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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998
From: Jeffrey W Green jewgreen@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
So I decided to open up the 3.5E to clean the shutter and clean and
lube the focusing mechanism. (Someone help Mark over there, he's
gasping for breath)
The beautiful 3.5E I just bought is great except that the shutter has
the typical sticking at the slow speeds. I also suspected that the
focusing is not quite as smooth as it could be.
Here are a few notes from the field that might help others:
Don't try this unless you have done other camera repairs before
(cheaper cameras). It get's pretty hairy, and you need to have the
tools and lubrication stuff right there.
The Synchro-Compur shutter is one of the most complicated there is. On
the other hand, it's not THAT bad (someone had to build it). The
things I thought would be BAD were actually far easier, and vica
versa. It took me two days to build up the courage to go for it, and
now I wouldn't hesitate at all.
One of the hardest things about the whole process was getting the
elements back on WITHOUT DUST in there!! If anyone has any secret
tricks, please share!
I did a typical lighter fluid flush, and silicon and graphite lube.
It works beautifully now, but we'll see when it get's cold out!
This worked really well, and it helped to have Romney's book there
(from my local library no doubt!).
Although things don't come springing out when you take the shutter
apart, there are a couple parts that can fall out, or come off if you
aren't being very careful. Be careful and note where stuff was.
If anyone can help me on getting the rear lens group out, I'd
appreciate it. That was the only thing that I couldn't do (didn't
force it, for fear of breakage). Does it come out from the back using
a spanner in those two holes?
If anyof this helps anyone, great. If it doesn't, tell me to shut up.
Whatever you do, don't go and tear your apart unless it's a junker, or
you have already done another camera before your Rollei!
I'll post notes from Part 2-the focusing assembly after I do that
tonight. (if I don't screw THAT up).
If anyone wants real details on anything, give me a shout. I really
researched this before I opened it up. I'm not a pro-repair person or
anything, just an insane D-I-Y er.
Jeff Green
jewgreen@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
The E is not too tough a camera. Lighter fluid is not the best choice
for cleaning shutters, it can leave an oily residue. Trichloroethylene is
much better although hard to get and expensive these days.
Compur recommends very little lubrication. The retarder needs just a
touch of a very light oil like watch oil. Nyoil, made by the Nye Lubricant
co and available from Fargo Enterprise is good. Spread a drop out on a
smooth surface, like glass or a ceramic (a saucer will do) and use a small
fine brush to pick it up and apply it to the gear spindles. The main
spring should be lubed with a little Molycoat light grease, also available
from Fargo. Nothing else gets lubricated. The Silicone/graphite is likely
to gum up quickly.
The focusing cams are lubed with a light damping grease. The focusing
should feel just a little tight. The cam followers are spring loaded to
eliminate back-lash in focusing and the whole thing should have enough
resistance so that the lens board will not move easily when pushed.
Be very careful when disassembling the front to notice and record the
location of all washers and shims, they need to go back exactly as
removed.
There are some other sources of information about Rollei repair which
will be helpful. I've posted these to the list before.
First, John S. Craig has photocopies of factory manuals for both
Rolleiflex/Cord cameras and Compur shutters. http://www.craigcamera.com
There are also reprinted manuals available from the sucessor to National
Camera. Someone posted the address but I now can't find it.:-(
The first Prochnow book _Rollei Technical Report_ has extensive drawings
and adjustment instructions in both German and English. Probably factory
production line final adjustment procedures.
The E has a cloth bellows internally which makes disassembling the front
more difficult than in earlier models. I don't know a trick for getting
the rear lens cell off without taking the lens board off although it can
probably be unscrewed using a rubber friction tube. Fargo sells these too.
I suggest anyone wanting to try working on Rolleis arm him/her self with
as much literature as possible and start with a junker Automat or
Rolleicord. They are simpler than the later cameras but are essentially
the same in the philosophy of construction and focus mechanism (excepting
very early Rolleis which have a different focusing arrangement.)
Good luck and have fun.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998
From: Tony Zoccolillo tzoc@servtech.com
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
...What did you lubricate in the shutter? It's best to let it run dry
except of maybe a tiny tiny bit of Nyoil or watch oil at the axles of the
slow speed gears and self timer gears. I put a tiny droplet on the gear
axle post then wipe it off with a q-tip wet with Methanol. Also, lighter
fluid does work, but it can also leave residue behind if it's not pure.
Your better of using methanol or even better is freon (but not cheap
anymore due to EPA and DOT regulations). If you use methanol, be aware
that it does absorb water so it may leave small droplets of water that
could rust. If you use methanol, be sure to use a blow drier to gently
heat the shutter to dryness. I prefer freon or one of the substitutes like
Asahiklin AK225 that Fargo sells. If you can get ahold of some methylene
chloride (dichloromethane) from a laboratory supply house, this also works
great and, like freon, is non-flammable, though not as safe to use due to
fumes and potential toxicity.
I would NEVER use graphite power to lubricate anything in any camera. It
might work great today, but eventually will lockup. Metal on metal moving
parts that experience routine friction should be lubed with molylube or
"white lube" which is a molybdium based lubricant that will hold up well
under friction. For parts which require free movement, Nyoil (which is a
very light weight oil), is best. A good general rule for lubrication of a
shutter is, "If it works dry, don't lube it".
Dust and the rear group...(you didn't cleaned the shutter with the rear
group still in place?) Removing the rear group can be a pain. If you
don't have a span wrench long enough to reach, you can remove the entire
shutter assembly from the front standard and work on it that way. I have
an old drafters compass that is about 6 inches long. I filed the points of
the compass off to form slotted tips like a span wrench has. Another
alternative is get a set of rubber stoppers of various sizes. Any lab
supply should have then cheap enough. As for the dust, I like using the
squeeze ball type of blower. You might try using a room humidifier to
minimize airborne dust.
Your advice on getting a junker to practice on is correct and very
important. An excellent practice camera is a Yashicamat (preferable not a
124 or 124G).
good luck,
Tony Zoccolillo
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
How to clean a shutter properly:
Get yourself a film can from a 100 foot roll of 35 mm film. The metal
ones. Take a piece of wood and a piece of foam rubber. Glue the can to
the rubber and the rubber to the wood. Find or buy an old-fashioned door
bell, and hook up the mechanism so that the knocker hits against the
rubber. Instant vibration cleaner -- a lot cheaper than one of those
ultrasonic doobers.
Fill film can with cleaning solution. Immerse shutter, turn on old
doorbell, leave room for a few hours. The vibration action keeps the
cleaning solution percolating throughout the shutter.
Take the shutter out and let dry thoroughly. Lube sparingly, if at all.
I use the little metal gadgets sold for watch repair to apply the oil.
They are thin rods of various thicknesses with a tiny knob on the end.
Usually in color coded sets. Each size delivers a precise amount of oil.
In the old days we used spermaceti oil (whale oil), but that has been
banned internationally. We switched from that to porpoise jaw oil (still
used in Japan), but that is now verboten as well. So use synthetic
lubricants or jojoba bean oil, which has characteristics very similar to
whale oil.
Be VERY careful in cleaning really old shutters. I once discovered that an
old shutter had celluloid blades the hard way -- the damned blades totally
dissolved in my cleaning solution!!!!
BTW, good sources of lubricants are jeweler's supply companies. You can
also get GOOD small tools from them, oil applicators, mini vises, tiny
lathes, etc. etc. Cheaper than the places which sell camera repair stuff,
and most cities of reasonable size have one or more.
Bob
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998
From: JJMcF JJMcF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
In a message dated 98-03-23 13:37:19 EST, you write:
If anyone can help me on getting the rear lens group out, I'd
appreciate it. That was the only thing that I couldn't do (didn't
force it, for fear of breakage). Does it come out from the back using
a spanner in those two holes?
Try the long (deep) spanner wrench (with set of interchangeable tips) from
Fargo Enterprise. This usually will get any rear lens group out without
making a serious mark or damaging anything.
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
I haven't seen any celluloid blades but have seen hard rubber ones. They
are used in Ilex and older Wollensak shutters and in many other old ones.
They will dissolve in some cleaning solvents particularly MEK.
They will also melt if heated so do not used heat to dry one of these guys.
Trichlorethylene is a safe solvent. It will not dissolve any material
commonly used in shutter manufacture including most plastics or the anti-
reflection paint.
It is considered a hazardous material these days which makes it hard to get
and expensive.
The old standard solvent was Carbon Tetrachloride. Don't use it! Although
its a very satisfactory cleaning agent it is poisonous and a carcinogen.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998
From: "Noel H. Charchuk" nhcharch@calcna.ab.ca
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Any Hints on Cleaning Rolleis?
Try Mint Condition Leather and Vinyl conditioner, available only through
an Amway distributor. It is a lotion that gently cleans, restores some of
the lustre to rubber and plastic, and rejuvenates leather and vinyl. I
have made some really old equipment look a lot better. However, watch out
because they may try recruit you!! ;)Noel Charchuk
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: RE: [Rollei] Repair Fun - Part 1
These were celluloid. At the time I was using ethylene as my cleaning
solution, due to the drying up of most of the ones I had used in the past.
They were in an old pneumatically timed shutter.
Trichlor is a suspected carcinogen just like carbon tet. Associated with
kidney and adrenal cancer. Also, the fumes will get you pretty damned
stoned if you don't have good enough ventilation!
If I was still doing camera repair, I'd probably use watch wash from the
jewelry supply places.
Tuner cleaner from Radio Shack used to be good for flush cleaning, but it
has to be the type without silicon lubricant in it. I don't know if they
still sell it.
Bob
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998
From: Todd Belcher toddmb@intergate.bc.ca
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rolleipol Filter
>Dear Rolleinuts, > >Can the combined wisdom of the group help? I've just bought a Rolleipol >filter (Bay III) in excellent condition, except for serious separation of >the polaroid material!!! > > I'd like to disassemble the filter and fit a new filter section (any >brand). Has anyone done this before? > >I'd greatly appreciate any positive suggestions! > >Many thanks, >Alan Hoare. >Australia.
Alan
The procedure is a bit difficult in a couple places.
Number one is getting the old glass out...or more to the point getting the
retaining ring off. I have tried many devices to get that ring off before
finally finding a solution that doesn't scratch the side of filter all to
bits. What you need to get are TWO filter removing wrenches, the kind with
a rubber band that grips. If you have an awesome grip you only need one,
but you'd better have a vice grip like clench with barely anything to hold
onto. I tried mounting a Rolleipol on a camera and using just one werench
and ended up damaging the Rolleipols bayonet so don't think about doing it
this way. Just get two of the wrenches and twist away in opposite
directions. It will work, I've done about five like this.
An unusual feature of Rolleipols is that they are coated. Not many
polarising filters are coated as I'm to believe that it is sort of
redundant. I think that there is brand of coated polarising filters being
made for B+W by a different company...but they are expensive. A good
quality polariser will do.
The next problem is finding the right sized replacement filter. But once
you have taken the Rollei filter apart you will know what size you will
need. If you can't find the exact size replacement ... I couldn't...get a
larger size and go to an eye glass place with the separated Rolleipol glass
and the polariser that you need to make smaller and have them grind it down
to the right size. The tolerance is somewhat tight so close may not be
close enough.
Lastly, there is some black old dried tar like substance that holds the
glass in place. I think this is the reason that the glass separates. The
solvents in the tar over the years slowly works on the glue that holds the
two pieces of glass and polarising gel together. After 30 or 40 years the
thing separates. I guess Rollei never tested them for that long. You can
use just about anything here to hold the new glass in place after removing
all of that black stuff. But use something that is "dry" like plastic or
black card with the sides blackened. The glass is held in place by
pressure, so you will have to get the thickness similar to the thickness of
that original black tar. trial and error work well here. Patience is a must.
This is fiddley work, but when it's done you'll have a perfectly good
Rolleipol that will now last longer than the original, due to the removal
of the black tar. The filter removing tool I purchased at a camera swap
meet from an outfit in the USA called Fargo enterprises. I can't find their
address. But shutterbug lists a Micro Tools who stock a lot of camera
tools, and there in their advertisment is a picture of the tool #HG for
$9.50. web page: www.micro-tools.com
Be careful, be patient and success will be yours,
todd.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998
From: Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] in camera meters (new?)
At 02:53 PM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Hello, >> >>I just got a 2.8E, and it appears that the meter is not working. >>Is it possible to get a new meter or to repair/resensitize the meter >>currently in it? >> >>If parts are available to get it working. is the bar across the top >>the part that would be replaced? Or is the meter guage itself? Or is >>it both? >> >>Thanks! >>Jeff Green >>jewgreen@copper.ucs.indiana.edu > >Could be the cell, could be the meter movement, could be both, or could be >neither. Sometimes it is just poor connections. Often if you dismantle >and clean all electrical connections, it will start working again without >replacing anything. > >Bob > > >
Its typical of Selenlium cells that they both loose sensitivity and
become non-linear when they fail. I find that they can be nearly right at
lower light levels and off by a stop or more for bright light. I've never
seen an explanation of the chemical or physical mechanism which causes the
failure. However, excessive heat or moisture will do it. Most "modern"
cells were sealed agains humidity but probably the seal breaks down over
time.
----
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles,Ca.
dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Cleaning focusing screens and grey cameras
>> Dear Rollei fans, >> >> I was just wondering: how is the best way to clean plastic >>focusing screens on Rollei TLR?
For the smooth side, you can use any good lens cleaning fluid and a soft,
clean cotton cloth. Microfiber cloths are good, too.
For the Fresnel side, you can use the same, but you must move the cloth
around the screen in a circular motion, following the Fresnel grooves. I
have not tried it but someone told me that you can get grit out of the
grooves with a record cleaning brush, one of those sold to clean vinyl LP
records. This makes sense to me. You would again have to brush only with
the grooves (or mount your focusing screen on a record turntable!!!).
Bob