Asian Buying Price Savings on Grey Market PhotoGear (to 40%

Savings 40-60% on New Grey Market PhotoGear
Buying in Japan, Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Grand Cayman..

by Robert Monaghan (version 1.2 dated 5/2000)

Related Local Links:
Medium Format Cameras List Page
Medium Format Home Page (see buying guides/reviews)
Medium Format Price Guides
Medium Format Price Issues
Student Discounts (USA) for Med Format Gear

Japan Sites:
Buying Cameras in Japan
Buying Cameras in Japanese Shops
Camera Shopping in Japan (Praveen Murthy)
Japanese Vendors
Nikon Buying Guide to Japan
Sampou Cameras (Japan)
Tips on Buying New 35mm in Japan

Cayman Islands (Caribbean)
Cayman Camera Ltd. (hassy, nikon..)
Cayman Islands

Singapore Sites:
Boon & Co. (Singapore Terminal)
Buying Cameras in Singapore
Cathy Photo Store in Singapore
PhotoBugs List of Singapore Camera Stores

Legal Cases
Copyrighted Grey Market Goods Can't be Stopped by Copyright owner (USA)
Parallel Import (Mamiya) Case (thanks to Rajagopalan Giridhar for the tip!)
USA Tariffs Site

Postings Regarding Stores Overseas that Ship to the USA:
Savings of up to 50% on new Mamiya 7 buying from Asia....
(thanks to Kevin Wu for these site tips!)
Tin Cheung Camera Co. (Hong Kong) [may have moved? 10/2000]

Hong Kong Sites:
Hong Kong Store (Mamiya pages, HK$/US$)

Misc. Sites
Asian Mfgers Listings [12/2003]
Internet U.S. States Tax Collection Tests [1/2001]
Photonet on Buying Overseas (Hong Kong etc.)

Buyer Beware Tips:
Avoiding Pitfalls when Buying Equipment
Caveat Emptor - Tips for Camera Buyers
Grey Market Cameras

Grey Market Legal Cases (USA) [7/2001]
Hong Kong Photographer/Buyer
Jump directly to local postings below

Introduction
With the cost of cameras and lenses so high, who isn't interested in saving money on buying new photography equipment? The above links and posts below will supply you with information on how to save up to 40% and even 60% on some brand new, manufacturer warranteed photo-gear by buying in Asia and other foreign markets. The article below will look at related issues about warranties, saving on VAT and sales taxes, and other money saving ideas.

Currency Related Savings
The current economic downturn in Asia in the late-90s means that unaffected currencies (U.S. dollar, British pounds etc.) buy relatively more than in years past. While these currency savings can be fairly large, they are usually not passed on to consumers by the various middlemen when you buy locally. When you hear the yen is down 15% against the dollar, it also means camera prices in dollar terms likely are down significantly too. But you may see these currency related savings only if you buy direct!

Source of Savings - Cutting out Middlemen
The key to saving the most is to eliminate the costs of those middlemen, particularly where there is an exclusive local importer/distributor with sole rights to import into your country.
In the U.S., for example, we have Hasselblad USA Inc., which serves as the exclusive importer/distributor of Hasselblad products into the U.S. Such an importer/distributor provides many local market services and benefits. But the cost to consumers is an additional layer of middlemen whose costs and salaries have to be paid.
Buying Hasselblad equipment in a country where there is no such extra layer of marketing organization can cut your purchase costs on new Hasselblad equipment by up to 40%. A saving of $2,000 US on a single Hasselblad lens makes investigating foreign direct sales rather profitable.
Many Asian countries don't have exclusive local importer/distributors, so each camera store deals directly with a factory sales representative. They may stock certain popular items, but have to special order other items from the factory (with consequent delays). In the event of a warranty repair, they may also have to ship the problem lens or camera back to the manufacturer for warranty repair work.
But in exchange for these minor risks and delays, they may be able to offer very low overhead markups on factory direct prices. These savings can easily be 30% and even 40% over the prices available after local importer/distributors add their markups to the costs of cameras you can buy locally in the U.S. and elsewhere. In essence, you are buying nearly at factory wholesale prices rather than at retail prices.

Buy and Save via Mailorder
In most cases, you don't need to spend lots of money to actually visit the foreign store to buy what you need or want. If you have a manufacturer's product number from a catalog and description, you can get price quotes and order the item. The usual overseas air freight package delivery services (FedEx, DHL..) can deliver your item in just a few days if in stock. Hint: verify serial numbers before ordering so you know its in stock!
You probably want to pay for your purchase with a credit card, as you get some protections from using such a card over money orders. If you do use money orders, make sure they are international money orders and acceptable to be cashed in that country.
Some related buying ideas and problems to avoid can be found in a companion page on ''Caveat Emptor - Let the Buyer Beware'' at Jeff Albro's IMPACT pages.

Online Lookup of U.S. Tariff Duties

Lookup Tariff Duties

Check Out Import Tariffs and Fees
Different countries have different import tariffs and fees. You obviously need to check locally to see what rules and procedures pertain to your own situation. In the U.S., our relatively open GATT free-trade policies mean that photo-products come in either free or at very low tariffs (circa 0.6% to 6%).
Knowing these tariff duties can save you a lot of money at entry time, as the usual customs practice is to charge a blanket 10% duty on items in excess of your exemptions and exclusions. But the tariff duty rate on a 35mm SLR is only 0.6%, and not 10%. On a $2,000 35mm SLR, that could spell the difference between $200 in duties (10%) and $12 in duties (0.6%). Wow!
Using the above U.S. tariff lookup link, we find that tariffs for lenses and film are also low duty items (e.g., 3.2% and 3.7% respectively). So you can see why U.S. Customs agents rarely bother to waste their time to hassle (voting) tourists to collect them.
Enforcement of tariffs on mailed items is even more spotty, unless you are importing your photogear from restricted countries like Libya or North Korea (not recommended nor likely). The air express service will usually handle this service for you, but be sure to check into fees. Some services may use expensive customs brokers while most others handle the paperwork directly for you for a far more modest fee.
If you do make a trip, you may be able to bring in some or all of your buys under whatever exemptions are available to returning visitors. This varies in the U.S., being more for Caribbean Basin trips ($1,200) than for Europe for example. You might find your lowest cost camera buys would be from that camera store in Grand Cayman Island rather than in Japan, after factoring in tariff exemptions and duties. See Know Before You Go U.S. Customs publication online for more details on exemptions.
You can bring in more items than the value of your exemption, but you will possibly be asked to pay a duty or tariff on the excess amounts. The usual practice is to put your highest tariff rate items under your exemption. This approach minimizes the tariff bill you might be asked to pay.
Another possible approach to savings is the issue of used versus new equipment tariff differences. If you buy a new camera overseas and use it extensively during your long trip, it may be classified as a used camera on your return home even if it is still technically a new camera. Oftentimes, used items may be imported for either lower or even no duty or fees, depending on the item and your country's import laws.
With large tariffs in some non-U.S. countries, some of their photographers have even developed tricks to ensure getting these lower used gear tariff rates. How do you turn a brand new camera into an old looking clunker, and then back again to brand new? The answer requires a set of small screwdrivers and a spare, beat up and dinged faceplate for your planned camera import. Simply unscrew the new faceplate and replace with the dinged up old faceplate. Now your camera not only is used from your trip, but it looks it too! No more problems on re-entry. Once you get home, just swap out the faceplate ''spare parts'' again. Viola! Your old used camera looks just as good as new, even if it was used on your trip. Americans have a different use for this trick, as we will see below.

Avoiding Re-entry Tariffs on Pre-owned Items
Speaking of avoiding re-entry problems, you should be careful of going on a trip with a bagful of photo-gear. Some Customs agents may insist that you pay duties and tariffs on importing your bagful of photo-gear. How can you prove to Customs that the equipment isn't being imported but simply returned home?

From Know Before You Go U.S. Customs Publication

Items such as watches, cameras, tape recorders, or other articles which may be readily identified by serial number or permanently affixed markings, may be taken to the Customs office nearest you and registered before your departure. The Certificate of Registration (CF 4457) provided will expedite free entry of these items when you return. Keep the certificate as it is valid for any future trips as long as the information on it remains legible.

The easiest way to avoid these problems is to have the proper Customs form (CF 4457) filled out, identifying your cameras and lenses and listed items (by serial number etc.). When you return, you simply show this form if any attempts are made to assess duties on your used items. Another useful resource is your camera insurance insured-items listings with serial numbers and descriptions. This listing may also be handy if any of your items are stolen during your trip, e.g., for police reports needed for insurance filings.

Why Japan isn't always the Cheapest Source!
How can I say that? Simply stated, Japan is export market oriented, not consumer oriented as with the U.S. This difference means that you will often find Japanese camera equipment is cheaper outside of Japan. The captive Japanese consumers often find it cheaper to buy in the U.S. or other Asian countries than at home, sad to say. While there are some real bargains in camera goods in Japan, you have to look in the right stores and bargain hard to get them!
In the past, Hong Kong was a fabled source of lowest cost photo-gear. That is still partially true, but some of the big savings have become more moderate with the stronger local currency (late 90's).
Recently, places such as Singapore and Seoul have emerged as low cost sources for new photo-gear. Nearer the U.S., some non-Asian sources in the Caribbean such as Grand Cayman Island photo-stores are benefitting from recent U.S. trade policies. Our Caribbean basin economic stimulus program provides a variety of higher exemptions for returning visitors and higher duty exemptions. The lack of a language barrier in most of the English speaking Caribbean, local banking strengths, plus the relative closeness to U.S. markets and low-cost airfare and tourist sites offer many allures to U.S. buyers. For direct mail order sales, most Caribbean air freight shipping is received overnight.

Local Market and Pro Pricing Policies
One of the factors which will make camera buying a challenging sport is the efforts of manufacturers to open new markets by aggressive price cutting. They hope you won't find out about the special deals being offered to residents of the selected market country (e.g., Israel, India). The opposite is also true, where manufacturers believe that the relatively affluent countries in Europe and the USA should contribute an extra surcharge in prices for profits. Wherever these pricing anomalies exist, camera buyers will have an incentive to cash in on these often significant price differences.
Camera manufacturers may also promote special deals to professional photographers in selected target countries and markets. A given manufacturer (e.g., Canon) wants to put their equipment into the hands of local professional photographers. Eventually, they hope to cash in big in the future when the local amateur and pro photography market expands. To do so, they establish attractive local services and lower prices on their professional camera equipment, especially lenses. Local photography pros suddenly find themselves the world's lowest price buyers for some otherwise rather costly specialty pro lenses. Got any pro photographer friends in the right country?

Local Market Camera Models
Most photographers are aware that Nikon makes camera models in Asia (e.g., FM10 previously) which are not available for purchase in the U.S. The U.S. importer/distributor may not want to compete with higher profitability sales of higher cost and higher markup cameras by importing these lower cost imports.
The manufacturer may not only provide lower costs, but also introduce new lenses and camera feature mixes which are not available in the U.S. market. If you want these cameras, you have to turn to grey market cameras imported by local camera stores, or import them yourself.

Manufacturer's Warranties
In general, you should always enjoy the standard manufacturer's warranty wherever you buy your camera. During the warranty period, you should be able to return your camera to the purchase point for these manufacturer's warranty repairs. To prevent custom's delays, you should clearly mark your package as a temporary import for repair and re-export. Using this tip, U.S. and the foreign manufacturer's customs agencies will not try to delay your package for fees which aren't applicable.
In some countries, and with some camera brands, you may be able to get local manufacturer's warranty services performed provided you can show you are the original purchaser (sales slip). A check with your local manufacturer's repair organization should provide this option if available.
On the other hand, some U.S. importer/distributors refuse to work on grey market cameras either in or out of the warranty period. Nikon USA is often cited as an example. So you may not be able to get Nikon USA to fix your grey market camera. They may only be able to tell it is grey market by the foreign model number, according to some posts below.
Others suggest you are only in trouble if you are buying their very expensive F5 model. The F5 repair manuals and parts have yet to be supplied to non-Nikon USA camera repair techs, supposedly so Nikon USA can determine and fix problems with these cameras faster. Eventually, both the parts and manuals will be released, so local service of even grey market Nikon F5s will be available from local independent service technicians. And you can always send your camera to the factory for servicing, whether in or out of warranty, where service is likely to be as good or better than the local importer/distributor (and hint, often a lot cheaper too).
But in general, both parts and qualified service is widely available in the U.S. and not limited to the technicians at the importer/distributor (e.g., Nikon USA). In fact, we will see that the costs of out-of-warranty repairs is often highest at these importer/distributor repair facilities (up to 500% more than factory trained independent repairers). But even if you imported a grey market F5 that Nikon/USA refused to fix, you could still easily return it to the point of purchase or directly to the manufacturer for the manufacturer's warranty service.
Some posters imply that if you have a grey market camera, that you can't get repairs or parts in the U.S.A. That just isn't so, thanks to consumer protection laws and our independent but often factory trained repairpersons. During the manufacturer's warranty period, it makes more sense to mail off your camera for repair by the manufacturer (e.g., in Japan). For out-of-warranty repairs, you usually will save lots of money by dealing with a good independent camera repairperson.
A few US importers such as Canon USA are reported to not care if a camera was imported by them, as long as it is out-of-warranty. They wisely do the repair, making money from the repairs and keeping their customers happy. Why make your customers mad by turning away repair work that you will profit on, even if the camera is a possible grey market import?

Grey Market Cameras and Lenses
In most cases, a sole local importer/distributor such as Hasselblad USA or Nikon USA or Rollei USA will provide additional warranty services and extended warranty coverage ( 3 to 5 years vs. one year from manufacturer). This extra coverage is part of what your extra costs buy for that 30% to 40% surcharge. Some of these importers maintain a listing of serial numbers of the cameras they have imported and sold, and which are under warranty coverage. If your camera is not imported through them, it is called a ''grey market'' item, and therefore not able to lay claim to their extra services.
A grey market camera can often be repaired for an additional charge, just as if it were any camera whose warranty period had expired. In the U.S., our consumer protection laws under the Federal Trade Commission make it illegal for manufacturers or distributors to withhold access to parts for repairs by any repairperson, affiliated or not - even the consumer. This parts availability protection extends for some years (5 to 7 years on average for photo-gear) after the last cameras of that model are sold in U.S. inter-state commerce.
Check costs of out-of-warranty repairs carefully. For Hasselblad repairs, costs of an out of warranty clean, lubricate, and adjust repair by the U.S. importer/distributor service (Hasselblad USA) were the highest of any source listed and over 500% higher than the lowest U.S. Hasselblad repair facility. My point here is that once your new camera is out of warranty, you may not want to send it to your country's local importer/distributor's factory repair service. Many local camera repair gurus, often factory trained and authorized, will be glad to repair your camera or lens for half or less of what the importer or distributor will charge for out of warranty work.
Other cameras have similar repair costs variations. We have a companion list of repair sites which can provide comparative price quotes and similar savings worldwide. Remember, you can send your camera off to repair by air freight to Japan just about as easily and cheaply as to Massachusetts.
If your country or region doesn't have a local camera repair facility with experience and parts for your brand of camera, consider sending your camera out of country for repairs. The lower cost of overseas camera repair labor can save hundreds of dollars on major repairs to costly professional cameras over time. Be sure to clearly label your mailing as a temporary export for repair package and request the same on the return package. This trick will help you avoid some delays and possible duty or import fee assessments.

Insurance
Insurance for Camera Gear is a related issue. I would suggest that you will usually be much further ahead with typical professional camera insurance (ASMP etc.) or similar homeowner riders than with the often overpriced extended warranties offered and promoted by camera store clerks. Unless you beat up cameras as badly as I do, you probably won't get your money's worth out of these high markup policies. Since these policies are based on price, the higher priced quality pro gear will often have high premiums on pro equipment where you have already paid for high reliability and quality construction. I recommend the broader coverage insurance policies that include theft and other losses over these extended warranty programs as a better way to spend your limited camera insurance dollars.
Many photographers are also confused about the nature of the manufacturer's and importer's warranties on their cameras. These warranties typically only cover manufacturing defects, such as defective chips or cracked internal parts. They are not coverage against damaged or misalignments caused by dropping the camera or mis-handling. Sometimes, an importer may elect to fix some questionable damage under warranty to keep the customer happy, but don't count on it!
So if the importer's repair center believes the damage to the camera was caused by abuse such as a dropped camera or lens, they will generally refuse to repair it under their defective parts warranty coverage for obvious reasons. They will usually make the repairs, but not under warranty, and you will often be charged a substantially higher fee than similar out-of-warranty repairs at an independent repair shop.
In some cases, importers may offer an "extended warranty" which covers virtually all damage to the item (except wars and "acts of God"). In effect, this is an add-on insurance policy for your camera or lens. If you really want such coverage, shop around. Some grey market importers (B&H..;) may offer similar insurance or extended warranties for a modest price.
Frankly, if what you really need is insurance against a variety of possible risks to your camera or lens, you probably need to buy insurance for all of your photo-gear too. Costs for add-on insurance riders for camera gear can be relatively cheap, and much more comprehensive than most manufacturer's or even extended warranties. Our insurance pages provides more information on such resources for both professional and amateur photographers.

Trademark Articles Exemptions (from Know Before Your Go U.S. Customs Pub.)

Foreign-made trademarked articles may be limited as to the quantity which may be brought into the United States if the registered trademark has been recorded with Customs by an American trademark owner.
The types of articles usually of interest to tourists are 1) lenses, cameras, binoculars, optical goods; 2) tape recorders, musical instruments; 3) jewelry, precious metal-ware; 4) perfumes; 5) watches, clocks.
Persons arriving in the United States with a trademarked article are allowed an exemption, usually one article of a type bearing a protected trademark. An exempted trademark article must accompany you, and you can claim this exemption for the same type of article only once each 30 days. The article must be for your personal use and not for sale. If an exempted article is sold within one year following importation, the article or its value is subject to forfeiture.
If the trademark owner allows a quantity in excess of the aforementioned exemption for its particular trademarked article, the total of those trademarked articles authorized may be entered. Articles bearing counterfeit trademarks, if the amount of such articles exceeds the traveler's personal exemption, are subject to seizure and forfeiture.

See Trademark item listing above postings below...

U.S. Buyers Warning re: Trademarks
I need to mention one hidden got-cha for U.S. consumers, that may or may not apply to other foreign buyers too. In the U.S., we have a few unusual situations where a local U.S. importer/distributor has ownership of the U.S. trademarks engraved on the camera equipment. The good news is that you can import one example of each item into the U.S. under your personal exemption every month, even if it bears one of these restricted trademarks. So you can import one camera body, one back, one finder, one 80mm lens, one 120mm lens, one 200mm lens, and so on - but only one of each item on your return trip (per month, per person - so bring along spouses and friends). But trying to import more than one of the same item at the same time (or within 30 days) can raise difficulties, so read on.
The prime example is the U.S. trademarks owned by Mamiya America Corp. to the use of the Mamiya trademark in the U.S. market only. I believe this ownership arose out of historical relationships with Mamiya Japan as their U.S. importer/distributor. Mamiya America Corp. acquired these trademark rights in their local market, rather than the separate Mamiya Japan corporate entity.
The only other current example I have seen reported for the USA is Metz - the strobe makers (Bogen/Metz in USA). In the past, Nikon and Pentax among others once requested such enforcement, but no longer do so. See the tables below for the list of the no-restriction and restricted trademarks. However, my guess is that some of the other names on this restricted trademark list may have dropped their restrictions (e.g., Minolta, Bronica, Minox, Sakar), as I have not seen any posted descriptions of recent problems importing their trademarked items. In any case, it is safest to check with your district or national U.S. Customs Office for the latest details.
In the past, Mamiya America Corp. has protected their valuable trademarks and associated rights to control the importation and distribution of these Mamiya trademarked photo items (cameras such as Mamiya 7 RF, RZ-67, and Mamiya lenses). We are not talking about bogus badly made copies of Mamiya products. These items were actually made by the Mamiya Japan entity at its Japanese and other foreign factories to full specifications.
Bringing in a single one of each restricted trademarked item is permitted for personal use under U.S. laws. But bringing in multiples of the same item at the same time will fall outside of this personal exemption. In theory, U.S. Customs agents can remove the offending trademarks, possibly by even grinding them off. Ouch! But you shouldn't trigger this reaction if you aren't trying to import more than one of each item for personal use. But beware if you are bringing back more than one of the same item per trip by yourself!
Some importer and retailer postings and pages suggest that your photo equipment is subject to being confiscated or destroyed by U.S. Customs. I have yet to see a documented recent case of such confiscations of photo equipment being imported into the U.S. for individual use (e.g., under the trademark item exemptions since 1990). Similarly, the last case I have heard of trademarks being ground off photo gear being imported into the USA by an individual is more than 20 years ago.
Even in the case of one photographer who recently imported 3 sets of various trademarked goods, the U.S. Customs service only passed on his name to the local trademark holder. The U.S. Customs service didn't confiscate the goods, didn't grind off the trademarks, and didn't hold up the gear's entry into the USA. The trademark holder corporation sent him a nasty threatening letter. He could have avoided even this minor irritation simply by learning about the exemptions and importing just one of each item per month.
You can even bring in an article with a bogus or counterfeit trademark, like a Chinese made Rolex watch clone, under your personal exemption. But I doubt you would want to buy and import a bogus or counterfeit Hasselblad. But you could import one (and one only) if you wanted to.

Personal Exemptions - You can get in with one of everything...

Remember that you have a personal exemption that lets you get into the U.S. with one of anything, even if it is one of these protected trademark items. And you can have one of each lens, back, strobe power-pack, and anything else with their trademark on it too. So this restriction and warning is really aimed at folks importing multiple cameras, lenses, and backs of the same kind.

If you are bringing in multiples of the same item (multiple camera bodies, backs, or more than one of the exact same lenses), then you risk having your offending excess non-exempt items held up until the offending trademarks are removed. It is important to understand that the problem is related solely to the presence of the trademark on the item, and not the camera or lens itself. And it only applies if you bring in more than one of any item at a time (within a 30 day period). And you frankly probably have to really irritate your Customs Officer to get such treatment, even on a bad day.
In the past, some folks importing multiple camera bodies and lenses cleverly resolved this issue by simply removing the offending faceplates and lens fronts. All it takes is a lens wrench and a screwdriver. Oftentimes, the camera stores can do this for you if asked. These folks then mailed these parts separately back to themselves as parts, which are unlikely to trigger much customs inspection. Their cameras get through without any problems, as the offending trademarks aren't there. Once back in the U.S., they just replace the camera faceplates and lens rings.

Turning New into Used Tricks Used Overseas Tariffs

There is another version of the removable faceplate approach that some non-U.S. citizens use to ensure getting the lower tariff rates on used equipment imported into their countries. They buy a banged up and scratched camera faceplate or lens ring. With a lens wrench and screwdrivers, they replace the faceplates on their used trip cameras with the obviously used and abused faceplates. As a result, they have fewer hassles about paying the lower used import duties when they return to their countries. They can mail the parts across the border, or even bring them in as spare parts with their traveling tool kit.
The same trick also works to reduce the suspicion that you are importing new cameras into a country with very high camera tariffs (e.g., up to 100% and often 200% and up in some Asian and African countries). A heavily beat-up frontplate may reduce suspicions and the need to place equipment bonds to ensure you leave the country with the same amount of camera gear you entered with, and didn't sell or leave any gear behind without paying tariffs or duties. You are also likely to get hit up for more "baksheesh" if you have brand new shiny fancy P&S; cameras than a more brassy old nikon F3 or 500 c/m.
Personally, I think it is a pretty good idea to cover up or swap out your camera's faceplate if you have a very expensive 35mm or medium format camera where the "NIKON" or "CANON" or "HASSELBLAD" nameplates shout "Steal Me" to local thieves. You also get some funny looks when other photographers see that "Miranda" faceplate and trademark on your Nikon F3 body ;-)

In the extremely unlikely event U.S. Customs opens and grinds the trademarks off of your mailed parts package, you can usually order a replacement part through a cooperative repair-person. If you mail the parts in separate packages, so only one of each type of part is in the package, I think you would avoid even this unlikely glitch too.
Thanks to personal exemptions, you shouldn't have to use this trick, unless you are bringing in multiple cameras, multiple backs, or numbers of the same lenses and items. If not traveling alone, a companion might bring one each of these trademarked items in under his or her exemption too.
If you are not bringing in multiple items of the same type (e.g., three bodies, three of the same lenses, multiple camera backs for 6x6 etc) then this restricted trademark issue shouldn't ever be a problem. Again, this issue is limited to U.S. Customs, and these exemptions don't apply in other countries. However, other countries don't have our liberal exemption or tariff duties either, so some of these ideas and tricks may really help some non-U.S. users.

Your Local Post Office and U.S. Customs Offices as Mail Order Entry Point

In the unlikely event that U.S. Customs opens your mailed package, the agent may decide to charge you a munificent 0.6% to 3.7% tariff on the contents.
If you do mail order stuff from Seoul or Singapore, and you are the one in a ten who gets asked to pay the tariffs, you don't have to travel to California to pay the tariff duties. The U.S. Post Office will bill you for the tariffs and duties owed when you pick up the package. Your local air freight company will do the same if you use FEDEX or DHL or ...
Usually, the U.S. Customs service figures out your tariff duties due, and adds a form to your mailed package which is sent on to your regular local U.S. mail post office. The U.S. post office will drop a note in your mail box to come to the service window and pay the customs duties and fees due. The U.S. post office gets an additional $5 US for collecting this fee. Naturally, you can only use this U.S. post office service if they are handling your package delivery (surface or postal air freight from overseas etc.).
If you are using another air freight service such as Fedex or DHL, they will have to clear your package through U.S. Customs on your behalf. Some of the better air freight services will do this paperwork for you for a very nominal fee (from no additional charge to circa $5 paperwork fee). Other air freight companies will charge you up to $50 US or more to clear any package through U.S. or Canadian customs using their services.
The posters tips below will highlight some of the air freight services to avoid which charge these hefty and often well hidden surcharges. It pays to check current shipping costs carefully to ensure that prices haven't changed recently. Many overseas sellers will be able to recommend which air freight carrier they use locally, and why. Be sure to check into insurance and customs issues before mailing.
In theory, you could also arrange to pickup and clear the parcel into the USA at the U.S. Customs office nearest your home (in most major cities) or at any international point of entry into the USA with a U.S. Customs office. In practice, the only time you might go to such local U.S. Customs offices is to document being overcharged on tariffs or duties owed and fill out the paperwork needed to get such an overcharge refunded. Chances are very good that you could avoid even this effort by a few phone calls and mailing in your documentation and overcharge claim to the appropriate office.
My basic message here is Pay the Eagle whatever small tariffs or customs duties may apply. The U.S. Customs service makes it so easy for you to save 20-40% and even 60% by importing directly from overseas that it is hard to argue about paying 0.6% or even 3.7% tariffs on the hugely discounted grey market prices. In many cases, your package will clear U.S. Customs without being assessed any duties (some frequent importing photographers claim up to 90% of their packages clear without such fees).

Fortunately, our liberal U.S. customs exemptions and world's lowest tariff barriers makes this approach unnecessary. We do have an odd view that a camera is new if bought on your trip, even if your trip lasts a year and your camera looks like death warmed over when you return home. But with duties of 0.6% on a 35mm camera, it hardly pays to argue - or to collect the tariff!
It is also worth commenting that the U.S. Customs Service does a great job concentrating on what's important to the protection of our country. We're talking fighting the drug traffikers, terrorists, and large scale criminal importation of counterfeit or restricted goods. They also know that hassling travelers about tariff duties and trademarks isn't the way to maximize revenue per manhour. They couldn't return $20 to the U.S. Treasury for every dollar spent if they wasted a lot of time collecting tariff duties of 0.6% to 3.6% either. Since most of these duties are a lot less than sales taxes, and on a much smaller wholesale item cost, you shouldn't go to any illegal extremes to avoid paying a measly $12 in duties on a $2,000 camera! Simply Pay the Duties, in the unlikely event that you are asked or bothered to pay up, okay?
Is it worth taking the tiny chance of warranty problems by buying Mamiya or Metz trademarked equipment overseas and importing directly into the USA? You may not be surprised to learn that the markups for Mamiya equipment in the USA are among the highest discussed in our postings below. You can often save from 50% to 60% on new Mamiya items by buying overseas (to even 65% on Metz). Wow! That's another 20% or more off their USA prices than you can save on USA prices of Hasselblad or Nikon gear, for example. So yes, the savings are huge and the risks are minimal.
Moreover, you still have the usual manufacturer's factory warranties, even if you have to pay a little more to mail the item back to the manufacturer or overseas seller to get such service. You also have the ability to get out of warranty repairs at the often lower cost independent repair facilities in the USA, which legally have the same access to the same parts and repair manuals as the U.S. importers and official distributors. In short, the rewards of grey market buying can be very substantial, and the risks can seem rather minor in comparison.
Some photographers suggest that if you insist on getting the latest and newest model of complex electronic camera gear (e.g., Nikon F5), that you should consider paying more to get such an item through a U.S. official importer channel. Their philosophy is that being so new, only the official dealer will have the parts and experience to service the many frequently encountered problems with new cameras. Conversely, lenses usually have much fewer problems than complex electro-mechanical camera bodies, so you can save by buying them via grey market sources.
A few posters counter that the new extended warranties by some official importers, such as Nikon USA's 5 year warranty on new offically imported US lens sales, helps offset some of the savings from grey market sources. On the other hand, you can price out the cost of separate 5 or 7 year lens warranties (e.g., from B&H; Video) with grey market lenses, and still save many hundreds of dollars while buying grey market lenses.
My own view is that most lens either break shortly after arrival, during the warranty period, or break after much use and abuse. Such extended warranty monies are better spent on better and broader coverage from insurance policies than limited coverage lens defect extended warranties. As noted, such limited product defect warranty policies usually do not cover many problems not caused by a direct factory defect such as a defective part (e.g., abuse of the lens by dropping, or dust getting into the lens). For most such cases, what you really need is insurance!

Recovering Taxes such as VAT
A few other elements to consider is that many countries have a VAT -value added tax or similar surcharge often in the 10% range on local item sales. If you are exporting the camera and a non-citizen, you should probably not be required to pay these taxes. Usually, the selling store will be happy to provide the paperwork to get this tax either waived or refunded. Be sure to inquire about such options, especially if you are buying in the store, but also from overseas using local published prices. These local published prices (e.g., on the WWW) might be required to include such VAT charges, and so additional savings may be possible. Otherwise, some stores may be tempted to file for and keep these rebated taxes on their exported items, without passing the savings on to you.

Sales and Use Taxes Issues for U.S. Buyers
Many places have local sales taxes. In Texas, we have a state sales tax, a city sales tax, a water district sales tax, a local transit system sales tax, and others that I can't remember. There is a cap on local sales taxes at 8% by current state law, but subject to revision. Other states have no sales or use taxes, relying on an income tax instead.
One of the incentives for mail order purchasing is that mail order sales to an out-of-state non-resident buyer are often not subject to that state's sales or use taxes. Unless that mail order firm does business in your state, e.g., from an office in your state, your state can't force them to collect sales taxes. So you often can avoid sales taxes on out-of-state mail-order purchases. Obviously, your local state tax authorities are not happy about what they see as lost sales and use tax revenue through this loophole.
Their solution in the U.S. has been to form a cooperative venture amongst the 37 states that have sales or use taxes to share information about mail-order sales. Local sellers can be required to report out-of-state sales to the local State tax authorities. That State shares these sales information with the buyer's State. The buyer's State sends the mail-order buyer a tax bill for local use taxes. Use taxes are a tax on items owned and used within the State. They are similar in effect on your pocketbook as if you had bought the item in-state and paid state sales taxes on your purchases.
Currently, this information sharing procedure is full of holes and legal challenges. The thirteen states plus territories not involved are likely to have a huge incentive not to cooperate or collect and share such information in order to stimulate local mail-order businesses. These taxes are also a huge burden on inter-state business and trade, and could require mail order sellers to collect taxes for literally hundreds of local city, county, and state entities (without payment for the paperwork costs either). Similar issues are being faced with online sales and trading, for the same reasons.
U.S. Customs may also be involved in sharing information on major purchases and imports. Your state could use such records to send you a use tax bill in many jurisdictions. So if you are importing a lot of photogear, you may find your state's sales and use tax bills are much higher than any tariffs or duties (e.g., 8% sales or use tax versus 0.6-3.6% duties).
We have reports of mail-order using photographers getting state use tax bills for thousands of dollars. In response, some photographers have suggested they intend to simply open a mail forwarding post office box in one of the 13 non-reporting states and territories. Other photographers have challenged such tax bills, and never heard from their taxing authority again.
A rather clever suggestion has been to declare that photography purchases such as cameras and lenses are used to produce or manufacture a final result - the film or print - on which the consumer pays sales taxes. In most tax jurisdictions, such items are not subject to sales tax or use tax unless they are the final item sold to consumers. This is unlike VAT or value added taxes, which can be assessed throughout the supply chain, but which are rare in the U.S. fortunately - so far!.
Under this manufacturing exemption, as it is often called, you can avoid paying state sales or use taxes on items bought in-state as well as through out-of-state mailorder! But you have to be setup as a small business and collect and pay sales tax on your sales to consumers (see below).
My personal prescription is to simply ''pay the Eagle''. Pay these taxes in the unlikely event you get hit with such import duties, sales taxes, or use taxes. Paying even 8% tax on 60% of local costs beats paying 8% on 100% of local costs, right? But if a little research and effort may make you eligible for exemption from your state's use and sales taxes on your photo equipment, isn't it worth reading on?

Turning Semi-Professional - Tax Benefits
If you aren't already a semi-professional or professional photographer, you probably should consider the benefits of becoming one. See Semi-Professional Photographer page for some of the many tax and retirement incentives for turning your hobby into a side-line business.
One benefit is the ability to deduct photography business related expenses. Depending on your tax bracket and situation, you should be able to save from 15% to 28% and even more in taxes (e.g., FICA self-employment at 15%+). In other words, being able to deduct these photo purchases amounts to an additional 30% to 43% tax saving on top of the 40-60% savings by using mail-order and grey market importing.
Assume you can avoid state sales and use taxes on the majority of your equipment under the various exemptions. That's another 5% to 8% state tax savings, or similar savings on your state income tax due to lowered taxable income.
The photo hobbyist has to earn another 40%+ just to have the same after tax dollars to spend (in 28% federal tax bracket plus 7.65% FICA with state tax of 5% up). So the semi-pro photographer starts out saving 40% over the photo hobbyist just from tax benefits! In other words, you might have to earn $1,667+ before tax dollars to produce $1,000 in after tax dollars to buy a lens in the 40% tax bracket (as $1,667 * 40% = $667 in taxes, leaving $1,000 after taxes). The semipro photographer just needs to come up with the $1,000, thanks to his tax exemptions and exclusions. If I have to earn 40% less to buy a lens than you do, isn't that a huge saving? Isn't it worth looking into turning semipro?.
Another benefit of turning semi-pro or professional in the photography business is the reduction in state sales and use taxes. This approach will not only cut your state sales and use taxes on items you import from other states or from abroad. More importantly, you can use your sales tax number for exemption from many sales and use taxes in-state!
This happy result would also apply not just to equipment, but to other goods and services where you are not the final consumer. For example, you are probably an intermediary between your professional photo-finishers and film developers and your clients. Are you paying state sales taxes on those goods and services? Are you collecting sales taxes on the sale of those enlargements and prints to your customers? Then you probably shouldn't be paying sales or use taxes on these same goods and services, but using your state sales tax exemption.

Secrets of How to Use Top $$ Photogear for Free...
Some semi-professional and professional photographers combine these tax advantages and the extra 20-30% discounts from importing grey market items directly in an interesting way. Thanks to their 40-60% grey market discount, plus 40%+ tax savings discount, their effective costs are much lower than an amateur photographer buyer.
To buy a lens that costs $1,000 US, you might have to earn $1,667 pre-tax dollars (see above example). After paying $667 or more in federal and local/state taxes (in 28% bracket plus FICA and local sales tax), you have $1,000 after tax dollars to buy the lens. But the same lens as a tax deductible item costs the pro photographer just the $1,000 US.
Now what if they import that lens from Grand Cayman Island or Hong Kong, paying only $600 US plus $30 air freight and insurance and circa $20 duty (at 3.6% rate if collected at all)? Now they have the same lens you got at a street price of $1,000 (and starting with $1,667 US before taxes), but they have only paid $650 US for it. They have to earn $1,000 less than you do to buy the same lens (with a street price of $1,000). Wow!
That's why the professional photographers can afford to buy the best quality equipment, insure it professionally, and then resell it as used gear to eager amateur photographers. During their depreciation period (e.g., 5 years), they have enjoyed the best quality equipment.
After five years or so, they sell their pro lenses for roughly their grey market purchase costs (e.g., $650 used for a lens that cost $1,000 street price). This used cost still amounts to a substantial one third to one half off the usual new local retailer price (e.g., 85-90% of MSRP) and even most mail order discounters (e.g., 65% of MSRP - mfger suggested retail prices). That's simply the benefit of that extra 20-50% saving from buying grey market directly from overseas rather than from USA mail-order houses.
This situation is win-win for the pro and semipro photographer. The hard part is the initial investment; after that, they simply recycle the same dollars into new pro gear. If their gear is stolen, their professional insurance covers it. When they are ready to sell their old lenses and photo gear, they make enough money off the used gear to buy newer gear overseas for little or no additional investment. You and I as amateurs are glad to buy a pro quality $2,000 MSRP lens that had a street price of $1,000 US for $600 on the used market some years later. But the pro or semipro photographer is even happier. He or she can use their returned investment to buy the latest model of camera or lens with little or no loss. At worst, the new model will cost a bit more due to 3%-5% inflation over the last few years (but salaries will also be higher too - we hope!).
Contrast that situation with the typical amateur photographer. You and I have to earn $1,667 or more pretax dollars to generate $1,000 after-tax to buy that lens. The pro and semipro photographer only needed $600-$650 US of pre-tax dollars thanks to buying overseas discounts. So the same lens requires circa 2.5 times as many dollars earned ($1,667 US versus $600-650) for the amateur photographer to buy it compared to his semipro photographer friends. Make sense? Now you should understand why the combination of semipro tax deductions and buying overseas makes a HUGE difference in the cost of camera gear for pro and semipro users. They are often-times able to buy the same pro-gear for 40% of the dollars that you or I need to earn to buy the same lens (and pay our 28% tax bracket federal taxes etc.).
After 3 to 5 years of modest amateur use, we amateur photographers then sell the lens for $600, generating a further $400 loss. If we buy a new $1,000 street price lens (MSRP of $2,000 US), we will have to not only use the $600 from selling our used lens, but an additional $400 in after tax dollars, requiring circa $700 in pre-tax earnings. Compared to the pro and semipro photographer who only needs to pony up $600-650 US again, we have to earn circa $700 US added to the used lens monies ($600) to buy the same lens.
With luck, the falling prices of lenses and electronic photogear will offset the slight 3% to 5% rate of inflation. If so, the pro and semipro photographer may be able to simply recycle that $600 from selling the old lens into buying the new one.
In other words, we have an Arabian Nights new pots for old pots situation, only it is new lenses and cameras for old ones. The extra 20%, 30%, 40% and even 50% in savings from buying overseas covers the depreciation of the typical 3 to 5 years of pro usage.
Now you know another secret of reducing your equipment costs too. The first step is to minimize your actual outlays by buying grey market goods overseas at discounts of 20%, 30%, 40$, 50% and even more on some brands. If you can use this photogear in a business related income generating endeavor, you may be eligible to deduct such outlays as a semipro photographer.
Now you can afford to buy the best gear too, since it may cost as little as 40% of the dollars you used to have to earn to buy the same gear as an amateur photographer. Finally, you can sell off your gear to happy amateur photographers, unaware of these overseas savings and glad to buy your used gear at prices that will pay for new ones. But to do so you have to know the secrets of buying grey market goods overseas and directly importing it. That's what this article has revealed, so enjoy the savings!

Conclusion
The links at the top of this article will provide a great starting place to locating sources for buying camera gear overseas. The postings below will show you that many photographers are importing camera gear directly, often at huge savings of up to 60% or more.
Many of the FUD Factors (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) can be handled with a minimum of problems. Out-of-warranty repairs are available, despite the efforts of some importers to suggest otherwise. Taxes and import duties are quite low, and you have to pay these anyway on imported cameras bought from camera stores too.
You can even let a local camera store such as B&H; do the grey market importing for you, and still enjoy substantial savings over non-grey market prices of up to 20-30% or more.
Some camera stores keep their prices lower and profits higher by importing grey market cameras, sometimes without telling their customers. Others are now putting USA vs. import pricing in their ads, to offer you extra savings. Now you know why, and how they can do this, thanks to grey market importing.
In many posts below, you can see and compare some of the prices, and see the huge savings for yourself. Even after paying shipping costs and the low duty rates charged, you will still save from 40% to 60% or more over retail on many items. Your prices will generally be 20% or more below the price of identical new items from even the top camera discount stores.
While I have focused on highlighting the potential problems and got-chas, the reality is that millions of dollars of grey market photogear is imported into the USA each year by both camera stores and individuals. The vast majority of folks will never be hassled by U.S. Customs or get a bill for use taxes on their cameras.
One of the posters below reports no duties or taxes at all on the mail order purchase of their Hasselblad 903SWC. Another purchaser paid only $220 for duties and $120 for air freight shipping, insurance, and fees on a $7,800 US purchase. Isn't it worth paying $340 to save $4,000 to $5000+?
The key issue is to buy from a reputable foreign dealer, and use such protection (e.g., credit cards) as you can while buying. The same cautions apply whether you buy in-person on a trip or via mailorder. Here is where the Internet can help you by highlighting the places you can trust, and those you can't. The links at the top of this page are a great starting point - especially to online sites reviewing camera dealers (as are the posts online and archived below). And if there is a change in ownership or policies, you will learn about it fastest via the Internet too!
In summary, you can buy new photogear overseas too. The cost savings are enormous, often 40% to even 60% on brand new in-warranty equipment. In my view, this is one areas in which user-to-user postings like these can provide real financial benefits to us as consumers.
Information is power, and you now have the power to save a lot of money by using the information in this article and on related linked pages. Good luck!
P.S. - Although much of this article assumes the buyer is from the USA, these same principles also work even larger savings in many other highly taxed countries. The postings below also discuss issues and savings in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, India, and Canada. And if you have some local great buys, feel free to Email me with the details for posting!

Procedures for Shipping Goods to U.S.A. (from Know before You Go U.S. Customs Pub.)

Merchandise acquired abroad may be sent home by you or by the store where purchased. As these items do not accompany you on your return, they cannot be included in your Customs exemption and are subject to duty when received in the United States. Duty cannot be prepaid. There are, however, special procedures to follow for merchandise acquired in and sent from the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam or Caribbean Basin countries.
All incoming shipments must be cleared through U.S. Customs. Customs employees cannot, by law, perform entry tasks for the importing public, but they will advise and give information to importers about Customs requirements.
Customs collects duty (if any) as provided for in the tariff schedule, certain Internal Revenue taxes and sometimes, a user fee. Any other charges paid on import shipments are for handling by freight forwarders, commercial brokers, or for other delivery services. Some carriers may add other clearance charges that have nothing to do with Customs duties.
Note: Customs brokers are not U.S. Customs employees. Brokers' fees are based on the amount of work done, not on the value of the personal effects or tourist purchases you shipped. The fee may seem excessive to you in relation to the value of the shipment. The most cost-effective thing to do is to take your purchases with you if at all possible.
Mail Shipments (including parcel post) are generally cost-efficient. Parcels must meet the mail requirements of the exporting country as to weight, size, or measurement.
The U.S. Postal Service sends all incoming foreign mail shipments to Customs for examination. Packages free of Customs duty are returned to the Postal Service for delivery to you by your home post office without additional postage, handling costs, or other fees.
For packages containing dutiable articles, the Customs officer will attach a mail entry showing the amount of duty to be paid and return the parcel to the Postal Service. The duty and a $5 processing fee on dutiable packages will be assessed. In addition, the U.S. Postal Service changes a handling fee on the package when delivered.
Formal entry may be required for some shipments (certain textiles, wearing apparel, and small leather goods) regardless of value. Customs employees cannot prepare this type of entry for you. Only you or a licensed Customs broker may prepare a formal entry.

n.b. Overseas air and surface freight services will also arrange to clear items through US Customs for you, usually for a modest fee ($5..), as well as pay any duties and then charge you for these monies (if assessed) on delivery.
However, a few overseas air freight shippers may charge high fees or use bonded US Customs brokers, adding $50 or more to your costs. So check beforehand (hint: read posts below to see UPS vs FEDEX vs DHL..)!

Trademark Information for Travelers - U.S. Customs Pub. #508 (5/90)

Warning: Trademark names highlighted in black may only be imported under Customs trademark Exemptions - See paragraphs 3 and 4 from booklet text below (See Caution)
nr = no restriction on importation for personal use - (See Caution)

Binolux
Bogen
Bronica
Mamiya
Mamiya C
Mamiya RB-67
Mamiya Sekor
Metz
Metz in Design
Minolta
Minox
Mitakon
Monolux
Sakar
Underground Camera Inc
Arca-Swiss (nr)
AO (nr)
Arri (nr)
Arriflex (nr)
B & L (nr)
FL-B (up to 12 filters)
FL-D (up to 12 filters)
Fotocoat (nr)
Fuji (nr)
Fujibromide (nr)
Fujica (nr)
Fujichrome (nr)
Fujicolor (nr)
Fuji Film (nr)
Fujilith (nr)
Fujinon (nr)
Fuji Single 8 (nr)
Hasselblad (nr)
Kiron (nr)
Konica (nr)
Leica (nr)
Leitz (nr)
Luxottica (nr)
Maxxum (nr)
Minicam (nr)
Nikkor (nr)
Nikon (nr)
Olympus (nr)
Olympus Quickmatic (nr)
Osawa & Logo (nr)
Pentax (nr)
Schneider-Kreuznach (nr)
Seiko (nr)
Series (nr)
Steroflex (nr)
Sunpack (nr)
Takumar (nr)
Tasco (nr)
UFO (nr)
Unitron (nr)
Vivitar (nr)
Vivitar Series (nr)
Vuarnet (nr)

Important Trademark Information
What follows is the main text from the Trademark Information for Travelers U.S. Customs Pub. #508 (May 1990) received per my inquiry:
1) Under the trademark laws, the American owner of a registered trademark or trade name may record that mark or name with the U.S. Customs Service. This gives the owner protection against the unauthorized importation by others of foreign-made merchandise bearing that trademark or trade name. Trademark restrictions do not apply to goods of U.S. manufacture.
2) Many trademark owners place no restriction on any importation of their trademarked merchandise. Unlimited quanties of such articles may be mailed, shipped, or brought into the U.S. Some trademark owners have consented to importation of limited quantities of articles acquired abroad if in the travelers possession, and for person use, not for sale. Other trademark owners have not given consent for the importation of their trademarked articles unless written specific consent is obtained from the trademark owner.
3) Under Public Law 95-410, effective October 3, 1978, a traveler arriving in the United States with a protected trademark article may be granted an exemption to the import restrictions. Under this exemption, a traveler may import one article of a type bearing a protected trademark. This exemption would apply to an article bearing a counterfeit or confusingly similar trademark as well as an article bearing a genuine trademark (19 U.S.C. 1526 (d), 19 CFR 148.55). However, if the holder of a protected trademark allows importation of a quantity in excess of one of its particular trademarked articles, the total of those trademarked articles authorized by the trademark holder may be entered. Examples of a type of article would be one still camera, one motion picture camera, any number of interchangeable camera lenses if each is of a different focal length, two audio speakers, any number of bars of soap in a package for personal use.
4) The article must be in your possession upon entering the U.S. and for personal use, not for resale. This exemption of the same type of merchandise may be used once each 30 days. If an exempt item is sold within one year following importation, the article or its value will be subject to forfeiture.
5) Should you bring in any articles bearing protected trademarks in excess of 1) the above-mentioned exemption, 2) the amount covered by the consent granted by the trademark owner, or 3) have them mailed to you from abroad, U.S. Customs must require that you physically remove the protected marks or names from the article before importation unless written consent is obtained from the American trademark owner. This exemption is not available to counterfeits.
6) All trademarked merchandise is subject to applicable duty and tax.
7) We hope this information will help you understand and follow requirements so that your purchases may be passed through Customs without delay. If you have any questions about a specific trademark not mentioned herein, you may write to any District Director of Customs or the U.S. Customs Service, Washington, D.C. 20229.

Caution: This list of trademarked items is complete as of date of publication, but new trademarks or changes are recorded constantly. The pamphlet also applies only to articles most frequently purchased abroad by tourists or entered by nonresidents - many trademarks for other kinds of merchandise are also recorded for import protection.

Hint: Use the key word search features of your browser (control-Find in Windows and UNIX, command-Find on Macs) to locate country specific (Canada, Australia) postings and sources (Grand Cayman, Seoul..) or brands (Hasselblad, Mamiya) postings. By reading through these related postings, you will quickly see that many, many buyers are saving major $$$ using the techniques described in this article.

Related Postings

Special Thanks to David Freedman for sharing this valuable info:

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 From: David Freedman dpfreedman@worldnet.att.net To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: Prices of lens in Hong Kong Bruce; Depending upon the item, by a huge amount. I spoke with Mr. Chin approximately 3 weeks ago. At that time, the prices he quoted were as follows: Hasselblad 903SWC HK$28000 (approx. US$3612). B+H price is $4986. Leica 19mm/2.8 Elmarit HK$15,600 (approx. US$2012). B+ H: $3096 Leica 80mm/1.4 Summilux HK$15000 (approx US$1935). B+H: $2996 Nikon 300mm/2.8 AF-S HK$33000 (approx US$4258) Nikon 500mm/4 AF-S HK$47500 (approx US$6129) These were the items I asked about recently. However, referring back to my Cameron file, I see a fax I received back on 28 March '97. At that time, a Hasselblad 503CW body was quoted at approx. US$1388 and a 503CW+80/2.8+A12 set at approx. US$2828. The two Leica R items I purchased in August '97 were the 70-180/2.8 APO ($4280 vs B+H $5999) and the 280/4 APO ($3359 vs B+H $4995). The above price comparisons are based on new equipment with valid warranty. Shopping for "gray" market equipment in the US can narrow the price gap considerably. I've never had much luck finding "gray" Hasselblad equipment; Leica is much easier. And good luck trying to find a 500/4 AF-S Nikkor at any price in the US let alone heavily discounted. Just as an aside, I've found the biggest photo bargains in HKG to be Mamiya cameras and lenses. Almost everything seemed to be at least 40% less than NY prices (for example, I bought a 50mm and a 250mm lens for my RZ system. The two lenses were approximately $1000 each as opposed to here in NY where they're $1639 and $1939 respectively!). I should throw in a disclaimer that this information is now a few years old so who knows what current Mamiya pricing might be. Hope this helps, Dave F. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Wilson To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 12:49 PM Subject: RE: Prices of lens in Hong Kong > >David, > >Does your purchase from Hong Kong imply that Cameron Photo beats New York >prices? > >Bruce >

Japan Price Info:

From: gordie Subject: Re: Tokyo Price Information > Would anyone on the list be able to report the current street price in > Tokyo for the new model 80-200 2.8? Also, does Yodobashi provide any e > mail contact for quotes and information for those planning a visit to > their store while in Tokyo? > Thanks. > Gerard Gerard, The lowest price in Japan for 80-200mm (N) is 103,000 Yen from Sanpoh Camera in Meguro District of Tokyo. They don't have export license so you would pay 5% tax. Sakuraya Camera in Shinjuku went down to 105,000 Yen without tax at end of January in combination with other lens purchases. Yodobashi Camera is currently implementing website(not operational yet). Best regards, Gordie ------------------------ From: Vivi Ramesh Subject: Re:Tokyo Price Information Gerard, I bought the new 80-200 2.8D lens last July in Tokyo. After a bit of haggling, I got it for 99000 yen from Sakuraya. This price was approximately 8% cheaper than Yodobashi. Prices in Tokyo are cheaper than the mail order prices in NY, in my experience. Happy Shopping.... Cheers, V.Ramesh

From: ray tai Subject: Response to Trip to Japan Monday ~ Are MF gear prices much less than in USA? Date: 1998-03-16 I live in Hong Kong and prices generally correlates with Japan. At the moment, a 503CW kit costs about US$2700 here, US$1500 less than B&H.; The 501CM kit cost about US$2000, but with the CB lens. Your wife may want to look into whether this is the price in Japan also. At US$2500, in my opinion is a terrific deal for the 503CW.

Hong Kong Savings to 50%
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: ahogg@waikato.ac.nz (Alan Hogg)
[1] Re: Medium Format in Hong-Kong
Date: Sun May 24 1998
(Christian Decurnex) wrote:
> Hi, > Does anyone know a good place to buy medium format equipment in Hong-Kong? > (mail order place or else) > Www-adress, email or snail-mail address would be fine. > Thanks > Christian Decurnex

Hello Christian,
I buy all my MF gear (Mamiya 7) mail order from PhotoScientific Appliances at prices that are considerably cheaper than NY mail order (B and H).
Although I haven't visited the shop personally, it is apparently quite small and dosn't hold much stock (no problem of course if you are buying by mail order). If you are planning to actually visit the store, it might pay to know exactly what you want before you go there, and order it in advance. The manager is Poon Ka Kui and I have found him very helpful and keen to please. I send an international money order over and he posts the goods back. You should check your countries (Denmark?) regulations about import duty etc before mail ordering from OS. In NZ there is fortunately no import duty on cameras.
I have not had any gear failure yet and therefore do not know what problems might arise with repair under warranty. But I am saving ca 50% on New Zealand by buying from HK, so I am willing to take the risk.
Good luck - the details are below:
The Manager's name is Mr Poon ka kui.
Photo Scientific Appliances Ltd,
6, Stanley St,
Ground Floor,
Central,
Hong Kong.

Fax : +852 2810 6917
Good luck,
Alan Hogg
p.s. the usual disclaimer - no financial connection, only a satisfied customer!

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: FS@FS.COM (FS)
[1] Re: Medium Format in Hong-Kong
Date: Thu May 28 1998
> ahogg@waikato.ac.nz (Alan Hogg) writes: > (Christian Decurnex) wrote: > > > Hi, > > Does anyone know a good place to buy medium format equipment in Hong-Kong? > > (mail order place or else) > > Www-adress, email or snail-mail address would be fine. > > Thanks > > Christian Decurnex >

Regarding Photo Scientific, i have to say they are more expensive than ''Man Shing'' where in Mongkok. Man Shing is one of the most well-known store in Hong Kong. I bought my whole Bronica system, Nikon gears, Ricoh GR1, etc. there. Their prices are among the cheapest. Well, I believed that the people in Photo Scientific seem to have better oral English ability though(that is what I observe).
My suggestion is you compare their prices yourself and you will understand what I mean.
Man Shing (ask for Hong, he is a very nice and helpful guy)
106 Tung Choi Street
Kowloon
Hong Kong
Tel: 23962996, 23956684
Fax: 23952127
(They closed on Sunday.)
FS
Please use the following address if you want to Email me: ayu@hk.super.net

Savings in Seoul Korea
From: Brian R Jones lasttime@pacbell.net
Subject: Response to Fuji GA645
Date: 1998-05-22
I just visited Seoul, Korea on a business trip and was so tempted by the GA645 that I bought one. Brand new, in a box, Eurpoean Manual from a reputable dealer - for $750US. Then I started to check that I hadn't been ripped off and found your email thread:-). Looks like even in the US, this camera would cost at least $1200+. If $750 is too much, then there a few used Camera shops and I was offered a used GA645 for around $500, but you can bargain......

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998
From: James Chow jchow@atom.isl.melco.co.jp
Subject: [Rollei] Re: Rollei USA Service Center & New USA Distributorship
>R. Bender wrote: >> I'd love to buy a new Rollei but I don't want to be at the mercy of >>one factory authorized repair facility if the camera breaks down. There >>are very few independent shops that will repair a medium format Rollei >>SLR and that has been my major reason against buying one.

I have a friend who's thinking about getting a Rollei (presently has a hasselblad w/ 1 lens) but is thinking the same thing, that one repair facility just doesn't hack it, especially when your occupation depends on getting the product repaired fast. And owning a backup body isn't exactly cheap, though maybe necessary. I'm told that Hasselblad USA has photography seminars where you can borrow any equipment, and also give one free repair, send monthly newletters on the latest news, etc. Not to mention the increased availability of rental equipment.
I live in Tokyo and just bought my second 6008i body, but I got a great promo on a kit w/ zeiss 80 PQ for $2800, only about $220 more than the new entry-level 6001 (this is all new, not gray market stuff, either, w/ the Japan warranty!). I had to have a couple of items serviced, and both times, the repair facility here was unable to perform them, so ended up shipping the goods to Braunschweig myself. The most recent was some shutter service on a 300/4 tele-xenar's shutter, which started giving an "error 2" message after shooting for a day in -15C at the Nagano Olympics (the repair facility here couldn't find anything wrong with it but the factory certainly did). Turnaround time is approximately 1 week to ship to Germany via air, FOUR weeks in German customs, 1 week to receive the estimate and to wire the payment over, 1 week to perform the repair, and 1 week for return shipping to my door. In other words, two months! Luckily, I was able to get by with my 180/2.8+ 1.4x tc. The quality of work at the factory is excellent, though.
--Jim

[Ed. note: a factor to consider re: repairs in some countries]
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Re: Rollei USA Service Center & New USA Distributorship
>I have a friend who's thinking about getting a Rollei (presently has a >hasselblad w/ 1 lens) >but is thinking the same thing, that one repair facility just doesn't hack >it, especially when >your occupation depends on getting the product repaired fast. And owning a >backup body isn't >exactly cheap, though maybe necessary. I'm told that Hasselblad USA has >photography seminars >where you can borrow any equipment, and also give one free repair, send >monthly newletters on >the latest news, etc. Not to mention the increased availability of rental >equipment. >

Give the new people some time. I suspect that you will see them offering all this and more in the future. They are smart people and in touch with the market, and unlike the previous people they do listen.
>I live in Tokyo and just bought my second 6008i body, but I got a great >promo on a kit w/ zeiss >80 PQ for $2800, only about $220 more than the new entry-level 6001 (this is >all new, not gray >market stuff, either, w/ the Japan warranty!). I had to have a couple of >items serviced, and both >times, the repair facility here was unable to perform them, so ended up >shipping the goods to >Braunschweig myself. The most recent was some shutter service on a 300/4 >tele-xenar's >shutter, which started giving an "error 2" message after shooting for a day >in -15C at the Nagano >Olympics (the repair facility here couldn't find anything wrong with it but >the factory certainly did). Turnaround time is approximately 1 week to ship >to Germany via air, FOUR weeks in German customs, 1 week to receive the >estimate and to wire the payment over, 1 week to perform the repair, and 1 >week for >return shipping to my door. In other words, two months! Luckily, I was able >to get by with my 180/2.8+ >1.4x tc. The quality of work at the factory is excellent, though. > >--Jim

I've sent things to Germany for service on a number of occasions. I always use Fedex for the shipping, and they get it through German customs in under 24 hours. Maybe it is different coming from Japan, but from the USA you declare it as "temporary export, for repair" and that prevents customs duty from being charged either way. I've usually gotten turn around in a week or so, with only four days involved in transit both ways. I have the return shipping billed to my Fedex account. Depending on the weight of the item, costs from $ 40 - 100 each way.
Bob

[Ed. note: Thanks also to Bob Shell for sharing this handy customs tip!!]

[Ed. note - see added info below from Bob Shell's quoted post on returns..]
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999
From: Evan J Dong evanjoe685@juno.com
Reply-To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei]OFF-TOPIC: Rollei lenses - Vat Tax (long)
Jim Chow wrote on June 25, 1999 @ 09:51:53:

> This calculation is not correct. > > The final consumer only pays 16 % of the final price. > > The distributor and the wholesaler have to pay the 16 % for every buy, but > they get the tax later back from the government. > > This means, that exactly 16 % are paid on the final product by the > consumer. So the governmane gets the 16 % only once! > > Dirk

It could be that I got zapped for the 16% VAT and had to somehow reclaim it myself (like when you buy stuff in London and have to fill out some form and get it stamped at Heathrow and then drop it in the mail). The gov't must figure that a large percentage of customers won't go through the bother of doing all of this. Otherwise, why not just deduct the VAT at the cash register upon showing one's passport and a photocopy?
--Jim

Jim,
I recently sent my Exakta 66 to Dresden, Germany for repairs. Beneath my reply you would find a copy of A EMAIL POSTING by Bob Shell. I used Bob Shell's method of shipping my camera into Germany fro repairs. I will briefly reveal my ongoing conversation with them.
Pentacon insisted that I must pay for the VAT and customs duty since it is being sent into Germany. I checked with 2 friends who are customs brokers and also with FedEx. They tolded me the same information that Bob Shell mentioned. I will not be held up in Germany Customs as FedEx do their own Custom Brokering. In addition, I should not have to pay the VAT nor Customs duty as it is my personal camera sent into Germany for repairs only, not for resale or entered in to commerce (pretty much the same thing.) To double check and have a fallback plan, I wrote repeatly to Pentacon by email and also cc. my email to my cousin who lives in Germany. I told Pentacon to sent the camera to my cousin after it is repair.
In the end, Pentacon acknowledge two things to me:
1. They were not allowed to ship to anyone in Germany due to strict import / export codes.
2. Since it was for repairs and the custom brokering was done by FedEx, the camera had to go back to me. No VAT was collected.
I also reminded Pentacon that since I was shipping it in for repairs only, I shouldn't have to paid the VAT.
Below Bob Shell's reply, I will copy Pentacon's reply for your viewing. Dirk was correct in stating that you shouldn't have to pay the VATsince you are senting it in for repairs.
Evan Dong
=============
BOB SHELL'S Email Posting:
I frequently have to send things to and from Germany in a hurry. I have found that the very best way is to use Federal Express since they do the customs brokering themselves, and can get it through in a day, two days at worst.
Also, it is VERY important to fill out the customs declaration properly, and mark the goods "TEMPORARY EXPORT -- FOR REPAIR ONLY. WILL NOT BE ENTERED INTO COMMERCE IN GERMANY." A customs broker I used to use when I was in the import business told me about this. It saves a lot of headaches.
As far as I am concerned Federal Express is the way to go. DHL comes in as a close second.
Bob

PENTACON 'S REPLY TO MY COUSIN:
Translated from German:
it is not possible to send the camera to you due to the strict customs regulations, import and export registration. The invoice amount is without value added tax.
After receipt of the payment the camera will be in new jersey in 5 days.
Invoice amount is without value added tax.
Please inform evan dong of your payment and handling.

PENTACON'S REPLY TO ME DIRECTLY:
This came before I shipped my camera to them. In the end, I only paid the repair bill PLUS the shipping fee. No Customs duty so far. When I receive the camera in my hand, I will let you if I have to pay the customs duty.
Evan
++++++++
Mr. Dong,
I wrote to them already repeatedly.
Our service makes the complete modification of model 1 into model 3.
The costs are as informed already:
1. for modification 165 US dolar
2. ascertaineable cable releaser 5 US dollar
3. no duties for import and export
4. only charges on processing with the custom 85 US dollar (administrative fee)
5. for cosigment (postage) by airmail 35 US dollar
You get the operation instructions in English of us. At the packet shipment they don`t pay and value added tax.
The courier shold be to DHL, but it is identical.
After completion of the modification of model 1 into model 3, they receive a proforma invoice from us, you transfer the money of your bank to the mentioned account and you get her camera.
After the many e-mails, I ask you to send the camera to us to the modification.
I am on business trip to June 20th.
U. Wehmann

Saving 50% on Mamiya in Singapore
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Kwan Soo" kksoo@mcw.edu
[1] Re: Found great prices on Mamiya 7 from Singapore
Date: Fri Jun 26 1998
I was in Singapore and Bali in March this year. I came across the Mamiya 7 promotion which I think ended beginning of this month. I was able to get the camera and complete lenses plus a few accessories for a friend. They included an excellent camera bag (a well known American brand - All Weather). The price was as you reported. Our local US customs office helped us with the labeling to avoid undue delay. We identified all items shipped. The goods arrived on time and in excellent condition by DLH. You do get an international warranty which the local shop may not want to recognize. Reminds me of the "Grey Market" goods of old.
Had difficulty finding a filter all over Bali. All the photo shops offered me filtered cigarettes when I asked.
Kwan
Charles Nguyen wrote

>I recently found great prices on Mamiya 7 and lenses from Singapore (almost >half what it costs to buy here - US) Does anybody know if there's a real >hassle buying from overseas - shipping, duty, etc.. >let me know if you experienced similar situation. >Thanks, > >

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Manosh manoshn@sover.net
Re: Found great prices on Mamiya 7 from Singapore
Date: Sun Jun 28 1998
Charles
Mamiya usa has an exclusive to the name in the USA a couple years ago I tried to import several rb67s customs literaly took a grinder to every portion that said Mamiya to remove the name and about a week later I got a phone call from the head of Mamiya USA himelf with threats of legal actions(all this for 3 RBS?) these guys are jerks
Mike
Charles Nguyen wrote:
> I recently found great prices on Mamiya 7 and lenses from Singapore (almost > half what it costs to buy here - US) Does anybody know if there's a real > hassle buying from overseas - shipping, duty, etc.. > let me know if you experienced similar situation. > Thanks,

Savings to 75% in Singapore vs. UK
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: rgivens@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Robert Givens")
Subject: Re: Found great prices on Mamiya 7 from Singapore
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998

> "Charles Nguyen" > wrote: > > >I recently found great prices on Mamiya 7 and lenses from Singapore (al > most > >half what it costs to buy here - US) , etc.

I think that if you go over the causeway into Malaysia, to the town of Jahor Bahor, or take the shuttle up to KL you will get even better prices,
I can only compare prices with UK pounds, but I bought a flash unit which is 250 Uk pounds here in England, in KL it cost me 83 UK Pounds, In S,pore it would have cost me as much as in England. In S,pore, Try the dealers in the Lucky Plaza, there is one on the Sidewalk who has MF equip, and is open to bargaining. hope that helps
Cheers
Robert Givens

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998
From: Bob_Maxey@mtn.3com.com
Subject: Re: HASSY's Insane Pricing Plan -Forwarded
Keep in mind that these products might not carry a warranty. quite often grey market stuff does not. Regardless of if there is a warranty card enclosed or not. If Hasselblad gets a damaged item in for warranty repair, the serial number will tell them which country the item was sold in.
Be Careful.
RM

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998
From: David Freedman dpfreedman@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: hasselblad V1 #230
>can anybody reccommend a good, reliable >dealer in Hong Kong? >
I can! Cameron Photo. Mr. Chin is honest and reliable. He's an authorized Leica, Nikon, Hasselblad, etc. dealer. I've mail-ordered Leica R lenses from him. No problem.
The shop is located at 16 Lock Rd, Kowloon (just behind the Hyatt Hotel).
Give him a call: 011 852 2369-1063.

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998
From: Bob_Maxey@mtn.3com.com
Reply to: hasselblad@kelvin.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Hey, BobM, Whattaya think?
Perhaps, if the equipment came with a full U.S. Warranty, not always the case if equipment is imported. And also, what about the import taxes, the duty and shipping? All must be factored in. Finally, do not believe that the dealer is getting rich. I worked for a photographic firm here in Salt Lake city, from 1974 to 1985, and I know how these things work.
RM

Grand Cayman Savings Overnight on Hasselblads
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Reply to: hasselblad@kelvin.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Hey, BobM, Whattaya think?
Just bought a 903SWC and there were NO taxes nor duty. Just FedEx shipping for overnight delivery.

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hey, BobM, Whattaya think?
Check out the Grand Cayman ad in Shutterbug. Lady is super nice there and you may either pick it up when visiting the island or have it shipped FedEx overnight. No taxes nor duty.
Just bought a 903SWC from there. Get new merchandise at better prices than on the used market here.

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998
From: Matthew Endo matt@drapp.com
Subject: re: Lens prices in Japan

>I am looking to buy either a 75-300 f/4.5-5.6 Nikkor or a 80-200 f/2.8 >Nikkor while the Nikon USA rebates are available. Can some one tell me what >the prices for these lenses are in Japan ?

Nikon USA rebates only apply to certain items purchased in the USA with US warranty. So any lenses purchased in Japan do not qualify for these rebates.
Price for 75-300 f/4.5-5.6D is 41,600 yen and 80-200 f2.8D is around 105,000 yen (best I have seen is 100,000).
Cheers,
Matt

Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998
From: Ed Kaspar ukaspar@bigfoot.com
Subject: Re: Lens prices in Japan
Ashok,
I just bought two 75-300s here in Japan for some friends in the US, and the best price I could get was 40,000 yen apiece. At today's exchange rate of 138 yen to the dollar, that would be around USD290. That was with tax included, so it was the total price, and it would have been the same if I had bought only one lens. It was purchased at my local (chain) camera store where I am a regular, so I know it was a good price. If your friend is buying in Tokyo at one of the large stores, s/he might be able to get it for less, but I doubt it. BTW, it was marked at 41380 yen. As for the 80-200 2.8, I bought it two years ago, and the price then was 110,000. If the price is still the same today, that translates into about USD800. I could have gotten it for less, but didn't really shop around. I any case, I would say get the 80-200 2.8!
See ya,
Ed Kaspar
Yonezawa-shi
Yamagata-ken
Japan
http://welcome.to/edsphotos
Ed's Photos of Japan
http://www.twics.com/~comsig/ajet/
The Association for Japan Exchange and Teaching Online
http://www.twics.com/~comsig/index.html
AJET Comsig Online

Save 50% on Nikon Accessories from Japan
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998
From: David Swager SWAGDW@doe-md.gov
Subject: re: Lens prices in Japan

>Can some one tell me what the prices for these lenses are >in Japan ? I can get them thru a friend who is going there soon.

Have him bring back a dozen or so of the Nikon 39mm rear drop in circular polarizing filters. They are about 1/2 price of what they are here (When you can get them). You can sell them on the digest.

From: jchow@atom.isl.melco.co.jp (James Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Found great prices on Mamiya 7 from Singapore
Date: 3 Jul 1998
Mamiya stuff is cheap in Japan. You can get the M7 w/ 80mm lens for about $1350 USD. The 43mm lens is about $1300. The other lenses cost less. There's no mailorder from the big chain stores which offer these prices, so you have to fly to Japan to get that price.
--Jim

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998
From: toby tobyf@ziplink.net
Subject: [Rollei] off topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.

>Be aware that the really low priced Rollei stuff is gray market. > >Also, watch out for the sales tax thing. You are legally obligated to pay >your state's sales tax in most states no matter where you buy. Last year >Connecticut did an audit of some of the big NYC mail order companies and >sent bills to photographers in CT for the sales tax they should have paid. >A good friend of mine got a bill for almost $ 7,000 !!! They went back >some years, I don't recall how many, and the people who got the bills had >30 days to pay up. > >I am sure other states are looking at what CT did and thinking of doing the >same. >Bob.

Bob-
I got nailed by the state of Rhode Island for the same thing. A bill out of nowhere for $2000! They call it a "Use Tax". It says in the US Constitution
Section 9 Clause 5:
"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."
How they get around this I don't know but it sound like Class Action time to me! My congressman said it was to "protect" Rhode Island businesses from unfair competition from mail order. Problem is I couldn't have bought this stuff in the State of Rhode Island. I AIN'T GONNA PAY...I moved! This is a result of reciprocal agreements between 37 states. The agreement states that if a business (say in Connecticut) is audited by Connecticut's Sales Tax dept. they will report all mail order sales to all of the out of state Sales Tax departments that are part of the reciprocal agreement. The bills are forthcoming...and the check is in the mail..and blah, blah, blah...
Good luck all.
Regards-
Toby Fitch
Brooklyn USA

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998
From: Edward Meyers aghalide@panix.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] off topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.
About the tax thing--off subject, but applicable if you buy a Rollei, perhaps.
In New York, as a professional photographer, when you buy a professional camera to use in your profession it will produce photographs that cause sales tax to be paid. When you buy such a camera you fill out the proper sales tax exemption form and when you buy the camera, instead of paying the sales tax to the camera shop, you hand him the filled-out form. Ed

Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998
From: David Foy david.foy@shaw.wave.ca
Subject: Re: [Rollei] off topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.
The State of Montana has no sales tax. Maybe somebody should set up a buying office in Billings (nice little town) and you could have them buy for you. Invoices would say "Bill to" the Montana office and "Ship to" you, in your heavily-taxed State. There would be no "use tax" report, and as far as I can tell it looks perfectly legal.
David Foy
Calgary, AB (no sales tax in Alberta, either) T2M 3E7

Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998
From: "Stuart A. Pearl" sapearl@mindspring.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Grey Market Mail Order Surprises/Import Duties, etc.
I've read with great interest the discussion on import duties, taxes, etc. I've wanted to comment earlier but have been out shooting the past several weekends and have only been able to lurk and read.
Back in the late 90's I purchased a Metz Flash from one of the larger New York mail order camera houses; can't remember the name. It worked perfectly and was about $75 cheaper than if I'd bought it locally. I was also told it came with the full U.S. Warranty. Everything went well for several years of good use - I do about 21 weddings and Bar Mitzvahs a year - until it broke down under "normal wear and tear." Of course it was well out of warranty. I took it to one of the larger and reputable pro camera stores in the city, expecting to pay fair and reasonable out of warranty repair charges.
After about 10 days I got a call stating that the Metz couldn't be repaired. The local shop did not have the necessary parts and had to contact the importer (Bogen?) for the replacement components. The importer then did a search on my Metz serial number and discovered that it was not imported into this country by their recognized distribution channels: they considered it grey market and refused to sell the local repair shop the necessary parts. This was a real shock to me as I wasn't even looking for warranty service, just some "pay as you go" repairs. I wouldn't even know how to begin importing something directly from oversees, and here I got burned by an east coast vendor. That flash sits on my shelf today, out of active service, only being used to drain my nicads prior to charging.
- Stuart Pearl sapearl@mindspring.com

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998
From: JJMcF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] off topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.
John,
I don't question the right of a state to impose a tax on its citizens, but what about when I buy from another state via mail order?
If I buy from England, I don't have to pay VAT. Why should I pay sales tax to a state I do not reside in except when I am physically there?
Bob
You should not. Generally speaking, if you live in a state other than Pennsylvania and buy from a Pennsylvania vendor via mail order, you do not owe Pennsylvania sales tax. Such a tax would be unconstitutional. However, if you live in Pennsylvania and buy via mail order from a Michigan firm, you owe Pennsylvania use tax (but Michigan cannot tax either the sale or use). The issue is constitutional due process. Pennsylvania voters can vote to tax themselves, but not to tax citizens of another state unless such citizens voluntarily choose to come into Pennsylvania and buy stuff.

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998
From: "Paul M. Anton" pmanton@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] off topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.
I live in Washington (the state) and our tax collectors are very aggressively seeking out all the out of state mail order companies to collect their tax for them.
Many of the larger companies are already doing this. We too are required to pay either sales or use tax on ALL purchases. This state is VERY serious about closing all the loopholes. I am getting more and more junk mail with a requirement to include state tax when ordering, even though the company has no office in Washington state.
I do a LOT of mail order buying. One of my daughters is a CPA for Washington State Internal Revenue service. She tells me that many states are right now hammering out reciprocal agreements for tax collection. :-(
Cheers:
Paul Anton
pmanton@ix.netcom.com

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998
From: JJMcF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] off topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.
you write:
Also, I posted a message which received no comment. If you're a professional photographer, in New York State, when you buy equipment you don't have to pay sales tax. Check this out in your state. The idea is that the camera produces photographs for which you collect sales tax. Check with your accountant, if you're a pro. Ed
This is known as the "manufacturing exemption" (exemption for materials and equipment used in manufacturing). There are other relevant exemptions, including the "resale exemption" for dealers who collect tax on the sale to the ultimate consumer.

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998
From: "Thomas L. Clark" tomclark@sprynet.com
Subject: Re: Trademarks, possible solution RE: Grey Market
I have ordered repair parts for my Mamiya camera(s) from Mamiya USA and was NEVER asked to give any kind of serial numbers or warranty card information.
Granted my stuff was old RB67 vintage equipment so mayby they were already past caring about it.

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998
From: Bob_Maxey@mtn.3com.com
Subject: Camera Repair Parts
I have ordered repair parts for my Mamiya camera(s) from Mamiya USA and was NEVER asked to give any kind of serial numbers or warranty card information.
Here is a little known fact: Manufacturers are required to supply repair parts to those who need them. There are only a few extenuating circumstances where that can refuse - if they do not have an ample supply of parts to meet 'expected Repair needs', for example. It is the same for repair books and manuals as well. The costs are high to most peoplre who need them, or it can be.
RM

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
[1] Re: Buying Nikon in Japan
From: matt@gol.com (Matthew J. Endo)
Date: Wed Jun 24 1998
Dugphoto dugphoto@aol.com wrote:

> My brother is going to Japan, Thailand, and Vietnam in August and has > offered to buy Nikon equipment for me while in Japan. I'm specifically > interested in Nikon lenses, a flash, and maybe a N90 body, if the price is > right. Here are my questions. > 1) Can anyone suggest reputable stores in Tokyo where he might go to find > good quality (not grey market) Nikon products at low prices? > 2) Given the economy there now, how much might he expect to pay compared > to US prices? > 3) Will Japanese dealers negoiate with him on price? > 4) How much will customs charge? > > Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

1. There are no grey market goods here. They are all made in Japan (OK, I should say, warranteed by Nikon Japan) with the worldwide warranty. The main camera shop area in Tokyo is in Shinjuku. I recommend Yodobashi, Sakura, or Bic in Ikebukuro. Also check out Fujiya in Nakano but they don't negotiate on price.
2. Economy has nothing to do with the prices (except I have seen a slight decrease in price due to the season), it has everything to do with the exchange rate, i.e. strong dollar, weak yen.
3. Price can be negotiated, maybe 3-5 percent below posted prices. You can buy duty free with a tourist (temporary visitor) visa.
4. Customs-you are on your own, I have no idea what the customs officer will stick you for, see Frank's page.
URLS:
http://speedcore.com/usr/fs/camera/jshop.html
and
http://photo.net/photo/japan-buying.html
E-mail me if you need prices on specific Nikon equipment.
--
Matt
matt@gol.com

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: ark@research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
[1] Re: Buying Nikon in Japan
Date: Fri Jun 26 1998
Marcos H. Woehrmann marcos@netcom.com wrote:

> I think the opposite applies if you are from the US. Nikon USA won't > repair anything under warranty unless they imported it. So if I go > to Japan to buy a 20-35 f2.8 and it breaks I have to send it back to > Japan to have it fixed. So paying additional for a "Nikon" warranty > doesn't help me much.

False, at least the last time I checked. At that time, Nikon USA said that they would repair any equipment that was purchased through legitimate channels in the country of purchase. So if you buy a lens in Japan, and can produce a Japanese warranty card and -- this is important -- a Japanese sales slip, Nikon USA will repair it.
Or so I believe. Check with them if you want to be sure.
--
--Andrew Koenig
ark@research.att.com
http://www.research.att.com/info/ark

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Wed Jul 08 1998
From: DOUGLAS OLIVARES olivaresd001@hawaii.rr.com
To: Alan Bell blk@netcom.com
[1] Re: Buy Goods in Japan Now?
Be prepared to get your equipment markings and manuals in Japanese!!! Otherwise, yes, the prices are going to be cheaper. You can still come home and call the particular manufacturer, give them the model number of your product and they will, for a fee, send you an English manual. The Japanese characters on your equipment, however, will still be there.
doug - out.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: dharris@emissary.co.jp (Dean C. Harris)
[1] Re: Buy Goods in Japan Now?
Date: Fri Jul 10 1998
DOUGLAS OLIVARES wrote:

>Be prepared to get your equipment markings and manuals in Japanese!!! >Otherwise, yes, the prices are going to be cheaper. You can still come >home and call the particular manufacturer, give them the model number of >your product and they will, for a fee, send you an English manual. The >Japanese characters on your equipment, however, will still be there. > >doug - out.

What Japanese characters? I boght my gear here in Tokyo and my EOS 55 (Elan IIE QD) has English markings. May vary with manufacturer...
Most shops will be happy to exchange the JP manual for and English one.
Dean

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: tds@enteract.com
[1] Re: Buy Goods in Japan Now?
Date: Wed Jul 08 1998
The amount of discount is extradorinary compared to US prices.
The dollar is strong against the Yen.
Its usually the 10's of %.
Its why a lot of people wished that a Japanese corp would put a Web site in English with these prices in US dollars with the cost of conversion included.
Shipping should be < $100.
Another industry that could be created from this is some after market manuals (G).
Bob.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: ttanaka@uoguelph.ca (Takuji Tanaka)
Date: Mon Jul 13 1998
I have not tried to have my cameras fixed. But my Japanese warranty cards clearly say any official distributor in any countries will be happy to fix the camera with the warranty card with no charge while in the warranty period. (All my photo equip came from Japan with me, and they are factory warrantied goods except ones from used market. )
If the US distributor would not fix the camera with international warranty which is provided in Japan, the maker is lying?????
According some past posts in rec.photo.equipment.35mm, the US distributors would fix your camera if you show them proof of that it is purchased through an official distributor anywhere in the world.
Tak

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: tom@graywolf.com (Tom Rittenhouse)
[1] Re: Buy Goods in Japan Now?
Date: Mon Jul 13 1998
unidextr@mindspring.com wrote: | |Of course this may not be the case in Canada, but it is in the US and |because of this in many areas there are consumer protection laws that |require merchants to notify prospective customers when the product they are |selling was not obtained through the authorized US distribution channels |(in other words, gray market goods!) |

If the item is bought at "retail" the international warrenty is usually good in the US. One thing you have to watch out for though is if the US distributor owns the trade mark, they can require US customs to deface it when you return to the US.
That used to be common. Mamiya is the only one that I have heard of that still does that with cameras.
--
Graywolf (Tom Rittenhouse)

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01)
[1] Re: Buy Goods in Japan Now?
Date: Wed Jul 15 1998
This posting has certainly gotten a lot of conjecture instead of facts,--particularly from Noozshootr@aol.com, as quoted in Alan Bell's posting.
He stated that "everything you purchase is subject to a 10 percent import tax when the total amount exceeds $400. And you must have the receipts to prove it. And, they must be in English..."
FALSE. Articles imported in excess of your Customs exemption (generally $400 per individual) will be subject to duty unless the items are entitled to free entry or are prohibited. The Customs inspector will place items with the highest rate of duty under your exemption, and duty will be assessed on the lower-rated items. After DEDUCTING your EXEMPTIONS and the value of any duty-free articles, a flat 10 percent rate of duty will be applied to the next $1000 worth (fair retail value) of merchandise. Any dollar amount more than $1000 will be dutiable at the various rates of duty applicable to the articles, as provided for in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule. Thus, if you paid $450 for something, subtract the $400 and 10 percent of 50 bucks is $5.
The earlier posting also alleges that you better get a little gold oval sticker on everything or you'll be getting the rejects. FALSE. That was the norm many years ago but not the case today. These allegations of millions of of SECONDS floating around looking for some sucker are patent BS. If you're buying name-brand stuff from a major shop overseas, you can generally be assured that they are not out to get you.
Hong Kong prices are NOT what they used to be. Yes, 20 years ago, even I saved a fortune on Nikon stuff purchased in Hong Kong. That was Hong Kong then,--not today. Japan prices of today are subject to the going monetary exchange rate. With the US dollar move up against the Yen, you should be prepared to know the price of the same item in the states,--say through a reliable NY mail order shop,--and then be prepared to deal.
The grinding off of trademarks,--which was a big business by Customs done on returning Viet Nam veterans in the early 70's is a very rare occurance today. If you appear to be bringing in more than what appears to be for your personal use,--beware, however.
While you should keep good records of your purchases (and keep them with you as you pass through Customs), the Customs officials KNOW what the going price is for nearly everything. If you fudge on your declaration, they'll know it. They see hundreds of people and tons of stuff EVERYDAY. They're the best authorities on prices in the world. THEN, they'll really nail you, if you make it up.
An alternative to carrying things back to the states is MAIL. You can always have stuff mailed back for you. The $400 exemption applies to things you CARRY OUT with you.
Not long ago I sent back by mail many foreign items and Customs didn't even bother to collect a cent at delivery time. Sometimes it just isn't worth it to them. That works for me!
If you are taking foreign articles with you out of the States, make sure (if they look pretty new) that you registered them earlier with US Customs on a Certificate of Registration (CF 4457). Otherwise they'll hit you up for duty,--possibly again!
Customs today is primarily looking for bad guys,--drug smugglers and others of their sort,--not the photography hobbyists. They rarely spend much time on regular folks.
Many of Takuji Tanaka's comments are right on (post #16)
Edgy01 (used to live in Japan, and been going through Customs for decades).

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998
From: "Chris D. Boden" kr5c-bdn@pop.asahi-net.or.jp
Subject: Tokyo Nikon Prices
Nikonistas,
Over the past couple of months or so several list members, presumably spurred on by the plummeting yen, have requested up-to-date prices for Nikon equipment in Tokyo. As I was on a buying trip myself over the w/e here are some current (98/07/18) prices for "pro" Nikon kit, with the equivalents in US dollars, UK pounds and Australian dollars.

Yen USD UKP ASD - --------------------------------------------------- Bodies - --------------------------------------------------- F5 + 50/1.4 301,000 2,155 1,312 3,434 FM10 (body) 28,000 200 122 319 - --------------------------------------------------- AF-D Primes - --------------------------------------------------- 16/2.8D 87,400 626 381 997 18/2.8D 131,800 943 575 1,504 20/2.8D 51,900 372 226 592 24/2.8D 37,300 267 163 426 28/2.8D 27,300 195 119 311 28/1.4D 172,600 1,235 752 1,969 35/2.0D 31,100 223 136 355 50/1.4D 28,900 207 126 330 50/1.8D 16,700 120 73 191 85/1.8D 38,600 276 168 440 85/1.4D 101,500 727 442 1,158 105/2DC 99,000 709 432 1,130 130/2DC 109,500 784 477 1,249 180/2.8D 84,500 605 368 964 300/4D 93,500 669 408 1,067 - --------------------------------------------------- Zooms - --------------------------------------------------- 20-35/2.8D 164,200 1,175 716 1,874 35-70/2.8D 76,000 544 331 867 80-200/2.8D 111,700 800 487 1,274 24-120/ 60,800 435 265 694 3.5-5.6D 24-50/3.3-4.5D 44,100 316 192 503 70-300/4-5.6D 41,500 297 181 474 - --------------------------------------------------- Macros - --------------------------------------------------- 60/2.8D 43,300 310 189 494 105/2.8D 62,300 446 272 711 200/4D 147,800 1,058 644 1,686 70-180/ 128,000 916 558 1,460 4.5-5.6D - --------------------------------------------------- Sigma - --------------------------------------------------- 70-200/2.8 HSM 105,000 752 458 1,198 400/5.6 macro 63,600 455 277 726 170-500mm/5-6.3 56,000 401 244 639 - --------------------------------------------------- Tokina - --------------------------------------------------- 20-35/2.8 91,500 655 399 1,044 28-70/2.8 49,400 354 215 564 80-200/2.8 74,800 535 326 853 400/5.6 34,800 249 152 397 - ----- Notes - -----

If the above appeals to you, you should probably start by reading James Chow's "Buying a Camera in Japan" on photo.net (the URL is http://photo.net/photo/japan-buying.html). Taken together with the associated comments this is a pretty good overview of the situation, though I've personally found BIC camera in Ikebukuro (you want the Seibu exit from the east side of the JR station) to be slightly cheaper than the big Shinjuku stores - they've recently acquired an English-speaking salesperson as well. The differences are not that great (1-2% or so), although for a major purchase you really should shop around - see Mike C's comments on this. In any case the prices above are from BIC.
Some other points to consider .....
1) The currency conversion rates I've used are 1 yen = 0.007158 US dollars, 0.004359 UK pounds and 0.01144 Australian dollars respectively. You can get up-to-date rates from http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic for most convertible currencies. Obviously these will change, so mail me if you want the MS Excel version of the above table.
2) The lens lists above are limited to the AF-Ds (and even then only the ones I'd personally consider buying), the Micros and a few off-branders of topical interest. There should be enough data to allow extrapolation to others.
3) Body Prices. These are usually a pain to calculate, as Japanese stores are just as bad for the "buy a crappy plastic zoom with your expensive body" scam (IMO) as their western counterparts. I've given an F5 + 50/1.4 quote to give you a general idea, however, as well as the price I paid for my FM10 backup body a couple of weeks back. An interesting trivia point about the latter which hasn't been mentioned much - it has mirror lockup! Well, "mirror pre-fire" is probably a fairer description; basically if you use the self-timer the mirror flips up at the start of the countdown cycle, although you still have the slight vibration from the clockwork timer mechanism to worry about .....
4) The Sigma 70-200/2.8 HSM *is* available in Nikon mount, but only works with the F90 and F5, whose onboard AF systems are pretty quick anyway. As you can see it's not really much cheaper than the Nikon equivalent, and somehow I doubt it's optically superior either. So unless you really need simultaneous MF/AF, I'd give it a miss (IMHO - come to think of it even if you do need tandem MF/AF a Canon 70-200/2.8L (144,000 yen) and a cheap EOS body may be a more reliable option).
5) OTOH, the Tokina 20-35/2.8 is dramatically cheaper than the Nikon equivalent and seems to have convinced even a Nikon evangelist like Moose Peterson of it's virtues (http://www.moose395.net/firstlooks.html), so you may want to give it a look. I have the cheaper, older and slower version of this lens and it's pretty good for street festivals and the like, though too flare-prone for landscape work.
6) Unless you're coming from the UK don't plan on buying film here, particularly not in 120 format where the range on offer is poor, especially if you're a fan of Kodak's print emulsions. Having said that I've been told it's possible to get Fuji Velvia 4x5 Quickloads quite cheaply, though I can't vouch for this myself.
7) "Big long glass" lenses (i.e. the 300mm+ AF-Ss and AF-Is) are generally not displayed in store lens racks; the price is usually a matter for negotiation and sometimes even haggling. Again you can probably extrapolate prices from the data above.
Anyway, I hope this helps anyone considering a buying trip.
- Chris Boden

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- To form the email address that I actually read, remove the musical instrument and the 11-letter movie name and add standard punctuation (1 word userid). - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- cdboden banjo staff chem deliverance tsukuba ac jp | Squeal, spammers !! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Andre Calciu a.calciu-dumitr@csu-e.csuohio.edu
[1] Re: Price of Mamiya 7 in Far East?
Date: Mon Jul 20 1998

> Does anyone know what the US Custom duties are for importing *used* > camera equipment into the US if any?

6% duties

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: mail@address.123 (User Name)
[1] Any Reason NOT to Buy Gray Market Nikon N90s/F90x?
Date: Mon Jul 20 1998
I'm thinking about buying a Nikon N90s. I'm actually thinking about getting the gray-market version, the F90x.
Can anyone tell me if there is a reason NOT to buy the gray market version? It seems to be substantially cheaper. Is there any difference at all between the two? Does B&H; provide good warranty service?
Thanks,
David

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: pgsimmons@hotmail.com
[1] Re: Price of Mamiya 7 in Far East?
Date: Wed Jul 22 1998
I had a friend who lives in Tokyo check on the price of the Mamiya 7 with the 80 mm lens in Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku. As of a month ago it was Y192,500.
Regards
Peter

Singapore - Cheaper than Japan?
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998
From: Ho Jong Boo jongboo@singnet.com.sg
Subject: Re: nikon-digest V3 #408

> >Over the past couple of months or so several list members, presumably >spurred on by the plummeting yen, have requested up-to-date prices for >Nikon equipment in Tokyo. As I was on a buying trip myself over the w/e >here are some current (98/07/18) prices for "pro" Nikon kit, with the >equivalents in US dollars, UK pounds and Australian dollars. > > Yen USD UKP ASD >- --------------------------------------------------- >Bodies >- --------------------------------------------------- >F5 + 50/1.4 301,000 2,155 1,312 3,434 >FM10 (body) 28,000 200 122 319 >

Why buy from Japan? It is cheaper to buy from Singapore! You still get world-wide warranty and not gray-market versions.
S$ US$ - ------------------------------------------- F5 3,100 1,823.53 @US$1 = S$1.7 AF 50/1.4 340 200 -------- Total 2,023.53

With favorable exchange rate due Asia currency turmoil, it is better buy! Even Gitzo tripods are so much cheaper in Singapore.

Date: July 22, 1998
From: Ken Aoki kxa@tky2.3web.ne.jp
Subject: Re: Tokyo Nikon Prices
This maybe fine detail, but you can do a little bit better than that, even with*out* any haggling. Most of the time, the difference is few %. The prices are published on the web at
http://www.sanpou.co.jp/SA/TM2.cgi?config=prni.dat
Since some people told me that they had problems reading this page, I will indicate the prices I can find and are cheaper by arrows ->. Btw, I think these prices are pretty low, but you may be able to do better, perhaps if you haggle. I do recommend the Shinjuku area since there is a large selection of shops there. If you haven't already, take a look at Frank Sheeran's account, which is both educational and fun (IMHO)
http://speedcore.com/usr/fs/camera/jshop.html
Fujiya (not exactly at Shinjuku) might be interesting.
Sanpou is a bit out of the way (Gakugeidai station on the Tokyu line) so I would not recommend it to travellers. I use them but that's because it's convenient for me. I don't think haggling is effective at Sanpou. (There are no-haggling-but-offical-price-low type shops and the opposite type of shops. I have yet to buy something big enough to feel that it's worth the hassle of haggling.) Maybe when I go for the 80-200/F2.8....
All prices in yen and all brand new with Nikon wty.
CBoden> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 03:34:10 +0900 CBoden> From: "Chris D. Boden" CBoden> Subject: Tokyo Nikon Prices CBoden> Yen USD UKP ASD CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> Bodies CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> F5 + 50/1.4 301,000 2,155 1,312 3,434 -> 253,000 CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> AF-D Primes CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> 16/2.8D 87,400 626 381 997 -> 74,000 CBoden> 18/2.8D 131,800 943 575 1,504 -> 125,000 CBoden> 24/2.8D 37,300 267 163 426 -> 35,000 CBoden> 28/2.8D 27,300 195 119 311 -> 26,000 CBoden> 28/1.4D 172,600 1,235 752 1,969 -> 171,000 CBoden> 35/2.0D 31,100 223 136 355 -> 30,000 CBoden> 50/1.4D 28,900 207 126 330 -> 28,000 CBoden> 85/1.8D 38,600 276 168 440 -> 37,000 CBoden> 85/1.4D 101,500 727 442 1,158 -> 100,000 CBoden> 105/2DC 99,000 709 432 1,130 -> 94,000 CBoden> 180/2.8D 84,500 605 368 964 -> 76,000 CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> Zooms CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> 80-200/2.8D 111,700 800 487 1,274 -> 103,000 CBoden> 24-50/3.3-4.5D 44,100 316 192 503 -> 42,000 CBoden> 70-300/4-5.6D 41,500 297 181 474 -> 39,500 CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> Macros CBoden> - --------------------------------------------------- CBoden> 200/4D 147,800 1,058 644 1,686 -> 140,000 CBoden> 70-180/ 128,000 916 558 1,460 CBoden> 4.5-5.6D -> 120,000 - --- Ken Aoki mailto:kxa@tky2.3web.ne.jp

Save Big $$ - Buy by Fax from Hong Kong!
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998
From: David Freedman dpfreedman@worldnet.att.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: quote usa/APP
How 'bout this from Cameron Photo in Hong Kong faxed to me two days ago:
Hasselblad 40mm CF FLE HK$19,500 (approx. US$2532)
Hasselblad A32 Film Magazine HK$4,500 (approx. US$584)
Hasselblad A24 Film Magazine HK$4,400 (approx. US$571)

Good savings on some Nikon gear as well:
Nikon F5 body HK$12,800 (approx. US$1662)
Nikon 300mm/2.8 AF-S HK$26,800 (approx. US$3480)

I may go for the 300 AF-S and the 40 CF; the prices are mighty tempting!
Dave F.

Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998
From: David Freedman dpfreedman@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: quote usa/APP
David;
Here's the info you requested:
Cameron Photo Co.
Shop No. G35, Hyatt Regency Hotel
16 Lock Rd.
Kowloon, Hong Kong
Phone: 011 852 2369-1063
Fax: 011 852 2739-8575
Mr. K.M. Chin is the owner. A fine gentlemen and a pleasure to deal with.
Regards,
Dave F.

Customs Duty - more a Nibble than a Byte?
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998
From: David Freedman dpfreedman@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: quote usa/APP
You wrote:
>You should keep in mind that US Customs will want to collect import duty on >these purchases and since they are mail order and not purchased by you while >you are out of the country the entire amount is subject to duty. Minimum >rate would be 10%. You might also be subject to your local sales tax. >Bill

Customs duty on my last order from Hong Kong was nowhere near 10%. I purchased 70-180/2.8 APO and 280/4 APO lenses for my Leica. Purchase price was approximately US$7,800. Shipping, insurance, customs clearance was handled by DHL. Needless to say, the manifest clearly disclosed the exact contents and purchase price; there was no attempt to conceal the true value from Customs. I received an invoice directly from DHL for shipping and Customs charges. The total amount was approximately $340. Of this amount, approximately $120 (to the best of my recollection) was for shipping and insurance. I'm sorry I can't be more precise but the paperwork is hiding from me at the moment.
Regards,
Dave F.

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998
From: "Andrew Alexander Malcolm, Dr" andy@gintic.gov.sg
Subject: World Wide Warranty as issued in Singapore
Hi,
There has been some comments about the validity of Worldwide Warranties as issued in Singapore.
The warranty instructions with all my Nikon kit purchased in Singapore clearly states that it is valid in
Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Canary Islands, Chile, Cyprus, Czech Rep., Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Germany, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Kuwait, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, UAE, UK, Uruguay, USA and Japan
Andy
Dr. Andrew A. Malcolm
Machine Vision & Sensors Group
Gintic Institute of Manufacturing Technology
71 Nanyang Drive, Singapore 638075
Tel (65) 793 8295 Fax (65) 791 6377
Email andy@gintic.gov.sg
Web http://england.gintic.gov.sg:8000

Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] back on topic: watch out for the sales tax thing.

>The sign "report all purchases made overseas as you must pay New York State >sales tax" undoubtedly refers to New York State residents only. Canadians >returning to Canada (or receiving merchandise bought by mail from outside >the country) are required to pay Canadian Goods and Services Tax (GST, a >national sales tax) on foreign purchases, whether or not customs duties are >paid. If there was a uniform nationwide US sales tax, you'd pay it too. > >If you live in a tax-taking State, Province, or Country, then you have to >pay taxes on your purchases, whether you buy locally or import (personally >or by mail). It's called a Sales Tax since it's almost always collected at >the point of sale by the seller, but it's more properly a Use Tax. In Japan >it's called a "Consumption Tax," in keeping with that admirable Japanese >candor (a bilingual friend reports a neon sign in Hawaii that says "Exotic >Dancers" and, below it, in Japanese writing, "Naked Women".) > >There's a flip side -- out-of-Province buyers who purchase goods in Ontario >can go home and mail in a request to have the Ontario sales tax refunded. >I've done it several times (I've also had the Japanese Use Tax refunded on >exiting Japan). Ontario's sales tax bite is quite high, so it's a nice >rebate. It's philosophically correct, too. If you're not a resident of >Ontario or Japan, you should not be taxed by the government of Ontario or >Japan. > >_____________________________ >David Foy >MarkeTactics(TM) >1431 6th St NW >Calgary, AB T2M 3E7 >Canada >(403)282-0512, voice and fax

Most European countries also will refund VAT on purchases made while there. I've only bothered with this for England, since that's the only country I have made any substantial purchases in, and it is a paperwork headache. But for 12% (if my memory is right) it is worth it on a big-ticket item.
Rollei content: One of the items I got VAT back on was a Rollei 3003 outfit bought in London.
Bob

From: "G Colnar" gcolnar@rmi.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Any Reason NOT to Buy Gray Market Nikon N90s/F90x?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998
Nikon USA has not released the information for repairing the F5 to local repair shops (manuals and parts). They are keeping the repairs in house for the time being to learn what problems the camera is having. It is my understanding that they will not repair any F5's that do not have a USA warrenty and purchased in the USA. An F5 bought in another country with a valid warrenty for that country is eligible for repair by Nikon USA. If you are looking at the F5 in the USA don't buy the grey market at this time.

|As long as you are not buying an F5. | |Why not a grey market F5? If the retailers offer their own fix or |replace warranty, the consumer is covered, right? If the item cannot be |repaired, the retailer must replace it under warranty... or am I missing |something?

From: email@server.123 (Jim)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Any Reason NOT to Buy Gray Market Nikon N90s/F90x?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998
The gray market N90s from B&H; is $690. That's a pretty big difference.
Jim
carlos@theriver.com (Carlos Alvarez) wrote:

> "Eric Kniager" PRLTWO@prodigy.net wrote: > >>Are you sure there's that much savings after the U.S. rebate? > >There really isn't. Even though I bought my N90s at a local retail store, I >paid $995. With the $150 rebate I'm down to $850. I could have saved about >$40 buying mail order, or about $80 buying gray. Not enough to sway me, but >for some, maybe. > >As far as buying locally, I'm having and odd problem with the matrix metering. >It might be me, or might be the camera. Of course, the dealer invited me to >bring my body in and compare it to another in-stock body. If mine has a >problem, I get an on-the-spot exchange. Hell yeah, that's worth $80.

Emailed Price Quote Savings on Hasselblad
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998
From: Ed Kirkpatrick edkirkpatrick@erols.com
To: Hasselblad Users Group hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Fw: quote usa/APP
Just in case anyone is still interested in price differentials between Hasselblad USA and the Orient, this quote is just two weeks old. The Singapore $ is worth about $0.584 against the US $. That works out to $1845 for a new Hasselblad CF 180mm f4 lens.
That little silver warranty card Hasselblad USA sent to me is quite expensive.
I hope those boys up there in New Jersey are enjoying their shiny BMW's!
Ed Kirkpatrick
-----Original Message-----
From: Cathay Photo cathayph@pacific.net.sg
To: edkirkpatrick@erols.com
Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 2:50 AM
Subject: quote usa/APP
To : Ed Kirkpatrick (edkirkpatrick@erols.com)
Comments: Hasselblad CF 180mm f4 lens @S$3160
Insurance optional S$20
The above offer includes Air Parcel Postage to you in the US. It is valid for 2 weeks from todate. Delivery takes about 14 or more working days. Goods are exstock subject to unsold. Terms of payment Visa/Mastercard; prior to shipping.
If you wish to mail-order we would require your full credit-card details and delivery address.
We will clear payment first then ship your order out. Please indicate if you require Insurance.
We hope that our offer is acceptable to you & look forward to your favourable decision soon.
Thank you and regards,
Cathay Photo Store
NB : If purchases are made in person in Singapore we would have to levy a 3% Sales Tax on the above prices. You may apply for a Tax-refund when you leave the country provided your purchases exceed S$300 and that you are a tourist. You must exit via Changi International Airport in-order to claim the refund there.

From: "clement ng" kafeqpts@singnet.com.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Price of Mamiya 7 in Far East?
Date: 29 Jul 1998
hi guys,
S$2,600.00 at Cathay Photo in SINGAPORE.
FYI
pgsimmons@hotmail.com wrote

> I had a friend who lives in Tokyo check on the price of the Mamiya 7 with the > 80 mm > lens in Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku. As of a month ago it was Y192,500. > Regards > Peter > > > meyhan@aol.com (Meyhan) wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone know the approximate prices of Mamiya 7 and lenses in either > > Thailand or Japan? > > Thanks, > > Tom

Saving via USA B&H; Store Imported Grey Market
From: jfel@pr.net (jfel@pr.net)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Any Reason NOT to Buy Gray Market Nikon N90s/F90x?
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998
I bought a Nikon F90x from B&H; for $689.95+$16 shipping. The camera seems to be just fine. It's a loud camera but I just received a test roll of film back from my local photo lab and the photos are great. I trust B&H; in case anything goes wrong with it. I have bought several Grey Market lenses from them in the past. This is the first time I buy a grey camera but it seems ok. I personally called Nikon and they told me there is no difference between the F90x and N90s. Just the warranty. If you are going to buy a grey market F90x do it through B&H.; I can assure you it is the only place that will give you peace of mind. Don't use Smile Photo, AAA, Abes's, Family, etc... You can never get a straight answer from them for anything and they have lied to me in the past. Good luck!

user@address.123 wrote: > I'm thinking about buying a Nikon N90s. I'm actually thinking about > getting the gray-market version, the F90x. > > Can anyone tell me if there is a reason NOT to buy the gray market > version? It seems to be substantially cheaper. Is there any difference at > all between the two? Does B&H; provide good warranty service? > > Thanks, > David

From: apollo apollo.go@cern.ch
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.film+labs
Subject: Re: 35mm prices in Switzerland
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998
Hi Mitch,
Negative Film prices in Switzerland are more expensive, not talking about developtment: typically 8 SFr. per Kodak 36 pos. and the development could cost about 15 SFr. absolute minimum.
As for Slides, if you take Sensia and Kodakchrome, then you are ok. Often you can find twin pack of Kodakchrome 64 for 30 SFr. (development included). For Sensia, the cheapest I've found was 6.7 SFr. a rolle without development and Velvia for around 10 SFr. E6 development runs between 5-12 SFr.
Nowadays I get films from HongKong since my brother-in-law live there and share the same hobby.
Enjoy Switzerland, a wonderful place for Landscape photography! Apollo

From: loeffel@guest.iis.ee.ethz.ch (Frank Loeffel)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
Subject: Re: 35mm prices in Switzerland
Date: 30 Jul 1998
gusat@eecg.toronto.edu (Mitch Gusat) writes:

>I plan on moving to Zurich for the next years. I burn lots of >slide (Sensia, Kodakchrome) and negative film, which here in >Toronto costs cca. C$13 per roll (either slides 36 pos., or >film and paper premium processing 24 pos.). >I wonder how much more expensive this hobby could be in >Zurich? Should I just buy a digicam ($1500) and forget >shooting silver halide in Europe?

I'm in Zurich and last time I checked Sensia was about 16 CHF /CAD including processing. If that's too much, just order your film from B&H; in NYC. I've ordered lots of gear and film from them and never had a problem.
--
Frank Loeffel :-)
loeffel@guest.iis.ee.ethz.ch

From: Struan Gray struan.gray@sljus.lu.se
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.film+labs
Subject: Re: 35mm prices in Switzerland
Date: 30 Jul 1998
One caveat since Mitch mentioned Kodachrome: Kodak won't honor the pre-paid processing if the film crosses the atlantic. That is, USA process-paid Kodachrome will not be processed free of charge by Kodak's European lab and vice versa.
Other than that, German-speaking Europe tends to be more slide-friendly than the Anglo-Saxon or Romance parts and all the normal films are readily available. If Zurich prices seem too high you can always take a day trip into Germany, France or Italy and stock up.
Struan

From: gordonp@infoserve.net (Gordon Pritchard)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Prices in Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998
Matthew Tichenor mticheno@direct.ca wrote:

>I'm afraid it is hard to find a really fgood store here in Vancouver. I >find most places are overpriced and staff underinterested.

Hey, that's what I've found too!! 'Way overprice, under-interested; nicely put :-)
I pick and choose what I get locally (they _do_ fill a need), and I mail-order the rest (good success with B&H;). When I mail-order, I work hard to avoid UPS's outrageous border-brokerage fees, by either having stuff _mailed_, or sent to a WA-state friend (and I do the border thing myself, for a _lot_ less than $50!).
-Gord
Gordon Pritchard, VE7AGW
White Rock, B.C. Canada
gordonp@infoserve.net

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998
From: Lewis Chan lewis@netvigator.com
Subject: Re: List prices of gear in Hong Kong
Julio,
Photo Scientific and Chung Pui in Stanley street are definitely good places to go. But don't forget to go to Mong Kok too! Three of them that
may worth your visiting are "Wing Shing at Sai Yeung Choi Street", "Man Shing at Tung Choi Street" and "Mong KoK Camera Center". Their prices are among the lowest in Hong Kong.
I've no information on local price list in hong kong web sites. But the following figures may help you to get some idea when you compare to your local price.
The followings are the stuff I bought recently.
Nikon SC-17 HK$380 at Wing Shing
Nikon AF 70-300 f/4-5.6 ED HK$20xx at Wing Shing
Kenko 2x MC-7 HK$820 at Chung Pui
Lewis Chan

Editor's Note: From Nikon Digest..
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998
From: "R. Biddle" biddle@hkstar.com
Subject: Re: Reputable Nikon Photo shops in Hong Kong

>I will be travelling to HK to visit relatives soon, and I was wondering >whether anyone could tell me what reputable photo shops they know of. >Thanks, Nick

A general overview of camera shopping in HK, which also lists some of the more reputable shops (Nikon Dealers too) and recent comparative pricing can be found at http://www.bubbachan.com/shophk.htm .
Robert

From: Doug Rollins nomath@primenet.com
Subject: Re: Duh, What does 'gray market' mean???
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998
Robert,
'Gray market' usually refers to products imported from a country other than the one in which you're reading the ad (in my case, the US). These products may be imported from anywhere: the country of manufacture, other Asian countries, or wherever. Usually (but not always), gray market hardware carries the International warranty, or only the warranty of the importer. Thus, in the US if you purchase gray market and require warranty service (assuming the manufacturer will service the product at all), it must be returned to the country of manufacture for service.
'Data back' is a generic term used to describe any accessory (replacement) camera back which is able to record information on the negative/slide. Most databacks record user-selectable date/time information, but some offer alpahnumeric information or exposure data. Usually the data intrudes on the image (some will record data on the space between frames - this is the exception).
Hope this helps,
doug
Robert Gray wrote:
> While reading through the camera newsgroups I see the term 'gray > market' used quite often. I have never heard the term (in Canada). > Also what does 'data back' mean? > Please excuse my ignorance. Thanks

From: "skgrimes" skgrimes@ma.ultranet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: Duh, What does 'gray market' mean???
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998
"Greymarket" is the practice of importing goods privately outside the agreement between the manufacturer and the manufacturer's contracted importer. It is common and legal for a manufacturer to enter into an exclusive arrangement with a representative in a given country. Such as Rodenstock sells its photo lenses in the USA only thru H.P. marketing. (Or, General motors only sells Chevrolets to its authorized Chevrolet dealers)
It is sometimes possible to travel to another country, purchase product (even at retail, but more often through pals and associates,) bring it back to the U.S. and be able to sell it below the authorized importers price and still make a profit. Skip the travel, do it by phone and you're in the import business.
The "authorization" derives from the manufacturer and does not imply any particular approval of any government regulatory body since, under our system of free enterprise anyone can buy and sell as they please.
Naturally, since the contracted ("authorized") importer is cut out of his profit in a greymarket arrangement he can be pretty ornery when called upon to provide any support service. In cases where product safety laws apply (such as automobiles) the authorized importer can make life really difficult for the owners of a "gray" imported product.
So, its not like an illegal "black" market, its in a "gray" area.
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998
From: Al nissar@IDT.NET
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: response to illegal to buy outside USA
(1) If it was illegal to bring goods in from foreign countries without the USA distributors permission all the photo dealers would be in jail and we would be mailing our film orders to san quentin.
(2) Don't scare people unecessarily that just because their intelligent and don't pay a 40% ultra markup on lenses that they are going against the word of god.
(3) Any intelligent person who has the knowledge that they can save 40% instead of having a USA warranty and doesn't do it is either rich or nuts.
(4) A hasselblad is warrantied for 1 yr. (I believe) Now you save 40% or have a warranty. Unless your camera has no working parts in it and you like to play basketball with it, I doubt your costs will come even close to 1500 unless you send it to hasselblad for repair :) hehe.
(5) Your paying for the Hassy name in the USA market, your even paying for it in the foreign markets, but some foreign markets aren't as afluent thus the manufacturer is commanded to lower its price. "Lower their demand and they will come...." <----a bad adaptation from a movie, but you get the idea
(6) All you have to do is pay for the camera, and the duty and the shipping and you are in total legal clarity. If you feel so bad about saving money, donate it to a charity other than Hasselblads Poor Board of Directors. :-)
al

Editor's Note: Possible USA import restrictions regarding Metz/Bogen trademarked flashes etc..
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998
From: "Stuart A. Pearl" sapearl@mindspring.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Cc: sapearl@mindspring.com
Subject: RE: Grey Market Mail Order Surprises/Import Duties, etc.
I've rec'd a number of sympathetic emails from fellow subscribers who seemed just as aggravated as I was about my bad luck with the "grey market". Thank you. Is it a good idea to buy things this way or to try to import cameras yourself? I honestly don't know, although for myself it didn't work the one time I tried it, and didn't even know I was trying it; the mail order store insisted the unit had the full U.S. warranty and all the paper work was in order. Other folks on this list have had better luck. Judge for yourself.
Some of the questions you raised prompted me to do a bit more digging into my records. Turns out I purchased my "grey market" Metz 45CT-5 flash way back in July, 1982 from FOCUS CAMERA of New York City. I do not know if they are still in business and really do not care at this point. Obviously that was a long time ago and the economic climate was different than what we currently enjoy. As I mentioned earlier the Metz was several years out of warranty and suffered a breakdown due to normal wear and tear. Via my local camera store (honest, helpful people) I shipped the unit to Bogen/Metz for repairs, fully expecting to pay fair and reasonable out of warranty charges. You know the results from my earlier post.
Interestingly enough, I tried again in 1997 to have the flash repaired using a DIFFERENT local camera store. Again, this particular store lacked the parts and had to contact Bogen. And yet again, Bogen responded with the exact same - albeit even more xeroxed - form letter.
Following is a copy of the first form letter I rec'd from Bogen in July, 1988. The text is exactly the same as the second letter I rec'd from Bogen in November of 1997. They addressed it to the camera store I used to send the unit, although that local store is not the place where I bought the strobe.
"Dear Laurel Camera,
Please refer to your request for service on Metz Electronic flash, Model 45CT-5, serial #xxxxxx. According to our records, the serial number of the unit is not that of one which we imported. We have to assume therefore, that if this merchandise was imported after December 31, 1980 it was imported improperly.
We are the owners of the Metz Trademark and importation by others of any equipment bearing the trademark is prohibited by U.S. Customs regulations.
We suggest therefore that you take the matter up with your dealer and ask them to furnish you with the original Bogen warranty card which we pack with every Metz Flash Unit we import. If they cannot do this we suggest you demand that they replace the unit you purchased with one which has been legally imported and which is accompanied by our warranty. If you do not get satisfaction we suggest you approach either the credit card company you may have used to effect the purchase or contact the Better Business Bureau in the city where purchased.
We are sorry to inconvenience you, but we have not other alternative at this time. You may be aware of the fact that some imported items are being sold through what are euphemistically termed 'grey market' channels. That is, by importers and dealers who bypass the normal channels and who conceal from their customers the fact that we will not service what we do not distribute.
Yours Truly,
BOGEN PHOTO CORP."
For those of you far more familiar with customs regulations and the law than I, was I being hosed? "Gee, this letter sure looks official, so it must be so." Again, big corporate importer mystique/smokescreen. What is the significance of December 31, 1980 anyway? At least they said they were sorry (yeah, right). The biggest yuck was that they used the same crappy xerox form letter from 9 years prior.
Today I will take the unit to a third place, which just happens to be my Hassy/Mamiya repair guy. I told him the whole story up front just so he'd know what he was getting into. He thought what happened was a load of crap too and would try to help me out.
- Stu sapearl@mindspring.com

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998
From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Metz hassles
you wrote:

>Today I will take the unit to a third place, which just happens to >be my Hassy/Mamiya repair guy. I told him the whole story up front just >so he'd know what he was getting into. He thought what happened was a >load of crap too and would try to help me out. > >- Stu sapearl@mindspring.com

Call Bogen/Metz and ream them out. Tell them you bought the falsh from an exchange student who ran out of money, and you don't know where the student was from, bought the flash or whatever. Have them fix it.
I too have some Non-USA gear, and it has always been repaired when necessary. I even bring gear here to the US from friends overseas to have it fixed, and it hasn't been a problem. FWIW, I've never had a Metz fixed. When mine breaks, I'll probably toss it in the dinosaur museum.
--pat.

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998
From: "Thomas L. Clark" tomclark@sprynet.com
Subject: Re: Trademarks, possible solution RE: Grey Market
I have ordered repair parts for my Mamiya camera(s) from Mamiya USA and was NEVER asked to give any kind of serial numbers or warranty card information.
Granted my stuff was old RB67 vintage equipment so mayby they were already past caring about it.
Furthermore, it seems to me that a shrewd independent repairman would keep a list of known white-market serial numbers and would simply refer to one of those when he needed to order parts for some questionable item. (Unless he was worried about being raided by the serial number police!)
Tom Clark
[Editor's Note: as stated above, parts for repairs must be made available in the U.S.A. for at least a specified period of time after last U.S.A. sales of given model (usually 5 to 7 years) per Federal Trade Commission Regs...]

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998
From: Peter Klosky PKlosky@bdm.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Trademarks, possible solution RE: Grey Market -Reply

> an outstanding example of corp. stupidity. > Knowing this, I would never buy another Metz strobe.

I agree with you, completely. While I, and others, have paid high prices for Hasselblad USA repair, at least it is highly available. Independent repair people have been able to find Hasselblad parts, too. I'm sure it helps the Hasselblad used and new market for people to know service and parts are available.
Importers of flash units are some of the worst when it comes to parts, based on not only the recent Metz reports, but also my own experience with the Sunpack importer. What the Sunpack importer hits you with is a minimum $500 order. While B&H; New York was a fine workaround in this case, and was able to provide the part I needed, it would have been nice for the importer to give me some other response than "go away."
Just spoke with Doris at Gil Ghitelman's Camera Sales/Service NYC. She reports they rebuilt my 500C and 12 back. I had a light leak around the back hooks, and they have fixed the body by some sort of shimming that bring the body closer to the back. They had wanted to see my 12 back, my A24 and my NPC Polaroid, to be sure to locate any trouble. They commented that a rough job of removing an NPC back can bend the hooks, btw. According to their report, charges are as follows:
rebuild 500C body, fix light leak, replace spring - $120 labor, $20 parts
rebuild 12 back, gummed up, new seals - $80 labor, $8.8 parts
shipped UPS 2nd day air(not my choice, btw) within 1 week of receipt.
They advised me to shoot a test roll. I had already planned on it. I'll be sure to let the list know how effective the repair was and if UPS can manage an intact, prompt delivery.
Peter Klosky
p.s. I could sign my posting "bobm," but since we have multiple people named "bobm" on the list, it might cause some confusion.

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998
From: Bob_Maxey@mtn.3com.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Camera Repair Parts -Reply -Forwarded

What is the source of this fact? Who requires an importer or manufacturer to supply parts? Are you talking about some federal, state or local law here, or just good manners? What right to make policies does a firm have in doing business?

Well, my dad went through this with a manufacturer of Telephone equipment, and I have gone through it with suppliers of computer parts. The situation with my dad resulted in being told by our legal people that upon request, we must supply parts. It started with a customer who did not want to pay for a microprocessor and tried to buy it separately, and that is where the trouble began. I also worked for a photographic firm and we wanted to service our PAKO Ferrotyping dryer, but needed a parts list and repair manual. We bought it, but it was about $150.00.
One understandable reason for a reluctance to selling parts to the average person is that they end up screwing things up more if they try to do the repair on their own. I have in the past refused to do warranty repairs on equipment the customer took a part. fortunately, putting together a piece of equipment from bits and pieces and damage caused by the customer would result in a repair bill that is far higher than replacement of the equipment.
RM

Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998
From: "Stuart A. Pearl" sapearl@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Trademarks, possible solution RE: Grey Market
Earlier, Thomas L. Clark wrote:

> > I have ordered repair parts for my Mamiya camera(s) from Mamiya USA and was > NEVER asked to give any kind of serial numbers or warranty card > information.

At the time that I couldn't get my Metz repaired (originally 1988), I went out and bought another one, same model (liked the functionality, ease of use, convenience) from a local camera store. It was about $50 more than mail order, but hey, looked what happened the last time. And besides at this point, I was building a working relationship with some of the local stores. The local guy assured me the unit was pedigreed with all papers in order.
A year ago the ratchetted tilt head on the Metz wore out due to my usual wear tear. I took it back to another local camera store, and they sent it to Metz. Everything went fine this time; no serial number problems, questions, etc.

> > Granted my stuff was old RB67 vintage equipment so mayby they were already > past caring about it. > > Furthermore, it seems to me that a shrewd independent repairman would keep > a list of known white-market serial numbers and would simply refer to one > of those when he needed to order parts for some questionable item. (Unless > he was worried about being raided by the serial number police!)

Funny you should bring this up 8-) 8-). I took the grey market Metz to the local Hassy/Mamiya repair guys. They made an instant diagnois (busted detent stop on f-stop dial) which matched what I knew and said they'd be happy to order parts for me. "We have quite a good relationship with the Metz folks and should have no problem getting the proper items. Total repairs will be under $100. I'm sure they'll have no trouble with our serial numbers," he said with a grin. Not bad to get a spare unit back in service.
I've purchased a number of consumer grade items vial mail order without difficulty and have saved money in the process over local stores. I've never ordered outside of the country though. It is very tempting to do so with the "large savings (?)" that people have been quoting.
The other side of the coin though is the level of service that you can cultivate with local merchants. And when you're doing pro work, that type of service can be a critical life saver in a pinch situation. One local place says that if you buy one of their 'blads (at the typical high price), if anything goes wrong with it, they will give you an instant loner while yours is being repaired. Not too shabby if you're down a spare.
Other merchants are always on the lookout for me for certain "stuff". I've told them to hang onto certain items that may come into the store. Yesterday I stopped into the place that sold me my 500C/M and the owner produced a late model lens hood for the 60mm CF which I believe lists for $80 or $90. I realize this is no big ticket item, but it is something I needed, and I didn't want to pay list price. He gave it to me for $25 8-) 8-). Now, he knows I'll be back because I've given him a "shopping list" and his store is always on the look out for used stuff. He also sees me regularly a couple of times a week.
It's extremely hard to resist saving $1,500 on a lens; and I might even try it if I had the connections and knew I wasn't going to get ripped off. However, I greatly value a high level of service that I get from some of the local merchants - repair shop, retail store, film store, processing lab, etc.) I may pay a bit of a premium sometimes for this, but you never know when that really BIG EMERGENCY may hit and you need help right away from the guy down the block.
- Stu sapearl@mindspring.com

Hong Kong Buying Tips
From Nikon Digest:
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998
From: "Mike Ingram" mingram@wt.net
Subject: Re: Reputable Nikon Photo shops in Hong Kong
In Response To:

>Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 >From: "Nicholas S. Rubenstein" leornak@bayside.net >Subject:: Reputable Nikon Photo shops in Hong Kong > >I will be travelling to HK to visit relatives soon, and I was wondering >whether anyone could tell me what reputable photo shops they know of.

Nicholas,
I have been in Hong Kong several times over the last few months. A couple of days ago (7-29) I bought an F5 from a dealer there. This purchase was made after several days of shopping in Hong Kong and Singapore.
I know you only asked about Hong Kong but I have to mention that the Singapore dealers I've negotiated with couldn't compete with Hong Kong prices.
While in Hong Kong, I visited about 10 shops while looking for an F5. Every one of them quoted a competitive price for the camera. The real questions were: warranty, new Vs. demo, English manual Vs. foreign language, etc.
I'd recommend the following:
New Sankyo Camera Co., LTD.
G-19 Golden-Mile Holiday Inn
50 Nathan Road
Kowloon, Hong Kong
Tel: (852) 2367-0350, 2369-9491
EMail: newsanky@hkstar.com
This dealer doesn't have much of a store front and doesn't have much street appeal. I think he is a distributor to the other stores. I'd recommend shopping all the other stores first and getting the best price then going to the above dealer.
I liked this dealer because he was not as much a hustler as the other ones, had what I wanted in stock and didn't fool around delivering (handing) it to me.
I bought the F5 for HK$12,707. In US$ that's about $1645.
Things to look out for while shopping in Hong Kong: Be careful about buying anything extra. The dealers will quote you a low price on the camera and zap you on the accessories. If you intend to buy accessories, have a competitive price in mind before you start negotiating. Also, don't let them bundle a deal for you. I mean adding the accessories before you've finished dealing for the camera. The dealing can get pretty fast and furious, which leads to confusion on your part, not theirs! That will cost you.
Make sure you know which warranty you are getting. You may get no warranty at all. I got an very low quote on the F5 and was excited until I found out that the warranty didn't extend past the store's door on the day I bought it!
Get a NEW camera in a NEW box. Otherwise you may get a camera that's been demo'd for months at no discount!
In short, assume nothing and check everything, and you will probably be satisfied.
Good luck,
Mike
mingram@wt.net
BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with the reply (previously posted) by R. Biddle:
A general overview of camera shopping in HK, which also lists some of the more reputable shops (Nikon Dealers too) and recent comparative pricing can be found at http://www.bubbachan.com/shophk.htm .

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998
From: Alec Wood and/or Phillippa Acton ncc1701a@chevalier.net
Subject: Hong Kong Photo stores
TO every one who emailed me for more info on the shop I use the address is as follows:
Photo Scientific Appliances Ltd.
Ground Floor
6 Stanley Street
Central
Hong Kong
Tel: ++ (852) 2522 0871
I do not know if they export to the US.
Regs
Alec

Save 65% on 6x7 Slide Projector from Japan
From: zhou ling lingzhou@eesn3.ews.uiuc.edu
[1] Re: Q: How to Mount 6X7 transparencies?
Date: Thu Aug 06 1998
Mamiya ProCabin 6x7 slide projector sells only $400 in Japan brand new vs. 1200+ here in B&H.;
baldycotton@mindspring.com wrote:

> norquist@pobox.com (Peter Norquist) said, > > >'Nother question. What's needed to mount my 6X7 transparencies, a scissors > >and some mounts? ;-) > > Basically, yeah. Call B&H; 1-800-947-6650. You should be able to get glass > mounts or plastic frame mounts. Get a second job to pay for a projector, > however. Them suckers start at over a grand. Used ones are as hard to find as > chicken teeth. > Dave >

From: bigboote@yps.com (John Bigboote)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: Duh, What does 'gray market' mean???
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998

> cy549@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Robert Gray) wrote: > > > > While reading through the camera newsgroups I see the term 'gray > > market' used quite often. I have never heard the term (in Canada). > > Also what does 'data back' mean? > > Please excuse my ignorance. Thanks > > -- > > Gray market is a product that is being sold by someone or company, that is not > officially out yet, or not available in a given country. When you buy a gray > market product make sure you check the validity of the warranty.

Close, but there's more. Gray market generally means the product has not been imported and distributed by the corporation's official distributor or subsidiary, i.e. a gray-market Nikkor lens was not imported by Nikon USA, and will not be warranted by Nikon USA. Other warranties may apply, either from the manufacturer (in the case of international warranties) or by the reseller (e.g. B&H;, who will do their own repairs during the warranty period). In either event, you or your LCS will have to ship the item to a service location to get a warranty repair. A gray-market product should be functionally identical to its legitimate counterpart, e.g. the Nikon F90x is functionally the same at the N90s, or gray-market film that's the same as a different-labeled version of the same emulsion--the only difference is the distribution channel. Gray-market products are generally cheaper, because they avoid the overhead and mark-up associated with supporting a distribution channel. Note that some resellers may not have paid duty on imports (i.e., they were smuggled in or misrepresented to customs); these are illegal imports and therefore fall into the "black market" category. I was once stopped at customs in the US with a bunch of legitimate Nikon equipment, but they reacted to my Hassy, because apparently so many were sold by NY resellers without proper duty having been paid.
HTH,
-john

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998
From: Stephen Robb stephen@orion.co.nz
Subject: Buying in Hong Kong
I recently bought a new F90X in Hong Kong from the Mongkok Camera Centre (can't remember the exact price but around $HK5200). Also a second-hand 35-70f2.8 for arounf $HK2800 from a second hand place (can get the address if you like) with a HUGE selection of lenses etc. I now wish I'd bought a brand new 80-200 f2.8 from there too for $HK5900 or so.
There is one thing to be careful of (other than paying for product before you see it!). When getting prices, I's ask for a body price and then prices for different lenses. When I decided to get the body only from one place they wanted more for the body because I wasn't buying a lens (they said they made more margin on lenses and body price was based on buying lens also). Needless to say I didn't buy from them.
Good luck... and don't even waste your time going into the shops in Tsim Shat Shui (sp?)!
Regards,
Stephen
Stephen Robb
Orion Systems (NZ) Ltd, Phone: +64-9-357 6323 x3304,
St John Bldg, 1 Beresford St, Fax: +64-9-357 6324
PO Box 8273, Mobile: +64-21-682 911
Auckland, New Zealand WWW: http://www.orion.co.nz/stephen

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998
From: Matthew Endo matt@drapp.com
Subject: Re: 20-35 decision

>I have been following the many threads over the last few weeks (months?) >regarding the Nikon 20-35 vs? with great interest. I too have been >agonizing over deciding if spending over $1600 (USD) on this great piece >of glass was a wise investment.

If you come to Japan you can pick it up for 169,400 yen which at 145/$ is about $1170.

>To start, I already had an N70, 35-70/2.8D, 80-200/2.8D (two touch) and >SB-28. I wanted to get the wide end covered, but also want to do >outdoor macro work. My initial thought was to get the 20-35/2.8D and >the 105/2.8D micro. This would cost over $2200 (USD) to accomplish. >What I actually decided to do (drumroll please) was to get the 20/2.8D, >24/2.8D and the 105/2.8D micro.

20mm 51,900
24mm 33,500
105 Micro 62,000
Total 147,400 = $1,016
Or total for 20-35 zoom + 105 Micro = 231,400 which is about $1595.
Personally, I think your decision to go with primes was a good one. There are times that I wish I should have bought primes instead of a zoom. With my Brand C A-1, I use primes. They make me focus mentally on what I am doing and how I am going to achieve it. Then I remember why I bought an AF zoom with my Nikon F90x. Laziness and convenience... but someday I will buy 20mm, 50mm primes.
Cheers,
Matt

[Ed. note: volatility of the Yen vs. U.S. Dollar makes prices highly variable..]
From: kenneth kenneth@hkusua.hku.hk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Canon Prices in Hong Kong
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998
For the L lens, the price is about $8500 to $9500. You can get the 50/1.4 at about $2500 and the 50/1.8 II at $650 (all prices in HK$)
In case you really want to buy all of the listed lens, I would suggest that you better make a stop at Tokyo on you flight back to US (I guess you're from the States from your email address).
The marked price in Tokyo is already lower than that in HK.
Together with the point system which allow you to get 8% to 12% of the purchase as points and use the points as money (1 point = 1 yen) towards your next pruchase, you can simply get your filters (such as UV, Cir-Polarizer) free. Of course, you can use the points to buy any other products, such as walkman, Discman and MD.
Under the current exchange rate of US$ to Yen, the cost of a Canon lens in Tokyo is about 3/4 to 4/5 of that in HK.

From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Grey Market versus USA Warranty
Date: 7 Aug 1998
Now I'm confused. Is the US Warranty the grey market item or is the international warranty the grey market item? I thought that I would be happy with a US warranty.
Actually international warranty is something of a misnomer. Generally "USA warranty" refers to the manufacturer's warranty. IN the case of a Canon item, it would mean the item was brought into the country and sold to a retailer by Canon USA, who warrants the item in the USA. Canon dealers and authorized warranty facilities in other countries would reciprocally honour this product's warranty.
The other option, often erroneously called international warranty is "grey market," and refers to an item brought into this country by some source or agency other than the officially licensed importer. The item never passes through the hands of (in this example) Canon USA, they never make any profit from the transaction, and don't therefore have any legal obligation to extend warranty coverage.
In most cases, ethical retailers will extend their own warranty coverage.
Now, one caveat: we have heard anecdotal evidence in this newsgroup that Canon USA will honour the warranty of a "grey market" item if the owner can document the date of purchase. They don't have to but that's the stories we read here.
Hope this helps.
See http://www.bhphotovideo.com/greymkt.html
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
henryp@bhphotovideo.com

Visit Nepal and Save Big
From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 98
From: "Rai, Rajendra" Rajendra.Rai@bc-nepal.wlink.com.np
Subject: Nikon prices in Nepal
There was some talk on prices of Nikon equipment in Asia in the previous digests. I thought it might be of interest to some of you if I informed you of the prices of Nikon equipment in Nepal. The prices here seem to be some of the lowest around and some of you may wish to consider doing your shopping here. As examples, I list the current prices of some equipment available here:

Nikon F5 body - Nepalese Rs112000 (US$1647) Nikon F90X body - Nepalese Rs41500 (US$610) Nikkor AFD 50mm f1.4 - Nepalese Rs13000 (US$191) Nikkor AFD 35-70mm f2.8 - Nepalese Rs32000 (US$470) Nikkor AFD 28-70mm f3.5-4.5 - Nepalese Rs17000 (US$250) Nikkor AFD 80-200mm f2.8 ED (w tripod collar) - Nep Rs44000 (US$647) Nikon SB28 flash - Nepalese Rs16500 (US$242)

However, accessories like teleconverters, focussing screens, cords, cables, etc, are not readily available. The shops can get them for you from Japan but it takes several weeks.
There are about 12 or 13 shops selling photographic goods on New Road, which is in the centre of Kathmandu. Of these, I would suggest you try Photo Imaging as the shopkeeper knows his stuff and is very patient and frank.
Rajendra

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Fri Sep 04 1998
From: Jana Mullerova jam@terma.com
[2] Re: prices in europe

> Prices of hardware here in England are the same in Pounds, as they are > in Dollars there. We are VERY expensive here.

I am a Czech living in Denmark. Yesterday I bought the Canon EOS 70-200/2.8 USML zoom. The story was:
Back home in Prague, the lens costs about 1400 GBP. Here in Denmark, the lowest price is about 1500 GBP. If ordered from B&H; New York, the percel would be stopped by customers and released only after I pay at least 30% duty plus more duty on shipping. If I make a shopping trip to NY, I'll be caught on return. (No fun with local custom officers.) I don't know how much this lens costs in Britain.
I ordered the lens from a Swedish mail order. The price was about 1200 GBP. As far as I know this was the best possible solution.
Jana

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Only Me..." dgreg@globalnet.co.uk
[2] Re: prices in europe
Date: Fri Sep 04 1998
The best price I can find here in England, is 999GBP.
I hope this helps.
David

[Ed. note: this may apply in general for our Canadian and other readers...]
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: James Robinson NOSPAM@ERIE.NET
[1] Re: Camera import from USA to Canada?
Date: Sat Sep 05 1998
Randeep Bhatia wrote:

> Hi all, > > I am currently in Ottawa, Canada and am looking to buy a good SLR > system. As USA has more shops and mail order companies, I am thinking of > ordering from them. I don't have a credit card and would be paying by > cheque. Would there be a problem in ordering from Canada? Would I have > to pay any additional charges like customs, etc? If yes, the how much > approximately?

Not having a credit card will make things awkward because of the exchange rates, and customs brokerage fees. If you make a mail order purchase by phone, the company will typically ask for your credit card number, then all their charges can be immediately applied in US dollars, with the credit card company taking care of the monetary exchange.
If you want to pay by cheque it will complicate things significantly. Once you negotiate the price, you have to send an appropriate cheque for US dollars, the store would want it to clear to be sure it was good, and the banks have significant charges for clearing international cheques.
A less expensive, and faster way would be to use a US dollar money order, which you can purchase from a bank or the post office for a couple of dollars. (cost depends on the value of the money order.) The store would ship your order immediately, and there would be no additional bank charges to clear the check.
The next problem will arise when the package is cleared through customs. You will have to pay GST at least on the value of the purchase, though there is likely no duty on camera equipment. Here's how Customs will typically work if you ship by UPS, for example: If you select the premium air service, the package will be cleared in Hamilton, Ontario. The UPS Customs broker will telephone you and request a credit card number for the GST and any applicable duties. (I don't know what their procedure is if you want to use a check.) After you fork over your number, UPS will handle the customs brokerage and deliver the package to your door about a day later. When shipping by air, the brokerage fee is included in the price of the shipment, so there is no extra charge for that service. If you order a camera on a Monday, you should get the package on Thursday or Friday.
If you ship by UPS ground, the package will be cleared in Ottawa, but UPS will charge a brokerage fee in addition to the shipment price. Again, you will need to pay the GST and brokerage fee before they will release the package to you. You would receive the package in a little over a week from when you order it. I suggest using the air express option, as the cost is similar after the brokerage fees are taken into account, and you get your package sooner.
You can call Canada Customs in Ottawa to confirm what the duties might be (if any) on the specific items you are interested in. When you make the call it is a good idea to get the tariff numbers from whomever you talk to in case there is a problem later. Sometimes the Customs officer clearing the goods will take the easy way and apply a standard duty rate which may be higher than the actual rate, and you may need to reclaim directly from Customs by submitting a refund request.

[Ed. note: and another approach and view... ;-)]
rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "David Foy" nomail@this_address.please
[1] Re: Camera import from USA to Canada?
Date: Sat Sep 05 1998

Despite advice given by another person responding to this question, I unhesitatingly recommend you pay by bank money order (in $US) and have your seller ship via air mail small packet, insured for the full amount. You'll wait about 7-10 days. The parcel will be delivered to your door and you'll pay 7% GST, plus a $5 documentation charge. And the cost of shipping will be low.
If you choose a courier like FedEx or UPS, you'll pay a customs brokerage fee. UPS will ding you $30 minimum. FedEx, I don't know about, but it will surely be more than $5.

Buying Film for 50-70% Savings
From: "collin chan" fotobug@letterbox.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
Subject: Re: Where to Buy Film at Best Price?
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998
If you stop by Singapore, you can get pretty cheap film. Just to give you an indication:
fuji superia 200 US$2.40
kodak gold 400 US$2.70
konica 400 US$2.50

[Ed. note: to counteract grey market, Nikon USA has extended its warranty..]

From: "Joe G." jgallant@bigfoot.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Gray Market Repair w/ B&H;
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998
The 5 year warranty is very new, just since the rebate program ended. Nikon USA instituted this new extended warranty for the express purpose of competing with the grey market (which makes money for Nikon but not for Nikon USA).
Joe

From: johnchap@erols.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Gray Market Repair w/ B&H;
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998
At least up until recently, B&H; offered a 7 year (I believe, or maybe it was 5 year) extended warranty at an incredibly cheap price. It was something like $30 for my Nikon 80-200/2.8. I have no reason to believe they no longer offer the extended warranty. Talk to a salesman.

From: rt4n-mekw@asahi-net.or.jp (N.Maekawa)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: F5 Prices in Japan
Date: 29 Aug 1998

>To anyone reading this in Japan: > >I am wondering what the price is (in yen) for an F5 these days. Also, what >about the new Pentax autofocus 645? I'll be coming to Japan later this year >and am thinking about making a purchase. > >I appreciate your response.

Suggested price for Nikon F5 body is 325,000 Yen and street price is around 240,000 - 275,000 Yen.
For 645N, suggested price is 300,000 Yen and street price is around 260,000 - 270,000 Yen.
N.Maekawa
Japan
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/japan/manual-camera/index_e.htm

From: kt0911@aol.com (KT0911)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Mail Order, Japan
Date: 31 Aug 1998
There are mail order houses in Japan and you can check general price ranges through their sites.
http://www.sanpou.co.jp/SA/TM.cgi?config=prca.dat
http://www.mapgroup.com/
However, they are not allowed to export their merchandise, otherwise they will lose their franchise to sell equipment. If you know anybody in Japan, that somebody could buy from them and ship it to you.
I do not know any outfit who would be selling directly to overseas customers. If there should be any, they are certainly not visible.
Ken

From: James Mitchell jmitchell@cls.uob.com.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cathay Photo in Singapore
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998
Shirley,
I have bought a number of lenses from Cathay over the past 6 years and have found them to be reliable. This is of course buying in person. I am quite sure they are reliable for foreign dealings as well. As for import duties I am not too sure about the States, but more than likely you'll have to pay duty if the items are valued over a certain threshold. Your best bet is to find somebody who is passing through Singapore to pick it up for you. Anyway, are you sure you'll save much money ordering from Singapore? I would hazard a guess that you may pick up a better deal in the States.
As an example, I was quoted SGD$3,200 for an EF 35-350 3.5-.5.6L lens. The exchange rate for the US dollar today is 1.73 Singapore dollars, making this lens around USD$1,850 (then you have to add courier costs + insurance etc). I don't know the prices over there, how does this compare?
I was in Cathay last Sunday, and all prices have gone up quite a bit - they blame it on the strong US dollar - which of course is not a concern for you :-).
As for computer equipment (PC's not peripherals), I found it cheaper in the US.
Hope this helps
James
Shirley Curtis wrote:

> With the downward spiral of the Asian currencies, this company has offered > some very attractive prices on camera lenses. Has anyone had any dealings > with them? Do you know if there are import duties on what they send to the > states? Are they reliable, etc.? > > Any other suggestions for direct mail order companies from the Pacific Rim > via web sites? Any experiences (good or bad) in ordering from an overseas > company? I am interested in camera AND computer equipment. > > Thanks. > > S.C.

From: jtay@eudoramail.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cathay Photo in Singapore
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998
Shirley,
I've bought new equipment from Cathay before, and so far I've had good experiences, general product knowledge is good amongst their staff, and they have been around for some time, they're reliable. Check out their page at http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg
They have a link in there that allows you to request for quotations. Of course, check out about international warranties for what you intend to buy. I've no info about duties and such (being a local)
Jeff.

From: "collin" fotobug@letterbox.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cathay Photo in Singapore
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998
Cathay offers good product range like what the others have said. They sometimes give discounted prices for quotes over the internet like i have experienced. My over the counter quote would have cost a couple bucks more. All their sales people know their products very well. Tourist shops are the worst to purchase from.
Do a price comparison. Earlier this yr , i purchased a F5 body nikon for US$1820 ex rate of S$1.73-US$1 as quoted by James. How much is it over in your area?
If you are ever in town, i know of some shops that give very competitive prices.
Cheers,
collin

From: kahheng.nospam@pacific.net.sg (kahheng.nospam@pacific.net.sg)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cathay Photo in Singapore
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998
I can only speak about the quality of the store since I actually live here and therefore can't tell u anything about US tax issues..........
Cathay Photo store is a very very well known camera store in Singapore. They are extremely professional in their dealings and are particularly well known for their excellent service. I have used them for ages. They are honest people.
You might also want to check to see if there are HK companies willing to do mail order business. Grey market eqpt are really very well priced in HK - as much as 20-30% off the retail prices.
FWIW, Mamiya prices here are way lower than in the US. And in HK, the grey market Mamiyas are even better priced. An acquaintance who went there recently picked up an RZ67II, 2 backs, 3 lenses (RZ110,180, can't remember the third) for S$6500, about US$3720. Note that these are all NEW. Just 'grey'.
If you want to find out more from HongKong photo buffs, point your newsbrowser to the "news.starzine.com" newserver and ask at the photo forum there - its an open server. That or ask around at hk.rec.photo if your ISP's newserver carries it (or use Dejanews).
Asian retailers are still very much not online.

From: Wesley Loh webmaster@memphiswest.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Cathay Photo in Singapore
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998

> Mamiyas are even better priced. An acquaintance who went there recently picked up > an RZ67II, 2 backs, 3 lenses (RZ110,180, can't remember the third) for S$6500, > about US$3720. Note that these are all NEW. Just 'grey'.

Plus one more polaroid back I believe. ;-)
I picked up the same equipment in Feb with the third lens being a 50mm.
Fantastic offer.
best,
wes

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998
From: Geert Van de Wiele Geert.VandeWiele@rug.ac.be
Subject: Nikon prices in Nepal
I can confirm what the previous poster said. I bought two items there last year and indeed, prices where about 1/2 - 2/3 of prices in Europe.
It must be noted that all these items, however new in the box, come WITHOUT a warranty!
I bought an FM-2 and an 85 mm F1.8 AF-D there, but i would not buy a cheaper electronic camera that is probably more vulnerable to failure.
Geert

B+W filters - Cheaper in Germany
From Medium Format Digest:
From: Tony Harrison AnthonyHar@aol.com
Subject: Response to Filters and Step-Up Rings
Date: 1998-09-04
I think most of us semi-pros and keen amateurs (and not a few pros)tend to use step-up rings sometimes, especially given the condiderable cost of good filters. What really prompts my contribution is Robin Smith's unusual suggestion that Hoya are the "prime" filters in the UK, and that B+W are not only less well thought of here, but cheaper too! Hoya have a dominant position, and they're pretty good, but B+W are less prominent purely because they are extremely expensive. I think they're the best - and our other MFD correspondent should know that B+W too use Schott glass, Schott being part of the Carl Zeiss group, which is why Hassy filters are made of Schott glass...
Photographers in both the US and UK should know they're being ripped off, though, since B+W filters are considerably cheaper in Germany, which is where I buy mine. In fact, I get them at a price which beats the UK prices of Hoya, just from a regular pro dealer with branches in major German cities. B+W filters are the best I've used, bar none.

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998
From: Wolfgang.Weber@dvg.de
Subject: Nikon prices in Germany
Hello,
to get an overview, look at www.wfv.de, it's the page of the "WFCrzburger Fotoversand", a mail-order company located in WFCrzburg. In the shops, the price level is app. 5 to 10% higher (for a F70 you will pay 900 to 1000 DEM). The WFV offers 2 years warranty instead of 1 year. I don't know if you can get products directly if you visit the company in WFCrzburg. And consider that you can get tax refund because you're not from an EU-country.
Sincerely
Wolfgang

rec.photo.marketplace
From: "Bill Ferris" billferris@worldnet.att.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
[1] Re: Any experiece buying overseas?
Date: Sun Sep 13 1998
the first $400 per person is free. Then the next $1000 is taxed at a flat 10%. Over that amount it depends on what you buy and how the custom collector decides to assess the tax. Camera equipment--new--can be taxed at up to 35%.
Buy the equipment overseas and use it for two weeks then bring it back used. Customs rate on used is lower. Thats what car buyers do by going to the German factories. Drive for two weeks and bring back used. The reduced rate pays for the two week trip.
Bill

USA 35mm SLR Customs Duties = 1/2%
rec.photo.marketplace
From: johnchap@erols.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
[1] Re: Any experiece buying overseas?
Date: Sun Sep 13 1998
Photo equipment is apparently handled differently than some other goods.
Early this year I was told by US Customs that the duty on a 35mm SLR would be 1/2%. This seemed low, and hardly worth collecting, which the Customs agent admitted. I did not ask about lenses.
You might want to telephone US Customs and verify this information, or get a more accurate figure. The amount of duty might depend on the source country. Incidently, although it is undboubtedly easy to bring equipment into this country without declaring it, it is simply not worth the risk.

From: Naomi and David Duffy fiddlydi@po.synapse.or.jp
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Canon Prices Overseas
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998
Sampou Camera (http://www.sanpou.co.jp/main.html -- its in Japanese only) has it for Y89,000. Sampou has the cheapest prices I've seen in Japan but I have never been to their shop in Tokyo nor ordered from them yet (next week I plan on ordering a Nikon F90x body from them).
David

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Canon Prices Overseas
From: matt@gol.com (Matthew J. Endo)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998

> Sampou Camera (http://www.sanpou.co.jp/main.html -- its in Japanese > only) has it for Y89,000. Sampou has the cheapest prices I've seen in > Japan but I have never been to their shop in Tokyo nor ordered from them > yet (next week I plan on ordering a Nikon F90x body from them).

Judging from your address, you are in Japan; therefore, you can order cameras to be shipped to an address within Japan.
For other readers of r.p.e.35mm residing in other countries, they should be aware that most camera shops cannot ship goods outside of Japan; otherwise they would be competing with Nikon USA, Nikon UK, etc.
FWIW, the 90x body is cheaper if you consider buying at Yodobashi or Bic Camera and getting the point card; essentially a rebate that you can use on later purchases. At this time, Bic is the best, because in my experience, they have the lowest prices and the best rebate at 12%.
BTW, I recommend buying the F90xs with the MF-26 databack rather than the 90x; it will help for getting the exposure info, bracketing, etc. I have the 90x and wish I had the 90xs. Or, you could buy the 90x, and I'll swap you backs and give you the difference in cash.
If you need more info, send me e-mail.
--
Matt
matt@gol.com

rec.photo.marketplace
From: "Kent Gunnufson" gunnufson@email.msn.com
[1] Re: Any experiece buying overseas?
Date: Fri Sep 18 1998

A long time ago, I bought mail order through Hong Kong. They would declare contents and your local port of entry would have you pay duty. At that time I had to scrape off the name Asahi due to copyright.

From: "John Stewart" radiojohn@email.msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Demand for TLR's - New Seagulls
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998
The camera is available in the US in black for $139. One interesting point: A US catalog store ("Porter's") claimed to be directly importing a $75 Rolleicord copy that was all in Chinese. One translation was "Great Central."
This camera was like the cheaper Seagull with knob wind and dual format, but had speeds to 1/500th!
John
Dr.-Ing. A. Irmer wrote

>Went this morning to a local photoshop somewhere in Germany and saw > new Seagull TLR cameras. > >It is called "BIG Twin 3", lens is "Tessalith" (whatever this means, > maybe reminding the buyer on Zeiss Tessar lenses) and the camera > looks really nice. >The shutter is the same of older Seagull 4 with speeds up to > 1/300 s. >Price is 299,00 DM, there is also a "Blue Edition" at 399,00 DM. > >The company improved the quality of the cameras, e. g. > there is a film transport crank (Seagull 4 had a knob). >It looks nice, but I can't tell if the optical quality of the > lens is satisfying. >Maybe I should ask for shooting a roll of film with it ... > >Regards > A. Irmer

[Ed. note: the price difference is startling!]

From: collin@mcd.fm.intel.com
Subject: Re: Any experiece buying overseas?
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998
I found the following quotes in the document:
http://www.customs.treas.gov/travel/travel.htm
"Note: The wearing or use of any article acquired abroad does not exempt it from duty. It must be declared at the price you paid for it."
"Items such as wearing apparel, jewelry, photograph equipment, tape recorders, stereo components, and vehicles are considered personal articles and cannot be passed free of duty as household effects, although the duty rate on them will be assessed on. devalued basis according to age of the item."
I'm sure there is some difference between practice and theory, but this document seems to have all the loopholes closed.
Other experiences appreciated.
Collin

[Ed. note: The Fuji labeled version of the Hasselblad X-PAN could mean big savings for the change of a name and a few minor features - check out local models such as Nikon FM10 and FE10 for big savings too...]
From: "Roger" roger@nationwideisp.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Grey market?
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998
It's nice to see Henry has such an enlightened attitude to grey market imports. Here in the UK, we are subject to a new European Union ruling that grey imports are illegal from outside member states. Too add to this, the manufacturers have been terminating dealers' franchises where they suspect them of handling grey imports.
The EU cares not for competition or consumers but appears to have been pressured by the manufacturers, who have been ripping off British buyers for years. Equipment often costs the same in UK pounds as it does in US $.
I feel better for that quick rant.
Roger

From: "Roger" roger@nationwideisp.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Fuji XPAN price in japan Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:21:47
Amateur Photographer in the UK says it is the equivalent of 650 pounds in Japan. I don't have the pounds-to-yen conversion rate handy but 650 pounds is about US$1100.
The identical Hasselblad X-Pan will probably sell for well over 1000 pounds in the UK. A rip-off or what?
Roger
don ferrario wrote

>I'm not sure what Fuji calls their equivalent of the >Hasselblad XPAN - but does anyone know what the >Fuji camera sells for in the Japanese market? I assume >it would be a lot cheaper without the Hasselblad name >on it! > >don

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998
From: "Ranna M. V." ranna@blr.vsnl.net.in
Subject: F70 and Lens Prices in India
I am planning to buy my first SLR camera. My basic interest in photography is wild life and traveling. I have narrowed down F70 and AF lenses. I live in Bangalore, India and as far as I know there is no official Nikon delaer here. I 've no choice but to buy from the grey market. and I have got the following grey market prices.
F70 QD Rs. 19,500.00 AF-D 28-80, 3.5-5.6 Rs. 16,000.00 AF-D 35-70, 3.5-5.6 Rs. 14,500.00 AF-D 28-200, 3.5-5.6 Rs. 24,000.00 AF-D 24-120, 3.5-4.5 Rs. 16,000.00 AF-D 28-85, 3.5-4.5 Rs. 16,000.00 AF-D 70-210, 3.5-5.6 Rs. 13,600.00 (I hope it is OK to talk about prices on list)
I would like to know if these prices are too high. I will not be getting any warranty, Bill etc. I would like to go for two lenses, Which of the above lenses are best bet in terms of optical quality and build? What other accessories I would need other than tripod and a cable release?
where on net can I find tamron and Sigma AF lens test results?
thank you for your help
- -Ranna

[Ed. note: another past example of trademark protection gone berserk!]
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998
From: tired.of.spam@nospam.com (Rudy Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Gray Market Nikkors-marked differently?

> Are "gray market" Nikkor lenses differently marked in any way from Nikon-USA > imports, other than by serial number? > > thanks- > -Karl.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, it was illegal for individuals to bring new Nikon cameras and lenses into the US. When US customs found the offending equipment they would remove/deface the Nikon (or Nikkor) name from the equipment. Fortunately, this does not happen anymore.
I have an old AI'd Nikkor 300mm f4.5, with the word Nikkor ground off and the whole thing carefully painted black to show for it.
--
Use address below for Email replies. Address on Header is bogus to defeat AutoSPAM.
rudyg@jps.net
Rudy Garcia

From: canon50e@aol.com (Canon50E)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Canon USA vs. Gray Market??
Date: 24 Sep 1998

>A) Is there any *real* difference between gray market and Canon USA? Are the >gray market ones made any different (or any worse?)

Hi, Mary I just ordered the grey market Canon 17-35mm L at B&H;, cause the non grey market version is $1439, while the grey market is $1099.95. That's a huge difference. There is no difference with the product at all, it's just that the grey market version's warrantee is provided by B&H; itself, instead of Canon.
(snip).....
Sincerely,
KY Mak
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3867/index.html

From: canon50e@aol.com (Canon50E)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Canon USA vs. Gray Market??
Date: 24 Sep 1998

>Whew, now I don't feel so bad about buying the USA one from Camera World for >$1269. > >Sean

You'd feel bad if you heard Hong Kong is selling this lens for US $950 :)
Regards,
KY Mak

From: canonshutr@aol.com (CanonShutr)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Gray Market Nikkors-marked differently?
Date: 25 Sep 1998
I spoke with the Nikon Service Reps just last week. Here is what they have to say about Grey Market lenses. They now have a computer base that lists all the officially sold Nikon cameras and lenses in the U.S. If you send them a camera or lense that is not in the data base. THEY WILL NOT REPAIR IT, EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO PAY. So what you have in essence is a great camera, that if you ever drop it, or it fails for some reason, you are stuck going to an independent repair shop. That's fine if you know of a good on. ut expect Nikon to fix in under any circumstances. Good luck,.

From: epa0962@aol.com (Epa0962)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Gray Market Nikkors-marked differently?
Date: 27 Sep 1998
This is actually true. I was talking to a Nikon rep and was informed that anything bought grey market from Nikon eventhough there is no difference from USA products will not be serviced by Nikon in the United States even if you pay them.
It gets really confusing but I am going to give it a shot and try to explain it. According to Nikon, an International Warranty would be honored in the US if you were to buy that Nikon equipment at an authorized dealership that had no access to Nikon USA. Meaning, if I were to buy an F90x at a Nikon Dealer in London, had the appropriate warranty info filled out with proof of purchase at that dealer, I could present it at any Nikon repair center and they would fix it. That includes the USA.
However, if I went to a place in the US that is authorized by Nikon USA and bought grey market from them, Nikon USA would not recognize the international warranty so you would be left to your own devices to get it fixed. Buy it at a camera show used you would not be able to produce, obviously, a bill of original sale that it was bought at a Nikon Authorized dealer abroad.
Who does this protect is really a business entity called Nikon USA. This is not a criticism. When they bring product to the United States, their deals with authorized dealers here is that they make these products available to US consumers and they will back it 100%. However, they will not recognize product obtained any other way since it was not Nikon USA who imported it. It protects their interest since often you see great price variance for a camera or lens that is grey market. If they said they would fix it for a fee, I would imagine that they would be jeopardizing their own interests since most people will then have peace of mind knowing they can take advantage of bonafide Nikon technicians in the off chance they are needed.
I do think that depending upon the situation and the dealer that the consumer can benefit as well. There are some dealers who sell grey market who are extremely reputable (e.g. Adorama, B&H;). They would back a product if something were to go wrong, There are others who are so disreputable that I would guarantee you, you would have no recourse should something go wrong.
I am almost certain that Canada is considered a Nikon USA territory.
I should also state that dropping a lens or camera voids any warranty. So, at that point it would not matter.
I hope this helps.
EPA

From: andyfff@aol.com (AndyFFF)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Mamiya/Toyo in Japan
Date: 26 Sep 1998
Okay, this is a tough question:
I know from having lived in Japan that Mamiya cameras, lenses, etc. cost about 60% of what they do in America. I now live in California, and am considering a Toyo 4x5 purchase. Since Toyo is basically a division of Mamiya, I wonder if Toyo products are less expensive in Japan too. Anyone have a clue? I'll be going to Japan in November, and want to buy when I'm there.
Thanks!

Rubbing it in...
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998
From: "Douglas St.Denny" saint@hkabc.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: vivitar 285 sensor
ARDPHOTO@aol.com wrote:

> I have the same problem. Vivitar will sell you the part, I think it was around > $40. If you are offered more than you need, pass it along. Good luck > Richard > --------------------------------------------------------------------US$40

sounds expensive to me. I can buy the WHOLE flash new here in Hong Kong for not much more than US$50.
regards,
Douglas

From: "Erik Arisholm" erikar@ifi.uio.no
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Buying photographic equipment from Singapore
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998
I've just received a quote for a Mamiya 7 150mm lens from Cathay Photo in Singapore (940USD incl shipping) that is about half the price of the typical US mail-order price. Compared to Norwegian prices, I will save about 1300USD if I buy it from Singapore (including DHL shipping and 23% norwegian taxes)
Great! Or are there any reasons why I still should buy it from B&H;?? (Of course, there are absolutely NO reasons why I should buy it from Norway, except for the occational service which I BTW can get done better/cheaper on my trips to North America).
Erik A.

From: "Erik Arisholm" erikar@ifi.uio.no
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying photographic equipment from Singapore
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998
>Do you have a web address for Cathay Photo ?
http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/

From: "Cary F. Yelin" c.yelin@worldnet.att.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying photographic equipment from Singapore
Date: 1 Oct 1998
Bear in mind that you run the risk of a US Custom's inspection with likely confiscation of the goods since I presume that Mamiya is a registered US trademark. I ran into this experiene a number of years ago when I tried to purchase some Nikon lenses from Hong Kong. I was lucky in that a friend engaged a camera technician to remove the Nikon/Nikkor name from the lenses, otherwise I would have lost everything.

From: Wesley Loh webmaster@memphiswest.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying photographic equipment from Singapore
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998
I have sent a RZ system (3 lens, 1 body, 3 backs) via FedEx to the US and got a random inspection by US customs. Besides the import tax, there isn't much to fear.
best,
wes

From: Wesley Loh webmaster@memphiswest.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying photographic equipment from Singapore
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998
I live in Singapore and have dealt with Cathay Photo over the years. They are honest and trustworthy. Just for your information, Mamiya and Gitzo prices are the best in this region.
best,
wes

From: "Fred Whitlock" afc@cl-sys.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: USA Should look into Gray Market Nikon Warranties?
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998
In their effort to protect their US market from gray market, Nikon won a Supreme Court decision which not only allows them to reject gray market warranty service but actually prevents it. They won't do it and can't do it. They stand behind the products they (Nikon USA) sells not the products other companies sell. No, Nikon USA is not the same thing as Nikon in Japan. Nikon in Japan will honor the warranty on any Nikon product regardless of distribution channel. Good shooting.
Fred
Maplewood Photography

From: thirdperson thirdperson@sprynet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: any grey market experiences??
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998
BandHPhoto wrote:
(snip)
> > Nikon claims this to be so, but anecdotal evidence from these newsgroups is > that, with the exception of the F5, they cannot always tell whether your > equipment was originally "grey" or "USA." > > I know there are differences in body names, but in all honesty, if someone > walked in with an F90x and claimed to have purchased it used, or claims to have > purchased it legitimately three years ago while overseas, and now wishes to pay > for non-warranty service, do you really think they'd know? > regards, > Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video

There is, of course, substantial truth to your point, Henry, but I would respectfully suggest that maybe you underestimate Nikon Inc's determination on this subject. With lenses they have a difficult time differentiating between grey and U.S. for the obvious reason that there isn't any nomenclature difference between the two types, and, contrary to some claims on this newsgroup, Nikon Inc. does not have a serial number database that tells them the original shipping destination of any particular lens. (Nikon Corp. supposedly does, though I've never seen that confirmed, but, for several reasons, that information is not easily available to Nikon Inc.)
But most camera bodies now have different names in the U.S. than they do elsewhere (since the mid 1980s, as you know), and using your example of an F90x, I am absolutely sure that Nikon Inc. would ask a user to prove with a valid sales receipt from a non-U.S. retailer that it was purchased outside the U.S. before they would do any work on it. I have unequivocably seen them torture customers over this issue, including once an established Australian professional photographer (and member of Nikon Professional Services in Australia) who moved to the U.S. with his gear, but didn't have any of his original sales receipts. He ended up threatening to switch to Canon because of the dispute, but I think Nikon Inc. relented finally. (I never heard what the resolution was.)
I know that you are fully aware of all of the implications of this issue, Henry, but I don't think that most other people realize the gravity of the grey market situation for a distributor like Nikon Inc. They are responsible for the promotion and enhancement of Nikon products and the Nikon brand in their market. They maintain an extensive service network, an extensive support network (800 customer service number, web site, consumer relations department, Nikon Professional Services, etc.), and a large promotional effort (print advertising, brochures, public relations, dealer training, end-user workshops and seminars, Nikon School of Photography etc. etc.). These efforts cost tens of millions of dollars a year and must be paid for by the revenue they generate from the sale of Nikon products in their market. From the point of view of Nikon Inc., if a customer reads about the fabulous new F5 in Pop Photo, calls the consumer relations 800 number or goes to a dealer to pick up a free brochure, looks at the camera at the local Nikon Advanced Systems dealer, attends a weekend workshop or trade show where the camera is being demonstrated, finally decides he/she wants the camera, then orders a grey market unit from B&H;, it's like being cuckolded.
Nikon Inc. informally estimated last year that total grey market volume in the U.S. was somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-35 million dollars and has probably been near that volume for several years. That would represent (these figures are rough) in the region of 8 to 15 percent of their total photo division volume in the U.S. Although Nikon Inc. photo division made a profit last fiscal year, it was the first profit they had made in many years. Given that background I think it's easy to see why they view grey market products with such hostility, and are willing to go to such great length to, as they say, "never knowingly repair a grey market product." (That quote comes from a Nikon service foreman of my acquaintance.)
Finally, (and I didn't intend for this note to be so long) I'm not arguing that Nikon Inc's policies in regard to grey market product are necessarily the best ones. I believe an argument can be made that they are risking alienating a lot of Nikon users over an issue that is really an internal matter between Nikon Inc. and Nikon Corp. I do, however, think these policies are not hard to understand. I also don't have any specific criticisms of anyone who buys grey market product (I like to save money, just like the next guy) or any retailer who sells it (you've gotta make a living; the kids need braces, I understand). But I think that if you and I had the official Nikon distributorship in, say, Botswana, and were required by contract to pay for a service facility and to promote the brand in Botswana, we would look askance at some guy importing Nikon cameras into Botswana from Hong Kong or Singapore and undercutting our price while benefitting from our service facility, advertising, and promotional activities. I think, in fact, he might find himself swimming in the river wearing a pair of the proverbial cement galoshes. (The kids need braces, after all.)
At any rate, the issue has to be settled between Nikon Inc. and Nikon Corp., and I can tell you for certain that grey market product has been consistently the most serious source of friction between the boys in Melville and their superiors in Tokyo, but the Japanese have been very, not to say glacially, slow to address the issue (they must force the independent distributors in other parts of the world who are the source of grey market product to stop trans-shipping out of their home markets). And, of course, in the seventies, eighties, and very early nineties, when everybody was profitable anyway, it was viewed as a minor irritant. But when things turned ugly for Nikon Inc. in the middle nineties, and the Japanese came to the quarterly financial meetings demanding to know why their biggest and most important subsidiary was losing money, the issue became much hotter.
End of cockamamie treatise. Thanks for your patience. Also, Henry, think about that Botswana thing. I know there are several ways it would be different than Manhattan, but we could do well there. I'm tellin' ya, caviar and champagne every night.

From: "C.L.Zeni" Al_Dente@spusghetti.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: any grey market experiences??
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998
It would appear to me that the fundamental issue here is Nikon's pricing structure. Let's look at an FM2n for example. B&H;'s web site lists chrome-bodied FM2n's at $509.95 US, 349.95 grey. How can Nikon Inc justify such a huge difference? Overhead here in the US? Must be some pretty heavy-duty overhead. Cut-throat competition offshore? I doubt it's import duties, but dunno for sure. One would be tempted to think it's Nikon simply charging what the US market would bear - fair enough, that's normal isn't it? They're not running a charity, but expect to make a profit. However, it would appear to me that the market now isn't what it was. I don't think that Nikon would have very much success trying to keep foreign distributors by decree/policy from reselling in the US - if there's a buck/rupiah/ringgit/wan/bhat to be made relling, some enterprising fellow will find out how to resell. No, I think that if Nikon wants to end this practice, it must be made unprofitable, and I would suggest that this is best done by equalizing prices worldwide. If prices are more-or-less equal, the profit is gone and so is the motive to re-export. They'll have some grumpy distributors to be sure, though.
And from the consumer's point of view, this pricing differential really does, in this case, make it almost a no-brainer. I'm anticipating buying an FM2n in the next 3-6 months. My local camera store has a couple of used FM2n's at $375-400 each, one of which is very nice. Then I consider the B&H; price at $350. If they were both new, I'd buy local (personal preference, sorry Henry...:-) But let's see, for $25 less, I get a new camera with a warranty. Pretty much a no-brainer I'd say, but I'd like to see other opinions.

> End of cockamamie treatise. Thanks for your patience. Also, Henry, > think about that Botswana thing. I know there are several ways it would > be different than Manhattan, but we could do well there. I'm tellin' > ya, caviar and champagne every night.

Have not been to Botswana, but suspect caviar and champagne are as scarce as Muslims in the Vatica...
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

From: "Ivan" imfung@idx.com.au
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Buying Equipment in Japan
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998
Chk this site out it is better to look through here than any where else! It's got maps, names and telephone numbers!
http://www.photojpn.org./DIR/vendors.html

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998
From: Photovilla@aol.com
Reply to: hasselblad@kelvin.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Hasselblad 503CW special
I am offering a limited special on import Hasselblad equipment:
503CW kit, including the body, waist level hood, A12 back and 80CFT* lens for $2650.
This compares favorably to the USA kit at B&H; selling for $4211.
This equipment bears a 30 day in-store warranty. All of it is new, untouched in original factory packages. Shipping is extra and this is a cash price. Only a few are available and I would be happy to show one if you are in NYC. Shipping runs $30 via UPS insured.
Cordially,
Rich

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998
From: Photovilla@aol.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: 203FE and 150FE deals
Here is my last ad for a while...
I have one piece of each and I'm selling them way below dealer net.
Both are new in the box, import, with all factory provided papers etc.
203FE body, chrome, with w.l. etc. TTL metering, focal plane shutter, can use FE, C and CF lenses. This is one of the very best Hasselblad's ever made and the B&H; price is $5358. My price for this one piece only is $2850
150f2.8 FE. This is Hasselblad's best 150mm lens. It has a newer, better design than the 150CF. It focuses closer, its one stop faster and its sharper than its CF brother. The B&H; price on this lens is $3265. My price for this one only is $2500.
If you buy the two together I will give you $100 off the total package! This is a fantastic way to upgrade to the better Hasselblad line without selling the house.
Price for cash + shipping. Pick up in NYC can be arranged. Please act fast as there is only this one.
later,
Rich

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Peter Walker pwalker@singnet.com.sg
Subject: Hasselblad prices in other countries
Date: 1998-09-26
I am about to buy a Hasselblad 205FCC. In Singapore, where I live, I have been quoted the following prices:
Body $7,700 Singapore Dollars
80mm $2,100 Singapore Dollars
Prism Finder 90: $850 Singapore Dollars
6x6 Back: $1,350 Singapore Dollars

At today's exchange rate these prices in US Dollar are:
Body $4,500 US Dollars
80mm $1,220 US Dollars
Prism Finder 90: $500 US Dollars
6x6 Back: $780 US Dollars

I travel a lot, so I have the option of buying this equipment, sometime during the remainder of this year in Australia, US, Japan, or Hong Kong.
My question: Does anyone know if these Singapore prices are reasonable? Can someone tell me if I should buy here and now at these prices or wait until one of my trips to the places mentioned above and buy it cheaper. If I could save over 500 dollars I might be prepared to wait.
Regards
Peter
Email: pwalker@singnet.com.sg
URL: http://www.peterwalker.com

From Medium Format Digest:
From: KK kkolam@hotmail.com
Subject: Response to Hasselblad prices in other countries
Date: 1998-09-26
Dear Peter,
I think the prices that you quoted are pretty steep.
I have no on hand price listing for all items but I checked the following last week, from a retail shop in Hongkong (where I live) :
6x6 Back : HK$ 2650.00 (Less than US$ 350.00)
80mm lens : HK$ 7800.00 (US$ 1000.00)
Polaroid back : HK$ 2460.00 ( Less than US$ 320.00)

I bought the Polaroid back from this one-price shop (I have tried to bargain but they are VERY firm on all prices, no move for an inch).
Of course there is no tax in Hongkong.
Think about it.

From Medium Format Digest:
From: kk kkolam@hotmail.com
Subject: Response to how much for 501CM kit in Hong Kong?
Date: 1998-09-26
Dear Toby,
The lowest price so far I have seen for the 501CM kit (body, 80mm lens, A12 Back) is around HK$ 14500.00 (Around/less than CAD 3000.00, no tax)
This price is the lowest so far I know because most shop will ask for around HK$ 16000 (around CAD 3300.00).
I am not sure if this is a promotion package or not, but if you are only interested in purchasing any one item you may talk with the sales people as I think they may be equally happy to sell separately.
Hope this helps.
[Ed. note: $1 CAD (canadian) = $.65 US; so multiply CAD x 2/3rds = US $ ]

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: canon50e@aol.com. (Canon50E)
[1] Re: Camera Shops in Hong Kong
Date: Sun Oct 11 1998

> I >asked a friend of mine in Hong Kong to check out some shops in Wong >Kok and most of them only sell P&S; and digital cameras or never heard >of this lens.

Then I think your friend is looking at Broadway or something :)
Try to tell your friend to go to Mong Kok again and look in Wing Shing, Man Shing, and Mong Kok Camera Center, I'm sure all of them will have this lens. Their prices are the most reasonable of all.
If you want gray market, you can go to Salon in Tsim Sha Tsui behind HMV.
Other resources you may go to is: http://www.npc.org.hk they have a couple of addresses of the names I have listed.
Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
KY Mak
My Photography Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3867/index.html

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Ross McLeish cram@bigpond.com
Subject: Response to Rollei Prices in Hong Kong?
Date: 1998-10-05
I have just arrived back from a shopping trip to Hong Kong, specifically to obtain some accessories for my Rollei 6008i system. Before setting out, I contacted the Rollei distributor in HK, whom put me in touch with the only reputable outlet for Rollei there: Tin Cheung Camera Co, G26 Tung Ying Building, 100 Nathan Road, Tsim Sha Tsui. Tel: 2722 1265,2368 7699; Fax: 2722 1043. This is 5 minutes walk up Nathan Road, heading North(away from the harbour),exit Tsim Sha Tsui MTR station.
You do not mention what the market prices are in your part of the world, however my experience last week indicates that there may be a fairly significant saving from the European and Autralian markets. Eg., I was able to purchase a Schneider f2.8/50mm for HKD26,000 (around USD3500). You may be able to do better in New York(check the net, for prices)but I live closer to HK, and my country has a terrifying tax system on imported cameras!
Also the friendly folks at Tin Cheung were able to supply a range of bits and pieces that I normally would need to wait weeks for import from Germany...
Other prices: 120/220 film insert HKD450(USD61), electronic shutter release HKD360(USD49); 95mm Rollei UV filter(for 180mm and 50mm Schneider lenses) HKD2100(USD288); B+W 95mm UV filter ( similar lenses, although the Rollei is better for the 50mm due that lens front element position)HKD1000(USD137); lens hood for 180mm HKD800 (USD109)although this has recently risen, they quoted and sold at the old price(it should be more now, as it would be new stock).
You should contact Ernest Tsang(pronounced "Chang")...(he was a great help, and very knowledgable)... before you go to ensure that they have your items in stock. I am happy to recommend these professional people to anyone seeking either new or used Rollei equipment (also they carry some beautiful used gems, Rolleiflex, Hasselblads, Leicas, Canon etc). Good luck!

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Daniel Li dli@hkg-co.hk.dhl.com
Subject: Response to Rollei Prices in Hong Kong?
Date: 1998-10-07
I know the owner of Ting Cheung. He is very professional and knowledgeable in Rollei, Contax, Hasselblad, Lecia, etc. His shop has many mint condition used gears. Some of them are collective items. Remeber to negotiate the best prices when you go there to purchase. There is no fixed price for used items. If you need my help, please tell me.
If you like to buy brand new rather than used one, I recommand a shop named Man Shing (near Mongkok MTR station). Now the shop is in renovation and will be opened for business in November. You can go to another shop named Wing Shing (same owner of Man Shing) which is also near the Monkok MTR station. These two shops are the most reliable in Hong Kong. They sell brand new gears only and all the prices are fixed without a step moves. For further information you want, please don't hestiate to give me e-mail. I can check with you.

[Ed. note: thanks for the updates - please let us know if a link fails!]
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998
From: Brian Walsh mche@ucdavis.edu
Reply to: maggie.che@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu, mche@ucdavis.edu
To: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@hermes.seas.smu.edu
Subject: Re: MF lens/camera reviews online Re: Most Bang for the Buck II
Hi--
Seeing your post in rec.photo.equipment.medium-format reminded me: your link to Bubba Chan's useful review of Hong Kong shops might have died. I haven't been able to access it for weeks.
Thanks for putting the information together. (I'm very happy with my new Mamiya 7!)
Brian

From: "Dave Cardinal" djc@best.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: any grey market experiences??
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998
B&H; has started offering a third party national warranty (at least they did on the Nikon lens I bought last week) to go with their gray market products. It offers yet a third option: a longer warranty (7 years, in my case) with national service (helpful for those of us in California) for 1/3 the cost difference between gray and USA.
I haven't the foggiest whether it is worth it, but it certainly makes life more interesting!

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Sidney Tam tams@ttc.com
Subject: Response to Rollei Prices in Hong Kong?
Date: 1998-10-08
I just bought Rollei 6008E package in Tin Cheung at HK$29K with 80mm f2.8, extra battery, charger, car adapter (very useful for outdoor), filter but not the Rollei. I also bought 35mm stuff from Man Shing. Both shops are good. But Man Shing was tempory closed. Good luck.
By the way, I want to look for an extra lens for in-door application. Is there any good recommendation?

From Medium Format Digest:
From: erick kyogoku ekyogoku@uclink.berkeley.edu
Subject: Buying in to Mamiya - Pros and Cons for a novice to MF
Date: 1998-10-09
After reading last week's interesting discussion on buying used Mamiya medium format cameras in Tokyo, I'm considering picking one up on my next visit to Japan. At 80,000 yen (less than $600) for a Mamiya 6 + 75mm lens, I think it's very reasonable.
But I'd like to ask a few questions about moving up to medium format. ...

From the above discussion:
This was Mamiya's reply to the question of service of non-USA Mamiya's:
"Warranty Policy and Future Service
Phillip Cohen - 05:56pm Apr 13, 1998 EST
I am working in Hong Kong and am considering purchasing an RZ outfit while I am here. Can you tell me if the warranty will be honored and after warranty if I will be able to get it serviced in the US when I return. After hearing horror stories about Nikon USA not wanting to service equipment purchased outside of the US I am a bit concerned.
Phil
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Cirillo
- 11:29am Apr 14, 1998 EST (# 1 of 1) Mamiya America
Phillip: Mamiya America can only provide warranty service on products purchased from US dealers. If you purchase equipment overseas, make sure it is working before you return. If you need regular service in the future, we will be happy to provide it to you for our normal charges."

In short, Mamiya-USA doesn't honor the one-year warranty of non-USA new Mamiya's but will service them nevertheless. Cameras purchased as personal equipment overseas as a visitor will not be confiscated by the US Customs by any means (they may tax you but probably not if you are smart about it); I don't like the attitudes of the US Customs but let's not make them out to be ogres. Lest anyone is worried there's nothing wrong with buying camera equipment while overseas, and no, Mamiya USA will not sue private sales even if the equipment is not purchased in the US. Come on, we are liiving in a democracy over here.

From: Wah Wai Tan tanww@pacific.net.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Lowepro Nova 5 in Singapore
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998
Hi Boon-Li,
Cathay Photo is the distributor for Singapore. You can go to the following site to find out the price.
http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/quote.htm
Regards,
Wah Wai

rec.photo.marketplace
From: Thomas Seiler seiler@awi-potsdam.de
[1] Nikon F90X - Why so cheap in Switzerland?
Date: Fri Oct 23 1998
During a holiday in Switzerland, I (from Germany) saw a new Nikon F90X body in a shop in Zuerich at sfr 950,- (which is about DM 1150), coming from sfr 1750. On request, the salesman said, that this is a promotion from Nikon. Even if the swiss marketplace is not known to be cheap, this is much more cheaper than they cost in Germany. On request, german salers do not know that Nikon will reduce the price, they still cost about DM 1700.
Does anybody know more? (sorry, for not posting the prices in US$)
Thomas

rec.photo.marketplace
From: cclark1130@aol.com (CClark1130)
[1] Re: Nikon F90X - Why so cheap in Switzerland?
Date: Fri Oct 23 1998

>Current dealer price for a new N90S here in US is >approx. $800 USD. >This is a drop from $950, prior to price changes. That is probably what is >going on in Switz. , but may be variable in the E.C.

Don't forget that they are buying the F90x without the advantage(????) of the greed-of- Nikon USA-added $100. That means our "grey market" price of less than $700!
Church

rec.photo.equipment.large-format
From: "Chris Newman" chrisn01@sprynet.com
Subject: Re: LF Shopping in Hong Kong
Date: Sat Oct 24 1998
Unfortunately I've lost the name and address of the only two large format camera shops I ever found in Hong Kong. There must be more than these but I never found them and these two are hard to find, although opposite each other. If you walk down Nathan Road, going in the direction of the Star Ferry, the street is on your left shortly after you pass McDonnell's. The shops are located off this street, on the right down a small passage way.
Before shopping in Hong Kong make sure you know the USA price of the items you might buy as everything is negotiable. Always say you are from the USA even if you're not as USA prices are lower than European and that's what the retailer will compete against.
You should save 10 - 30 % over USA prices - depending on how good a barginer you are.
Good luck, Chris Newman

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
[1] Re: Buying a camera in Japan
From: matt@gol.com (Matthew Endo)
Date: Sun Oct 25 1998
Depends on the exchange rate.
The price difference for Mamiya stuff can be up to 50% less if you buy in Japan; 35mm tends to be 10-25% less; it all depends on the rate.
The yen was 145/$, now it is 115. Lots of people who were going to buy stuff in Japan decided it wasn't worth it anymore.
What camera are you looking at? If you are looking at an F5 or top of the line EOS, you can probably save some money, especially if your brother can get a duty free (no tax) price; I have no idea what visa status the military have.
E-mail me if you need a price list of Nikon or Canon 35mm stuff.
Cheers,
--
Matt
matt@gol.com

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: kxa@tky2.3web.ne.jp (-Ken-)
[1] Re: Buying a camera in Japan
Date: Sun Oct 25 1998

JA> Anyone know if there is any significant price advantage to buying a JA> Canon or Nikon camera in Japan? My brother is there in the military, and JA> I'm wondering if it really makes any sense to have him look for one and JA> ship it to me. I've been told sometimes stuff in Japan is actually more JA> expensive than in the US even though it's made there.

I think this has been discussed here a number of times. The general understanding is that for 35mm SLR equipment, the savings can be substantial. How much, obviously depends on the exchange rate of the day :-) If you do buy in Japan, make sure you keep the receipt for warranty work, even if you get the 'worldwide' warranty.
After posting on this subject a while ago, I received a few email inquiries regarding this subject so I very recently put up a mini-info page on this subject, with links to other pertinent sites that I know.
http://www.tky.3web.ne.jp/~kxa/camera-japan.html
Hope this helps.
---
Ken Aoki mailto:kxa@tky2.3web.ne.jp

From: Don Farra dfarra@radar-sci.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: If you are going to Japan.....
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998
I just got back from Japan and have some good and bad news. First the bad news the yen to dollar exchange is very bad for Americans traveling over to Japan to purchase camera gear. While I was there the dollar dropped from 134 to 117 yen to the dollar (in one week!!!), this translates to about 14% increase in prices if I did my math right.
Ok now for the good news, the prices in Japan are still pretty good compared to US prices for some camera gear. For example, I purchased the Mamiya 180 f/4.0 Soft Focus lens for about 128,000 yen or about $1000.00 using 128 yen to the dollar exchange rate. (I actually paid about $958 because I purchased the lens before the bottom dropped out on the dollar 134Y/$.) The way it works is the camera stores will give you 20 to 25% off the list price. But you have to remember the list price in Japan is not the same list price here in the states. For example the list price in yen for the 180 SF lens in Japan is 168,500 Yen if I recall correctly, the current selling price of the same lens here in the states is about $1629 dollars (B&H; Photo catalog referenced), that is with the store discount if any. For this example I will assume it is the list price since the LA stores are selling it for the same price and assuming no sales tax or shipping and handling costs.
Comparing "list to list" the lens in Japan would go for about $1316 (@128 yen/dollar), the difference is about 19%. Now add the 20 to 25% price lowering the Japanese stores give and you get a 39 to 44% difference at 128 yen to the dollar.
Now I know what you are going to say, that is at 128 yen to the dollar and it is 177 right now, well that is true but just a couple of months ago the rate was 144 yen to the dollar and according to analysts the yen to dollar fair exchange rate is some where between 135 and 145 yen to the dollar. So when I use the 128 figure in this example I am being conservative. Also you can get a little better deal if you can pay cash (Yen) for the purchase and if you can bring someone who speaks Japanese: they can bargain a even lower price. There again is something you don't find in the states the power of bargaining with the salesperson. It is accepted in Japan and not so here in the states.
After all when was the last time you bargained for your camera purchases with B&H; Photo or Camera World of Oregon? I tried and got no where.
I can hear the next question, what about customs/duty tax. I listed everything on my form returning state side and ended up paying nothing. Lucky? Maybe, but honest to the bone "yes". I highly recommend listing everything and being honest; the difference between not telling the truth and paying nothing, taking the risk of being caught, sweating it out at the customs inspector line up and just being honest and paying if required is not worth it. Just be sure to estimate the tax you might be required to pay and bring enough US cash to cover it just in case. And don't forget to register any and all camera gear (anything that which has a serial number and any fancy watches or jewelry) with customs before you leave and don't list it on the form when you return to the states. I have to say this because there are some who will not register and end up trying to prove it was no purchased in Japan when they return.
Now the last question I can hear coming is it costs to much to fly there. Yes, it is expensive to fly to Japan. I flew on VASP for $530 round trip from LAX to Osaka, nonstop. But make it a vacation and buy some camera gear and use the savings to offset some of the travel costs, that is what I did. Also don't forget to check out the used camera gear you can find some mint condition stuff for about 20 to 30% lower than new costs (Japan pricing). For example my uncle picked up a mint condition Contax G-1 with a 28 and 45 mm lenses with boxes for about $600, at a small local camera store under a train station overpass in Osaka.
Any guesses how much that would cost here in the states?
I should add one more note, if you use a credit card be sure to call your card provider and make sure they allow for larger than normal purchases while on your trip. Some banks will automatically not allow larger than normal purchases as a safety feature in the event the card is lost or stolen. In such cases the card holder is to call into the card issuing bank and allow the purchase. Well that is fine here in the states, maybe, but in Japan the card purchase will be rejected and there is no one ot call unless you happen to have the bank number for Japan and want to hassle with calling and trying to straighten out the mess over the phone. My recommendation is call before you leave and explain the situation and have them remove the cap while still remaining within your credit allowance.
Does it seem I am speaking from experience? I had this problem and lucky for me I had another card and it worked.
If you plan to use your ATM card you can provided you can find an ATM machine that will accept it and note that you will be limited as to how much you can withdraw per day. You can use your Master Card and VISA card to get cash, but you must have the PIN number in order to do this, and most credit card cash advances are treated differently and will start the interest from the moment the cash is issued, no grace period. Check with your bank that issued the card.
Post your questions and comments since I have to much e-mail to answer as it is and I will try to answer or reply to your comments as I see fit.
Don
=======

rec.photo.marketplace
From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
[1] Re: Need Advice on Grey Market or USA Nikon 600mm lens Date: Thu Oct 29 1998
Pay the bucks and buy US. I ahve one I bought new and it tumbled out of the van while I reached for my tripod. Fortunately there was no damage but you never know when adversity might strike.
That'd have been impact damage, and neither the Nikon USA warranty nor a store's "grey market" store warranty would have covered it.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

[Ed. note: contrary to some folk's hopes, dropped cameras or impact damage is virtually never covered under mfger or dealer warranties...]
rec.photo.marketplace
From: kevend@enc-1.com (tom dougherty)
[1] Re: Need Advice on Grey Market or USA Nikon 600mm lens
Date: Sun Nov 01 1998
I have been purchasing camera equipment for a long time and I have never once even needed to use a warranty. In the camera shop I work at about 95% of repairs that come in are cameras people drop. I say why worry about the warranty after one year. If you have any problem with Nikon's service just ask your local shop for the Nikon reps name and phone number and give him/her a call and they will take care of you 90% of the time

Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998
From: swiss@gis.net
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Hasselblad 203 FE
So far the cheapest I priced this camera body is $3,829 from Cayman Camera, Georgetown, Cayman Island. This is a respectable dealer in duty free caribbean. From your wealth of resoursces, are you possibly aware of any cheaper duty free and reliable camera retailers? ($5,300 is the U.S. average) Duty Free trade zones seem to growing everywhere and I'm sure other readers may have observations to offer. Yes I know the pitfalls thank you,reliable and respected dealers are the operative words.
[Ed. note: If anyone has a better source or info to share, please contact using the email address above, thanks! ]

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: chris@somewhere.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,uk.rec.photo.misc
[1] Re: Purchase Leica M6 in Hong Kong?
Date: Mon Nov 02 1998
Cameras aren't subject to sales tax in Hong Kong - therefore no benefit from buying at the airport (even though they have big signs telling you they are TAX FREE so is everybody else!!!)

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Your God!!" louishoyinyu@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,uk.rec.photo.misc
[1] Re: Purchase Leica M6 in Hong Kong?
Date: Mon Nov 02 1998
I suggest you do not buy in the airport, because they will almost double the price. Also, there is not sale tax in Hong Kong anyway.

From: "skgrimes" skgrimes@ma.ultranet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: Need Advice on Grey Market or USA Nikon 600mm lens
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998
Service is usually available at a price but some companies are pretty reluctant to provide it. The absolute most "ball buster" about this is Bogen with their "Metz" flash line. When I worked in a camera repair shop we had a bona fide French tourist with a Metz problem and we had to supply Bogen with (no kidding) the original French receipt, and a copy of the tourist's passport(!) Even then their response was a very chilly "Well, OK, we'll take care of it *this time*
For many marketing companies the repair/service department is considered an "expense" (even though you may think they profit by it) and will look for any legitimate excuse (not our product, old model, etc etc) to avoid handling it. SKG
--- S.K. Grimes -- Feinmechanik ----

From: LF zhonge@netvigator.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: LF Shopping in Hong Kong
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998
there are about 4 camera shops available in Hong Kong for LF.
1. 2 in Tung Ying Building, Nathan Road, TST
1 in Miramar (just next to the above)
the last David Chan Co. (next building of the TY and Miramar)
you can locate both new and second hand LF gear in these shops. I know that the Sinar local dealer are having a promotion on its gear.Where the F1 with a standard lens cost USD 1,417 & P2 plus mech aperture shutter cost around USD 4,900. Your can also located some used one in these shops, but as far as I know there were not cheaper as the US market price (because most shops brought there gear from US, Eup and Japan). It is hard to bargain on the new gear (where price is fixed between the local dealer and the shops with a certain % of discount ). But for the used one it will depend on how well you can bargain (also depends on the knowledge and understanding on your target equipment).
If there is anything I can help, feel free to let me know.
Edward

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Andreas Carl andreas@physio.unr.edu
Subject: Response to Old MF Projectors
Date: 1998-10-27
I was in Japan 2 weeks ago and it's true, Mamiya gear is much cheaper there. Since the Yen strengthened against the dollar last month, the difference isn't quite that big anymore...

From: Stan Halpin smhalpin@concentric.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Photo equip purchase in Panama
Date: 01 Nov 1998
I will be going to Panama on business next month. Have heard that Panama is like the Hong Kong of this hemisphere; many items, good low prices.
I am interested in Pentax gear in particular. Can anyone verify availability of good deals on photo equipment there? Any particular store(s) or area(s) to look? Price comparison with, for example, B&H;?
Thanks!
Stan

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: evanjoe685@aol.com (Evanjoe685)
[1] Re: Buying equipments in China?
Date: Thu Nov 05 1998
I was in Bejing, Cina last year in April, so I can only speak for Bejing area. Cameras that are available are the Seagull line of SLRs, P & S, and TLR. Minolta, Canon, Nikon, Vivitar and Cosina SLRs are sold there. The prices of cameras are on par to what you will pay from B & H Photo. The country of origin for most of the cameras are from China or Thailand. Your best bet is to buy from the Beijing department stores as the price is fixed and they DO have more than of each camera in supply. Try not to buy from the small Mom and Pop shops, as they do not have the lastest stuff and they tend to be overpriced. As for 120 film, Yes it is available, but only from the department store. They do however carry the latest emulsion at a fraction of what you would pay in New York. 220 film is scarce and some department store carries them, but be prepare to search for it. Buy all of your film either in Hong Kong or in the China department stores only. Film can be processed in One Hour Photo Labs there. Film processing is CHEAP, FAST, and HIGH QUALITY.
If you need any further additional information you can email me private at Evanjoe685@AOL.com
Thanks,
Evan Dong

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Benny Kwok bennyguo@ust.hk
[1] Re: Buying equipments in China?
Date: Thu Nov 05 1998
While some large format gears are hard to find in china, you still can got some good deal in many 35 mm SLR gears. I just happen to visit a web site with latest price of camera in china market, and found that the price is comparable or even lower than that of Hong Kong. When compare with U.S. mail order company, the price level is similar as the lowest price you can find in Pop Photo magazine (CCI? I'm not sure). Of course, they are 'gray market' goods and may not carry international warranty. So you can hardly found these good deal in big department store because it's somewhat 'illegal' to sale these goods in China. Try to find reputable camera shop in Guangzhou is the best way. Good Luck.
Benny

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: cpovey@mindspring.com (Colin Povey)
[1] Re: Gray Market Lenses for Pentax 67
Date: Sun Nov 08 1998
While I have not purchased grey market Pentax 67 lenses, I have purchased other equipment grey market with no problems.
Grey equipment is the EXACT same equipment that is sold as USA, made by the same people on the same assembly lines. The ONLY difference is who imports it to the USA, and who provides warrantly service.
With something complex, like a Rollei 6008 or a new to the market strobe, I will buy normal US imports. With lenses, always buy grey market. Lenses almost never break, especially those without shutters.
In addition, I would only buy grey market from a company that has a good reputation, as they are your source of warranty. B&H;, Adorama, M&M; come to mind.
In addition, I would only buy grey market from a company that has a good reputation, as they are your source of warranty. B&H;, Adorama, M&M; come to mind.
Colin

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Sharon" Sharonk@cimatron.co.il
[1] Re: Thailand prices?
Date: Sun Nov 08 1998
Olof hi
I went to thailand last year and bougth an F50 nikon camera.
it cost me 11000 bat in a store at tokyo center (it's one of the largest centers in bankok).
Go there before you starting your trip for the north or south (islands).
last year the bat was 1$=38 bat so the camera cost me about 280$.
this year the bat is about 45-50 bat for one dollar so... it can cost you about 230$.
have a nice trip !!!! you can email me if you need advice on thailand.
Sharon

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: sorayuth@aol.com (Sorayuth)
[1] Re: Thailand prices?
Date: Sun Nov 08 1998

From Thai Web board
Canon EOS88+35-80/4-5.6(15,500 Baht)
Minolta Dynax505Si+28-80/4.5-5.6(16,500)
Nikon F60+35-80/4-5.6(17,500)
As of today, the rate is around 36.25-36.40 Bath/USD
You can also check other rate at
http://www.bbl.co.th/bankrates/fx_rates_curr.htm
Hope that this help
George

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: azenha@mail.telepac.pt (Sergio Azenha)
[1] Re: Sigma 70-300 apo macro half price in France
Date: Sat Nov 07 1998
FYI, the Sigma 70-300 mm f/4-5.5 APO Macro is available by USA mail-order for less than US$270, by itself, with no other purchases necessary.
I don't know if you are aware of this but if us european people were to import the lens from the US we'd have to pay quite a lot not only in mailing costs but he would also have to pay the taxes. Furthermore, US mail order companies don't usually mail this kind of material to Europe.
Anyway, that particular lens is selling for $270 in Germany. Take a look at http://www.ny-camera.com/ They have good prices and excellent delivery conditions for us europeans.
regards,
Sergio Azenha

[Ed. note: one of the benefits of competition from grey markets is that it forces importers to adjust prices to justifiable levels, or lose sales!]

From: Ed Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
[1] Canon slashes lens prices
Date: Fri Nov 13 1998
According to this weeks Amateur Photographer the following cuts have been made:-

Down by 2000ukp --------------- 600mm f/4 Down by 1500ukp --------------- 400mm f/2.8 Down by 1200ukp --------------- 200mm f/1.8L Down by 500ukp -------------- 50mm f/1 85mm f/1.2 17-35mm f/2.8 Down by 400ukp -------------- EF 300mm f/4L TSE 24mm f/3.5L :) TSE 45mm f/2.8 TSE 90mm f/2.8 Down by 300ukp -------------- 14mm f/2.8L 400mm f/5.6L 180mm f/3.5L macro 28-70mm f/2.8L 35-350mm f/3.5L 70-200mm f/2.8L Down by 100ukp -------------- 75-300mm IS 24-85mm f/3.5 + 4 other consumer lenses (not specified)

Ed

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
[1] Re: Canon slashes lens prices
From: Commercial-free@speech.com (Adrian Legg)
Date: Thu Nov 12 1998
Ed psyche@dial.pipex.com wrote:

> According to this weeks Amateur Photographer the following cuts have > been made:- > > Down by 2000ukp > --------------- +++snip of good news++++

Well overdue eh? Is it an attempt to support their authorised dealer network in the face of the grey market ? I wonder what it does to existing retail stock ?
TSE 24mm f/3.5L :)
Got one. But still lusting after a TSE 90... :-)

From: tbuckley@uvic.ca (Tom Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: "Gray market" Nikon facts
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998
I'm amazed at how much confusion there is about the meaning of gray market and about warranty transfers. For example, it's often implied that "gray market" gear is functionally inferior to regular priced gear. It isn't. And it's often claimed that Nikon warranties are transferable. They aren't. Here are some facts for Nikon gear, as I understand them.
1. Most dealers sell Nikon cameras that come with the standard Nikon warranty as well as an international warranty. The standard warranty can vary, depending on the country. For example, in Canada the F90x comes with a two year Nikon warranty. In the USA, as far as I know, the N90s comes with one year Nikon warranty. The N90s and F90x are the same camera with different lettering. Many Nikon cameras have different designations in the USA.
2. The Nikon warranty is not transferable. That means that if you buy a used Nikon, even if it comes with a warranty card, Nikon won't honour it. There are ways to get around this, but they involve lying.
3. Some dealers, especially New York dealers, offer "gray market" Nikon equipment. As far as I know there are ONLY TWO DIFFERENCES from the regular priced Nikons sold in the USA. They do not have a Nikon warranty, and they may have the international numbering. Aside from the numbering and warranty, gray market Nikon gear is identical to regular priced gear. If you order a gray market N90s from B&H;, you might end up with the identical F90x. You'll get a B&H; warranty, which is considerably less useful than a Nikon warranty if you live outside New York and near a Nikon service centre. If you order a 35-70 f2.8 AFD gray market lens, you'll get the same lens as the regular priced one, although it may not come in the same Nikon box (I think Nikon uses different packaging in different countries).
If I'm wrong about any of this, perhaps someone can straighten me out.
Tom Buckley

From: "Alexander George" 6164@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: "Gray market" Nikon facts
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998
I purchased my F90X in Hong Hong. It came with a one-year International warranty card that Nikon USA honored.
best regards
Alex

[ED. note: the M/M Act was hotly debated in Modern Photography and other photo magazines when it was first adopted in 1976, but for obvious reasons you don't hear a lot about it from your photo dealers and sales folks ;-) You may also have additional warranties under your State Consumer Protection Laws too. Finally, the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) also has requirements for fitness of purpose (it's gotta work) and merchantability (not junk) that can provide consumers with relief and damages.]
From: wi5s@wws.net (Charles Knight)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: "Gray market" Nikon facts
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998
(Tom Buckley) wrote:

>2. The Nikon warranty is not transferable. That means that if you buy a >used Nikon, even if it comes with a warranty card, Nikon won't honour it. >There are ways to get around this, but they involve lying.

The Magnussen-Moss warranty act of 1976 REQUIRES that the unexpired portion of ANY warranty be transferrable to ANY new purchaser. This is the LAW and applies to anything, not just cameras.

>3. Some dealers, especially New York dealers, offer "gray market" Nikon >equipment. As far as I know there are ONLY TWO DIFFERENCES from the >regular priced Nikons sold in the USA. They do not have a Nikon warranty, >and they may have the international numbering. Aside from the numbering >and warranty, gray market Nikon gear is identical to regular priced gear. >If you order a gray market N90s from B&H;, you might end up with the >identical F90x. You'll get a B&H; warranty, which is considerably less >useful than a Nikon warranty if you live outside New York and near a Nikon >service centre. If you order a 35-70 f2.8 AFD gray market lens, you'll get >the same lens as the regular priced one, although it may not come in the >same Nikon box (I think Nikon uses different packaging in different >countries). > >If I'm wrong about any of this, perhaps someone can straighten me out.

Warranties are given by the seller of the merchandise. If you fill in a warranty card, you are limiting yourself and agreeing to whatever warrant is stated on the card, but if you do NOT fill it in, the person. firm, or corporation selling you the item has whatever warranty obligation was promised. Another may fulfill this obligation (such as a factory) or not fill it as he himself sees fit, but the seller always has primary responsibility unless you agree otherwise which you do when you fillout a warranty card. BTW, No warranty may specify that you fill out a card in order to be valid. This Magnussen-Moss Warranty act may be found and read on the web with very little searching.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Synapse Man huh?@brain.dead.com
[1] Re: Singapore
Date: Mon Nov 16 1998
Go to http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg and e-mail them for a quote.
They are generally the ones with the best prices in Singapore.
Fr: KL
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s169893/photo.htm
nick ure wrote:

> My parents are going to Singapore in the new year and I am in the market for > a Nikon N60, does anyone now if Singapore sells cameras at discount prices > similar to Hong Kong ?. Would it be worth the wait (about 3 months) ? thanks > Nick

rec.photo.marketplace
From: "Seniors Photo Centres" enquiries@seniors.co.nz
[1] Camera Specials
Date: Tue Nov 17 1998
Overseas photography enthusiasts can take advantage of our current exchange rate and purchase cameras from New Zealand over the internet. Visit http://www.seniors.co.nz.
secure credit card transcactions
cheaper than retail prices
excellent exchange rate!

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998
From: krisada sangpetchsong k.sangpetchsong@cranfield.ac.uk
Subject: Re:Best prices in Japan [13]
Hi,
I think that Yodobashi is one of the most popular camera shop in Japan. Here are the URL for bodies:
http://www.yodobashi.co.jp/cgi-bin/webdriver2?MIval=mc_page001&sst;_id=0000000001 &dc;_id=1100000&mc;_id=011040000&PSTART;=10
lenses:
http://www.yodobashi.co.jp/cgi-bin/webdriver2?MIval=mc_page001&sst;_id=0000000001 &dc;_id=4100000&mc;_id=041015000&PSTART;=10
However Yodobashi web pages are in Japanese and njwin32 may help. See: www.njstar.com
You may also email Yodobashi directly: info@yodobashi.co.jp
all the best
Krisada
- ----------------------
krisada sangpetchsong
Cranfield University

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Leo leosung@netvigator.com
[1] Re: Cost of Contax in Asia??
Date: Fri Nov 27 1998
Sean,
Contax in Hongkong is at very low price. I don't know how much a AX is. However I just new purchased some: Aria at $3900, 50f1.4 at $1900, 25f2.8 at $3900 and 80-200 at $5200 (all in Hongkong dollar). You know there are no tax in Hongkong and the exchange rate to USD is 7.8......
Welcome to Hongkong.

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998
From: Larry Albert larry.albert@murraystate.edu
To: panorama-l@sci.monash.edu.au
Subject: Fuji TX-1 Grey Market already in USA
Grey Market Fuji TX-1 (version of Hasselblad X-Pan) is already being sold by KEH in USA.
http://www.keh.com/catalog/text/Pm.html
FUJI TX-1 W/45 F4,90 F4,HOOD,CAPS, STRAP
(35MM)(INTL HASS XPAN) LN- $1899
===== ===== ======
Larry Albert
TV Engineer

From: Ronald Shu shourong.shu@isc.ucsb.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Hong Kong shopping?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998
Photo Info Highway at http://128.111.124.11/ssr/photolinks.htm will tell you where to buy in HK. Find the 'Buy Photo Equipment' section on that site.
Ronald

From: abrel@my-dejanews.com (Willis B. Boyce)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Canon slashes lens prices
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998
What are the UK prices?
Expensive. :-) Most things photo-related are about 50% more expensive in the UK than they are in the US, including consumables like film.
I'm frankly surprised that British people pay such outrageous sums of money for photo gear when they could save hundreds of pounds by ordering the stuff from New York. If you order from New York, you have to pay the 17.5% value added tax (VAT) plus customs duty, but usually it STILL winds up being cheaper.
The most ridiculous price difference than I've encountered was on a Bogen Autopole background system. The whole kit ran about $500 at B&H; in New York. (The standard kit is $325, but I bought a few other things as well.) It cost **$299** to ship it from New York to London (via FedEx Priority). Once it got here, I had to pay 17.5% VAT and duty on the $500, and I STILL saved about 200 pounds over buying the stuff locally.
I've only found two things, so far, which are cheaper in the UK than in the US: Elinchrom studio lighting and secondhand Bronica gear.
Willis

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01)
[2] Re: Gray Market Items
Date: Sat Dec 05 1998
Gray market is another name for parallel imports,--things brought in via something other than the "Factory autorized" distributor for that area, e.g. Nikon USA, in the case of Nikon in the United States.
You have several options for getting a parallel import F5 repaired:
(1) Warranty type failure,--return it to the purchase source. Most dealers will provide warranty coverage to you by default. Usually it's at least one year. But, think about it. The F5 is so well made that you will probably NEVER need to resort to this.
(2) Non-warranty problems (you dropped it, etc. or it's beyond the warranty period),--send to a factory authorized repair facility off shore (if you want, to Nikon) or give it to your handy neighborhood repair shop. Expect to pay less for the non-factory repair guy because his overhead is less.
This is really not that big a deal! 90% or more of you will NEVER have to worry about a warranty failure, yet you're going to pay a lot more for the "US warranty." Don't kid yourself that a "factory approved" repair facility is that much better!
Edgy01@aol.com

[Ed. note: which warranty did you get from your U.S. dealer, anyway? ;-)]
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998
From: "Stuart A. Pearl" sapearl@mindspring.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Cc: sapearl@mindspring.com
Subject: Warranty Info Surprise
I apolologize in advance if I'm restating common knowledge....
Talked with a Hassy rep this morning about HB new equipment warranties. If you purchase a new piece of gear in the U.S. from an authorized Hasselblad Dealer, it comes with the standard 3 year U.S. Warranty. If you buy the identical item from a NON-authorized dealer here in the U.S., you only get the ONE YEAR year warranty, which is from the factory in Sweden. Another interesting way to control your resellers. Buyer beware....
- Stu

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: SV: [Rollei] QZ 35

>I am glad to find that I am not alone in wondering at the price of the QZ- I >can get a good used M6 for about that! >Dan >dwpost@msn.com

Rollei just cut the wholesale price in half. You will see advertised prices tumble.
Bob

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998
From: Marc James Small msmall@roanoke.infi.net
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Hasselblad, Koda, the Novar, and All That
Bob Shell wrote:

>At the time I was writing my Hasselblad book about eight years ago Kodak >still had substantial financial interest in Hasselblad. My guess is that >they probably still do.

Well, Hasselblad was recently sold to an anonymous group of investors, and the Hasselblad family no longer have a significant interest, if any. I strongly suspect Kodak is quite absent from the new mix.
Marc

Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998
From: "Dr. James Chow" jchow@atom.isl.melco.co.jp
To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Rollei] factory service

>When the shutter of my 180.2.8 failed to step down early this year, the >lens was sent back to Germany by the local distributor in Malaysia. The >turn around time was 8 weeks. It was diagnosed and repaired (cracked >shutter!), and had been functioning perfectly ever since.

When I had my 300/4 apo worked on (shutter problem developed when shooting in -15 C at 1/500 sec, but I bought this lens used), it also took exactly 8 weeks from the day I mailed it to the day I received it. As I called Rollei service a number of times to verify it had been received, here's why it takes so long...

1 week (shipping via air from Japan to Germany) 4 weeks in German customs (!!!) 1 week to issue the repair estimate and for me to wire the currency in DM 1.5 weeks for the repair 0.5 weeks for the return shipping by air plus Japanese customs

So clearly, the bottleneck is Germany customs. The person at Rollei service said it usually takes 4-5 weeks to clear customs; if you want it faster, you have to pay customs for special handling!
When I had a problem w/ my first 6008i body under warranty (I needed it in 1 month for a shoot), I guess Rollei paid for the quicker customs processing and gave me rush-repair service, as I received it back in 3 weeks! Anyways, there seems to be a consensus that Brauschweig factory service in terms of quality/workmanship is very good. Now if only the overseas repair facilities/support were as good, then Rollei could be more competitive vs. Hasselblad.
--Jim

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Sal Sessa" sal@salsessa.com
[1] Re: Does Nikon require proof of purchase re: warranty?
Date: Wed Dec 09 1998
Gdoces wrote
>>Robert Nicholson wrote in message ... >>>If I buy a N90s (not grey) and it comes with registration cards >>> >>>will Nikon insist on proof of purchase to register or exercise warranty? >> >>Uh, if you buy grey Nikon does not warrant the product. That's why it's >>grey! ;)

Woops. I read it wrong. I thought he was saying he *did* buy it gray.
If you buy a N90S (or any Nikon body new) and it has the registration cards with it, I believe you have to show proof of purchase to exercise warranty but not to "register" the camera.
There are two things that come with a camera (when you buy it new in a box.) One is a little "registration card" (which is just basically a way to get you on a mailing list, and into their system,) and the other is a three part "Warranty" card which you send in when you need repairs.
If you look at the "Warranty Form" it says:
"You must present the attached warranty form (part 1) together with proof-of-purchase and proof-of-purchase date to obtain warranty service."
Sal Sessa / Dallas
________________
sal@salsessa.com
http://www.salsessa.com

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: thirdperson thirdperson@sprynet.com
[1] Re: Nikon International Warranty
Date: Wed Dec 09 1998
Gdoces wrote:

> I have been told by a Singapore dealer that an "International Warranty" > supposedly from Nikon on one of their lenses is valid and will be honored in > the U.S.A. I find that somewhat difficult to believe. Does anyone know if > such is true?

If you buy the lens in Singapore, from an authorized dealer, as opposed to from a grey market dealer in the U.S., then, yes, the worldwide warranty will be honored by all authorized Nikon distributors, including Nikon Inc. in the U.S.

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998
From: "Dougherty, Sean" Sean@penpower.com
Subject: SB-28: Horror Stories [v04.n156/1]
A quick warning for those out there thinking about the SB-28. I figured I would get it from a local dealer rather than mail order and that way if I had trouble it would be easier to get it fixed. The SB-28 I bought had the mystery flash-by-itself problem, so I took it back and dealer did replace it (though the replacement was an earier serial number). It had the problem as well. I took that one back, and they suggested that I call up Nikon for them to fix it rather than go through them. The flashes misfired on all the cameras I put it on, even the dealer demo cameras... but only misfired in TTL Matrix, not TLL, A, or M.
In calling Nikon, they wanted me to send both the flash, and my camera to them for diagnostics and repair. It was like both Nikon and the dealer had never even heard of the problem. All of this was not at all what I wanted to hear, especially this time of the year, so I decided to go back to the dealer and ask for a refund or store credit, buy it through B&H; and be done with it. But now the store won't take it back since they've exchanged it.
To the camera store's credit, after asking to do this they've exchanged the unit flash unit again with a much later serial number unit they didn't know they had, and my problems may be over... (maybe I'm paranoid to think this last part of the story sounds suspicious)
But you spend all of this money on camera gear under the idea you are getting excellent service for it, as well as high reliability, when in reality you go around with your flash going bonkers getting strange looks and Nikon wants you to fork over half your photographic equipment for the remainder of the holiday season because they evidently don't want to recognize that a widespread problem exists.
Don't get me wrong, I love my camera... but it seems Nikon USA is intent on weaseling out of fixing as many SB-28's as possible. I can't say if I would have been better of buying it from B&H;, but if I had it to do over again, I'd not have gotten it locally.
Sean Dougherty

[Ed. note: My point in including this "horror story" is not to disparage Nikon USA or its store/dealer, who are evidently offering to fix these problems. Rather, my point is that it is a common industry practice (not just Nikon, or even the US photographic industry/dealers) to avoid publicizing problems with photo-gear, for reasons that are very obvious. The expense of recalls and free product fixes to dealers and stores is certainly an understandable dis-incentive too.
Unfortunately for the photo industry, the Internet has made such information accessible and freely available (and easily searched), largely through cooperative user to user efforts such as this page and the various user groups and mailing lists (e.g., Nikon Digest). Most industry groups haven't caught on to this yet - but they soon will.
My recommendation to each reader as a consumer is to do some research prior to buying in the various online and relevant mailing group archives to learn about problems before you buy. I also suggest that the early adopters or pioneers are called that because they get the arrows in their backs. In other words, I suggest waiting until they get the bugs out of the early production run units.
I have also suggested in Death Spiral of Serious Amateur Photography that the decline of photography is partly due to the decline in camera stores. Camera stores and distributors who lock customers into no-win situations such as the above "horror story" can hardly blame us when we switch channels and even brands after such bad experiences.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: thirdperson thirdperson@sprynet.com
[1] Re: Far East purchase vs B&H;, CWO, Adorama
Date: Fri Dec 11 1998
Doug Weiss wrote:

> The warranties will differ....Canon US honors any purchase, Nikon USA > doesn't...that isn't the question here. I travel enough so that isn't > an issue.

If you buy a Nikon camera in Hong Kong, assuming it's new and comes with the proper worldwide warranty documents, that worldwide warranty is valid and will be honored by all Nikon subsidiaries and distributors, including Nikon USA. They will not honor the warranty on a camera that was intended for the Hong Kong (or other non-U.S.) market that was purchased in the U.S.
If you buy a camera in Hong Kong, keep your receipt and you'll be eligible for warranty repair anywhere, including the U.S.

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998
From: Streetfoto@aol.com
Subject: Greymarket wisdom [v04.n154/4]
I have been reading the postings regarding B&H; and after several experiences I have my own suggestions to pass on the following.
1. Know that the state of New York has strict grey market disclosure laws. If you specifically ask for the manufacturer's warranty with a product you wish to purchase, the dealer cannot legally replace it with a "grey market" "direct import" or whatever else they want to call it. That's why when you call Nikon they always tell you to ask the dealer for a "Nikon Inc. warranty". The failure of the customer to request such leaves them open to receive anything that the dealer wishes to send.
2. If you ask for a Nikon US warranty product and get a product with no warranty card, SEND IT BACK IMMEDIATELY. Don't bother waiting for a "replacement warranty card". If as the dealer claims, Nikon "forgot" to include the warranty card, let the dealer worry about it. Send it back and demand a product with the proper paper work. If you choose to wait weeks, months for that piece of paper that never seems to come, it's your own fault.
3. Before you throw away the box, before you put film in the camera, before anything else make sure that everything you are supposed to get with the product is in the box. If it's not call the dealer and let them know that you are sending it back and want a replacement product with all that it supposed to be included.
I know it may be a pain in the shins to return a product you have been anticipating for weeks or maybe months, but if you want to protect yourself you have to be willing to do what it takes. If being without the product until you get what you pay for is too much for you and you don't want to take that kind of risk, buy local. Yes, it may be more expensive and you have to pay taxes, but at least you can check the box BEFORE you leave the store, you can return to the store and talk to a flesh and blood human being to help you resolve your problem, and if you are lucky you can even build a relationship with a dealer that will be far more gratifying than any you can have on the phone.
I know that cost is the bottom line for a lot of people and that's why they buy mail order, but if you don't read the small print and don't educate yourself and you make a decision based only on the tantalizing price being dangled under you nose, you are walking a potentially expensive and aggravating road.
Caveat Emptor (Let the Buyer Beware)

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "David Foy" nomail@this.address.please
[1] Re: Duties & Taxes: Info for Canadians buying from US Mailorder Companies
Date: Thu Dec 17 1998
Thanks for the information on buying new. Perhaps I can add some information.
Used camera equipment from the US requires no payment of customs duties. If you bring it in via UPS or FedEx, you'll undoubtedly have to pay a customs broker, though, just for documenting it. The last time UPS stuck it to me, the charge was $30 for brokerage.
By far the best alternative is to bring it in via the post office. If the value is over $30 (I think -- possibly $20) they will charge GST and a $5 documentation charge.
--
Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please reply to: david.foy@shaw.wave.ca
David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512 Xris wrote in message ...

>There I was, using my handy currency converter to total up the cost of >buying a Canon Elan IIe, 28-105USM lens and a 380ex flash at (US >mail-order Co.) B&H; versus my corner store (Alberta, Canada), and I >thought WOW! What a great deal! > >Then I investigated shipping & Customs... > >(All following prices in CANADIAN dollars) > >Cost of Grey Market B&H; equip: $1255 >After GST: $1343.31 >After Duties (see below) $1362.10 >After estimated Shipping Costs $1427 (add $25 for overnight) > >The least expensive shipping method (and the one suggested by the customs >official) is to use generic US mail/airmail. B&H; lists the shipping prices >conveniently, so you can figure them out for yourself, but considering >they're in US dollars, you may be in for a shock when you exchange >them...(also, courier companies use a customs broker, so the duties may be >higher through them). > >Cost of same at my local corner camera specialists: $1487 >After GST: $1591.09 > >(CDN Duty info right from customs, FYI) >Lenses 2% duty >Flashes 5% duty >camera bodies duty free >Bags 7% >Accessories 5% > >So the question becomes, is it worth it for about $150? Considering >warranty questions, having the store (literally 1 block away) nearby for >concerns, questions...Maybe it would be best to get the camera body at the >store, and order the flash & lens from B&H; (that's where $120 of the >markup is anyway...) > >YEESH! > >Heh, I could trim some of those taxes if I could convince B&H; to enclose a >Christmas card... ;-) > >Any input would be appreciated, > >Xris

[Ed. note: the Fuji TX-1 is similar to the Hasselblad X-pan etc.]
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998
From: Alan & Shari Kafton shmooze@sonic.net
To: panorama-l@sci.monash.edu.au
Subject: Re: Fuji TX-1 Grey Market already in USA
Larry Albert wrote:

> Grey Market Fuji TX-1 (version of Hasselblad X-Pan) > is already being sold by KEH in USA. > > http://www.keh.com/catalog/text/Pm.html > > FUJI TX-1 W/45 F4,90 F4,HOOD,CAPS, STRAP > (35MM)(INTL HASS XPAN) LN- $1899 > > ===== ===== ====== > Larry Albert > TV Engineer > TV-11/ TV-46 > Murray State University > located in Murray, Kentucky USA > ===== ===== =====

Just got back about 1 hour ago from a business trip to Japan. I saw the Fuji TX-1 with 45mm lens for 174,000 Yen, which equals to $1,475 at the current 118 yen/$. There is tax on top of that, but I think it can be waved with a passport.....
--Alan Kafton

[Ed. note: the grass isn't always greener elsewhere...]
From: fgernens@its.summer.enternet.nospam.com.au (Frank Ernens)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: sales tax on photo gear in Australia
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998
Some time ago I posted some incorrect information here about sales tax on photographic equipment in Australia. I said then that the tax was 30% on the wholesale price. In fact, the Australian Customs Service tells me the rate is 38.4% on the retail price. Perusing ads which show prices including and excluding tax show an effective rate of 36%.
I am unsure of the tax on film, but think it is 5% import duty plus 22% tax, for a total of 27%.
The effect of the tax is that secondhand equipment here costs what new gear does overseas.
The rest of this article is slightly political....
Foreigners may be wondering by now why the Customs service is involved with sales tax. The reason is that it is a _de facto_ import duty. The tax applies *even* if the equipment is purchased by mail from overseas. If the value of the equipment is more than $400 it applies if purchased *in person* at an overseas shop. The tax even applies to secondhand goods purchased overseas from a private individual for private use.

From: "Geoff Bryant" gbryant@ihug.co.nz
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: sales tax on photo gear in Australia
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:50:17
...

What you've said is true, but if your government does what was done in New Zealand when GST was introduced you shouldn't have any problems. Here in NZ all import duties and sales taxes on photographic equipment (and many other things) were removed when GST was introduced. Consequently, we can now purchase such equipment at prices that are very internationally competitive. Whenever I visit Australia I always make sure that I take all the photographic material I need with me - even your film and processing is expensive.
In short, are you sure the government will keep the other taxes when GST is introduced? If so, how did they ever sell that policy?
Geoff Bryant

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: kmorris@telusplanet.net (Bucks)
Subject: Re: Duties & Taxes: Info for Canadians buying from US Mailorder Companies
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998

>Depending on the shipping company, there may also be a fee for >negotiating your equipment through customs, as you mentioned. >This is typically $20. I can't remember if it was UPS or Fed >Ex that did this to me. (I once ordered a T-shirt from a company >in the states. It was supposed to cost $20 but after shipping >and that darned customs handling fee, it ended up being $50! >I couldn't believe it!) > >If you use standard mail, there may be a customs handling charge >in addition to duties. (Yup, this has happened to me, too. The >handling charge was more than the duty itself.) Customs really >knows how to rip you off in Canada! Man, what ever happened to >that Free Trade Agreement. Doesn't seem to exist for the common >man! Okay, enough ranting! > >By the way, there are some reasonable deals on equipment in Canada. >For example, I got a Nikon F70 (N70) recently for $650 Canadian >($417 U.S.). Mind you, things usually cost more here. >Jean-Paul

UPS charged me $104 "Brokerage Fee" for a package of about $600. I haven't tried FedEx. On the other hand, the Post Office charges about $5, apparently regardless of the value of the package. I can't complain about that.
The Post Office is a bit slower than the shipping companies, but if you absolutley must have it by tomorrow, try ordering it about 9 days ago.
Kevin

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] factory service

>>When the shutter of my 180.2.8 failed to step down early this year, the >>lens was sent back to Germany by the local distributor in Malaysia. The >>turn around time was 8 weeks. It was diagnosed and repaired (cracked >>shutter!), and had been functioning perfectly ever since. > >When I had my 300/4 apo worked on (shutter problem developed when shooting >in -15 C at 1/500 sec, but I bought this lens used), it also took exactly >8 weeks from the day I mailed it to the day I received it. As I called >Rollei service a number of times to verify it had been received, here's >why it takes so long... > >1 week (shipping via air from Japan to Germany) >4 weeks in German customs (!!!) >1 week to issue the repair estimate and for me to wire the currency in DM >1.5 weeks for the repair >0.5 weeks for the return shipping by air plus Japanese customs > >So clearly, the bottleneck is Germany customs. The person at Rollei service >said it usually takes 4-5 weeks to clear customs; if you want it faster, you >have to pay customs for special handling! > >When I had a problem w/ my first 6008i body under warranty (I needed it >in 1 month for a shoot), I guess Rollei paid for the quicker customs >processing and gave me rush-repair service, as I received it back in 3 >weeks! Anyways, there seems to be a consensus that Brauschweig factory >service in terms of quality/workmanship is very good. Now if only the >overseas repair facilities/support were as good, then Rollei could be >more competitive vs. Hasselblad. > >--Jim

I frequently have to send things to and from Germany in a hurry. I have found that the very best way is to use Federal Express since they do the customs brokering themselves, and can get it through in a day, two days at worst.
Also, it is VERY important to fill out the customs declaration properly, and mark the goods "TEMPORARY EXPORT -- FOR REPAIR ONLY. WILL NOT BE ENTERED INTO COMMERCE IN GERMANY." A customs broker I used to use when I was in the import business told me about this. It saves a lot of headaches.
As far as I am concerned Federal Express is the way to go. DHL comes in as a close second.
Bob

From: Glenn Edwards glenne@oakworks.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: HK camera store
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998
Does anyone have experience with the following dealer?
Does anyone have a favorite HK dealer?
Thanks,
Glenn
New Sankyo Camera Co Ltd
Shop G-19 Golden Mile Holiday Inn
50 Nathan Road
Kowloon, HONG KONG
Tel:(852)2367 0350, (852)2369 9491
Fax:(852)2739 2932
Email: newsanky@hkstar.com

RE: Importing Mercury Batteries:
From: tonyk@gtii.com (Tony Kekalos)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Mercury Batteries
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998
quokka@tnet.com.au wrote:

>they are banned in the US ... and Australia ... > >http://www.battery-box.co.uk/batt.html

Not really banned in the US...just can't manufacture them in the US. They can be ordered from Canada and the UK and clear US customs easily. On two separate occasions I've ordered Mercury batteries from Canada and received them without difficulties.
tk

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Douglas St.Denny saint@hkabc.net
Subject: RZ II prices in Hong Kong
Date: 1998-12-28
From previous post:
Just for fun, here are the current prices for a few NON grey market Mamiya RZ II pieces here in Hong Kong...(first price is HK$ in ( ) is US$ price figured at 1US$=7.8HK$)
SV package (90mm lens, body, wl finder 120 back) HK$13450 (US$1725) 180 WL lens HK$4940 (US$633) AE Prism II HK$4180 (US$536) 120 6x7 back HK$1900 (US$243) Polaroid back HK$1600 (US$205)
In response to emailed requests for information, Here is where I got the prices, and from whom I am buying my new RZ II. (I have no commercial interest in this shop, I'm just a customer and reccommend them as such)
The shop is "Kwong Tai" at 30A Stanley Street, Central, Hong Kong
telephone (852) 2522 8648 fax (852) 2810 6283

NO email address
Eric Mo is the man to speak with. Please tell him that Douglas sent you, maybe he'll give me some free film...:-)
Seriously, I have bought lots of stuff from him in the past three years. Including Elinchrome studio lighting and Contax G2 outfit (90, 35, 28, and 21mm lenses) He has always been the best for price in my experience. Eric is the best English speaker in the shop. The other guys do much better in Cantonese.
I have always bought "cash" price, and those are the prices I posted earlier. For credit card orders I would not be surprised if he added 3% or so. It seems to be the norm here when making credit card purchases.
FYI, grey market Mamiya was available, but would have only saved me about US$50 (total) on the whole deal, so I chose to buy "clean" from the authtorized distributer.
regards from sunny but polluted Hong Kong
Douglas

RE: Mamiya USA repairs on foreign bought Mamiyas imported into USA
From Medium Format Digest:
From: Douglas St.Denny saint@hkabc.net
Subject: Response to RZ II prices in Hong Kong
Date: 1998-12-29
Here's the response from Mamiya USA as answered in their RZ Forum.. (The complete question and answer are located at http://mamiya.com/ cgi-bin/WebX?13@^34342@.ee6b2c3 )
begin quote..."Douglas: Mamiya America can only provide warranty service on merchandise purchased from dealers within the USA. We are able to repair foreign bought equipment at our regular rates. If you move to the USA in the future, taking your possesions with you should not be a problem. However, you should always consult local officials to avoid any possible suprises as you are departing."...unquote
The first part seems clear. Mamiya USA will repair foreign bought Mamiya products, but a charge will be made. The second part seems a bit fuzzy. I wonder what "officials" they mean? Customs here in HK? Mamiya Distributer in HK? My wife?
In any case, in about 4 hours I'll have my new camera in my hands....
regards,
Douglas

From Medium Format Digest:
From: Greg G. Allen gallen@wesleyan.edu
Subject: Response to RZ II prices in Hong Kong
Date: 1999-01-12
I just got an email back from a store in Singapore called Cathay Photo. I had inquired about purchasing some Mamiya equipment for my RZ from them (I am in the US) and they said that this is not possible due to the "territorial rights," I assume, of Mamiya America (they did not tell me).
Does anyone have a source for ordering Mamiya equipment overseas and having it shipped back to the states?? Thanks for everything.
Greg

From: David Johnson david@spamu.xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: gray market vs USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998
Rod Miller wrote:

> Could someone explain the difference between a gray market (import) > camera product and a USA camera product. I assume that both are made by > the same company but, the only difference is the warranty? If I can get > a lens for $225 as a gray market item or $370 as a USA item. Do I > really need $144 of insurance? Or is there more of a difference than I > understand? > (If it is the same lens, how much can really go wrong with a lens?)

Plenty of things CAN go wrong with a lens. It is a very precise instrument. Hopefully, the manufacturer's quality control didn't let any bad ones through or none were damaged in transit.
I personally have bought over $2000 worth of grey market Nikkors and all have and still perform beautifully. I haven't had a problem yet. Only one is still under warranty. I have yet to need to invoke a warrany on any of my camera equipment.
--
David Johnson
XLNT
david@xlnt.com

Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999
From: Ian Parkes ianp@hk.super.net
Subject: F100 in Hong Kong [v04.n203/8]
The Nikon F100 is now widely available in Hong Kong.
The current price from my authorised Nikon dealer is HK$11,500 which is a shade under US$1,500.
When the F5 was introduced, he advised me to wait a couple of months as the initial price would drop. I assume the same will be true of the F100.

From: "Jim MacKenzie" dusyk&barlow;@cableregina.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Duties & Taxes: Info for Canadians buying from US Mailorder Companies
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998
David Foy wrote

>Thanks for the information on buying new. Perhaps I can add some >information. > >Used camera equipment from the US requires no payment of customs duties. If >you bring it in via UPS or FedEx, you'll undoubtedly have to pay a customs >broker, though, just for documenting it. The last time UPS stuck it to me, >the charge was $30 for brokerage. > >By far the best alternative is to bring it in via the post office. If the >value is over $30 (I think -- possibly $20) they will charge GST and a $5 >documentation charge.

That's only true if the goods are of American origin.
I've imported Nikon lenses (made in Japan) and had to pay a small amount of duty (can't recall but low single digits %).
Jim

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999
From: Eertmans Nicolas ne@spirou.eatchip.eurocontrol.be
Subject: RE:Nikon mail order shops in Europe [v04.n184/13] [v04.n187/28]
Massimo,
I just bought a 85mm f1.8 and before that, compared the price of different [mail order] shops.
Here it is (prices for the 85mm f/1.8, in BEF, divide by 40.34 to get it in EURO).

Typical French high street price: ~23000 Typical Belgian high street price: ~21750 Typical UK high street price: ~17298 http://callisto.worldonline.nl/~merceij 16735 http://www.unbeatable.co.uk: 14415 http://www.ny-camera.com (german): 14008 B&H; Nikon US: 12420 B&H; Grey: 10350

You can notice the wild variation, even within Europe... I personally bought from Unbeatable. They have shops in West Sussex (shops are called Capital Sound & Vision) where you can buy at the same prices.. and save the shipping costs. Items are grey import but I don't really care, especially for a lens.
If you add shipping and custom fees to B&H;, it comes really close to European prices. I wish I lived in the US... (well, for this, at least).
Hope this helps,
Nicolas.

rom: dont-use@this-address.com (H.Gunnarsson)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: What's the price tag of Hasselblad 501CM in Sweeden/Germany?
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999
Jason Li says...

> >Sweden: 23995 SEK = US$3034 > >Germany: 5569 DEM = US$3296 > > So it is pricier (in terms of the absolute dollar amount) over there than in > the United States. Maybe their median income is higher...

Not really, but the tax is... As far as Sweden goes the price you see above is with 25% VAT included.
--
Hekan Gunnarsson
Gvteborg/Gothenburg, Sweden
h dot gunnarsson at ebox dot tninet dot se

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999
From: Roger Eritja eritja@virtualbaix.com
Subject: Re: web order from Italy [v04.n208/15] [v04.n212/10]
Caro Vincenzo,
I've been facing the same issue from Barcelona in Catalonia (Spain) where I live. I had been buying some gear to B+H when I travelled to NYC in 1997, with a huge saving. Later in 1998 I was interested in buying from home, but nobody was able to figure import taxes (not even the custom officers). Finally I decided fifteen days ago to purchase a 24 mm f:2.8AFD, just to test the system. The parcel arrived in 4 working days (FedEx International Priority, which I strongly recommend you).
The Custom automatically charged me the import fee: 3.2% on the net, plus 16% IVA (=VAT).

So the total cost of the operation was: 1. Price (Int'nal warranty) US$ 290 2. Shipping FedEx Priority 4 days 52.50 3. Spanish custom tax: 3.2% on (1) 9.3 4. Spanish VAT: 16% on (1+3) 48 TOTAL US$ 399.9

The cost of that lens in Spain, even in the cheapest retail store, is US$ 546. So the savings are (in this case; other items are not this worth) of 27%. Could be further increased to 30-32% by buying greymarket, buying several items, and/or using parcel post when delivery time is not an issue. As we're now gathered in CE I assume that the import tax in Italy might be the same of Spain, however, it'll be worth to ask it to the Italian customs.
HTH
Roger
- --
Roger Eritja (eritja@virtualbaix.com)

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Frederick Wong fwong@agsm.unsw.edu.au
[1] Re: Hong Kong
Date: Sat Feb 06 1999
Hi Hubris, The only source I know where you can get a quote thro' email is

The New Sankyo Camera Co. via
newsanky@pop.hkstar.com
Address to Tony.
This company actually does overseas shipping. I obtained quotes on 2 occasions but I have not bought anything from them.
MY GUESS is that their prices are not the lowest you may obtain if you shop around in person in Hong Kong. But their quotes should give you a rough idea of what you expect to pay. Don't pay more than the quotes.
Good luck and happy shopping.
Regards,
Frederick Wong
(Hong Kong citizen, now in Australia)

[Ed. note: see Hong Kong - Samsung for list of Hong Kong shops etc.]
rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: ckli@hk.super.net (Chris LI)
[1] Re: Bought MF from Tin Cheung? (Hong Kong)
Date: Thu Feb 11 1999
junk@junk.COM wrote:
Try Cameron Camera if you are interested in Hasselblad equipment. The address can be found in http://www.shriro.com.

>If you have bought a MF camera from Tin Cheung Camera in >Hong Kong, were they reliable and prompt? If buying from >the US by mail order, does one have to pay customs duties? > >Thanks for any info, > >- Ihtisham Kabir >kabir@sun.com > >ps, they quote excellent prices on Rolleiflex and Hasselblad. >

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: Re: web order from Italy [v04.n208/15] [v04.n214/5]
I am writing to ask some informations to italian customers who buy to net shops like B&H.; I would like to know if taxes like IVA are applied to stuff coming from abroad, for istance USA.
With all due respect, you should ask me, not the Digest. No tax is added to any order shipped out of NY State. Whether you will incur duty, Customs fees or impolrt taxes depends on the laws of your individual country. We urge you to consult your local government office before ordering.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "visions" visions@zeelandnet.nl
[1] Re: Mamiya 7 dealers in Asia
Date: Wed Feb 17 1999
New Sankyo Camera Co Ltd
Shop G-19 Golden Mile Holiday Inn
50 Nathan Road
Kowloon, HONG KONG
Tel:(852)2367 0350, (852)2369 9491
Fax:(852)2739 2932

>I've been reading about low prices for the Mamiya 7 and 7-II sold in >Japan, HK and Singapore. Can someone post some asian dealers names >and numbers (who will ship to the US)?

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: removeNOSPAMtoreply kahheng@pacific.net.sg
[1] Re: Mamiya 7 dealers in Asia
Date: Fri Feb 19 1999
Try:
Singapore:
Cathay Photo Store
http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg

write for a quote - http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/quote.html
see http://photo.net/neighbor/ for what some people think of Cathay.
A few people in the US have bought Mamiya stuff from them. I am in Singapore, and I can vouch for their integrity.
HongKong:
Tin Cheung
see my post in photo.net Neighbour to Neighbour for the full address
http://www.centrepoint.com.sg/cp-dirlist.html
Jonathan Murray

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999
From: "Andrew Alexander Malcolm, Dr" andy@gintic.gov.sg
Subject: Re. Nikon Shopping in Singapore [v04.n277/16] [v04.n280/2]
Jean Touchette asked about shopping for Nikon gear in Singapore ...
Although this information is available in the archives since I have previously posted it, here it is again.
My personal preference based on service, stock, knowledge and attitude is Gope's Foto and Film Pte Ltd
Tanglin Shopping Centre
Tanglin Road
#03-10/20/21
Tel. 737 2633 Fax. 738 5789
The most well-known store (with very good stock and knowledge) is Cathay Photo Store Pte Ltd
Penisula Plaza
109 North Bridge Road
#01-07/08
Tel. 337 4274 Fax. 339 3374
cathayph@pacific.net.sg
http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg

They will respond to requests for prices by email (takes a day or two).
There are several stores in the Penisula Plaza area offering secondhand gear.
Although I don't have prices for the gear Jean asked about (but I believe the 35-70 f/2.8 is around $800), here are some examples of prices valid Feb 99 in Sing $;

F5 $3200 F100 $2550 MB-15 $200 F90x $1280 MB-10 $175 F60 $420 AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 $830 AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 $1330 AFS Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 $3000 AF Zoom-Nikkor 20-35 f/2.8 $2240 AF Nikkor 300mm f/4 IF-ED $1290 AFS Nikkor 300mm f/2.8 IF-ED $7000 AF Nikkor 600mm f/4 $12500 AF Fisheye-Nikkor 16mm f/2.8 $900 Nikon 52mm Circular Polariser $86 Nikon 62mm Circular Polariser $135 Nikon 77mm Circ. Polariser $240

You need to add 3% tax, but this can be refunded at the airport for visitors. Not too sure of the procedure, but requires a form from the shop and more paperwork at the airport.
Hope this proves useful,
Andy Malcolm
Dr. Andrew A. Malcolm
Machine Vision & Sensors Group
Gintic Institute of Manufacturing Technology
71 Nanyang Drive, Singapore 638075
Tel (65) 793 8295 Fax (65) 791 6377
Email andy@gintic.gov.sg mailto:andy@gintic.gov.sg
Web http://england.gintic.gov.sg:8000

From: rgiridhar@asiansources.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Canon Equipment Prices in Hong Kong
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999
Here are some equipment prices that I got from a Hong Kong retailer. Please note these prices are quoted as net cash price only, and do not include insurance and freight.
The currency conversion rate is US$1= HK$7.73

* Canon EOS 50E QD body only (Elan IIe) HK$3470 (with international warranty) HK$2960 (No warranty) * Canon EOS 500N QD body only (Rebel G) HK$2070 (with international warranty) HK$1960 (No warranty) * Canon EF 2x Extender/Teleconverter HK$1960 (with intl warranty) HK$1720 (no warranty) * Canon EF 17-35mm/f2.8L USM zoom lens HK$7600 (no warranty) HK$8200 (with intl warranty) * Canon EF 28-70mm/f2.8L USM zoom lens HK$7100 (no warranty) HK$8940 (with intl warranty) * Canon EF 70-200mm/f2.8L USM zoom lens HK$8400 (no warranty) HK$8950 (with intl warranty)

Contact New Sankyo Camera Co Ltd, Hong Kong (newsanky@hkstar.com) if you need further information, quotes or shipping costs. Address your mail to Tony or Wilson.
Hope this info is of use to anyone planning to shop for equipment in Hong Kong.
Cheers
Giridhar

From: "CM International" sales@cm-international.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.misc
Subject: Korean professional photo equipment
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999
We are a manufacturer producing professional photo equipment, and an exporter dealing in photo related products from Korea into worldwide. Please visit our website at http://www.cm-international.com We are a manufacturer producing professional photo equipment, and an exporter dealing in photo related products from Korea into worldwide. Please visit our website at http://www.cm-international.com for more details.

[Ed. note: Some folks report problems with getting some Hong Kong stores to ship Mamiya trademarked products direct to them in the USA.
This "problem" does not seem to be related to any legal restrictions on the Chinese side, since other Hong Kong stores are happily selling and shipping to the USA just as in the past.
The store(s) claim the problem is with trademark restrictions on the U.S.A. side that they are "honoring".
As we have seen above, there isn't and hasn't been any U.S. customs restriction on the import of single trademarked items for personal use, under the various exemptions cited in the U.S. Customs info cited above.
So there isn't any apparent U.S. based restriction to "honor" in the shipping of single items to individuals for their personal use, as I understand the U.S. Customs Office position. So if your Hong Kong store refused to ship, you can cite the above materials or ask them to verify these details with the Hong Kong U.S. consulate et. cet. And you can always suggest you will have to take your business to one of their competitors ;-). If worse comes to worse, consider using a trans-shipping service or local agent...

[Ed. note: possible trans-shipping service to USA? ... caveat emptor!]
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999
From: "Douglas St.Denny" saint@hkabc.net
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: HK prices for stuff.
Hiya Bob,
I can pack and ship Mamiya stuff. I live in HK and have a small book shop. Of course I'd like to make something on the deal too. I'll ask if there is a problem with Kwong Tai Shop shipping directly. This is the first I've heard of anyone in HK refusing to ship a legally sold item to the USA. Do you have names available of stores that refused?
FYI I just got prices on the following for a friend who asked me:
all in HK$ (one US$= about 7.75HK$)
Pentax 635 w/75mm lens and 120 back HK$16200
Mamiya 645 SV pack II HK$10180
Pentax 67 w/90mm (not "normal")TTL finder HK$16650
regards,
Douglas

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999
From: David Freedman dpfreedman@worldnet.att.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Purchase in Hong Kong
Hello Kevin;
My transaction with New Sankyo was smooth as silk but it was quite a while ago. I dealt with someone named Wilson Cheung (?). I purchased a complete Mamiya 6 outfit my first visit and subsequently 50mm and 250mm lenses for my Mamiya RZ67. Prices at the time were indeed 40+% less than New York prices. The store seemed pretty sleazy like most of the other Nathan Road vicinity stores but they came through exactly as promised. In fact, with the Mamiya 6 equipment, I had called first from Tokyo to confirm the order and make sure they would have everything available when I arrived. A few weeks later when I walked into the store, Wilson reached behind the counter for a shopping bag that contained everything I had ordered. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised.
I paid for everything by credit card even though that increased the cost by 3%. It's well worth the added protection.
I haven't been back to New Sankyo for a very long so I'm not really in a position to vouch for them and their business practices today. I would also add that my favorite shop in Hong Kong is Cameron Photo behind the Hyatt hotel. They are very, very reliable and deal in higher end equipment (eg Hasselblad, Leica, Linhof, etc.) exclusively. I don't know if Mr. Chin handles Mamiya but it would well worth inquiring prior to committing to New Sankyo.
Finally (this may not apply to you): I was told that I was very lucky regarding the importation of Mamiya equipment into the US. Apparently, Mamiya is one of the very few protected trademarks remaining. Customs at the port of entry can require that the Mamiya name be removed from every piece of equipment before it will be allowed into the US. I wasn't aware of this at the time but had no trouble bringing it in. And yes, I did declare everything on my customs form.
I'd be interested to hear how things work out for you. I'm thinking of paying another visit to HKG in the near future.
Regards,
Dave F.
...

Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999
From: "Dr. Joseph Yao" yaojkfdr@netvigator.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Purchase in Hong Kong
David & Kevin,
Mr. Chin of Cameron Photo does handle Mamiya equipment. In addition to my Hasselblad, I also got a Mamiya 7 and lenses from him at a very good price.
Regards,
Joseph

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999
From: Dirk-Roger Schmitt Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@DLR.DE
Subject: [Rollei] Of topic:] Rollei watches and similar junk
I think is more due to the trademark view of the European Union than due to the German customs.
The Euopean Union's trademark view is getting crazy. So for example it is a violation of the European Union's trademark views if a free dealer imports goods which are not intended to be sold in Europe, meaning grey marked products. Some months ago there was a law suit from Chrysler against a German dealer importing Chrysler cars he has legally bought from US Chrysler dealers. The German dealer violated the Chrysler trademark rights and had to pay money to Chrysler and to stop the import.
This new tradmark policy was established say one or two years ago after pressure of the big companies, but in my opinion it is against the right of free trade!
Greetings
Dirk
you wrote:

>> I wonder if the street vendors in NYC's Chinatown are now selling fake >>Rollei watches. 12 years ago you could get a fake Rolex Submariner for $45. >> >>R. J. Bender ( A Nikon, Mamiya and Rollei user. )

From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: grey market lenses
Date: 28 Jan 1999
It's entirely possible that lenses sold in different markets are subject to different quality specifications...
Not the case. Lenses come off the assembly line one after the other and are inspected BEFORE their eventual fate and destination is determined.
It is not the case that some lab-coated chaps sit before two bins and toss the select lenses into the "USA" bin and the also-rans into the "grey."
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
henryp@bhphotovideo.com

From: "Gary Wang" garypix@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Price of F5 in Hong Kong
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999
I was in HK last month the price for an F5 is arounc $1500 to $1600.
Gary
--
Gary Wang Photography
garypix@earthlink.net

From: Toshihiko Oka aaaam306@kcat.zaq.ne.jp
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Contax 645 prices in Japan
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999
Chris Lee wrote:

> Does anybody know the street prices for the following items in Japan? > Contax 645 body > Planar T* 80/2 > APO-Makro Planar T* 120/4 > Or any Contax 645 kits.

The prices will be

body : 428,000 yen P80/2 : 170,000 yen AMP 120/4 : 270,000 yen

Street prices will be about 80% of these.
Toshi, Osaka, Japan

From: chris@somewhere.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Hong Kong & Canon
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999
Tsim Sha Tsui can be expensive - Mong Kok and Stanley St seem to get most of the recommendations from people here. There is a small arcade on Kimberly Rd (in TST East) that has some apparently reasonable second hand places.
My normal shop is Wing Shing Photo Supplies, 57 Sai Yeung Choi Street, Mong Kok (exit D from Mong Kok MTR station).
Prices are about the same as for US mail order places.

From: Frederick Wong fwong@agsm.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Hong Kong & Canon
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999
The price of Canon 50E /ElanIIe as of September,1998 when I was in Hong Kong, was HK$3450. Grab one, Mike. You don't have to think, do you? (US$1 = HK$7.8). BTW, there is no shop which is particularly good at selling Canon, in terms of variety, knowledge or price. If it is 'good', whatever that may mean, it will equally be good at Pentax, Nikon, etc. as well.
Yes, Tsim Sha Tsui is for tourists, but Mong Kok is for local residents. I'll explain this later. A SLIGHTLY more expensive place is Central in the Hong Kong Island, but cheaper than in Tsim Sha Tsui, and HONEST. I used to buy nearly all my gear there, but that was more 8 years ago when I was still residing in Hong Kong.
Man Shing used to be a reliable store, but seems not anymore more. In September last year there, I was buying a camera bag, and films. I asked for Kodak T400CN, and the price was HK$25. I remarked that overseas, it was very expensive -- that was the mistake I made. The next item, a 123A battery cost HK$70. I later found that it should be $25, at most $30. I'll never go to Man Shing on my next trip. (I am a Chinese HK resident, and the guy in Man Sing didn't know I came overseas until I made my 'stupid' remark.)
Good luck Mike, and happy shopping.
Regards,
Frederick Wong

From: rgiridhar@asiansources.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Hong Kong & Canon
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999
Hi Mike:
I recently bought the Canon 50E QD from Hong Kong, two L lenses and an array of filters. The shops I got the stuff from are:
I paid about USD 420 for the camera body (with battery and strap) and international warranty. The camera is cheaper if you buy it without the warranty.
In Hong Kong, I would advise you to deal with only the following shops:
Wing Shing Photo Supplies
Sai Yeung Choi Street
Mongkok, Kowloon
(Very close to Mongkok MTR station exit)

Man Shing
106, Tung Choi Street
Mongkok, Kowloon
Tel: 2396-2996, 23956684
(Both shops are about a block away from each other, and the owners are related to each other.)
Both stores have fixed prices (no bargaining), genuine goods, good stocking, and reasonably helpful attitude. You will find that all informed Hong Kong photo enthusiasts shop here! These stores accept credit cards, but they charge you an additional 2% transaction fee (they inform you in advance about it.) Both stores are open from 10AM to 9PM.
If you need more info, feel free to email me directly.
Giridhar
rgiridhar@asiansources.com

From: chris@somewhere.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Hong Kong.
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999
My normal shop is Wing Shing Photo Supplies, 57 Sai Yeung Choi Street, Mong Kok (exit D from Mong Kok MTR station).

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999
From: "Patricio Murphy" murphy@cvtci.com.ar
Subject: Nikon gear very expensive in Argentina [v04.n311/4]
Hello everybody!
It's not my intention to promote any C vs N war, just comment something regarding Nikon's policy in my country.
Yesterday I did two things related to this issue:
1- Complained to the importer because it doesn't seem logical to me paying three times B&H; prices: it's cheaper for me to order from USA, pay all the taxes, plus shipping, than taking a bus and buying in my city. His answer was that they pay 50% duties, plus 23.5% in taxes.
2- Went downtown to do dome researching on the subject.
What I saw:
1- The Nikon F50 I payed u$s400 in London retails here u$s850 (!!!). But the Canon EOS500 that went for more or less the same in London, you can get it here for u$s550. I saw the F5 body going for u$s3600...
2- Sigma lenses are in average 50% more expensive than in USA, but it's still cheaper (or almost the same) than buying mail order from B&H.; The same holds true for Tokina and Tamron.
My conclusions:
1- Being the taxes equal to any importer, the only thing that comes to my mind is that Nikon is not doing a good job at promoting their stuff, at least the "consumer grade" stuff. Or..
2- Both the importer *and* Nikon think that all us Nikon users are snobs that will pay whatever they charge as long as we see Nikon written somewhere..
3- I always wanted to buy a Nikon, and I did. But should I have to buy *here*, I should have to go Canon, no matter what I like.
Is this equal in other "peripheric" countries? Good bye, and thanks for all the info you share every digest!
Patricio Murphy
murphy@cvtci.com.ar
ICQ 19416686

From: jiversen@pacific.net.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Buying stuff in Singapur?
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999

> Hi there, > > in the end of March I will stay some 5 hours at Singapur airport when flying > back from Australia to Germany. Some people recommended to use this > opportunity to buy a lense for my camera (EOS 50e). I bought my camera with > a 28-105 USM lense. My questions: > > - Any recommendations what lense to buy and how much money to spend? > - About buying in Singapur in general (will I get proper quality at the > airport? what about the warranty?) > > any hints are welcome,thx!

I live in Singapore and would not dream of buying any photo things in the airport because most items including photo things are duty free everywhere anyway and the airport prices (obviously) are higher than in the city. But if you have no option to go to the city I think you should buy in the airport if you think you can save money compared to your where you live. The quality should be fine and I would imagine you will have no problems in getting international warranties on the products. But make sure you ask first. Anyway the taxi ride to the city is only 20-30 minutes, so why not check out, go to the city and get some experience before you continue. You may want to visit, Cathay Photo, Ruby Photo or 2-3 others in Peninsula Plaza and Peninsula Shopping Centre - they are all within a 50 metre radius. In Coleman Street. In the city centre. 1 km from Raffles Hotel, Every taxi driver in town will know. If you are there during the day why not?
As to what lens you should buy. Well, what do you want to photograph?
Rgds
John Iversen

[Ed. note: it isn't always cheaper in the USA or Japan or Hong Kong ;-)]

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999
From: Larry Cuffe larry@melanie.ucd.ie
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Grey Market Kodak Film
While in northern Nepal four days walk from the nearest road the guy I was climbing with ran out of film for his new super duper bought for the trip APS camera we hunted around in the local vilage and eventualy traked down some film In date at $3.00 a roll. this contrasted nicely with the price of 7 pounds sterling say 10-11 dollars us that he had paid for aps film in the duty free in heathrow london on the way out. Our Analysis was that the major cost of film is not production which is just injection mold some plastic and a fancy paint machine for coating the diferent layers but in the distribution and middle men -- Which would be very much reduced in a third world country.
Larry Cuffe

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999
From: "Isaac Boy de Souza" isaacboy@bhnet.com.br
Subject: Re: High prices in Argentina [v04.n312/23] [v04.n314/15]
Hello Patricio, Friedrich and Nikon fellows,
From: "Patricio Murphy" murphy@cvtci.com.ar
snip..
1- The Nikon F50 I payed u$s400 in London retails here u$s850 (!!!). But the Canon EOS500 that went for more or less the same in London, you can get it here for u$s550. I saw the F5 body going for u$s3600...
2- Sigma lenses are in average 50% more expensive than in USA, but it's still cheaper (or almost the same) than buying mail order from B&H.; The same holds true for Tokina and Tamron.
snip..
Is this equal in other "peripheric" countries?
Things are no different in Brazil also. Retailers blame on taxes also and there is the same big difference between Nikon and Canon prices, that is, given a price in the US, Canon will probably cost up to twice as much, and Nikon about 3 times as much. But as Friedrich has pointed out, Canon has a branch in Brazil and cameras are not their most important activity here. Nikon has an "official importer and distributor".
Very recently I could see an F70 in a couple (a couple indeed) of stores in my city (3rd largest in the country, 2 million inhabitants). For professional cameras or any lens other than the plastic 35-80mm, you should place an order in the only "authorized" store in town (so you cannot try one in the store). Even in Sco Paulo and Rio de Janeiro you may find "ready to buy" equipment in just a few stores. And BTW I have never seen Tamron or Tokina lens here, but I have seen some consumer grade Sigmas.
It's funny to see that the guys in stores consider an F70 as a *real professional* camera, and they think I am very rich when I say I own one as an amateur...
Here some prices, I have checked this week:
F70 + 35-80mm => US$ 1.135,00
24-50/f3.3-4 => US$ 758,00
Accessories are not *so* expensive: I bought an SC-17 for US$110,00 yesterday.
With prices like this it's no surprise that B&H; has a toll free number for Brazilian customers and Portuguese speaking attendants. Adding taxes and shipping the price won't even double, so it's a great deal to place a mail order.
Regards,
Isaac Boy

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Bruce Shu bshu@csi.com
[1] Re: I'm already torn ...
Date: Mon Mar 29 1999
Cathay Pacific Airways has a deal going. For US$999 you can go to any or all of 16 Asian cities within 31 days, including Tokyo and Hong Kong. See www.cathay-usa.com. How much is an Mamiya 7 in the USA?
Sailor wrote:

> How much does the ticket cost? I guess it's round-trip if I want to come back > :-) > > Howie

From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
[1] Re: Grey Market Questions
Date: Tue Mar 30 1999
1) I understand that grey market products come without USA warranty; the dealer provides warranty service; and God only knows where the product is sent for service and how long it might take. Is that correct?
Please start by reading http://www.bhphotovideo.com/greymkt.html "Grey market" items do come sans USA warranty. Reputable dealers offer their own warranty. Ours is one (1) year. Whether or not you can rely on the dealer's service is in part a reflection on whether or not you can rely on the dealer. If your dealer's reliable about everything else, perhaps he's also reliable about this.
2) What kind of cost savings (%) should I expect before considering buying grey market? E.g., don't buy unless price is XX% below USA warranty price.
I don't think there's a formula per se and the "grey" vs "USA" price variation differs from item to item. It's your budget.
3) Are features different from the USA version?>
Sometimes. The auxiliary power port on the Nikon SB-28 varies in shape from "grey" to USA, and there are three diffferences between the "grey EOS-5 and the "USA" EOS-A2E, but generally they're the same item, particularly lenses.
4) Do you get all manuals? IN ENGLISH?>
Yes.
5) Any reasons to NOT buy grey market?
Several. With Nikon, for instance, their IX and D-AF lenses are warranted for five (5) years; "grey" for one (1). The USA F5 is warranted for three (3) years. Also, some importers, notably Nikon, HPMarketing, and Bogen (Metz, Manfrotto, Gitzo, Gossen, etc) have stated repeatedly they'll never knowingly work on a "grey" item. Others (notably Canon USA) do warranty work on "grey" items as long as you can prove date of purchase and continue to work on them after the warranty year's over for parts + labor.
I hope this helps. Let me know if there's any area which requires forther expansion.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
henryp@bhphotovideo.com

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: danksta@ns.sympatico.ca (Terry Danks)
[1] Re: Buying equipment for use in Canada
Date: Tue Mar 30 1999
On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:18:11 -0700, tbuckley@uvic.ca (Tom Buckley) wrote:

>lemon@lime.org (lemonade) wrote: > >> In article <36ff1633.0@nemo.idirect.com>, "LoneGuard" >> wrote: >> >> > I've been wondering if there is duty on equipment bought from a user in the >> > US and sent to Canada. For instance, purchases from eBay? From a store like >> > B& H? >> > It's bad enough with the current exchange between the US and CanBuck :) >> > Do I have to pay local taxes (meaning local state taxes) if the equipment is >> > headed for Canada. >> > >[snip] However, if you are a Canadian >buyer, you are responsible for GST, even if you have bought something from >an individual in the U.S.(I know it seems incredible)! My experience is >that you will always be billed GST if you are shipped something from the >USA via courier (UPS and FEDEX). They may also charge a brokerage fee. >[snip] > >Provincial sales taxes don't apply. > >As far as I can tell, there is no Canadian duty on used camera stuff. >However, you might want to check with customs if you are buying an exotic, >big ticket item.

I've posted about this before. It seems the law either differs or, more likely, seems to be applied differently from one part of Canada to another.
I have bought at ebay. I was charged BOTH GST and PST!!!! (Emphasis supplied out of frustration as so many others say they pay GST only.) More precisely, I was charged "HST" or harmonized GST plus PST. At any any rate my tax rate on the purchase was 15%, the going rate for HST in NS.
Incidentally, this is true of inter-provincial sales too. No more ordering from Toronto to avoid the PST of your province of residence. That was true in "the good ole days" but the taxman is smarter and more voracious in these mean times.
I also inquired of customs when I wished to buy a $5000 lens in the US and personally carry it back to Canada. I was to be assessed the combined HST applicable to my province of residence even though I was reentering Canada in Alberta. There was no legal way to avoid paying this tax AT THE BORDER.
So: Perhaps I am just a very unlucky person but I feel some Canadian folks here are giving information based on "old" practices. It is very hard to escape taxes these days.
Incidentally, I REFUSE to accept ANY courier service from the states, UPS included. The brokerage fees are ridiculous! I INSIST on USPS and pay only the mandatory $5 charge levied by the post office. Slower? Obviously but I will not do it any other way after being gouged by UPS.
Terry Danks
Nova Scotia
Canada
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/danksta/home.htm

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: lemon@lime.org (lemonade)
[1] Re: Buying equipment for use in Canada
Date: Tue Mar 30 1999
danksta@ns.sympatico.ca (Terry Danks) wrote:

> I have bought at ebay. I was charged BOTH GST and PST!!!! (Emphasis

The shipper has to prepare the package for shipment across the border properly. On used equipment, you should pay NEITHER. New, yes, used, no.

> Incidentally, this is true of inter-provincial sales too. No more > ordering from Toronto to avoid the PST of your province of residence.

This may depend on your province. It certainly isn't true of Quebec, although I'm sure they want the money. They can only keep track of this through the required GST payment.

> Incidentally, I REFUSE to accept ANY courier service from the states, > UPS included. The brokerage fees are ridiculous! I INSIST on USPS and

UPS ground (and e.g. Purolator ground) is the only one that charges brokerage fees. I believe although I am not sure, that UPS air does not charge brokerage fees; but UPS are impossible anyway, so no reason to use them. Federal Express will not charge any brokerage fees, and their International Economy fare can be considered reasonable.
--

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Shravan Rao shravan@nortelnetworks.com
[1] Re: Buying equipment for use in Canada
Date: Tue Mar 30 1999
Terry Danks wrote:

> I have bought at ebay. I was charged BOTH GST and PST!!!! (Emphasis > supplied out of frustration as so many others say they pay GST only.) > More precisely, I was charged "HST" or harmonized GST plus PST. At any > any rate my tax rate on the purchase was 15%, the going rate for HST > in NS. > Incidentally, this is true of inter-provincial sales too. No more > ordering from Toronto to avoid the PST of your province of residence. > That was true in "the good ole days" but the taxman is smarter and > more voracious in these mean times.

Having recently (2 weeks back) ordered and received _new_ equipment from B&H;, I can confirm that there is only a GST component (7%) that needs to be paid. Oh yes, one is expected to pay, in good faith, the PST part to the provincial government on such purchases, but I am yet to come across someone who actually does that.
However, you are correct in that starting April 1st (or it may be the 16th), there is a PST part that needs to be paid for across-the-border-purchases. Also, gone are the days (or it will soon be, starting April) when one paid only the GST for inter-provincial sales. The only options left are to move to the US or at least to Alberta :-)
- Shravan

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "W Scott Elliot" selliot@direct.ca
[1] Re: Buying equipment for use in Canada
Date: Tue Mar 30 1999
When the GST was introduced, discussions were made with the provinces to try to harmonize it with the provincial sales tax. No go at that time, but some of the provinces have subsequently agreed. Nova Scotia where Terry lives was one of the first. There is no more separate GST or PST, just a harmonized HST. Customs and excise is responsible for collection of GST/HST on imports. I believe that Ontario has now signed the collection agreement effective April 1. Alberta never will sign and I don't know where the other provinces stand. Since the HST is the same as GST, any registered vendor is required to charge it on inter-provincial sales.
If you read the PST legislation for most of the provinces, you were probably supposed to pay PST on most items brought into the province. Since there was no mechanism for collection, payment was based on the honesty of the citizens and the hope that they knew they were supposed to pay.
Although this may seem a pain to the customers, it is really only a fair break to Canadian stores. It is difficult enough for them to compete with US discount prices without having the government give an extra 7% or 8% discount by not charging PST. Although we may not like it, at least now the Canadian retailers have a fair chance to compete with the Americans.
Scott

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Michael DeKelver" [1] Re: Buying equipment for use in Canada
Date: Wed Mar 31 1999
Shravan Rao wrote

>I beg to differ. Consider the local >and B&H; price (including S&H;) for the Canon 28-70L, 70-200L, 300/4L, >EOS-1n, EF 100/2.8 macro, EF 1.4x or EF 2.0x teleconverters and it is >obvious. If you want more proof, consider the Canon or Nikon 28-105,

Micro-Nikkor 105 AF-D f/2.8, S&H; is $542.20 US from B&H.; Locally, it would cost me $1,050 plus 15% taxes (Ontario PST + GST). I think I saved $400 :-)
I told my local dealer this, and that I will continue to consider alternatives at the expense of service.
Michael DeKelver
michaeldATnewforceDOTca

From: Peggy & Steve pyh-mfw@megsinet.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: GRAY MARKET CAMERA WARRANTIES
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999
Off the topic, over the years, I have bought numerous items from oversea (Hong Kong) including camera, Laser Disc player, Hi Fi, mostly electronics. These are supposed to be grey market merchandise when on US soil, never got a problem with the electronics, to date, everything runs as good as brand new. The bottom line is, it is the quality of the product from a company that matters, not the warranty.

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Brad The Dog" Brad_The_Dog@prodigy.net
[4] Re: why so much cheaper overseas? Re
+ Mamiya 7 - why so much $$$ ???
Date: Mon May 03 1999
...
What is grey market equipment in the USA is also domestic mamiya equipment in Japan. they don't have the massive mark-up and tariff's that occurr when the products are imported. I took a trip to Japan a few years back when I was getting ready to buy my rb67, and saved enough on it and the 6 lenses i bought that it paid for my trip in full and then some. I saved over $8500. I had an international warranty, and could prove I bought them overseas i.e. the original sales reciept so the warranty was valid at all mamiya authorized service centers. If you ship it back to the states, I am not sure if it still works this way, via federal express or ups you can get around paying duty etc on it.

Date: Sun, 02 May 1999
From: Andre Calciu a.calciu@anent.com
To: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@hermes.seas.smu.edu
Subject: Re: pay the 3% duty..? duty percent is higher
actually, the duty on cameras varies with the type and model. it can be easily 6, 8 or more per cent and components/parts/accessories are taxed even higher. when checking the customs rate tables you have to read carefully the tables because the government does not list cameras in a single place. they are scattered across numerous SIC code sections and you have to look them up carefully. as a matter of fact, you may even have to get FCC clearance begfore bringing some electronic cameras into the country.
andre

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999
From: "Edmund-Tan Ann-Wen (r40248)" r40248@email.sps.mot.com
Subject: [BRONICA] Bronica Prices in US!
Hi guys,
I have been looking at all the prices for new bronica stuff over the web, and used stores from the US, and I find the prices very high. Here in Singapore (where I stay), the prices are much lower. Eg a brand new SQAi back is approx US$230. a new PS 40/4 is approx US$850. Wonder why the prices in US are so high!
Regards,

Date: Wed, 19 May 1999
From: "Edmund-Tan Ann-Wen (r40248)" r40248@email.sps.mot.com
Subject: [BRONICA] A bunch of questions...
Hi Tim,
If you want a good price for new Bronny's, and if you're real near Singapore, then I do recommend Singapore. The agent here is slashing the prices down tremendously, you can get cool quotes for new ETRSi, SQAi, GS-1 from Cathay Photo (email : cathayph@pacific.net.sg). I personally bought a 2nd hand SQA with 200/4.5 S lens, and I have seen a used GS-1 with 120 back,WLF and 100/3.5 PG lens for approx S$1200 (about US$800!).
My SQA does NOT have a self timer and don't think the rest will have. The long exposure (T) is pretty troublesome as it isn't part of the shutter speeds, and is at the bottom of the lens, but still usable!!
SCA is the Metz thing for TTL flash. All can take normal flashes, but only the ETRSI,SQAi and GS-1 can do TTL flash, but they will need the correct SCA adaptor and a Metz Flash.
The ETRS or ETRSi in Singapore is really cheap (2nd hand). The SQAi and GS-1 prices are pretty close. Only the ETRS series have real zooms. The SQ series does have a limited supply of zooms supplied by Schenider and are really expensive and big!! I won't recommend a zoom, I find 2 or 3 prime lens will be sufficient for most of what I will want to do.
A non-metered finder is a good choice if $ is the issue. However, for ETRSi, and doing portriats, then vertical shots with WLF will be a real pain (not sure if it's at all possible!).
Tamron has a website with bronny stuff inside, do check it out.
I don't feel my SQA eat batteries, it's be in there for quite a while and is still working!!! I find the 4LR44/4SR44/PX28 quite easy to find in Singapore and Malaysia.
Do ask if I missed out anything or if more details are needed.
Regards,

[Ed. note: a growing number of international transactions and camera price (new/used) arbitrage is going on internationally via EBAY (http://www.ebay.com) and other online auctions and sources, e.g.:]
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999
From: Ralph Johnston/Linda Sherman copley@ma.ultranet.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: 120 Processing, Kiev 88
...

I am a new owner of a Kiev 88, with the idea that if I like it, I will upgrade to a Hasselblad. I bit on a Dutch auction on E-Bay and got the camera for $305 plus $35 shipping from China. It worked out well, and I got the camera in just four weeks after closing. Most of the time was for getting the international money shipped out of the St. Louis post office.
...

From: "Aussie Bob" blambert at acay dot com dot au
Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
Subject: Re: Mail order slide film - where?
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999
I have been very impressed with www.filmshop.com in the USA. I live in Australia and get my film from them with both good prices and excellent delivery. The cost of their freight is a lot less than I was quoted when I first looked at buying on the web.
--
Cheers from down under
Aussie Bob

From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: markup on Nikon lenses
Date: 20 May 1999
Huge companies such as B&H; actually buy their equipment from the factory in Japan. They ship it over by their own means and buy huge quantities at a time.
And you learned this by working here WHEN ?!?
We buy Nikon products with the Nikon USA warranty from Nikon USA. We obtain "grey market" products from various third-party vendors. We DO NOT buy direct from Nikon in Japan.

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
henryp@bhphotovideo.com

From: rabaste@aol.com (RABASTE)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya America A Joke
Date: 20 May 1999
Don't worry Steve!
The dealer net includes enough profit for both. An RZ ProII package street price is $2999 and dealer net is $2249. When you can buy an entire computer system for a $1000 retail, it certainly doesn't cost $400 to put an RZ together. When you buy at dealer cost you are not entitled to get the rebates either. Then if you bought your camera at Calumet, you'll go back to buy your film and other stuff too! That's what's I call smart business! Of course I wish they'd charge actual cost + shipping + 10% but I'd be dreaming... :o)))))
Bye!
Michel

>>I saw that Mamiya was going to be in town >>at the local Calumet store. They were paying all sales tax (which would >>have bee almost $700) and they sold equipment at dealers cost. > >Gee, I wonder how the people at Calumet felt about that? > > **** steve ****

From: "S. Gareth Ingram" sgingram@venus.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya America A JOKE
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 Organization: University of Waterloo
Dave C wrote:

> "S. Gareth Ingram" wrote: > > > These guys really are becomming a joke. By hiding behind the trade mark > > laws and ripping off the US consumer with prices that are far higher > > than anywhere else. > > > > I find this greed very distasteful. Fortunately, nothing is forever, and > > your trade mark protection will run out at some future date. > > > > GI > Copyrights run out. Trademarks are forever. > > Dave

OH well - at least when I buy mine overseas the high prices back home mean that the used value of it will stay high so when I get fed up with it I can later sell it without much of a loss.
GI

From: "Mike" NEDSNAKE@email.msn.com
Subject: Re: Mamiya America A JOKE
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Ripping off?.......Greed?......its really to bad you have NO idea how much money it took the get the distributorship from Mamiya ...Japan. If my memory serves me .....I believe it was around 5 million....but then IF you really want to know.....send an email to attn Henry Frolick..my old boss from Berkey Marketing. Now....would you lay out that kind of money with out a good return ?????
Get a life.....or at least a grip.....
S. Gareth Ingram sgingram@venus.uwaterloo.ca wrote in message

> Dave C wrote: > > > > "S. Gareth Ingram" wrote: > > > > > These guys really are becomming a joke. By hiding behind the trade mark > > > laws and ripping off the US consumer with prices that are far higher > > > than anywhere else. > > > > > > I find this greed very distasteful. Fortunately, nothing is forever, and > > > your trade mark protection will run out at some future date. > > > > > > GI > > > Copyrights run out. Trademarks are forever. > > > > Dave > > OH well - at least when I buy mine overseas the high prices back home > mean that the used value of it will stay high so when I get fed up with > it I can later sell it without much of a loss. > > GI

From: see.signature@bottom.com (gary gaugler)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya America A JOKE
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999
"Mike" NEDSNAKE@email.msn.com wrote:

>Ripping off?.......Greed?......its really to bad you have NO idea how much >money it took the get the distributorship from Mamiya ...Japan. >If my memory serves me .....I believe it was around 5 million....but then IF >you really want to know.....send an email to attn Henry Frolick..my old boss >from Berkey Marketing. Now....would you lay out that kind of money with >out a good return ????? >Get a life.....or at least a grip.....

So their payment of $5M allowed them to become jerks? It seems so. You did not say that Mamiya was forcing the US market on them. Nay. It sounds more like Mamiya was coerced into letting them buy their way into the market. Once done, they took on the "my bat, my ball" attitude.
Overall, I don't get the impression that Mamiya is any longer a major force to consider. Their market share has continually diminished according to the figures I have seen. Maybe they are wrong. But in a small market like MF, market share means a lot.
Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
E-mail: gaugler@calweb dot com

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya America A JOKE
From: classicphoto@bellsouth.nyet (Classic Photo)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999
classicphoto@bellsouth.nyet says...

>So their payment of $5M allowed them to become jerks? It seems so. >You did not say that Mamiya was forcing the US market on them. Nay. >It sounds more like Mamiya was coerced into letting them buy their way >into the market. Once done, they took on the "my bat, my ball" >attitude.

Hi Gary. I know you shot Hasselblad for a long time before switching to Pentax. Do you have any experience with Mamiya? I've found them to be nothing but helpful. I'm a member of NPS, and CPS, and I have never received the kind of service from either of them that I have from Mamiya.

>Overall, I don't get the impression that Mamiya is any longer a major >force to consider. Their market share has continually diminished >according to the figures I have seen. Maybe they are wrong. But in a >small market like MF, market share means a lot.

Last I heard, they claimed the largest market share in MF. The RB and RZ's are supposedly in more studios than any other MF camera. I could be wrong, but I'd be real surprised if their share is diminishing. I'd love to see the data if you care to share it with the group.

From: rabaste@aol.com (RABASTE)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya America means business, get used to it...
Date: 21 May 1999
Hi Bob!
I ain't that forgetfull! Just that there is plenty of profit and Steve shouldn't worry about how Calumet felt about the deal... :))) It is still double than you would pay retail in Hong-Kong... Does this mean you are more informed than me about dealer net or that you justify high prices because of advertising and promotion?
Hasta!

>>When you can buy an entire computer >>system for a $1000 retail, it certainly doesn't cost $400 to put an RZ >>together >_____________________________ >I suspect very little of the cost of making something is in materials and >workmanship. Overhead, including promotion, is probably the big ticket. > >Also, you forget that computers are sold by the millions, but an RZ is a >rare >bird indeed. > > >Bob Gurfinkel

From: rgiridhar@asiansources.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Low prices in Asia
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999
I just enquired for and got a quote for the following from Cathay Photo in Singapore
* Mamiya RZ67 Pro II body with Waist-Level Finder and built-in flip-up magnifier S$1720 (US$1000 appx.) This item is listed at US$1899 at B&H;, NY.
* 110mm f/2.8 lens with lens hood S$1326 (US$770 appx. This item is listed at $1429 at B&H;, NY.
* Mamiya RZ67 Pro II body with 110mm/f2,8 lens & 120 film holder S$3474 (US$2020 appx. This kit is available from B&H; for about US$3000.
So, anyone travelling to Singapore would be well advised to check out MF equipment there!
Incidentally Cathay Photo does mail order. Check their site for free quotes and shipping. http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg
Giridhar

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999
From: "Guy Parsons" parsog@mail.tig.com.au
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Nikon Shopping In Singapore - Summary
Thanks to all who responded to my request for information about where to shop for Nikon in Singapore.
12 responses in total.
11 votes for Cathay Photo in Peninsula Plaza http://www.cathayphoto.com.sg/ they have no on-line catalog, you need to request quotes by e-mail either for pick-up or mail order.
Also mentioned as possible second choices were...
Photoguide in Peninsula Plaza
Max Photo and Alley Photo at Centrepoint on Orchard Rd
Peninsula Plaza seems to be the photography place with lots of new and second-hand shops to choose from. Bargains are to be found in the second-hand shops so they need some careful examination.
Other advice was to avoid Lucky Plaza on Orchard Rd and always know your prices and be prepared to haggle. With Cathay Photo, e-mail quotes before arriving seem to produce better prices than walking in off the street.
One response said to leave Singapore for the sight-seeing and do the Nikon shopping in Malaysia, there are bargains to be found because the currency is at a low.
Price examples so far show that Singapore is appreciably cheaper than USA or Australia except for newer items like the F100 and the 28-105 where the difference is much smaller. The LS-2000 scanner is more expensive in Singapore than elsewhere.
I now have some goods waiting for me to be picked up at Cathay!
Thanks once again......... Guy Parsons

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999
From: "Bantugon, Aurelio" aibantug@bechtel.com
Subject: RE: [NIKON] Re: Nikon Shopping In Singapore - Summary
guy, i'm from manila, philippines and presently working here in malaysia. i worked before in singapore and i found out that camera is cheaper here in kuala lumpur, malaysia than in singapore. i bought my f100 here in malaysia two months ago and the price if converted to u.s. dollar is about 1,370.00 while in singapore is about 1,490.00 . i also bought 24-120 lens and cost about 80.00 u.s. dollar higher in singapore and that store is the cathay photo in peninsula plaza.
singapore to kuala lumpur, malaysia is about five hours if you will take bus and round trip ticket is only 50.00 u.s. dollar ( i don't know how much by airplane).
there's no big camera shop in malaysia but the price is cheaper compare to singapore.
regards,
aurelio

From: Shun Cheung shun@e-mail.addr.in.sig
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 - why so much $$$ ???
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999
Karl Juul wrote:

> Russell Brooks RussellBrooks@nospam.worldnet.att.net wrote in message > > another rule of marketing is price elasticity. it might be that if they > > lower the price the increased demand will more than make up for the > smaller > > margin. plus increased exposure to a good product like the 7 will spill > over > > into sales for their other products. > > > > Mamiya USA is making a huge marketing blunder in my opinion. > > Mamiya USA has historically priced their product far above what the > identical items are available for outside the US, and has aggressively > defended against gray marketing by enforcing trademark protections.

Yes, and there was a long discussion in the Medium-Format Forum on ordering Mamiya 7 body and lenses directly from Asia, thus saving a lot of money. See the details at:
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000Q0c

-- Shun Cheung New Jersey,USA shun(AT)att.net
Kenya Photo Safari -- http://photo.net/photo/nature/kenya.html
Antarctica Photos -- http://photo.net/photo/nature/antarctica.html

From: J and K Milne jandkmilne@home.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Question about buying grey market lenses
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999
Henry Posner wrote:
"You may wish to know that "grey" lenses from B&H; are warranted by us for one (1) year, while "USA" lenses are warranted by Nikon for five (5)."

Don't be shy Henry, on some lenses you sell an extended warranty; ie. 7 years on the 20-35 f2.8 for about $40. Since the "grey" is $200 less than the "USA", I still saved money.

From: jfo@feri.de (John F. Opie)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Why no grey market MF cameras?
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999
(Nick) wrote:
snip in order to pare things down a bit...

>>And what's becoming more interesting now is the boom in international >internet commerce, which now makes it easy to shop internationally, thru >email. Will this force companies like MAC to lower their prices if >individuals start grey marketing their own goods? This of course, is a >whole 'nother topic, and only time will tell. > >Anybody have any insight on this?

Hi Nick -
Welcome to the weird world of international pricing.
I live in Germany (and used to work in Switzerland) and have largely bought my equipment in New York (I'm a native New Yorker to make things even weirder...).
Pricing my Pentax 67 setup I was surprised by the prices in Germany, which are ca 40%-50% higher than those in New York (well known to the salespeople at B+H, Adorama and Ken Hanson, who sell a **lot** to people from overseas in the New York stores). I talked some with a store owner in Freiburg, where I was living, and we compared some prices. Turned out that B+H prices (discounted retail) were lower than his cost exclusive shipping. He complained bitterly to his distributor and threatened to grey-market them himself.
Basically, the reply he got was that a) grey imports don't have legal warranties and that he would have to carry any risks himself, effectively making it impossible to carry anything (since German law is such that a retailer has to cover the warranty for at least 6 months, and since he would have to ship to the US for repairs, any significant repair would be very costly, and he would probably end up, if not on a blacklist, certainly on the company sh*t list). The pricing policy is basically what the market will bear, mixed with strategic considerations tied with exchange rates and hedging (profit repatriation considerations), overhead and cost of maintaining repair centers and the like.
Basically, for example, Pentax could, theoretically, reduce its price by ca 50% in Europe and, again theoretically, increase their market share signficantly. But market share is misleading: not everyone would want to buy a Pentax 67, given its foibles, and indeed their market share probably wouldn't increase much at all, except for first-time entry buyers. But this market share increase comes at a cost of added infrastructure and the like. Further, the market isn't a very dynamic one, but rather fairly small and fixed (professionals and rich amateurs don't make up a large market) and the dynamics of the German market is such that every major maker has their niche and sales reflect not expansion, but rather new entries and replacement.
Hence Pentax goes for profit maximization, ie get the most return out of the sale. Professionals making money view the cost of the camera as a marginal cost in comparison to the other costs of the business (I know I did when I did wedding photography) and prefer to have easy and fast availability of equipment rather than saving 10% by mail ordering (plus these are the shops where he can go in and loan/rent something out, where he gets all of his film, etc: why piss these guys off for a couple of hundredd bucks, since maybe they'll forget to refrigerate your film or something equally petty).
Now, the current prices you see are also the result of exchange rates and may change fairly rapidly.
Of course, if the math works out (and it did, for instance, with me) you can fly to the dealer, buy the equipment and fly back for less than what you would normally have paid, including paying the duty when you come back in. For me, I had a vacation planned in New York in any case, so it was even less for me.
Your mileage may vary. :-)
Yes, international price comparisons **may** help drive prices down, but this is not quite the commodity product, and after-sales service and the like make a big difference. Further, the companies involved may well provide quotas to individual dealers (like Rolex does).
Just a few thoughts..
John

From: ted1953@usa.net (Ted)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Nikon USA warranty - Worldwide warranty
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999
New products come with both US (white copy) and Worldwide (yellow copy) warranty papers. Usually both warranties are one year. Some exceptions are the F5 has a 3 year US and Worldwide warranty, new AF lenses have a 4 year ESC "Extended Service Coverage" in addtion to the 1 year warranty, which makes 5 years (US) the ESC is not Worldwide coverage.
In Europe the 1 year worldwide (or (3 years for the F5) warranty (yellow copy) is in effect.
"cybersonic" heymchr.nospam@ibm.nospam.net wrote:

>Can anybody help me answer the following question(s): > >Is the Nikon USA warranty a worldwide warranty or is it just for the USA? Is >that a 1 year warranty or a 5 year warranty? >The reason I am asking is that I currently live in the US, but anticipate on >moving back to Europe next year. If I now buy equipment, what about warranty >when it breaks in Europe? >Does anybody have any experience with this? If the warranty is US only, can >I still have reparations done at my cost or will Nikon simply refuse? > >Thanks for your input! >Christophe.

From: rvh r.vanh@medoto.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Price of Velvia in Australia
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999
Velvia is expensive in australia (as are most 'pro' films) : 5 packs cost AUS $95.- retail ( just over US $60 ). Duty free you might expect about a 22% discount on film.
Richard.

From: Naomi and David Duffy fiddlydi@po.synapse.ne.jp
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Price of Velvia in Australia
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999
First, thanks to all who replied I really appreciate it.
Second, OUCH!!! Why in the world is there a 22.5% tax on film?! Are camera gear and film considered "luxury" items?
Since I'll be spending most of my time in Australia around Perth, I'm definitely going to stock up before going.
Thanks again.
David

From: John Halliwell john@photopia.demon.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Popularity of Pentax 67 in the US?
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999
gary gaugler see.signature@bottom.com writes

>I would have to say that it is cost effective rather than cheap. >While both are relative terms, I think that the cost effective nature >of the system predominates.

A quick comparison of prices from one dealer in the UK. (Note all prices in UK pounds (UKP) and subject to VAT @ 17.5% for non-business users):

RZ67II SV kit = 1191 (no cashback) RB67 SD SV kit = 1100 (no cashback) Mamiya 7 + 80mm = 1085 Mamiya 645 Pro Tl kit = 1553 Hassi 501CM complete = 1675 P67II + 105 + AE Prism = 1650 P645n complete = 1511 SQAi complete = 1128

How do these prices compare to the US (relatively)?
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.

From: antispam@here.not (John R Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Popularity of Pentax 67 in the US?
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999
Visit www.bhphoto.com and see for yourself.

P67-II body: us$1500 ae-II prism: us$ 650 105mm lens: us$ 470 total us$2620

at the approximate exchange rate of US$1 == UKP 0.6178, that would be a total of about UKP 1618. Our sales tax varies by state, but if you buy mail order from out of state you usually don't have to pay ANY taxes.
The hassle 501CM complete kit is us$2700.00 which certainly seems comparable.
Where the real price break occurs here, at least, is the price of the multitudes of available lenses.
A Hasselblad CFE 40mm/4 FLE T Distagon is $4115.00 (OUCH!) The 180mm/4 CF Sonnar T is $3000. A 250/5.6 is $5025.
By comparison, the SMC Pentax 67 45mm/4 and 55/4 are each $900. The 165/2.8 is $730. A 200/4 is $790. A 300/4 is $1300. The P67 system has lenses all the way from a 35/4.5 rectangular fisheye to a 800/4, a 800/6.7 ED-IF, and a 1000/8 Catioptic Reflex. While the extremes of this system get pricy (that 800/6.7 costs $11,000), the bulk of the lenses are very reasonably priced. Some may argue they aren't as sharp as they could be wide open, but all of them perform superbly if stopped down just one notch from widest setting.
-jrp

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999
From: "Gregory Matanjun" gremon@tm.net.my
Subject: [NIKON] (best) Nikon buy?
Adriel wrote...
On the note of bargain Nikon and Nikkor optics, where *are* the best deals would you say? Malaysia, or Japan? .... or is there some place I'm overlooking?
That would be an interesting topic! Why don't we conduct a survey on the prices of Nikon photographic equipment worldwide.
Let's start with a selection of popular items, and invite subscribers to send in the best prices they can get for any of the items from their section of the planet. Submit the prices in the USD equivalent. Maybe Alexander can even post the price list on the nikonusers.org website, this list would be better if it's web-based. What say you? I'll start off with the prices of the following here in Malaysia:-

F100 1,300 AFS 80-200 f2.8D ED 1,600 AFS 28-70 f2.8D ED 1,600 28-105 f3.5-4.5D IF 340

You can add your own items to the above.
Retailers will normally have their listed prices much higher than the above, but you should not pay more than these. The trick here in Malaysia is to bargain, bargain and bargain until your ears drop, but of course there is a limit to that - nobody will want to sell below a certain margin. However from what I can see, the grey prices in the US are pretty good.
Regards,
Greg

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999
From: "imagineero ." imagineero@hotmail.com
Subject: [NIKON] nikon FM2 made in Korea
I have seen this posting recently concerning Nikon FM2's made in Korea. I feel that I am able to speak with authority on this subject as I have been living in Korea myself for the past year (I am from Aus). There is indeed a korean made FM2, I have 2 of them myself. They are made under license by a company called anam who is a big mob over here, they do all kinds of things from tv's to stereos to cameras. They have a steel anam badge set into the body next to the FM2 symbol, and though I haven't tried I'm guessing it would be near impossible to remove. I have owned many nikons over the years and I can find no fault with these FM2's. They are just as well made as the jap version of which I have also owned several. They are also quite cheap around US$400 with the standard lense. Most camera equipment is a hell of a lot cheaper over here than it is in aus, sometimes less than half cost. That's about all I can say really.

From Nikon Digest Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Shop in Washington DC
If I were you, I would simply order over the Internet from B&H; and have the stuff shipped to your hotel.
Thank you.
A customer wishing to arrange delivery to a hotel/motel should read http://www.bhphotovideo.com/faq.html#shipto from our FAQ. Special circumstances obtain for shipping to hotels, etc.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999
From: Camdir@aol.com
Subject: Re: [NIKON] GREY MARKET?
Nick. Imagine that you are a US resident. Nikon USA have a contract with Nikon Japan under the terms of which they can purchase stock and sell it in the US. This stock is "Official" USA stock. It is covered by Nikon USA warranty and you can return it to them should any problems arise. They will fix it for you.
Grey stock is supplied by an independent supplier who sources the stock outside of the US, imports it themselves, and warranties it themselves. The "grey" area is that of the warranty position. Here in the UK, Nikon UK will fix non-UK supplied stock, provided that it is accompanied by the WorldWide warranty card. I can't comment on the Nikon US position, but I'm sure that ther are others who will.
The difference as far as the end user is concerned is that of price. By cutting Nikon USA out of the equation, the grey retailer can offer a lower price than the "official" product. Also we can supply new products (in smaller quantities) more quickly. e.g we have sold about thirty of the HB18 hood for 28-105 which Nikon UK are unable to supply, ditto the DR4 angle finder for F100/5/90 (albeit in smaller quantities).
Does that answer your question?
peter

[Ed. note: fyi - possible overseas buyer/source?]
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999
From: tmail@asiaonline.net
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: hong kong camera equip.
Hello Robert,
I know it's been a long time since your posting, but I am an american photographer working in hong kong and I would be willing to supply you with equipment bought here in hong kong for a small fee.
I have sourced out the lowest prices here and the shop gives me a special discount because I have been buying from them for years.
Let me know what you are looking for and I'll give you the prices.
Also, I will use a shipping method called Speed Post which is about 50% less than a premium courier would charge,like fed-ex. (the shops will use a premium courier because they dont have time to pack up the items and take them down to the post office).
Speed Post is just as fast, about 3 to 5 working days to reach the US, and it can also be fully insured.
Well, sorry for the sales pitch,
Thanks,
Tony.
also, you can check out my userfeedback page on ebay under: hongkongcamera

From: Henk Jamin h.jamin@netaxis.qc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Any Canadian experiences buying from US mail order?
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999
Just make sure that no UPS shipping is used. Costs you more than double what they charge at originating end in all kinds of fees. Stick to mail or FedEx. Mail costs you $5 plus sales tax(es).
Stuart wrote:

> I'm checking out the US mail order companies for a Yashica T4 Super or maybe > a Contax T2. Has anyone had experience ordering for delivery in Canada, > particularly w.r.t. shipping, customs and sales taxes?

From: AndylHart@hotmail.com (A Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Any Canadian experiences buying from US mail order?
Date: Mon, 24 May 1999
I absolutely second that. I had the sorry experience have having something shipped to me by UPS and learnt the hard way. Unless what you are buying is worth the at least doubling in shipping costs by all the extras that UPS charges you at the door when they deliver it, not withstanding that you pre-paid the shipping, NEVER ever use UPS to Canada.
....

From: David Bindle bindle@sklib.usask.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Any Canadian experiences buying from US mail order?
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999
Stuart wrote:

> I'm checking out the US mail order companies for a Yashica T4 Super or maybe > a Contax T2. Has anyone had experience ordering for delivery in Canada, > particularly w.r.t. shipping, customs and sales taxes? > > Thanks. > Stuart.

Yes... don't use UPS. The cheapest by far is U.S. postal service. This also saves in brokerage fees (standard 10$?) . With Fedex you can use tracking website, and you might feel more secure, but it's more expensive and they charge brokerage based on the value of items. Not bad with cheap stuff but expensive with costly gear.
Do your homework... phone FedEx and ask about brokerage. Phone customs and ask about taxes and duties.

From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: USA vs IMP
Date: 25 May 1999
Be advised that Nikon USA will not repairimports. If the serial number is not in their computer they will not touch it,
That depends on the item. They're being very cautious wiht the F5, F100, "S" lenses and other new items, but I send in my FM2n bodies periodically and they never blink.
and I don't how good B&H; is went comes to repairing the Gray market equipment.
I do know, and you can ask me if you're curious.

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei lenses - gray market B&H;?
Maybe it works like it does in the UK. If I buy camera equipment in London I will be charged the VAT. Then I pick up a form at the airport, fill it all in and supply with a copy of the sales receipt (if memory serves, which it does less and less) and the VAT will be refunded. Hardly worth the effort on small purchases, but certainly worth the effort on major ones.
BTW, things may have changed, but I used to always carry some good clean camera gear with me when I went to London. There used to be three good dealers on Pied Bull Yard near the British Museum, and I could always sell it to them for more than I could get in the USA.
I know that Classic Collection has gone out of business, but would presume that Jessops and Rare Camera Company are still there.
Bob

Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999
From: Marflex@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Rollei Users list digest V4 #45
owner-rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us writes:
2 Rollei Users list digest V4 #44
Hello Lucian Chis,
Yes, we are losing business by not servicing gray market Rollei equipment, but we are contractual obligated not to repair gray units. It is that simple.
Martin W. Arndt
Rollei Professional Service
Marflex Service Corporation

[Ed. note: see link at top of page to Cayman Camera...]
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Reply to: hasselblad@kelvin.net
To: mrabiner@concentric.net, hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: FS: Hasselblad 120mm + 55 - $2290
Not fishy at all. I have bought about $18,000 worth of Hasselblad equipment from Mrs. Collen McGaw who owns Cayman Camera. Just like the stuff you buy from any dealer in US but does not have the USA guarantee.
If the specific item is on hand when you order it, FedEx delivers it overnight to US.
If you have any questions, I will by happy to talk to you about my excellent experiences with Cayman Camera.
Should you wish to get fishy while in Cayman, that is no problem as it offers some of the finest SCUBA diving available.
Don R.

From Nikon Digest Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: SB-28 Gray market - To buy or not to buy
you wrote:

>I do a lot of traveling (International) so I would like to have a >worldwide warranty. which I think will not be available for the import >models.

The "grey market" version will be warranted by us, if bought from us. If you want a warranty reciprocally honored worldwide get the USA version. OTOH, if neither CWO nor B&H; has the USA version, perhaps half a loaf is better than none?
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999
From: Blair Hartsfield blair@hart-photography.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Cayman Camera
I visited Cayman Camera just a few weeks ago (vacation + shot a wedding).
Very nice store, about 2000 sq feet (large for that area). Nice Hasselblad display, authorized dealer, with very good pricing. In general, about 25% off of USA prices. I'm pretty sure that the warranty is an International Warranty on most of their gear. Might want to check with them on this.
Also, Cayman is one of the nicest diving areas to visit (already mentioned). Definitely don't miss swimming with the stingrays at Stingray City.
Blair Hartsfield
blair@hart-photography.com

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Cayman Camera
blair@hart-photography.com writes:
I visited Cayman Camera just a few weeks ago (vacation + shot a wedding).
Very nice store, about 2000 sq feet (large for that area). Nice Hasselblad display, authorized dealer, with very good pricing. In general, about 25% off of USA prices. I'm pretty sure that the warranty is an International Warranty on most of their gear. Might want to check with them on this.
I, too, just returned from Cayman (June 14, 1999) and paid a visit to Mrs. Collen McGaw's Cayman Camera where I have purchased about $17,000 worth of Hasselblad equipment over the last four years.
I just checked my warranty cards and they are international. The list of repair depots listed in the Hasselblad literature includes at least 10 sites in the US alone.
I have been very happy with her service.
Yes, we dived with the Sting Rays but at String Ray Island rather than Sting Ray City this time since there was much less surge.
We must have crossed paths since we were in Cayman about the same time. Stayed at the Hyatt on the ocean side of mile beach rode.
Don R.

Ed. Note: Some things _are_ cheaper in Europe!
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999
From: Ari Pesonen ari.pesonen@mail.wwnet.fi
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Voigtlander
you wrote:

>Okay, I checked out the cosina link. The bottom just gives an >introductory statement about Voigtlander and its tradition. Below the >links is a link to request a catalog (asks for name, address, etc.) and >asks to request for a list of nationwide dealers (Japan), etc. I seem to >remember the body selling at Yodobashi for around 23,000 yen (less than >$200!..no more than a P&S;!).

It doesn't cost much more in Europe either. It is astonishing how some U.S. dealers want to get $450 for the body and $850 for the 15 mm lens, when one can buy both for about $700 in Europe.
The camera body feels quite cheap, but I think that it is only an excuse to manufacture the lenses for the real target group, the Leica owners.
Ari P.

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: "Waldemar Maciejewski" conrad@v-wave.com
[1] Re: Canadian mail order
Date: Sun Aug 15 1999
UPS. Never ship UPS from the US to canada. its a 30 dollar flat rate, no matter what.
Conrad
Lee Whitehead wrote

>Which shipper has the unnecessary duty in the brokerage fees for orders from >the U.S.?

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Acer Victoria siddim01@student.ucr.edu
[1] Re: Is Zuiko lens dead?
Date: Tue Aug 24 1999
(snip)
Interesting. We were just talking about that on the Oly list. Seems like the Brits are royally getting screwed for their beloved Zuikos. 90mm f:2 macro, in US is US$900, in UK is US$19xx
Ouch.
/Acer "steppenwolf" Victoria

rec.photo.equipment.35mm
From: Mike Rogers mike.rogers@mikerog.demon.co.uk
[1] Re: Is Zuiko lens dead?
Date: Tue Aug 24 1999
Roland roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net writes

>Maybe, "yes" if it's outside our "Fortress Europe". :o) > >Roland

No, it isn't European taxes (VAT is 17.5% in the UK) but the higher rip- off that British retailers manage to get away with. We are beginning to realise this; last Christmas apparently one million Britons went shopping in New York - even with the air fare it could be cheaper to buy those things you covet. The only losers are the retailers. Don't you feel sorry for them?
Another example: cars can cost up to seventy (70) percent more in the UK than elsewhere - even cars made in Britain.
--
Mike Rogers

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Hope Springs Eternal
U.S. Customs is enforced in a very haphazard manner. Any camera shipped to someone in the USA from another country should be subject to duty, and the rate depends on what it is and whether new or used. In actual fact this duty seems to be assessed pretty rarely on small shipments.
I used to do a lot of importing of photo goods. There are two types of customs declarations, informal and formal, and this is based on the declared value of the shipment as a whole. I don't know what the current cutoff is, but it used to be $ 1,000. Above that amount you must deal with a formal declaration, which is more paperwork, and must be handled by a licensed customs broker.
To avoid that expense, people used to get the shipper to break down the shipment (e.g., ship lens separate from camera body) to keep the value of each parcel below the ceiling, and ship the parcels on different days. This practice is illegal when used to avoid formal declarations, though, although I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it, and many customs brokers used to openly recommend it.
I have not done any serious importing for about nine years, though, and the regulations could well have changed. I would get the latest info booklets from US Customs to find out the current state of regulations. Also, they probably have a web site these days.
Bob

> You bring up another interesting subject, however: Customs. I've > purchased maybe six items from abroad: France, Australia, U.K., South > Africa and the Argentine. The topic of customs duty has never come up. I > know it is out there I just don't know how it all works. There have always > been declaration tags taped to the outside of the package but no sign of > secondary duty payment. Hopefully one of the RUG members can help us out > on this. > Regards, > P. Mattei

[Ed. note: possible lower cost option for those in Europe and elsewhere with access to "duty-free" airport shops - call ahead to avoid out-of-stock or plan your trip to go where the goods are ;-)]
From Nikon Digest:
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999
From: Roman Kris roman@biomedicom.co.il
Subject: [NIKON] Nikon gear in Amsterdam duty free
Hi,
I visited photo-dep in duty-free in Amsterdam airport.
They have exellent set of Nikon bodys/lenses(including new discounted Nikkor AF 75-300). Average price is B&H; one + 50-100$ to item.
Best wishes,
Roman Kris

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Balazs Ujfalussy bu@power.szfki.kfki.hu
[1] Re: fuji 617 panorama
Date: Fri Oct 08 1999

> Hi! > I am an italian photographer. I've try that panoramic camera and it is > fantastic. But it is very expensive to buy it here in Italy. Maybe here > there is an american photographer or an american man wich could help me: > I would like to know the price of that camera in USA (in Italy is > 7.300$+/-) and if it is possible and easy to find one in second hand > market. > Thanks a lot and bye > alessandro

Have a look at http://www.bhphotovideo.com/. It says 2663.95.
Balazs
--
Balazs Ujfalussy
Research Institute for Solid-State Physics, Hungarian Academy of Sciences

From: ntoge@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Camera prices in Japan
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999
"Barry Hood" behood@ozemail.com.au wrote:

> I have been looking at camera prices in Japan at > http://www.yodobashi.co.jp/ > and am a bit taken aback by the prices. > I have been led to believe, by reading numerous posts, that prices in Japan > are generally less than in the US. > Comparing the prices to the B&H; site it seems that the Japanese prices are > very high.

You are right, they aren't cheap. Yodobashi and some other big camera stores, for instance, Sakuraya, have a 10% kick-back program that credits you 10% of your new purchase. So, their prices are effectively 10% less than what are quoted on the web. Still they are not terribly inexpensive. This, coupled with the recent exchange rate, makes it much less attractive for US residents, for instance, to buy a lot of camera equipment in Japan when travelling there. Things changed since 80s.
I can't shed much light on it except actually living in there . For my survival, usually I buy used camera equipment at used camera shops. Some offer 1/2 or 3/2 of Yodobashi prices with 6-month to 1-year warranties. If you speak Japanese and have confidence in dealing with used equipment, there are many interesting places to fool around in the Tokyo area and elsewhere.
- Nobu Toge (toge@lcdev.kek.jp)

From: A. Server alant@bdm.local.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Camera prices in Japan
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999
Aside from the generally shaky premise, one should probably factor in the fact that the yen has appreciated around 40% against the dollar over the past 12 months. That will take care of a pretty hefty price difference if there were one in the first place. (and I doubt it)
The U.S. is probably the biggest retail camera market in the world. In addition, there are fewer anti-competitive governmental and regulatory forces at work on prices than are present in almost any other market. Cameras are small, light, and easily shipped. So there is very little reason for prices to be better elsewhere over the long run.
$0.02

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999
From: richard ricwalsh@tinet.ie
Subject: [NIKON] Why do prices vary so much globally?
Hi
I am in the market for an AF 105mm f/2.8 D Micro and have been astonished at the variation in prices I have seen globally.
At bhphotovideo's web site the price is $609.95 - $534.95 grey I phoned my Nikon dealer in Dublin and he quoted me IEo965 ($1309.312) I checked prices at Grays of Westminster UK and was quoted o660 ($1092)
Can anyone explain why this should be. Also does anyone know if it would be worth my while purchasing the lens from the USA as a grey item, am I liable for a huge tax surcharge when shipping it here to Ireland?
I can't wait for global internet shopping tax free!!!
Richard

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999
From: "Brad Johnson" dansbo@djam.com
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Grey or US if I leave...
Mario
US one year warranty comes automatically with a worldwide warranty also. Both warranties are glued together at the edge with a header sheet. It has been this way for several years. The new five year warranty is a seperate set of sheets.
Brad

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999
From: "Desmond Tan" thepatroit@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [NIKON] Grey or US if I leave...
A lot of people seem to be confused with Nikon's US warranty, worldwide warranty, and grey market warranty. Let me see if I can help you clear up this mess!
If and only if you purchased a Nikon item that is distributed by the country's distributor (let's say Nikon USA for example) will you have a warranty certificate enclosed with your product (some exceptions, read on below). This is a three piece certificate. The first piece is useless, second piece (white) is for warranty in the US. The third piece (yellow color) is the "Nikon One Year Worldwide Limited Warranty (excluding Continental US..." This is for times when you travel out of the states/overseas and need warranty service for your equipment.
Summary so far: Any Nikon equipment purchased from an authorised Nikon dealer and DISTRIBUTED by the local Nikon distributor (may or may not be Nikon owned) in any country will entitle you to warranty service in both your country of purchase and anywhere else you may travel/stay. You DO NOT have to ship the product to the US (for example) for service if you purchased the item from US while visiting/working/studies/whatever, or if you are US resident relocate to UK or Greece or Hong Kong for employment/studies/whatever. The distributor of Nikon equipment in the country you have relocated to or going back to will honor the worldwide warranty issued by Nikon Japan (notice it says Nikon Japan warranted on the worldwide/yellow piece and Nikon Inc. USA warranted on the white piece.)
Grey market are warranted by the grey seller. It is not valid in anywhere else or any country other than the store that sold you the item. You have to ship the item to the store that sold you for warranty service. Grey items may or may not contain the Nikon warranty certificate. This part is a bit confusing, so bear with me.
Because Grey items are actually parallel imports, it means they are designated to be sold in another country, so the distributor for that country warrants those items and includes a similar Nikon warranty certificate in the boxes as if it was going to be sold there. BUT (a big but) since you did not buy the item in that country from that distributor DIRECTLY or through its agents/dealers, the warranty certificate (even if present) is WORTHLESS. This is why you need the proof-of-purchase (from a dealer in that country) as spelled out in the Nikon warranty certificate.
Special case: Mail order. Works as though you visited and bought the item from that dealer in that country even though you were not physically there, since the proof of purchase is from the dealer in that country you bought from. But only the official Nikon distributor's items are warranted (eg. only Nikon USA's warranted items are valid for warranty in the country you mail-ordered from.) Grey market will alway be grey market, wherever/however you bought it.
Summary for grey warranty: The store that sold you the grey item warrants that item. You have to send it back to that store for service, even if you now live in another side of the world. Even if the grey item contains a Nikon warranty certificate (some don't because the store will remove the warranty certificate so as NOT to confuse you), it is not valid. Hint: Check the name of the distributor printed on the certificate. If you bought "official" products, they should have certificate issued with your country's distributor's name imprinted on it. Therefore if you are in US and bought grey, the Nikon warranty certificate, even if present, would NOT say Nikon USA. If the store happened to include a Nikon USA warranty and you specified and paid for grey, then you are in luck!
I think what confuses a lot of people is that Nikon USA issues its own warranty certificate and splits up the warranty into separate US and Worldwide component. For my Nikon equipment purchased in different countries in Asia, the warranty certificate is direct from Nikon Japan and has the country's distributor's name printed on it. It has three parts, A-Dealer's copy, B-Distributor's copy, and C-the Worldwide Warranty Certificate. So the Worldwide warranty certificate is valid for both the country of your residence and for anywhere else in the world (including USA, which is included in the worldwide list of Nikon service centers). I think this is also true for Nikons sold in Canada (from what I have seen.)
So to answer the original poser's question about buying grey or US, buy the Nikon USA warranted item because it will be valid in your home country (with the yellow worldwide warranty piece of course.) Buy grey and you have to send it back to the store you bought it in US for service. So Mario is correct in a way that the Nikon US warranty is no good other than in US but what he didn't mention (or maybe didn't know) is there is a part 2 (yellow piece) that is good for worldwide use and included free (i.e. you don't have to get/ask for it, like Mario said). So next time you send in the yellow piece worldwide warranty for rebates, hope you get it back, especially for F5 users because if you go overseas, there goes your three year F5 worldwide warranty baby!
Hope it was helpful
Desmond
....

From: Gary Drainville gary@ns.sympatico.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.help,rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: need help on mail camera to toronto through the customs
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999
Chin-Fan So wrote:

> Any body has friends mail camera stuff for them in Toronto either by post > office or express comapany, I want to know how would the customs deal with > it. > My friend work in DHL said the custom will just have to trust the value of > the goods inside, there is no way they can proof it's value, u can say it's > used, gifts or something.., then we will have to pay 25% of the values as > duty, is that alright? > > Direct email is welcome! > Any comment will be greatly appreciate! ^_^

All camera equipment is duty free. If it's over $1500 I have found there to be a different process involved, you must send a letter stating that you authorized XXXX shipping company to release said items and that you will pay the taxed on them. The goods would also be held in Customs for 2 days. I would stick with FedEx as all the brokerage fee are included in the shipping charges. I just bought a $2000CDN camera from the states - paid no duty, just taxes.
Send it as a gift and you shouldn't have any trouble at all. Good luck.
--
Gary Drainville
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/gary/

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999
From: Tom Hellwig thellwig@att.net
Subject: Re: FS: Hasselblad 120mm + 55 - $2290
Hi Don:
I thought I was doing pretty well when I bought my 501CM kit and accessories (about $8000 total) from B&H; this spring. The money I saved over my local shop allowed me to basically get an extra A12 and a Polaroid back for free (unfortunately, they weren't giving away PM5's like they are now!). But now that I have read this thread on Cayman (actually, read it in June, just getting around to acting on it), it seems as though I could have got even more "free" stuff if I went with Cayman. I have corrensponded with Coleen a couple times and it seems the price difference is even greater than that between my local dealer and B&H; (I'm thinking about a CF180 for $1859 vs. $2995 at B&H;, plus a Softar II, hood, PM5 and 2XE at similar savings, unless I can find a good used PM and Mutar 2X).
You mentioned in your letter that you would be happy to talk some more about your experiences. Is there anything beyond what you said below? Have you ever had to get any of this equipment repaired? I am on a Ferrari list as well, and most of the hard core Ferrari guys prefer the Euro cars (unlike this equipment, there are differernces), and scoff at those who worry about "gray market" problems (which exist with Ferrari's, but only with the paperwork, rarely the repairs, and even the paperwork is not a problem if you do the proper research). I think I'll go this route with future purchases.
Thanks for the "tip".
Tom Hellwig
DonjR43198@aol.com wrote:

> Not fishy at all. I have bought about $18,000 worth of Hasselblad equipment > from Mrs. Collen McGaw who owns Cayman Camera. Just like the stuff you buy > from any dealer in US but does not have the USA guarantee. > > If the specific item is on hand when you order it, FedEx delivers it > overnight to US. > > If you have any questions, I will by happy to talk to you about my excellent > experiences with Cayman Camera. > > Should you wish to get fishy while in Cayman, that is no problem as it offers > some of the finest SCUBA diving available. > > Don R.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: FS: Hasselblad 120mm + 55 - $2290
Have not had any trouble with the Hasselblad equipment at all.
Expect to buy more from Grand Cayman.
Nice to hear from you.
Don R.

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999
To: rmonagha@post.smu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: CANON - Not US model, no warranty repair
Hi!
Assuming you just bought the camera within 2 months from the same dealer, what was the warranty offered by the dealer? Even on grey market goods, many dealers give a one-year warranty, and 90 days is about the least I have heard, esp. for a big dollar ticket item like a Canon EOS-5. if you bought it from another dealer, obviously you should be checking with them? IF the camera is still in warranty by the dealer, then obviously they should be paying for the repairs on such grey market goods, not you.
If the camera was bought used, then you usually don't get any USA or Canon international warranty (not transferrable generally), so you are limited to the used equipment warranty of the dealer you purchased the camera from - often 30 days to 90 days to one year maximum - it varys.
If the camera is a grey market import, you should still have an international or factory warranty, right? Are you within that warranty period, typically one year at least? If so, then your dealer - the one you bought the camera from - should be able to send it back to the factory for an in-warranty repair.
If your EOS-5 is out of these warranty periods, then it is out of its factory and/or dealer warranty, and any such repair is an out-of-warranty repair. It may be more economical to have it done at an independent repair shop that does Canon EOS repairs. See listings I have posted at: http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/repairsites.html
Where Canon is being smart, IMHO, is in offering repairs on grey market cameras at their shops - but obviously not for free under their warranty, since you didn't pay for it, right? They will reportedly repair any Canon, and not quibble about it being a grey market camera, but as you noted, they charge the usual out-of-warranty repair fees.
In short, sounds like you need to check with the dealer you bought the camera from as to whether their store warranty or the factory's international warranty applies to your camera, and if so, arrange for such warranty covered repairs. If out of warranty, then look at the lower cost independent repairshops or go with canon's offer ;-)
Finally, warranty repairs only cover defects of the camera, they aren't an insurance policy against any possible damage to the camera. If the shop believes the problem arose from abuse or a non-defective part source, then it would generally not be covered, even for an in-warranty camera. If you want such full coverage, you have to get camera insurance, see http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/insurance.html
good luck bobm

[Ed. note: note discount in India vs B&H...;]
From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999
From: Sanjay Mehta shm@india.com
Subject: re: [Rollei] India OT
Recently my father-in-law gifted me an old 120 format camera marked both "Made in India", and Geveart (spelling?). It's not really usable, and I've kept it as an interesting old piece of history of sorts.
Yes, photography is expensive, but in some respects is cheaper than (say) the US and Europe. 35mm film is cheaper here. Mini-labs have sprouted up in practically every street corner and you can shop around for cheap processing (or pay more for good processing).
The story on 120 is not so good. No many recognise it anymore, and a few outfits will process it at "pro" prices.
What Jay says about importing equipment was true until around 10 years ago. Currently Samsung, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and Minolta have distributors, and they are visible in the shops in the roughly the same order. I've also heard that the Ricoh GR-1 and GR-10 are available on order, but have not really seen them. Lots of cheap Yashica P&S; float around - not the T4 though.
It also appears that some models are discounted - the EOS 3 body was available last I checked for around Rs. 56,000/- (that's around US$1200/- vs US$1299.95 currently on the B&H; website). Keeping in mind that we still have heavy customs duties, that's not so bad.
A few years ago it would have been more like US$4000.
Even the Hasselblad 500 series body was discounted, though I don't recollect the details.
Some of the Leicas and Rolleis which Jay mentions, have started coming up for sale in odd places for quite low prices. Recently I saw a Leica M3 outfit with various lenses and gizmos sell for
On the happier side, I got my Rollei 35 TE for around US$40, a Voigtlander Vito BL for US$10, a Franka Solida III for US$6 and so on and so forth.
BTW, if anyone made it to this point and knows anything about the Franka Solida, please let me know. It has a Schneider lens (80mm f2.9) and a Syncro Compur shutter. It's a 6x6 folder and the back is marked US Zone.
Sanjay

> India manufacturing Agfa P&S; cameras is news even to ME !!, but then, I have > been here for nearly 20 years. India did collaborate with Agfa in the '60s to > manufacture cameras similar to the Agfa Silette of the '50s. As I remember > and perhaps even today, photography is an expensive hobby in India and also > compounded by the fact that camera gear was scarely available.

....

[Ed. note: regarding Ireland...]
From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999
From: richard ricwalsh@tinet.ie
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Global Nikon pricing
Gen
I have just spoken to customs here in Ireland and amazingly I have been told that there is no additional duty except for a 21% VAT charge due on the import of such items as cameras and accessories. Seeing as I can claim back the VAT through my business, and my brother owns a worldwide courier company, this means a saving of $700 on the 105mm f2.8. Even more amazingly I have been told there is no limit to the number of items I may import as long as the 21% VAT is paid. Perhaps I should start a business here in Ireland servicing the grossly overcharged Nikon users!
All I need now do is evaluate the warranty situation with Nikon, although I am not too worried about this seeing as I have never had any of my equipment fail in the past.
Richard

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999
From: Jari Louhelainen jarlo@thon.csb.ki.se
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Re: Global Nikon pricing
Here are some prices in Sweden, all in USD:

Nikon F5 $2468 Nikkor 2.8/80-200 $2035 Nikkor 105/2.0 $1518

And if you buy from USA, say B&H;, the Swedish government takes 25-33% as taxes and other costs.
Jari

[Ed. note: about VATs...]
From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999
From: Jari Louhelainen jarlo@thon.csb.ki.se
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Re: Global Nikon pricing
SNIP

>Richard, the European Union as far as I know has a uniform tax for cameras and >lenses. >It is ususally VAT on the total cost including shipping + the special import >taxe which is around 10%. >Rough total should be 30%.

Nope,

VAT in Netherlands: 17.5% VAT in Finland: 20% VAT in Sweden: 25%

>I believe that the higher prices are not for tax purposes, but are rather >set by >fluctuation of a currency and by the local Nikon distributor. >Of course, since you can buy tax free in anywhere in the EU, I think in the >future, the prices will be stabilized in the Euro currency.

How & where from can you buy tax free cameras within EU, if every country adds their VAT's to the prices ? I thought that they have stooped the tax free sales (in airports, for example). Correct me if I'm lost here.
Jari

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999
From: David Johnson david@xlnt.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Re: Global Nikon pricing
richard ricwalsh@tinet.ie wrote:

>I have just spoken to customs here in Ireland and amazingly I have been told >that there is no additional duty except for a 21% VAT charge due on the import >of such items as cameras and accessories. Seeing as I can claim back the VAT >through my business, and my brother owns a worldwide courier company, this means >a saving of $700 on the 105mm f2.8.

That $700, what currency is that? If it is United States dollars, that is more than a US warranty 105/2.8 Micro. If it is Irish Punt it is even worse, at least according to the Yahoo currency conversion program. How much is that lens in Ireland. When I went to Burma in 1997, I was surprised to see that the F90x cost $2000 US - more than double the cost in the United States. That represents 400 months wages of the average Burmese. However, an F4 was about $2500 US - not much more than Ritz Camera in the US at the time.
David Johnson

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999
From: "DJ" d-j-s@gmx.net
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Global Nikon pricing
I just checked it:
You have to pay duty if you buy in another country than EC-Countries.
If you bring goods from one country to another country within the EC-countries you pay the VAT of the country you buy it or if you have a special Tax-number (for this you must have a business) you pay the VAT of your own country. But then you must have official bills. So if you import from US to Ireland you have a US-bill and you do not have a Irish bill ;-) ok you can set up a business in Ireland set up a second in Germany pay fees and tax for both. Ther difference in VAT between Ireland and Germany is 5% Just check the US-prices add 21 % and the freight costs and compare it with prices in Germany.
AFD 35mm/2.0 656 DM incl. 16% VAT with full garantie 3 years
AFD 35mm/2.0 595 DM incl. 16% VAT grey garantie 6 months (both offers within Germany Aachen)
Yes you are right there is no Taxfree anymore in the EC. So you can forget this way.
Dirk
d-j-s@gmx.net

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999
From: "Ian Goodrick" ian@goodrickphoto.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: [NIKON] Global Nikon Prices
richard wrote:
[SNIP]

> Ireland does have a high tax > I am going to investigate just how much tax would be due if I were to import the > lens from b&h; US and compare costs. I am sure that customs would not charge 130% > tax on such an item, but lets wait and see.

Richard, the European Union as far as I know has a uniform tax for cameras and lenses. It is ususally VAT on the total cost including shipping + the special import taxe which is around 10%. Rough total should be 30%. I believe that the higher prices are not for tax purposes, but are rather set by fluctuation of a currency and by the local Nikon distributor. Of course, since you can buy tax free in anywhere in the EU, I think in the future, the prices will be stabilized in the Euro currency.
- - --
Warm Regards,
Alexander
I agree in most respects to the above, but the Punt is in EMU . This will have no effect on stability as the Yen will still move in relation to the Euro What it will give is price marmony across the Ero-zone . At present the main reason for price difference is simpley down to the local Nikon distributer. In the UK we now see that almost all products, not just cameras, are cheaper in other parts of Europe. This is not an effect of the introduction of the Euro, just that the Euro has made it easier to compare prices across Europe. Also if you look at the pricelist for Nikon at B&H; they list US and grey cameras. I stand to be corrected but I think this would be illegal in the EU. A final point is that Europe has been a series of small markets where the distributer in each country has had to make his profit from what he can sell in his part of Europe , this will change when Europe is a single market.
Ian

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Shun Cheung "shun"@e-mail.addr.in.sig
+ (Shun Cheung)
[3] Mamiya 7II Pricing in Hong Kong (Re: 645 AF)
Date: Wed Dec 22 1999
....

> I am interested in these models and will be visiting Australia, Singapore > and Hong Kong in the next 6 months. Doe any body know of a site or sites to > find and compare prices at these places?

My wife was in Hong Kong earlier this month (December, 1999). She is from there and her sister still lives there. They went to a camera store where her sister shops often and got these prices for the Mamiya 7II and lenses. 1US$ is about HK$7.8. There is no such thing as sales tax/VAT in Hong Kong, but these are cash prices. The rule in Hong Kong is that if you pay by credit card, they charge you 3% extra.

Mamiya 7II body HK$7500 US$ 962 50mm/f4.5 8900 1141 80mm/f4 4500 577 150mm/f4.5 6200 795

Essentinally, there is no way I'll buy any new Mamiya camera or lenses in the US. From the US, you can literally fly to Hong Kong and buy one M7II body. With the cost of the airline ticket, it is still cheaper than buying an M7II body in the US.
-- Shun Cheung New Jersey,USA shun(AT)att.net

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Shun Cheung "shun"@e-mail.addr.in.sig (Shun Cheung)
[5] Re: Mamiya 7II Pricing in Hong Kong (Re: 645 AF)
Date: Sat Dec 25 1999

JessKramer wrote:

> I have purchased from Robert White in the UK. I bought a Mamiya 7ll outfit and > saved many hundreds of dollars. customer service was excellent. I am based in > California

And there is the following recent thread about buying Mamiya 7II's from the UK, primarily frp, Robert White (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk).
http://photo.net//bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000iJe

People seem to like them. Comparing Robert While's Mamiya prices to those in Hong Kong, Hong Kong prices are still a bit cheaper. But the difference isn't that big as both represent huge savings from the rip-off prices in the US.
-- Shun Cheung New Jersey,USA shun(AT)att.net

From Nikon Mailing List:
Subject: Good stores in Hong Kong?
From: "Pol Lanting" polants@tac.weblinq.com
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999
Try these sites:
http://www.bubbachan.com/photoshopHK/shophk.htm
http://www.npc.org.hk/eng/address.html
I prefer the former site as the author's very helpful and respond personally and favorably to inquiries. I satisfactorily bought Nikon accessories in HK without much hassle using his advice. BTW, shops bent on separating tourists from their money is not only found in Kowloon :)

> Can anyone recommend a good camera store in Hong Kong I know that > there are lots of shops in Kowloon, but most of them seem mainly > interested in separating tourists from their money. I'm hoping to pick-up

From Leica User Group Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999
From: Lucien director@ubi.edu
Subject: [Leica] Horrific markup, was: Bag
Jeff Moore wrote:

> Enormous wad of cash? Domkes are dead cheap -- especially in a world > which contains Billinghams. The 802, to which I've been addicted for > lo these many years, is $US60 at B&H; (admittedly more than the > $45 I think I paid for my first one), and the 803 is $78. Or does > some sort of horrific markup happen on the way across the Atlantic?

F-803 is $140 here in Belgium (and 3 months of waiting).
Lucien

From Hasselblad mailing List:
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Portrait Lens for 503 CW
Peter.Klosky@trw.com writes:
Thinking of the 180mm Cfi or the 150mm Cfi.
Is Cayman Camera reliable? Any cheaper place to buy thes e lenses in the entire planet??
regards brethren (and sistren),
Quigg+
I have purchased Hasselblad equipment from Cayman Camera for years and have found Mrs. Colleen McGaw tops. I dive Cayman and pick up Hasselblad stuff from Cayman Camera while there and if I think of something later, just order it at about 60% off the B&H; prices. Gets here a couple of days later via FedEx.
By the way this summer when I was there, she had specials on 150s and 180's.
Her address is:

McGaw, Colleen, Mrs. Vice President Cayman Camera Ltd. Work #: 1-345-949-8359 Fax #: 1-345-945-1874 Alt #: 1-345-949-7479 E-Mail: caycamer@candw.ky Address 1 - Business: P. O. Box 2172 G.T. British West Indies

If you talk to her, tell her Don Rorschach says "hello"

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT Scanner
Actually, just about every USA mail order dealer is willing to export and looking in that direction to expand their sales. I've had meetings with many of them recently and this has come up in every meeting. The only dealers who would be hesitant about export would be small shops who just don't know how to do the paperwork.
Bob

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000
From: Alan Yeo nature_sg@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Nikon Prices in Japan
Hi,
Have to agree that the prices in Japan have shot up in recent times. This is probably due to the Yen. I just bought a lens from B&H; and it was US$225 cheaper than the price quoted to me by a friend in Japan. Talk about inflation!
Regards,
Alan

rec.photo.marketplace
From: millstok@aol.com (Millstok)
[1] Re: Any import fees for Canada to USA used camera shipment?
Date: Fri Jan 28 2000
Send it as Broken Camera for repair it works every time !! ( G M )

From: Gary Drainville gary@ns.sympatico.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace
Subject: Re: Have You Bought Anything Internationally?
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000
DaveHodge wrote:
> I have purchased items from Canada with no duty. One seller put on the customs > form "used camera for parts only."

New or used cameras between Canada and the US are duty free, anything over $1500CDN is still held in customs but released duty free when they receive a letter via the carrier that you promise to pay the sales tax. I've bought my EOS3 and large format camera from the States with great success from Calumet. Their URL is:
http://www.calumetphoto.com/
--
Gary Drainville
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/gary/

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: paulg peegeepe@btinternet.com.invalid
[1] Re: help on grey market equipment in japan
Date: Sat Feb 05 2000
Mamiya is a rip in USA.
It is not only cheaper in Japan,but substantially cheaper in Europe too.
A good very cheap British dealer is Robert White, at robertwhite.co.uk
their mamiya prices are 50% of US prices. no language problems, and they are honest and straight.
I am just a satisified customer many times over.

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000
From: Roland roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net
Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: My heart bleeds for you
I have ordered quite a bit of stuff from the US. It works out 90% sterling for dollars with all the overheads added. Granted, the guarantee wouldn't be worth much either. This 20-40mm Tamron, which is a highly sort-after lens due to its legendary high quality optics, was $399 from KEH in the US and the cheapest over here in the UK was o625. So that is comparing o360 with o625. That is one hell of a difference.
One lame argument over here is that a shop with people to pay can't compete with a mail-order firm. Well then I would suggest setting up a mail-order side of the business to shift stuff cheaply and in bulk and to keep the shops as a front. Since most companies will be going dwn the internet shopping path then it will turn into that in any case so they might as well start now.
Perhaps someone will come up with a comparison of the cost of these goods to them, the retailer, and measure the UK against the US.
Someone is trying to strangle photography over here in the UK. And it isn't me.
Simon Watkins wrote:

> UK retailers aren't always the rip-off that you think they are, though I > agree in many cases we are being fleeced. An example, I just bought a 24-85 > Minolta zoom from Tecno in Milton Keynes - their ticket price was o329 I > think. I got them to price match with SRS in Watford and got the lens for > o245 - a good price. I had a look at B&H;'s Website because I seriously > considered ordering from the States. However, working at $1.60 to o1, the > cost of the lens there was o272 - and that is without shipping and import > duty. Sometimes it is worth shopping around a bit in the UK. > > Simon > Jon jon@wolfseye.demon.co.uk wrote in message > > Roland roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net writes > > >God, I nearly choked with tears when that bloke from the UK said they > > >had to charge full list price so that camera shops could afford to pay > > >their staff. So *that's* why you lot have to charge o625 for a new > > >Tamron 20-40mm that people in the US can buy for $399. So *that's* why > > >you lot charge MORE THAN DOUBLE the price. So that you poor little > > >bunnies can put bread to your mouths. Now I understand. You sell sooo > > >little that you must charge more and more to make it worthwhile. > > >Well let me give you lot a clue. > > > > > >The reason people don't buy a lot of camera gear in the UK is because it > > >IS SO F$%&ING; EXPENSIVE. That is why I buy stuff from the US. To get > > >around the stupid prices you charge in your camera shops. Do you really > > >think you are making more money by forcing people to buy their stuff > > >from the US? > > > > > >Roland > > > > A few points to consider here I think. > > > > Firstly it is not the retailers who are wholly to blame. Price > > structures start at the importers. If goods are imported at > > artificially high levels then this will be eventually lead down to the > > customer. > > > > Importers/manufacturers are undoubtedly guilty of setting price levels > > abnormally high. This is easily confirmed by the fact that since'grey' > > importing has become stronger manufacturers/importers have lowered their > > prices. If you read the serious and the not so serious trade/hobby mags > > this fact is well confirmed. Articles containing expressions something > > like' we at 'Penikcanolta are adopting a more aggressive pricing > > structure to bring us into line with.....' . This is a preamble to the > > hardcore of the matter which no matter how presented or dressed up means > > ' we are cutting prices'. > > > > A recent example is the Nikon F5, first came to the UK with a Nikon set > > price. A couple of months maybe a bit longer and whammo they came down, > > substantially. > > > > Second point, people will sell at prices that they know a market will > > support, don't doubt it. > > > > If for example you were a wedding photographer doing local weddings for > > say o600 a time because that was what people could afford then fine. If > > subsequently a few articles about yourself were published in the right > > manner and a few very upmarket society/ celebrity weddings came your way > > you could multiply your price by ten and get it! > > > > Please don't be gauche enough to deny it. Remember ostensibly you would > > be offering the same product with perhaps a little 'window dressing' but > > without a tenfold increase in cost. > > > > The final point, yes I've bought things from B&H; in New York both in > > person and mail order. By the time I have paid local taxes, import duty > > and VAT I've saved very little. Furthermore by making my purchases > > from the same one or two retailers I have, over the years, built up a > > rapport with these people. I get excellent service, I get invitations > > to 'Trade Days' and invitation only equipment previews. I get equipment > > lent to me when mine goes in for service or repair often with little or > > no charge. > > Before writing this I found receipts for everything purchased by me for > > 1999. I then spent an hour or so comparing prices from a couple of the > > box shifters, who incidentally in my experience do not have staff > > sufficiently experienced to deal with most sensible and or serious > > questions. I discovered I had been 'ripped off' to the tune of o280. > > I include VAT. To me the sheer fact that if, God forbid, tomorrow I > > need a piece of equipment because one I purchased from them is broken or > > faulty I will be dealt with quickly, politely, knowledgeably, and > > favourably. Far out weighs this cost. > > > > Yes I know that to some of you o280 quid may be a large enough > > difference to cause concern. You have but one choice vote with your > > feet, but if after a while you find yourself standing in a puddle don't > > ask your local dealer for a helping hand. > > > > > > Jon

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000
From: Peter Wright peter.wright@pwgsc.gc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: UK price rip-off

> The UK's prices on 35mm camera gear and accessories is notoriously high. On the > other hand, their prices for medium-format gear, when compared to US prices, > are incredibly low. > > Check out Robert White Photo for examples -- www.robertwhite.co.uk > > Kerry

Also Schneider large format lenses are remarkably cheaper at Robert White than they are at B&H.; As a Canadian who shops the world for my gear, all I can say is that I have found that the pricing depends on the distributer. Mamiya is most expensive in the US, then Canada, then the UK; Schneider is most expensive in Canada, then the US then the UK; and LowePro is the most expensive in the UK, the US then Canada.
Cheers,
Peter

From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01)
Date: 30 Jan 2000
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Grey Market Question
The whole issue of parallel imports (the real term,--not "grey market.") is a clear winner for those of us in the United States. Parallel imports suffer from the alleged reputation that they are made on "another production line,--an inferior one." This is a myth,--and only a myth.
I've been buying "parallel import" Nikkor lenses for decades. Any time a friend or relative happened to be going to Hong Kong,--I've give them a list of my 'needs.' These lenses were sold with a "worldwide waranty" and since the US is part of the world,--repairs, if ever needed, could be routed through Nikon's formal repair system in the US.
Nikon's repair capacity in the US is in trouble. They have been farming out warranty repairs for sometime.
Think about the item you're buying. Is it something that will need warranty service? Nikon F5s today are sold with multi-year warranties. They don't offer that sort of coverage if the thing is going to fail within that time. Production consistency is so incredibly good these days out of Japan that it is a rare day, indeed, that you'll need in-warranty service.
Go for the better priced parallel import and put the savings into film!
Edgy01@aol.com

From: "Walter T" wturchyn@vansco.mb.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: US to Canada
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000
I recently purchased a used camera through eBay, which came by mail. I had to pay 7% GST plus 7% Manitoba sales tax, as well as a $5.00 handling fee from Canada Customs.
Jim MacKenzie wrote

> >> I would like to buy a used lens from the US to Ontario, Canada. I wonder >if >> there is any duty tax that I have to pay. the lens is about $ US 800 > >7% GST, no duty. Be careful who you use to ship it; some companies charge >exhorbitant import fees (i.e., UPS).

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000
From: John Bailey jbailey@kos.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: US to Canada
Ontario now charges the PST and it is collected by Customs. I called Customs because it is the first time I was charged the PST. They said it was changed at the Ontario governments request. "Guess they smartened up" was one of his comments. I think he said it changed in June last year.
--
John

Date: 18 Jan 2000
From: setiawansr@aol.com (SetiawanSR)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: Price of Nikon F100 in Hong Kong
My sister went to HK last month. I asked her to buy F100 for me. However, the price was only $100 cheaper, therefore I decided not to buy overthere.
I am afraid if something happened with the Camera, Nikon USA will not repair that camera. I understand if the camera is fake, Nikon USA has the full right not to help the customer. However, if the camera is genuine and has world wide guaranty, there should not be any reason not to repair. But it is not the case.
As a matter of fact, I have just bought a Nikkor 60mm micro lense at Ritz Camera in the State earlier this evening. I basically so afraid of buying those merchandises without guaranty. Nikon USA is so successful in making me afraid....:((

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000
From: MC Lau mclau@pc.jaring.my
Subject: [Leica] Leica has a new distributor
Following the news that Canada will be having a new distributor for Leica, I was told yesterday that Leica Germany had decided to change it's distributor in Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand. The change over is expected to take place real soon. Apparently, some Leica representatives will be in Malaysia next week to sort out the outstanding stock.
The new distributor is the current distributor of Rollei, Pentax and Metz gears.
Coincidence? May be, may be not. Time will tell......
Cheers
MC Lau
http://www.mir.com.my/mclau/

rec.photo.equipment.misc
From: jburke4269@aol.com (JBurke4269)
[1] Re: Nikon USA vs Worldwide Warranty
Date: Sun Feb 13 2000
Similar Situation, although not Nikon. Due to the highly overpriced Hasselblad dealers in the US I have decided to purchase any new items outside the US, say Caymen Islands. Their new prices are generally 40% less than US and even half on extension tubes and certain accesories. Their Hasselblad International warranty is honored in the US but I'm not sure about the same repair center as a Hasselblad USA repair center. CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN!!!!!!!

From Nikon Digest:
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000
From: "Patricio Murphy" murphy@cvtci.com.ar
Subject: [NIKON] Grey or USA, you're lucky guys!!!
Hi all,
Having followed the thread about grey or USA, I wanted to share with you some rather amusing (well, not so) info about the prices down here. You'll feel relieved!

AF20mm f/2.8 $1440 AF28mm f/2.8 $622 AF 50mm f/1.8 $280 (yes, $280) AF 70-300 f/4-5.6 $922

If I order from B&H;, pay the shipping and all the duties, it's still almost 50% cheaper than the official Nikon importer price. I suppose the support and service they give might be outstanding to be worth such a difference...
If you want to check the whole price list and have a laugh, point your browser to www.nikoncenter.com,ar
Best regards,
Patricio Murphy
Buenos Aires, Argentina
murphy@cvtci.com.ar

[Ed. note: Mr. John Wall is the editor of the Photography FAQ etc.]
From Nikon Digest:
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000
From: John Wall jnweg@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Grey Market Once More
Folks,
I spoke about the matter of Nikon USA repairing grey market gear yesterday with my local camera repair guy. He says that recently Nikon USA has gotten much more strict on this, and now will repair (in or out of warranty) ONLY Nikon USA imported gear.
Says he had a customer with a F601 he had bought in Germany and it was so screwed up inside that my repair guy couldn't fix it. So he advised the customer to send it to Nikon USA. Nikon USA refused to touch it even though the owner had the sales receipt from the original purchase in Germany and was willing to pay whatever Nikon USA wanted to charge for the repair.
So I was wrong about whether Nikon USA will repair out-of-warranty non-Nikon USA-imported gear. Looks like now Nikon USA won't even honor the Nikon International Warranty.
We clearly need to send Nikon USA a few standard textbooks in Total Quality Management and remind them that they need to become customer driven.
My repair guy also said that he had heard that Rhode Island had taken Nikon USA to court over this and won, and that if you have a Rhode Island address when you ship a piece of grey gear to Nikon USA they will fix it. This sounds like an urban myth to me, but it makes a good story.
Bottom line -- we need to get an official clarification from Nikon USA about camera repairs in and out of warranty for gear that is bought abroad or bought in the USA from a grey market dealer.
Where are the Nikon insiders when we need them?
Best,
NikonJohn

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000
From: "Scott Laughlin" splaughlin@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Re: "Grey market" product differences ===
Cathal, Nelson, et al:
Obvious a sore subject with me. I think when we talk about "greed", for me at least I consider the official importer. Not the retail organizations that actually sell to us. I believe it to be true for all manufacturers, although Nikon does not seem to be too extreme. If you want an extreme example, take the Mamiya 7II. In the US at a reputable retailer (they come close in price):

Mamiya 7II body ~ $2000 Mamiya 80mm f4 lens ~ $1300 Total is $3300 From another reputable retailer in the UK: Mamiya 7II body ~ $1200 Mamiya 80mm f4 lens ~ $750 Total is $1950

Do these types of price differences make the Mamiya US importer "greedy"? I don't know, but what amounts to about 40% savings for the exact same camera and lens can't be attributed to some warranty in the US. Our repairman or just not that good :)
Cheers!
Scott Laughlin
http://home.g2a.net/~slaughlin

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000
From: John Albino jalbino@jwalbino.com
Subject: RE: [NIKON] "Grey market" product differences
Desmond Tan wrote:

>distributors and/or dealers in other countries. So if those distributors >in other countries can sell you gray Nikons that are 10-20% lower than >what the official import Nikons sell for, imagine what the actual dealer >cost is. >Should be at least another 10% less than what the gray items sell for.

In the U.S. back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, it was generally considered that the actual retail dealer net for a Nikon product was about 47%-48% of the Nikon MSRP. That meant if the dealer took advantage of all available volume and quick payment discounts, holdbacks, bonuses, etc. from Nikon, plus advertising incentives, the final dealer cost of a product which Nikon listed at --say-- $1,000, was about $480. At the time, the actual retail selling price of such an item was at about a 30%-33% discount off the MSRP. So the product with a Nikon listed price of $1,000 would sell on the street for about $670-$700.
If you look today at the big dealers such as B&H; you'll notice the same discount off Nikon list price, which seems to indicate the same rule of thumb above is still in effect. It also suggests that the regional Nikon distributor probably pays less than 45% of the Nikon listed price to Nikon Japan.
So an official Nikon USA F5 selling for --say-- $1,999, with a Nikon MSRP of $3,090, probably cost Nikon USA much less than $1,400, and cost a dealer such as B&H; less than $1,500.
- --
John Albino
mailto:jalbino@jwalbino.com

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998
From: Andre a.calciu@anent.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] OT before you buy a Bessa L
Before you all jump and shell out the cash, wait. I have a friend in Japan and asked him to buy one for me as soon as it shows up at Yodobashi or any other photo store. The retail price is 68,000 Yen (about 600 bucks). Rangefinder duties and shipping will add less than 100 bucks to the total price.
Also, if you want a user report, I suggest you go to http://www.rapidwinder.com and email the owner Tom Abrahamson. He has a pre-production model he has been kicking around for a few weeks. The short and sweet of his review is "Great Body at a Great Price."
Andre

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Grey Market Once More
you wrote:

>We clearly need to send Nikon USA a few standard textbooks in Total >Quality Management and remind them that they need to become customer driven.

I sent a copy of this to my Nikon "friends" for comment. The reply, from a Nikon USA employee.
===//===
Gray Market is products purchased in the U.S. that are from foreign Vendors who have brought products into the U.S. to sell! Anyone who proves that they purchased the product overseas as an end user (with receipts, etc) would be capable of receiving repair service from Nikon Inc..
We have not been involved in any case in R.I. or anywhere else (of which I am aware).
NO WE WONT FIX GRAY, EVER! YES WE WILL FIX PRODUCTS PURCHASED OVERSEAS BY PEOPLE OVERSEAS. ITS THAT SIMPLE.
Nikon has won several of the photo industry's highest honor - the NAPET award for photo service and support. ===/===
- --
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000
From: "Charles Pezeshki" pezeshki@moscow.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Grey market lenses
The real deal is certain dealers (like B&H;) handle such volume that they can make overseas buying trips to Japan and buy for cheaper. Also, some stuff is just cheaper overseas-- look at the Schneider 110XL-- $1400 from Robert White, some $2300 (as I recall) from B&H.; Now do you really believe that Schneider is going to ship a bunch of inferior lenses to Britain?
I can hear the dialogue in the Schneider factory right now: "Ja, dese vil go straight to dose British. Ve vill finally get back at them for Versailles! Less than maximum lpm, ja, that vil get them!" ;-)
Chuck

Date: 12 Jan 2000
From: dermoc@aol.com (DermoC)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 in London and Amsterdam $$$.....???
Not entirely correct, the price of the M711 from RW is approx $1150 give or take a few bucks. (depending on exchange rate)
Still a great savings, the real savings comes on the 43mm which can be had for $1375 ($2600 in US). Now we can really see how badly Mamiya America is screwing us.

[Ed. note: I find it fascinating that the medium format stuff is cheaper in U.K. than USA, but so much of the 35mm stuff is cheaper in USA than U.K. ;-)???]
From: Roland roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net
Newsgroups: uk.rec.photo.misc,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000
Subject: UK price rip-off
I wanted the Tamron 20-40mm F2.7-3.5 asph. autofocus for my Minolta. I looked for them secondhand here in the UK but there were none available. So I asked two shops for the price of a new one. I got quoted o625 and o650. That is over $1000. I know its a damn good lens but there are limits. So I tried the KEH site (http://www.keh.com). They had one secondhand for $339 and a NEW one for $399. That is less than half the price as in the UK!!!!
We are being ripped off over here. The government has been tackling the rip-off car prices we have over here but the percentage rip-off for cars is nowhere near what it is for photographic equipment. No wonder quality photography is dying out over here. Its being throttled by the greed of the big photography chain stores.
(grrrrr!)
Roland

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000
From: Simon.Pearson@britishcouncil.org
Subject: [NIKON] OT: UK Import tax (British subscribers only)
For all you fellow British subscribers, I thought you might like to know what tax you would have to pay if you ordered your Nikons over the internet from the States.
Obviously you pay the US price + postage/insurance, lets say that totals USD 500.
When it arrives in the UK you will then have to pay import tax and then VAT on top of all that. The import tax is extremely variable, depending on what you're importing: 4.2% still cameras / 0% digital still cameras / 6.7% lenses.
So using the example above, a still camera would cost:
(500+4.2%)+VAT(17.5%) = USD 612.18
a digital still camera would cost:
(500+0%)+VAT(17.5%) = USD 587.50
a lens would cost:
(500+6.7%)+VAT(17.5%) = USD 626.86
BTW this presumes that customs actually inspect your package, if they don't you don't pay ANY import duty or VAT :-)))
Sorry for the off topic, but thought you might like to know. I, for one, am sick and tired of paying over the odds for everything in 'rip off Britain' so will be taking my business overseas more and more.......
Cheers,
Simon

Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000
From: "W Scott Elliot" selliot@direct.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.technique.nature
Subject: Re: custom brokerage fees USA-Canada
UPS is supposedly one of the highest customs brokerage charges. If you read a recent add from B&H; they no longer even list UPS as one of their shipping options. The B&H; add lists shipping costs, including brokerage fees for the first and each additional pound, so they should be no surprise. They are Air Mail $13.00/!1.75, Express Mail $40.00/$4.00, Fed Ex Economy $28.00/$1.50 and Fed Ex priority $36.00/$3.50. Insurance is additional and there is a $500 value limit on Mail. It appears that Air Mail is the most economical for smaller value items and Fed Ex Economy for more expensive.
Canada Customs will collect GST or HST in the Atlantic provinces on all shipments. Within the past year or two they have also entered collection agreements with most of the provinces so they will also collect PST. Alberta of course has not PST. From a business stand point I find this fair. There is no way your local retailer should have to compete with foreign retailers whose sales are not subject to the same federal and provincial sales taxes.
At least locally, it is still viable to purchase many items from the US retailers because of their lower prices. I always give my local retailers first crack at the sale and will buy from them if they are anywhere close. If not I let them know I am buying from the US and how much I am paying. Hopefully that will give Canadian businesses incentive to get more competitive on an international scale. Some things such as camera bodies where a warranty claim might be necessary I only buy from a Canadian source.
Scott Elliot
http://mypage.direct.ca/s/selliot
.....

Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999
From: "Charles Nguyen" cnguyen@ecentral.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Cathay Photo won't quote me....
FYI
You can buy from Robert White in England with the same savings as Singapore.
Do a search for Robert White. Their Mamiya prices are about half than what you paid in the US. I read of successful transactions with R W.

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999
From: Lotusm50 lotusm50@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7II Pricing in Hong Kong (Re: 645 AF)
Only when it is being SOLD in that country. VAT is a tax on goods SOLD to the final consumer in that country. The reason there is no VAT on exports is because it is not sold to a final consumer in that country. There is no VAT on a camera coming in for repair, because there is no charge to anyone for the camera. VAT is collected on the final sale, no where else. It may be assessed, but since it is only paid on a sale, and the camera leave the country and is not sold any VAT assessed is cancelled. A repair is NOT a sale. I'm not even sure there is VAT on a service charge, if one has to be made. IF you send a camera into the UK for repair you WILL NOT be charged VAT on the value of your camera. Period. That's not the way VAT works.

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999
From: Lotusm50 lotusm50@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7II Pricing in Hong Kong (Re: 645 AF)
John Eisley eisley@nospam.com wrote:

> Lotusm50 wrote: > > > > > On the one hand, you save $1000 or more buying a Mamiya 7 + lens abroad, > > on the other hand there is a small chance that something might go wrong. > > If something does go wrong, send it back to the country of purchase for > > repair (ship cost back and forth, $85) Robert White gives you the UK > > warranty, some shops in Hong Kong are forcedto give it to you, without a > > warranty. Also, the UK/International warranty may be vaild in Canada, > > but I don't know this for sure ans that would be easier and cheaper > > still. Finally, if you HAD to have it fixed in USA, there is NOTHING > > that could go wrong that would cost a $1000. The Mamiya 7 is a simple > > box with a meter and a rangefinder, and some gears to transport film. > > Nothing costly to fix about that. So in almost all coases you save > > $1000+, in the very rare case that something goes wrong and you have to > > repair it in the USA (send it first to a third party repair shop) it may > > cost you $300, maybe $400 at the most. Still looks like a no brainer to > > me. > > > > And Robert White in the UK is a great person to deal with. > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy. > > Um, whereas it is certainly cheaper, it's not quite $1000 that you save. > Among other thigs don't forget to account for Mamiya US rebates/promotions. > Also, don't forget UK customs. > Interesting comment about the camera > being a box with a meter and gears :) Have you tried that line of reasoning > > in reality, when you have to get something expensive repaired? > > John

Well, Mamiya rebates and promotions, sometimes they are here, sometimes there aren't. Regardless they still don't make up much of the difference. The $1000 figure is quite conservative. With Mamiya's current rebates ($400 body, $100 lens) $2778 for Mamiya7II and 80mm lenses. If you refer back to the Hong Kong prices presented earlier, the price is $1539. That is a $1239 savings even with the rebates. (the savingsd is more if you buy a different lens as well). It is a $1739 savings without the rebates! Repairs on the Mamiya 7 are not that expensive. If yousend it to Mamiya America and they try to take you for too much, take it to a third party repair shop. I've had some pretty involved repairs done to some Contax 35mm bodies involving features way beyond anything in the Mamiya 7 (yes it IS a simple box with a meter + rangefinder) and the out-of-warranty cost (done by Contax USA) was always under $300. A Mamiya 7, in no way, would cost $1000 to fix unless you totally destroy it. In which case just buy a new body from Hong Kong for less than a $1000.
It is almost impossible to find ANY financial risk to buying your Mamiya 7 stuff abroad.

[Ed. note: Fiji ]
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000
From: Alan Murtagh murthog@gis.net
To: Robert Monaghan rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Re: Grey market camera savings-Fiji?
Bob,
Actually you had replied to this earlier email but I appreciate the follow-up. Slim pickings in Fiji, duty free pricing not bad, but nothing (in 5 stores we visited) in Pro level cameras or accessories. Lots of consumer type cameras, and some Olympus digital, but I never even saw any larger film cameras.Picked up some used accessories in New Zealand, as exchange rate is favorable but medium and large format cameras seem to be about the same as here
I think that I might try some shots on my old B&J; 4x5 and scan them into the computer and crop them to a panoramic.
regards
Alan

Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999
From: Shun Cheung "shun"@e-mail.addr.in.sig (Shun Cheung)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 in London and Amsterdam $$$.....???
oldguy@home.net wrote:

> Can anybody quote current pricing of a mamiya 7 > in lond and amsterdam? Going there right after the first > and would like to find a good deal. Prices here in usa > are nuts. > thanks

For prices in the UK, check Robert White's web site:
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/mamiya.htm#Label18
The price for the Mamiya 7II body is 725 pounds, or about US$1165. And a recent price my wife got when she was in Hong Kong is about US$965.
-- Shun Cheung New Jersey,USA shun(AT)att.net

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999
From: "Mark Houtzager" markhout@NOMORESPAMmagix.com.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 in London and Amsterdam $$$.....???
In Amsterdam the M7 with 80 mm would set you back approx. NLG 5000 inclusive of 17,5% Value Added Tax. That's USD 2250. If you are lucky enough to get the VAT back from Customs, it would cost you USD 1915.
Regards,
Mark

[Ed. note: main point here is that EBAY is changing the market for used stores too; KEH reportedly now into new gear sales, re-absorbed Dallas KEH Outlet Store 03/2000 etc...]
From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999
From: Colin Monteith monteith1@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Interesting note on 'Gray Market' on KEH site...
I think scare tactics like this are further evidence that KEH, B&H; etc. have their backs against the wall. Firstly the warranty on so called gray market is an International one that US and Canadian Hasselblad distributors have challenged in court and failed. Anyone with an International warranty can rest assured that they are covered. I think these distributors and of course KEH etc. are now realizing that the general public are finding out just how much money goes into the marketing and sponsorships of big name photographers in North America with some good honest pricing on the gray market. Nothing more than the people in the far east found out years ago with their own gray market. Another thing that these big name stores are finding out quick. The business on eBay has cut into these huge profit margins for used equipment. When they buy a piece of equipment used from you for 50 cents on the dollar, they then turn around and sell it for 80% of new. That's a big fat whopping 60% profit.
Then if you sell something on consignment, they will probably make you wait 3-4 weeks after they have been paid before you see any money. In other words, you are financing their inventory. Owners of these stores will lie their way out of this type of truthfulness but just ask anyone who has worked in these stores and the stories will raise the hair on the back of your head.
LONG LIVE GRAY MARKETS AND EBAY!!!!!
Austin Franklin wrote:

> Consumers BEWARE of GRAY MARKET Products > Gray market products are products manufactured for non-U.S. markets and > brought into the U.S. by non-licensed distributors. These items have not > been approved by the manufacturer for sale in the U.S. and therefore may > not be covered by U.S. warranties. While the product may appear to look the > same as U.S. warranted products, they do not always meet the performance > standards of U.S. products. As an Authorized Dealer of new merchandise, KEH > can guarantee you that all new products purchased through KEH will meet > U.S. specifications and be covered by the manufacturer's U.S. warranty. > > Ok, so how are the 'performance standards' different, as stated above, > between a US 'approved' product and one bought outside the US? > > This reeks of just plain scare tactic, with no factual basis. Does anyone > know any REALITY this may be based on?

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000
From: ntoge@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: help on grey market equipment in japan
chris purdum cpurdum@crcwnet.com wrote:

> Does anyone know of a list of places to get the best deals at or a FAQ > for buying grey market equipment in japan?

Used camera shops in Japan deal with new, used, and grey-market equipment, and there are rather many of these in Tokyo and Osaka areas. Web-based auction sites similar to eBay do exist in Japan, but they are not quite as active as the ones in US.
Your relative had better be able to read (and possibly speak) Japanese, or he/she had better have friends who can do that for him/her.
The most convenient and up-to-date sources for finding out the locations of the shops and their prices are the back pages of Japanese camera/photo magazines like "Asahi Camera" and "Nippon Camera".
You can find some info online at http://kiwi-us.com/~mizusawa/ penguin/CAMERA/CAMEmap/index.shtml, also.
- Nobu Toge (toge@lcdev.
kek.jp)

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999
From: Austin Franklin austin@darkroom.com
Subject: Cayman Pricing/US Pricing (was Portrait lense for 503 CW)...
just order it at about 60% off the B&H; prices.

[Austin] If you can get a $1200 list item, US 'discounted' to $1000, from Cayman for $400....that means Cayman probably pays $250-$300 for it. something just seems really, REALLY, wrong with that.
Does anyone have some real examples of what they actually paid for items at Cayman (picked up there, or if 'sent' please let us know what it cost to have it 'sent')?
Geese, this really makes the back of my neck bristle....is this what these guys on eBay, who are selling NEW items are doing? Buying, say, an A24 back (say list is $800) for $480 or less and selling them on eBay for $600 as new? For $200, I can have that back repaired two or three times for what I save buying it from Cayman...

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999
From: Peter Klosky Peter.Klosky@trw.com
Subject: Re: Portrait Lens for 503 CW
Ting,
I just checked my expense book for 1999 and found an entry for $1739 to Cyman for a 150CF. This included the FedEx fee, but not the $60 or so for duty. The 150CF she had was not the latest model available at the time. I think they have a 150CFi now, or something. B&H; has that at $2867 plus shipping. Again, send her email for a specific item, and she sends a quote.
Peter
"javalee" javalee@email.msn.com
Hi Peter,
what is the price for the 150 from Caymen?? any idea what they are asking for the 80??
tks in adv.
best,
Ting

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000
From: ad579@freenet.carleton.ca (John Kiss)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.35mm
Subject: Re: The best mail-order store in Canada???
Jules Whittom wrote in message ...

>I'm just looking to buy a new Nikon here in Canada. Who are the best >mail-order or Internet resellers? > >If I buy in USA, what's about the guarantee? And the custom fee?

Jules,
I live in Ottawa and have bought many new items from B&H; in New York.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
They will quote shipping costs up front and there are no "suprises".
Their prices are much better than anywhere in Canada.
I have everything shipped regular Air Mail which means that there is only a $5 Customs processing fee regardless of the amount of the shipment.
You will, of course, have to pay GST & PST on the value.
There is no "duty" per-se on camera equipment.
It is best to avoid the couriers, (FedEx, etc.), because they charge huge "customs brokerage" fees, (usually in the $50 range on a $1,000) order.
This is the weird part;
If you buy equipment with a "U.S. Warranty" any official Nikon repair depot in Canada can do warranty work on it for the duration of the original warranty.
If you decide to save some money and buy a "gray markey" item with an "International Warranty" you will have to send it back to B&H; for warranty work.
This is all explained in a section on the B&H; website.
If you buy an extended manufacturer's warranty the article will likely have to be sent back to B&H; during the extended period even if you bought an item with an initial U.S. Warranty, (at least that is the case with Canon).
I called Canon Canada and they indicated that they could be "flexible" in the matter of honouring extended Canon warranties issued in the U.S. but I suppose one should not count on the fact.
Personally, I buy bodies with a U.S. Warranty and everything else gray market.
I am not concerned about sending anything back to B&H; because they are authorized service depots for most of the products they carry.
B&H; is the most reputable mail order operation and I have always had excellent service.
Hope this helps.....
Regards,
John Kiss

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000
From: "Curfman, Donald (GEIS)" Donald.Curfman@geis.ge.com
Subject: [NIKON] RE: A shocker

>> further, they were not required by law >> to even return it. > > I do not think that the last clause is true for Nikon.

Yep, that's one more US law that backfires sometimes. It may be a Postal Service Regulation -- maybe it doesn't apply to private carriers. It definitely applies to anything sent through the US Mail.
A person is guaranteed that they will not incur any liability or obligation simply by accepting a package that is addressed to them.
If you send something to someone without an agreement to the contrary (or worse, when they have stated that they do not want that item shipped to them), they don't have to ship it back, they don't have to pay for it, and they don't even have to give it to the shipper if he shows up on their doorstep and begs.
They incur NO obligation whatsoever if the ONLY action they took was to accept the shipment.
Since Nikon USA has the stated policy that they do not accept grey market items for repair, if you mail one to them without their explicit approval, it's theirs.
- -Don

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000
From: "Tomasz Chady" chady@cc.oita-u.ac.jp
Subject: [NIKON] Buying Nikon in Japan
Hello,
If you are going to buy Nikon in Tokyo I would like to suggest you to visit MAP-Camera shop in Akihabara or Shinjuku

Map Camera Nishi Shinjuku 1-13-6 Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 160 Tel: (03) 3342-3382 Fax: (03) 3342-3422

Near Shinjuku Station's West exit, and close to Yodobashi Camera
They have also internet shop, quite fast and convenient service (http://www.mapcamera.com/). It is in Japanese but they can answer in something similar to English (like this letter). In my opinion they have lower prices than the Yodobashi camera (http://www.yodobashi.co.jp). They are offering also something strange called "second hand not used". Looks as quite new, with 1-year world wide warranty and cheaper then new.
E.g.. in case of F100
MAP camera internet shop new 142 000Y + 5%tax
MAP camera "second hand not used" 125 000Y +5%tax
Usual camera shop new 152 000Y +5%tax
It is also very good web page in English, which consists a lot of information about shops and second hand shops
http://photojpn.org/DIR/vendors.html
Tomasz
PS I am not Japanese and I am not staying in Tokyo so may be there are some better shops...

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999
From: austin@darkroom.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: RE: special offer

>Personally I don't care if Rich or Henry gets the business, but I do want to >set 1 matter straight......

I believe you are correct in that it is primarily for 'trademark' protection...but...Mamiya USA owns the trademark of 'Mamiya' in the US, and they are separate from Mamiya elsewhere. Given this, the 'Mamiya' trademark, if brought in to the US from elsewhere, is in violation of their US trademark...and as such, is 'illegal' to import...unless you want to scratch the word 'Mamiya' from the item. So, even if you bought a legitimate Mamiya made camera, that is the exact same as the one that is sold in the US, it is still, technically, a trademark violation, unless it was 'sanctioned' by Mamiya US. Kind of an interesting way to 'work' the system...

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999
From: Dan Bereskin bereskin@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: special offer
I'm an IP attorney, and essentially agree with Frank, and disagree with Henry (it's nice to know something Henry doesn't-this is a first for me!). It is legal to import and resell genuine goods, provided the seller does not directly or indirectly misrepresent the goods. For example, when selling "unauthorized" Hasselblad products, it's important to make it clear that the buyer cannot look to Hasselblad USA for warranty work. Barring a misrepresentation, it is legal to sell genuine goods irrespective whether they were obtained from the "authorized" US source. As in most things, one gets what one pays for. No one doubts the right of B & H to sell goods at low prices, even though this produces a hardship on small independent dealers. OTOH, if you want expert, thoughtful advice in connection with a significant purchase, you can get much better service from small dealers than big mail order chains. With grey goods, you have to hope nothing goes wrong with the goods, or that if it does, the importer will be around, and will be willing to honor whatever guarantee they promised. If you get burned, that's the price you pay for your "bargain".
....

[Ed. note: see correction below...]
From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999
From: LEO WOLK bigleo@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: special offer
US Customs Update 9/23/99
Camera Bodies imported as commercial goods (for resale) carry NO duty.
Camera Lenses imported as commercial goods carry 3.2% duty.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999
From: LEO WOLK bigleo@worldnet.att.net
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: special offer & Customs
Actually these customs rates have been in effect since November of 1998. I was trying to illustrate the point that customs duties aren't nearly as onerous as most people suspect. One of the many reasons that "direct importing" has boomed.
US Customs harmonized code: 9006.51.00 Cameras.....Free
US Customs harmonized code: 9002.19.00 Lenses......2.3%
Nota Bene: I made a mistake in my original posting, the duty on lenses is now 2.3% (as of 11/99) down from the 3.2% I quoted (old rate). Also remember...anything made in NAFTA countries (USA, Canada, Mexico) is now FREE. This doesn't affect anything this list would be interested in except perhaps Canadian Leitz lenses.
Again, this is for goods imported commercially, that is, for resale.
Good Luck, Leo.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999
From: Frank Filippone red735i@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: special offer
I feel no obligation to subsidise the bloated overheads of Nikon USA, Hasselblad USA, etc.
Leo.... while I agree with your feelings, the issue of the Nikon USA and Hasselblad USA is one of double profits. The thinking g\oes something like this..... as an Independent Company, although 100% owned by the Parent, they feel "entitled" maybe even required, to make a profit on their sales. The profit is typically 30-40%. This pays for THEIR local cost of doing business.
The fault in the argument is that the parent is recouping the EXTRA profits. It is double profit. Simple and parochial. The local costs should be accounted for in the parent as a G+A expense. At least that is my opinion.
BTW, we have several instances whereby Mamiya stuff is supposedly 50% less than NYC prices in Japan and Hong Kong ( may be heresay as I have no direct knowledge.) So where is the extra USA profits going if not to Mamiya Japan?
I know this will sound stupid, but the practicioners of localized pricing practices think their customers are idiots. IN Europe, until recently, there were different prices ( independent of country duties) in countries as far spread as Italy and Germany: France and Belgium. How much different? I am told 30-50%.
Archaic and protectionist for their own people.
Frank

Date: 23 Sep 1999
From: ttanaka@uoguelph.ca (Takuji Tanaka)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Importing lens/camera into Canada?
Michael McGoldrick (ab174@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

: I'm wondering if fellow Canadians could tell me : what kind of experience they have had ordering : cameras and lens from the big mail orders houses : in the U.S. : I understand there is no duty on the lens and : cameras coming into Canada, but that shipping : fees do includes custom clearance charges (and : that taxes will be collected). Does this sound : right?

I bought a lens from B&H; a few years ago. At that time they used UPS as the shipping method. UPS charged me $35 brokerage fee, and total cost ended up not so differnet from a local shop. Now B&H; uses FedEx, which INCLUDES the brokerage fee in their shipping charge. Also Canada Post charges only $5 brokerage. I think either FedEx or air mail is the way to go. Consider it before using a mail order company whose shipping option is only UPS.
Tak

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999
From: Dan Bereskin bereskin@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: special offer
What ever happened to the "American Way" idea that it's OK for anyone to make as much profit as they legally can? The reality is that the prices charged in the USA for practically anything, are cheaper than almost anywhere else.
I'm no economist, but in the US there is intense competition, a big market, and relatively low taxation. That's why, for e.g., Europeans visiting the U.S. stock up on french, swiss and german cosmetics that are more expensive in Europe than in the States.
I'm all for B & H and Camera World, etc. because they do have great service coupled with low prices, but don't expect a salesperson to spend a half hour on the telephone with you in guiding you toward a major purchase.
These places, as has been suggested before, are for people who know exactly what they want, and are seeking the lowest price. B & H has always been extremely honest with me-there's never any doubt whether you're getting authorized goods, or B & H warranted goods.
There are some industries though (photography excluded, I think) that are badly hurt by grey goods importation. Grey goods importers like anyone else are interested in maximizing their profits, and if it's too costly for them to market to small communities, they won't. They don't pay a cent to build up the infrastructure that often is important to establishing and maintaining the integrity of a brand. They contribute nothing towards advertising which leads to economies of scale.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999
From: Frank Filippone red735i@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: special offer
Hold it Dan....you have forgotten that in this case, Hasselblad USA is 100% owned by Hasselblad Sweden. This is not a unique case, but for the camera makers, it is certainly the norm.
Double profit is a gouge, perpetrated by the local company. To enforce their profit strtucture they use a thing called MAP... minimum advertised price. This is the minimum price that can be advertised for the advertiser to recoup some of the cost in the advertising as coop costs..... That is why all the NYC ads have exactly the same retail advertised price on Hassy stuff. Sales prices can be different (Robinson Pactman Act)
As far as infrastructure, etc goes, it is the same comapny. Same budget as far as I am concerned. Just a different line item on the budget sheet....
Frank

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: special offer
I certainly agree with your comments. Overtime I go to Grand Cayman I load up on Hasselblad equipment since it is about 40% off US prices.
Have yet to see what Hasselblad USA does to earn the 40%.

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999
From: Andy Peters apeters@noao.edu
Subject: online sales
There was a good, enlightening article in _The Industry Standard_ back in May about online camera sales.
http://www.thestandard.com/articles/display/0,1449,4636,00.html
Basically, the camera manufacturers want to keep "the value of their products at a higher level," which sounds (to me) like a euphemism for "maximizing profits."
"Cuddling up to a supplier typically involves an agreement by which the manufacturer helps pay for a retailer's advertising. As long as the retailer agrees not to market the product below a minimum advertised price, the advertising budget is replenished. If the store advertises below the MAP, the manufacturer pulls its money, and, on occasion, its product.
" 'If a customer can flip through a magazine or look across the Internet and always find the same price, that makes the customer less likely to bargain,' explains Errera. "
a
Andy Peters
Sr. Electrical Engineer
National Optical Astronomy Observatories

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999
From: "W Scott Elliot" Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Importing lens/camera into Canada?
For those of you who live in British Columbia, there is bad news. Effective October 1, the B.C. government and Canada Customs will implement an agreement by which Canada Customs will collect PST for B.C. This is similar to the arrangement in many other provinces.
Until now, Canada Customs have not been collecting B.C. PST and residents were supposed to find some way of paying it themselves. Surprisingly, few people went to the trouble of trying to figure out how to pay PST on imported items.
Scott

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999
From: jalbert@nyx.nyx.net (Joseph Albert)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: New Camera Prices in Dollars vs. Yen (Re: Why is there a lot of Mamiya 6 & 7 FS?
interphoto interphoto@pop02.odn.ne.jp wrote:

>To my understanding, the importation of merchandise bearing the >MAMIYA trademarks, without the written consent of Mamiya >America Corporation, is unlawful and prohibited, >at least the Mamiya America insists so. For more info: > >http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mamiyaamericacorporation/

from the website:
3.Descriptions such as "like new" or "mint" which imply that the product(s) is (are) not used will require trademark approval and source of purchase must be disclosed to the General Manager at Mamiya America Corp. Again, if the product(s) is (are) labeled as "used" in combination with any other description, no restrictions apply.
4.If the product was purchased from outside of the United States (except personal tourist purchases carried on someone's person), the source of purchase must be disclosed to us with a copy of the customs entry form filed by the original purchaser.

so, that's why you don't see grey market Mamiya stuff at B&H; and other vendors. I find this whole thing rather despicable. In the early 90's the dollar dropped way down relative to the yen, and camera prices in the US went way up as a result. After Clinton was first elected, the US economy had a major rebound, and the dollar went way up vs. the yen and other currencies. And, guess what: the new camera prices in the US stayed high, but are at their appropriate level in Asia. Mamiya America instead is constantly having promotions to offer free lenses and rebates with the purchase of hyper-inflated new camera equipment, thus effectively forcing people to buy more stuff when they buy, and the net price is still no bargain.
this isn't just Mamiya, but they seem to have taken this to the highest level.
I think this is bad PR for them in the long run, but it must reflect the supply-demand situation in that they evidently can sell all they want at a low price outside and sell everything else in the US at the higher price.
Joseph Albert

Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999
From: "Michael S. Briggs" MS.Briggs@cwix.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Why is there a lot of Mamiya 6 & 7 FS?
interphoto wrote:
cut.....

> To my understanding, the importation of merchandise bearing the > MAMIYA trademarks, without the written consent of Mamiya > America Corporation, is unlawful and prohibited, > at least the Mamiya America insists so. For more info: > > http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mamiyaamericacorporation/

Importation of Mamiya items is allowed under certain conditions. Some quotations from the U.S. Customs Service publication "Know Before You Go" on trademark-protected articles:
"Returning travelers are allowed an exemption, usually one article of each type bearing a protected trademark. "One article of each type" means one pair of shoes, ...., one camera,........."
"These exempted articles must accompany you at the time of your return, be for your personal use, and may not be sold within a year of importation. You may claim this exemption for the same type of article only once every 30 days."
Under these rules, I don't see how Mamiya USA can prevent you from describing an item as "Like New" (as described in their text at the ebay www address) if you purchased it in the USA or brought it in on your person and kept it for 1 year. Assuming, of course, that it is "Like New". Of course, ebay owns the site, so if they wish to allow Mamiya USA to prevent Mamiya stuff from being described as "like new" on ebay, they can do so.
The whole issue of restrictions on trademarked goods is discussed at:
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.html

[Ed. note: for your info only; expect more arbitrage in future!...]
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999
From: "suicheong" lovesu@mailcity.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: buying cameras from singapore
Hi everyone,
I can help u guys to buy cheaper NEW SLR, MEDIUM FORMAT, HANDYCAM, DISCMAN at better Singapore Prices!
I only charge a small handling fee of US$30-50 for each purchase !
If u are interest I can give the prices on this camera! prices are base on major electronic supermart: they have a fix price. But i will buy the items from vendors i know , cheaper by S$10-50 maybe more depending on what model.
please real buyers only!
Any additional discount given by the vendors will be Refund back unless u are going to tip me for my service
shipping will be using Singapore postal service( Sin dollars ) u can choose from the methods of shipping!
Express AIR(2-3 days): with a tracking nos which can be track using USPS tracking service!
Ordinarly AIR(7-10 days) must add insurance ( 10-20 SIN dollars)
Surface (4-8 weeks): cheapest but I don't think u want this method and i don't encourage this method.
please email me for more information
den311@mbox5.singnet.com.sg
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com

[Ed. note: again, no endorsement, just posted for your info, and as an example of future arbitrage of prices and overseas agents buying where lower costs and mailing to higher cost countries via consumer links over Internet etc...]
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
From: "suicheong" lovesu@mailcity.com
Subject: Buying new cheap cameras@@
Hi everyone,
I can help u guys to buy cheaper NEW SLR, MEDIUM FORMAT, HANDYCAM, DISCMAN at better Singapore Prices!
I only charge a small handling fee of US$30-50 for each purchase !
If u are interest I can give the prices on this camera! prices are base on major electronic supermart: they have a fix price. But i will buy the items from vendors i know , cheaper by S$10-50 maybe more depending on what model.
please real buyers only!
Any additional discount given by the vendors will be Refund back unless u are going to tip me for my service
shipping will be using Singapore postal service( Sin dollars )
u can choose from the methods of shipping!
Express AIR(2-3 days): with a tracking nos which can be track using USPS tracking service!
Ordinarly AIR(7-10 days) must add insurance ( 10-20 SIN dollars)
Surface (4-8 weeks): cheapest but I don't think u want this method and i don't encourage this method.
please email me for more information
den311@mbox5.singnet.com.sg
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com

Date: 04 Aug 1999
From: heavysteam@aol.com (Heavysteam)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Buying new cheap cameras@@
http://www.mamiya.com/Section1/Sitemap/Disclaimer/disclaim.htm
TRADEMARKS AND GRAY MARKET WARNING NOTICE
Mamiya America Corporation has registered the MAMIYA and SEKONIC Trademarks with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (PTO), and has recorded these marks with the United States Customs Service for import protection in accordance with 19 C.F.R. Part 133.
Under Section 526 (a) of the Tariff Act of 1930, the importation of any foreign-origin merchandise bearing the MAMIYA or SEKONIC trademarks, without the written consent of Mamiya America Corporation, is unlawful and prohibited. Unauthorized importations are subject to seizure and forfeiture by the United States Customs Service.
Mamiya America Corporation has directed Customs to enforce these trademarks aggressively, and to prohibit the importations of "gray-market" merchandise. Mamiya America Corporation will also pursue all of its available remedies for injunctive relief and damages against any persons who import, distribute, sell or otherwise deal in gray market merchandise bearing these marks.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999
From: Peter Klosky Peter.Klosky@trw.com
Subject: Re: Name of dealer in hong kong
I typed "Hong Kong Cameron" at this list's archive. Results follow.
Mark Palmer at SF x4221 MPalmer@matson.com Does anybody know the name of the Hasselblad dealer in Kowloon on Lock Rd run by Mr Chin.
I think it is called Cameron Photo is that correct?
5. Re: Prices of lens in Hong Kong
Don't know the prices, but a great Hasselblad dealer is Cameron Photo on Lock Road, just underneath the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Kowloon. They are honest and carry a great supply of Hasselblad, Leica, and Nikon. Next to them is Francisco Photo, they sell used Hasselblad and Leica. They are brothers.
6. Re: quote usa/APP
David; Here's the info you requested: Cameron Photo Co. Shop No. G35, Hyatt Regency Hotel 16 Lock Rd. Kowloon, Hong Kong Phone: 011 852 2369-1063 Fax: 011 852 2739-8575 Mr. K.M. Chin is the owner. A fine gentlemen and a pleasure to deal with.
Regards, Dave F

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999
From: Gary Drainville gary@ns.sympatico.ca
Newsgroups: rec.photo.help,rec.photo.misc
Subject: Re: need help on mail camera to toronto through the customs
Chin-Fan So wrote:

> Any body has friends mail camera stuff for them in Toronto either by post > office or express comapany, I want to know how would the customs deal with > it. > My friend work in DHL said the custom will just have to trust the value of > the goods inside, there is no way they can proof it's value, u can say it's > used, gifts or something.., then we will have to pay 25% of the values as > duty, is that alright? > > Direct email is welcome! > Any comment will be greatly appreciate! ^_^

All camera equipment is duty free. If it's over $1500 I have found there to be a different process involved, you must send a letter stating that you authorized XXXX shipping company to release said items and that you will pay the taxed on them. The goods would also be held in Customs for 2 days. I would stick with FedEx as all the brokerage fee are included in the shipping charges.
I just bought a $2000CDN camera from the states - paid no duty, just taxes.
Send it as a gift and you shouldn't have any trouble at all. Good luck.
--
Gary Drainville
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/gary/

Date: Mon, 17 May 1999
From: Markus Glueck markus.glueck@art-time.de
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: How to buy a Mamiya on Iceland?

> Does anyone know where to buy a mamiya on Iceland? Webadress?

Take a look at http://www.wfv.de or http://www.ppl.de . These are german mailorders which ship, as far as I know worldwide.
If you have problems reading german, you may contact me, for help...
Which Mamiya do you want to buy ? RZ, 645 ?
--
CU,
Markus.
URL: http://www.art-time.de

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: Buying from the Cayman Islands
I have bought over $10,000.00 of the Hasselblad system from Mrs. Colleen McGaw, the owner of Cayman Camera LTD. Some was bought on the island and some was shipped to my home via overnight FedEx.
She is a super person and gracious lady. Her husband is a banker on the island.
Prices are super competitive and the merchandise is the same as you buy here in the States.
This is one of those things that seems too good to be true, but, in fact, it just seems too good to be true because it really happens.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000
From: "Jack L. Casner" jackinkc@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Buying from the Cayman Islands
Ditto this. I bought a complete system fo Colleen and dam most satisfied. I ordered at 9:00 AM on day and the FEDEX man was at my door at 10:15 AM the next.
Jack Casner
Kansas City
Postscript: http://cayman.com.ky/com/caycamer/

From Hasselblad mailing list;
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: Buying from the Cayman Islands

Mrs. Colleen McGaw Vice President Cayman Camera Ltd. P. O. Box 2172 G.T. Grand Cayman, British West Indies Tel: 1-345-949-8359 Fax: 1-345-945-1874 caycamer@candw.ky

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: BLADHASS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
My friend just bought a Hasselblad Xpan from the Cayman Islands $1411 total. He ordered it on Wednesday and had it on Thursday by 9:30am. Now thats great service we live in Seattle, so I guess that Xpan booked a direct flight.
Peter Peterson

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: Peter Klosky Peter.Klosky@trw.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
Jerry,
My experience is that Fedex will send an "import duty advanced" bill. You can hope they get the duty of 2.3% or so correct. Took me months to get them straight on this.
Peter
When he bought the Hassey from the Cayman Islands what duty did he pay to have imported into the US?????
Jerry

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
jarosenfeld@home.com writes:
When he bought the Hassey from the Cayman Islands what duty did he pay to have imported into the US????? Jerry
Sometimes there is no duty!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: Fivewest@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
Cayman Camera sells duty free cameras. Send E-mail to caycamer@candw.ky or
http://cayman.com.ky/com/caycamer/index.htm

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: Jack Casner jackinkc@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
Matches my experience!
Jack Casner
BLADHASS@aol.com wrote:

> My friend just bought a Hasselblad Xpan from the Cayman Islands $1411 total. > He ordered it on Wednesday and had it on Thursday by 9:30am. Now thats great > service we live in Seattle, so I guess that Xpan booked a direct flight. > Peter Peterson

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: Jack Casner jackinkc@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
I'm not saying that this happened to me. And I'm not saying it didn't!
Jack Casner

> Jerry > Sometimes there is no duty!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: BLADHASS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
My friend pay for the camera plus shipping and insurance $90. I think I could sell my like new CF lens and get the new CFi glass from Cayman with little outlay over the selling price. I just wish that the over $15000 I have spent over the last 4 years was spent with Cayman Camera.
Peter Peterson
PS that Xpan is very, very cool, plus very quiet, and very well built.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000
From: BLADHASS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
Don I could not come up with her name, so thanks. Its amazing all the great feedback about her business. If you think about it could you check out the new PME45, I wonder what her price is. She told me that she has not found out yet, but that was over 2 weeks ago. My same friend is now wishing he knew about her before he bought is new Contax 645 system. Of course that Contax does have some nice features, But its no Hasselblad, but its also very, very, cool.
Peter Peterson

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000
From: Jack Casner jackinkc@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
Hi, all. I bought my Hasselblad outfit from Ms. McGraw and I never found a more courteous, honest person anywhere else. At the time I bought she didn't sell Contax and the only other medium format camera I could get from here would have been the Pentax 645 or 67 II. Not bad cameras, but I did opt for the Hasselblad.
Like others here I also experienced twenty-four hour delivery.
Jack Casner

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000
From: Dan Cardish dcardish@microtec.net
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
I too know someone who got a great del on a Hasselblad setup bought at Cayman Camera. How does someone in either Canada or the USA get warranty service done on equipment purchased there?
Dan C.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000
From: Jack Casner jackinkc@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Cayman Islands Hassie dealer
Dan, so far as I know, Hasselblad USA honors the international warranty. Cayman is an authorized Hasselblad agency.
I received no negative replies when I forwarded my warranty cards to Hasselblad USA. That may not mean anything unless I need warranty work.
I hope somebody more knowledgeable than me (that would be anybody) talks to this issue.
Jack Casner
Kansas City, Missouri

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sat May 13 2000
From: Duncan Ross duncan@DuncanRossPhoto.com
[1] Re: Mamiya America uses dirty tricks
Here is the customs page on cameras - See Chapter 90. I don't know about the trademark issue, though it would seem that all you might have to do is remove the name plate?
http://DATAweb.usitc.gov/SCRIPTS/tariff/toc_page_1.html#section_18
....

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000
From: Colin Monteith monteith1@sympatico.ca
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: 150 or 180 ?
Try Harrysproshop - prices quoted in Canadian but there is a currency converter for US. Excellent service and I have used him many times.
http://harrysproshop.com/Products/Hasselblad_SLRs/hasselblad_slrs.html
BLADHASS@aol.com wrote:

> Carsten > Do check out the Cayman Islands Hasselblad dealer. I know that she sells a > 80mm CFi for $1277 and the new 350mm CFE for $5200. > Peter Peterson

From: "Mr. S. Holmes" holmes2704@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.35mm,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Where is the cheapest place to buy a camera?(outside the US?)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000
Gilad Kedem wrote:

> Hi. > > I'm going to Nepal quite soon where I was told prices of cameras are > exceptionally low. I'm looking at an EOS 5 with a few decent lenses. > Does anyone have solid information about this? Is it cheaper in Nepal > than in B&H; in New York City? > > Please reply to gkedem@actcom.co.il. > > Thanks, > > Gilad. > > Gilad Kedem > gkedem@actcom.co.il

Gilad,
don't do this. If you are going to a trustworthy place in Katmandu (and these are mostly along the New Road in Katmandu) you will find that the prices are usually B&H; + 5-10% -- this is the way it was half a year ago and I don't think things changed. They even keep last issues of Popular Photography where you can check B&H; prices. You may find cheaper deals, but ... Pokhara and Dunche (not to mention Israel ...) are far away from Katmandu (even if it seems different when you are looking at your map) and if your "new" camera fails to work, you are on your own. Next best place after US (and sometimes even better if you don't have to pay VAT) is Germany, specifically try
http://www.ny-camera.com/english/index.html.
But if you have an option to buy in US -- don't think twice. BTW, film in Nepal is cheaper than in US and in Israel, Kodak and Fuji negative film available all over Katmandu (Kodak ISO 100 even in the hills if you are not getting too fancy -- I mean stick to usual tourist areas). Nonetheless I'd recommend to take enough film with you, but at least you have a backup. I have developed negative films there: the processing is of very acceptable quality and much cheaper than in Israel. Especially enlargements are a bargain (24x30 is about $2). You may contact me off-line and I'll be glad to answer you photo/Nepal questions.
Best.
SH

From: kirbyko3@aol.com (Kirbyko3)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Mamiya prices in the US and the UK
Date: 11 May 2000
I recently bought a Mamiya 645 ProTL via mail order from a store in Hong Kong, along with a couple lenses and accessories (like an extra 120 back), and the total package price came out to about $2800. The same thing, purchased here in the US, would've run me about $6000. Sure, the stuff doesn't have a US warranty because it's gray market, but in the off-chance that something breaks, I don't mind spending a couple hundred bucks fixing it when I saved (literally) thousands in the first place.
I looked at Robert White first, and found the HK prices to be even cheaper. As for duty, with the purchase price being $2800, I ended up with a bill from UPS for about $28 for duty + their fee for putting it through customs.
Kerry

[Ed. note: interesting tip for UK buyers...]
uk.rec.photo.misc
[1] Re: Buying from US dealers in the UK
From: dNOSPAMcvetkovic99@plymouth.ac.uk
Date: Tue May 16 2000

"Tony Parkinson" arparkinson@btinternet.com writes:

> since it only seems to be about 1/2 to 2/3 the price after shipping, has > anyone tried buying camera gear mail order from the USA ? > > If so, how much did HM C&E; hit you for VAT & Excise Duty and was it still a > worthwhile saving ?

C&E; is about 5-6% and VAT is 17.5%. If you add p&p; from USA (at least 25 pounds from B&H; I would say), this price advantage is not so great. Better buy from NY Camera in Germany (www.ny-camera.com): no HM C&E;, you pay german VAT which is 16% instead of 17.5% and p&p; is much more modest. No relations with them, just a happy customer. Bye,
Dragan

From: Hombre hombre_2@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: aus.photo
Subject: Importing a Camera from the US
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000
I rang Australian customs today to find out the charges associated with importing gear from the US (specifically my enquiry regarded a digital camera Olympus 2020z at $US568 which converts to about $Au990). The same camera costs between $Au1900 and $Au2000 here in the camera shops.
The first call was answered by a really off hand guy who just wanted to get rid of me - he offered no explanations for how rates were calculated, options available to me etc - call took 55seconds.
Undeterred I rang again and got a really helpful guy (thanks Bob) and he gave me the following info (over the course of our 10 minute phone call).
As of July 1 2000 (when our new 10% GST comes in here in Aus), import duty rate on a digital camera is still 5%. Then, after adding in freight costs (in my case they are $Au170) and customs entry charge (this is $Au30 - but Bob said that is what customs charge the carrier and that the carrier tacks on their own fee for dealing with customs entry on top of this which could take it up to as high as $100) a 10% GST will be applied to the total:
$Au990 purchase price
+$Au50 duty
+$Au170 freight and insurance
+$Au100 customs entry charge (I'm not sure, but this may already be included in the freight and insurance charge above)
TOTAL $Au1310 (or maybe $Au1210 if I have double counted the freight and insurance charge).
Plus GST 10% = $Au131 (or $Au121)
TOTAL $Au1441 (or at best $Au1331)
Still a pretty good saving over buying locally - although bear in mind that the $1900 local price will no doubt drop quite a bit too when the GST comes in.
Then Bob mentioned that if I knew someone in the U.S., I could get them to buy for me and send it via United States Postal Service (USPS). This has several attractive benefits:
(1) I can get the camera at a cheaper price as the cheaper (yet stil reputable) retailers in the states will not ship direct to Australia (eg. Buy.com or Onvia). So instead of paying someone like BuyDig (Worldwide Direct) $US568 for the privelege of getting it shipped to Australia (not to mention the $US98 they want to charge me for freight and insurance), I can get my friend to buy from Onvia and they will get it delivered to their door for $US520 (using a $30 rebate coupon).
(2) My friend can then send the camera to me via USPS - this costs about $US20 and includes insurance up to a value of $US500 for any loss or damage. Only takes 2-3 days too.
(3) As the purchase value of the goods is below $Au1000, Australian Customs do not levy the $Au30 customs entry charge (and of course I also escape any additional customs handling fees that a courier might have tacked on top).
All in all, the camera would cost $Au905 plus $Au45 duty + $Au35 postage and insurance = $Au985 plus GST $Au98 = grand total $Au1087. Even if the cameras drop dramatically in price here in Australia after July 1, I can't see them getting anywhere near $1087 (be lucky if they hit $1600-$1700).
Is there anyone out there that can see any flaws in my plan above? Is USPS no good (seems OK on paper - especially with loss and damage insurance). I am not doing anything fraudulent here - even if it is a bit convoluted.
As an aside I also asked the helpful customs man what the story is on gifts. He said that unless the value is below $200 that there is no sense in getting your Mum to send you the package as a gift. At less than $200 - customs doesn't bother collecting duty - but at greater than that they collect the full amount - gift or not.
I provide the info above as a guide to anyone that is interested. If you have anything to add (or correct) please post it.
Scott Caddaye

Date: Tue, 16 May 2000
From: Brian brianp@omen.net.au
Newsgroups: aus.photo
Subject: Re: Importing a Camera from the US
Scott
Have a look at:
http://www.customs.gov.au/bizlink/imports/general/index.htm#6
...Brian
Hombre wrote:

> I rang Australian customs today to find out the charges associated with > importing gear from the US (specifically my enquiry regarded a digital > camera Olympus 2020z at $US568 which converts to about $Au990). The > same camera costs between $Au1900 and $Au2000 here in the camera shops.

.....

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: kirbyko3@aol.com (Kirbyko3)
[1] Re: Boycott Mamiya America products!
Date: Tue May 30 2000
I few months ago made the leap to medium format with a Mamiya 645 ProTL, and extra 120 back, and a couple lenses. The total price, including tax (I live in NYC and use B&H; for just about everything) would've run me $6000 if I had bought it here.
Instead, I went through a dealer in Hong Kong -- the total price, including UPS priority shipping + insurance? $2500.
Can we say, "I love grey market"?
:)
Kerry

From: "James Chow" drjchow@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: queries on Robert White, UK
I've ordered from RW twice. Top-notch service. I paid about 4% duty (to UPS) for a schneider LF lens. Despite what MamUSA may say, you are permitted to import ONE trademarked item for personal use. Trademarked means you can't import a dozen items and sell them.
--Jim
"Harsh Agrawal" tabla@pcisys.net wrote

> I was wondering if any of you have had any experience ordering equipment > from Robert White, U.K. ? I am considering buying a Mamiya 7II system from > him because the Mamiya USA prices are outrageous! Any ideas what kind of > duty I'll have to pay when the camera arrives in the US? > > Thanks in advance! > > -Harsh Agrawal

From: "don ferrario" don@ferrario.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: queries on Robert White, UK
The duty itself is 3%, but if the shipper is UPS or Fedex, they will also charge a brokerage fee. I just got a lens shipped to me by UPS, value of $1300, and the UPS driver collected an additional $75 (!!!) in duty and brokerage fees!
Insist the shipper use the postal service. They will collect only the actual duty - no brokerage fee.
bye for now,
don ferrario
http://www.ferrario.com/don
720 nikon links at http://www.nikonlinks.com
Harsh Agrawal tabla@pcisys.net wrote

> I was wondering if any of you have had any experience ordering equipment > from Robert White, U.K. ? I am considering buying a Mamiya 7II system from > him because the Mamiya USA prices are outrageous! Any ideas what kind of > duty I'll have to pay when the camera arrives in the US? > > Thanks in advance! > > -Harsh Agrawal

From: Herb Sauer hsauer@uswest.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: queries on Robert White, UK
Brian Walsh wrote:

> don ferrario wrote: > > > > The duty itself is 3%, but if the shipper is UPS or Fedex, > > they will also charge a brokerage fee. I just got a lens > > shipped to me by UPS, value of $1300, and the UPS driver > > collected an additional $75 (!!!) in duty and brokerage fees! > > > > Insist the shipper use the postal service. They will collect > > only the actual duty - no brokerage fee. > > Interesting. I've never encountered such charges. I did note that the > duty on virtually identical packages could be charged at apparently > different rates. For example, I purchased, and then returned, a camera > body; higher duty was charged on the replacement item... > > In addition, I understood that shippers such as FedEx might charge more > for C.O.D., money changing, etc.

I find it interesting too, in that I was having an expensive medium format brought me from Prague, so I got a xerox of the custom regulations at our library which concerned cameras, and found that only 35mm and some special purpose cameras were dutiable. No MF had duty assigned, and my importer paid none.
Herb S

From: "Tofu" tofu@mailandnews.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Importing from Hong Kong to Europe?
Try Cameron Photo

K.M. Chin Shop No. G35A, Hyatt Regency Hotel 16 Lock Rd., Kowloon, Hong Kong tel; (852)23691063 fax; (852)27398575

Per Ericsson pelle.ericsson@swipnet.se wrote

> Hi all, > > Does anybody out there (in Europe) have any first hand experience of > shopping cameras from Hong Kong? Would like to have tips on stores who are > trust worthy etc. > > Best regards, > Per Ericsson

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000
From: Kip Babington cbabing3@swbell.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Sales tax
This is getting off topic a bit, but for those of us in the USA who buy Rolleiflex cameras and accessories by mail (or internet) it is relevant. Carl is right that sales concluded over the internet are no different (legally) from catalog sales by mail or telephone. Most people may not be aware that an important underlying principle of all sales tax laws is that they are imposed on the purchaser. However, the seller is almost universally obligated to collect it and pay it over to the state (some if not all states allow the seller to keep a tiny fraction of the tax as compensation for performing this service for the state.)
A state may not require a seller to collect sales tax on goods shipped to another state, according to the US Constitution (as interpreted by the Supreme Court) UNLESS the seller has a sufficient "nexus" to the destination state to justify that state's imposing the tax collection burden. This has been settled law since sometime in the 30s, I think it was (National Bellas Hess case? Any sales tax lawyers out there?). A state may impose a tax on its own citizens for USING goods within the state (because that doesn't involve a burden on the out of state seller) but these use tax laws are uniformly ignored by citizens where they can get away with it, are completely uneconomical for states to try to enforce, and today apply almost exclusively to items that you have to register with the state (cars & boats come to mind.) Since there are far fewer sellers than there are customers, states always want to make the sellers collect and remit the tax, and are always trying to claim that a particular out of state seller has enough nexus to be required to collect the tax (a local salesman living in a state may be enough nexus, while a salesman living outside the state and only making sales calls within the state may not be enough nexus - tax lawyers make their living arguing stuff like this.)
J C Penney has stores in every state (I think) and so collects sales tax on all of its catalog sales based on the delivery address, even though the goods may be shipped from a warehouse in another state. Since Penney's is present in every state, every state can require them to do this. But L L Bean has only one business location (at least they used to) and can be required to collect sales tax only in Maine - the rest of us buy sales tax free from them. If any of you have bought cameras from Don Chatterton you may know that he will not sell to Washington residents - this policy avoids his having to deal with sales taxes completely.
The internet is just another form of catalog, and most internet vendors are more like LL Bean than Penney's, so under current constitutional law they can not be required to collect and remit sales taxes on any goods shipped to states other than their home state and other states where they have a presence. (If they are not collecting sales taxes on sales made in their home state then they are in violation of existing laws and can be dealt with accordingly - we don't need any new laws to fix this particular problem.) The states can always require us as citizens to pay over a use tax on stuff we buy from out of state, but since most of us won't do it they look for ways to make the sellers collect it. If you look at the "internet tax" proposals that float around from time to time you'll see that the serious ones are not structured as sales taxes - for the most part those would be unconstitutional. Rather, they're structured as some sort of communications tax, in an attempt to circumvent the controlling Supreme Court decisions.
It's easy for a politician (or more likely, the state revenue collectors and their regional and national associations) to posture about the "need" to defeat sales tax "evasion," but in fact it will be a very tricky thing to do in the US given the long standing legal principles that underlie the current taxing structure. This is not to say that we as interstate customers should just ignore the issue, which would have the risk of politicians taking a run at imposing an unconstitutional tax just to see if they could get away with it. Rather, as informed citizens we should simply ask the internet tax proponents what makes the internet so different from mail order that it ought to be taxed differently.
(Sorry, I just had to vent. I used to do some of this for a living. Gad!)
Cheers,
Kip
"Carl Wegerer, III" wrote:

> Sales tax. This will become a major issue. I think there are only four > states that charge sales tax to out-of-state customers who buy mail order. > > One of my customers is a staff writer for The Dallas Morning News in the > Washington office. We discussed this at length before the exemption was > extended. If the premise is that internet sales are hurting sales tax > revenue, then why didn't somebody think about the impact of catalog sales by > Sears, J C Penney and Wards early in the last century. Sears and others > served customers who did not have a local store to shop. Nothing has > changed except there is now more competition. Price is the only way to > compete. > > I think one area that benefits from internet sales is the shipping business. > UPS and the USPS are now moving more boxes and employing more people than > ever before.

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Sales tax
There were no sales taxes back then when Sears and others were mail order giants.
Most sales taxes were first imposed (good word!) on us in the 60s. If you go back and look it up you will find the sales tax here in Virginia was imposed as a "temporary" measure to deal with a budget shortfall and was supposed to be lifted as soon as the budget balanced. Well, you know how it goes with taxes, this one was never revoked, and we're still paying the bloody tax today even though we have big budget surpluses.
Personally, I am against the whole concept of sales tax. It forces the merchant to work for the government as a tax collector without pay. I find that repugnant.
Bob
...

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000
From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Sales tax
We have the same in Virginia, called use tax. You're supposed to fill out a form and pay it on anything you bought without sales tax. I've never known or heard of anyone who actually did this, though.
The only state I know of which has really cracked down on use tax is CT. They did an audit of some NYC mail order houses and sent photographers bills with 30 days to pay or else. Some people got really big bills and were having to borrow money to pay. This is government by intimidation, in my book.
Bob
....

From Pentax Mailing List:
From: Henry Bloomfield henryb@tibcofinance.com
To: pentax-discuss@discuss.pentax.com
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000
Subject: OT: MF Rangefinders, relative US/UK prices
I was doing a little window-shopping which I thought I'd share with you. I had assumed that camera prices were uniformly higher in the UK than the US, but this is not so (US prices from B&H;, UK prices from Jessop's):
Fuji GW670:- USD1259 (GBP839) in the US, and GBP825 in the UK Mamiya7+80/4:- USD1799+1209 (GBP2005) in the US, and GBP561+829=GBP1390 in the UK
(In fact the Mamiya7+80/4 can also be bought cheaper as a kit in the UK for GBP1372)
I used today's exchange rate of 1.50 USD/GBP, but even if the pound were to go back up to it's recent high of 1.60 USD/GBP the Fuji would only be slightly cheaper in the US, and the Mamiya would still be nowhere near the UK price.
Obligatory mention of Pentax - Maybe only rangefinders are cheaper in the UK: The Pentax67MkII is GBP1599 in the UK and USD1499 (GBP999) in the US!
Now I just need to rationalise spending the money.
Henry B

From ROllei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000
From: "Carl Wegerer, III" colibris@swbell.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Currency Affairs
I will not use credit cards for lots and lots of ethical reasons but I understand that the major cards, as well as American Express (which I DO use) convert at a nominal charge.
I hope I do not get in trouble for the following information since it might be off-topic.
Using a credit card is the lowest-cost (for the consumer) way to pay for something in another currency. The bank does not have to issue a paper draft. The consumer also does not have to pay a fee to purchase the draft. My father subscribed to German model railroading magazines, but none accepted credit cards. I told him to pay for two years instead of one. It is like taking money out of an ATM. For example, the charge for a non-customer is $1.50 no matter if the person is taking out $20 or $200. Banks love to make 8 percent gross in a risk-free transaction ($1.50 divided by $20) using YOUR money. Statistically, the average consumer takes out only $20.
When travelling abroad, the best thing to carry is a debit or check card. This eliminates the need to large amounts of currency and reduces the cost of exchanging it back to dollars. Many travelers walk into their bank and buy currency before the trip and exchange it when they return. They have paid a commission (or differential) twice. The rate for a debit card is the same for a credit.
As a businessman, I always get calls from third-party processors looking for business. One man did a great deal of selling me on the concept purchasing a machine that accepts debit and ATM cards (His only mistake was quoting me a price of $2,000 or $60 per month for a lease, while our bank countered with a $900 machine). The fee to process is only $.35 for any amount rather paying about 2 percent to the bank. A $1000 item would cost us $20 as a credit card but only $.35 as a debit card.

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000
From: "John A. Lind" jlind@netusa1.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Currency Affairs
This continues to be a problem for personal international transactions. However among a limited number of countries you can purchase an International Money Order through the Post Office (or whatever you call the agency that handles the mail). In the U.S. the fee is more than for a domestic Postal Money Order (only good in the U.S.), but not as high as other means through banks, and the Postal Money Order is written in the currency of the recipient. It is unfortunate the U.S. only has an agreement with a few countries for this service so far.
-- John

From Rollei Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000
From: "John A. Lind" jlind@netusa1.net
Subject: Re: [Rollei] Currency Affairs
Yes, Great Britain is one of the countries for which you can use a "Standard International Postal Money Order" at $8.50 each.
There is another type called a "Direct International Money Order" (pink form "MP1") at $3.00 each. Unfortunately Great Britain is not on the shorter list of countries that accept them and this is the one I referred to as relatively cheap.
Normal limit for a single USPS MO (domestic or international) is USD $700, unless the receiving country has a lower one. Great Britain limits them to no more than USD $200 each. If you want to send USD $600 to someone in Great Britain, you have to buy three of them instead of one. Norway and a couple of other countries also have limits lower than the USPS $700. You can buy and send more than one money order . . . up to USD $10,000 worth in a single day. It doesn't matter how many, all to one person, or to many people, or to various countries. This is a limit for the total purchased in a single day. In addition, a single day total of $3,000 to $10,000 requires a special USPS form recording the transaction(s).
As I understand it, you pay in US Dollars and the recipient receives it in their currency at the current exchange rate. There is a method for the postal clerk to determine what the exchange rate is on the day you buy the MO, but it can (and will) fluctuate some between then and when the person receives it.
You can read more about both types of USPS International Money Order, including tables of countries that accept each type here:
http://pe.usps.gov/cpim/ftp/manuals/imm/immc3.pdf
This is a "PDF" file that requires the Acrobat Reader and is a piece of the USPS International Mail Manual. Scroll down to Section 390 (Supplementary Services), Subsection 391 (International Postal Money Orders).
It has all the gory details of who, what, when, where and how . . . except about the daily $10,000 limit and the form required for totals over $3,000 in a single day. That's in the USPS Domestic Mail Manual.
-- John
...

From: Stuart Willis ethos@uq.net.au
Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.35mm
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Nikon in Hongkong
As you say, your post is "just your opinion".
The facts of the matter are that the original poster's speculations were correct. And yes - prices in Hong Kong are significantly less than in Japan. Also - wherever you buy from an Authorised Nikon Dealer, whether in Hong Kong or anywhere else, you get Nikon's International Warranty as honoured globally. Claptrap alarmist negative statements about warranty are typically the self-interest ramblings of Importers.
The main consideration is the duties and taxes factor into the destination country; how flexible they are and how rigorously they are enforced.
My personal experience is that I can log on to the Internet, communicate with an overseas supplier, negotiate a price, pay for the goods through a secure channel - and have the items hit my domestic mailbox within three days. I am lucky if I can so much as elicit an email reply from local Importers under a week or ten days.
This is the competitive element which is the Internet, The commercial world has shrunk. If local prices are non-competitive or the Importer won't lift his service game - then he is redundant in the overall scheme of things.
From the Nikon-Japan web-site the original poster can obtain a listing of all Nikon Dealers for the entire planet.
Stuart Willis
Sunny Queensland, Downunder.
mailto:Ethos@uq.net.au
"Jerry L." wrote:

> The shipping cost is not part of your savings, is it? > > Plus you would have trouble with warranty service if you needed > to ship it back to Hong Kong. > > (I doubt if Nikon would let a lens go for $500. in the U.S.A., > and $490. in Japan, also sell for $300. in Hong Kong....just my > opinion.)

From: spam@bait.com (tree sky)
Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Canadians: No point in importing for price reasons
rander3127@aol.com (RAnder3127) wrote:

>However, if I were getting the same priced scope now from the U.S., >here's how it would add up: >$750 U.S. >$100 shipping (at least) >$1292 (converted to Can. dollars) >$170 (combination of GST, General Sales Tax, PST, Provincial Sales Tax, >and UPS's $65 brokerage fees. >Total?: $1462. Nearly 100% mark up by the time it lands!

Did you arrive at that figure with the same currency? 1462/(750*1.5) = 1.3 or about 30% more than the U.S. price. Leaving aside the fact that a lot of states have sales taxes too.
As far as I have seen, no U.S. dealer of big brands (Celestron and Meade in particular) will ship a telescope to Canada. The companies forbid it. I think that this is anti-competative. They should send the Bill Gates squad after them.
I shop Canadian when I can and now the dollar has helped make the domestic dealers more competitive. But as soon as I hear "we'll have to order that" I know that I could walk down to the states and get it faster. Let alone what a few clicks of the mouse will accomplish.
Don't pay the UPS ransom ("Brokerage Fee"). I ask for shipments by ordinary mail (Canada Post's brokerage fee is $5). By the time I can arrange to be home to meet a courier I could have already picked up my package at the post office. I wish some retailers didn't insist on UPS. Do they get a piece of the brokerage gouge?

From: "Pitachu" petechew@singnet.com.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: Prices in Hong Kong vs Singapore vs Malaysia--> where can I find the best deals?
If you travels a lot, DON'T get Canon stuff from Singapore. (I guess the local agent mark up quite a lot).
For example, in singapore, the 28-135IS was quoted about S$945 (about US$540) by a number of shops. I got the same lens in the US for US$430! Not sure about HK but Malaysia seems to be expensive (not duty free like Singapore and Hong Kong)
Just my 2 cents worth!
"ben" benji78@mail.com wrote

> I will be travelling to the above mentioned countries and was > wondering where would be the best place (in terms of price) to get > some photographic equipment. > > I'm looking for a Canon 28-135 IS lens, quite a few Cokin filters, a > camera bag, and film. > > The other alternative is for me to just buy it as I leave Australia > (where I live) on tax free. > > 28-135 IS in Aus--> about Aus$800 (~US$450-500) > Cokin filters--> range from $20-80 (~US$12-50) > > Thanks

From: kirbyko3@aol.com (Kirbyko3)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 21 Jun 2000
Subject: Re: best place to buy camera in HK
I've purchased (by mail order) from Tin Cheung Camera in HK, after reading the great recommendation by several people who have visited the store. You can read more here:
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.htm

[Ed. note: Yen has appreciated vs. dollar - ouch! ]
From: Chris Farmer c594145@showme.missouri.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000
Subject: Sigma Increased Prices
I pulled out a Pop Photo from January and compared it with my new Outdoor Photographer I received yesterday. In perusing the pages, I noticed that Sigma has raised the prices of many of their lenses. I was specifically looking at the B&H; ad, but noticed it as well in the Cameraworrld and Adorama ads. Why?? After 6 months do they think their lenses are better?? What is the deal.
Example:
70-200 2.8 APO HSM was $799, now it is $879
300 f4 was $629, now $689
And it isn't just their "Pro" lenses either,
Their TCs are up $10-20 as well.
Chris

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: LZ lingzhou@glsn23.ews.uiuc.edu
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000
Subject: Latest Price quote of M7-II in Hong Kong
A friend of mine recently visited HK and obtained the following price quote in Matsuya Photo (one of the reputable places to shop for camera gear in HK). I have no relation with Matsuya at all. Just want to give this to those who may head to HK.
The price difference is no longer as big as in the last year. Using the current exchange rate of
1 US$ = 7.80 HK$= 0.67 UKPound

------------------------------------------- MAMIYA 7 II BODY HK$8000 US$1025 80/F4 HK$4600 590 50/F4,5 HK$9200 1180 43/F4,5 HK$9200 1180 65/F4 HK$6000 770 150/F4,5 HK$6500 833 210/F8 HK$9500 1217 -------------------------------------------- So for a M7-II + 80mm, the prices are: B&H; (after rebate): 1400+1100 = 2500 HK (Matsuya) : 1025+ 590 = 1615 RWhite (UK) : 1082+ 750 = 1832 ------------------------------------------

From: "Doug MacArthur" doug-macarthur@home.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Robert White in UK - comments/advice
"greg kerr" greg@on.aibn.com wrote

> > Doug MacArthur wrote: > > > I'm getting very interested in ordering a Mamiya RZ67 Pro II (value kit) > > from them for delivery to Canada. They sell in for 1245 Sterling = $2700 or > > so Can. Local dealer quoted my over $5000!!! B&H; has it for about $2800 US > > (about $4200 Can). > > > > Robert Whites prices on Nikon 35mm equip is about the same as in Canada. > > > > I'm also in Canada. Does he have a web site?

Does he ever!! www.robertwhite.co.uk and he responded fast (same day) to email. I checked with Canadian customs "no duty" just GST/PST......
Cheers, Doug

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000
From: LZ lingzhou@cehpx22.ews.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Latest Price quote of M7-II in Hong Kong
You're welcome. Matsuya's e-mail address:
matsuya@hkstar.com
website:
www.hkstar.com/~matsuya
Their website doesn't list prices for the M7 system. Aparently they do ship overseas, and they need you to deposit the money directly into their account (they gave account info on their website).
Phil Partridge wrote:

> [Ignore last (empty) message]. > LZ, Thanks for the info. > > Robert White offers a special price for the M7II + 80mm, so your comparison > puts his price above its true level by using prices for the body and lens as > separate items. He now sells the combo for 1145 GBP, which is $US1708 (until > recently it was 1095 > $US1631). Cheap shipping costs too. > > The Matsuya price is great. Do you have an email contact for them and do you > know if they ship overseas? > (I want a M7II plus 65mm). cheers, Philip...

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: LZ lingzhou@cehpx22.ews.uiuc.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Latest Price quote of M7-II in Hong Kong
I am sorry I just realized that their website has few English words. The site says that they have purchasing agents shuttling back'n forth between HK and Jpn each week, so even if they don't have an item, they'd get it real quick for you. The payment/address/contact info is in English however

From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 31 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Grey market lenses?
Terry writes:
"I've read a few posts that imply the writer would not buy a grey market lens. My understanding is that grey market simply means the lens will not be supported by the U.S. distributor, and that it can have an effect on warranty.
What is everyone's experience with grey market in lenses? Are they inferior quality or are they built in the same factory by the same people using the same materials. Is it safer to buy grey lenses rather than grey bodies, which have more things that can go wrong?"
ANSWER: The parallel import lenses are exactly the same as the official distributor obtained lenses. The only physical difference is within the box,--the lack of a USA warranty.
While this is hardly an issue with a manual focus lens because of their simplicity, it can grow to become a bigger issue with the AF versions.
Nikon USA, for one, has begun the practice of putting a "US" in front of their Nikkor lenses that are obtained through their distribution channels. As a result, they don't repair lenses that lack the US or evidence of a US source.
The exception to that is the lens obtained overseas from any dealer, and you suffer lens problems while in the USA. Nikon is under legal obligation to support those lenses under the NIKON corporate "global warranty" program.
My advise to those considering a parallel import lens vice a USA warranteed one is to consider the complexity of the lens, and what you will do it (1) it fails under warranty, or (2) you drop it yourself (non warranty repair).
With some items these days, Nikon is not even selling repair parts to certified Nikon repair shops (particularly for the F5 camera) because Nikon USA feels that they are losing a lot of business to the parallel import businesses.
If you are worried that you might get into a situation where you can't get it easily fixed by your shop, stick with the US version.
Dan

From hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000
From: "WILLIAMS, DAVID R. (JSC-DB)" david.r.williams2@jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: The Hasselblad USA warranty question
It seems when everyone in the USA want's to save some buck's on thier high dollar Hasselblad equipment, they go out of the country and trust mostly three shop's. Robert White (UK), Harry's Pro Shop (Canada) and Cayman Camera (Cayman Islands). Cayman Camera states that they give you a 1 year "International Warranty" that can be used in the the USA. I don't know how long or what type of warrany the other two dealers offer or if anybody has experience with any of them when it comes to getting warranty work done in the USA on equipment they bought out of the country. I hear equipment you buy at Robert Whites shop you must send it back to the U.K. for warranty work. Is it only a one year warranty? What about Harry's Pro shop? How long? Do you have to send it back to Canada for repairs? What is this "International" warranty Cayman talks about? How can that be used in the USA? When buying Hasselblad equipment in the USA you get a bonus or two and a three year warranty and peace of mind. I never hear about the other places having bonus programs. Something we all need to look at before we buy out of the country. I need to save money on all the equipment I need to buy and I want to have all the facts in before I decide on whom I'm going to buy it from. Also I've heard a few good things on the net about Tony Leung at New Sankyo Camera Co Ltd out of Kowloon, Hong Kong. I've talked to him via e-mail and he seems very nice. Like Robert Whites, Tony said that it comes with a Hong Kong warranty and I forgot how long he said on Hasselblad equipment. He does have better prices than the other three. Here's an example on brand new factory fresh non grey market item. Hasselblad 903SWC, RMFX finder, Focusing Screen Adapter, Fed Ex shipping and Insurance is $3,827.00 USA monies quoted from a couple of months ago. I thankyou for any input you may have on any of the four stores and thier warranty's!

From Nikon Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000
From: "Sirius" sirius@gtn.on.ca
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Canadian tax rebate (WAS: new Nikon camera alert)

> The last time I looked some items where still cheaper if bought in the US > than in Canada even with the poor exchange rate.

I haven't checked prices for a few months, but over the past ten years or so, despite fluctuations in currency exchange, the prices for "big" items in Canada, such as lenses and bodies, are the same or even lower than the US prices. However, '"small" things, like filters and film are often much more expensive here in Canada. I've seen Cokin filters in Canada that cost triple the US price (when converted to the same currency).
Jeff Rankin-Lowe

From: "Kerry L. Thalmann" largeformat@thalmann.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000
Subject: Re: Wideangle for 5x7
James Meckley wrote:

> (Yes I know: the Super-Symmar 5.6/110, but that's the > > price of a used car...) > > Robert White in the UK is currently offering the Schneider Super-Symmar > XL 110mm f/5.6 for just under $1200.00; quite a bargain when you check > US prices.

Although I've used and highly recommend Robert White (great price and great service), Badger Graphic Sales, right here in the good old USA has the 110mm Super Symmar XL listed at $1195 on their web site:
http://www.badgergraphic.com/
Kerry
--
Kerry's Large Format Homepage
http://largeformat.homepage.com

From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 05 Aug 2000
Subject: Re: Grey market lenses?
This entire business is rather amusing when you simply read the Nikon warranty that's packed in anything from Nikon (the global warranty).
I'll quote it exactly so that you can read for yourself that Nikon is not following their own written warranty,--particularly as pertains to US Nikon owners (this from an F5)...
"Nikon Worldwide Service Warranty
Your Nikon equipment is guaranteed against any manufacturing defects for three years from the date of purchase.
This warranty card is issued only at the time of original purchase; it is non-transferable.
This warranty must be presented to the Nikon service facility before any repair can be made under warranty.
Establishing the original purchase date should be made by the original purchaser via the sales slip or other evidence.
Please refer to the separate card for further details."
[the separate card]
"How to use your Nikon Worldwide Service Warranty Card
[cutting to the chase]
"...During this period, repairs or adjustments will be made free of charge only upon presentation of the Nikon Worldwide Service Warranty Card (Copy "C", customer's portion) together with the sales slip or other evidence of purchase to any of the Nikon service facilities listed here...."
[also] "...It is only valid at the Nikon service facilities listed here."
[on the opposite side t lists Nikon service facilities...]
"U.S.A.: Nikon Inc. 1300 Walt Whitman Rd. Melville, NY 11747-3064"
Nikon of Japan (mother Nikon) seems to consider Nikon USA as a plausible repair facility in the global scale of things. They have not expressly excluded it, so why is Nikon USA refusing to perform global warranty service?
Nikon Corporation needs to rewrite their global warranty to exclude Nikon USA from their list of service facilities.
Dan

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000
From: "Blair Ellis" Blair.Ellis@WesternCarolinaCenter.org
Subject: [NIKON] Sales Taxes (was Importing stuff into UK (was F100 prices))
(Snip) OTOH, B&H; is only located in New York, so no tax is added to merchandise shipped to any other state.
My great state (NC) is going to great lengths to make us pay mail order sales taxes through our annual income tax form. There is a section to detail on-line and mail order purchases where sales tax was not collected. I don't know how successful they were in this endeavor. There is talk of some kind of software to make vendors in other states comply with NC tax law for NC residents, but I don't know much about it. Maybe Henry knows what the deal is.
When the new tax forms were introduced with the sales tax section, an interesting comment that I believe came from one of our legislators, and was published in the newspapers was: "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Nobody will pay that, I'm not going to pay it."
Are other states wrestling with this situation?
Blair

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Sales Taxes (was Importing stuff into UK [OT]
you wrote:

>My great state (NC) is going to great lengths to make us pay mail order >sales taxes through our annual income tax form. There is a section to >detail on-line and mail order purchases where sales tax was not collected. >I don't know how successful they were in this endeavor. There is talk of >some kind of software to make vendors in other states comply with NC tax law >for NC residents, but I don't know much about it. Maybe Henry knows what >the deal is.

I don't know specifically about NC law, but I doubt one state can make a law compelling a retailer in another state to do (or desist from doing) anything. Perhaps a list member who's a lawyer knows. I thought that's what the Federal govt. is for.
The fact is that no mater what a customer's responsibility to his or her home state may be, a New York retailer who does not have a physical presence in another state (like B&H;) does not ADD sales tax to orders being shipped out of NY State. In general, if your home state has sales tax, you're probably liable for Use Tax, equal to the sales tax, but whether your state knows that you theoretically owe this is generally between you and them.
One important caveat though. B&H;, like any retailer, gets audited periodically by NY State. They want to know our payroll tax and sale tax stuff is all in order. New York has established reciprocal agreements with a couple of neighboring states including New Jersey (and I think Connecticut). When NY State audits us, if they see a parcel shipped to NJ, they have the right to tell NJ, who can then send the customer a bill for tax plus interest plus penalties. They do not tell us when they tell NJ, nor do they tell us when NJ sends a bill.
Every so often I get a snappish message from some poor guy in New Jersey wanting to know why we ratted him out to the state. We didn't. NY audited us & found the transaction, and NY told NJ.
- --
regards,
Henry Posner
Director of Sales and Training
B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
From: "MMA" aasem@ni.net
Subject: Re: [NIKON] What is Grey Market (Was: Re: Maybe Now's the Time for an Anti-Trust Suit Against NikonUSA)

> No. Several months ago I described in some detail several scenarios which > easily could happen, in which a "legal" Nikon could be considered "grey" by > Nikon USA. I was pooh-poohed by a couple of people for positing rare > events. I don't think they are rare at all in today's global economy.

I understand, and I agree.

> So it's not at all easy to know which Nikon products are "legal" by Nikon > USA standards.

Well, when I bought some used Nikonos lenses and MF AIS lenses, I called Nikon in Torrance. They told me they could not verify whether the lenses were USA or Grey over the phone. I bought them and drove them to Nikon Service. They told me they do not keep track of the MF products, nor the Nikonos products. I spoke to the woman at the counter, a person in NPS who shall remain nameless, and a technician.
Later, when I had a problem with a defective AF-S 17-35, my favorite dealer put me in contact with a couple VP's of Nikon USA who became involved to ensure, after a lengthy delay, my lens would be either repaired, or replaced. (After weeks of effort, they finally produced 4 new units for me to choose from). While I was ranting about their (I'm not sure what words Alexander will allow me to use) @#$^%!! service, I raised the grey/usa topic. They confirmed that only AF products are tracked--the policy is not enforced on MF products--nor could it.

>>If so, then do you see a problem with shifting the burden to >>owners of non "USA" gear to prove via sales reciept or world-wide warranty >>that it was purchased and imported legitimately? How is that arbitrary? > > Yes, I do see problems, both Public Relations-wise and consumer-wise.

I do too. My point is that I don't see a legal problem. In fact, I see possible legal justifications that might even outweigh the public relations and consumer problems.

> Seriously, whenever a company relies on ambiguous and arbitrary decisions > by "humans behind the desks" it risks being at the mercy of PMS, Migraines, > Hangovers, Fights-With-Spouses, Victim-of-Road-Rage and any of a hundred > other reasons the Person Behind The Desk is having a Bad Day and decides to > take it out on the Customer.

That describes Nikon USA--Torrance's de facto policy precisely. Anyone who has been to their service desk knows exactly what I mean ;-)

> I absolute agree. But Nikon USA has a Monopoly on Nikon parts and service > in many cases. (See above.)

The important thing is that Nikon USA does not have a monopoly over 35mm cameras or parts, in general. Nikon is entitled to a monopoly on Nikon products, just like you are entitled to a monopoly on John Albino photos.

>>Editorial comments aside, I don't see any evidence of illegal, unfair, or >>anti-competitive conduct on Nikon's part. Rudeness, arrogance, indifference >>and bad taste, maybe. Anything worthy of governmental intervention? > > I disagree on several points. Nikon? Illegal? No. Unfair? Yes.

Ok, unfair to consumers, I will agree to a point. I was thinking of unfair competition which would primarily entail unfairness to competitors. That, I do not see.

> Anti-competitive? Certainly. Otherwise it wouldn't be so hard to get them > to listen and make product available that's plentiful elsewhere in the world.

Not anti-competitive in the legal sense. Head-up-the-butt policies? yes.
I would definitely agree that Nikon USA needs to get their (insert your own colorful, yet slightly pejorative slang term here) together.
- -mark

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Maybe Now's the Time for an Anti-Trust SuitAgainst NikonUSA
you wrote:

>Under Nikon's rules, a grey market F5 is one which doesn't have "USA" as >part of its serial number, no matter how it came to be owned in the United >States. So if a legal immigrant came to the U.S. and died, and the heirs >sold the F5 to someone in the U.S., and didn't know they were supposed to >write a letter documenting how the F5 came to be in the country, the >purchaser is up the creek because Nikon USA won't touch it.

I am not defending Nikon USA's "grey market" practices, but regarding the above paragraph, I have been assured by managers from Nikon USA that a Nikon owner who can establish that he (she) owns a Nikon product purchased legitimately (i.e. not "grey) from a non-USA retailer should have no problem obtaining warranty or after-warranty service for the item.
IOW, if my uncle buys an F5 in (pick a country) and brings it to the USA and gives it to me (I should HAVE such a generous uncle ) with the original bill-of-sale, I should be able to get service (in warranty or out) from Nikon or their authorized service facilities. Documentation seems to be the key.
Now, in practice, I have never tested this, and perhaps some others on this list have or could, but we have had this discussion with Nikon USA managers more than once and they continue to tell me the same thing.
For the record, my PERSONAL (nothing to do with my employment) opinion is that Nikon USA should take a page from Canon USA in this regard.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000
From: Tom Hickson "thomas.hickson(xxx)"@lmco.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: MF and cropping vs 35mm?
Natasha,
Here's a starting place for M7 shopping:
http://www.dalephotographic.co.uk/
Prices here are the best I've seen (and don't forget to SUBTRACT the 17.5% VAT)
Tom
...

[Ed. note: recent Bronica USA price shifts have dropped some prices to near grey market U.K. prices, so check prices of SQ-A.. etc. carefully!]
From Bronica Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000
From: "Edwin Leong" eleong@intergate.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Digest Number 155

> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 > From: ebreeden@bellsouth.net > Subject: Re: Bronica SQ-B... > >(major snip) >as even KEH used SQ lens are much more than what I paid in the TLR world.

First off I will say that I think the people running KEH are excellent. Very fast and forthright in payment and providing honest value for your equipment sold to them. I sold all of my duplicate SQ-Ai lenses and accessories to them and was very, very happy with the amount they paid me for them. Having said that I highly recommend anyone from the US wanting to purchase new or used Bronica equipment to try a Canadian source instead of KEH for used or B&H; for new. Here's why:
Tamron USA is the official importer of Bronica equipment into the US and quite honestly Tamron USA seems to be as bad as Mamiya USA is for pricing their goods. In Canada the official importer and distributor is Amplis Foto. Now right off, I'm not going to suggest that Amplis is all that great for warranty work as I've had some issues with them in the past as has a friend of mine. BUT and this IS the important point, Amplis does not screw the Canadian purchasers of new Bronica equipment price wise. In about 95% of the case you will enjoy very good to excellent price points on major and minor pieces of equipment. Since I'm an SQ-Ai user and know that system the best I can offer you these comparison prices on some of the more popular pieces of equipment:
The Canadian prices are generally what can had across the country at OFFICIAL Bronica sellers whereas the US prices are from B&H;

SQ-Ai body $1900 CAN $1209 US SQ-i Motor drive $900 CAN $770 US 120 and 220 backs $630 CAN $593 US SQ-i Prism (top model) $1450 CAN $1264 US 40mm lens $2150 CAN $1979 US 50mm lens $1900 CAN $1727 US 80mm lens $1300 CAN $1209 US 150mm lens $1700 CAN $1319 US S-18 and S-36 tubes $600 CAN $475 US

Now take into account the difference between the Canadian and US dollar ($1 CAN equals $0.67 US) and we can see that most of the products are very well priced compared to the US imported gear. We can also see in some lens prices that lenses are in fact MUCH cheaper in Canada then in the US. Even with Fed-Ex shipping and insurance, the prices are still low enough to provide a very good savings especially for the big ticket wide angles.
*Caveat Emptor* I do not know what Tamron USA's warranty policy is regarding foreign bought goods so find out before contemplating Canadian bought goods.
Also, while there are no duties imposed upon photographic equipment, you may require a broker to facilitate the handling of goods across the border. If you use a big time courier company like Fed-Ex they'll do it for you but may charge a hefty fee ($30-$50) as opposed to the very low rates charged by the postal services. It all depends on how fast you want the equipment.
Some places you could try in Canada are Vistek in Toronto, email at sales@vistek.net or contact directly at 416-365-1777. Vistek is like the B&H; of Canada.
My own favorite place to buy from is Broadway Camera in my home city of Vancouver. I don't know if they'll handle US orders but if anyone in Vancouver will do it, it will be them. Talk to Henry and tell him Edwin sent you :-). Call direct at 604-733-9282 or email at sales@broadwaydd.com
So if you want new Bronica gear at prices that even KEH may not be able to beat then try a Canadian source.
Finally, the major reason why I like KEH so much is that they offered me much more money for my gear then I could have gotten from local buyers for exactly the same reason why you can save big time money by buying Canadian imported Bronica gear. In Canada, Bronica is not worth as much and for my seven pieces of equipment (almost all of which were later classified by KEH as excellent) I would have only gotten $1500 CAN maximum whereas KEH paid me $1700 US which turned out to be about $2500 CAN.
Hope this helps some prospective buyers out there.
Edwin Leong
Vancouver, Canada

Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000
From: "Wayne D" wdewitt@snip.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: 58 XL
Hi Roy;
I came across your post in the Large Format newsgroup where you mentioned the 58 XL. I know what lust is - I don't have your affliction for extreme wide-angles, but I have recently ordered a 110 XL and a 150 XL. I am Emailing various persons whom I've come in contact with on the forums during the past year about a vendor that I've found. If you use Schneider or Rodenstock lenses, or B&W; or Heliopan filters or adapter rings, I've found a supplier in Germany who is easy to work with and has prices that are as low as 50% of what we are paying in the U.S. (I'm saving $2700.00 over B&H;'s prices on the two lenses), he even beats Robert White's prices (by 10 - 20% avg.). His prices on Heliopan step-up rings is fantastic (70% less than B&H; - I'm throwing all of my aluminum ones away, or dumping them on Ebay :-) ). His name is Christoph Greiner, he speaks English very well. His Email address is: chr.greiner.photo@t-online.de . He does not have a website yet.
He is a very reputable dealer, and is the German rep. for Walker and Ebony cameras. Send him a request for a quote on the 58mm - you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Regards,
Wayne DeWitt

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000
From: howard_kh_wong@afcd.gcn.gov.hk
Subject: Re: [NIKON] Re: Prices in Japan and Hong Kong
Dave,
Price in Hong KOng is US$314. Cheapest place to get it will be Man Shing Photo Supplies, 106 Tung Choi Street, Kowloon, Hong kong. Tel: 2396 2996
howie
To: nikon@photo.cis.to
cc: (bcc: Howard KH WONG/AFCD/HKSARG)
Subject: [NIKON] Re: Prices in Japan and Hong Kong
Hello everyone,
My sister just called and told me she's leaving for Japan and Hong Kong in the morning. Right now it is 6:00 p.m. New York time 05 Sep. Does anyone know if the price of a Sekonic L508 would be any less in either of these two places than the $430. I can get it for in NYC? This to be used with F5, N90S using multiple SB26 setup. Any responses would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Dave

Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000
From: "Mark Houtzager" markhout@NOMORESPAMmagix.com.sg
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Sales tax for out-of-state sales
Yes it's true! Yes, you are required to volutarily pay over the sales tax due to the IRS.
California lawmakers are currently working on legislation seeking enforcement of the rule that goods consumed / used in California are always taxed with sales tax.
Please refer to the pretty good explanation of David Hardesty at
http://www.ecommercetax.com/doc/090300.htm.
Regards,
Mark
"Mike" no.th@nk.you wrote

> I'm a California resident and have NEVER paid Ca tax on an out-of-state > purchase. How does that work? Am I supposed to voluntarily send the state > money? > > "Tom Thackrey" tomnr@creative-light.com wrote > > > > > > On 8-Sep-2000, "Alan Justice" a.justice@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > > > I heard somewhere that even if one buys cameras (or anything) out of > state, > > > you're still legally required to pay your own state sales tax. True? > Just > > > some states? I'm not just interested in what one can get away with, but > > > actual laws. > > > > I know it's true in California and Washington State. I think it's called a > use tax. > > -- > > Tom Thackrey > > tom at creative-light.com > > www.creative-light.com

Date: 09 Sep 2000
From: heavysteam@aol.comzapcrap (Heavysteam)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Sales tax for out-of-state sales
Michigan has a 6% use tax on out-of-state mail order and internet purchases. The taxpayer is required to declare these purchases when they file their income tax return (yes, they have a form for use tax) and pay the 6%. God Bless America, very very few Michiganians are stupid enough to pay this regressive theft of money to which the state is NOT entitled. The only ones who pay are those who must register vehicles purchased out-of-state and just can't get around it. Just another demonstration of the axiom that government expands to absorb all money in circulation.

Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000
From: "Tom Thackrey" tomnr@creative-light.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Sales tax for out-of-state sales
Alan,
Sales delivered out-of-state are not taxable, as far as I know. You report the amount of out-of-state sales on line 8 which is eventually subtracted from your total sales (line 1). The form I have is BOE-401-A. Sales to resellers are also not subject to sales tax, but get the reseller form filled out and signed.
The killer is line 2 "Purchases subject to use tax" which is added to total sales. As I understand it, you are supposed to report purchases on which you did not pay sales tax except for those which are exempt from sales tax (purchaes for resale and food mostly). Purchases from B&H;, except those for resale, are taxable.
As long as we're on the subject, Line 10b might be of use to you. Report your purchases on which you paid sales tax, but latter resold. For example, if you buy a frame at the art store and don't use your resale number you can report that amount on 10b and it will be subtracted from your total sales. I use it often at places where I buy a mixture of for resale and for consumption items. I just pay the sales tax and then use line 10b to recover it when I file my sales tax return.
CA is pretty ruthless when it comes to taxes. I've heard rumors that they have some way of getting information about out-of-state sales from the retailers. I have no evidence of this, just a rumor.
Keep in mind that I'm not a tax expert, just a tax victim.
Tom
On 9-Sep-2000, "Alan Justice" a.justice@worldnet.att.net wrote:

> Tom, > > I just got my CA Seller's Permit, in case I manage to sell any photos to > in-state magazines. I haven't waded through their literature yet, but I > thought that for this the only tax I pay the state is what I've collected > from my customers for in-state sales. Sales to out-of-state are not taxed > by CA. Right? > > But my main concern was really for my purchases from, say, B&H.; I've spent > thousands of dollars there thinking I got a good deal by not paying tax. If > I now find out I have to pay the tax (by law), it would often have been > better to buy in-state (no shipping charge). > > -Alan Justice

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000
From: Ragnar Hansen raghans@powertech.no
Subject: US prices on Hasselblad
I live in Norway. A couple of weeks ago I saw some mails stating that you could get flexbodies used for $1500,- to 1700,- . That maked me puzzeled. List price here ( for a new one) is $1380,- I looked in the catalog from B%H and fould a list price on $2332,-. More: a 100/3,5 CFi B&H; $ 2637,- , here $ 1774,- . 203FE body B&H; $5626 , here $3870,- . Is the B&H; list prices what you actually pay for Hassy in US?.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: US prices on Hasselblad
csocolow@mindspring.com writes:
My next Hasselblad purchase will very carefully look into buying from Cayman Cameras based on feeback in this forum.
Carl Socolow
I have bought Hasselblad stuff from Mrs. McGaw at Cayman Camera since 1996, both while on the island while SCUBA diving as well as by FedEx and I have been more than pleased. Don R.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000
From: InfinityDT@aol.com
Subject: Re: US prices on Hasselblad
marcober@gate.net writes:
Maybe our Norwegian members would be willing to help us make our purchases there in Norway. We, here in the U.S.A. could offer to reciprocate when Europeans want items which can be had cheaper where we reside.
For instance, I live in Miami. We make some pretty good cigars here. Has anyone heard of La Gloria Cuban? They, and others are made w/in two miles of my house.
Who wants me to ship some to them?
You see what I mean?
Not to disparage the Floridian cigar trade, nor to start a political discussion, but anyone residing in Europe can buy real Cuban cigars at any good tobacconist. Furthermore with the internet and FedEx it is easy for Americans to buy from abroad. And unlike gray market merchandise which is imported and re-sold (thus allowing the US agent to legally refuse to service it since the warranty is only good for the first purchaser who in this case is the importer and not you) if you buy direct from an *authorized* dealer in another country and have a sales receipt, the US agent must honor the manufacturer's warranty. Basically I've found that the prices everywhere outside the US are much cheaper and differ mainly with the various countries' exchange rates versus the US$.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000
From: Bob Miano bmiano@technisonic.com
Subject: Cayman Camera
O.K., At the risk of writing a "me too" email, and at the risk of making one dealer SOOOOO popular that they may never have anything I want in stock again, I have to tell all of you this:
I have bought LOTS of camera equipment through mail order, over the internet and locally for my business and personal use. I've bought from Adorama and B&H; - I've been very pleased with their professional attitudes and I paid significantly less than I would have locally. I've also bought items from Smile, Family Photo and others who seem to specialize in grey market and, in some cases, what might be considered borderline "bate and switch" - You DO get great prices but it requires a firm resolve to stick with EXACTLY what you want and nothing else (no $50 batteries, or $40 no-name filters...also make sure you ask if the item is grey market and watch out for those shipping charges).
For Hassy equipment there is simply only one choice...And I found out about it through this user group! CAYMAN CAMERA. I have always been AMAZED at how much lower their prices are than ANY other dealer (at least on Hassy gear) ...I mean hundreds and in some cases thousands of dollars less than the "cheap" mail order companies. Every business transaction I've had with them has been a polite, haggle-free, wonderful experience with great communication and no surprises!
Again, I hope I haven't just shot myself in the foot...But seeing as it was this user group that turned me on to Cayman Camera I feel like I have an obligation to make sure other "newbies" know about this wonderful resource.
Thank you to all the users who helped ME get some great gear at great prices!
BTW, if this sounds like I must be an employee of Cayman Camera - I assure you I'm not.
bmiano@technisonic.com
www.technisonic.com

[Ed. note: If anybody can further more info, please let Bob know - and us too! ;-)]
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000
From: BAughey@aol.com
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: Tin Cheung Camera Company
Robert,
In the past I have purchased Hasselblad equipment from Ernest Tsang at Tin Cheung Camera Company in Hong Kong.
Recently I have tried to contact them by fax and voice but with no luck. Do you or possibly someone in the group know if they have either moved or gone out of business?
Thank you,
Bob Aughey

From: bandhphoto@aol.com (BandHPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 14 Sep 2000
Subject: Re: Sales tax for out-of-state sales
Sounds like maybe Henry Posner should not comment on people's buying habits at B&H; anymore.
Ha! :-)
When a customer from Ct or NJ (or eslewhere) receives a bill for back taxes (and penalty & interest) related to a purchase made at B&H;, it's because NY State told their home state. We get audited periodically so NY can see that we're okay with sales tax and payroll tax and so on. The state auditors from NY tell NJ and Ct and whoever else has reciprocal agreements with NY.

regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
henryp@bhphotovideo.com

Date: 09 Nov 2000
From: nyphotoboy@aol.com (NYphotoboy)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Ordering Mamiya Equipment from UK
I ordered my Mamiya Pro TL 645 through a store in Hong Kong that did mail order, and I saved (literally) thousands of dollars. The SVII kit (which is $2699 here in NYC at B&H;) was only $1299 through this HK dealer; an extra 120 back was $129 instead of the $499ish it is here, and the 45mm super-wide lens was only $500 instead of the $1199 that it is here.
That being said.... there is no warranty on any of this stuff. BUt here's my thinking -- I ended up paying $2500 in total for all this equipment (this included UPS priority shipping + insurance) instead of the $6400 price tag that I would've paid here in NYC. So if something broke and I needed to pay a couple hundred bucks for a repair, I've STILL saved a couple thousand dollars. I'm all for buying grey market!
Kerry

Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000
From: Tony Polson tony.polson@btinternet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Camera prices - US vs. England
pburian@aol.com (PBurian) wrote:

> >While British people generally remain prepared to pay high prices, sadly > >that is all that will be offered here. That's one of the reasons I buy > >more from the USA than I do from my country of residence. > > Tony: When you order something, I assume you have to pay Customs Duty, VAT tax, > and a customs broker fee. (That's why a lot of Europeans come to the US with > empty camera bags to fill. They throw out the packaging and mail the receipts > home.)

I'm deeply shocked that British people, surely amongst the most law-abiding in the world, should do such a thing. [g]
If a Brit orders goods by mail order from the USA, you are correct to say that "you have to pay Customs Duty, VAT tax, and a customs broker fee". However there are ways of minimising this. First, anything sent to the UK as airmail via the US Postal Service does not attract a customs broker fee as the UK Post Office's Royal Mail division does not routinely make a charge. You get a bill for the duty and VAT, payable on delivery of the item, but with no broker fee added. This can be a considerable saving; I have paid a broker fee of GBP 22.50 (US $32.50) on a package worth only GBP 15.00 (US $21.75). :-(
This does not apply if the items are heavy and have to be sent by parcel post. This is because the UK's Parcelforce International (although it is another division of the UK Post Office) *does* charge a broker fee as do companies like UPS, Federal Express, Amtrak etc..
To check the rates and weight limits for the US Postal Service go to:
http://ircalc.usps.gov/
In addition, most packages with a declared customs value of less than about GBP 100.00 and addressed to private individuals are not put through customs clearance and import duty and VAT are not levied. This is a concession, as the rules state that *all* imported goods are liable for import duty and VAT. Sometimes small items are charged, but they are nearly always not.
Finally, if items addressed to private individuals are declared on the customs forms as "used", import duty and VAT are not normally levied. It would of course be foolish to risk prosecution (of the sender and/or recipient) by declaring new goods as used because occasional spot checks are made. In the USA this might come under the laws governing mail fraud and I understand these laws are both powerful and regularly used.
Items addressed to companies are usually charged import duty and VAT regardless of value.
To sum up, a Brit buying from abroad should, where practicable:
(a) ensure used goods are clearly stated as such on the customs label,
(b) ensure goods are sent via the sending country's mail service rather than by a parcels company, and
(c) keep the value of each package of new goods below GBP 100.00, by splitting the consignment if necessary - although packages sent together may be aggregated for duty and VAT to be applied.
(d) ensure that articles are properly addressed so that individuals are not treated as though they were companies.
Peter, I'm sorry a reply to you has turned into a long spiel about how to (legally) avoid UK import duty and VAT, but I hope some people will find it enlightening and maybe even *useful*.
--
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cayman Camera
Digiratidoc@aol.com writes:
Anybody know how to get hold of anyone at Cayman Camera. I've emailed them several times (using different servers just in case) and I've never gotten an answer. Do they ever answer email, or do you have to call them?
Jim Laird
1-345-949-8359 AND ASK FOR COLLEN MCGAW

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000
From: "Wayne D" wdewitt@snip.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Any experience importing Mamiya gear from UK?
You'll get a warranty - you'll just have to send it back to the U.K. for servicing. Customs duty is 2% for cameras and lenses (sometimes not even assessed). No import problems with Mamiya, or anyone else - you've purchased the equipment in another country and are importing it for your own personal use, they have no claim. I deal with a different U.K. supplier and have had no problems.
Wayne

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000
From: "Wayne D" wdewitt@snip.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Any experience importing Mamiya gear from UK?
They cannot stop an individual from importing goods purchased overseas - those regs. are for resellers. What is customs going to do when you go on vacation? Stop you at the airport and confiscate your camera? It doesn't happen. Years ago Nikon tried the same crap. People just removed the faceplates - the trademark restriction is on the name, not the goods. They used to actually ship goods with the faceplates removed and placed in an envelope.
"Darrell A. Larose" ad607@FreeNet.Carleton.CA wrote

> Here is Mamiya's answer, from their website on imported Mamiya's > > http://www.mamiya.com/notice.html > > "Caution: > > Some firms and individuals outside the USA have from time to time > offered Mamiya products for shipment to the USA. Shipment of products > from outside the USA is prohibited and will be seized by U.S. customs, > as it is in violation of the Trade Mark protection under the rules of > the United States Customs Service for import protection in accordance > with 19 C.F.R. Part 133, and Section 526 (a) of the Tariff Act. > > You are urged to purchase your Mamiya products from an authorized dealer, > and avoid purchases and payments to firms outside the USA which could > result in seizure of the ordered products and loss of your payment. > > Return to Mamiya Home Page" > > Be forewarned! > > "Rick Rieger" (rrieger@voyager.net) writes: > > Mamiya US did a medium format presentation here in Columbus, Ohio a few > > months back. During the break I asked the Mamiya rep about Robert White in > > the UK. The rep said, "Oh, we've shut him down as far as any imports to the > > US is concerned." I don't know if this is true or not. FWIW. > > > > Rick Rieger

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000
From: "eMeL" badbatz99@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Any experience importing Mamiya gear from UK?
The section is 1526(a), not 526(a). And the section 1526(d) explicitly permits bringing such equipment for personal use ("The trademark provisions of this section and section 1124 of title 15, do not apply to the importation of articles accompanying any person arriving in the United States when such articles are for his personal use and not for sale...")
The differences in prices between GB and US are substantial, so their attitude only reinforces the notion that Mamiya in the US should be re-christened "GREEDFLEX."
It is cheaper to buy a 7 day all-inclusive vacation package in London, get your Mamiya equipment there and pay US customs duty on it, than to purchase the same equipment in the US from an "authorized dealer." And you'll get your VAT back, too...
Michael
Ex Hasselblad aficionado
Ex Mamiya user (never again!!!)
Happy Rollei 600x user (and intend to keep it this way...)
...

[Ed. note: a user warns about warranty coverage issues...]
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000
From: Hans DeBruyn hdebruyn@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Nikon F80 dies (4 mo), Nikon denies Warranty
I purchased a Nikon F80 in July, having read many good things here and in the trade press. I was pleased with its performance in early use, and took it as my main camera on a recent 6 week trip to Malaysia and Thailand, because of its low weight and compact size.
In mid November, the camera developed problems. From time to time, in the middle of a roll of film, the frame counter would go to 'E" while the camera was stored overnight, and lock up (could not reset with 2 button reset, could not rewind film). This became a daily problem, so I returned the camera to Nikon Canada on my return home for warranty repair.
I received their response this week. They said the camera had been exposed to moisture and showed evidence of corrosion, and was therefore not covered by warranty. I was welcome to buy a replacement body.
As the camera's only user, I know the camera was not subjected to any abnormal liquids, splashing, rain, etc. I do know that 6 weeks in SE Asia subjected it to frequent condensation - constant movement from air conditioned hotels to 95 degree, 99 percent humidity ambient conditions frequently fogged up the viewfinder. Also, like most other 'farangs' to Thailand, I would perspire to the point of being pretty wet during extended walks and tours, and this may have been a factor. However, I would not consider this to be abnormal use or abuse of the camera, so I am most unhappy with the F80 / N80 and with Nikon. I have tried to escalate this through the management chain at Nikon Canada, but to no avail. I quote: "We do not cover any environmental situations in our warranty coverage." From my perspective, they have not designed a camera that is at all reliable in normal use, by normal people. Equally telling, as a company, they have chosen to alienate the customer, rather than offer the benefit of the doubt.
If you're shopping for a camera, and like the F80 / N80, keep this in mind.
Hans DeBruyn

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: Paul Stimac pstimac@hotmail.com
[1] Re: Results: Pentax 67II $2700 gamble
Date: Thu Dec 14 2000
If you're thinking of buying , I bought my outfit grey market from Delta International www.deltainternational.com - really nice people to deal with and I saved about $800 off of B&H;'s prices. They add there own 3 year warranty. A lot of people had good things to say about them on photo.net. Another place buy at cheaper than USA prices is www.robertwhite.co.uk he's in England, though not techniqually grey market, you'd have to send equipment to England to get if fixed if it needs work.

From hasselblad mailing list;
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001
From: Raj G dec31121999@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Price of hassey
I can't beleive the unbeleible low price of HAssey in India, 150 mm sonar f4 lens for Rs 85000, approx 1900us$, B&H; prices it at 2900 us$
wonder if they are reconditened lens?
hope 2001 is great year for us all
cheers
RAj

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000
From: ncongdon@jhmi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Subject: Re: Purchasing Large Format lenses out of the US!!!
Badger is the best in terms of support, selection, etc., for the things in which I'm interested, and I agree that I will always patronize them, all other things being equal. However, I don't think any body (Badger included) can touch the prices at New Sankyo Camera in Hong Kong. I've found them to be very reliable. Send an email telling them what you want, they'll let you know in a day or so if they have it:
newsanky@hkstar.com
Nathan

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001
From: "Sally Werther" Sally28@tpg.com.au
Newsgroups: aus.photo
Subject: Re: Buying Second hand overseas...Any Gotchas?
A number of issues:
Firstly, regardless of what you have actually paid, customs can apparently put a price on it of what the item is likely to cost in Australia. This is to overcome fraud where you might buy an item for (say) US$1500, but get yourself a receipt for (say) US$700 in order to avoid paying all or some of the taxes.
Secondly, I recently picked up some cameras from customs and was pleasantly surprised when they told me that there isn't actually any import duty on cameras any more. All I was liable for was GST. BTW, they accepted a printout of the relevant eBay page as evidence of the price I paid.
By international standards, Australian customs is a remarkably friendly and relaxed organization, frequently giving the purchaser or traveller the benefit of the doubt. They only tend to turn nasty if it looks like a purchaser or traveller is trying to "pull a fast one" on them. So, your best bet is probably to stick with the truth and pay the GST... just my view on the matter, of course (and I am certainly no tax lawyer).
Have a good trip...
"Tim O'Connor" toc@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au wrote

> Im thinking of buying a camera secondhand overseas, and wondering what I can expect from customs, given the price will > be about 900 USD. (probably 1500 Australian)

...

[Ed. note: special thanks to Pablo Ma� for sharing these sites with us!]
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001
From: Pablo Ma� pablo_mana@hotmail.com To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Cc: pablo.mana@grupobbva.com
Subject: some listings in Spain
Dear sir:
I know a few places, all of them in Madrid. Barcelona and Bilbao should also have great shops. For instance, the collection I have (Leica IIIf, Robot, Contessa Nettel Cocarette...) is a heritage of my grandfather who lived in Barcelona.
Anyway I belive Spain is not a cheap place to buy photo gear. The "cheap" shops of Spain are usually more expensive than the "normal-priced"-shops of New York. I have seized the opportunity of a travel to NYK buing there part of my gear.
The places I know (Calle = Street, Plaza = Square):

DOMENECH FOTO - Pro shop. I like it. Not expensive. I have bougth here some used bargains (at least I hope so). Address: Calle Eduardo Benot, 2 28008 - MADRID Phone: 902 213 141 Fax: 915 401 209 FOTOPRIX - Consumer shop. Low prices. Many shops in the most important cities of Spain. Address: Calle Alberto Aguilera, 62 28015 - MADRID Tlf: 915 490 568 Address: Calle Bravo Murillo, 116 28020 - MADRID Tlf: 915 357 280 - They told me they were going to open a pro shop here. GALEOTE - Pro shop. Address: Calle Gran V-a, 26 28013 - MADRID Phone: 915 314 042 ESTABLECIMIENTOS FOTOGRAFICOS AQUI - Pro central shop and some "satellite" consumer shops. Address: Plaza de Santa Ana, 1 28012 - MADRID Tlf: 915 326 200 Address: Calle Pr-ncipe, 6 28012 - MADRID Tlf: 915 212 726 - I have seen here used gear. FOTOCASION - Biggest used gear in Madrid. Address: Calle Carlos Arniches, 22-24 28005 - MADRID Tlf: 914 676 491 CASA CARRIL - Pro shop. Address: Calle Luchana, 27 28010 - MADRID Tlf: 914 470 512 Fax: 914 487 200 - 915 939 791

I am afraid this is not a complete list, but I think is better than noting.
Best regards and a happy millenium
Pablo Ma�
Spain

From: nyphotoboy@aol.com (NYphotoboy)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 15 Jan 2001
Subject: Re: Which MF for a newbie?
Ron,
I made the leap to MF about a year ago, and this newsgroup was a great help to me. I ended up actually buying a Mamiya 645 Pro TL because it had all the features I needed; I couldn't afford it, though, so I looked into my options and discovered the whole grey market world, and ended up ordering from a mail order store in Hong Kong.
If you haven't already seen this link, it's really the definitive source for all information MF-related:
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/index.html
Information on a really reputable HK mail order source (I use them for my MF purchases) is here:
http://photo.net/neighbor/view-one.tcl?neighbor_to_neighbor_id=51061
People have a lot of opinions about grey market gear, but the reality was this:
For the Mamiya 645 Pro TL kit I ordered, I paid $1200 instead of B&H;'s price of $2599. Lenses were half the price of the B&H; list, and accessories (like addt'l backs) were as much as 60-70% cheaper when purchasing from Hong Kong.
This option may not be for everyone, but if you're buying on a budget, it's worth looking into.
Good luck!
Kerry

From: "Filters C.O.D." cokinfilters@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: aus.photo
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001
Subject: http://www.geocities.com/cokinfilters/
F.A.Q.
How much will it cost?
We are offering Cokin Filters at VERY cheap prices
Is there a postage and handling charge?
We send your filters via Australia Post C.O.D. the charge is usually A$10
How do I get prices?
We will provide a full pricelist soon, until then email Cokin Filter for your requirements
How do I get my filters?
Simply email your order to Cokin Filter , they will be despatched the next day
Any more questions?
Email cokinfilters@yahoo.com

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001
From: Steve Baggett sbaggett@midsouth.rr.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Robert White in UK - Experiences?
Robert White is an excellent establishment for photographic eqipment. The only caveat I would offer is to ask for some form of express shipping, e.g., UPS Express. Normally he sends things "recorded airmail", which equates to registered mail in the US. However it can take as long as 3 weeks for it to arrive (14 working days), so if you need it sooner than that, be sure to mention that fact. They (he) are very nice people to do business with.
"Don Cohen" doncohen@nc.prestige.net wrote:

>I'm looking to buy a Gitzo G1325 tripod with Arca-Swiss BH-1 ballhead. >Total price at B&H; about $1150. Total price at Robert White is about $828, >even after shipping and 3% duty.

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001
From: clink clink@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Robert White in UK - Experiences?
"Don Cohen" doncohen@nc.prestige.net wrote:

> I'm looking to buy a Gitzo G1325 tripod with Arca-Swiss BH-1 ballhead. > Total price at B&H; about $1150. Total price at Robert White is about $828, > even after shipping and 3% duty. >

I purchased a Gitzo 1227 from them a few months ago. I had them ship it via "regular" parcel post. UPS, FedEx, etc. charge a brokerage fee. The item actually arrived at my home (Maryland) in under 7 days and there was no duty assessed. I am very pleased with Robert White and would not hesitate in using them again.
--
Bob Rosenstein

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: nyphotoboy@aol.com (NYphotoboy)
Date: Tue Jan 30 2001
[1] Re: Purchasing a Mamiya 7
I bought a Mamiya 645 Pro TL setup about a year ago from a store in Hong Kong (via mail order) and spent $2500 for what would've cost me $6400 in the states. Even though there's no warranty, I could buy a brand new body and still come out ahead!
Kerry

From Leica Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001
From: Simon Stevens simon@camera-craftsman.com
Subject: RE: [Leica] Texas Leica-on sale
Frank Filippone wrote:

>Robert White products, when impoorted into the USA, and shipped by UPS or >FedEx do get hit with US Duty.... about 3-4%. Plus the inescapable Customs >Broker charges of another $50 or so.... If you have it sent US mail, the >USPS does not exact its pound of flesh at all.. Basically duty free...... > >The free duty is the English VAT that you do not have to pay... 15%... or a >rebate to you of 12%... Usually White already deducts that VAT when he >quotes you.....

Actually, Frank, I'm not sure this is right. Lenses have a duty charge of 2.3%, but still camera bodies do not (the rate is 0%). If you'd like to look this up the information can be found here:
http://www.customs.treas.gov/impoexpo/impoexpo.htm
The HTS number for lenses is 90021190, for rangefinder cameras it's 90065290 and for SLRs it's 90065100. Be sure to look at the rates for NPT countries. Unless you are ordering cameras from Iraq, you shouldn't have to worry about the other. :-) Also, be aware that U.S. Customs and customs brokers do make mistakes which is why the shipper needs to be very clear in the product description.
You have been paying $50 in broker fees? When I ordered a 35mm asph from Dr. Yao I paid duty plus a whole $5.00 in fees. I think you've been ripped off on that one!
Now, as a separate issue, British VAT used to be 15% back when I ran a camera store there. But it's now 17.5% (according to Ffordes when I asked them about it a couple of weeks ago). They said that this is what it is on new equipment but you don't get to deduct as much on used equipment because "the rate is calculated on the profit margin." I used to sell used cameras at the store in the UK back in the 80s and this is a new one on me. Does anyone know if White does the same thing?
Simon Stevens

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: "fake" hasselblad lens?
Why not just buy the real thing from Cayman Camera rather than run the risk of buying "fake" lenses? Check the prices of Cayman Camera versus the Hong Kong Knockoffs and you will likely be impressed.
Collen McGaw has been selling Hasselblad cameras and lenses to me and hundreds others for over 10 years at prices way below New York prices. I have bought over $20,000 of Hassy stuff from her. I buy it in Cayman while diving or just have her FedEx it to me here in Texas.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001
From: DonjR43198@aol.com
Subject: Re: "fake" hasselblad lens?
....
Good morning, Paolo:
We will be going to Cayman again this Spring to do some SCUBA diving and I always enjoy talking to Colleen even if I am not buying Hasselblad equipment from her. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone who wants to buy Hasselblad equipment at the best prices would buy from anyone else.
I ordered a lens one morning, and it was delivered to my doorstep the next morning before 10:00 a.m.
Guess Cayman Camera is just too good to be true so people pay a premium to buy someplace else.
Don R.

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001
From: Joe@Jetpix.com (Joe Oliva/AvPhoto)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Purchasing a Mamiya 7
Robert White is DEFINITELY the place. Especially now, the currency exchange rate has dropped about 20% in favor of the dollar. I'm probably going to get the M7II plus the 43mm, and save around 2,000 less than going through B&H;
All the Best
dolsen@cc.usu.edu wrote:

> Thanks dude, I appreciate the reference. > > Duncan Ross wrote: > > > Some of the best prices on Mamiya are from Robert White: > > > > http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/mamiya.htm#LabelMamiya7 > > > > A body and 80mm will set you back about $2,000 new. > > > > David Olsen wrote: > > > > > I am looking to purchase a Mamiya 7 II in as good as shape as possible > > > so I have been looking on Ebay. How does one know whhat a good price is > > > for a 7 II and maybe the 80 mm lense? Knowing Ebay and some of the > > > games that are played I would like to have a little strategy. Assuming > > > a reputable seller is 80% of BandH a good price or 70% or 85%? Any help > > > is appreciated. > > > > > > David Olsen > > > > -- > > Duncan Ross > > http://DuncanRossPhoto.com > -- > David Olsen

--
Joe Oliva/AvPhoto Joe@Jetpix.com

[Ed. note: guess where the warranty cards sometimes go? ;-) ]
From Contax Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [CONTAX] Re: Contax AX age determination
you wrote:

> > I was interested to find that Contax USA does not keep a data base of > > serial numbers of cameras imported for sale by them. The only time they > > enter such data is when they receive a registration form. > >If that is true, that is a shoddy way to run a business, in my opinion.

Then you'll LOVE this. I was planning a customer event with our rep from another manufacturer and we discussed publicity. I said I could pull several thousand names from our customer base of those who had recently purchased his brand, and speculated that he too must have such a list since his office was the address to which all USA warranty cards were mailed. He (rather sheepishly) informed me that they didn't even read them -- just waited 'til the pile was too big and trashed the lot. I said many bad words that day.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From Panoramic Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000
From: Robert Erickson cirkut8@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Pro Photo
Like I said in my note, I bought the Mexican Noblex last year. If you are looking to buy one I would check with CASA ZERTUCHE,Alejandro Zertuche and find out who does the official Noblex warrentee work. It still may be Pro Photo in Irvine, CA USA
:-)
Bob
--- Frank Militzer militzer@hotmail.com wrote:

> The NOBLEX homepage says that CASA ZERTUCHE, > Alejandro Zertuche is their > importer in Mexico. So, how do the information go > together? > Frank Militzer > > > >Here is a secret, but you have to promise not to > tell > >anybody. > > > >Pro Photo Connection in Irvine California is the > >importer of Noblex for Mexico. A year ago I bought > a > >"Mexican" Noblex for less than anybody in the US > was > >selling them. The Official Noblex Warranty Repair > >Service for all of Mexico is done by Pro Photo > >Connection in Irvine California USA. ;-) > >===== > >Robert Erickson, cirkut8@yahoo.com > >The Panoramic Network: http://www.panoramic.net

=====
Robert Erickson, cirkut8@yahoo.com
The Panoramic Network: http://www.panoramic.net

Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001
From: "Graham Stewart" gxs@dcs.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: Importing equipment to UK from Japan.
according to the hmce.gov.uk site camera lenses are subject to 6.7% duty

Still cameras are 4.2% Cinema cameras are 3.7% Digital still cameras are dutyfree! Lighting apparatus 3.2% Lenses 6.7% Tripods 4.4% Prints 3% Frames 2.5%

God knows how they made all that up
maybe get the company to tape the lens onto a fun camera so u can get it at 4.2% :))
G
"Tony Polson" tony.polson@btinternet.com wrote

> "Mark Suffield" wrote: > > > I am looking at importing a lens from Japan. > > It will be carried by Fedex, what tax will I have to pay. The lens will cost > > about 1300UKP. > > Any info would be welcome. > > Like all carriers Fedex will make a charge for customs clearance at the > port of entry, however companies like Fedex, UPS, DHL and Amtrak will > make a higher charge (typically o20-25) than the UK Post Office > (o10-12). This is perhaps not so significant for a o1300 purchase. > > You will also pay import duty (about 3.5%) on the assessed value of the > item, which will be the declared value (as stated on the customs > declaration), the invoice value or the UK value if there is any doubt > about the first two. This is something of a bagatelle and you may end > up having an assessed value that is a lot more than you expect. > > Finally, you will pay 17.5% VAT on the total of the assessed value, the > import duty and the carrier's customs clearance charge. Yes, tax on > duty; in the UK we even pay tax on tax! > > So if you are lucky, you will pay "only" ... > > o20.00 Customs charge > o45.50 Import Duty > o238.96 VAT > > ... making a grand total of o304.46 on top of the price of the lens. > > If you are unlucky you may pay even more, but there is a theoretical > right of appeal against the assessment by Customs and Excise. > > Needless to say, make sure the package is well insured. > > P.S. Have you checked whether you can get the lens for a lower price > from Singapore? In general, Japan no longer appears to be as cheap as > it was several years ago. > > -- > Tony Polson

From Nikon Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001
From: John Albino jalbino@jwalbino.com
Subject: Re: OT - RE: [NIKON] US price advantage
Tax rates in the U.S.
Several U.S. states have no *state level* sales taxes, but do have local (e.g., city, county, some other local jurisdiction) sales taxes. As of January 1, 2001, the following states have 0% state+local sales taxes:

- -- Delaware - -- Montana - -- New Hampshire - -- Oregon

Most states levying sales taxes have "use taxes" which are at an equivalent level to sales taxes. If one doesn't pay sales tax at the point of purchase (e.g., on a mail order purchase), one is legally obligated to pay her/his state directly the use tax on the purchase. In real life, practically nobody does, although some states are getting very aggressive in trying to enforce use tax payment, especially in today's easy internet commerce environment.
You can check it out for yourselves by looking at the table at http://www.salestaxinstitute.com/sales_tax_rates.html
Also, FYI, the following states have no state income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming.
Often, however, states with no income tax have very high sales taxes and/or property taxes.
You can check out more info on state taxes, including state income taxes and other taxes, at the Tax Foundation web site,
http://www.taxfoundation.org/, with specific info on states taxes at http://www.taxfoundation.org/statefinance.html
- --
John Albino
mailto:jalbino@jwalbino.com

From Nikon Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: [NIKON] Re: US price advantage
you wrote:

>Have NJ ever had 0% sales tax, have ANY state had 0% sales tax >or am I totally misinformed ?

There are states with no sales tax.

>But that only counts when you order by mail order, right ? >I stayed a few days in Parramatta, NJ, while on a business trip >and went to B&H; in NYC to purchase a few items and I wasn't >a subject to any interstate tax...

Here's the deal. If you buy something in a NYC store and take the merchandise with you, you will pay 8.25% sales tax. If you buy in the store, or via phone/web/e-mail and have your merchandise shipped within NYState, you will pay the local destination sales tax rate on the merchandise and the s&h; fee. If you have the merchandise shipped out of NYState, the retailer will not collect sales tax. You may be liable for Use Tax in the destination state, but the retailer will not collect it, nor will the retailer inform your home state of the transaction.
If the retailer is audited by NYState, and NY & your state have a reciprocal agreement (as do NY & NJ), NYState may tell yours.
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From: "Michael Shorts" mshorts@cisco.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy Mamiya if not in US?
I recently bought Mamiya gear from Robert White in the UK (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/index.htm). I recommend them highly. They were very good about keeping me informed about the status of my order. The price was much better than anything in the U.S. Shipping is a little more, and I had to pay about 2% customs duty. I received the equipment in good condition two days after shipment.
It would be nice if they had secure on-line ordering though. That would have saved a few days of order processing (Robert White had to confirm that I would pay the shipping charges, which were not listed on their fax form).
Michael
...

rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: "Amr Ibrahim" amr_i@swbell.net
Date: Sat Mar 03 2001
[1] Fuji Camera Prices in the UK
Here is a cut-and-past from Robert White Site (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/) for Fuji prices new as of March 3rd, 2001. Even with exchange rate of $1.5 to the Pound Sterling, the prices for the 67 and 69 models are surprisingly cheaper in comparison to the best prices from NY; the difference is around 35 to 40%. Am I missing something?

Fuji ..... Special Offers Fuji GA 645 Zi ..... o804 Fuji GW 670 III ..... o549 Fuji GW 690 III ..... o549 Fuji GSW 690 III ..... o672

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001
From: Scott Hicks mrhenryclay@home.com
Subject: Re: USA versus International Warranty....
With an "unauthorized" dealer you won't get the rebates from Hasselblad.
The current promotion from authorized dealers involves the purchase of a 503CW, a lens & film magazine - you get a PME45 at no charge. The free PME45 offsets the lower purchase price.
Scott Hicks

[Ed. note: possible problem with customs and film/paper! Thanks to Ed Myers for sharing this tip!]
From panoramic mailing list;
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001
From: Edward Meyers aghalide@panix.com
Subject: Re: 5" b&w; film for sale
I have no need for the film. However, if the film is being shipped from Europe attempt to make certain the boxes are not opened by customs. Some years back I had enlarging paper shopped to me from Europe and customs opened each box to make certain it was photographic paper, as marked on the boxes. Needless to say, I received to paper, but.... Ed

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001
From: BLADHASS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Any happy Cayman Camera customers in the San Francisco Bay area?
hartzell@alerce.com writes:

> I'm looking for a happy Cayman Camera customer in the San Francisco > Bay Area.

I have a friend in Seattle that just spent over $12,000 with them last week. Great service, fast shipping. He bought 503CW outfit plus a Xpan
Peter

Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001
From: George Hartzell hartzell@alerce.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: Any happy Cayman Camera customers in the San Francisco Bay area?
...
I'm shopping for an XPAN, and Cayman says that Hassy will only let them sell to existing customers or to walk-in business. No new phone/fax/email orders. Grrrrrrrr.
So, I'm hoping to find someone here who can launder a purchase for me.
g.

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001
From: dro239 dro239@airmail.net
Subject: Re: Any happy Cayman Camera customers in the San Francisco Bay area?
Too bad this didn't come up a couple of weeks ago. I have just spent 10 days at Cayman diving. Over the years I have spent well over $20,000 with Collen McGaw of Cayman Camera.
Didn't know of the problem.
Don R.

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001
From: BLADHASS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Any happy Cayman Camera customers in the San Francisco Bay area?
....
Yes, Hasselblad did put the screws to Cayman Camera. Why pay 30% more just for some American marketing? We Hasselblad users do not need to the classes, workshops, etc. Just keep making a great product and get away from raising the prices 2-3 times a year. How would you work a deal if my friend can get the good price for you.
Peter Peterson

From Hasselblad Mailing List:
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001
From: BLADHASS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Any happy Cayman Camera customers in the San Francisco Bay area?
roger@beamon.org writes:

> You can bet your sweet bippy that it was the U.S. dealers that put > the screws to Hasselblad to put a stop to Cayman's mail order > sales! > > Is Cayman restricted from mail ordering anywhere else or just > the U.S.? Seems like a restraint of trade situation to me. Can U.S. > dealers mail order to Cayman (not that anyone on Cayman would > buy from the U.S.). I'd like to hear Henry's views on this. I > suspect that I know them already. > > This whole arrangement is nothing more than price fixing, pure > and simple. Another arrow removed from your quiver of free > trade. > Roger

If Cayman can sell a 503CW body for $1350 and US dealers sell the body for over $2000, someone is making good money. I know places like Delta International have the lower price, but for how long. I love my Hasselblads, but can they justify raising the price's over and over. I have had a need for a 220 645 back the A32, they sell for $1001. One Thousand Dollars for a back that just holds one roll of film. For that price it should feature the ability to hold and automatically load at least a ProPack of film.
Peter Peterson

Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001
From: "Mike" nobody@nobody.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying a camera overseas.
Here is a web site that may help.
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.html
I was in Japan in December and found that the best prices at Japanese discount stores are about the same as the best US Mail order prices. Keep in mind that in the articles at the web site above (written in 1998), the exchange rate was about 146/dollar and now it is about 120/dollar. Be sure to read all the "Readers Comments."
Japanese cameras come in two versions: domestic (Japan) warranty, instructions, software, etc., and international versions which come with English (among others) instructions and an international warranty. The international versions are usually sold at stores in airports and other tourist locations. Obviously the Japan warranties are pretty much worthless once you leave the country.
On top of that, you may have a customs problem when you come back to the US (unless you want to throw away all your packaging and manuals).
"AEllars104" aellars104@aol.com wrote

> Hello, > > I am looking for some links to shops in Tokyo that sell medium format and 35mm > equipment. I would like to compare those prices to the UK and US prices. Please > reply if you have any URL's or phone numbers. > > Thank you.

Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001
From: Charles Meyer crmeyer@home.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying a camera overseas.
I was just over there last week. My experience (mostly in shops in Kyoto) is that some medium format stuff can be reasonably priced (Mamiya Universal cameras in mint shape for $330, Mint Fuji GS645S for $330, new Voightlander rangefinders), but most everything I saw was more expensive than I could buy it for in the US (especially the European stuff).
Charles

From: wiltw@aol.com (Wilt W)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Date: 08 Jun 2001
Subject: Re: Buying a camera overseas.
I have been to Japan quite a few times over the years, and I have never found any real bargains in photographic equipment, compared to the NYC mail order prices. (Electronics in general are a different story.)
About the only time you might find a bargain is if the dollar has very recently strengthened against the yen...the yen price stays fixed in the stores over there, but you buy more yen with a dollar.
--Wilt

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001
From: Mehrdad Sadat m.sadat@verizon.net
Subject: my dealer contacts
I thought only one person was interested in my contacts but looks like there are many so I will post them on the list.
The first was is poon, I have been dealing with him for almost two years and I bought all my Hass equipment from him (203,250,110,150,50,903swc) and most of my Leica m6 stuff. He is very trust worthy. he sells regularly on ebay, his ebay id is etefore. also if u live in the us, items will arrive @ your door via us mail express and there is no duty tax. his email address is etefore@netvigator.com. I usually email him with what I want and emails the price, we negotiate a little (if i think there is room) and then i wire the agreed amount. about 4-5 days later, everything shows up @ my door. if you decide to work with him, please let him know I referred him to you.
his ebay items are
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&useri;$
The second one is Tony rose. Tony use to be the supervisor in the Bel Air camera store in westwood, CA. He is very nice and knowledgeable now he is on his own and sells on ebay and his clientele. Last I talked to him, he was liquation an state sale with tons of new hass and other stuff. He also has access to far east and matter of fact I ordered a leica m6 from him. his email address is asa100@gte.net. once again if you deicide to work him, let him know i referred you.
his ebay listing
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid;=meleica&includ;$
I am referring both of these people because i want both of them to prosper and for you all to get more for your money.
Thanks, Mehrdad
[Ed. note: attachment from hasselblad mailing list]
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001
From: Mehrdad Sadat m.sadat@verizon.net
Subject: RE: Any happy Cayman Camera customers in the San Francisco Bay area?
I can recommend two source in in hk and one in us that can give even better prices than cayman camera. contact me off list if you are interested
Thanks, Mehrdad

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001
From: Tony Polson tony.polson@btinternet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Retailer question
Andrew Koenig ark@research.att.com wrote:

> Me> Has anyone used this retailer before. The link is > Me> http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/index.htm. The store is in England > Me> and some of the prices, especially on Mamiya are fantastic. > > You should be aware that shipping Mamiya products into the US > without permission of the official importer is *illegal*, and if > Customs happens to check such a shipment, they will probably > confiscate it.

I don't believe there is any factual basis for these statements.
As far as I am aware:
Mamiya's agreement with US Customs applies only to new Mamiya products intended for resale. It is intended to prevent the establishment of a gray market in new Mamiya products which sell at extremely high prices in the USA compared to the UK.
It cannot be used to prevent private importation for personal use.
If any of my facts are wrong I would welcome any correction, as long as it is based on *fact* rather than arbitrary and gratuitously alarmist statements that have no basis in fact.
I would also suggest that anyone interested in buying Mamiya equipment from Robert White should email the company to ascertain the facts. There is no way that Robert White would ship anything to the USA is there was any risk of confiscation - as it would be Robert White's loss.
--
Tony Polson

Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001
From: Ted Kahn twkahn@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Robert White - another question
Recently there was a thread about ordering Mamiya equipment from Robert White for import into the U.S. I understand why Mamiya equipment is cheaper outside the U.S. (only Mamiya America can import Mamiya equipment into the U.S. for resale). But I noticed on the Robert White web page that they sell the Fuji GW 670 III for about $770. By comparison, B+H charges $1259. The price in the U.K. is less than what you might pay for a used camera in the U.S. Other Fuji cameras on the website are also much cheaper than what B+H charges. Why is Fuji equipment so much cheaper outside the U.S.? Is this just a special case, or is all medium format equipment cheaper outside the U.S.? Does anyone know whether the Fuji warranty would be valid in the U.S.?
Thanks,
Ted Kahn

Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001
From: Charles Pezeshki pezeshki@moscow.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Robert White - another question
Hi Ted,
I order lots of stuff from Robert. They rock.
No, your warranty will probably not be valid. But if you have a real problem, you can ship it back to Robert White.
Where I live (Idaho) I have no access to warranty service anyway, without shipping something back. That means if I want something fixed, I have to pay (there is good camera repair in Spokane) or it has to be shipped to one of the coasts. In the probabilities of life, I figure that I will not bust my gear to the point where it can't be fixed locally, and that it will also probably last the warranty period, since I'm an amateur. For me, it's worth saving close to 30-40% on MF gear that I couldn't afford if I had to pay full US retail.
If you bought something used from Midwest or B&H; (which typically sells used stuff at higher price than Robert's new stuff) then you'd still have to ship to them to get warranty service. I'd rather take my chances with something new. Plus, most MF and all LF gear is really simple, compared to 35mm. And heavy-duty. I believe it is much less likely to have problems, and my experience so far has backed this up.
Chuck
http://users.moscow.com/pezeshki

Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001
From: "Mike" mfeldman@qwest.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Robert White - another question
In the case of Fuji prices at Robert White, there are several factors that may account for such a wide price discrepancy between US and UK prices.
1. Prices advertised by Robert White do not include a 17.5% Value Added Tax that is collected on all sales within the EU. Although the VAT is not charged to US customers, there is may be some import fees paid by US customers by ordering from Robert White, but I am not certain. Remember that the vast majority of Robert White sales are in the EU, and they have to price accordingly in order to stimulate demand.
2. The exchange rates have changed quite a bit over the past year or two. The US dollar has gained over 7% against the British pound and even more over the Japanese Yen. FujiFilm USA has not seen fit to lower their prices accordingly, at least not until the changes are likely to be seen as permanent. Keep in mind that importers (at least those owned by manufacturers) often don't raise their prices for short term weakening of US dollar and therefore don't like to lower prices when the dollar becomes stronger. But there is no doubt that the US importers are cleaning up on the current exchange rates.
3. Robert White appears to be a direct authorized importer of Fuji equipment into the UK and probably has much lower overhead expense than FujiFilm USA. Just like B&H; can import gray market Nikon equipment at a much lower price than Nikon USA.
4. FujiFilm USA do not see MF sales as a strategic part of their business. Therefore they are not aggressively pursuing market share. Their primary goal is to achieve a major presence in film sales and digital camera sales. These represent hundreds or thousands of times larger sales volume than MF sales.
"Ron Todd" rltodd@ix.netcom.com wrote

> I wish someone could explain this. The medium format prices seem so > high in the U.S. compared to outside and they seem to increase in a > peculiar, to me, fashion. It seems Hassleblad (in the U.S.) raises its > prices, again, and bang, up go Bronica, Mamiya and Fuji. It is almost > as if they get together and plan their increases (which they can't do in > the U.S. because that's an anti trust violation). The only thing I can > figure doesn't make sense. That is the MF importers have all decided > that MF is dead and they are trying to squeeze the last dollar out of > the market. This doesn't make sense because the manufactures keep > introducing new MF models. As I said, I wish someone would explain it. > > > Ted Kahn wrote: > ... > > > website are also much cheaper than what B+H charges. Why is Fuji > > equipment so much cheaper outside the U.S.? ...

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001
From: "Colin Hargreaves" rjent@cablerocket.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying a camera overseas.
I'll take any addresses that you may have for Taiwan where I may be able to purchase Mamiya RB equipment. I am in Canada and have found that even prices in New Zealand are about half what I pay at home.
"red rabbit" redrabbit@sofcom.com wrote

> I don't know what brand or format you are interested in, but I think > the dealers in HK and Taiwan usually have the best prices for > Hasselblad and Nikon. I live in Taiwan and know this to be a fact > compared with Japanese prices. Traditionally prices in Japan have > always been higher than their export prices. That is because they are > in a position the screw the locals for as much as they can because the > market is more narrow, yet the realtive affluence is high. The prices > are lower in the US because the Japs want to saturate relatively large > market which in all probability reflects the true market value of > their goods.
.....

From Bronica Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001
From: "Edwin Leong" eleong@camerahobby.com
Subject: Subject: Dilemma: PS 40mm or PS 50mm
I have both lenses and find the 40mm is the one I reach for most often because it is close to the field of view as one of my favourite 35mm format lenses, the 24mm. I like outdoor landscapes myself and feel the 40mm is the more appropriate choice for such use. The extra 10mm of coverage is very addicting compared to the 50mm lens.
If you did a lot of people photography (groups or otherwise) the 50mm is perhaps the more reasonable lens to use with less of the lateral distortion inherent in wide-angle lenses (the effect of making people at the edge of the frame look like Weight Watchers candidates). I tend to use the 50mm for people shots more often than the 40mm when the 80mm is not wide enough.

> I'm about to buy a WA lens for my SQAi but cannot decide wether the 40mm or > the 50mm is the better choice, I plan to buy one lens not both :-) and > unfortunally there is no posibility to rent the lenses to discover which one > I like. I'll be using it outdoor, landscape shooting. > > Ps, why is Bronica so expensive in the US: a PS 50mm costs $ 2200,-- but > here in the Netherlands the 50mm can be have for HFL 2495,--. At the current > exchange rate that would be a mere $ 1100,--.....

The cost of a lens in a given country is all due to the country's distributor and the pricing policy of the distributor. Tamron USA is the Bronica distributor in the US and charges quite expensive rates to their affiliate stores. In Canada, where I am from, Amplis Foto is the distributor and has very favourable prices for Tamron and Bronica products. With the strength of the US dollar vis a vis the CAN dollar, an American purchaser could save as much as 30% by sourcing a lens from a Canadian store.
Example, PS 50mm lens sells for $1779 US at B&H; Photo but sells for only $1900 CAN in most stores in Canada (street price is probably $100 less). $1779 US converts to roughly $2800 CAN, which is an outrageous sum of money to pay for the same lens in Canada (even more than the actual MSRP of the lens). $1900 CAN converts to roughly $1300 US, providing US purchasers $500 in savings (not including S&H;). Even if the lens is a dog and requires servicing, $500 US pays for a lot of S&H; fees for a warranty repair back in Canada (but Tamron USA would probably honor the one-year international warranty on the lens).
The other lenses in the PS line have similar price discrepancies.
Edwin Leong
www.camerahobby.com

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000
From: Alan alanlo@hongkong.com
Subject: Re: 503CW
For your information, a set of brand new 503CW in Hong Kong costs less than $2,400.
Alan.
Olen Sumrall wrote:

> I live in Mississippi and I would like to buy a503CW Millinneum and I > found one on Ebay from adealer in Hong Kong.Would this be considered a > Gray Market camera sinceit would be bought from someone outside the > USA. ThanksOlenolens@netdoor.com

[Ed. note: thanks to Wayne for sharing this resource site!]
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000
From: Wayne D wdewitt@snip.net
To: rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu
Subject: German Photographic Equipment
Hi Bob;
I'd like to tell you that I've found your website to be very informative, great work. I am Emailing various persons whom I've come in contact with on the forums during the past year about a supplier that I've found. If you use Schneider or Rodenstock lenses, or B&W; or Heliopan filters or adapter rings, I've found a supplier in Germany who is easy to work with and has prices that are as low as 50% of what we are paying in the U.S. (I'm saving $2,700 over B&H;'s prices on the 110XL and 150XL lenses), he even beats Robert White's prices (I am replacing all of my aluminum stepping rings with brass Heliopan rings - his prices average almost 70% less than B&H;'s prices).
His name is Christoph Greiner, he speaks English very well. His Email address is: chr.greiner.photo@t-online.de . He does not have a website yet. He is a very reputable dealer, and is the German rep. for Walker and Ebony cameras.
Regards,
Wayne

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000
From: Bruno Erni brunoerni@bigfoot.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: new/used dealers in Tokyo/price for Mamiya 7
Hi JH,
had the same idea as you and here's what I did:
I bought my Mamiya 7/II with the 43mm, 80mm and 150mm just a year ago in ... Tokyo. People will tell you to go to Akihabara. It's true, you can get just anything there but I have never found a store that was actually *cheap* there. After living in Japan (Tokyo Area) for a year I can assure you that the cheapest place for photo equipment (and anything that's electronic) is Yodobashi Camera (in Shinjuku - which is in Tokyo. There's another one in Yokohama). Their marked prices are usually quite a bit below the manufacturer's recommended price! Make sure to apply for the "gold point card" when you're there. With that you get 10% of the purchse's value back as points on your card for the next time you buy something (only if you pay cash; if you pay with plastic money it's 5% I think). I first bought the body, the 43mm and the 150mm lens. With the points on the card plus some cash for the difference I then got the 80mm (since I wanted to use up as many of the points as possible!)
Here's what I ended up paying:

body + 80mm 216.600 (marked Yodobashi price) 43mm 172.500 ( " ) 150mm 97.500 ( " ) Total 486.600 + jap. Tax 5% 510,930 - Gold Points 10% 459,837

It's up to you to figure out how much this is in your currency. One year ago the yen was quite a bit cheaper, I saved about 40% of what I would have had to pay for the same thing in Switzerland.
B.t.w. Yodobashi Camera also has a huge store with only used cameras (it's in a different building, though). You might get a good deal on a used camera.
Hope this was helpful. If you need more help, just write.
Bruno
P.S. Yodobashi even helped me get an english manual for my new camera. They called Mamiya, which is about a half hour walk from the Yodobashi store, and asked if I could go and exchange my japanese manual for an english one.
JH wrote:

> I'll be going to Tokyo (I've never been) for a brief visit near the end of > this year, and I'm wondering if anyone can recommend good photo stores, > either new or used. I'm specifically planning on getting a Mamiya 7 or 7 > II; in addition to the store recommendations, what would anyone suggest a > good price in yen for this camera at this time? On hearing where I was > going, a friend raved, saying Mamiya equipment was just about half price > relative to current prices in the US. > > Thanks!

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
From: LZ lingzhou@eesn10.ews.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: new/used dealers in Tokyo/price for Mamiya 7
An excellet web site is
http://photojpn.org/
They even have a map of Tokyo pinpointing all major camera shops there!
Happy shopping!

Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001
From: Charles Waugh rufwiley@bellsouth.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Robert White - I bought a Fuji, no problem!
Group,
I purchased a GA645Zi new from Robert White in February. It was an excellent deal for an excellent camera. They informed me that I would be liable for a 3% duty upon receipt of the camera and that's all. Ted from Robert White also told me that they had been in touch with Fuji UK and told that they have an agreement with Fuji USA so that I could get it fixed under warranty in the US without a problem, if necessary (knock on wood). Fortunately, everything has been perfect with this camera, and I have even made another excellent purchase from them.
Chuck

From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001
From: "Don Ferrario" webmaster@nikonlinks.com
Subject: Re: Grey Market/ was Which MF camera?

>but KEH's "warning" says more: it says they may >perform worse than "U.S. products". I won't ask you to argue, characterize >or explain KEH's statement in any way, but simply whether B&H; would agree >that Nikon "gray market" items may not perform as well as "U.S. warranted >products", and if you would agree, in what respect that might be true

Rick: KEH's statement is simply justification for their own prices. In many cases, KEH wants more for a used item, than what you can buy a grey market new one for. KEH's statement is self serving. Moreover, it is simply WRONG, at least as it applies to Nikon products.
Take any particular Nikon product. Let's say a F100 body. Nikon makes them (someplace). At that point, it isn't known whether it's going to the US, or elsewhere. Some of those are shipped to Nikon USA, the "official" importer. Some are shipped elsewhere, but are purchased by dealers in the US, and brought to the US. Either way, the item is the SAME THING. To say that a grey market item "may not perform as well" is simply wrong.
What may be different is the Nikon USA is only obligated to warranty those items it sold. That is only reasonable. Why should they fix a camera they did not sell, for free?
What really makes KEH's statement absolutely wrong, with respect to Nikon, is that Nikon USA's warranty is not transferable. That means that someone can buy a "USA" Nikon F100. Then sell it to KEH. When KEH sells it to you, it has NO warranty, as far as Nikon USA is concerned. The only warranty is KEH's.
Which is exactly the same as buying a new grey market camera from a dealer in the US. The warranty is provided by the store.
As I said earlier, KEH often asks more for a used item, than B&H; wants for a new grey market item. Since there is no difference in the item, and no difference in the warranty (none from Nikon USA), which one would you rather have?
don ferrario
http://www.nikonlinks.com
http://www.ferrario.com/don
(Rick - note some manufacturers do have different models in some other markets, but generally those models have a different designation or model name)

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001
From: "Cousineau , Bernard" bcousineau@tmisolutions.com
Subject: RE: Canadian Customs Practices

>From: Jack Casner >Does anybody have any experience with shipping items to Canada. Are there >any special Canadian Customs requirements that can be eased by certain >customs declarations? For example: would "used photo equipment" be charged >a different rate than "used camera"? >Jack Casner

I believe that the correct classification is "used photographic camera," but anything in that ballpark should be fine.
Canada Customs does not charge duties on most consumer photographic equipment, but they will charge 7% GST (federal tax) and the applicable provincial tax, if any. If you ship by regular mail instead of using a courier service, you may find that you won't get charged any taxes, but Canada Post is getting "better" at collecting dues. One other thing to watch out for is "customs brokering fees." Canada Post charges a fixed rate of about CAD$5.00, Fed-Ex includes the fee in your shipping charges, and UPS charges on a sliding scale according to the declared value, which you may be able to find on their web site. Not so long ago, UPS had a fixed $50 fee, but they have since dropped the practice after getting a lot of bad publicity (such as a national consumer show telling their viewers to "never use UPS for internationnal shipments").
You could, of course, declare the package to be worth much less than it's actual value, but this would mean that you could not insure it at full value either, which is a bigger hassle, in my opinion.
Bernard

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001
From: Ragnar Hansen Ing A/S raghans@powertech.no
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: 203FE price reductions
I was at a meeting at the factory in Goethenburg six weeks ago and I asked them about the US price reduction on the 203 . They replied that this was done in US to bring the price there to the approx same level as the rest of the world. They had no intention of reducing the price elsewere and production on both 203 and 205 would continue.
Ragnar Hansen

From Nikon MF Mailing List;
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001
From: "Isaac Chan" IsaacC@exchange.microsoft.com
Subject: US Version. Was RE: Re: Grey Market

>From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video [mailto:henryp@bhphotovideo.com] >For newer products, the USA-warranted product's serial number may >contain the letters "US" as part of the serial number, but not always.

I have a US version 300mm f/2.8 AF-S and there is a "US" sticker on it. Anyone knows whether the stick is put on in Japan or in the US. The reason I ask is that there seem to be some sign of handling when I got mine. The box is sealed and taped so I suppose no one has touched it after it is packaged unless it is repackaged in the US.
I have also always wondered about the "US" lettering. Is this done in Japan or is this done in the US? I have a 35Ti with the US engraving before the serial number. The "US" does not really line up with the serial number so it must have been done after the fact. Where is it done?
/Isaac

From Hasselblad Mailing List;
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
To: hasselblad@kelvin.net
Subject: Re: B&H; "IMP" rated film...
you wrote:

>Noticed that B&H; has Velvia 120 pro-pack for $XX.XX, and then >they have the same rated "IMP" (direct import I assume) for about >$5 less. Now, I don't want to compromise on film quality for a few >dollars, as it is the least expensive part of the equation. But B&H; >states they warranty the film, and I expect this to mean that it >has been handled professionally (properly) and will perform at >expectations. Does anyone have experience buying said rated >film, and what were your results?

Our warranty on film is at least as good as Kodak's which states: LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: This product will be replaced if defective in manufacture or packaging. Except for such replacement, this product is sold without warranty or liability even though defect, damage, or loss is caused by negligence or other fault. Since color dyes may change over time, this product will not be replaced for, or warranted against, any change in color.
Personally, I have shot miles of Kodak & Fuji "grey market film before coming to work here (when I was shooting full time). I also taught photography various places including the CSPA. I NEVER saw a print, negative, or slide of poor quality whose ills could be laid at the doorstep of the film's provenance to the exclusion of all other variables.

>How about it Henry... :-)

What makes me the expert? :-)
In fact, at this time ALL Fuji pro films are still made in Asia. The ONLY differences between "USA" and "grey market" Fuji pro films are price and WHO brought it into the USA. We sell miles of the stuff. I have received two (2) complaint so far this year about film quality. One said our film had scratches on it. I suggested perhaps the problem was the user's camera or the processor's equipment since we'd been selling his particular type of film all year with no complaints. The other was from a group of pros who bought 25 rolls of film and had complaints about 15, but not about the other ten. If a batch is bad, a batch is bad. Turns out the "bad" film had all been issued to one user, and the not-bad stuff had been issued to other staffers. What do YOU think? :-)
Finally, since we make the same nickle per roll for "USA" as for the other, we don't really care WHICH you buy (as long as you buy knowing what's what). We certainly care WHERE though. If the stuff was routinely bad, how long would people shop with us? The WHERE would be affected pretty darn quickly, no?

-- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From Nikon MF Mailing List:
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com
Subject: Re: Grey Market
you wrote:

>Thanks for the answer. I had believed that Nikon "gray market" items came >with an international manufacturer's warranty which was honored outside the >U.S. Your URL above fairly clearly says that is not the case, and that the >only "gray market" warranty supplied is B&H;'s own, regardless of the >purchaser's location, either when the purchase is made, or at the time >warranty service may be required. Is that correct?

I have never actually taken a "grey market" camera to a non-USA authorized Nikon repair facility and requested warranty service. The purpose of the statement on our web site is to reassure those who have come (inaccurately) to believe that "grey market" products must be shipped back to Japan for warranty service. A USA resident with a "grey market" product purchased from B&H; should return the product to B&H; for warranty service.

>Aside from warranty issues, I certainly don't want to start a debate or >competitive sales pitches between B&H; and any of its competitors here on >NikonMF

Oh shucks, why not? :-)

>, but here is KEH's Internet statement regarding "gray market" >goods, which raises a question about something one frequently hears: > > Consumers BEWARE of GRAY MARKET Products >Gray market products are products manufactured for non-U.S. markets and >brought into the U.S. by non-licensed distributors. These items have not >been approved by the manufacturer for sale in the U.S. and therefore may >not be covered by U.S. warranties. While the products may appear to look >the same as U.S. warranted products, they do not always meet the >performance standards of U.S. products. >http://www.keh.com/

With no disrespect to KEH, they do not sell "grey market," and I understand why, in an effort to retain sales when competing against lower-priced "grey market" goods, they might resort to this sort of message. Kodak does the same with their anti-"grey market" film diatribes which depict the film baking on the deck of a tramp steamer which is chugging through the sun-drenched Horse Latitudes while Sidney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre mix mai-tais for Nick & Nora on the aft deck.
The only sentence in the above with which I take issue is, "While the products may appear to look the same as U.S. warranted products, they do not always meet the performance standards of U.S. products." which I believe to be entirely sans merit and insupportable.

>I know B&H; says there may be differences in name or features (which you say >B&H; always discloses) between your direct imports, which may be >manufactured for other-than-U.S. markets, and the goods imported by >"official" importers, but KEH's "warning" says more: it says they may >perform worse than "U.S. products". I won't ask you to argue, characterize >or explain KEH's statement in any way, but simply whether B&H; would agree >that Nikon "gray market" items may not perform as well as "U.S. warranted >products",

In my experience both buying "grey market" camera equipment (during the 20+ years I shot full time before coming to B&H;) and the 7+ years I have been here, I have NEVER encountered a "grey market" product which performed at all differently than its "USA-warranted" counterpart, unless the product's specifications so indicated (Canon EOS A2E vs EOS 5, for instance).
{snip}

>In that case, though, it might be helpful >to explain why B&H; has concluded there is no performance difference, or how >you know the equipment is identical.

Experience. Both mine, and that of my co-workers and that of our many customers who share their experiences on usenet newsgroups and elsewhere online.

>I hear persistent rumors that *some* of the gray market, directly imported >goods are "seconds" or of lower quality than "officially imported" >goods.

I have NEVER seen nor heard of a verifiable instance. To the best of my knowledge this rumor is without foundation or merit.

> It is clear from B&H;'s website statement that B&H; sells no such >goods, but is it possible that sellers other than B&H; might, do you >know?

Anything's possible. "There is more in heaven and earth Horatio, than is drempt of in your philosophy." Probable is another question, though.

> Can we be sure such "seconds" are not released for resale to anyone >at all by Nikon? If you have any factual knowledge about this, it might be >helpful to us in assessing the truth of these rumors.

I have NEVER seen a photo-product "second." We do, from time to time, get refurbished products from various manufacturers, but they're clearly labelled, boxed differently, and are only sold through our Used Dept.

>This issue is a perennial source of confusion and debate among our members, >and on other lists,

I know. Shame. Doubly a shame when different manufacturers and their licensed importers cloud the situation with fear tactics instead of addressing the issues forthrightly. Let me know if this adequately clarifies your concerns.

-- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001
From: "Mike" mfeldman@qwest.net
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying a camera overseas.
I am not an expert on import duties, but I just looked at the following website: http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/travel.htm (click on "Know Before You Go" and scroll down to section on "Paying Duty") which suggests that after your $400 exemption is used up, for goods purchased in Japan there is a flat rate of 4% (3% effective Jan 1, 2002) for the next $1000. It is not clear from the website what the duty is over $1400 ($400 + $1000), but it seems to imply that it is higher than 4% flat rate.
...

Date: 26 Jun 2001
From: kevin_i@my-deja.com (kevin_i)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
Subject: Re: Buying a camera overseas.
Hi. I just thought I'd add my two cents to the mix.
I've been living in Japan for four years now (a bit northeast of Tokyo) and frequent camera shops here. Sad to say, there are very few bargains to be had -- especially on new equipment. For a bargain on used stuff, you have to hunt high and low or just get really lucky.
On new stuff, I've found prices in Japan to range from about 20% to 100% higher than US prices (local stores and/or mail order). Used gear prices can range from "reasonable" to "outrageous!". Bargains are rare.
Because of this situation, I do most of my camera shopping on eBay or buy from US dealers. Even with the international shipping, I'm saving money over buying here in Japan.
-Kevin
....

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001
From: Tony Polson tony.polson@btinternet.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Subject: Re: 16 mega-sensor vs mega-pixel warning Re: is digital hurting Leica?
vtVincent@prodigy.Net (VT) wrote:

> Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. > > What you just said is true for color information - to make a single > pixel/site full color requires educated guess-work - ie: > interpolation. > > So what is captured is 1/3 the color infomation. This is as Chris > Brown in another post in this same thread correctly put it - is > Chromiance information > But the luminance information (ie: bright/dark) is captured for every > pixel/site. > > So we have 1/3 the chromiance/color information > and 100% the lumiance information.

100% wrong.
Perhaps that is what the manufacturers would like you to believe. The fact is that every CCD pixel is covered by a filter that absorbs all light except that of the primary colour that the pixel is intended to measure. 25% measure red. 25% measure blue. 50% measure green.
THEREFORE THE PIXEL CANNOT RECORD ANY LUMINANCE OF ANY OTHER COLOUR.
100% of the light of any other colour will be 100% absorbed by the filter and prevented from reaching the CCD. 100% simple physics.
Sorry for the capitals, but I wish to make the point 100% clear.
;-)
--
Tony Polson

From Nikon MF Mailing LIst;
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001
From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com Subject: Re: Grey Market
you wrote:

>A business that is dealing in "grey market" goods, >whether they sell cameras, film, flashes, or any other >picture widgets, is dealing in the international >marketplace and playing on the fluctuations of >international currency.

While much of your "grey market" description is accurate, the reason for the difference in price between "grey market" and USA -warranted merchandise is not related to internat'l currency fluctuations. It is due to the additional mark-up added by the American importer/distributor which has to pay for expenses. These include (but are not limited to) advertising, web sites, warranty service, employee training, maintaining an office, participation in trade shows, sponsorship of contests & organizations, and the myriad other things which (for example) Nikon USA or Canon USA must cover. These expenses are not incurred by the "grey market" wholesaler.
....

-- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com

From: wim wiskerke wiskerke@xs4all.nl> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Buying a Leica in Europe Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 mymacv@aol.com (MYMACV) wrote: >I anticipate traveling to the Netherlands in late winter or early spring with, >perhaps, a sidetrip into Germany [Cologne]. Is anyone familiar with the prices >of M6 equipment in these countries relative to USA [NYC]? Make some comparisons for yourself: http://www.schouten-select.com/ http://www.collectcamera.com/ http://www.fotooosterbaan.com/occa/occaindex.html#leica I have a page with a lot of links to shops and online shops with second hand and new photo gear in the Netherlands and Germany: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wiskerke/html/tekoop.html Most are listed with their location. (most comment is in dutch, I'm afraid, as I live in the Netherlands) This is a price list with average second hand prices in Germany: http://photographica-world.de/preisfuehrer/FIRMEN_LM.htm prices are german marks: DM I use this currency converter: http://www.xe.com/ucc/ BTW I know very little about Leica's so you're on your own there. I do know a thing or two about most of the businesses though. The dutch photo newsgroup is still undivided and is: nl.foto The German photo newsgroup is: de.rec.fotografie regards, wim -- http://www.wiskerke.com
From: "Michael Shorts" mshorts@cisco.com> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: FS: new USA Mamiya cheaper than used Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 I ordered about $1500 of Mamiya gear and paid about $30 in US customs. The international shipping was more than customs. If it breaks while under warranty, I'll ship it back to the UK. All told, I saved more than 25%. "Spyros Triantos" pilgrim106@worldnet.att.net> wrote... > Do US customs charge any duty, though? Have you ordered from them? (I > assume you live in the US). > > Thanks in advance, > > Spyros. > > David Grandy dgrandy@accesscable.net> wrote > > Yeah or you can check out the Robert White site and REALLY save some > > money! > > > > http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/
From: kevin_i@my-deja.com (kevin_i) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Is buying a Hassy from Japan wise? Date: 23 Oct 2001 Boy. That's a surprise to me! I live here in Japan and I usually long for US mail order prices on photo gear. It's not rare for US mail order prices to be less than HALF the Japanese store prices. Japanese auction prices are usually lower than store prices and can sometimes be comparible to eBay... but it really depends on the item. Hasselblads and Leicas are just as in demand here as anywhere else... and their prices reflect it. You can find a good deal on new or used stuff here every once in a while if you look hard and get lucky. But to tell you the truth, I do most of my shopping on eBay since it's so much cheaper. YMMV. But to say equipment in Japan is so cheap is a bit off the mark, IMO. -Kevin "Steven Baker" sbaker04@midsouth.rr.com> wrote > As I look for used hassy's on Ebay, I see some hassy's for sale from a Japan > dealer at quite an attractive discount to USA prices. In fact, it is very > attractively priced. Just curious why the equipment from Japan is so cheap > and how does this impact the warranty? I assume there would be no USA > warranty but where would you go to get the equipment serviced?
From: "Steven Baker" sbaker04@midsouth.rr.com> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Is buying a Hassy from Japan wise? Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 I looked at it a little more closely and here is what I discovered. I can buy a Hassy 501CM kit on Ebay through a Tokyo dealer at $2100. The same kit at B&H; is $2995. However, Hassy has a rebate available to US buyers that includes a prism viewfinder (a $1000 option) if you buy the kit; you get a metered viewfinder if you buy the kit + one lens. In other words, it's a wash financially, but I get the US warranty if I buy through B&H.; "kevin_i" kevin_i@my-deja.com> wrote... > Boy. That's a surprise to me! > > I live here in Japan and I usually long for US mail order prices on > photo gear. It's not rare for US mail order prices to be less than > HALF the Japanese store prices. Japanese auction prices are usually > lower than store prices and can sometimes be comparible to eBay... but > it really depends on the item. Hasselblads and Leicas are just as in > demand here as anywhere else... and their prices reflect it. > > You can find a good deal on new or used stuff here every once in a > while if you look hard and get lucky. But to tell you the truth, I do > most of my shopping on eBay since it's so much cheaper. > > YMMV. But to say equipment in Japan is so cheap is a bit off the > mark, IMO. > > -Kevin > > > "Steven Baker" sbaker04@midsouth.rr.com> wrote >... > > As I look for used hassy's on Ebay, I see some hassy's for sale from a Japan > > dealer at quite an attractive discount to USA prices. In fact, it is very > > attractively priced. Just curious why the equipment from Japan is so cheap > > and how does this impact the warranty? I assume there would be no USA > > warranty but where would you go to get the equipment serviced?
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format From: MZ lingzhou@glsn17.ews.uiuc.edu> Subject: re: Buying Hassy in Japan Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 Below is a link to a terrific website about shopping for photo equipment in Japan: http://www.photojpn.org/DIR/vendors.html And of course, its parant site is www.photojpn.org
From: "Kumba" photolunatic@yahooBRISI.com> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Is buying a Hassy from Japan wise? Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 > I live here in Japan and I usually long for US mail order prices on > photo gear. It's not rare for US mail order prices to be less than > HALF the Japanese store prices. Japanese auction prices are usually > it really depends on the item. Hasselblads and Leicas are just as in > demand here as anywhere else... and their prices reflect it. Two weeks ago I bought a new Leica M6 for $1500, new 35 summicron asph for $1100 and mint used 90 summicron pre-apo for less than $700 in Tokyo. That is quite cheaper than any mail order USA price or any price here in Europe. I almost bought totally mint without a single scratch 500c/m+magazine+80 planar CF for 170 000Y = $1450ish. Kumba
From: Lonely Boy lonelyb@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Hong Kong Dealers Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 Hi, I am a Hasselblad user living in Hong Kong. I always find that Hong Kong's Hasselblad price is much much cheaper than the US. When I compare the price in US (say BH Photo), the saving can justify an economic air ticket to Hong Kong. A brand new set of 501CM with CB80/2.8 and A-12N is around US$1,600. A brand new CFi50/4 is also around the US$1,500. -- Have a nice day and eat as much as you can! Lonely Boy http://www.geocities.com/lonelyb
From: "QZI" qzi@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Hong Kong Dealers Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 I can second what Lonely Boy said. You really have to come to HK to believe the prices that you'll get. With the savings, you'll definitely be able to buy a free plane ticket. A while ago I got a brand spanking new Leica M6 for $1400US, how can you beat that? cheers "Chicago User" slapmefivebro@yahoo.com> wrote > > Thanks a lot to both for the information. BTW Lonely Boy, I have had a nice > day and I ate so much I can barely breath. Thanks. -Robert > > "Lonely Boy" lonelyb@yahoo.com> wrote > > Hi, I am a Hasselblad user living in Hong Kong. > > > > I always find that Hong Kong's Hasselblad price is much much cheaper > > than the US. When I compare the price in US (say BH Photo), the saving > > can justify an economic air ticket to Hong Kong. > > > > A brand new set of 501CM with CB80/2.8 and A-12N is around US$1,600. A > > brand new CFi50/4 is also around the US$1,500. > > > > > > -- > > Have a nice day and eat as much as you can! > > Lonely Boy > > > > http://www.geocities.com/lonelyb
From: "Frank Filippone" red735i@earthlink.net> To: hasselblad@kelvin.net> Subject: RE: [HUG] news from our Hassy rep Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 Realistically, labor and material costs rise. They rise more when the volume used is lower. However, you need to ask yourself if the wholesale prices to Hasselblad USA have risen in the SAME NUMBER OF DOLLARS, or as 3% of the price. Ditto the worldwide prices to distributors. The real problem is the protected status of the Hasselblad USA distribution chain. If we were in a different country, prices would already be less. This is a silly argument whereby the foreign ( peculiarly usually Europeon or Japanese) company set up a 100 % owned US Subsidiary, that then decide to make their own 30% profit... and your end prices rise by 50%, just for this extra distribution level. In other coountries, with cheaper consumer prices for the same goods, they have the same scosts of inventory and warranty that are used as excuses for raising the US prices. Rubbish. Purley more profit to the home country, at the expense of increaased sales volume because of lower prices, more competitive solutions, and less direct costs. If and when some of these companies get smart and run a worldwide pricing program, they will win. This includes all this nonsense about discouraging grey market..... One of the biggest grey market vendors is B+H. It is also one of the largest USA licensed distributors. The companies like Leica and Hasselblad and Nikon, and, and, and are unable to control this customer... because they are so reliant on the official sales. Frank Filippone red735i@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: [HUG] news from our Hassy rep To: "hasselblad@kelvin.net" hasselblad@kelvin.net> From: "Charlie Goodwin" cgoodwin@conknet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 May I rant???? " It seems reasonable to me that both Hasselblad and Leica should eliminate their US distributors and "legitimize/embrace" the gray market. I suspect that without the gray market in the US both companies would cease to exist. The elimination of the US distributors would net, arguably, a 25% reduction in prices to many consumers with no decrease in revenue to the manufacturers. Many consumers now unwilling to pay US prices and fearful of the gray market would likely buy these products. Just imagine how many more cameras our honorable friends a B&H; could move if the prices of Leicas and Hasselblads fell 25% overnight." Try 40 to 50%! ! ! ! ! ! Hasselblad, Sinar, Mamiya, Leica...all wonderful cameras, all grossly overpriced here. Buy them anywhere else, and the prices are still high, but nowhere near as painful as in the US. Another price increase (and another, and another) from Hasselblad...and a huge US distributor's cut on top of that will not help win new customers for Hasselblad. I've started shopping abroad for pro equipment ( and not just Hasselblad - also Sinar, Mamiya...), and have found big savings. Since I'm ranting, I'll pick on Sinar...I just purchased some Sinar items out of the UK and spent roughly 230 UK Pounds; equivalent to something like US$350.00 at that instant for stuff that would have cost $600.00 plus here. Sinar's special extra wide wide angle bellows is listed at $536.00 on B&H;'s website, plus I bought two different Sinar hexagonal filter holder rods listed on B&H; also at $44.95 and $25.95... Even with the better price I seem to be offered on the phone at B&H;, and I AM NOT picking on B&H;, because they are a great and honorable company with great people like Henry Posner....but their prices which are in the US context are very good, make my point for me. Why should I pay $550 to$600+ for stuff those camera companies value for $325 or so elsewhere. Remember, that $350ish I paid included international shipping too. I suspect that if I called B&H; on the phone to order them I might get a better price than that, but regardless, I am getting a lousy deal domestically. We are all victims of the US distributor system. Henry Posner and B&H; and all the other great US camera companies are getting shafted too, by distributors who drive US prices to multiples of the prices prevailing elsewhere. When I buy used in the USA, I am getting hit again by an artificially high used price in the USA. The used market floats higher here...since the new price tends to set levels for the used pricing of similar items. A lot of photo items are way more expensive here than elsewhere. We have an inflated US photo equipment market driven by excessive US distributors markups for certain brands. The huge savings I am getting by looking at overseas markets make me wonder what I've been doing all these years. It's frustrating and sad. I would much rather buy locally, but to feed a big chunk to a distributor for little extra value to me??? The distributors often make the argument that "enhanced" US warranties give the value represented by the higher US price, but since when would I want to waste the time with an official manufacturor's warrantee repair shop, when I can get virtually instant work from my local Hasselblad expert or the guys in Boston who keep all the rest of my stuff running right. I don't have the time to ship stuff and wait when I need my camera. Factory warrantees are not a big enhancement in my book. I'll happily pay the two cents to a local guy and be up and running in a day or two. I've been stunned by how quickly the best guys work. I've brought work to Boston and had it shipped back to me in New Hampshire ONLY TWO DAYS LATER! That's AT my door in two days. Wow. Will I get that kind of service at Hasselblad, SinarBron or Mamiya's shops? Sure I paid for the work, but compared to the glacial pace of most warranty operations, who cares. I buy all my small purchases locally, and any big ones that I can, from B&H;, Calumet, etc. But nonetheless, they are taking it on the chin from what are often manufacturor owned distributors who have figured out that the US consumer will cough up the money. I would still be too, had I not read on various sites that prices were dramatically lower elsewhere, and investigated for myself. I might note that not all camera companies stick it to the US consumer. One that comes immediately to mind is Pentax, who has been admirably free of gouging. OK, I'm off my soapbox. I'm going to go cool down.... Charlie
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 To: hasselblad@kelvin.net> From: Henry Posner/B&H; Photo-Video henryp@bhphotovideo.com> Subject: [HUG] Re: news from our Hassy rep you wrote: >One of the biggest grey market vendors is B+H. It is >also one of the largest USA licensed distributors. The companies like Leica >and Hasselblad and Nikon, and, and, and are unable to control this >customer... because they are so reliant on the official sales. Just for the sake of accuracy -- B&H; does not carry "grey market" Leica or Hasselblad merchandise. -- regards, Henry Posner Director of Sales and Training B&H; Photo-Video, and Pro-Audio Inc. http://www.bhphotovideo.com
From: Lambert McLaurin pac911@boone.net> Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Hong Kong Dealers Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 The link didn't work, but I bought a Hassy Flexbody from Tommy at Hong Kong Camera last year. Excellent price, perfect condition, brand new with warranty card, in box with all accessories, took my Pay Pal payment and it arrived in North Carolina in 6 days! I must admit this was 6 days of wondering if I had lost my mind or what?
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 Subject: Re: [Rollei] Leica-like-behavior (was Lionel Trains) From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com> To: rollei@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> Jerry Lehrer at jerryleh@pacbell.net wrote: > Dan > > This is the FIRST time that I have ever > seen Adorama referred to as "reputable". > > They may very well be, but this is still the > first time I have seen or heard that expressed > by anyone. > > Jerry Jerry, I have a somewhat unique perspective on things since I have monitored the number of complaints against all Shutterbug advertisers for years. As you know it is impossible to keep everyone happy all of the time, so even the most reputable dealer in the world will get an occasional complaint. Out of the NYC mail order dealers two stand out from all the rest for having almost no complaints, and resolving the few they do get quickly and to everyone's satisfaction. They are Adorama and B & H. It's no surprise that they are also the two largest. Neither employes high pressure sales tactics, misleading advertisements, bait and switch, and the countless other sales tactics which are common elsewhere. Sam Goldstein is the owner of B & H, Mendel Mendlowitz the owner of Adorama. Both are no-nonsense businessmen and understand that customer satisfaction is an important part of the recipe for real success. Both are tough and shrewd bargainers when negotiating prices with their suppliers, and when buying magazine ad space!!! I send people to both companies with a clear conscience. Bob
From contax mailing list: Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 From: Jasper tiong jasnev@yahoo.com> Subject: [Contax] OT: Cautionary tale-HK shopping Having convinced my friend who wants a nice P&S; camera to get the Contax T3,it's sad to see what has transpired of it. The local price of T3 is about US$900 and having found out he could get it one for US$600 in Hong Kong,his camera naive fiance was given the task of getting it on her recent trip.She unfortunately ventured into one of those tourist trap camera store(READ : most NATHAN ROAD stores in HK) and on nearly finishing the transaction,the salesman probably sussed out she is easy meat and started to push her to get this newer and "better" camera instead,saying T3 is old blah,blah(8 months old after a 10 years model cycle. cough,splutter!!). After some persistent hackling,she bought a Rollei Giro 28 for a princely US$900!!. On touching down today,my friend eager anticipation for the T3 was rudely crushed by the sight of this light and cheap looking plasticky thing.He nearly went into a fit when he checked the B&H;'s price of the Giro 28, US$89 !! The ugly fact is the few shops around the same street have quoted the same camera from US$800-1100.Must be a scam for the less popular Rollei product for the potential tourist.And yeah,there's a small sign saying no refund and return policy. The drama continues and hopefully,there will be a happy ending.Unlikely to befallen on camera savy list members but warn your acquaintances who might be the potential victims. jasper Melbourne p/s-may be getting me to shop for a gold necklace in HK would have me in the same problem.
From: "Austin Franklin" darkroom@ix.netcom.com To: contax@photo.cis.to Subject: RE: [Contax] OT: Cautionary tale-HK shopping Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 > The drama continues and hopefully,there will be a > happy ending.Unlikely to befallen on camera savy list > members but warn your acquaintances who might be the > potential victims. If she paid by credit card, it is typically policy of credit card companies to allow returns. Call the credit card company, and ask... I'd pack it up, and send it registered mail (all you need to show the credit card company is that you sent it, not that they actually received it), and then file a charge dispute with the credit card company. Sorry to hear about your friend's problem!

From: grhinn@i2m.fr (rhinn) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.marketplace Subject: Re: German camera stores? Where? Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 Henry hermcam@mindspring.com wrote: >Any Camera stores in Germany that sell Novoflex, Heliopan etc. that will >ship to USA? > >Henry Hello, for novoflex, try http://www.technikdirekt.de/english/ , for heliopan try http://www.fotomayr.de/ (both very reliable) Best regards Gerard Rhinn grhinn@i2m.fr rhinng@aol.com

Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 From: Lonely Boy lonelyb@yahoo.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: [HUG] Re: hasselblad V1 #1517 It is always cheaper to buy Hasselblad in Hong Kong. A brand new 501CM + CB80 +A12 is selling at USD1,700. I think you can almost save your economy class air ticket by buying in HK than in US. If you buy a couple of lenses and magazines more, you can save the money for a decent hotel and some couples of delicious Chinese cuisine. ....

From: "Ngiam TW" ngiamtw@starhub.net.sg Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: prices of camera's in Singapore/Malaysia? Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 If you are heading to Singapore, try e-quotation at www.cathayphoto.com.sg. This is a reputable shop. I got all my new Nikon equipment there after getting their e-quotes. Their prices will be about the nominal of the bell curve in Singapore. If you get any lower from this e-quote, it could be a parallel import or produced in another courntry other than Japan. If you get any higher, the salesman is just trying to make a living! Have fun bargaining! I have heard that prices of Nikon equipment will be cheaper in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia because of the exchange rate. Never did know the details. Maybe some of my northerly neighbours who see this post can help? "DHN" przeklad@polbox.com wrote > I remember from '90s the prices in Singapore (after heavy bargaining, they will > never tell you the price up-front!) were 1/2 of that in Germany, which was > always already the cheapest in Europe... > Jacek > > > i'm still planning my trip to Japan, and from all the responses it seems > > camera's are more expensive there then here. > > so how are the prices of camera's at the two above countries? i can get > > free > > or cheap ($1/day) stopovers so i might take the opportunity to buy a slr > > cheap. > > i tried yahoo.com.sg but the one hit i got for the eos300 was pretty > > expensive, and the canon.com.sg is fairly expensive as well. >

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 Subject: Re: prices of camera's in Singapore/Malaysia? From: Alan Soon soonalan@hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Check out these 2 major chain stores: - Yodobashi Camera (Shinjuku, Tokyo) http://www.yodobashi.com/ - Bic Camera (Ikebukuro, Tokyo) For used cameras: - Lemon (Ginza, Tokyo) - Fujiya Camera (Nakano, Tokyo) http://www.yodobashi.com/ "Obake" Obake@gehenna.com wrote: > can you give me some store names/locations? > > i want to try and get the new canon eos kiss III L or the black eos kiss > III, 50mm 1.8, bp-200 and some filters, tripod and a bag/case. > > thanks

From: "Ronald Shu" Ronals.Shu@isc.ucsb.edu Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format,rec.photo. technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people Subject: Bargaining BEST PRICE for Contax 645 gear Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 I am going to acquiring a Contax 645 AF SLR gear: Contax 645 AF SLR kit (body, 80 mm /2.0 lens, 120/220 film back, film insert, AE prism view finder, strap) plus three addtional lenses: 35 mm /3.5, 55 mm /3.5, 120 mm /4.0 macro. The total price quoted by that dealler is $6,030 (shipping and custom duty not included). Comparing with B & H 's total price ($9,275) the savings is about 35% (or $3,245 off). So, it is a pretty good deal. If I can find three or five more buyers to place order together, I think we can get even better price. Please drop me a line if you are interested in (of course, you decide what you want ). Let's see how much we can bargain down further. Ronald

From: John Hudson jahudson@shaw.ca Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.marketplace.medium-format,rec.photo. technique.nature,rec.photo.technique.people Subject: Re: Bargaining BEST PRICE for Contax 645 gear Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 .... I bought some Mamiya R7II gear from Robert White in the UK. I saved close on 50% to what I would have paid in Canada. Seems to me that Mamiya MF is vastly overpriced in North America. White's service including its arrangement for air freight delivery was exemplary. Suggest you check out: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/

From: docutique@aol.com (Docutique) Newsgroups: rec.photo.marketplace.35mm Date: 12 Feb 2002 Subject: Too expensive photographic France Too expensive photographic France? Small test comparison of an optics Nikon: New in Germany price 3 811 euros ( 25 000 francs), Occasion second hand boulevard Beaumarchaisin Paris 5 717 euros ( 37 500 francs). In the 14 iSme district of Paris: 1524 euros ( 10 000 francs) in occasion second hand. Web and euro authorize from now on a fast comparison. Conclusion: one will avoid buying quickly in Paris, prices can be shockingly raised (brought up). Certain storekeepers are real swindlers who kill the market. One could even say that certain Frenchmen are swindlers who want to dupe the tourists and the collectors of passage.

[Ed. note: buying hasselblad gear in Mumbai, India?...] Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 From: Sharookh Mehta first@vsnl.com To: hasselblad hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: [HUG] Travel & X Ray The people I buy my Hassie photogear from are called Photokina and their 'e' mail address is photokina@vsnl.com. They are a family business and an excellent company to deal with. BTW one of the most respectable companies in the photographic field in India. Sharookh ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie Goodwin cgoodwin@conknet.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 Subject: Re: [HUG] Travel & X Ray Sharookh, Can you tell us about the Hasselblad shop in Mumbai? How are they to deal with? Would they be good for people from other countries to do business with? Are they more competitively priced than dealers in other areas of the globe? If so, do you have adressing / telephone / contact information you can pass along to the HUG group? Thanks!!! Charlie You wrote: > BTW, in case you need any new equipment pick up your equipment > from the Hassie distributor in Mumbai. Still the cheapest.... > Sharookh

From Nikon Mailing List: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 To: nikon@photo.cis.to From: Don Doucette carguy@cgocable.net Subject: [Nikon] Warning on Nikon Canada Web Site. From Canadian corporate web site located at: http://www.nikon.ca/corporate/default.asp It has come to our attention that certain Nikon branded photographic and digital imaging product is being imported and sold by unauthorized retailers, both over the Internet and in retail locations. Please note that Nikon Canada is the only official authorized Canadian source for all Nikon branded photographic and digital imaging products. Nikon Canada distributes these products through a network of Authorized Nikon Canada Dealers. Always confirm that your camera retailer (whether electronic or 'bricks & mortar') is an Authorized Nikon Canada Dealer. Please consult the Dealer Locator for a list of Authorized Nikon Canada Dealers. If you purchase Nikon branded photographic or digital imaging product from anyone other than an authorized Nikon Canada dealer, beware that Nikon Canada does not, and will not, provide parts, repair services, warranty service or technical support for any such product. Nikon Canada only offers repair services or parts (including warranty service and technical support) for products purchased from one of its Authorized Nikon Dealers. Well I can't say I didn't see it coming. Good luck with all EBAY purchases from now on. Don

[Ed. note: it pays to shop around! even in "unified" European Union!] From: "Mxsmanic" mxsmanic@hotmail.com Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: First impressions of MF / 501CM "SB" sbaker04@midsouth.rr.com wrote > As to cost, I will probably buy a new > international version for around $2350 US > for a kit (body, back, and 80mm CFE) or > just $400 more than the 501CM. You can get the 501CM kit for $1950? It costs $2900 here in France (and that's before sales tax, which adds another $580). Are you closer to Sweden or something? > If anyone could enlighten me to the contrary > as to why I should go ahead with a 501CM, > I'm wide open. Had they both been close in price, I might have gone with the CW, so I can't think of any reason not to get it if your budget isn't a problem. In my case, it cost way more, and I didn't need or care about the metering or a winder, so I did without it. The 200 series seems to be even fancier, but it is ridiculously expensive, and I've already had my fill of gadgets with other vendors.

From: retoricus@hotmail.com (Vagabond) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Mamiya 7 set - Hong Kong or Osaka? Date: 21 Mar 2002 Hi folks After much pondering it seems that my first medium format camera will be a Mamiya 7ii with the 50, 80 and 150 mm lenses. Buying this in Europe or the US would ruin me, but luckily I am in Asia and plan to buy it here. I have looked around and it seems the prices in Bangkok and in Singapore are about the same - 4200 US dollars for this set. The price quote from Singapore was from Cathay Photo via email, in Bangkok it was from the store Foto File. However when asking around in Hong Kong recently it seemed possible to get the same equipment for 3400 US dollars. All these prices were for new gear. But I have a friend in Osaka, Japan who has invited me to visit him, which makes it possible to do the shopping there. I don't expect the new Mamiya prices in Osaka to be any less than in Hong Kong, but what about the used prices? I keep hearing about the bargain "mint" used cameras one can buy in Japan. My question to the Osaka-knowable therefore is: What is the used "discount" for cameras like these in Osaka? (In my view even the nicest used gear should be considerably cheaper than new, and 10 or 20% lower price isn't enough). Also, could I be certain of finding the M7 stuff that I look for in used shop in Osaka? (I would rather not go all the way to Japan only to return empty-handed...) Vagabond

From: "David J. Littleboy" davidjl@gol.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 set - Hong Kong or Osaka? Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 "Vagabond" retoricus@hotmail.com wrote: > But I have a friend in Osaka, Japan who has invited me to visit him, > which makes it possible to do the shopping there. I don't expect the > new Mamiya prices in Osaka to be any less than in Hong Kong, but what > about the used prices? Used prices for a Mamiya 7 (with 80mm lens) runs about 125,000 Yen, the 150mm lens is 83,000 Yen, and the 50mm lens is 120,000 Yen (Ouch!). That's 2,700 US dollars or so at the current exchange rate. The 7II will set you back an extra 30,000 Yen. > I keep hearing about the bargain "mint" used > cameras one can buy in Japan. My question to the Osaka-knowable > therefore is: What is the used "discount" for cameras like these in > Osaka? (In my view even the nicest used gear should be considerably > cheaper than new, and 10 or 20% lower price isn't enough). Also, could > I be certain of finding the M7 stuff that I look for in used shop in > Osaka? (I would rather not go all the way to Japan only to return > empty-handed...) The problem is finding the good used stores. I'm beginning to figure out the ones in Tokyo... David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From: "Tom Lee" tlee@maplesoft.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya 7 set - Hong Kong or Osaka? Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 I recently had a chance to tour the many used camera shops in Tokyo and was surprised by the prices. I was expecting generally similar or higher prices to Canada. This was definitely true for new. Within used based on a totally unscientific assessment, I observed the following - good German equipment (all formats) modestly higher - "usual" Japanese 35mm (e.g. manual SLRs) about the same - large format (especially some brands of press cameras) much lower (e.g. $300 for a Crown Graphic with Schneider + accessories in great shape) - med format Japanese rangefinders much lower (most of my pricing was for Fujica and Bronica stuff though) I didn't check out Mamiyas but my "guide" theorized that these types of cameras were simply much more popular in Japan and there's a lot of supply. I came home with a Fujica GS645S near mint for $300. For this particular camera and any others that I was tracking there seemed to be a variance of 20% up or down from store to store. My friend's been checking out some Fujica 690 prices (for various models) and he's finding good ones at the 70,000 yen level which again seems well priced. I don't know what the other non-Japanese Asian locations are like (or Osaka for that matter) but simply visiting these stores for me was quite an experience and well worth the trip. Tom.

From: bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 30 Mar 2002 Subject: Re: Fuji 690 or Mamiya 7II? >From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) >In the USA, folks are discovering via internet that prices overseas are >often 50% or more off USA prices for Mamiya M7 body and lenses, which >tends to depress used USA prices for USA sellers, I think. A friend who is visiting England next month asked if I wanted him to pick up any photo gear for me while he was over there ... I checked and one of the Mamiya 7 lenses I was eyeing that goes for $2,600 at B&H; is about $1,400 at Robert White's. Incredible. The mark-up by Mamiya of America is outrageous. I'll never buy anything else from them.

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 From: "Brian Walsh" patience@e-mailanywhere.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Fuji 690 or Mamiya 7II? My experience is this: I had a shipment containing one Mamiya 7 II body and two different lenses for the camera (plus a carbon fiber tripod and a Sekonic light meter) arrive with a large label attached: "OPENED AND INSPECTED BY US CUSTOMS". The individual boxes inside had been opened, but everything was repacked and in perfect condition, excepting the copious packaging tape on the main, outer box. FedEx billed me directly for the duty some weeks later; shipping plus duty was approximately 8% of the purchase price. During the two years that I've happily enjoyed the camera and my substantial savings, I've not been contacted by US Customs or Mamiya America Corp. I know that Andrew has discussed this subject very extensively and repeatedly here. I confess that I haven't read all--or even most--of his posts, so it may be no surprise that I cannot recall that he included any direct evidence that anyone has ever had a shipment containing Mamiya items purchased for personal use (e.g., only *one* of any particular lens or camera body) confiscated by US Customs. I'd be interested in hearing of any such evidence; if there is none, perhaps the subject should be put to rest. "Andrew Koenig" ark@research.att.com wrote ... > Michael> You don't have to go to England, Robert White will ship > Michael> direct to you. That will bypass VAT. > > On the other hand, if US Customs happens to notice, they'll confiscate > the shipment. > > -- > Andrew Koenig, ark@research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark

From: Alan Browne alan.browne@videotron.ca Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Canadian purchases of lenses at B&H; - savings Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 Well, as feared the fed gummint in Canada caught up with me and billed me GST for my recent purchase at B&H; of a relatively expensive lens. (late addition to a FedEx bill.). The final tally was lens + GST in CAD$: 1984.21 If I had bought this through my favourite store, it would have come to CAD$2588.06 (GST&PST; included) So my savings was $603.85 less S&H; (US$40=CAD$64.59) = $539.26. (If I had bought US warranty, then it would have been another US$100 or CAD $161). So, worth going to B&H; (or Adorama) for Canadian shoppers? You bet. The local store owner, when I told him all this, smiled. His wife said she buys all her personal lenses in the US. (I give him lots of business otherwise (equipment, developing, film), so he's not too upset I bypassed him. He leads me to believe that his markup on Minolta, Canon and Nikon is very thin indeed.) Part of the problem (I believe) is that the Camera distributors here purchase via the US. So there is padding to cover exchange risk. Second would be the smaller market overall and longer distances, so there are real costs to cover in transportation. Thirdly, Canadian companies are taxed higher, including distributors, and this is built into the prices. Too bad. My threshold is set at CAD$1000.00 If the item is above that, I look to the US. Cheers, Alan

From: James Robinson wascana@mailcircuit.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Canadian purchases of lenses at B&H; - savings Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 dan wrote: > > I'm wondering what the customs brokerage fee from FedEx was? > The reason I ask is that there have been some real horror stories here > in the past from Canadians who were hit with BIG fees by UPS. There is no additional Customs brokerage fee if the item is shipped by air with either FedEx or UPS. They hit you with the extra fee if you ship by ground. The extra fee is high, and based on a percentage of the declared value.

From: James Robinson wascana@mailcircuit.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Canadian purchases of lenses at B&H; - savings Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 Alan Browne wrote: > > There was a CAD$7.00 "advance" fee assessed by FedEx. I didn't include > that in the computation because it was detailed enough, and there was also > a filter in the mix (on which I saved another few dollars too). > > I understand that either the UPS or USPS "customs fee" can be pretty stiff > ... around $25..$35 for a similar transaction. Go FedEx (IMO). The customs brokerage fee charged by the Post Office is a flat $5, payable along with the GST and PST when you go to pick up your package.

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: buying Mamiya offshore -- Hong Kong or UK? From: Sak email_sak@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 Bill, I was studying that my self and found an informative post from Mark Williams in the "Portrait lens close focusing, Mamia 7 vs other" thread in this news group. He bought the 43mm for $1153 from Cameron Photo in HK. I snooped photo.net forum and found others recommending Cameron Photo too. Cameron Photo phone # is 852-2369-1063 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000GnZ .....

From: Tony Clark tcphoto@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: buying Mamiya offshore -- Hong Kong or UK? Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 Bill, I have looked into this question myself. The HK websites will not ship Mamiya items to the US because of the trademark issue. If someone has received items from HK they seem to be the exception. I will be placing my order with Robert White because of the comments I have read from other happy customers. When you can buy an item for half the Mamiya US price, I can handle paying for a repair if it needed. TC

From: mrscience9@aol.com (MrScience9) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 15 Apr 2002 Subject: Re: buying Mamiya offshore -- Hong Kong or UK? I bought a body and lens from Robert White in UK for the same reason you want to. US prices are nearly 50% higher. They were great to deal with and I highly recommend them. Had my gear in hand 3 days after ordering. No problems with customs. Harvey

From: bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 18 Apr 2002 Subject: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Just a follow up, since I posted last week asking for advice re: buying a 43 mm Mamiya 7 lens shipped to the USA from Robert White in England ... I ordered the lens Monday, got notice from them it was shipped Tuesday and received it earlier today (Thursday), shipped via Fed Ex. This is as fast or faster than the 3 day Fed Ex service from New York (B&H;). Cost including shipping was ~ $1,150 less than it would have cost from B&H;, due to the exorbitant mark-up of Mamiya America. White told me I might have to pay a duty charge to Fed Ex but for whatever reason (random good luck?) I didn't have to pay anything extra to the deliverer. The entire buying experience was as fast and easy as purchasing from my usual supplier (B&H;). I realize I don't have a US warranty on the lens but how often does a lens go bad? Anyway, I first heard of White on this forum so thanks to those who contributed to the various threads. Needless to say I'd advise buying from overseas when purchasing brands with excessively high USA markups. Time to give this new wide angle a field test at White Sands National Monument ... Bill

From: "R.W. Behan" rwbehan@rockisland.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 Bill: Thanks for sharing your positive experience with Robert White. I'm snooping around for a Mamiya RB67PSD, and visited the site, after your suggestion. It does look like a great place to do business with, and their price for a 67 with 90mm lens was $2038 (converting UKP to USD), vs. $2928 at B&H.; Thanks again. Dick Behan

From: nyphotoboy@aol.com (NYphotoboy) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 18 Apr 2002 Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White I'ma big fan of buying grey market medium format gear. I used Tin Cheung Camera in Hong Kong to buy my Mamiya 645 Pro TL & multiple lenses (see my posting at http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.html ) What would've cost me $6400 at B&H; cost me a grand total of $2300 buying from Tin Cheung. And I got a separate bill from UPS for the duty, which was about $28. And their prices run even a bit better than Robert White's! Kerry

From: foto28@aol.comnospam (Foto28) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 19 Apr 2002 Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Just adding my vote of appreciation for Robert White as well. Friendly and personal service that's second to none, and exceptionally good prices too. (Not just Mamiya, but Fuji, Pentax, Hassy, Rollei, Gitzo, and many other brands are all priced much lower than US prices.) =============== Danny Burk www.dannyburk.com

From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 Imposition of a duty charge seems to be a hit or miss proposition. On the first two items I ordered from White I wasn't charged a duty, on the third one I was. I don't know exactly how the duty charge is computed but I paid about $30 for a $350 or so purchase. My credit card company also charged me about $10 for something but I forget what they called it. Shipping added another $50 or so, which I figured was about $30 more than I would have paid from a U.S. seller, so the extra cost from purchasing overseas was about $70 above the list price of the tripod, still a very good deal compared to U.S. prices

From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 It was charged immediately by the delivery service - UPS I think it was. They wouldn't deliver leave the tripod until they received a check (made payable to the importer as I recall).

From: Duncan Ross notmyreal@address.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Customs charges (WAS - Buying Mamiya from Robert White) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 If you use UPS you will be charged duty every time. This will be in addition to their customs brokerage charge (the charge for filling out the paperwork). As stated in this thread, they won't release the package until you pay. This is a major inconvenience if no one is around to sign for the package (you have to go to the nearest UPS facility). Fedex charges a bit less than UPS for brokerage and the bill comes after delivery. The last thing I purchased from Robert White was shipped "parcel force" , arrived in 5 days and had no duty.

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 From: "maf" maf@switchboard.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Fuji 690 or Mamiya 7II? A 1998 Supreme Court case has made this issue much more complicated. See http://www.tradelaw.com/l'anza.htm Although this case is not identical to the situation of Mamiya gray market imports into the USA (since Mamiya America Corp is a USA distributor and not a USA manufacturer), the decision makes a clear distinction between gray market goods and counterfeit goods. It is criminal to import counterfeit goods (except if you bring in 1 item and accompany the item at the port of entry), but infringement of copyright (gray market goods) is a civil matter (not criminal) and requires remedy in civil courts. There have been many law suits regarding copyright infringement (most notably in the entertainment industry), and anyone familiar with these cases knows that these are not criminal cases. In civil courts, the remedies (if awarded) are usually monetary, although the courts could impose an injunction to prevent further imports by a specific importer (but not any importer). It is unlikely that non-commercial quantities of gray market goods (not counterfeit) involved in a copyright infringement case can be legally destroyed by either US Customs or the USA copyright holder, unless so directed by a court of law in each and every specific instance. If Mamiya America Corp (MAC) where to destroy gray market goods (not counterfeit) sent to them for repair, it would likely be a criminal violation on the part of MAC (theft). Vigilantism is not permissible in copyright infringement or other civil cases. Obviously, MAC has no responsibility to repair gray market goods under warranty, and they can refuse to repair gray market goods even if a fee is charged, but they cannot destroy the goods. Given the recent world events, and the pending integration of the US Customs and the INS, it is extremely unlikely that US Customs will enforce non-criminal copyright infringement laws (where counterfeit goods are not involved) of non-commercial import quantities. When MAC wants to seek remedy for copyright infringement, it would have to file suit against each and every importer (the purchaser) and not Robert White (the retailer in the UK). It seems unlikely that MAC would bother to sue an individual for importing a single Mamiya outfit. It is even more unlikely that MAC would win such as case (especially in a jury trial). I would interested to see real (not hearsay) documentation (with jurisdiction and case number) on a recent case (after March 9, 1998) where MAC has prevailed against a gray market importer of Mamiya goods. ....

From: foto28@aol.comnospam (Foto28) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 19 Apr 2002 Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Just adding my vote of appreciation for Robert White as well. Friendly and personal service that's second to none, and exceptionally good prices too. (Not just Mamiya, but Fuji, Pentax, Hassy, Rollei, Gitzo, and many other brands are all priced much lower than US prices.) =============== Danny Burk www.dannyburk.com

From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 Imposition of a duty charge seems to be a hit or miss proposition. On the first two items I ordered from White I wasn't charged a duty, on the third one I was. I don't know exactly how the duty charge is computed but I paid about $30 for a $350 or so purchase. My credit card company also charged me about $10 for something but I forget what they called it. Shipping added another $50 or so, which I figured was about $30 more than I would have paid from a U.S. seller, so the extra cost from purchasing overseas was about $70 above the list price of the tripod, still a very good deal compared to U.S. prices

From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Buying Mamiya from Robert White Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 It was charged immediately by the delivery service - UPS I think it was. They wouldn't deliver leave the tripod until they received a check (made payable to the importer as I recall). "Bill Hilton" bhilton665@aol.comedy wrote... > >From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net > > >Imposition of a duty charge seems to be a hit or miss proposition. On the > >first two items I ordered from White I wasn't charged a duty, on the third > >one I was. ....

[Ed. note: thanks to John Tanner for sharing this note on cautions on buying radio control gear from overseas sources - frequency allocations may differ outside USA - so beware!] Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 From: John Tanner jtanner@rjfs.com To: rmonagha@post.smu.edu Subject: grey mkt sekonic light meters Have been told that the sekonic meters l 608 have different radio frequency channels than us models thus pocket wizard modules may not work here. This grey market meter is 485 on ebay but 699 plus 45 sales tax here locally!

From: bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 13 Apr 2002 Subject: buying Mamiya offshore -- Hong Kong or UK? I'd like to buy an expensive wide angle lens for my Mamiya rangefinder but the cost is ridiculous in the US ($2,600 at B&H;) and it's closer to $1,400 at Robert White (UK). I lost the link to Professor Bob's discussion re: buying offshore so can someone post it again. Any thoughts on whether there's less hassle in buying from White or from Hong Kong? Anyone have any bad experiences buying grey market from overseas? Thanks. Bill

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 From: Col Whittaker whittc@pcug.org.au Newsgroups: aus.photo Subject: Buying Overseas on Internet Has any body bought a camera from the US over the Internet? It would seem that the digital camera that I'm interested in buying in Australia are price fixed at $799. The US prices are around $250-$300 which at the current exchange rate is AU$462-$555 which, even with customs duty and GST is still cheaper AU$530-$560. Col Whittaker

From: "Jerry Meshulam" jerrym@sonic.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs charges (WAS - Buying Mamiya from Robert White) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 You can read all about duty rates right from the US Customs Service at: http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/impoexpo/impoexpo.htm You have to be willing to dig a little, but after a few minutes I was able to find the listing for importing cameras and lenses. The actual database of duty rates can be found at: http://dataweb.usitc.gov/scripts/tariff2002.asp The Harmonized Tariff System (HTS) code for cameras, such as general use medium format cameras, indicates there is 0% tariff for new cameras from the U.K. There is a fee of 2.3% for lenses. When I purchased lenses along with the camera that uses them, only the camera code was used and no duty was charged (so far). The shipment was held for a day while I faxed them the proper customs form. FedEx was incredibly helpful with this. It does sound like each person's experience might be different. Jerry Duncan Ross notmyreal@address.com wrote > If you use UPS you will be charged duty every time. This will be in addition to > their customs brokerage charge (the charge for filling out the paperwork). As > stated in this thread, they won't release the package until you pay. This is a > major inconvenience if no one is around to sign for the package (you have to go to > the nearest UPS facility). Fedex charges a bit less than UPS for brokerage and > the bill comes after delivery. The last thing I purchased from Robert White was > shipped "parcel force" , arrived in 5 days and had no duty. > > Bill Hilton wrote: > > > >From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net > > > > >It was charged immediately by the delivery service - UPS I think it was. > > >They wouldn't deliver leave the tripod until they received a check (made > > >payable to the importer as I recall). > > > > Thanks Brian, that's what I thought would occur if I were to be charged. Guess > > I dodged the bullet this time :) > > > > Bill ...

From: Duncan Ross notmyreal@address.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs charges (WAS - Buying Mamiya from Robert White) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 The different Fedex experiences are probably due to which entry point (hub) the shipment arrives at. FedEx has 2 subsidiaries that do customs clearance - they are merging them now. Jerry Meshulam wrote: > You can read all about duty rates right from the US Customs Service at: > http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/impoexpo/impoexpo.htm

From: "Mark Williams" westindiesfilms@worldnet.att.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Fuji 690 or Mamiya 7II? Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 One more real world case of importing Mamiya photo equipment. I just bought a complete Mamiya 7 II system in Hong Kong, that was shipped to me by UPS. Customs allows private individuals to import (apparently) one of each item in a camera system for their own personal use. In this case they do NOT confiscate the equipment. I spoke to Customs before buying the camera. That's what they told me, and the camera system arrived in Miami without incident. In case anyone is interested, these are the prices I paid: Mamiya 7 II body US$ 923.00 50mm lens 1,089.00 80mm lens 551.00 150mm lens 807.00 65mm lens 743.00 43mm lens 1,153.00 Close up kit 237.00 Mamiya Polarizer 153.00 Gitzo G1128 307.00 B&H; prices for the same items would be about $12,000. The best guy to deal with at Cameron is K.M. Chin. His phone # is 852-2369-1063. His fax is 852-2739-8575. Shipping the the States will be less than US$ 100 for an entire Mamiya 7 system. There is no American import duty on MF camera bodies; there is a 2.3 percent duty on lenses--but the lens ON the camera is considered part of the camera so incurs no duty. I'm paying about $80 in duty on the above items. ...

From: bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 07 May 2002 Subject: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White The other shoe dropped, though rather softly ... I posted a couple weeks back about buying a Mamiya lens from R. White in England and noted that I didn't have to pay any duty. Wrong ... Today I got a letter from Fed Ex stating they had paid the duty to speed things up at customs and that it would be charged to my Fed Ex account (if you don't have a Fed Ex account I'm not sure how they handle this). The duty charge was 3.9% (I think this varies according to the precise class of equipment) and based on a price slightly below what I actually paid. I also got dinged for another 1.5% extra charge from my credit card company for doing the currency conversion. I had never seen this type of charge before when traveling overseas and charging on various cards locally so maybe I just used the wrong credit card this time. So overall these two charges bumped the total bill up another $70 or so, plus probably an extra $30 for shipping over what it would cost had I ordered from B&H; ... Bottom line, if you're buying something that's outrageously more expensive in the USA (like Mamiya) you still save a great deal of $$$ (over $1,000 in my case) but if you're buying something where the price differential is much smaller the duty, higher shipping and possible credit card surcharge will nibble away at your 'savings'. Bill

From: Phil Stripling phil_stripling@cieux.zzn.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: 07 May 2002 bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) writes: ... > I also got dinged for another 1.5% extra charge from my credit card > company for doing the currency conversion. I had never seen this type of > charge before when traveling overseas and charging on various cards > locally so maybe I just used the wrong credit card this time. ... This is a recent addition to credit card fees. The Wall Street Journal had an article on it last month. Some banks are adding the charge, not VISA or MasterCard, and it was probably announced in one of those change in terms flier they stick in with the bills. -- Philip Stripling http://www.PhilipStripling.com/

From: "Tom" seaskate@attbi.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 "David Meiland" david@meiland.com wrote > bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) wrote: > > Ugh.... I've had at least one very disappointing experience buying on > eBay from a Canadian seller. The item ($1200 listed value) arrived > with about $65 due COD to 'UPS Customs House' or something like that. > The charge could have been avoided if the seller had filled out the > paperwork a bit less scrupulously... but I guess he did what I would > have done. In any case, I don't buy from outside the U.S. anymore, > fearing a repeat. > --- > David Meiland > Oakland, California > http://davidmeiland.com/ "The charge could have been avoided if the seller had filled out the paperwork a bit less scrupulously" You mean if the shipper had lied about the value? I owned a company that did a LOT of international shipping, specifically for US citizens traveling for business and/or pleasure to just about every place on the face of the earth. Invariably, we would get requests when shipping packages with merchandise in them to "just put $50.00" on the commercial invoice "so I won't have to pay duty". This was on packages sometimes containing merchandise worth thousands. We told them not only no, but HELL no. Two reasons: 1. If the package gets run over by a truck, the shipping company will pay, if the package is insured, the 'declared' value, NOT the 'insured' value. You cannot insure a $50.00 item for $5,000.00 and expect to get paid five grand if the package is lost, stolen or MUNGED. If that 'declared' $50.00 is for a brand new Hasselblad, then you are SOL. $50.00 is what you'll get for it. 2. Customs inspectors can, and most certainly do, check these packages. Some countries more thoroughly than others. Even so-called "Third World" customs agents can smell a rat when they see a grossly under-declared package come their way. They can/will then hold the package at the customs clearing agency until you pay whatever duty they decide to charge. Don't want to pay whatever they come up with? Fine with them, they will confiscate the merchandise. We had a customer that refused some marine (yachting) supplies we sent to him in Venezuela. He didn't think the customs duty was "fair". He told us to "get the package back" and have it returned to the US. Sorry. Once impounded by customs, you WILL pay or the items are confiscated. This idiot farted around and lost about $2500.00 worth of gear because he quibbled about a $150.00 customs bill, then he had the nerve to expect us to reimburse him for his stupidity. Sorry. Almost the EXACT same thing happened with a consignment of computer monitors we shipped to Pakistan, except that dummy wanted *us* to pay the duty because he "thought it was too high". Sorry. I could relate more stories of people trying to outsmart customs regulations and losing, but you are probably tired of reading this already. Tom

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White From: antispam@ftc.gov Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 > Today I got a letter from Fed Ex stating they had paid the duty to speed things > up at customs and that it would be charged to my Fed Ex account (if you don't > have a Fed Ex account I'm not sure how they handle this). The duty charge was > 3.9% (I think this varies according to the precise class of equipment) and > based on a price slightly below what I actually paid. I've done eBay transaction withthe UK, Russia, Ukranine, and others and NEVER been charged duty. Bur I never used FED EX either, but the post office. My parcels from Ukraine and Lithuania get here in 3 days.... John

From: jhicks31@bellsouth.net (John Hicks) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 I vaguely recall something about a camera imported for personal use being duty-free, while an "accessory" such as a lens was charged duty. I bought a lens from Robert White a year or so ago and was told up front that I'd most likely have to pay duty on it; they guess $60 and sure enough, it was about $60. Saved about $500 though. --- John Hicks

From: Bogdan Karasek bkarasek@videotron.ca Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 Hi, If I may make a minor correction. There is no duty on used cameras bought in the US and mailed to Canada. This is a provision of the Free Trade Agreement. What you are paying are the taxes on the camera that are due based on the declared value on the green sticker. Which is why the person in Canada asked you to check it off as a gift on the green customs slip. This way, taxes aren't charged. Using Fed EX or UPS, they charge you a brokerage fee even if there isn't any duty to be paid, which is why most private individuals avoid them like the plague. Regards, Bogdan

From: "Mike" nedsnake@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 I'll add another correction. Even with all the proper paperwork attached to the outside of the package, repairs shipped from my shop back to my Canadian customers would some times be hit with import duty. This is not suppose to be the case. The only charge to my customer is suppose to be the VAT on the invoiced amount not import duty on the insured value. Mike www.mfcrepair.com

From: Jeff four_season_photo@yahoo.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 I generally stick to Air Parcel Post shipments from overseas because it can be lots cheaper and can bypass hassles and fees that you'll get stung with if you ship via a private carrier such as UPS or FedEx. If in doubt, have it sent as a registered parcel.

from contax mailing list: From: "Kaisern Chen" kconeverest@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [Contax] Zeiss 300/2.8 for Hassy Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 Dear Mehedad, I paid much less! The lens is brand new, with warranty from the authorized Hasselblad dealer and I negotiate it for baht 710,000 and the exchange rate is 43.6 baht to a US the date I purchase. The lens serial number is 9300078, comes with two certificate, one is the official relase serial number which says the lens is of a limited edition of totaling 350 units ( I assumed mine is nr. 78 ) and the inspection report singed by five positions and the date of inspection is 30.5.2001. The lens is not particular large, about average for 300mm lens ( as compare to Leica's 280/2.8, AF-S Nikkor 300/2.8 and weights 3.8 kgs, in fact it looks similar size than the usual 300/2.8 lens for 135 camera except slightly fatter body but not by much. The lens comes with a tele-converter, 1.7X, of identical serial number as well as a PL with a thumb wheel outside so you can operate when the PL is in the slot. Brgds/Kaisern -----Original Message----- From: Mehrdad Sadat [mailto:m.sadat@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 To: kaisern@gbi.co.th Subject: FW: [Contax] Zeiss 300/2.8 for Hassy Kaisern, how much would this lens cost in far east (where did you get it) in us B&H; is selling it for 20.5 k. I have good hk contacts, i have also looked at this lens but the size scares me!! Regards, Mehrdad

From contax mailing list: From: "Kaisern Chen" kconeverest@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [Contax] Zeiss 300/2.8 for Hassy Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 Its finish is excellent, not nearly as large as I thought so it is good as you won't cause much attention. I am leaving to Shanghai this evening again so I would have to leave it back home, sorry me. Anyway, I just realized from the certificate that the lens is limited 350 pcs only, mine is 9300078, the inspection certificate was dated 30.05.2001, assuming mine is nr.78, don't know how much was produced after that and don't know if the production has stopped as reached the 350 mark. Brgds/Kaisern

From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 The duty seems to be a hit or miss proposition. I've purchased three items from Robert White. On the first two I paid no duty, on the third I did. ....

From: nyphotoboy@aol.com (NYphotoboy) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Date: 08 May 2002 Subject: Re: Hong Kong Purchase Hi Roger, I've purchased medium format gear through Tin Cheung Camera in HK several times, but through mail order. if you check out this site: http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.html it'll give you some rec's for places to shop while you're there. Discounts are incredible for medium format gear, but be aware that they're not THAT significant for most 35mm equipment. But it doesn't hurt to check them out. Happy shopping! Kerry

From: demicsu@hotmail.com (yoyobear) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Hong Kong Purchase Date: 8 May 2002 There are two very reputable camera equipment stores in HK. Both owned by the same owner. The addresses are as follows: Wing shing Photo Wupplies Co. 57 sai Yeung Choi street, Kowloon, Tel: 2396 6886 Man Shing Photo Supplies Co. 106 Tung Choi stret, Kowloon, Tel: 2396 2996 Contax T3 is sold with warranty in these shops for HK$4100 (US$525) for the golden body version and HK$4500 (US$577) for the black body version. Enjoy your shopping in HK. Roger leica35@yahoo.com wrote... > I'll be traveling to Hong Kong in about a month. While I'm really not > in the market for anything, I could get interested in a Contax T3. Any > guides or guidelines into finding camera dealers in the City. This is > a first trip. Usually I find that major US suppliers are world wide > competitive, however HK is sort of an urban legend and I'd hate to > just go and come and find that I'd really passed on a good > opportunity. > > Actually I'd rather be taking pictures, than shopping. Still... > > Regards, > Roger

Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm From: Andrew Koenig ark@research.att.com Subject: Re: Buying USA Lenses, but not filling out warranty card Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 Bryan> My last two lenses that I bought were "USA" lenses (not grey Bryan> market) from B&H.; However, I haven't filled out the warranty Bryan> cards and mailed them. It's been about 1.5 years later, and I Bryan> realize that I effectively reduced that lens as a "grey/import" Bryan> lens. Is this true? Bryan> Can I still send in my warranty cards or not? There are two separate questions here. The first one is the question of warranty. Regardless of what manufacturers may tell you, you do not need to do anything in order to validate a warranty. All you need to do if an item needs service is send it back to the manufacturer along with proof that it was purchased under conditions that make the warranty valid, which are typically that it be within a given period of time, that you bought from an authorized dealer, and often (but not always) that you were the original purchaser. Some manufacturers are finding clever ways to circumvent part of this requirement. For example, they will offer a warranty for a given period of time (say, one year) and then, in exchange for your sending them a card with various personal information and giving them permission to use that information for their own purposes, offering to extend the period during which they will repair the item without charge (say, to five years). As far as I can figure out, the only thing questionable about this practice is using the term ``warranty'' to refer to it. It's not a warranty: It's an offer of future service, if needed, in exchange for information. You don't have to give them the information, and they don't have to offer the service, but if you're both amenable, then there's a deal. Typically, such an offer is valid only for a stipulated period of time. If you take them up on the offer after that, it's up to them whether they choose to honor it. I sugges you ask them. -- Andrew Koenig, ark@research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark

Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 From: Simon Lamb simon@sclamb.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong David A bit extra! PME45 Prism: Teamwork: o1,016 Import: o655 (o800 if import duties payable) 50mm f/4: Teamwork: o1,965 Import: o1,200 (o1,465 if import duties payable) I just saved a minimum of o700 and a maximum of o1,126! Teamwork are not doing anyone any favours, the prices are a rip off just like most goods in the UK. Not really their fault, but I for one am not waving goodbye to a o700+ saving for 'service'. As for US purchasers from Robert White, Teamwork etc. they don't pay the VAT so the prices probably do look good. Simon "drphoto" drphoto@onetel.net.uk wrote: > teamwork are a reliable source of all pro photo gear, i shop there regularly > and am always pleased with their professional approach and manner. if you > can get it cheaper elsewhere ..i dont bother looking because they deserve a > bit extra for the quality of the service and the back and advice they can > offer. > David. ....

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 From: Darrell Jennings darrell_jennings@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong The thing to keep in mind if you are ordering from outside the E.U. countries is that you do not pay the VAT (the vendor doesn't charge it). Unlike the U.S., the E.U. also gives you a break if you walk in off the street and are buying the product and then leaving the E.U. with it when you depart. You still pay the vendor the VAT, but the vendor gives you a form that allows you to claim a refund of the VAT when you are departing at the airport to exit the E.U. (the refund is typically to your credit card and takes a month or so to process). ....

From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 12 May 2002 Subject: Re: Hassy Equipment from Hong Kong I am looking for any type of feedback on following 2 vendors out of Hong Kong. Before I transact Hassy equipment from Hong Kong. First one has a call sign of "ETEFORE" on Ebay, with a website hksupplies.com. Second one has a call sign of "AMHLEE" on Ebay, with a website accphoto.com. A friend of mine has had extremely good luck with ETEFORE,--and I have had good luck with AMHLEE (Anthony Lee). Professionally packed and shipped. Although I spent just over $1000 on each purchase (two separate transactions) they were both 'passed free' by US Customs. Packing was first rate. Timely mails, too. Either of these guys is very low risk. If you don't feel like you got what was promised,--get in touch with them. These guys are straight shooters. Dan Lindsay Santa Barbara

From: edgy01@aol.com (EDGY01) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 12 May 2002 Subject: Re: Hassy Equipment from Hong Kong ....and, BTW, Anthony uses SpeedPost for deliveries. Quite efficient. see link: http://www.hongkongpost.com/speedpost dan

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 From: Charlie Goodwin cgoodwin@conknet.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Simon, Perhaps you are correct. I only know the prices I saw and my own limited experience a few months ago. I don't know the whole photo market in the UK or for the US for that matter. I did save something on the rough order of $250 on the purchase of what would have cost me about $585.00 in the US. I bought a new Sinar Wide Angle Bellows II, ultra thin - and like watches - thin = expensive - and new Sinar 11cm and 25cm hex accessory rods. I bought from Teamwork Photographic Ltd, 41-42 Foley Street, London, W1W UK. I spent about $325 US for the whole shebang. I can't be more precise because the deal was in pounds and several months have passed, and I don't know what the exact conversion factor was on the day my card got billed...but...for comparison, just the bellows by itself is priced at $534.95 at B&H.; The other items add about $ 50ish to the total. For anyone checking comparitive pricing, the WA Bellows II is not the usual wide angle bellows; it's a more specialized part, and rather more costly that the normal WA bellows. So, I paid about $ 325 for items costing something about $ 585 domestically. The $325 included shipping from the UK too. If anyone wants to get exact numbers, I could dig out my old credit card bill, and identify the exact billing I paid in USD. I believe I saved slightly more than 40%...enough to make me very attentive. My suspicion is that if I knew British retailers better I might have found yet lower prices. However at these prices, and with Teamwork's good service, I was very pleased. Also, I don't want to hold B&H; up in any kind of negative light, because I happily buy from them on fairly frequent occasion...They are an excellent firm and just happen to be well known and easy for anyone to pricecheck. Perhaps Teamwork's prices are a fluke, but I am a little skeptical of that hypothesis, since they were not the only firm that appeared to be pricing attractively compared to the US at the time I made that purchase. Check out http://www.teamworkphoto.co.uk I might add that not all companiesabout which I sought prices seemed to be gouging the US consumer. The Pentax 6x7 seemed to be priced much more equally here vs overseas. I should note that this is a big subject, and, while the results I got from my web searches clearly told me that I should always comparison shop here and overseas, my researches are far from definitive. I hope others will share their experiences purchasing worldwide. Best would be if people could say which brand is priced best at what shop,. Didn't I read in this group that people were getting good pricing at ? Cayman camera ? Is it fair to call out for people's experiences at trying to find the best pricing and service worldwide? I would be very interested to know which shops have good prices AND good service. So, is there somewhere in the US I could have matched or bettered to price I paid? Charlie > I disagree. US prices are way below UK prices. > > Simon > Charlie Goodwin at cgoodwin@conknet.com wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > I need to vent on USA pricing.... > > > > Some of the various camera makers who outright own and control their USA > > importers (and own is the operative word here, if I get the scam), set US > > pricing very much higher than in the rest of the world. > > > > I recently bought some Sinar equipment new from a British firm for something > > like !!!!! HALF !!! the US price. I forget the exact amount, but the saving > > was stunningly large. > > > > It is NOT the US retailer's fault. If they buy from say Sinar or > > Mamiya...who control US importing rigidly, they are stuck with buying at far > > more than camera retailers in , say, Britain or Hong Kong, have to pay. > > > > Result? We pay more too. > > > > It's not fair to the retailers. It's not fair to us. > > > > Check out the prices worldwide on Sinar, Mamiya, Hassy... We get hit with > > the highest prices anywhere. Sure Americans like me are incredibly > > lucky...a poor American being a rich person by the context of much of the > > world at large, but when the added cost just goes into the pockets of a camera > > company????? > > > > After seeing the price differential, and having the savings proven to me, and > > dealing by the way with a very pleasant shopping experience, I'm afraid I will > > be doing more overseas shopping. > > > > For me the USA warranty isn't worth the price differential. I will gladly > > sacrifice with the generally super quality of the equipment I have purchased. > > Your milage may vary.... > > Sorry for blathering at length ...I get all worked up over this one... > > Thanks, > > Charlie > >> Is the price difference bw/ Hong-Kong & US camera goods > >> only a tax issue ? > >> -- > >> Charles M,gnin > >> http://www.theblueplanet.org

From contax mailing list: Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 Subject: Re: [Contax] Purchasing in Hong Kong From: Simon Lamb simon@sclamb.com Don at see3d@pacbell.net wrote: >> As for your reference, the most recent price for the > Contax 645 kit(body, 80/F2 and 120/220 film magazine)from > Tin Cheung was ~$19000-$20000 HKD(=~$2560US, > $1USD=$7.8HKD). > > Respectfully, in the US, you can purchase a grey market 645 > kit with a third party warranty > for about $2900. > > Personally, my choice would be to buy it from B&H.; Full US > warranty. Not grey market. I .... > Blah, blah.....I got pretty wound up, didn't I? My point is > that relationships are important in this > business. Consider what that those few extra dollars are > buying you. > > Don > Don I agree for those of you in the US. In the UK we get hammered on pricing and I can save 50% OR MORE ORDERING FROM HK. Your economics just don't apply to the UK market I am afraid. I am very friendly with a number of dealers and company reps and I have spent enough to justify being on good terms. But I just cannot continue to pay the enormously high prices any more. The Contax warranty is international, so it does not matter where you buy it from, it is honoured around the world. Simon

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 From: Simon Lamb simon@sclamb.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong > Eduard Crombie wrote: > > > Hi Q.G., > > > > I just come back from my weekly consultation of the Contax Mailing list > > archives and the same question has been put there recently. > > Response from a few HK residents has influenced (changed) my opinion a > > little since this morning. > > I can't post content from another mailing list, but if you have problems > > finding them, email me. > > Thanks for the info. And for the offer (i'll try and have a look in myself > first). > > But i'm a bit baffled; what is happening all of the sudden? > Buying from HK Supplies appears to be discussed right now right here in the > HUG, on the Contax Mailing List, on Photo.net, and in the > rec.photo.equipment.medium-format newsgroup. Is this just a co is it part of a marketing offensive? Or what? I started some of this as I am fed up with being ripped off in the UK with equipment prices. I find in most cases that the cost of an item in dollars is translated one for one to the UK pounds price (i.e. $2,995 is o2,995) whereas the conversion rate should be roughly 1.5 dollars to the pound. I have found that many HK suppliers are 50% cheaper than buying in the UK, which when considering a o6,900 purchase is massively significant. No supplier in the UK would offer a Contax 645 kit, 45 f/2.8 and 120 MP for o3,900, but just about every supplier in HK does, and one was o3,610. I just reached the time when enough is enough and I will not pay rip off charges any more. Sorry to take up bandwidth, but the responses have been informative and I now have some contacts that appear to be trustworthy and will save me a fortune. Simon

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 From: Charlie Goodwin cgoodwin@conknet.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Simon, Glad you mentioned HK! I'll start looking at HK. If you are saving money there, I'll save even more, since I'm running into stratospheric pricing in the US. And buying in the UK has made for big savings for me....HK will be even better. Charlie

From contax mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: Simon Lamb simon@sclamb.com Subject: [Contax] Purchasing in Hong Kong I have been communicating via email with Poon at HK Supplies in Hong Kong. Poon says they are the biggest camera dealer there. He seems to have excellent prices and for a Contax 645 kit with 120MP and 45 f/2.8 he is o3,000 cheaper than the cost of that equipment new in the UK (his cost o3,900, UK cost o6,900). Does anyone have experience of buying from either Poon (HK Supplies) or from Hong Kong in general, especially buying from the UK. With those sort of savings the deal looks very good, just want to make sure I am not going to get ripped off. Thanks. Simon

From contax mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: "Zorro s" zoro878@nettaxi.com Subject: Re: [Contax] Purchasing in Hong Kong [demime could not interpret encoding binary - treating as plain text] To be frank, as a chinese amateur photographer in HK, I have never heard of a dealer called HK supplies. Even if it really exists, it can't be the largest camera dealer here in HK(the name "HK Supplies" just sounds suspicious to me, unlike the old days companies/dealers here seldom call themself "HK.....") Of course I maybe wrong or I am just plain ignorant. But I strongly suspect that Mr. Poon is just an individual who tries to make money by selling camera equipment oversea through eBay. (As a duty-free port, we can buy cameras in HK at a much lower price than say US)So his cameras maybe sort of like "bought-to-order". You make your order through the eBay and then he buy the equipment from one of the shops here for you. Having said that you may still get what you want at a very attractive price and the cameras you get from Poon may still be in a perfect, brand-new condition. But as i have postulated, if there doesn't exist a company called "HK supplies", you are really taking risk by buying from an questionable person who has claimed to be the owner/member of staff of an non-existing company. If you still want to buy the 645 at a reasonable price from a HK dealer. You'd better buy it directly from them. I would like to recommend Tin Cheung to you. It is one of the few honest dealers of high-end camera stuff here and it has been running for years. As I can remember, someone from your country has posted their pleasant experience buying cameras from them on www.photo.net. (You can go to the discussion forum there and search for "tin cheung") Personally I, and many of the local photographers have bought lens and cameras there. As for your reference, the most recent price for the Contax 645 kit(body, 80/F2 and 120/220 film magazine)from Tin Cheung was ~$19000-$20000 HKD(=~$2560US, $1USD=$7.8HKD). They have their own website, though i think it is still under construction. http://www.tincheungcamera.com.hk/ Of course I can't guarantee you wouldn;t be ripped off by buying camera from tin cheung and I must say I am not in any way in connection with them. From Pot Kick

From contax mailing list: From: "Wing S. Yu" fox99@myrealbox.com Subject: Re: [Contax] Purchasing in Hong Kong Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 TinCheung is a long time Contax dealer in HK but many times the "new" items they are selling either opened and "tested" by the shop or wraped in plastic "demo units". Anyway, TinCheung is not the biggest Contax reseller in HK, instead a pair of sister shops called ManShing and WingShing have been selling more authorized Contax in the past few years. Contax has gone through huge changes in HK in the past few years. First the distributorship changed with lower dealer prices. Then the Contax gears were moving in huge volume by the mentioned two shops. For awhile, the authorized Contax prices are lower than gray marketed Contax in HK. I have shopped my Contax gears from these two shops in the last few years and all items are new in unopened boxes. They have no need to resell "demo units" like other shops since they have large inventories. Wing S. Yu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zorro s" zoro878@nettaxi.com To: contax@photo.cis.to Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 Subject: Re: [Contax] Purchasing in Hong Kong > http://www.tincheungcamera.com.hk/

From contax mailing list: From: "Mehrdad Sadat" m.sadat@verizon.net Subject: RE: [Contax] Purchasing in Hong Kong Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 I do, poon is my major supplier for my leica stuff. I just checked his ebay auctions, he is selling the 17-35 for under 1600 usd where is in us it is 2.2 to 2.4 usd. a big difference Regards, Mehrdad ...

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 From: "Q.G. de Bakker" qnu@worldonline.nl Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Simon Lamb wrote: > I have been communicating via email with Poon at HK Supplies in Hong Kong. > Poon says they are the biggest camera dealer there. He seems to have > excellent prices for Hasselblad equipment. I have just had a look at http://www.hksupplies.com (is that the right URL for Poon?) and all he seems to have on offer there were Leica M cameras and lenses. Is there another URL where we can see what Hasselblad equipment he has on offer for what prices? Or is he selling Hasselblad via eBay only?

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 From: john swanson swansonjw@earthlink.net Subject: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong I purchased a Hassy 501cm with the 80mm CFI lens from Poon at HongKon Supplies via eBay. I received it quickly, it was new and completely undamaged, I got a 1-year warranty card which Hassy US honored. I was fully please with Poon and this purchase, as I saved about $700 buying it thru Poon.

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 From: Malcolm & Sylvia Brickwood m_s.brickwood@attbi.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Simon It depends what you are buying. I live in the US and saved approaching US $1,000 buy purchasing my Flexbody from http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ and that was after I paid shipping plus US customs. Malcolm Simon Lamb wrote: > I diasgree. US prices are way below UK prices.

From: "Q.G. de Bakker" qnu@worldonline.nl Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Customs got me .. paying duty on Mamiya purchase from Robert White Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 John Halliwell wrote: > Before I realised US cards had introduced this, my guess was the demise > of most of the European currencies now the Euro is up and running. The > banks have lost most of the inter-European currency exchange business [...] Don't count on it. Take my bank as an for instance: transferring money to bankaccounts with other banks in other EU countries was as easy as doing so domestically. Yes, they charged an international handling fee, as well as provision on curency exchange. And now the Euro has come, they no longer can pretend that there are that many costs involved in international money transfers within the Euro region. No fear. My bank just invented a "special" transfer system, needing "special" handling, using "special" transfer slips and and envelopes (available on special order only, and then only 4 at a time), processing it all in a "special" office, by (no doubt) very "special" people indeed. And all comes with a "special" fee too. So despite all promises to the contrary, transferring money even within the Euro region has become more expensive (and more profitable for my bank at least) than it ever was before.

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: Steve Baker sbaker04@midsouth.rr.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong While I've not yet purchased a hassy from Poon, I probably will when my budget allows. His Ebay feedback profile is good. 2 complaints and 273 praises the last six months. The complaints were from new Ebay users who either didn't pay (so why complain?) after figuring out it was not a USA product (good grief!) and the other complaint was about dust in a new Leica lens which Poon offered to replace. Seems that Hong Kong is a good place to buy Hassy equipment. The price difference for USA products and warranties are too significant to not consider international equipment. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Lamb" simon@sclamb.com Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 Subject: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong > I have been communicating via email with Poon at HK Supplies in Hong Kong. > Poon says they are the biggest camera dealer there. He seems to have > excellent prices for Hasselblad equipment. > > Does anyone have experience of buying from either Poon (HK Supplies) or > from Hong Kong in general, especially buying from the UK. With those sort > of savings the deal looks very good, just want to make sure I am not going > to get ripped off. > > Thanks. > > Simon

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: Christopher Williams LeicaChris@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Poon's a great seller, and very fast to ship. I've purchased some Leica gear from him before and the packages have always arrived within 4 days from Hong Kong. Faster than the USPS sometimes. Chris Williams New Orleans

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: Biogon44@aol.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong I purchased a brand-new 80mm f2.8 Carl Zeiss Planar CFE lens with lens hood from Anthony Lee in Hong Kong for less than 50% than it would have cost me to buy at the lowest price in the US. He lists his offerings on eBay; this is where I found out about his items for sale. I paid by Paypal and received my goods by air just four days after he received my payment. I was completely satisfied with this purchase and recommend him highly.

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: Biogon44@aol.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong I saved about $1000.00 with my Zeiss lens purchase by buying from HK instead of the USA. I don't think that this represents only a tax difference!

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: "Leslie A. Nepveu" lanepveu@attbi.com Subject: RE: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Two examples of Poon's prices on EBay are (US Dollars) 30mm f 3.5 CFI lens new in box $3,750.00 and 350mm 5.6 Superachromat also new in box $4,860.00 ...

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 From: Charlie Goodwin cgoodwin@conknet.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Purchasing from Hong Kong Hello All, I need to vent on USA pricing.... Some of the various camera makers who outright own and control their USA importers (and own is the operative word here, if I get the scam), set US pricing very much higher than in the rest of the world. I recently bought some Sinar equipment new from a British firm for something like !!!!! HALF !!! the US price. I forget the exact amount, but the saving was stunningly large. It is NOT the US retailer's fault. If they buy from say Sinar or Mamiya...who control US importing rigidly, they are stuck with buying at far more than camera retailers in , say, Britain or Hong Kong, have to pay. Result? We pay more too. It's not fair to the retailers. It's not fair to us. Check out the prices worldwide on Sinar, Mamiya, Hassy... We get hit with the highest prices anywhere. Sure Americans like me are incredibly lucky...a poor American being a rich person by the context of much of the world at large, but when the added cost just goes into the pockets of a camera company????? After seeing the price differential, and having the savings proven to me, and dealing by the way with a very pleasant shopping experience, I'm afraid I will be doing more overseas shopping. For me the USA warranty isn't worth the price differential. I will gladly sacrifice with the generally super quality of the equipment I have purchased. Your milage may vary.... Sorry for blathering at length ...I get all worked up over this one.... Thanks, Charlie > Is the price difference bw/ Hong-Kong & US camera goods > only a tax issue ? > -- > -- > Charles M,gnin > http://www.theblueplanet.org

From nikon mailing list: From: Ung Ruey Loon eng81468@nus.edu.sg Subject: RE: [Nikon] Shop(s) in Singapore Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 NO NO NO !!! avoid Far East and Lucky Plaza, those places are for "tourist" and some shops there have bad reps, bait and switch, bad service, intimidation comes to mind. go to City hall and look for Peninsula Plaza and the Adelphi. They are only 2 mins walk from CITY HALL MRT Station. (underground). OK, but then I don't trust all the shops there too, but here is a list that should be ok Cathay Photo (biggest in singapore) The Camera Workshop Alex Photo Ron's Camera rgs

From: "R.W. Behan" rwbehan@rockisland.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Mamiya RB,RZ or Rolleiflex 6xxx series Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 Hi, Peter, I've recently acquired a used RB67 and find it essentially perfect for me: a simple, strong, easy to use, high quality camera, and I've been a dedicated amateur photographer for more than 50 years. All mechanical, no "auto" anything, and it will probably do me for another 50. It's a matter of personal preference, of course, but I was pleased to find such a simple, well made instrument was still in production. I will second the suggestion made by R.C. Johns: Mamiya products in the US are priced about 50% higher than anywhere else in the world, so I bought my camera from Robert White in the U.K. Here's the URL: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ Their service was prompt, courteous, and competent. My RB67, with 90mm K/L lens, 120 back, and waist level finder came to about $1250. Check that against prices on eBay and you'll run to the UK for your purchase. Good luck, Dick Behan ...

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 From: "Samuel L. Stern" sstern@mplslaw.com Subject: [HUG] Gray Market Warranty I purchased my 503CW from Hong Kong (Etore) via e-Bay in 2000. I had a problem with film spacing in the A-12 back. I took it into my local repair shop (Marquette Camera Repair, Minneapolis). The international warranty was honored without a problem. As a long time Nikon user, I was well aware of the problems with buying gray market equipment but took a chance and was very happy with my Hasselblad warranty experience. SLS -- Sam Stern Minnetonka, MN 55345

Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 From: Steve Baker sbaker04@midsouth.rr.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: [HUG] Where to buy Hasselblad? Check Ebay and do a search for 501CM. You will find at least 2 Hong Kong sellers there, both of which have good reputations. I've also seen some USA sellers of new international equipment. I think a new 501CM kit sells for under $2000 but also check out the 503CW if you need TTL. It's under $2500 for the kit. --Steve ...

From: "David J. Littleboy" davidjl@gol.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Beware of the man who trashes Blads and praises Kievs. Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 "Daniel Britton" dbritton@hotmail.com wrote: > Speaking of 645AF, anyone see the deal Calumet was offering recently? Buy a > Leaf C-Most digital back for regular price (9500.00), and get a free Mamiya > 645AF kit with lens. Thats about 3800.00 in the US, Ouch. The 645AF'll set you back 250,000 Yen (US$2100) in Tokyo if you deal with online discounters at the back of the camera rags. (More like $2500 at Yodobashi, but that gets you a $250 in-store credit as well.) David J. Littleboy Tokyo, Japan

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 From: Darrell Jennings darrell_jennings@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [HUG] Where to buy Hasselblad? Buying from offshore will not provide a "USA" warranty for most camera companies. I would be surprised it Hasselblad is an exception. Also, you don't qualify for any USA rebates or special "deals". However "grey market" cameras normally come with an international warranty of some kind. I suggest you check two sources. 1. Ask the seller about the warranty. 2. Call Hasselblad USA and find out their policy on the particular situation you are considering. Keep in mind that "grey market" status will apply to cameras you bring in from Hong Kong, the U.K., etc. but also applies to some cameras sold through U.S. dealers that import them bypassing V.H.USA. This isn't a big deal if you are aware of what you are getting and paying for. Very few new cameras need warranty service, and if you are saving $1,000 or more, it would pay for a LOT of repair work should any need to be done outside of warranty and clearly is worth the relatively minor risk. Obviously you can save a lot on used cameras as well. I've purchased Hasselblad gear on eBay with good luck, also purchased from other members of HUG (a great option because someone that cares enough to be on this list probably has taken care of their gear). I would beware of eBay sellers with little or no feedback, particularly when they are off shore. I recently considered bidding on a VERY low priced 30mm Distagon (price at the time was well under $2000). However it was a dealer with no feedback, that had recently changed his name, located in Europe, demanding a pure cash transaction (no PayPal, credit cards, etc.). I may have missed out on a bargain, but in a circumstance like that you have no recourse other than to complain to eBay if the equipment doesn't show up or isn't as described. I passed... Good luck. I second the comments of others that a 500C/M is a great option vs. the 501C/M if you want to save money. There is less difference between the 500 and 501 than say an M3 vs. M4 Leica. I still use my 500C/M regularly and it is built like a "tank"...good inexpensive option. ...

From: "Brian Ellis" bellis60@earthlink.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: gitzo and warranty Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 First, I'd check Robert White's prices. If they're within a few dollars of the Hong Kong price I'd buy from Robert White because they're a known quantity with an excellent reputation. It hasn't bothered me to buy Gitzo tripods without a warranty when the price is less than 2/3 of the B&H; price (which was the case with my 1320 bought from Robert White a few months ago). There isn't a whole lot that can go wrong with a tripod that would be covered by the warranty anyhow and for that kind of price difference I was willing to take the chance. "davidb" dvdbrm@yahoo.com wrote... > there are several people from hong kong selling gitzo tripods on ebay > for very reasonable prices. for example: gitzo G1228 CF tripod for > $405 including shipping. if i were to buy the same model from B&H; it > would cost $505 with shipping. the difference is, i will not get a > warranty card if i buy it from the guys in hong kong. so, what should > i do?

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 From: Peter Caplow pcaplow@prodigy.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Looking for modern MF with 6x6 format JF, you can actually get the 6001 for the price you quoted, but not from B&H; and without the US warranty. AMHLEE in Hong Kong has the same kit for sale, brand new in box, on Ebay right now for $1,300 and his feedback is very good. I assume that it comes with a valid international warranty but I would check ahead of time to make sure. From what I've read, having to send the camera to Germany for repairs isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why you'd want to buy the 6001 though. For the $1,900 that you were prepared to spend at B&H;, AMHLEE would probably sell you a new 6008 Integral (EL lens) and you'd have the ambient light metering that was left out of the 6001 plus all the other features of Rollei's top of the line model. IMHO, leaving out the ambient metering in an all electronic, motor driven, battery dependent camera like the 6008/6001 was a really dumb idea. Apparently, it didn't do well in the marketplace, either. Rollei was giving away free 6001 bodies if you bought one of their other models. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item;=1371259087 Peter Caplow Joe Foto wrote: > I was mistaken on the price, but that's still a great price on a > Rollei MF kit. That's the one I'm getting for the Mrs. Once you shoot > with Zeiss glass, you'll never go back to anything else. > > JF > Peter Caplow pcaplow@prodigy.net wrote > > I just tried to "check it out" at the B&H; site as you suggested. Their cheapest complete Rollei kit is a "6001 > > Professional Medium Format SLR Camera Kit with 80mm f/2.8 EL Lens, 120 Film Back and Folding Waist Level > > Viewfinder" B&H;# RO6001K, for $1,899.99. > > > > Peter Caplow

From: lesaus@aol.comnospam (Ed Saus) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 11 Aug 2002 Subject: Re: gitzo and warranty >there are several people from hong kong selling gitzo tripods on ebay >for very reasonable prices. for example: gitzo G1228 CF tripod for >$405 including shipping. if i were to buy the same model from B&H; it >would cost $505 with shipping. the difference is, i will not get a >warranty card if i buy it from the guys in hong kong. so, what should >i do? >thanks, >david The Gitzo warranty is probably worthless, anyhow, so go for the cheaper price. The bubble level popped out of my 1340 and Bogen/Gitzo refuses to respond to my inquiries for a replacement part. A friend had a problem with his 1340 and they won't respond to him either. I am less than happy with Gitzo and may look elsewhere when the need for a new tripod comes. Ed

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 From: Biogon44@aol.com Subject: [HUG] buying Hasselblad overseas I was very pleased with the prices and service of Anthony Lee of Hong Kong when I recently purchased both Hasselblad and Voigtlander items. It took only 2-3 days to get a delivery from HK to California! He can be reached at info@accphoto.com

From: "Ron Andrews" randrew1@rochester.rr.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc Subject: Re: can tourist avoid sales tax in NY camera stores? Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 "peter" nospam222@yayayahoo.com wrote... > If I'm from out of state or out of country, can I avoid paying sales tax > when buying cameras in new york city? > > In Japan, if you show your US passport, many large stores will not charge > you sales tax when the purchase is significant (around US$100 in one > particular store I visited). > If you have the items shipped to your home you can avoid the sales tax, but you have to pay shipping. There used to be some stores that would ship part of an order (like a UV filter) and write up the whole order as mail order and not charge sales tax. I'm not sure if this still happens. The legality is questionable. The safest bet is to pay the tax or pay the shipping. Some states (like New York) claim the right to collect sales tax on any purchase by a NY resident brought into the state. They don't try to collect on anything other than automobiles and furniture, but the state claims that the tax is owed regardless of whether they try to collect it.

From: "Robert" Robert@noscam.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Which Camera To Buy? Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 ... I'm Canon EOS user. I own a few L series professional lenses which are superior quality very sharp and inexpensive if you compare to Leica prices. Once I was curious what the camera is Chinese make "Seagull" it costs couple of hundreds dollars so I bought it and was very surprise that picture quality, shadow details (bigger size of film) are better than (or close to) Canons. Right now my first Camera is Bronica 645 which blows Leica and Canon in every way. It is very good quality camera and inexpensive if You buy it in UK at http://www.jessop.co.uk/ (half US price). I really recommend this camera. Used lenses You can buy for a few hundred dollars.

From rollei mailing list: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 From: rurmonas@senet.com.au Subject: Re: [Rollei] Vacation Film Is Taxable? Quoting "Kevin D. Ramsey" kevin.ramsey@verizon.net: > Hello All: > I took my 6008 to London this summer and, based on the recommendations here > and on various Web sites, decided to minimize the risk that my film would > be x-rayed and shipped it in lead bags to and from my home in the U.S. and > my hotel in London. Last week I received an invoice from Fedex for the > taxes and tariffs for sending the film to the U.K. When I called and > pleaded "personal use" I was told "All items entering the U.K. are taxable, > pleaded "personal use" I was told "All items entering the U.K. are taxable, > regardless of use." > > Anybody heard of this before? I can't believe this is true. If so, > shouldn't I be paying tax on my camera, clothes, and luggage as well (he > said, only somewhat joking). Any ideas on how to fight this? They're asking > for 50% of the value of the film. The collection agency started calling > yesterday, so I know time is running out before I have to acquiesce and pay > them their eighty dollars. Kevin, 't know the exact detail for the UK, but my undestanding of the situation is that yes you will pay duties / taxes. If you had taken the film with you (in you hand luggage) and the quantity of film was not large then "personal use" would have been applicable. However by fedexing it you are then "importing" it into the UK. To avoid such things you would have needed the appropriate paperwork to show that you would be taking it out of the country again. However this must be arranged beforehand. You should also remember that Fedex will have payed the money on your behalf, and so you are required to re-imburse them. Richard --- Richard Urmonas rurmonas@senet.com.au

[Ed. note: a handy reminder to check all fees before mailing items overseas - esp. Fedex!] from rollei mailing list: Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 From: Nathan Wajsman wajsman@webshuttle.ch Subject: Re: [Rollei] Vacation Film Is Taxable? Kevin, In principle it is correct that when you ship something into a country, it is subject to duty and, in the case of a European Union country like the UK, local VAT. In practice there are no duties on most products (except agricultural commodities and a few other exceptions) shipped between OECD countries these days thanks to the many rounds of trade liberalization. But VAT is chargeable when an item enters an EU country from outside the EU; in the UK that would be 17.5% of the declared value. Having said all that, most countries have a limit below which they do not bother. When I lived in Belgium, and I received a package with a declared value of less than around $50, there was nothing to pay. But...what you have discovered is that one should NEVER use FedEx to ship things. I suspect that most of the bill they sent you is their own fee for clearing customs for you. They will charge you this fee even when no duty is to be paid. It is a total rip-off. I once bought something in the U.S. for $80 and had it shipped to Belgium; the Belgian VAT amounted to around $20 but FedEx charged me over $60, the remainder being the fee for their "service". I had no choice but to pay it, but made a mental note to never again use FedEx except for documents and other things with no commercial value. Next time you ship film in this manner, always use the Post Office. A simple air mail package to the UK will cost much less than FedEx's shipping charges, and more importantly, there will no outrageous customs clearance fees. Or if the time is really of the essence, use Express Mail--it will still save your from the FedEx scam. Or better yet, just take the film with you, or buy it in London--no problem finding 120 film there, and that way it will only be scanned once, on your way ack. As long as you carry the film in your cabin baggage, it will not be damaged by the x-rays despite various urban legends to the contrary. It is only *checked* baggage that gets zapped with film-damaging scanners. Nathan "Kevin D. Ramsey" wrote: > Hello All: > I took my 6008 to London this summer and, based on the recommendations here > and on various Web sites, decided to minimize the risk that my film would > be x-rayed and shipped it in lead bags to and from my home in the U.S. and > my hotel in London. Last week I received an invoice from Fedex for the > taxes and tariffs for sending the film to the U.K. When I called and > pleaded "personal use" I was told "All items entering the U.K. are taxable, > regardless of use." > Anybody heard of this before? I can't believe this is true. If so, > shouldn't I be paying tax on my camera, clothes, and luggage as well (he > said, only somewhat joking). Any ideas on how to fight this? They're asking > for 50% of the value of the film. The collection agency started calling > yesterday, so I know time is running out before I have to acquiesce and pay > them their eighty dollars. > > Any advice would be most appreciated! > Thanks. > Kevin -- Nathan Wajsman Herrliberg (ZH), Switzerland e-mail: wajsman@webshuttle.ch

From rollei mailing list: Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 From: Bob Shell bob@bobshell.com Subject: Re: [Rollei] Vacation Film Is Taxable? Kevin D. Ramsey at kevin.ramsey@verizon.net wrote: > Anybody heard of this before? I can't believe this is true. If so, > shouldn't I be paying tax on my camera, clothes, and luggage as well (he > said, only somewhat joking). Any ideas on how to fight this? They're asking > for 50% of the value of the film. The collection agency started calling > yesterday, so I know time is running out before I have to acquiesce and pay > them their eighty dollars. It's all in the paperwork. When sending film to yourself like this, something I have done often in the past, you must find out the way to do the declaration and invoice for the country you are shipping to. Unless it has changed, for the UK you have to declare the film as a "temporary export" and use the phrase "will not be entered into the commerce of the UK" on the invoice and customs declaration. I don't think you have much hope of fighting it after the fact if the paperwork wasn't done right in advance. Bob

from rollei mailing list: Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 From: Siu Fai siufai@dds.nl Subject: RE: [Rollei] Vacation Film Is Taxable? Here in NL, USPS shipment used to be the prefered method of sending things from the US. But now air shipments are handles by the "Nederlandse Paket Dienst" and not TPG (i.e. regular mail service). The NPD charge about 15 euro for custom clearance. Anotherthing is that if you're not at home at the time of delivery you can have it deliverd onces again, or you can pick it up at their office. For me, this means I need take a day off and stay at home, or go to Rotterdam to pick up the things (I live in The Hague). If you don't reply within five (!) days, the parcel will be returned to the sender. I had to deal with FedEX once and the fee for clearing custom was about 7 euro, and I was lucky to be at home at the moment they delivered the parcel. Siu Fai

From: asfl@freemail.com.au (Thom) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Anybody buy gear in Asia? Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 "Frank Bull" YamBull@skynet.be wrote: >Singapore... been there last week and saw a lot of good camera deals out >there. From the airport, take a taxi to Orchard road (20 min. drive), lots >of good shops over there. Nearly bought a Canon EOS 1n but my wife wouldn't >let me buy one... > >Frank I looked over the replies and have to say this. When you shop overseas your buying two things, local currency and the camera. Here in Australia film is much cheaper and cameras 10-20% more than the USA. Part of that is the greed of the few local importers but if your buying here the rate of exchange now is better than most places. This is why the Kiev cameras in 120 (K-88 and K-60) and the 35mm's with NIKON mounts are so cheap, the currency is dirt cheap. In the late 60's I bought Mamiya C stuff and then Super-23 stuff at very low prices, like US$35 for the C-33 lenses. Part of that was local US greed but a very big part was the fact the Yen and the HK Dollar were very cheap, like 1/3 to 1/4 what it is now. BUT these cameras were very expensive to the people living in Japan and HK at the time because they took a quite large proportion of their take home pay. Before you go hunting for gear get a hold of what you have to pay for the local currencies first or deal with companies that deal in USD's THOM

From hasselblad mailing list: Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 From: Jim Brick jbrick@elesys.net To: hasselblad@kelvin.net, hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: [HUG] SWC shutter jam The Hasselblad USA folks are really great. For the record, their "official" policy is that if you buy a camera from an authorized dealer, while in another country, they will honor the international warranty. If you live in the US and mail order a camera from a foreign dealer, they won't honor the warranty and will ship it on to the seller for repair. There obviously are great holes in this scenario. So you simply say that while visiting relatives in England, you bought the camera. I seriously doubt if Hasselblad will Hassel (no pun intended!) you for proof of where you were at any given time. Just be nice to them and they will be nice to you. Your camera is new so don't do any self repair that will void the warranty. Jim Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: >Establish a relationship with Hasselblad USA and give them the chance to >help you out. They seem to be very good folks. > >I've only had a couple of interactions with them, but in the two cases I >contacted them about my 903SWC or 500C/M (both obtained used) they were >very helpful and sent me warranty freebies to take care of my >difficulties. They may well honor the international Hasselblad warranty, I >don't know. > >Godfrey ...

From: bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Date: 28 Oct 2002 Subject: Re: Purchasing from overseas Dave, I bought the other way, ie, ordered a Mamiya medium format lens from Robert White in the UK, shipped to the US. Because of the incredible markup by Mamiya USA and the lack of grey market lenses it was about $1,000 cheaper than from B&H;, for example. The shipping was higher by about $30 and later my stupid credit card company added a 1.5% charge for currency conversion, and later still customs got me for about 3.5% but I still saved a lot. So make sure you know what the VAT will be, I think it's a lot higher coming in to England. As for warranty, I'll have to send it back to England to get that done, but I figured it was a small risk on a lens. I'd be more leery about doing it on a body or something more fragile like that. Bottom line, it will likely cost you a bit more than you think right now and you won't have a UK warranty (if it's done like here in the USA), but if you can save enough it's worth it. BTW, not sure how well-regarded hotbuyselectronics.com is, probably worth checking out on one of the seller ratings sites. B&H; (a US company with a fine reputation) has these lenses for about $399 each, so make sure the shipping is not too outrageous and if hotbuys has a good reputation then it's a smoking deal. But if they are a troublesome outfit and you have to return the merchandise from overseas it will be a pain. Bill >From: dave-farmer@bigfoot.com (Dave Farmer) >Anyone have experience of buying stuff from overseas? > >I'm in the UK and am after a Tamron 24-135 (o330) and a Sigma 15mm >fisheye (o382). Over here that's over UKP700 for the two - equivalent >to around US$1150. > >Looking at US websites - for instance www.hotbuyselectronics.com - >these same items are available for $325 and $335 respectively. Total >price $660, not much more than half the UK price! Add some shipping - >say $50 and I'm still making a saving of around 40% - $440 or o275 - >significant in anyone's view I would suggest. > >What are the drawbacks? Do these items come with US-only warranties or >are they covered worldwide by their manufacturers? Are there any >problems with customs? > >What do you say - have you taken this route and if so, would you >recommend it? > >Cheers, > >Dave.

From: eric phillips ericp@hn.ozemail.com.au Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Purchasing from overseas Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 dave-farmer@bigfoot.com (Dave Farmer) wrote: >Hi, > >Anyone have experience of buying stuff from overseas? > >I'm in the UK and am after a Tamron 24-135 (o330) and a Sigma 15mm >fisheye (o382). Over here that's over UKP700 for the two - equivalent >to around US$1150. > >Looking at US websites - for instance www.hotbuyselectronics.com - >these same items are available for $325 and $335 respectively. Total >price $660, not much more than half the UK price! Add some shipping - >say $50 and I'm still making a saving of around 40% - $440 or o275 - >significant in anyone's view I would suggest. > >What are the drawbacks? Do these items come with US-only warranties or >are they covered worldwide by their manufacturers? Are there any >problems with customs? > >What do you say - have you taken this route and if so, would you >recommend it? > >Cheers, I live in Australia where,on average, the prices on cameras and equipment are double those in the U.S. I have bought a D30 and various lens' from the States. Cameta,B & H and Deltainternational are three companies to recommend. First do your sums IE price of article/shipping fees/VAT then decide for yourself whether the savings are worth the risk of the item failing outside of a warrenty. eric phillips

Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 From: Stuart Phillips stuart.phillips@rcn.com To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: [HUG] Thinking about getting a PME45 You can get them new out of Hong Kong on Ebay for about $1000, just to give you a guide. ...

Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 From: gdkenney@bellatlantic.net To: hasselblad@kelvin.net Subject: Re: [HUG] 500cm kit for $1500 or 501cm kit for $2200? If you want a reference point for Hasselblad prices, always check out eBay. Here, for example, is a new, in the box, 501 cm system for $1,980: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item;=1394734247 This vendor happens to be in Hong Kong. There are other vendors who operate out of California and elsewhere, who import from Hong Kong, and have equivalent or lower prices than above. And keep in mind that further negotiation below the asking price is often possible when advertised items don't sell... It is also important to note that these Hasselblad items (for now at least) will be covered by Hasselblad USA for their international warranty. Unlike Nikon and Mamiya, Hasselblad USA accepts grey market items for repairs under international warranty, without any argument. Prices are now lower on eBay than anywhere else in the world, to my knowledge. It is, however, interesting to compare prices in Canada and the UK. Importing Hasselblad items yourself from reputable dealers abroad is always another option, and on certain items you can find great deals. (Robert White in the UK, for example, recently had a one day sale where I picked up a new, new model A-12 back for $300.) In short, it pays to shop around. And unless you don't know what you want and must have the security of dealing with a store where you can talk to people and examine the merchandise, it makes much more sense to buy online. Hope this helps, G.

From: Bael bael@666.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Bronica 135mm f4, What - Where? Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 : RE: Bael bael@666.com : : I'm a USA resident, West Coast, Oregon. Robert White is well recommended. : I'd like to buy from some USA source. There are some US based DEEP : discouters. I don't remember anybody ever recommending a US source. : A sad state of affairs being a USA citizen. : I'll check at Robert White. England may be my only hope and the only : recommended source. Where or What is Catalonia? Dan 8-) Gaudi ? Barcelona ? Pau Casals ?... for info about Catalunya visit: http://www.gencat.net/index_eng.htm bronica have a stupid ? or crazy ? policy of prices... exam.: PE 30mm fisheye price in barcelona -> 4207 eu (total madness) in RW -> 1984 eu in B&H; -> 1391 eu ei bronica people, for what reason this big differencies ???

From: dan.c.quinn@att.net (Dan Quinn) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Subject: Re: Bronica 135mm f4, What - Where? Date: 18 May 2003 "ajacobs2" ajacobs2@tampabay.rr.com wrote > Try Delta International, they treated me as nice as B&H; for half of the cost. > And I have the 40, 75,110 Macro, and the 180 which is an incredible piece > of glass. All PE series and I'll match them to work I did with Hassies........ I e-mailed Delta for a quote. An Australia outfit selling on eBay may be drawing the most blood. They carry new and used. Bronica as well as a lot of others are represented. A new 135mm f4 PS is priced at $621. The PE version should sell for less. I've e-mailed for availability. The seller is, saulgf or search eBay for, bronica 135mm. Dan

From: T. P. tp@noemailthanks.com Newsgroups: alt.photography,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Hoya vs Tiffen Filters Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 "Reefpup" reefpup@adelphia.net wrote: >T.P., >I don't speak German so I had a tough time navigating the site. You don't need to speak German. All the dealers I have purchased from ship either worldwide or throughout Europe, so they have at least a rudimentary knowledge of English. Just do a search on "Heliopan". > Do these >'suppliers' ship to the U.S.? If so, can you suggest some? If you note the eBay item number, you can search for the item on the main eBay USA site. All the bidding instructions will appear in English. If you need to translate a description, try using Alta Vista Translations - it's not a great translator but it is good enough for most simple transactions: http://world.altavista.com/ Not all the sellers will accept credit cards. Many will only accept the standard European electronic money transfer, which cannot be done from the US except at great expense (typically $30-40), so check the ad carefully before bidding. Shipping from Germany to the US costs about 50% more than USPS from the US to Germany. Do ask the seller to deduct German VAT (sales tax) from the eBay bid amount. All European items have to be quoted inclusive of sales tax, or VAT, which is 16% in Germany. This will result in a saving of about 14% on the winning bid. You will bid in Euros, each one of which will cost you about US $1.17 (but rates do vary). >Thanks, You're welcome. I hope this is useful. Best regards, Tony

From: T. P. tp@noemailthanks.com Newsgroups: alt.photography,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Hoya vs Tiffen Filters Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 "Reefpup" reefpup@adelphia.net wrote: >I did look at Heliopan filters (out of Germany, NJ in the US) as well as >several others but I found them to be more out of my budget right now. I pay a lot *less* for Heliopan filters than Hoya. There are several suppliers on German eBay (www.ebay.de) who offer Heliopan filters at very attractive prices.

From: Bob Salomon bobsalomon@mindspring.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format Subject: Re: Heliopan (was: Re: SchnWen Chang eider Apo Symmar L lenses) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 ... Jon, What a dealer stocks is what a dealer wants to stock. If he does not have it in stock they can order from us and have us drop ship it to you. As for "That Gentleman in Germany" This message provides awareness of the USA Trademark Laws applying to Heliopan's trademark registered in the United States. Trademark and Gray Market Warning Notice HP Marketing Corporation, an American-owned company not related to the Heliopan factory in Germany, has registered the Heliopan Trademark with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (PTO), and has recorded these marks with the United States Customs Service for legal import restrictions in accordance with 19 C.F.R. Part 133. Under Section 526 (a) of the US Tariff Act of 1930, the importation of any foreign-origin merchandise bearing the Heliopan trademark, without the written consent of HP Marketing Corporation, is unlawful and prohibited. Unauthorized importations are subject to possible seizure and forfeiture by the United States Customs Service. HP Marketing Corporation is actively working with Customs to enforce these trademarks aggressively. HP Marketing Corporation will also pursue all of its available remedies for injunctive relief and damages against any companies or persons who import, distribute, sell or otherwise deal in gray market merchandise bearing these trademarks. The items you import are subject to confiscation by US Customs and we will make sure they are aware of direct shipments by this dealer. We will also let the factory know that he is bypassing US Customs and aiding you in avoiding the letter of the law. -- HP Marketing Corp.

From: fotoralf@gmx.de (Ralf R. Radermacher) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Who makes Jessops Filters? Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 T. P. tp@noemailthanks.com wrote: > There are *several* German suppliers of B&W; filters who undercut Hoya > HMC filter prices by a *huge* margin. ...and there's a few more selling Heliopan filters at most attractive prices. Just like those from B+W, Heliopan filters are made of Schott glass. They have a very interesting 'slim-line' filter series with very thin mounting rings allowing their use on wide angle and extreme wide angle lenses. Their complete catalogue is online under: http://www.heliopan.de I've bought a few Heliopan filters from a German outfit called 'team-foto' on ebay and I've been quite happy with their prices and service. The usual disclaimers apply. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - K"ln/Cologne, Germany private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de

From: "JanR" jrosseel@toohottomailto.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Who makes Jessops Filters? Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 If you can read German, you might want to try www.fotomayr.de/fofilter. They carry the full Heliopan line, take credit cards, and are cheaper than www.team-foto.de. And I find their web site easier to navigate as well... JanR

From: "Simon Watkins" siwatkins@iee.org Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Who makes Jessops Filters? Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 "T. P." tp@noemailthanks.com wrote > There are *several* German suppliers of B&W; filters who undercut Hoya > HMC filter prices by a *huge* margin. > > If you knew the importer's and dealer's mark-up on Hoya filters you > would know precisely why. Like Sigma lenses, Hoya filters are a *huge > opportunity* for dealers, which is why so many dealers stock them. Indeed, hence why I voted with my feet/wallet and bought from Germany :) Incidentally, I paid for the following: 77mm B+W Circular-Pol KAESEMANN Slim NEW for $113 (He uses US $ pricing through PayPal) And this set: US $238 1 x B+W UV MRC 58mm 1 x B+W UV MRC 67mm 3 x B+W UV MRC 77mm A quick price check at Jacobs online, shows that the UV set would cost over UKP o275. I say over, because Jacobs don't have the more expensive MRC filters in all sizes, thus could only calculated based on the slightly cheaper versions. The Kaesemann polarizer at Jacobs in 82mm (no 72mm listed) runs to UKP o217 at Jacobs. The guy I bought off is here: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid;=kafriwi-filter-store&include;=0&since;=-1&sort;=3&rows;=25 User ID: kafriwi-filter-store in case the above link wraps. Nice chap, speaks good English, accepts PayPal unlike some of the other German Ebayers who want expensive bank transfers etc. Hope that's useful to someone. Simon

From: fotoralf@gmx.de (Ralf R. Radermacher) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Re: Who makes Jessops Filters? Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 Tim Giles tgiles@spam.com wrote: > Could you post the names of some of these suppliers? Dunno about B+W but Heliopan filters are made from the same Schott glass. Look on ebay for 'team-foto'. They're constantly offering Heliopan filters and they do sell abroad. I've bought from them on serveral occasions and have been quite happy with their prices and service. The usual disclaimers apply. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - K"ln/Cologne, Germany private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de

[Ed. note: a chance to save over 50% buying overseas?...] From lenses mailing list: From: Bertram Schacherer [bschach@aol.com] Sent: Mon 7/7/2003 To: Lenses@topica.com Subject: RE: [LENSES] Price in Germany, was Second Hand 35/1.2! Roger, I get a feeling of having missed something, happens very often now :-) I remember that someone was talking about a price of US$ 970,- in Japan. The lens is offered now also in Germany for 1800,- Euros, which is about the double price. Do I remember correctly this japanese price? Best, Bertram

From: Peter Evans [peter@despammed.com] Sent: Mon 7/7/2003 To: Lenses@topica.com Subject: Re: [LENSES] Price in Germany, was Second Hand 35/1.2! From lenses mailing list: Hello list. Yes, in Japan the CV 35/1.2 is a lot closer to 970 USD than to 1800 EUR. And I'd imagine that the price will sink slightly, once the initial enthusiasm wears off. (I don't mean to denigrate the lens in any way; this is simply the normal process.)

From: robertostepic@hotmail.com (Anne) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm Subject: Buy cameras from Asian Manufacturers and sell them for double price. Date: 29 Dec 2003 At this web page you'll find updated list of Asian Manufacturers that sells brand new cameras for cheap. http://members.lycos.co.uk/ebooks4less/asian_manufacturers_list.htm

From: Bob Salomon bob_salomon@mindspring.com Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format Subject: Re: Postive News on HP Marketing Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 "Mark A" ma@switchboard.net wrote: > This makes gray market > items (or black market as Bob like to call them) No you are putting words into my mouth that I never have said. Gray market involves merchandise, purchased for RESALE, not personal consumption, by a company who retails - or sells them to retailers, in the US where the Trademark can not be registered with Customs due to the local distributor being a subsidiary of the foreign factory. Black market occurs when the distributor in the US OWNS THE TRADEMARK and has registered it with Customs and is NOT A SUBSIDIARY of the foreign factory. In our case we were assigned the ownership of the Trademark by Heliopan and the Trademark is properly recorded within the Intellectual Property Rights Branch. Registration Number 1,650, 631 and Customs Record No. TMK 01-00501 and has been added to Customs' Intellectual Property Rights computer module for access by Customs Officers at all ports of entry on Dec. 26, 2001. --

From: "Mark A" ma@switchboard.net Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.large-format Subject: Re: Postive News on HP Marketing Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 "Gregory W. Blank" Whowill-hearawho@Hortons.net wrote > > Well, what can you expect when manufacturers are denied a choice of partner, > > but are forced to accept to work with whoever has highjacked their name? > Not sure how that happens as my understanding is that these are partnerships. A partnership is a specific type of business formation in the US, such as would be used in a law firm. The relationship between HP Marketing and the manufacturer is not a US partnership. I don't know about German law. In order for HP Marketing to maintain their exclusive copyright on the trademark in the US, the marketing company and foreign company (manufacturer) must be separate companies and not owned by each. That is why it is legal to sell gray market goods from Canon, Nikon, etc, since the CanonUSA and NikonUSA are owned by the Japanese manufacturer. Despite what Bob wants you to believe, an individual who buys filters for personal use in non-commercial quantities (such as one filter of each kind) can import them without any problems from US Customs. This could be done by bringing the item back to the US from a trip abroad, or by purchasing it from a foreign retailer like Robert White in the UK. In the case of bringing it back with you on a trip overseas, there is an $800 duty exemption (just recently raised from $400). In the case of a purchase from overseas, a duty fee would be charged at the port of entry, probably about 2%-6% depending on the item.

From: rander3127@rogers.com (Richard) Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur Subject: Group buys direct from China Date: 1 Apr 2004 I've seen pricing on some products direct from China and before the middlemen get them here. Example; Celestron Ultima style eyepiece, no markings, $21.50/ea. in 100 piece lots. I've also received emails from Chinese optical firms offering products at similar prices. I'm wondering that in most other hobbies people often group together to secure better pricing on products why this doesn't happen in amateur astronomy? Would it be possible to say buy 50 5" f8 achromats on G5 type mounts for around $300/ea? Has anyone else seen that various telescopes, eyepieces are available in "generic" form? -Rich

From: bhilton665@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Date: 23 Jun 2004 Subject: Re: RB67 for Mamiya 7/7II >From: "Matt Clara" critics@large.com >do you know of any online camera stores based in Japan with the >great Mamiya prices of which you speak? Bob Monaghan's excellent MF site has a lengthy page on buying grey market from the various Asian dealers and countries. Dealing with Robert White in England worked well for me too. The site's a bit old (May 2000) but still a great resource. http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.html I got knicked a few quid for extra shipping (I think it was $50 instead of the $20 from B&H;), a few percent from my credit card company for doing the currency exchange, and quite a few bucks from Customs for duty charges (this showed up later on my Fed Ex bill since I have an account with them, at first I thought I had slipped thru the net :) but it was still worth it on an expensive lens because Mamiya USA has such an exhorbitant mark-up and has blocked commercial grey market imports. Just factor in these likely extra charges when comparing the base prices. Bill
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Trademark Information for Travelers - U.S. Customs Pub. #508 (5/90)
Warning: Trademark names highlighted in black may only be imported under Customs trademark Exemptions - See paragraphs 3 and 4 from booklet text below (See Caution) nr = no restriction on importation for personal use - (See Caution)
Binolux Bogen Bronica Mamiya Mamiya C Mamiya RB-67 Mamiya Sekor Metz Metz in Design Minolta Minox Mitakon Monolux Sakar Underground Camera Inc	Arca-Swiss (nr) AO (nr) Arri (nr) Arriflex (nr) B & L (nr) FL-B (up to 12 filters) FL-D (up to 12 filters) Fotocoat (nr) Fuji (nr) Fujibromide (nr) Fujica (nr) Fujichrome (nr) Fujicolor (nr) Fuji Film (nr) Fujilith (nr) Fujinon (nr) Fuji Single 8 (nr) Hasselblad (nr) Kiron (nr) Konica (nr) Leica (nr) Leitz (nr)	Luxottica (nr) Maxxum (nr) Minicam (nr) Nikkor (nr) Nikon (nr) Olympus (nr) Olympus Quickmatic (nr) Osawa & Logo (nr) Pentax (nr) Schneider-Kreuznach (nr) Seiko (nr) Series (nr) Steroflex (nr) Sunpack (nr) Takumar (nr) Tasco (nr) UFO (nr) Unitron (nr) Vivitar (nr) Vivitar Series (nr) Vuarnet (nr)