without removing *any* of the brasswork beneath, if for no other reason than to keep the engravings sharp and intact for later filling. Shintaro charges upwards of $600 to paint an M. I'm aiming to keep the material costs of this project (excepting tools--most if which I already own) at less than $125. We'll see whether this is possible or not. Any chemists out there? I'm all ears. Chandos
From rangefinder mailing list: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 From: Peter Wallage peterwallage@btinternet.com Subject: RE: Paint your camera Chandos Michael Brown wrote: > Hi, Peter, "..... I'm investigating both chemical removal of the chrome and nickel > finish and electro-chemical (reverse electroplate) removal, which I can > accommodate with apparatus I have at hand...." Hi Chandos, I thought you might have seen Paint it Black, but I mentioned it just in case. Re reverse electroplating, I've got a pre-war Ikoflex on which I want to nickel plate some of the parts, and I have a note of a site to do with restoring old radios which mentions nickel plating small parts at home. The guy uses a stainless steel stripping anode in an ordinary nickel plating solution. If it's any help you can find it at: http://www.concentric.net/~stwradio/nickel.htm Regards, Peter
From: Phil Hobbs pcdh@us.ibm.com Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Black paints such as Aeroglaze Z306 supplier and information Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 Wenhai Liu wrote: > > I am looking for some small quantity of Black paint samples. These > paints will be used for infrared stray light control inside an optical > component. Seems a popular one is Aeroglaze Z306 by Lord Corp. However > they only sell it with a minimum order of 5 gallon. > > Anyone in research labs or any suppliers have some Aeroglaze Z306 that I > can get some samples? Or other blak paints such as Martin Black paint ( > not sure which company makes this), HUghson black paint? > > Any suggestion or comments are appreciated. Thanks. Flat black is a last resort for baffles--you'd be amazed at how non-black it can be, especially near grazing incidence, and especially if it's in your detector's field of view. You're much better off with shiny black surfaces arranged so as to trap the front surface reflections. IIRC, Breault first made his reputation by showing the Hubble team what a mistake it would be to rely on flat black--something like a factor of 10**5 worse than properly designed shiny black baffles. The prototype of this approach is Wood's horn, a curved, tapered glass tube with lampblack on the *outside*. Nowadays you'd use black paint, such as Krylon Ultra-flat black spray paint (Sherwin-Williams, Solon, Ohio) instead of lampblack, which still gives ~10**-4 reflectance against fused quartz per bounce, near normal incidence. Krylon is hardware-store paint, but is a reasonable choice for most purposes. A black-paint surface in air isn't a highly effective absorber, because of the index mismatch between the binder/carbon black mixture and air. It's very much better for *internal* reflections, i.e. a glass-paint interface instead of air-paint. The OSA Handbook of Optics (Vol II, I think) has a articles on black surfaces and baffles that are worth reading before you go too far down the flat black trail. Cheers, Phil Hobbs
[Ed. note: thanks to Jim Hays for sharing these tips on touch-up paints!! ;-)] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 From: JIM HAYS ace1139@email.msn.com To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu Subject: Touchup For Cameras An English company named HUMBROL makes some very fine touchup paints that are great for cameras. These are really for metal toy soldiers, so they are tough and are great for many projects. I touchup my black auto with it. These paints come in many colors including black and flat black, and they come in small tin cans about an inch and one half tall, really neat. Also, one little trick to fine touchup,is to use the foam backed finger nail sanding boards the ladies sand nails with. These have three grits on the same board , you can do some very fine sanding and polishing with these. You can do some near perfect touchup with these products.
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 From: RMac@aol.com To: rmonagha@mail.smu.edu Subject: re: Kodak black paint This is an update for your page "Flat Black Paint for Lenses and Telescopes..." GREAT SITE! Thanks for all the work you've put into it and the help I've gotten out of it on so many occasions. In response to an inquiry to Eastman Kodak I received the following reply: >Robert, > >The suggested alternative to the Kodak #4 Brushing Lacquer which has >been discontinued is: > >OPEX Dead Flat Black Lacquer, M60 B 16 > >Manufactured by: Sherwin-Williams >Nearest Sherwin-Williams dealer >Refer to: 1-800-474-3794 > >Thank you for visiting the Kodak web site > >http://www.kodak.com/go/professional > >If you should have any questions on Kodak products or services, please >be sure to revisit our site as we are continually adding information to >enhance our support. If you need further assistance you may also reach >us at 1-800-242-2424 ext. 19 (Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm EST) > > >Regards, > >Peter V. >Kodak Information and Technical Support >Kodak Professional > >Original message follows: >------------------------- > >Question: Someone has recommended one of your >products to me, but I can find no mention of it >on your site. > >Where can I purchase Kodak #4 brushing >lacquer? This is a black antireflective coating >for lenses(?) and cameras.
from rangefinder mailing list: Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 From: Daniel Ng dang@ucdavis.edu Subject: retouching black cameras OK, I've finally found the articles in the June 1973 issue of Modern Photography. One of the articles is about converting a Contax II to black. I've scanned the two articles - if you would like jpegs please email me off-list. There are three pages, for a total of about 350kb. I had to request several years of Modern thru our interlibrary loan. Guess I'll take the next few weeks to browse through, check for holes in my old MP collection, and scan tests and columns. Kinda fun - 6/73 was when they introduced my beloved Rapid Omega, the 6x7 interchangable lens rangefinder. It was selling for a higher price than a Bronica S2A! Dan
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 From: Christopher canon7dude@yahoo.com To: classic35mmcompacts@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Classic 35mm Compacts] Paint it black Already being done, see shintaro's site: http://homepage2.nifty.com/Shintaro/aboutpainting.html of course $700 to look like new (black paint, Dent removal, and leather) would put most rangefinders in a whole new league. Why not get some cool new leather while you are at it here: http://www.cameraleather.com/ Then we see what we can get on e-bay or better yet we do what some russian dealers do strip the paint down to the bare brass, polish it and call it a "Golden Finish" and charge double! -Chris --- In classic35mmcompacts@y..., "rbf451" sf3ca@y... wrote: > Hi, that sure is part of it. Black is more 'candid' and looks more > pro but chrome or silver is in my opinion prettier. I remenber, in > the old days, that a body available in both 'colors' was usually $20 > more in black. I think that guideline is still valid today to > determin what is overprice. With a premium way over that, maybe we > should buy chrome ones, paint them black and resell with a nice > profit :)
From: "Michael" mbush@deletethis.maine.rr.com Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Black painting on the edges of lens Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 one option would be to use Epotek 320 (an epoxy). If I remember correctly, something like a micron of it blocks 99.99+% of light at most wavelengths. do a search; epotek's got a website oh, and a word to the wise--don't wear good clothes the day you use it--it has a nasty habit of getting on everything in sight..... "YW Choi" ywchoi@satreci.com wrote > Dear, > > I am trying to apply black painting to the edges of lens. > I wonder if anybody can recommend optical black materials for applying > to glass for example, BK7 or Fused Silica. > > I have a plan to apply to Chemglaze (Aeroglaze) Z306. > But I found that I do not know what to do with glass. > I tried Chemglaze Z306 for metal application with primers. > > The question springs to my mind is: Do I need primer for glass > application? > > The lens with black painting will be used in vacuum environment (the > painting material should be low outgassing material.) with a little > bit higher temperature of upto 70 C degree. > > Please kindly help me to find out the proper material or how to treat > Chemglaze Z306. > > Thank you > > Young
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 From: Michael Hendrickson mhh@pacbell.net To: Cameramakers List cameramakers@rosebud.opusis.com Subject: [Cameramakers] Re: Flat Black Bellows Lining Hi, In the past I've used regular black 100% cotton cloth for bellows lining with good results. Just look for the stuff that looks black enough. Once your eyes are accustomed to the light in the store, the comparison is easier than you might think. Go ahead and trust your eyes, or bring a light meter with you to compare the fabrics. The only problem I ever had with this is having to be very careful when applying adhesive; too much too soon and it'll bleed through to the inside, leaving a mess to clean up before folding the bellows. But even that can be avoided with care; apply two thin coats, letting the first coat dry before applying the second one. If you're very particular you can dye the fabric before using it but this almost certainly is unnecessary; I'd wash it in cold water once before using it to knock off some of the factory sheen and sizing, dull it down a little. It's funny how much light a nice dead black piece of cloth can reflect! Once I was photographing some sculpted glass pieces for some friends. They brought over a really nice deep black piece of velvet to use for background/base. I metered it and all kinds of light was reflecting off that thing! We ended up using black background paper; it reflected close to two stops less light! Even though it didn't appear as deep a black as the velvet. But the velvet had lots of little specular reflections coming off of it. The resulting black and white photos told the tale; those pieces looked like they were just floating there. Hope this helps. 'Bye for now, --Michael mhh@pacbell.net
From russian camera mailing list: From: "Jim Blazik" jcblazik@lasal.net To: russiancamera-user@beststuff.com Subject: Re: [Russiancamera] To Black Paint Masters Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 Zhang-- Actualy, the people at your paint shop will be able to tell you everything you want to know, and probably far more than I could tell you. So far as de-chroming goes, I use a combination of sand blasting and hand sanding with a variety of grits, both in the blasting and with the paper. In many ways, this is a better process than electro-chemical removal of the chrome. First, because of the many environmental concerns there are with the metals and solutions used in electroplating (and the reversal processes that are involved in de-chroming), and second because the paint will adhere better to the metal when the actual surface areas are increased with the addition of extremely small scratches and pits (i.e. the microscopic scratches and pits left by the sand blasting and/or hand sanding. Surface preparation prior to painting is critical; the surface must be absolutely clean or the paint won't bond with the metal. The use of an etching primer makes the actual bond with the metal, and then the paint binds with the primer. The biggest challenge is learning how thick the coats of primer and paint must be, and that's something no book or explanation can teach anyone, its something that's learned by hand. Too thin, and when you compound the painted piece you'll cut right through it; too thick and you'll end up flooding the engraved logos and serial numbers and what not with paint such that they lose their 'edge' and make highlighting with an accent color difficult. So far as having an auto body shop paint your parts, any good body man will know all these things and should have the knowledge to be able to produce any result you could want. My only concern would be that the kinds of spray guns automotive body shops use won't have the control that's needed for really small parts like camera top plates and so forth. The ideal (I think) is to apply controlled coats paint with a airbrush because you can better control the amount of paint and apply it more thickly or thinly as and where its needed, giving greater emphasis to edges and corners than on flat surfaces (where a logo or etching is) is tricky, but it can be done with an airbrush. Baking the finish is fairly standard, and the paint store person can tell you the optimal temperatures and times for whatever paint it is you're using. With standard paints (i.e., straight from the manufacturer, not some custom blend), instructions and times and temperatures are usually on the label. I bake my things in a simple booth I made. Heat source is nothing more than several standard light bulbs that I trial-and-errored together so that the temp stays constant at around 150 degrees F (the recommended temp for the automotive paints I use) and I usually just let it bake over night. BTW, I use the lacquer stick accent paint that's sold by MicroTools. That takes some practice too, but it isn't difficult to learn how to do. Apply the pigment, let it dry for half an hour or so, wipe off the excess with bits of paper towels, but don't try to remove ALL the excess or you'll end up pulling the paint out of the etched lines, too. But with MOST of the excess gone, let it dry and give it a short baking (I just suspend it on one of the racks in my gas oven for 5 or 10 minutes). Then, use rubbing compound to remove the last of the excess. Bake again, buff out, and wax. These are some of the things that work for me, but different paints and different processes will ineviteably require other procedures, and I expect others have different techniques, too. Whatever, if you do nothing else, CLEAN THINGS THOROUGHLY BEFORE PAINTING and DO NOT TOUCH THEM WITH YOUR FINGERS. WEAR LINTLESS GLOVES, AND BUILD WIRE FRAMES/HOOKS TO HOLD PARTS SUCH THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TOUCH THEM UNTIL AFTER THE FINAL COAT OF PAINT HAS BEEN APPLIED. Hope that helps. Jim
From: "Michael" mbush@deletethis.maine.rr.com Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Lens edge blacking Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 you want "epotek 320" from Epoxy Technology... they're on the web.... "Peter Swanson" peter@cygnetuk.demon.co.uk wrote > On behalf of a customer, I am looking for a paint or coating which is > used to black the edge of a glass lens. I am told that a simple black > paint, say, will not work, as it appears grey when inspected through the > lens - refractive index is important? > > TIA, > Peter
From: chrisjhodges@yahoo.com (Chris Hodges) Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Lens edge blacking Date: 19 Dec 2002 ... Peter, Depending on your application (power etc), you may get away with humbrol matt black enamel. I've used it successfully on mirrors (1st surface) and it bonds nicely to the glass. It doesn't like much power though. Chris Hodges
From: "L. Michael Roberts" none@NoSpamThanks.net Newsgroups: alt.lasers,sci.optics Subject: Blacker black Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 From: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_747664.html?menu=news Scientists develop darkest substance on earth British scientists have invented the darkest material on Earth. The super-black coating was developed by researchers at the National Physical Laboratory in London. It could revolutionise optical instruments because it reflects 10 to 20 times less light than the black paint currently used to reduce unwanted reflections. The key to the nickel and phosphorous coating's blackness is that its surface is pitted with microscopic craters. "Super-black" is especially effective at absorbing light which hits it at an angle. With the light source at right angles, the coating reflects less than 0.35%. Black paint reflects about 2.5% - seven times more. One of the early applications might be on star-trackers, navigational aids which help spacecraft stay on course by fixing on pinpricks of light in the heavens. The material could also be used in works of art. NPL says several artists have shown an interest. Nigel Fox, who heads the optics group at NPL, said: "When you look at the black, it is an incredibly beautiful surface. It's like black velvet." -- L. Michael Roberts
From: Andrew Resnick andy.resnick@NOSPAM.grc.nasaDOTgov Newsgroups: alt.lasers,sci.optics Subject: Re: Blacker black Date: 7 Feb 2003 L. Michael Roberts wrote: > From: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_747664.html?menu=news See the following: M. J. Persky, "Review of black surfaces for space-borne infrared systems", Rev. Sci. Instrum. 70, 2193 (1999) Covers 20 surface coatings Also see: Steven R. Meier, "Characterization of highly absorbing black appliques in the infrared", App. Opt. 40, 2788 (2001) Steven R. Meier, "reflectance and scattering properties of highly absorbing black appliques over a broadband spectral region", App. Opt. 40, 6260 (2001) ... -- Andrew Resnick, Ph. D. National Center for Microgravity Research NASA Glenn Research Center
From camera fix mailing list: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 From: Jim Brokaw jbrokaw@pacbell.net Subject: Re: Black enamel paint Abdon at abdon@sillypages.com wrote: > Black enamel paint > > Can somebody point me to a good kind/brand of spray paint to repaint black > camera enamel? Is there an easy setup for two-part lacquers or something > similar? I can get good results by completely removing the old finish; I > just can't find the durability I'm after. > > Please don't turn this into a meaning of life "thou-shall not mess with thy > old finish" debacle. You really don't want to hear my take on that :) > > - Abdon Back when I was into restoring old cars, the ultimate paint was Dupont Imron. This is a two-part paint, you would need to buy a quart, some catalyizer, and the special thinner. You would need a compressor and a small spray gun, maybe an airbrush-type gun would be enough for small camera bits. The vapors from the thinner and hazardous so you should work in a (clean) garage or ventilated area... Familiarity with spraying techniques is assumed... the end result was a paint that was extremely durable. I had a friend who painted his wheel rims with the silver color, they looked very nice and endured several tire changes without any scratching or paint damage. There are probably other 'epoxy' type two-part paints around, but I don't know much about how durable they are. The nice thing about auto paints is that they can be tinted to any desired color, matteing agent can be added to get just the right amount of 'dullness' and there is even a 'flex' agent that can be added to allow the paint film to flex with a plastic bumper for instance. The downside is that they are much more expensive than spray cans... a quart can cost $30 or more. -- Jim Brokaw
From camera fix mailing list: Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 From: "Vincent" jonyquik@netscape.net Subject: Re: Black enamel paint Abdon, I do not have any real experience with repainting cameras, as the only restorations I was ever involved in was years ago with older Linhof Model IIIs, and those were crinkle finish, however I am into building model cars, and I have used Duplicolor Laquers available from your local automotive store in small cans to put nice finishes on those both in plastic, and balsa wood. It helps to heat the cans before spraying in a pot of previously heated, almost boiling water. This helps to increase the pressure in the can for spraying, and further atomizes the paint making it easier to get a good final wet finish that doesn't run. Most recently I rebuilt an electric guitar, and finished it with white pearl after a number of good primer coats, and it seems to be quite durable. I don't really know if this will help, but I think its worth a try. The finish can be brought to a duller finish after it hardens by rubbing it out with rottenstone, available from furniture finishers. Good Luck !!! Vincent ...
from camera test mailing list: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 From: "Austin Franklin" darkroom@ix.netcom.com Subject: RE: Anyone here paint cameras black? Hi Vick, > What other paints are good to use? > > And what are good techniques to fill those tiny lines? Anyone here from > Leitz and use to do this kind of work? Want to share your secrets? I use Testor's paint...it's an enamel. I take a brush and fill in the letters, then with a rag SLIGHTLY dampened with alcohol I lightly wipe off the excess. I don't get any ghosting (it cleans up pretty well) or black paint removal from the body/lense with alcohol. Austin
from camera test mailing list: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 From: "Abdon" abdon@sillypages.com Subject: RE: Anyone here paint cameras black? My favorite is nail enamel, available in many shades from white to near white. There are just as many options for black. I usually paint, then use a cardboard such as a business card to scrape it flush. Once things dry a bit I wipe it clean with naphtha. - Abdon
From camera fix mailing list: Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 From: "Jim Simmons" jimsim@adelphia.net Subject: Re: Black touch up on Canon Go down to the local "True Value" and get a 2oz bottle of "Liquitex" Acrylic artist color -Ivory Black-. Looks good and it will take wear. It also blends it nicely with the other paint. Remember it is thinned with water not turpentine or oils. Jim Simmons
From: arfty1166@aol.com (Arfty1166) Newsgroups: sci.optics Date: 13 Jan 2003 Subject: Re: Really Black Black alexander@draebenstedt.de >You could try black velvet, honestly! The dense parallel, vertical >fibers are all lit endface-on and make it very black. A similar stuff >is used as seal on film cardridges. Not a good idea at the wavelengths he is working at. Many velvets use a metallic based dye and are actually highly reflective beyond 750 nm... If you get the right velvet, it is fine but... You might try some of the black polyester materials that are used as polishing substrates. These are self adhesive and some of them I've found to be quite ( less than 2%R) black. Art Springsteen Avian Technologies LLC
From: Rperkdog@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 To: russiancamera-user@mail.beststuff.com Subject: [Russiancamera] Re: Black painting discoveries Dear Dave, Good old flat black inside the RF top cover certainly won't hurt anything , especially with those RRF's that have the prisims just sort of ,well,attached under the covers, like the FEDs, although, if you have worked on the Zorki cameras, you have noticed the entire RF assembly in encased, not exposed. I just came down from the shop where I had to do some additional painting on the collar that surrounds the shutter release on my Zorki C, and I just finished priming the frame counter disc that lies under the winding knob. I'v discovered that the best Dupli-color product is the one labeled "Black-Black", designed for SUV finished. I mentioned that it is acrylic lacquer.....Once the lacquer cures (48 hrs) you can apply a light rubbing of say, Turtle Wax rubbing compound, to eliminate any orange peel, and when it is rubbed out, rinsed with water and polished...the result is really first class. The only caution I would share here, using lacquer, is that you have to apply at least three light coats to get the thickness you need to actually rub the paint out with compound and not simply just take off the paint! Lessons learned from the cruel school of "Re-do it,Perkins!" Dupli-color SUV Gloss black, acrylic lacquer...good stuff! Let me know how your project goes, Dave. I like to see what other folks are doing! Sincerely, Robert Perkins, Rperkdog@aol.com
From: jscheuch@labsphere.com (Jonathan Scheuch) Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Where to get flat black paint? Date: 21 Jul 2003 One minor qualification to the discussion so far. The Krylon paint that has been mentioned is their spray paint and the exact color is "Ultra Flat Black". It is available in most hardware stores. For best optical results and adhesion on aluminum, black anodize the parts first. A point to remember, a flat black finish is best in most optical applications. But, in certain applications such as certain baffle designs and light traps a gloss black finish is best. With a flat black finish their is always some backscatter along the direction from which the light came, a gloss black finish will minimize this effect. Jonathan Scheuch
From: "Bob May" bobmay@nethere.com Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Where to get flat black paint? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 Like Jim, I've been using the Floquil Engine Black for my black paint. I spray it thinned out so that the binder is more hidden. Seems to do an excellent job for me and the surface is still black even at a glancing angle. The stuff is a lacquer based paint and, unfortunately, is getting more rare as the railroad types tend to prefer the water based paints more than before. The pigments in the Floquil paints are extra fine ground so that they cover well without a lot of thickness. -- Bob May
From: jsanders@swales.com Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Where to get flat black paint? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 "Bob Knowlden" nkbob@comcast.net wrote: >Krylon Ultra Flat Black is (or was - haven't looked for it for a few years) >pretty good. > >I found some at a Sherwin Williams paint shop (same parent company); had no >luck at Walmart. > >3M Nextel was the classic high-performance flat black paint, but the Nextel >name has been sold several times over the years. It may now belong to >Mankiewicz Coatings. > >Some titanium alloy parts in a project at work are coated with Chemglaze, >which is a two-part (urethane?) coating. It looks quite gray compared to >some neighboring aluminum parts which were coated with Martin Black (an >anodic coating, from Lockheed Martin). However, Martin Black is dendritic, >and can't be cleaned easily (or touched, at all). Chemglaze is now called Aeroglaze. The flat black is Aeroglaze Z-306 (dielectric) or Aeroglaze Z-307 (electrically conductive). Lord Corporation manufactures it. It is a po;yurethane; you probably want to prime the surface before painting it. Jack
From: "Bob Knowlden" nkbob@comcast.net Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Where to get flat black paint? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 Krylon Ultra Flat Black is (or was - haven't looked for it for a few years) pretty good. I found some at a Sherwin Williams paint shop (same parent company); had no luck at Walmart. 3M Nextel was the classic high-performance flat black paint, but the Nextel name has been sold several times over the years. It may now belong to Mankiewicz Coatings. Some titanium alloy parts in a project at work are coated with Chemglaze, which is a two-part (urethane?) coating. It looks quite gray compared to some neighboring aluminum parts which were coated with Martin Black (an anodic coating, from Lockheed Martin). However, Martin Black is dendritic, and can't be cleaned easily (or touched, at all). HTH. Bob Knowlden Spam dodger may be in use. Replace nkbob with bobkn. "Peter Albrecht" mynameisnobody@sbcglobal.net wrote > Hi, does anybody know a source for small quantities of flat black > paint as used inside cameras, telescope optics etc.? Kodak used to > have a very dull black "Brushing Lacquer" used by camera repair > people, but it's been discontinued for years. Hardware store flat > black isn't nearly as good. > > Note my return address is plalbrecht at aol.com, not the bogus one > indicated in this header (my feeble attempt to stop spam). > > Thanks in advance, > > Pete
From: arfty1166@aol.com (Arfty1166) Newsgroups: sci.optics Date: 16 Jul 2003 Subject: Re: Where to get flat black paint? >Hi, does anybody know a source for small quantities of flat black >paint as used inside cameras, telescope optics etc.? Kodak used to >have a very dull black "Brushing Lacquer" used by camera repair >people, but it's been discontinued for years. Hardware store flat >black isn't nearly as good. > >Note my return address is plalbrecht at aol.com, not the bogus one >indicated in this header (my feeble attempt to stop spam). > >Thanks in advance, Hi, We have a very good flat black that is <3%R (Krylon is about 4.5% R) over most of the UV-Vis-NIR. It really needs to be sprayed on but is very flat (<1% gloss, even at 60 deg). It's certainly not as cheap as Krylon but it's a scientific coating. Email me at arts@aviantechnologies.com if you'd like a data sheet. Best regards, Art Springsteen Avian Technologies LLC
From: Acme Optics acmeoptics@earthlink.net Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Where to get flat black paint? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 All the good stuff was banned. Krylon flat black isn't too bad. Chemglaze Z306 only comes in 1 gal cans. They need to ship it in cans that big to accomodate the warning labels. With Chemglaze Z306, you need to be very careful when dumping it down the drain. If you don't chase it with a gallon of acetone followed by 2 gallons of MEK followed by a gallon of pure Ethel alcohol, the sink trap pugs up real bad. :-) Kodak Brushing Lacquer was the best. I found three bottle in 1997 in a photo store in Fort Bragg, CA. I've just about gone though one bottle. I sealed the other two with wax and they seem to be in fine shape. The really good news is that flat black house paint (Glidden spread satin) is only 50% worse than the best Z306 and it is water based (I think). No flat blacks are any good at grazing incidence. Even my virgin sample of Martin black is gray starting at 75 deg off normal incidence. Spraying flat black is better than brushing it, even with Kodak lac. Black Engine Black from Floquil (Railroad Hobby Shops) is good, it is solvent based and it should be just fine as long as after it dries you don't touch it. That is true for all flat black finishes. Good luck, Acme Optics Peter Albrecht mynameisnobody@sbcglobal.net wrote: >Hi, does anybody know a source for small quantities of flat black >paint as used inside cameras, telescope optics etc.? Kodak used to >have a very dull black "Brushing Lacquer" used by camera repair >people, but it's been discontinued for years. Hardware store flat >black isn't nearly as good. > >Note my return address is plalbrecht at aol.com, not the bogus one >indicated in this header (my feeble attempt to stop spam). > >Thanks in advance, > >Pete
From: arfty1166@aol.com (Arfty1166) Newsgroups: sci.optics Date: 14 Sep 2003 Subject: Re: Optical Flat Black Paint sjnoll@dontspambig-list.com (Steve J. Noll) wrote: >I'm curious... where did you find the reflectance readings for the >Flat Black Model paints? I have just obtained four different types >of these paints in order to do some experiments. I might save >myself some time if you already have good data. Hi Steve, I have a fairly good database of such coatings. I'm on the road right now, but email me at arts@aviantechnologies.com and let me know what you want. BTW: About 2-3 % is about as good as you're going to get with a flat black coating. Jonathan Scheuch mentioned Krylon UFBlack, which is about 4.5% in the vis. We make a coating called Avian Black-S which is in the 2.1-2.4% range. That's about as good as is commercially available right now... Cheers! Art Springsteen Avian Technologies LLC
From: jscheuch@labsphere.com (Jonathan Scheuch) Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Optical Flat Black Paint Date: 11 Sep 2003 "Joseph H. Labrum" joseph@labrumopticaleng.com wrote > Hi Everyone. > > A month or two ago there was a good exchange of info about "Optical Black > Paint(s)". I said to myself," Thais interesting, but I don't need that info > right now." Wues what. Now I do. I tried to find the formula for Kodak's > black lacquer on the Kodak web site but to no avail. > > I need a very durrable , ultra flat black paint for the film film backing > plate(s) in my Hasselblad film magazines. > > Thanks for your help. > > Joseph Labrum Whenever the conversation turns to optical black paint, the 2 questions that arise are, "How black do you need, in other words how low does the reflectance have to be?" and "How flat does it need to be, in other words do you care enough to wonder what the BRDF looks like?". A really good, commercially available paint is Krylon Ultra Flat Black spray paint. It is available in most hardware stores and is very durable when applied to a properly prepared surface. People use this type of Krylon paint to paint outdoor furniture, etc. I have used it in many optical applications. Jonathan Scheuch
From: "Scrim" TotallySpamOverloaded@none.com Newsgroups: sci.optics Subject: Re: Optical Flat Black Paint Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 I'm pretty certain that formulae for Kodak's black lacquer is incomplete. Note that it indicates only "Hazardous Components" and consists entirely of a mixture of solvents and Lampblack (also called Carbon Black). This would produce a black paint but without some kind of binder/varnish it would just rub or fall off when dry. Getting the binder right without spoiling the matt black effect would be quite tricky I think. You need the right material and the right amount. The amount is likely to be small so it just sticks the particles together without having any other effects (like giving it a glossy finish). You can find all the previous newsgroup discussions on this using a Google Groups search. For example, there is loads of stuff here: (you may have to rejoin the parts of this address and past it into your browsers address bar): http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr;=lang_en&ie;=UTF-8&oe;=UTF-8&q;=Kodak+black+lacquer&btnG;=Google+Search ...
From camera fix mailing list: Date: Mon, 9 Feb 04 From: Peter Frederick psfred@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Black "paint" for edges of lens elements Testor's Military Flat Black. Thin about 20% with the Testor's thinner. Works great, also works nicely for re-flocking Russian and Ukranian cameras were the factory used semi-gloss instead of flat black flocking paint. Peter Frederick
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